Pick one for your DD

>>17654606
600 hp because fast is more better

>>17654606
so basically Gasoline vs Diesel?
I think I'll choose gasoline

I already daily engine B so I'll give A a shot

>>17654606
A

>>17654606
HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

So you are implying that Motor A has a RPM of 10500 and the right one only a RPM of 2600?

>>17654606
Un-ironically as much RPM as possible so it's as dirty and lumpy and gutless down low as possible for that awesome sound.

Maybe I'd get bored of it eventually but I can't imagine why.

>>17654606
B i dd a truck

A

Gearing handles conversion of power/rpm to torque

>>17654621
>only has a revolutions per minute

do you know how stupid that sounds? are you referring to where peak power is made or the redline?

>>17654629
>daily driver
>i want to rev the shit out of my car to move anywhere

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>why not both

>>17654742
do you know that torque can always be expressed as a function of rpm?
And generally speaking is more or less flat from 2k to 5k rpm?
and that a motor with high power but low torque thus generally has to have high rpm, while a motor with low power but high torque has a low max rpm?
do you even know what torque is and what power is?

>>17654606
>>17654621
I love much power and I love high rpm motors, so I would take the engine A, wich seems to be something like a forced induction synergy-V-8.

>>17654742
peak hp is always achieved at peak rpm.
at peak rpm torque is around 80% of peak torque.
In >>17654621 example both rpms should be 25% higher and then you've taken into account that peak torque is not achieved at peak rpm.

>>17654805
A is more like an oversized motorcycle engine or a rotary. Whilst B is a bus or small(ish) truck engine.

>>17654814
>oversized motorcycle engine
Wich is what I meant with the synergy V-8, wich is 2 Hayabusa engine on a single crankshaft.

>>17654814
> B is a bus or small(ish) truck engine
B has 813 Nm of torque
a naturaly aspirted gas engine has about 100 Nm/L
813 Nm / 100 Nm/L = 8,13L
B has more than 8L of displacement, wich is by no means small.

>>17654814
>>17654836
Snek had up to 760 Nm

>>17654606
A, because gearing exists. Also, why would I want a nice ITB V8 that's functionally a diesel?

>>17654792
>do you know that torque can always be expressed as a function of rpm?
Yes, but torque and power aren't linear.
>And generally speaking is more or less flat from 2k to 5k rpm?
Only if the engine is specifically designed for that. Most aren't.

>>17654808
>peak hp is always achieved at peak rpm.
Just look at the average dyno graph, and you'll see that this isn't true.
>at peak rpm torque is around 80% of peak torque.
No. Torque can taper off much quicker and is determined by a myriad of other factors. Again, go read a dyno graph.

>>17654859
you are retarded.
pic related. first page of googling dyno. 100% of my statements is true.
" Yes, but torque and power aren't linear."
Throughout most of the rpm range torque is constant.
Therefore power increases linear. (until torque starts to reduce. then it's approximately linear)
>Only if the engine is specifically designed for that. Most aren't.
most are. it's a specific design criterium for motors used in cars. only racecars, which stay in high rpms are designed for maximum power (and thus high torque at high rpms).

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>>17654899
I'm retarded as well.
Here's pic related.

>>17654606
A because >>17654736

>>17654808
>peak hp is always achieved at peak rpm.
What?

>>17654836
Only idiots fit anything other than diesel to buses and trucks. So you are looking at around a 4L TDI.

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>>17654906
Nice cherrypicking there. 0% of your statements are true when you stop looking at a dyno graph of an engine that has been choked by a relatively undersized turbo. The thread it's posted in is about moving to a bigger turbo for exactly that reason.

>Throughout most of the rpm range torque is constant.
It isn't even properly linear in your picture, that's roughly a 5% deviation. Hell, even if it was linear between 3.5 and 5K, I wouldn't say that 1500 RPM is ''most of the rpm range'' if the engine can rev out to beyond 6500. That's a quarter of the rpm range at most.

Now, let's take a look at another dyno graph froma Subaru. Torque tapers down from peak torque by about 10%, untill you're at peak power, where it start dropping off rapidly. Your claim that ''torque is constant in a large portion of the rpm range'' is false here.
Power drops, too, from 186 at peak power to just below 150hp at peak RPM. Your claim that ''peak hp is always achieved at peak RPM'' is false here too.
As power drops towards peak RPM, so does torque. At peak RPM, it makes just under 120N/184=65% of peak torque. Your statement that ''at peak rpm torque is around 80% of peak torque'' is not true.

You simply cherrypicked a false example where the dyno measurement was stopped at peak power. If that measurement had rolled along to 7K as in pic related, it would look pretty similar.

>>17654952
>4L TDI.
Even the 4,2L Tdi had "only" 650 Nm

File: dyno_graph_Audi_A3_1_4_TFSI_122pk_CMBA_CPVA_.jpg (92KB, 795x591px) Image search: [Google]

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>>17654957
>>17654906
Here's another dyno graph from a 1.4 TFSI.
>consistent torque
NOPE
>no power drop from peak power to redline
NOPE
>torque at redline = 80% of peak torque
NOPE

>>17654957
i don't think i can help you any further.
you clearly have no grasp on how torque is created in an engine and how power comes from it. You are trying to find dyno's that prove your idea of power and torque. which with a million different engines and graphs is not that hard.
good luck finding a ton more graphs proving you right and me wrong.

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>>17655013
Nice ad homs there mate, sure proved your point. Burden of proof is on you once you've made a statement. I've made mine, and gave plenty of proof. You just gave one cherrypicked example.

As an engine designer, I'd like to ask you three things that are fundemental to understanding why your three claims are wrong:
How is torque supposed to be constant? Is airflow constant, even at different RPM?
How is peak RPM determined? Would redetermining peak RPM change you claim of similarity between peak HP and peak RPM?
How can airflow always be a specific percentage of peak torque at peak RPM, regardless of the definition of said peak RPM?

Pic related, it's your current position.

>>17655034
>>17655013
What are those spergwars here, holy shit.

>>17655043
At least it's not a Corvette vs. GT-R thread.

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>>17655051

>>17655043 >spergwars.
>>17655034
yeah, i'm budding out.
Maybe you're right. I know for sure my knowledge is limited. Maybe you're an 'engine designer' and maybe your knowledge supersedes mine by far.
kind regards. good luck.

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>>17654952
>Only idiots fit anything other than diesel to buses and trucks
Okay.

>>17655072
>Only idiots fit anything other than diesel to buses and trucks
is not the same as:
>Only idiots fit anything other than buses and trucks with diesel

>>17655072
>too poor to buy a V12

>>17655076
Yeah I noticed that now. Still need my coffee

>>17655084
Only rich idiots buy the outdated V12 over the modern V8

>>17654808
>peak hp is always achieved at peak rpm.

LOL

>>17655085
>being this poor
Enjoy your terrible NVH.

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>>17655089
You can whisper a conversation at highway speeds in it, it's a modern car not something from the 80s

All that low end torque really gets the pig fat moving in traffic as well

>>17654987
A8 (L) 4.2 TDI clean diesel quattro (385PS) 2013– 4,134 cc (252.3 cu in) V8 turbo 385 PS (283 kW; 380 bhp)@3750, 850 N·m (627 lb·ft)@2000–2750

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>>17654606
C.

>>17655217
>pushrods

>>17655217
Nigger mobile...on the the same field as Lamborghini

Torque for the low end.

A
vrim vrim vrim

>>17654606
A.

>>17655303
Oil-nigger mobiles really, blacks can't afford them. Arabs buy all the cars that rapper have in their videos.

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(B) of course, power all day for pulling trailers. (A) would be a horrid tow vehicle and a horrid car all around, you'd have to rev it to the moon the entire time.

>>17655303
no one cares. I want that torque.

>>17654606
>Overhead cams
How about neither?

>>17656595
dumb pushcuck

>>17656601
At least my peak torque isn't at fucking 9001rpm

>>17654606
gimme the 10.5krpm v8 senpai

>>17655034
Not him, but I'll give it a shot.

>>17655034
>How is torque supposed to be constant? Is airflow constant, even at different RPM?

Constant flow rate, usually from choked flow or air pump controller. Airflow generally depends on mean piston speed, until it is choked.

>How is peak RPM determined? Would redetermining peak RPM change you claim of similarity between peak HP and peak RPM?

Peak rpm is usually determined by resonance of the valve springs or dangerous piston speeds. Peak HP is met when frictional losses begin to overcome the engines own power.

>How can airflow always be a specific percentage of peak torque at peak RPM, regardless of the definition of said peak RPM?

This statement is confusing. Phrasing.

>>17654606
Torkz are literally a meme.

>>17657137
Revs are literally a meme.

>>17654747
I already drive a Honda. The driving style would be the same, just with 400 extra horsepower and 150 extra torque. On the other hand, I can't imagine an engine that dies as soon as you begin revving it to be much fun. Would probably bore me into driving like a grandma desu.

>>17656612
>revlet

>>17654606
The 600 torks engine is more powerful.

Depends what I'm driving. It it's a 3000lb (or less) sports car, 600hp. But if it were my DD, it would probably be a 5000lb SUV or truck so 300HP.

You can always convert power into torque.

You cannot magically make more power out of torque.

>>17654606
B

I'm a lazy driver, give me torque out of the arse, can't be bothered to floor it all the time.

>>17654747
No I'm talking about the awesome choppy, lumpy, rough sound down low. I wouldn't need to rev it during daily driving because traffic doesn't move that fast.
>finally get a break in traffic
>finally hit powerband
>BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
>back to normal driving again
The release would be so satisfying.

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>>17654952
>Only idiots fit anything other than diesel to buses and trucks.

A lot of city trucks, Dump trucks and buses are going to natural gas engines. DEF/DPf bullshit and high diesel prices are starting to slowly kill off the Diesel.

>>17657162
cant make torque without revving, icecuck

>>17657184
> has less horsePOWER
> is more powerful

are you trying to be retarded?
it's more forceful (torque is a unit of force), but less powerful


>>17657208
actually that's not true. think about why a car has underdrive and overdrive gears

>>17654606
Torque is way more important than horsepower.
Without torque horsepower doesn't even exist.

>>17658706
that doesn't mean more torque is better autist

>>17658706
mental midget

think about what you're saying and whether it makes sense before you say it

>>17654606
A because i know how to produce my own torque

B
Torque for towing if needed.

B, because I want to climb vertical walls at idle.

>>17658709
>prezo gave me a complex
Lol

>>17658734
Horsepower is literally a measurement of torque delivery over time. The equation cannot exist without torque. It's more important than horsepower.

I actually have engine b waaaaay more fun desu

>>17659269
>Horsepower is literally a measurement of torque delivery over time
and if you werent a brainlet youd realize why this is what matters
or would you rather a car that doesnt move?

A

B style engines are boring

I choose B because efficiency

Also because I like how high torque motors feel during driving as opposed to high rev motors
>t. diesel enthusiast

>>17659305
torque is literally what moves the car, retard.

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>>17659269
put your trip back on Prezo boy

>>17659333
>he is literally this retarded
top roflmao

a tesla makes 442lb-ft at zero rpm, it isnt moving anywhere is it nigger

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>>17659360
>0-60 in 2.2 isn't moving anywhere

someone can't count


(its you)

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>Prez/poo/ is actually so ashamed of himself he is actually posting without his trip again

lol

>>17659388
see what happens when you dont have to change gears
single gear transmissions are the future

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>>17659400
>>17659353

PLEASE STOP!!!

>>17659415
I agree. That image really illustrates the superiority of torque over horsepower.

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>>17659434
just like this one illustrates the superiority of the GTR

>>17656853
>Constant flow rate
Not true, as you can see by various dyno graphs.
>Choked flow
Even choked flow can increase in velocity as piston speed increases.

If the definition of peak RPM and peak HP differ from each other, how can >>17654808 be true?
>peak hp is always achieved at peak rpm.
Also, the definition of peak RPM is usually set by the manufacturer. Valve float and excessive piston speed are already too high for them, they want to protect an engine (quite conservatively) so it survives the warranty period.

Also stated in >>17654808
>at peak rpm torque is around 80% of peak torque.
If we pick an arbitrary definition of ''peak RPM'' where this statement is true, can we also pick a point where this isn't true? In fact, there's usually only one value for it where the statement is true, and a plethora of other values where it isn't. Therefore, the statement isn't true.
Remember, peak RPM isn't determined by the physical limit of the engine. It's determined by the manufacturer.

>That much power and torque in a miata
Hot fuckin damn, I'll go B thanks.

>>17654808
>the madman bounces off redline before shifting

>>17659269
don't want to be '/that guy/' but...
horsepower is a measurement of energy over time.
torque is a measurement of (rotating) force.
force times distance equals an amount of energy. (like torque times a certain amount of rotations).
now remember: energy over time is power (measured in hp).
thus (force times distance) over time is power.
like: (torque times rotations) over minutes is horsepower. This can be rewritten as torque times rotations per minute equals horsepower.
(mind you, i let out conversion constants like 1 minute is 60 seconds [both units of time]. to calculate the exact number you'd have to do a proper calculation in the correct units)

>>17654606
torque is what gets things moving
perfect for vehicles that actually have practical seating/cargo space

>>17661090
...you don't know what choked flow is, do you?

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>>17654772

Depends how heavy the car is.
I wouldn't drive a pigfat autotragic so A in a light manual car would be much more fun and appropriate to daily.

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>>17654808

>>17654606
A

My commute doesn't involve towing a trailer so I'll take the extra HP every time.