>fwd Cars ruined by a drive train I'll start

>>17490782
with a landbarge that fucking huge, whats the benefit of rwd exactly?

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>>17490782

>>17490782
Fact: if it's fwd it's not high end

>>17490796
They are making an AWD Version.

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>>17490786
not having understeer obviously
even the AWD version is ruined by it, the engine is ahead of the front axle

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>>17490814
this guy gets it
Audi isn't luxury, it's barely premium. Except for the R8.

>>17490782
Ahem, the poor man's Mercedes

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>>17490814
>Fact: if it's fwd it's not high end

Umm try again sweetie

>>17490843
>that
>high end
Pick one.
>hatchback
>high end

>>17490843
A-klasse is literally entry level Mercedes for moms

>>17490843
looks like a Versa lol

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>could have been an awesome rally monster if only they gave it AWD and a better engine

>>17490874
pick literally any earlier gen celica
that one looks like shit anyway

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>>17490851
>hatchback
>high end
*cough*

>>17490843
>that body to wheel size ratio

>>17490872
And they used it as a basis for a Infiniti, Nissan's premium brand kek

>>17490819
honestly, even though it cant afford it, I cant wait for it.

>>17490874
I know its FWD and rice but i STILL love the way it looks.

>>17490882
That poor clown, I hope he doesn't get a cold foot now that someone stole his shoe.

>>17490878
You take that back! All Celicas are beautiful, even the 7th gen

>>17490851
I was just kidding honestly, fwd cars are either subpar and/or mommy cars

>>17490843
This looks shooped.

>>17490882
>not made in Germany
>nicknamed clown shoe
>MSRP almost 20k less than that year's corvette
Stop defending poor people "nice cars"

3000GT and Dodge stealth off the top of my head. They had mechanical problems out the ass and the FWD made the issues not worth dealing with.

>>17490874
the gt-fours were never made for that model, and I wish they were. besides, us burgers never got the last model either.

also, apparently the last gen celicas weren't detuned in yurop and japan. honestly its kind of a let down. probably why they stopped making them.

>>17490956
Weren't they AWD too?

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>>17490782

>A8
>muh fwd problem

Meanwhile its S8 is stupidly fast, thanks to its sophisticated AWD system.

Zero to 60 mph:
S8: 3.3 sec
CTS-V: 3.6

7 years old large sedan beats new CTS-V. We will see what the next gen S8 can do.

>>17490927
lol it's all good

>>17490913
kek

>>17490921
sorry man, its just too ricey for me

>>17490961
The VR4's were, not sure if the Stealth had an AWD option.

>>17490962
Meanwhile it can't turn

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>fwd
>3,800 lbs
>garbage tranny

Mitsu had a great engine and great styling but jewed us all out by not making it AWD like the GSX and building it off a fucking SUV platform

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>>17490956
DELET THIS

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>>17490940
>>not made in Germany

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>>17491042

>many American cars are not made in USA

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>>17491042
Reminder that Trump has German blood (Drumpf)

>>17491056
>""""""""American cars""""""""

>>17491019

I read it is about same as CTS-V, thanks to its all-wheel steering system.

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>>17490820

>rwd means no understeer

>>17490962

But CTS-V is cheaper than S8.

>>17490820
>long wheel base
>heavy weight
rwd doesn't magically cure understeer

>>17491056
If they aren't they are usually made in Canada which is also fine. i mean i don't care that the Fiesta is made in Mexico its just a shitbox. not like its a pricy sports car like the Z3M.
All Focus STs sold here are built here though.

>>17491069
It's not just the drivetrain, it's the weight distribution. Audi's is dogshit.
Of course RWD understeering cars exist, like the Silvia S13.

>>17491011
The Stealth had the R/T Twin Turbo which was exactly the same as the VR4.

>>17491073
That's true, but FWD or FWD-based AWD only worsens it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVDKztQ-n1U

>>17490956

Only in the us were the non vr4's fwd, japan and everywhere else got awd na's.

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>>17490814

Say that again, nigger

>the best ride for the money

>>17490874
>looks fast
At least they were honest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a2lcFMqHxw

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>>17490782
Here's a classic for you.

The Celica should've been at least RWD. Jesus christ this car has a fantastic weight balance... for an AWD. In FWD, not so much.

>>17490819
>AWD Civic Type-R
Sounds CRAZY MAN.

Seriously I've been waiting for this for years now. It'll easily beat all the ferds

>>17490823
>fwd V8
how does it not torque steer like a bastard?

>>17491477
torque steer isn't the result of its layout. Its the result of its transmission and lack of grip.

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>>17490782
>eyy a Toni, let's a make a beautifull car with a Ferrari v8, and get a this. Let's make it fwd
Wtf were those pasta eaters thinking?

>>17491517
Why does it look so fucking much like a Volvo 850?

>>17491517
>that
>beautiful

>>17491540
Huh, never noticed that before

>>17490819
They aren't fucking making an AWD version. The reason the Type R outperforms and outhandles all its competition is because it's 300 lbs lighter. Putting AWD in it would just make it the exact fucking same as everything else and make it slower. Actually thinking AWD is any better than FWD in dry conditions means you know nothing about driving. On the track, AWD is just pigfat and parasitic drivetrain loss.

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>>17491550
You dare to question our lord and savior Giorgetto Giugiaro?

>>17491555
Me neither, but that pic made me think of the 850, the whole silhouette, even the door handles remind me of it (although the headlights and the front are the worst offenders). I googled to see if anyone else had thought of it but found nothing, however I found out that it's actually the 850 that looks like the Thema, as the Thema predates it.

>>17491477
I'm guessing the V8 is mounted transversely if it's FWD.

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>>17491562
>implying he isn't just a saint
Our lord and savior is Ramaciotti, get with the program

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-audi-a8l-30t-quattro-test-review
>Like all Audi sedans, it’s basically a front-drive design, with a pronounced forward weight bias that ultimately adds up to terminal understeer.
AHAHAHA NOT EVEN THE AWD CONFIGURATION CAN SAVE IT. AUDI FANGIRLS BTFO

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>>17491583
He's not my lord and savior

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>>17491625
What do you mean?

>>17490782
I saw an S8 of that generation yesterday and it didn't look all that ruined desu. The brakes on that thing are fucking gigantic, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. Probably cost $5k per disk as well.

>>17491477
V8 comes with quattro, thats how its always been

>>17491828
The first gen came in both V6 and V8 for the FWD version

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>make premium hatchback with engines all at leat 2.0
>biggest engine is a 2.8 V6, most powerful is a 205hp turbo 2.5 V6
>fwd
what a fucking mistake
the handling is fucking great but in RWD it'd be a godmachine.

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>>17490782
>>17490814
>>17490823
Only FWD version is the hybrid, every spec that could possibly benefit in any single way from having Quattro has it.

>>17490820
>A8 being pushed to the point where the owner could tell the difference between Quattro and FWD
I don't think you know who buys an A8 and how it's driven. Here's a tip: It's not dagumi or whatever that idol of yours is called. Businessmen buy the A8 for their 1 hour commute in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Angsty teens who think that the only good cars out there are RWD and under $5k (read: most of /o/) aren't the target demographic.

>>17491896
>hatchback
that's a liftback son

>>17491963
>damage control
see >>17491614

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>>17491968
nope, issa hatchback

>>17491971
>damage control
It's a counter-argument, don't sperg out just yet.

Also, hence why I said "where the owner could tell the difference".

Again, the people who buy A8s don't drive them in a way where they'll ever notice the understeer. If you want to make an argument for Audis understeering, pick on the new RS3.

>>17491976
Liftbacks are technically hatchbacks but it's utterly autistic to call them so

>>17491978
The people who buy Audi A8s could likely have to flee from would-be kidnappers, terrorists or whatever. It's not a good idea to have shitty handling.

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>>17491984

>>17491986
>hurr durr rich people don't get kidnapped
>hurr durr heads of state don't face terrorist threats

>>17491987
You've watched Taken and Transporter too many times, go away child

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>>17491988
Ever heard of John Gordon Mein or Adolph Dubs?

>>17492013
>replying with "Adolph Dubs" to a guy whose post ended in 88
>>>/pol/
also it's Adolf you dumb cuck

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Alfa 159

Literally the prettiest sedan/saloon car ever made imho
Absolutely ruined by
>Transverse mounted engine
>FWD as standard
>Anaemic engine options compared to earlier models ie 156

A longitudinally mounted F/M136 or even Busso V6 and RWD GTA version would be so tasty.

Good thing is because they are FWD unreliable shitboxes even ones in relatively decent condition are cheap af.

Perfect Coyote 5.0 & RWD conversion project.

>>17492019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Dubs
I just posted the pic to be a cheeky cunt, I didn't even noticed his digits

>>17491497
torque steer is typically due to different length driveshafts for the front wheels

>>17492013
>Ever heard of John Gordon Mein or Adolph Dubs?
One rolled down their bulletproof windows, the other got out of the car. None of them were killed by having a car that didn't oversteer; in fact none of them were even in a car chase

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No idea how this hasn't been posted yet. Could have been so much more, it's even styled to look rwd. Fucking Honda.

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Did someone say dead dream and crushed hopes?

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>>17492080
>in a parallel universe the MX-3 was a Miata coupe with the world's cutest V6

>>17490843
>FWD
>THAT
Let's get this shit started

>THE NATION OF GERMANY

>>17490878
that's literally the best looking celica. You take that back you stupid yuropoor

>>17491085

Just as naturally oversteering fwd's exist, like the 106 GTi, but hey, if a random busrider on /o/ says only non-rwds understeer, that must be the undeniable truth I guess

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Literally any of GMs W-body cars. H-bodies and Late G-bodies get an honorable mention.

>>17491042
>Mexican made VWs less reliable than European made ones
>American made BMWs less reliable than European made ones
>American made Benzes less reliable than European made ones
>Mercedes did it in fact have to shift first gen M-Class production to Austria to fix the horrid assembly quality issues of their first American factory back in the mid '90s

>>17492114
see >>17491133

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>>17492142
I've always wanted to turn a Grand Prix into a drift missile, but I don't want to waste the money because lolFWD and no manual options as far as I know. Best bet would be to drop the body onto a custom frame or something.

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>the little car that should've been

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>>17492162
>the big car that should've been

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>>17491896
>fwd
>comes with a 3.0 V6
>Activa trim has little bodyroll even compared to modern performance cars

>In the Swedish magazine Teknikens Värld's moose test, the 1999 V6 Activa still holds the record speed through the manoeuvre, faster than the McLaren 675LT.

Now tell me that meme wheel drive will somehow improve it.

>>17492188
>le moose test meme
The moose test is a safety test, not a performance test. The speed is the speed at which the car enters the curve, not the speed at which it exits.

>>17492166
that car has a BMW look to it

>>17492193
They gradually increase the speed until it becomes unsafe/loses control in the manoeuvre though, so it is absolutely about performance and handling

>>17492193

Entering the corner shows how fast the car can take the corner, you aren’t going to brake mid corner now, are you? Exit speed just depends on muh POWA and how well you can put it down. Handling wise this car is supreme.

You got to be weird to get fwd right.. Saab and Citroen for example.

>>17490814
LMFTFY
fact: if it's not awd it's not high end

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>>17491963
>I don't think you know who buys an A8 and how it's driven. Here's a tip: It's not dagumi or whatever that idol of yours is called. Businessmen buy the A8 for their 1 hour commute in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Angsty teens who think that the only good cars out there are RWD and under $5k (read: most of /o/) aren't the target demographic.

Not when buying used they don’t, which is what 99% of /o/ can actually afford (not that I would ever suggest buying a used A8 moneypit). Nothing against fwd cars, but Audis implementation is complete shit.

Pic related, typical used A8 activities

>>17492240
People who buy a used A8 on a 4chan-browsers budget deserve to crash and burn

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>>17490782
Everything about this car visually says RWD.

Toyota y u false advertise like this?

>>17491984

I think there was a movie like that once. Something about couriers and shit.

>>17492057
>looks rwd

When will these meme end?

>>17492211

All French manufacturers got fwd right at one point, also Honda and a few other Japs.

There is nothing that 'I don't drive cars but I love to parrot shit I read on this board' more than bashing fwd. RWD gives you no advantage other than its much easier to lose control of the car while turning, so yeah, that's great if you wanna do fucking donuts but other than that its pretty shitty. You'll like fish tailing around until one day it starts drizzling and you go around a turn as usual and end up on the other side of the road facing the opposite direction. As someone who had actually owned and driven cars, I like the fwd in my FiST better than the RWD in my ex mustang. I do admit it was fun at times when I was in HS, but it is definitely not this obviously superior choice for any and all cars.

also >>17491559
funny how there are no replies to the only logical argument. I'm convinced this sub is majority bus riders and teenagers. It's the only explanation for the worship of RWD manual cars. When you finish puberty and get some driving experience you'll understand.

>>17492205
>>17492208
>being this ignorant
keep being memesters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12akW-9bPOk
It's in Spanish but enable the captions

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Ford why?! RWD isn't hard, just do it.

>>17492246

But it literally looks like an edgy Eclipse

>looking like a rwd

End yourself

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Could've been the American 86, but no because FWD.

>>17492282
>auto-generated captions in spanish
>auto-translated to English

It's fucking unintelligible senpai, give me a run-down or post an English source

>>17492279
Mustang is the worst car to base your whole view of rear wheel drive off of. Keep in mind that enthusiast cars such as Porsche and the Miata are also RWD and they're not only amazing to drive, something like a Miata is sold for even cheaper than a mustang and is so notoriously controllable that it's touted as being the best handling car under 60k

>>17492279
>RWD gives you no advantage other than its much easier to lose control of the car while turning, so yeah, that's great if you wanna do fucking donuts but other than that its pretty shitty.
You're guilty of what you accuse others of doing. RWD isn't synonymous with hektik skidz.

>>17492302
Just look at the MX-5 and the 124 in the video. The 124 enters the maneuver faster but the MX-5 completes it in less time and with greater exiting speed. And then the Tiguan that has an amazing moose test speed of 82 km/h, faster than either of the Miata variants, but almost stops completely.

>>17492338
it is absolutely synonymous with fish tailing

>>17492348
What's your point? The 124 and Tiguan are understeering, it washes off huge amounts of speed in a demonstrably safe manner

>>17492361
It's not. Check out the Silvia S13.
RR layout would be closer but still no cigar.

>>17492370
The point is that the moose test has nothing to do with cornering performance. It's about safety, that's all there's to it. Equating it to cornering performance is ignorant.

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>>17492279
>sub

>>17492376
?
One of the cars goes through faster because it doesn't understeer, the others understeer and go slower.

Last time I checked, a car that performed well in corners wasn't one that understeered.

>>17492361
in the wet or with overtly powerful cars.
Meanwhile I've had FWD cars loose any and all steering because I took a turn too fast.

>>17492277
Only Honda, and only a few of those, have been 'right'. The others were compromises for the sake of cost.

>>17492386
what did he mean by this

>>17492402
Renault got FWD very very right with almost all of their RS models, Peugeot fucking nailed FWD with the 205 and 106 GTi, and Citroën managed to make some of the most comfortable cars ever, all FWD. Hell, they pretty much kickstarted the trend of "FWD is cool now" back in the day.

>>17491477
engine is mounted longitudinaly in front of the front axle, like in a subaru, except it doesnt have a rear driveshaft. so equal length driveshafts. prolem is it means loads of understeer, subaru kind of gets away with it cause they use short boxer engines

>>17492390
And yet if you look at the moose test results, they say the 124 is the superior of the two Miatas, and the Tiguan superior to them both. Hence, the test is dogshit for comparing performance.

>>17492439
That's a matter of interpretation, if you choose to look at it from a safety standpoint, the 124 and the Tiguan shrug off more speed, meaning that the middle-aged fat man and soccer mom behind the steering wheel will be less likely to run into anything after their evasive manoeuvre.

The Miata will carry more speed through the manoeuvre (due to having better handling/less understeer), meaning the faggot in the unicorn costume behind the wheel is more likely to hit something after his evasive manoeuvre. His car still performed better, but he is less safe after the manoeuvre.

>>17492439

Is that why the top ranking cars are all performance cars, except the Xantia?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09-C33SrJi8

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>ctrl+s "prelude"
>no results
It's like you guys aren't trying at all.

>>17491517
>>17491540
>>17491550
>>17491562
>>17491577

Because it's a SAAB 9000/Fiat Croma/Alfa 164 beneath, the Swedes and Fiat big business Jews in the 80s would have blindly followed the FWD= new technology OMG PROGRESS DA FYOOTURE, which is a great shame

>>17492468
>His car still performed better
and yet it had the lowest speed of entrance
>>17492480
>hurr durr why is a supercar with a low point of gravity stable at cornering
Have you seen how wide and low those cars are? Have you seen the size of the tires? Specially the Testarossa. Almost 2 meters wide, barely over a meter tall. It doesn't take a genius to see why it does well.

>>17492494
>it's a "guess who hasnt looked at the thread" episode>>17492501
it's not that it was DA FYOOTOORE, it's that fiat has always and will remains one of the most poorfag brands
meanwhile alfa was making RWD cars that BTFO'd a fuckton of other cars of the same era/configuration

>>17490820
>>17492240

It's not that RWD = totally better in every way, but Audi have this weird fetish of putting engines in front of the axle, if there was better weight distribution (e.g. with a RWD platform, maybe with the gearbox at the back) it would have less 'dead' steering and less understeer

My old 80 undertseered like a pig due to this weird German shit

>>17492519
>Audi have this weird fetish of putting engines in front of the axle
that's so they can implement "AWD" while making minimal changes to the rest of the car
it completely kills any semblance of handling capability though, but apparently that's worth it

Audi sells like hot pancakes and SAAB went bankrupt, life is so unfair

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>>17490782
>Cars ruined by a drive train

>>17492525

Its Quattro memes that sell cars after all.

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>>17492243
some of us dont mind dropping $500 on control arms

>>17492555
>not just buying a 7-series, or literally any car that can actually turn instead

>>17492555
Is that car actually worth $500 in that condition? It has stuff growing on it under the mirror for crying out loud

>>17492513

I'm talking about the time when the platform was in development, it's a 'didn't even read my post' episode apparently

I personally prefer RWD in a specialist, high power exec saloon but it's the same platform as the most basic 1.6 poverty spec Croma, I've never driven a Giuletta or a 75 to compare RWD Alfas of the time to the 164

>>17492555
$500? You could almost buy an entire A8 for that.

>>17492525
>>17492551

Quattro is the halo product based off obsolete rally nostalgia, but we are dealing with people who buy into the 'modern Audi is good' meme so it's not like they are into cars beyond the badge

>>17490796
But the engine is ahead of the front axle, herr, derr, wahhh, blehhhhh

>>17490861
God

>>17492623
Not longitudinal though, because Honda isn't completely fucking retarded

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>>17490882
Looks like a cock and balls. Trash bin it.

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>>17492562
its pollen. pic was after some rain

and I cheaped out on the control arms. they are like $200 each (x4 per wheel) OEM or $75/ea for the good ones. I got the $30 specials on rockauto so who knows

>is it worth $500
it's manual swapped and there is some accident damage up front so it's really far from "mint". probably could get $1k for it on cl xd

>>17490883
>This fucking thing.
Proving that shit is shit no later what the drivetrain or cylinder count.

>>17490962
It can turn just fine for 98% of drivers on 99.9999999% of roads.

What percent of people take a car to a track?

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>>17491069
Rwd can understeer. Shit is shit. Pic related. RWD is good, but having it alone does not make a sports car.

>>17492246
It visually also says that its fast...

Get your tissues ready you weepy faggots.

https://youtu.be/3VwgvIqXg3A

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>>17492707
>it's a vw paid "journalism" episode

>>17492788
Better turbos, better engine control, better combustion chambers enabling compression and more benefit than twin charger without the cost. That's what killed the 1.4

>>17492807
Except the non-twincharged versions were fine (by VAG reliability standards) and the twincharged version was one of the least reliable engines of the past 2 decades

>>17492816

why do people think a twincharged 1.4 will be as good as a simple, n/a 1.6, 1.8 or even 2.0 petrol? makes no sense at all, only normies buy this

>>17492922
It's all a scheme to get around EU CO2 taxes

>>17492929

I get that far but I mean in terms of reliability, either take the taxes on the chin or accept that you have a chance of your engine just grenading after ~3 years

>>17490782
even if it was rwd itd still be a car ruined by the people who love that brand.

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I love the body style so much, but unfortunately it's fwd.

>>17491352
I can get a gt4 for 4k.

>>17492948
Shifting units is more important than long-term (or even mid-term) reliability
As long as it doesn't give the buyer too much trouble during the warranty period it's fine, anything after that is not your problem anymore

>>17492948
A lot of the 1.4's ended up in fleet cars I think, they're usually replaced every two or three years so no issue for them.

The people who buy them used get the shit :)

>>17492646
>1k
that piece of shit goes for so cheap here, a full tank of gas is worth more than the damn car.
Only car cheaper than a bimmer, and a way more retarded fanbase. Bimmers are rwd too.
All audis do is sit in parking lot and blast shit music. Can't even burnout since lol fwd.
Bimmers go on race tracks at least. Audis are completely worthless.

>>17492966
>>17492974

I understand this too, but it's the normie logic that makes them buy a VAG car because it's "reliable" but then have them blow up outside (or even inside) the warranty period

If every manufacturer did it I wouldn't care but for some reason people get surprised that their high stress magic woo engine blows, it's a cycle of consumerist insanity

>>17493013
The initial buyer has no trouble, and buys a new car every few years, then goes on to tell everyone they've never had any trouble with VAG and will continue buying VAG because VAG has never let them down
The next owner gets all the critical failures and massive repair bills outside of warranty, but nobody cares because "they bought a used car" and used cars break

>>17492142
>FWD G-body
This was actually a thing? Jesus fucking christ.

>>17493031
Pretty much this, reliability issues of used cars can always be written off as "the previous user must have abused it" or "you don't know the service history" or whatever

>>17493031
>>17493059

I would believe this meme but I know a far few in warranty failures, no wonder it's come out of production

Dieselgate should have had some impact but for some reason no-one really cared about

This is only really going to get worse as leasing cars becomes ever more 'the norm' for reasons beyond me

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>>17492666

Guess this is one of the 0.00000001% cases.

>>17492954
>fanbases ruin cars
you sound like a sissy faggot

>>17490843
You import a bunch of turkroaches to build this pos??

>>17493479
kek

>>17491896
No. The problem were the abismal auto gearboxes (R25 target market prefered automatics) and wet noodle chasis.

Fwd is even good for a luxury car; no drivetrain noise and vibration, very predictable handling (yes, the average driver manages understeer better than oversteer), bigger trunk (no diff in the rear)...

>fwd
>don't come off the road sideways if you turn too hard
>rwd
>do

Why do people love rear wheel drive again?

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>>17493749
>>fwd
>>don't come off the road sideways if you turn too hard
right

>>17493749
>>don't come off the road sideways if you turn too hard
Yeah, you'll be going straight off instead.

>>17490962
what is sophisticated about Audis AWD?
It's just a torsen diff permanent awd system

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Civic Mugen RR

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>anything honda
>any modern toyota
also pic related

>>17493785
>It's just a torsen diff permanent awd system
Wrong, look up "quattro ultra"
It's literally longitudinal Haldex at this point, Torsen is gonna be S/RS only

>>17493762
>bucket seats and helmets with no harnesses or roll cage
those faggots had it coming

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>>17493785
he's just a vag shill
cant be too sophisticated if it been around since the 80's

>>17493772
kek, underrated
>>17493273
audi cucks btfo

>>17493762

lol fucking seat comes loose

what a piece of shit

car sucks too

>>17490962
>sophisticated AWD system
4Matic > quattro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRpDBzFFI1g
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/c-class-w204/139684d1221740131-quattro-vs-4matic-4matic1.pdf
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/c-class-w204/139685d1221740131-quattro-vs-4matic-4matic-2.pdf

>>17493826
Those are factory Integra Type R seats dude, and if you knew anything at all about track days, you'd know that most people don't have cages or harnesses and wear a helmet with the stock seats and seatbelts.

>>17493273
Thanks for getting the math correct.

>>17493762
>racing seat for safety

>>17493875
>Those are factory Integra Type R seats dude
They're not. In the original YouTube vid the fags were trying to defend themselves when others were saying they didn't fit the seats properly. In any case it was a hard shunt and proves FWD can oversteer uncontrollably given the right circumstances.

mfw I've spun my RWD car at the same corner harmlessly onto the grass

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the c30 wouldve been the best hot hatch if it were awd

>>17493875
Don't dude me you homo

>>17493907
It would've been even more pigfat with a massive turning circle.

That inline 5 turbo noise though, all worth it.

>>17493700
>No. The problem were the abismal auto gearboxes (R25 target market prefered automatics) and wet noodle chasis.
>R25 automatic gearboxes
>being relevant
considering they're insanely fucking rare, they really aren't an issue, nor were they at the time.
The very vast majority of R25s were sold in manuals.
>wet noodle chassis
dont fucking run your mouth, it handles very well for what it is.
the previous renaults, however, were entirely wet noodles.
>no drivetrain noise and vibration
the gearbox still pokes in the driving compartment tho, so it isnt all that quiet.
And the diesels (which represented the majority of sales) literally shake the shit out of the car under 2k rpm.
>very predictable handling (yes, the average driver manages understeer better than oversteer)
The car has a good chunk of weight on the front and it suddenly understeers, too. It goes from grip to nogrip in no time.
>bigger trunk (no diff in the rear)...
I checked and there is entirely the space to fit a driveshaft and a rear diff under the car. It's already there, there's absolutely nothing in that space, and it's simply here for no reason.
I think Renault might've wanted to install the AWD system of the 21 onto it (which would've been fucking fantastic) but sadly that never happened.

>>17490820
>understeer
>public roads
This isn't Initial D, you fucking faggot.

>luxury car
>rwd

why?

>>17494203
When I say wet noodle chasis, I don't speak of handling. I speak of the low chasis rigidity, which causes early fatigue. I don't doubt ithandled very well; Renault knew how to make suspensions work. It was no sports car, that's for sure.

There are no R25 with auto gearbox because most of them had early failures. A good auto trans would have made it more popular in certain markets (europe is not the center of the world).

The gearbox pokes into the cabin...below the center dash, at most. And don't compare it with a gearbox mounted below the center console.

I have yet to see a diesel from the same time as the J8S that doesn't shake like a motherfucker. And god knows the car was slow as a snail with any of the diesel engines.

The handling is easy; if you think a longitudinally engined renault has no predictive handling, either you have never driven one or it had shit tires.

I'll grant you the part with the trunk; but even then, the lack of driveshaft made exhaust routing easier, and the fuel tank can be bigger.

>>17494371
Europe is the center of the market for French cars though. Renault USA was fucked since the times of the alliance at the very least.

>>17494397
>Implying USA is the entire rest of the world.
French manufacturers did have (and maybe still have, I haven't checked) a certain presence in south america.

And australia.
And north africa.

>>17494371
There's no auto R25s left because the gearboxes werent sold more like.
Renault had some problems with trannies at the time, as the UN1 does. And enault lost it's foothold in the US by the mid '80s (and was seriously loosing it before that) and there was pretty much no one outside of europe which would've wanted the 25.
South america was filled with American cars and renault shat out cheap shitboxes there, so the brand wasnt seen as one of good premium quality.
The gearbox wouldnt have poked much further in the cabin than it already does tho. I've ridden my brother's Ford Sierra and it's very quiet too, despite the MT75 being a big fucker being well in the passenger compartment.
My point was that maybe the vibrations were reduced with FWD but I'd wager 75/80% of the 25s were diesel, so it counterbalances that point. And the Turbo-D isnt too shabby for what it is, but I sure woudl've enjoyed having a gas one rather.
I didnt say the handling wasnt predictive, it's just that it fucking hates surface changes.
Now, bear in mind the two '25s I've had both had more than 300k km on the clock so I would actually enjoy having one with low miles and good parts all around.
As I told you, I've checked and literally everything is set up so you could turn the car into a AWD without having to chop anything in the body/chassis.
From the exhaust routing to the gas tank, it all avoids an empty space that'd fit a driveshaft and rear diff snuggly.
I would fucking be extatic if I could actually get a 25 turbo baccarra and slap a 21 AWD system into it.

>>17494215
you don't want less leg room for your passengers?

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>>17492152

Mericunts BTFO

>>17491497
>torque steer isn't the result of its layout. Its the result of its transmission and lack of grip.
Except not those things you fucking retard

>>17492080
Fuuuck the mx6
They are so damn cheap only because they are fwd, theyd be supra level if they were rear

>>17494458
I'll grant you most of your points, but...
I still think a good auto gearbox would have made it more marketeable.

If the R25 were rwd...the engine couldn't be much further back. Yes, the trans would be far from the cabin, but weight distribution would still be a problem.

I honestly think most R25 were gas. Don't quote me on that; I don't know for certain, but paying the extra price for a 25 over a 21 and still get the "anemic" (as most diesel engines back then) diesel version... idk

I can't wager for sure on the details of the R25 underbody. I know 4x4/quadra R21s had different exhaust and fuel tank layouts (and different rear suspension; wishbone arm and spring instead of trailing arm and torsion bar).
Maybe R25s had more space to work with, and engineers simply decided to arrange things to install a rear diff in the future (in case it was a success, which never happened).

>>17494578
I believe that if there had been more RWD coupes on the market it would have leveled the price out across the board.
Perhaps not the FnF taxed cars, though.

>>17494578
Am I the only one that sort of likes cars such as the mx6 and ford probe? They are somewhat sporty, look great, and the engines are pretty ok.
Fwd makes it cheaper and economical.
Really, a good alternative to a 3 door hatchback as first car. God knows europe is choke full of those.

>>17494647
Oh, I'm not saying a good auto gearbox wouldnt have been better, but what's left of the experience is that in the first place in the aimed markets it wouldnt have sold much in automatic anyway.
Weight distribution would be less of a problem due to the driveshafts being in the rear with the diff added. I'm pretty sure it has something of a 65/35 or 60/40 f/r distribution as of now.
as for the details, it's intependant mac pherson struts in the rear and the trailing arms have cutouts in them that'd let a driveshaft through. The wheel hub/bearing would have to be modified to let the shaft in but I wager it's doable.
I'm still really thinking about trying to convert a 25 to RWD. I thought that if I used the 2WD gearbox from a Jeep Cherokee, driveshafts and rear end from a Ford sierra, it'd be fairly easily doable and would result in a fucking great car.
>tfw only Sierras are cheap, reliable and well performing shitboxes in RWD
>>17494680
Mx6s and Probes are their own kinda fun but fwd doesnt follow up to the looks imo
plus, rwd isnt all that more expensive to make and maintain at all.

>>17490796
Type-R Civics have always been FWD.
Changing it into any other drivetrain would make it heavier, and in turn, slower.

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>>17493055
There are two different G-body platforms. One is the one your thinking of, the other is pic related

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I feel like the Pulsar could've been RWD instead of AWD, it'd be a fun little SR20DET hatchback with RWD

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>>17494210
>not driving like you're in an episode of Initial D 24/7
>not blasting Eurobeat whenever you're in your car
>not constantly monologing about cars on the road as if you're le simulations man

Get a load of this twerp.

>>17495091
Short wheel base and RWD don't go together that well.

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>tfw no x-drive

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>>17495190
Explain the A-meme 86.

>>17495195
Well I worded it wrong, for sure. Short wheel base and wide track don't go together very well.
As you see the ratio length:width isn't the same as the Pulsar is a lot more square.

>>17495214
Oh, so is that the reason why a lot of Kei cars are RWD? Because they have a more appropriate width/length ratio?

>>17495214
Fuck me, It's already been done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBT7ATH7Qas

>>17495222
There are literally 3 notable "sports" Kei cars that are RWD, and all three have higher length/width ratio compared to the Pulsar.

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The current Taurus SHO should be only rear-wheel drive. I guess Ford didn't want the Taurus to steal the Mustang's spotlight.

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>>17495284
*overtakes you*

>>17495298
*while scraping on the passenger's side*

>>17491559

Not sure what reality you're living in, but Audi Quattro was dominant in both rally and F1.

>>17494418
As a South American I can confirm, but these markets are as hostile to autotragics as Europe is. And the main segment has been the B segment for ages. The best selling Renault is the Sandero, and the best selling Peugeots are the 301 and 208

>>17495809
>Audi Quattro
>F1
Thanks for using a trip so I can filter your idiocy

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>>17490782
I wish my car were rwd. Awd would be even better tho

>>17496131
Nice Blista Compact

>>17496131
even better if it were mid engine rwd

>>17496256
Agreed. The amount of space I have in the back is crazy. Would be nicer with the engine back there.

>>17490843
Isn't this like a civic in Europe?

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>>17493810

>>17496445
perfect, just the way it is.

>>17496496
this, some cars are just made to be FWD and it makes sense
not the case with the A8 though

>>17495284

Toyota Starlet and a lot of other old rwd shitboxes.

can guarantee >>17490823 has never driven an Audi let alone sit in one.

Been using 2017 2.0 A4 and it's easily the best in its class.

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>>17497388
>Been using 2017 2.0 A4 and it's easily the best in its class.
is this guy serious?