What causes people to become this retarded?

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Weeaboos and wehraboos can't handle that modern muscle is faster than anything under 100k than Japan or Germany can put out, both in straight lines and otherwise.

>>17359802
/thread

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>>17359802
this is faster than all three around willow

>amerifats

>>17359982
>spec race car with slicks is faster than road car on street tires

Yes, and a Camaro GT4.R is faster than that. What's your point?

>>17360001
>d-doesn't count

a camaro GT4.R isn't sub 100k, sperg more

>>17359788
>CarThrottle
It used to be good, it used to.

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>>17359788
>a challenger appears

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>>17359802
meanwhile i have a turbo prelude making a measly 315whp/265wtq and lay waste to these cars on a daily basis. purpose built street cars destroy these heavy ass, no powerband having ass, midlife crisis having ass cars.

>>17360011
>no reply

stay BTFO

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>>17359802
This car can be had for $85k and it walks circles around any redneck mullet mobile.
Who the fuck wants to spend more than $40k on a American car anyway?

>>17360054
idiots that dont know how to build their own shit/ dont know what a true drivers car is. those who know, know.

>>17359802
fpbp

>>17360033
Bruh what about V-Tech?

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>>17360150
go to an SCCA autox man, you will see lots of true drivers cars, and very rarely will one of them be a muscle car.

I saw a ZL1 this weekend go off course four times in one run and push much slower times than my NA miata. >>17360054 is right, the porsches there were destroying pretty much everything

I will say there was a GT350 there that ran some very impressive times, and I was surprised to see a muscle car make turns that quick

>>17359802
you're wrong, and a faggot. here's your (you)

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>>17360026
>GT2 RS
>implying it'll be anything less than 300k

The only American car that is challenging is this.

>>17360150
muscle cars are true drivers cars?
holy hell you're one deluded amerilard.

>>17360237
Yeah well the image states that no import can touch a Mustang or a Challenger

>>17360213
>muscle car drivers suck at track days
Why am I not surprised

>>17360213
Lol just looked up Tire Rack Solo Nationals results, where are all the muscle cars?
True drivers cars lmfao
https://www.scca.com/pages/solo-archives

>>17360213
Fast car + fast driver > slow car + fast driver > slow car + slow driver >>> fast car + slow driver

Especially if that fast car relies more on driver skill (AKA a manual RWD muscle car)

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>>17360213
Nice mr2

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>>17360319
I almost got that gen MR2 but I ended up with a miata because parts and ease of access to the engine. I hope we see another MR2 someday, but for now porsche kinda owns the market of mid engine sports cars you can one day afford

>>17360150
>built not bought meme

so which part of the design process from Ford/Chevy were you involved in?

>>17360194
VTEC is cool and useful and will always help....truth is, with a turbo, its an afterthought though. VTEC works because at the end of the day it makes the engine suck in a bit more air. im pushing in positive pressure from a turbo and thats all you need.

Its in a 5th gen prelude and i ditched the H22 for the F22B DOHC.

>>17360400
i must not have been clear. he was asking who buys 40k american cars, i responded with idiots.

>>17360033
moar pics? Sounds awesome

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>>17360473

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>>17360473
captcha can suck my balls

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>>17360473
still suckin balls

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>>17360473
People really underestimate what a well built honda will do, even on a stock engine. An equal length mani, 3" free flowing exhaust, and a PROPERLY sized turbo makes for a mean ass street car. That dyno is a little misleading, on the street boost rolls in around 2700 RPMs and pulls to redline, and the turbo has around 480whp in it when im ready. If you look at the dyno, the torque band is broad and long and relatively flat...thats what you want.

Turbo lag and weak torque bands make for a dog of a car.

runs 12.4 @ 113 on radials.

My 94 civic can beat them all.

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>>17360541
Cute little dyno graph you got there anon

>>17360636
what's the point of those extra 25 hp if the car weighs 1000lbs more?

>>17360636
its true, it is cute.

Thing is , id likely rape that car on the street. i bet that cts-v weighs over 3500lbs and has the shit gearing.

people dont realize that the literal equivelant of a "rear end gear" in RWD cars AKA: 3.73 gears, is a final drive in a fwd car. My honda has a 4.266 final drive, a broader powerband, and better power:weight.

all that said, im driving a 20 year old honda that feels liek a racecar and i bet that cts-v is nice as hell to drive and is comfortable.

>>17360033
>With no back ass seats, sound ass proofing or ass, any modern ass comfort at all

Sounds fantastic.

>>17359982
BTFO

>>17360694
has back seats. only modern comfort i dont have is AC, and i dont care because i dont cruise in this car in traffic on 90 degree days.
The car is the way it is on purpose. its a boosted street car and i want it to feel and sound like one, and it does.

I have an acura tl to drive anytime i dont want to feel like im driving a racecar on the streets.

>>17360556
>slow piece of shit...i can smoke the fuck outta that in my 1999 prelude sh with a couple of simple mods

>>17359982
Probably ls swapped

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>>17359982
Hairdressers on suicide watch

>>17359802
>gets manshamed around a track by an Elise
>HURR ME BIG VEE ATE MUSSELCAR ME GO FAST

>>17360876
>7:22 around the ring

slower than the GTR

japan wins again

I recently got into /o/. And yet I have to see a day go by without /o/ denouncing eachothers tastes.

I've categorized the cults as follows, r8 me please:

>The Murican car mechanic who wears a "Freedom^Tm" t-shirt while placing a V12 in his Murican supercar.

>The Fuhrer of the Aryan volk and ruler of the Third Reich named Mercedes von Bimmer who rides in his modded 10+ y/o BMW wagen.

>The Kawaii Nii-san weaboo who likes his collection of Toyobru's while driving a 3k Civic shitbox that never needs maintenance.

>The Korean dude who gets shit on regardless of what he has achieved in the last 70 years of his life.

Will there ever be a day on /o/ where people don't fling shit at eachother in the posts and start threads with trashtalk like "What causes people to become this retarded?"???

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>>17359802
Lol.

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>>17360054
Yup.

>>https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

There are 10 yank mobiles in total on this list
>[Ctrl-F] "Porsche"

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>>17359788
It's the same website that encourages this

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>>17360923
Most of /o/ is a bunch of shit flinging retards talking about cars they'll never own. It gets pretty easy to ignore the mindless shitposting after a while. Pic related, most of /o/

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>inb4 autistic wib and furry internet battle with scattered namefag busriders in between

>>17360033

Stay poor

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>>17360923
>And yet I have to see a day go by without
>denouncing eachothers tastes
>Will there ever be a day
>where people don't fling shit at eachother in the posts and start threads with trashtalk

Pretty sure this is every big board on 4chins, and probably most of the smaller boards too.
>Count me in the "Kawaii Nii-san weaboo" cult

>>17360923
>placing a V12 in his Murican supercar
>not a PUSHROD VEEATE LIKE GOD INTENDED

>>17360013
No it didn't

>>17359802
Kill yourself benchracer
>>17360001
Why would you respond to Soviet?

>>17360948
is that a GTR fanboy

>>17360923
/o/ is dead and buried. Benchracing autists ruined this board. The few of us who do one cars pretty much appreciate everything for what it is.

>>17360033

>Reggaeton intensifies

>>17361414
>wanting fast cars is benchracing

>>17359788
holy shit that camaro looks so good rip ford

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>>17361490

>>17360033

No you don't. Stay mad poorfag.

>>17360873
wrong

>>17360877
No it doesn't

probably gonna get a mustang, v6 or ecoboost?
also, should I pay extra for the premium/performace packages?

>>17362504
Don't what?

Are you saying no i don't torch all these 3500+lb 450 FLYWHEEL hp cars with shit gearing??? HAHAHAHHAHAHAH this board really is full of kids who have no experience with performance cars of any kind. Even the guys who actually own these cars will admit the same thing. They are NOT fast compared to anything that is built with a purpose.

It's not hard to understand how a 2750 pound car with slightly less power, a better power band, and better gearing is faster. Im not saying mine is that fast, Im saying these others are that SLOW. If you had ridden in real street cars you would understand. Alll these "muscle " cars run out of breath ast 60mph at best, often sooner.

Hopefully I'm misunderstanding you and you're trying to say I'm just lying about owning the car.

>>17361196
Not poor. Software developer making good money who loves a well built turbo Honda. If i wanted a 40k dollar 13 second mustang believe me, id have one.

>>17362591

Congrats, you made a car that's slower than a stock automatic camaro ss

>>17362783
*frantically looks up which brand new $40k car can eek out a better quartet mile time under perfect conditions than an old Honda with a turbo*

I bet i still pull on him on the street, no question if it's from any kind of roll where 99% of real street races occur.

That's beside the point though... the point of all this is that these cars are not very fast, they're not very fun, especially the auto in your example....lol he couldn't even pick a gear if he wanted to race from anything but a street light, and they're stupid expensive. They aren't drivers cars.

12 more psi and this car cracks 10's.... will you compare it to a hellcat next?

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>>17362906
>hehe my car that I've done extensive modifications to (including adding forced induction) on drag radicals is only a little slower than bubba in his leased camaro

>>17362926
You're attempting to reason with a hondafag. I love missed old shitboxes as much as the next guy, but a new Mustang or whatever is fast as shit and still nice to drive, if a bit muted.

>>17362926
You his are forgetting why i replied to this thread in the first place... any idiot acting like the lot of stock modern muscle cars are untouchable and some engineering masterpiece and they are not. Call them comfy and quiet and pretty and all that... sure. They are. But they're not "fast as shit", they aren't anything some crazy brew driving experience and really they aren't impressive at all, neither is my Honda, and that's the whole point.

Guys on this forum finance these cars to go fast and have fun and they're doing it wrong unless they don't care about the money. Sorry if you're one of those guys and this hits you in the feels.

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>>17360033
>yo JDM swag af purple matching wg and cam cover
>315whp/265wtq
I can double that with half of what your car is worth.

>>17363016
Please post what my car is worth and what youre going to do to make 660/530 are the wheels. Don't forget to add all the labor in that number, we all know no one on this forum actually works on their own shit and understands what's going on, hence why i have to explain to multiple people the idea of power: weight

>>17362569
Performance pack yes. Big brake kits are pricey. The suspension bits and wheels are nice. You're just gonna buy it later anyway

>>17363060
Dude none of us doubt you have a fast car in a straight line. But at the end of the day who gives a shit. A last gen mustang with a Bolt on supercharger will probably keep up with you fine. Don't take yourself so seriously dude. You aren't earning cyber street cred showing off 1/4mi times or how you installed forged pistons or whatever.

>>17363354
Dude no one is taking anything seriously. We're bullshitting about cars. Alll the domestic lovers are sensitive

And any SC'd V8 would probably blow my doors off

>>17360033
diggin that wastegate set up. Just bought a tial 44 myself

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>>17360556
it's nice to see a sleeper every once in a while rather than unrealistic standard super cars keep it up anon

>>17362993
>Guys on this forum finance these cars to go fast and have fun
>they're doing it wrong
So, having fun is wrong?

>>17362591
> new muscle cars run out of breath at 60
> can hit 170+ mph easily

Stay mad tuner child. Your low power underbuilt fuckrig will never compete.

>>17360681
It feels like a race car because you have never driven a fast car.

>>17363463
Don't run too low of psi or you'll have boost creep issues with the big 44. I creep up an extra 2 or so psi by redline and there's really nothing to do about it besides run more boost. Drives me nuts.

>>17363617
You conveniently left out the last part of that.... unless you don't care about the money. The fun the users of this forum generally seek can be had much cheaper and the cars can be way more fun than financing a new camaro. Not even in the same galaxy cost wise. So many great cars out there and i think a lot of guys don't know it because they haven't hadf the opportunity to really see what the golden era imports are made of, Nissan especially. I'd take a 350whp s14 over a new mustang any day at the track or to go out cruising.... and that's what were talking about. Not to mention you actually learn how to work on those cars and get much MUCH deeper into this
Hobby, knowledge and skill wise. It's just a better choice in my opinion for your average /o/ user.

Idk though, maybe you guys should jyst go buy new cars that are ok fast, comfy and quiet.

Its just not for me. Maybe I'm old for this forum and you guys just have a different perspective i won't crack.

>>17363677
Idk how to respond to any of this. You green text that they run out at 60 like you don't believe it. Wtf are you driving? I have driven almost all these new muscle cars, my friends have them, they're slow dude. They're done after 2nd gear and that's it.

Do the new mustangs and camaros do 170? Srs

>>17363476
Thanks man. Sleeper status adds a new level of fun on the street

>>17363708
They'd presumably all be able to minus governing. They're never going to get down to those 90s power/weight ratios with all the safety shit in the "muscle" sedans.

>>17359788
The same thing that cause them to vote for Trump

>>17363872
That's wild.

If they would shorten those gears to realistic limits i bet those cars would be a hell of a lot faster. Gearing is everything. You could make 1000whp slow with the wrong gearing.

Kobe picked up almost a solid second on the 1/4 with the same power and gearing changed

Do you most of you guys go install a shorter gear when you buy these? What do they come with? 3.55's?

>>17363872
I mean, what's the point of having all this extra gear to go 170 if they're governed to never see that speed??? That's exactly what I'm talking about with shit gearing. If these things were legit done at 140 and you used all the gear available i bet they pick up the better part of a second on the 1/4 mile.

>>17363893
Manual on a 6th gen Mustang comes with 3.31 from factory.

>>17360001
no replacement for displace...

>>17363927
Yeah, I imagine there's still considerations put towards fuel economy (remember the 1-4 lockouts) and more relaxed driveability vs throwing that out for sharper performance.

>>17363931
That's stupid long. Like school bus long. Anyone that has one of these cars needs to immediately go to a 3.73 and be prepared to be blown away at the difference. That's a good compromise without seriously sacrificing highway rpm . It's like ford is throttling their own car.

>>17363942
True.

I always considered the whole point of the 6th gear is so you can run short gears and still have a decent OD in 6th if you want it. 3.31 isn't even in the right neighborhood.

I've read the '13 GT500 is geared to something stupid, like 350 mph at 6th, but is drag-limited at 189.

>>17363965
Yeah, I can get 30 mpg on highway once in awhile in the GT, but uh, there is a reason they toss the 3.73 on the PP.

>>17363990
Does that mean performance package? If you never have before, find someone that has it and get them to go through a couple gears, i bet it straight up walks away.

30 emmpeegees does sound good though

>>17364015
Yeah, but not really what you buy these things for. Now I want 3.73s!

>>17364053
if youre in a gt with a 3.31 right now and thats what you know, youll feel a huge difference when you go to 3.73's. the whole powerband will be improved, guaranteed. i might even see if theres a middle ground somewhere in the high 3.80 range. youd have to get on a gear calculator and see what your rpm/speed is in 6th with X gear to see where youd be comfortable on the highway, but anything is better than a 3.31. use that torque. its wasted on a long gear.

>>17364095
Yeah, I'm excited to get them installed and just eat the gas difference on longer trips.

>>17359788
>carthrottle
There's your problem. I abandonded that ship 2 some years ago

>>17361402
Yeah it did. For the first year or two

>>17364109
I dont think itll be that bad really on the gas as long as you stay out of it most of the time like a normal person. do that and get some bolt ons and a legitimate live dyno tune on good software with a good tuner and i bet those things get deep into the 12's with tires.

i cant even imagine how gentle the tune is that ford puts on those cars so billy bob and soccer mom #8 dont blow them up in 50k miles.

>>17363872
>>17363893

They are governed to 155 due to the tires. The more equipped options (camaro ss 1le, mustang gt track package) are not governed.

>>17360033
>turbo Honda
>claiming 12.4 1/4 mile
>315 horsies

Sure thing, kid! You may not realize it, but some of us here actually know you're full of shit.

>>17366293
He probably saw a 600+hp demon civic or some shit online and thinks you can do that to every honda out of the box

>>17359788
Musclefags paint a big bull's-eye on their back. Should they be surprised when someone decides to throw darts at it?

>>17363708
The new camaro ss will do 170 bone stock. Lots of YouTube videos as proof. They don't pull past 4th though. I had mine to 145, shifting Into to 5th at redline. BRZ kept riding my ass at 60, so I pulled away from him like he was parked(he was try Harding like a motherfucker. Could see the hood drop at every shift.

>>17367020
So, I was at tx raceway last year . Half of those 600hp civics don't even make it out of the burnout box without breaking something.

>>17360681
How in the world do you possibly put that much power through a front wheel drive, unequal length shaft (I assume...) Honda gearbox without massive torque steer? On a car that had what...100 hp out of the factory?

Not shitposting - I really want to know. How do all the Hondas out there that claim 4-5 times the power of stock run power through a very mundane, very weak front wheel drive drivetrain?

>>17360559
What's with the chinese fingertrap shit? I saw them in the rice section of the autoparts store today when I was buying soap. What are they called? What do they do?

>>17367957
>How do all the Hondas out there that claim 4-5 times the power of stock run power through a very mundane, very weak front wheel drive drivetrain?
Dump 20k into it and replace half the car.

>>17363708
The Camaro ZL1 can do 200mph.

>>17366293
not full of shit. its not that hard to believe and not even that impressive of an ET for the power....for someone who knows performance cars. Saying shit like this just outs you as someone who has no experience.

you do NOT need 500HP to run low 12's in a honda. wtf are you confused about?

/o/ constantly outdoes themself with the stupid.

>>17367957
i can put the power through it because its not a crazy amount of power. depending on conditions, i downshift to second around 4k and mash it, sometimes itll break the tires loose, other times it wont. also, spinning tires isnt as bad as people think as long as youre still accelerating a good rate. it takes huge power to just sit there and spin going nowhere.

torque steer is not that bad at all, im in a heavy 5th gen prelude with a very nice suspension and a very nice traction bar with radius rods. also the prelude is 200hp stock, not 100.

idk what you mean by weak and mundane.....they arent weak and the transmissions can handle massive power stock. if anything is mundane its these massive V8s with lol 3.31 gears.

>>17368075
thats a flex pipe. it allows you to move the exhaust a little bit to get it straight in case you arent a high level welder (which im not).

>>17368096
nonsense. total fucking nonsense.
all of this is just proof that you guys have no experience with high power street cars that werent made in a factory. you guys arent stupid, youre just ignorant and cant know what you dont know. we all started somewhere, i cant get mad at you guys.

>>17367957
also, to elaborate a little more...

Boost by gear eliminates all traction issues. i dont run it becuase im not making enough power to need it, but its there if i want it.

also, contrary to what you would think, smaller, more responsive turbos have less traction issues than big turbos that come in like a sack of potatoes at 5k RPM. running wide 235ish tires helps a ton.

the traction is literally a non issue. with any forethought you can eliminate the problem all together at any power level. anyone who says different is speaking from their ass, not experience.

>>17367109
when i say run out of breath im not saying that the cars literally stop moving and you cant accelerate any farther. im sure with enough road they could end up going over 160mph, a bone stock h22 prelude will hit 145. im saying the rate of acceleration decreases DRAMATICALLY. they rip right up until the end of 2nd gear...hit 3rd, and they start getting winded and it feels like you lost 70whp. This is mainly due to the shit gearing these cars come with because they arent a PURPOSE built street car like mine or anyone else who thought of all the different pieces when building their setup. they want good mpg's, good emissions, rock solid reliability....that all comes at the cost of performance.

with a few grand and the right direction im sure you can open these up and rip up the streets. from the factory though, they dont compete.

>>17369984
Literally every fucking car, you retard. Stop shit posting and learn how drag works.

>>17366293
315whp will run 12s all day long in an EF/EG/EK civic. I've seen air cooled VW beetles break into the 12's with less than 200hp at the CRANK

>>17370436
literally every fucking car what? are you saying all cars have shit gearing and die off like crazy after 60? false. so fucking false.

>>17370454
finally someone who knows.

12's isnt even fast. acting like its some crazy feat to do with over 300whp/good gearing/the powerband you have with a turbo and cant be true is just fucking hilarious. what reality do you guys live in where power:weight doesnt apply?

>>17370454
A v6 mustang can do that with just a CIA and a tune.

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>>17370485
please explain to me how a car accelerates in a COMPLETELY LINEAR FASHION while increasing speed AND FIGHTING AGAINST DRAG, WHILE PUTTING DOWN A SET AMOUNT OF HORSEPOWER..

you're retarded.

literally, fucking retarded.

furthermore, lets assume you do indeed run a best of 12.3(you probably run 12.7's usually) @ 113
that puts your 0-60 at what, 4.5 seconds?
so, you're doing 120 at 9 seconds in..what do you do, jack the brakes at the 1000 foot mark so no one picks up on your physics defying motor?

>>17370815
who the fuck said ANYTHING about accelerating in a "COMPLETELY LINEAR FASHION"????

ive said that these cars are dogs after 2nd gear, they feel that theyve run out of breath, and have no GEARING to keep a high rate of acceleration after 60 mph....and they DONT. they die off and have nothing left and its a fact. come 60mph and youre pulling lengths on these cars like they just shut down 4 cylinders.

your mental gymnastics are impressive.

>>17369883
>all this shitposting for a Honda
I get it, you really really like Honda. That's cool man, your devotion to one company is admirable. But if I see you on the track, my Hellcat is going to win. We all have limits and you have hit yours.

>>17370830
what in gods fuck are you talking about?????

where did i say that the rate of acceleration never changes? i said it DIES on these muscle cars and it DOESNT on street cars that are built to go fast and were put together with that purpose.

>>17360580
Or just buy something with a V8 that makes the exact same, if not more power and not butcher up the integrity of the car.

>>17370853
got nothing to with me liking my car. i dont think its impressive and ive said that about 4 times. the point is that these MUSCLE!!!! cars are slow as shit and every dip shit driving one thinks theyre in an F1 car. you guys are the new ricers that drive around trying to race everyone and being loud as all fuck all the time.

every single one of these guys look like theyve seen a ghost after a honda walks off from them.

>>17370866
yeah and spend 40 grand doing it. and more power doesnt mean shit when its 3500lbs and has the gearing of a school bus.

Nice Honda.
I should look into gearing, too.

>>17370890
its the single best thing you could do for your car performance/$ wise. youll feel it in the butt dyno immediately and see it in your ET's at the track. going from 3.31 to 3.73 on these new mustangs....it hoenstly probably feels like you picked up 40-50whp.

what are you driving?

>>17370867
There will come a point when you're car has reached the summit. What will you do then? Once you reach peak power, you will have nothing left. There is an old car saying we have here in Japan called お前はもう死んでいる. And you have made it.

>>17370876
>$40k

my LS1 T/A was $2500

stock ~270whp

1st gear is 3.06:1, final drive is 3.23:1. that's 42mph redlined in first.

a s80 usdm b series trans at 8500 rpm will take you to 41 mph.

88-91 d series trans will take you to 42.25 mph

an s2000 can go around 45 mph in first

and a K series RSX type S can only go 40mph.


>gearing of a school bus
>i don't know how gearing is calculated


fucking honda kids


coming from an ed6 hatch owner

>>17370867
>muscle cars are slow as shit

mm ok

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>>17370846
Absolutely retarded. Here's your you. Guys look at how hard my Honda pulls in the high gears! .....runs 113 in the quarter mile......... Nearly identical to an NA, bone stock, warrantied pushrod v8 Camaro(except, oddly enough, the Camaro does it in 116 mph)

Please explain...
I'll even add some numbers. Note the top speed in each gear.

>>17370846
>ive said that these cars are dogs after 2nd gear, they feel that theyve run out of breath

funny how my LS1 car walks AP1 s2000s after 80mph only

we are even until 80 and i truck past them


>TORQUE BOY

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While we're at it, note the gear ratio similarity............

>>17371002
Don't waste your time on preludetard. He dumped a bunch of money on a turd and has to defend his decision by knocking cars for a nonexistent issue

>>17371035
funny how he is obsessed over his gearing but the H series transmission is the one of the worst honda offers

>>17371035
>>17371070
inb4 he says he put custom ratios in it

>>17370945
move onto a better platform. this car is a toy/project and nothing more.
>>17370952
why are you posting gear/speed ratios for first gear? at no point did i say anything wrong with 1-2nd gear on these cars. ive specifically noted how they die from 3rd gear on. combo of shit gearing and a lack of power in the upper RPM band to be really effective.

also i was clearly referring to buying a new car at 40k. you have what ive been alluding to this whole time, likely a street car that you or someone else modified to perform. nothing wrong with that at all and i bet you also pull on these new mustangs/camaros.
>>17370962
they are.

>>17370992
youre comparing speed and gear on 2 cars that have damn near opposite powerbands with different number of gears int he trans. exactly what point are you trying to make here
>>17371070
no it isnt. put a b series trans on an H and you lose the whole benefit of the H.....torque (for a honda).

no reason to have gears leaving you at 7krpm+ in an h22/f22. the guys that go H2B have built heads and a powerband that makes sense with the ultra short gears of the b series trans.

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Where is it not making power?

>>17371002
s2000's are slow as fuck in stock form, they have troubles getting deep into the 14's. the fact that they even keep up with you to 80 is fucking hilarious.

better gearing/powerband is the only reason he is keeping up

>>17371119
Everyone else in the thread gets the points being made except you. I'm not explaining any other way

>>17371125
>that sexy 400+ lb/ft from 2700 to almost 5700

>>17359788
>What causes people to become this retarded?
american genes and education

>>17371125
post proof that car is bone stock on a stock ecu.

i would never say any of this about a modified car, im strictly speaking about these off the dealership new muscle cars.

also, notice how its done before 7krpm? that hurts you. that limits the gear you can run. that forces you to have to run a long gear because your powerband is short. this is my point. gearing is just as if not more important than the power.

im not shitting on V8s in general, they will always outperform a 4 cylinder on an even playing field, its asinine to say otherwise, im talking about the lot of new cars. not impressed and that was where all this started at the beginning of this thread.

>>17371135
exactly. you made no point at all. your comparison is absolute bullshit.

come again.

>>17371119
>domestics all have school-bus gearing

>I-I can't run a h2bt because i don't have the motor for it

how much was that goal post relocation kit?

>>17371129
>better gearing/powerband is the only reason he is keeping up

more like he launched at 4k while i just rolled into it. still beat him the entire way

>slow as fuck
>highest output n/a 4 cylinder engine ever made
>tightest gearing and highest RPM capable honda

bro you drive a fucking prelude

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>>17371151
They all put about the same power down(~410 whp), depending on the dyno.

Stock ecu
...
Who the fuck puts a tune on a stock car?!
.


You have no idea what you're talking about . Just stop now

>>17371156

new ones do.at the minimum these mustangs do.

i dont need to run an H2B, my shit is good where it is. honda understands gearing and thats the main reason these 190hp heavy ass preludes from 1993 run as fast as most production V8's of the same time period.

next.

>>17371151
>gearing is just as if not more important than the power.

which is why my suzuki sidekick with a short trans and a 5.12 rear ratio literally crawls to highway speeds at over 7000 rpm

power is everything you fucking idiot. remember the fucking turbo that you put on it? all it does is add torque

if gearing was actually important you would be running a B16 lsd trans


>but i can't rev high enough

its the same for these domestics. they make big power at lower rpm so they use transmissions that keep them where they make power. period

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>this thread

>>17371177
power/liter doesnt equal speed. it equals efficiency.

they still arent fast in a drag race, they make no torque.

>>17371182
>run as fast as most production V8's of the same time period.

a 4.6l 2v gt mustang is NOT "most" production v8s

n e x t

an SH weighs like 200 lbs less than an LT1 Fbody you fucking idiot

>276hp/325 ftlb stock STOCK STOCK STOCK

>>17371192
were talking about cars that make power here. we all are. youre the only person atalking about some pos that makes 80whp and using that as gospel to say power is important and gearing isnt.

someone just showed me a graph and it makes power everywhere. what are you talking about it only does it in low rpm?

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>>17371197
>1993-1994
>3200 lbs
>275hp, 325 ft-lb torque

>4th gen prelude
>2840 lb
>187 hp 153 ft-lb

>>17371220
>what are you talking about it only does it in low rpm?

low is relative. stock LS engines redline at 6k

you don't run aggressive gearing when you have a low redline and make torque at low rpm

it doesn't make your camaro SS a school bus


my suzuki is a flawless example of what gearing is

give it all the gear in the world you still need torque

>>17371221
right. an engine making 90 less horsepower, 150ish less torque,only 200 pounds lighter, and it still is right in the neighborhood of that car. how is that possible?

gearing.

>>17371238
yes you do, when it mkaes power everywhere. take a stock ls1 camaro, put 4.11's in it and watch your quarter mile time improve. its not debateable

>>17371248
A full second slower in the quarter
Close

Pick only one

>>17371248
>90 less hp
>only 200 lbs lighter

this makes the prelude look worse. a lot worse

>>17371256
>quarter time
>usable power

because most people daily at WOT

>>17371264
14.2-14.5 is whats expected. you can get a low 15 or a 15 flat easily out of a 4th gen h22 prelude. still a big gap, i concede on that example.

its only as close as it is because of the reasons listed though. i could find a 200hp V6 that weighs the same and itd be in the high 16's due to shit gearing.

>>17371256
>>Picking and choosing when to use final
>>drive vs individual gear ratios

>>17360580
nice car man, that all on stock internals so far? if it is what sort of poewr will those engines take? toying with the idea of swapping one of these into a low spec civic, going for somthing similar to what you have but in a lighter chassis

>>17371272
no it doesnt. proves the weigt wont even stop the gearing.

no one is talking about usable. were talking about speed/gearing/going fast. i am right, you are wrong, put 4.11's in it and its faster. end of story.

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the firebird can't turn

>>17371280
So now you're talking velocity...aka fast... Do you know what a final drive ratio increase does to your top speed(aka velocity)

>>17371279
still on the stock cast pistons. ARP headstuds. if it blows down the road (and it eventually will) ill build the bottom end and there wont be much of a power limit, more of a "how much power do you really want in a prelude" limit.

any B/F/H series engine will take 300whp with qualirt parts and a quality tune. longevity depends on a number of things.

>>17371289
Neither can the understeering boosted prelude.....

>>17371297
im talking about whats been tlaked about this whole time. i was told in plain english you cant use aggressive gearing because the make low end torque and it would be stupid to use short gears. im here to tell you that you are absolutely fucking wrong on all acouts and an aggressive gear makes that car faster. end of story.

>>17371302
the prelude was double wishbones, some even had 4 wheel steering

>>17371308
Wow, gm, Ford, Dodge, Ferrari , and Lamborghini should really take a step back, fire all their r&d, and engineering departments and just hire a benchracer like you.

>>17371315
dude its /o/ logic. they havent ever driven powerful versions of these cars and just spew nonsense. my car accelerates in a straight line. barely any torque steer. preludes are quality built hondas whether people admit it or not.

>>17371315
Fail wheel drive

>>17371318
nothing to say. just admit when youre wrong dude.
they did it on purpose, clearly for a number of reasons, but what im saying is true.they do not have great gearing and thats why all the domestic guys hcange it. cant believe i have to argue about whether stock gearing on these cars is desireable for speed.

>>17371324
>live rear axle

>>17371280
>put 4.11's in it

we went from 4.11 to 3.73 in our 5.3l LS s10 and it felt faster. it was also way more usable and faster through corners

>running out of gear mid-corner

my 3.23 geared trans am took it off the line every time and walked it all the way

4.10s just spin on the street. 3.23 car hooks better and pulls longer/harder

>>17371315
the firebird is double wishbone


KYS

>>17371337
idc what it felt like. your car was not faster, thats nonsense and any domestic would tell you the same thing.

if you have traction issues, then resolve them. dont slow your car down to do it.

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>>17371328
>not owning both

my trans am turns in harder and has more lateral grip
>dem tires

>>17371327
You know mile drag is a thing, right? So is 1/8 mile. So tard, which is the right one. .of but wait, if I run 5.12's and top out at 120, that's good for a mile run, right? Right? But hey, I'm going "faster"

>>17371328
IRS. Thanks though

>>17371346
>not understanding relationship between rear end gearing, stall speed and the cam shaft profile.(and intake manifold design)

stock cam stock stall its slower with 4.11s. fact

>>17371360
this is the end of the line for me. now youre acting liek were talking about mile long races to make your point. my god.

your post reads like a child having a temper tantrum.

>>17371372
And yours reads like an autistic child

>>17371369
take any stock v8 msucle car. put 4.11's in it. you run faster 1/4 every time. end of story. no debate, no question, no nothing.

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>>17371345
no it isnt?
>>17371357
because that civic is an econobox you autist???

>>17371391
>because that civic is an econobox you autist???

>implying pigfat prelude is better than ed6 chassis

LOL

>>17371421
the type S is a proper sports coupe

>>17371439
>pigfat double wishbone handles better than lightweight double wishbone

this is not on par with /o/ logic

ef and miata are best handling cars

>>17371389
if its a manual trans only

>>17371461
nonsense

>>17371461
it's actually the reverse. with modern muscle car manual transmissions(T6060's), 3.73 is the ideal gear ratio.
a higher ratio than that hurts you in the quarter mile as you want to be at the top of 3rd gear when you pass the end of the quarter. Anything higher than that and you're shifting into 4th(probably not ideal unless you went to richmond gears or something and got your own close ratio gearset), and even then, you're just better off running 3.73's, having no hastle, and a strong gearset(the worm on anything above a 3.73 is tiny)

as for automatics, i can't speak much for the yf transmissions in the dodge, but the 8L90E's use a final drive of 2.77. That's probably engineered that way.

>>17359802
I don't mind weaboos as much but goddamnit BMWfags are literally cancer. Their shitbox gets toasted on the track so bad that they're literally in tears worst than 1945 lmao

>>17360923
The irony is I'm European but I'll take muscle over the shitboxes that we have around here. Germans tend to be cancerous both in politics and cars though.

>>17374086
>>17374074
t. asshurt FCA cuck

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>>17374181
Yes BMWs sure are expensive that's why pretty much every burger flipper out there is driving one.

>>17374200
Where did I state anything about costs or money, cuck.

>>17360054
Funny thing is, that is in equal performance to a SS 1LE. far from running circles around even mid-tier muscle apparently.

>random 5k$ motorcycle appears and overtakes
fucking carfags

jesus christ this may be the worst thread to ever grace /o/

even if his prelude actually is fast, which it very well may not be, you are all massive faggots for getting this assblasted

>>17374655
>gets in an accident that would be minor for a car
>dies

>>17374665
>car owner who caused the accident is cucked for all eternity to pay my family a fuckton of money

>>17374674
>implying that's desirable over having you alive
>implying family would rather be wealthy than have you around

nice self-worth anon

>>17374674
You're still dead, broseppie

>>17361490
Lol its literally the worst of the three

>>17375695
better performing in every fucking category except pillar visibility.
worst.

you are fucking retarded. here's your you.

>>17359788
>>17359802
they might be faster
but like, they're SO UGLY
the only decent looking ones were the 2008 stangs
Comaros look like dogshit now, the challenger always looked like dogshit and the charger
we don't talk about the charger

I'd be down with modern muscle cars if they didn't make them look so memey.

granted imports look like memes too but they have always been.

>>17360541
nice numbers but wtf is that "curve"

its like the edge of the saw in a swiss army knife.

probably too much boost for your setup

>>17360923
I'm a Jap but I fit that final category pretty well

>>17360033
NA prelude owner here

Fuck the haters, it's a fantastic car and doesn't look like shit

>200+ posts and no one noticed the "crowds" caption on the Mustang

>>17362598
Same field and position, there's nothing wrong with a fast Honda, people just like to hate

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>>17363060
Disregard comments about handling. The prelude is a very nice handling car.

Fuck driving in straight lines and fuck the retards here who only take hp into consideration because all they're doing is comparing numbers.

I'll be driving my car, enjoying it for what it is and what I can make out of it. Everyone in this thread bashing your dope prelude can suck a dick

AWD civic wagon cucks V8 Camaro Z28

https://youtu.be/lwJbv5oBGrA

Turbo K20 Civic cucks Ferarri 428, GTR and Z06

https://youtu.be/C4lDKxtJbWY

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>>17360541
thats bad ass for a little prelude
but like it falls off so hard at 7k
is that normal for those motors?
this is amarican v8, makes power all the way to 7600.

>>17377108
Bimmers look like absolute shit lad. Granted, the latest Mustang pretty much looks like a Bimmer. One drove past and my friends initially confused it for one, so you're completely right on that. 2008-2014 Mustangs were alright, but jesus once the 2015 hit it's literally a shitty German car. Why the fuck did Ford do this? Do they want it marketable to the chavs, bydlos and airheads who know nothing about cars so when they see a German brand they go 'muh luxury'?

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>>17378926
Pic fucking related.

>>17377642
not too much boost, you can run any amount of boost you want on any engine right up until it blows up from detonation/pre-ignition.

A friend of mine tuned the car and we were in a hurry, you have to methodically go through and set ignition/timing/afr/etc over every RPM range and boost level and its a difficult thing to do. Could definitely be better, but its good enough where its at.

>>17378091
>>17378130
thanks guys, you have the right attitude about it. The car is 10/10 fun. Preludes are underrated in almost every sense. I wont go on a super pro prelude rant (believe me, i really could), but just know that you easily have one of if not the best sport coupe (fwd) ever made. once these cars make power, its an absolute fucking joke how fun they are. Honda spared next to no expense making these at the time, and thats why they eventually nixed it. nearly $30k, unique chassis that wasnt interchangeble with anything they had at the time, a suspension that crushes even what they make in 2017, i could go on and on.
>>17378699
It falls off because this engine does not have vtec. 7k is a little better than i expected this engine to do honestly. An H22 would make power as long as you reasonably wanted it to, that just wasnt my goal for the car. Its a street car that is more for just having fun in the city than it is for full out drag racing, and i took the longer stroke (95mm vs 90.7mm) of the F22B to help move the heavy prelude in the low rpms and spool this turbo up a little bit. The powerband is great, i dont miss the H22 at all. The F22's also have iron sleeves as opposed to the FRM sleeves of the H22, so once i decide to build this bottom end and shoot for 450+, i wont have to sleeve, just bore it out to 86mm and go to town.

im not sure what engine that is, but it looks like a great powerband. Definitely not the norm for a V8 to spin that high. I wouldnt use that as gospel for the "american V8" powerband you should expect though.

>>17378699
also the engine apparently defies how torque and horsepower are calculated to not have a hp/torque crossover point of 5250 RPMS. never seen that before and would like to know whats going on.

look at any dyno and the lines intersect at 5250.
horsepower=rpm*torque/5250

im skeptical if thats even real. not that a v8 couldnt make power that high, they could, but that graph makes no sense at all to me.

>>17378699
lmao at a graph that runs for 2500 RPMs

wtf is this supposed to prove

>>17380284
..surely the graph just isnt smoothed? all "raw" dyno outputs are like that, the software smooths them out.

>>17380426
I did not know that and you're probably right. I know a lot of graphs have std smoothing or whatever at the top and i don't think mine does.

>>17380284
>im not sure what engine that is, but it looks like a great powerband. Definitely not the norm for a V8 to spin that high. I wouldnt use that as gospel for the "american V8" powerband you should expect though.

yeah i mean i really dont toat it as being standard American v8, just fun to start conversation. really its just my 2 k20a's joined at the crank, its just a coyote with bolt on and a mostly fully done suspension, i credit the power band to my lucky ass living like a mile away from a shop thats tuner spent like 8 hours logging my car.. and the manifold hah.

>>17380365
as for that its the old classic trick of having different lines for hp and tourqe on each side. got me firat time i glanced it too.

>>17380482
ah i see now. you dont see graphs setup like that very often.

wheres the rest of it? why only 2700 rpms or so on the graph?

>>17380486
okay so sad story i get to the shop as they are doing the last pool, hes fine tuning the top end i assume and to get more detail out of the curve has it set up like this, we had bad flooding in texas a while back and im guessing they could care less to buy a second printer just for the computer they do dynos on

tldr: i need to go over and ask for the file that would have equal hp/tourqe and the full rpm band

>>17380475
yeah having a tuner take his time on your setup is invaluable. having a torque band that straight is pretty cool, you should boost that muhfugguh and hold on tight.

good friend of mine has a 2016 RS3 phase 2 that makes like 715 or so at the crank and its an absolute fucking monster. car is totally unreal fast, walks off from my prelude like i slammed the brakes then hit a tree.

what kind of power can you make with full bolt ons with the coyote?

>>17380504
yeah id be interested to see what it does under 5000 rpms

>>17380505
i mean that is about as much as im going to make without either overpaying fpr cj manifold, or breaking seals but these 4v motor react well to boost so down the line that will probably be a thing, cams are very expensive since there are 4 of them and any kind of head work is a pain as well, but the stock bottom ends hold 700 regularly and that kind of the next step i guess.

>>17380511
you know same haha, i need to go in for inspection since the goverment frowns on my poor abused cats, im fairly sure im not passing any county emmision so when im in ill get a full dyno graph

>>17380517
what gear do you run?
do these bottom ends come forged from ford? thats a pretty stout power limit. You could piece together a turbo setup together much cheaper than using some whipple SC or something like that. keep that in mind if you go the boost route...for some reason domestic guys are allergic to turbos and the SC options you guys have are disgustingly expensive.

Should cost anymore to boost that mustang than it would any honda. You would probably need a nice custom turbo manifold to come together for the turbo but thats it.

>>17380524
Indiana ftw. emissions testing is fucking retarded and oppressive.

>>17380537
okay so hear me out i kind of fall inline with the mindset mostly because i want to put a trash turbo on my gutted miata, so then ill have a strip car and a track/drift/commuter??? car and both will be very diffrent experiences.

>>17380537
oh and sorry as far as gearing i have a 3.73 ratio, but man all it likes to do is roast my tires. i have 295s but acceleration in first is a pipe dream if im not on dr, i mean ive got most every moddification i can get to midigate wheel spin, bigger tyre, double adjustable panhard bar, tighter springs, only thing left is lower control arms.

>>17380561
they are definitely different experiences. I prefer turbos (obviously). theyll both get you the power, but the power rolls in very differently between the two, and you cant deny turbo noises are orgasmic. also keep in mind its wayyy easier to manipulate boost pressure with a turbo. I think its overall a more friendly setup for a guy that wants to tweak his car to drive however he wants. You can dictate everything about a powerband depending on the turbo you choose and where at on the compressor map that it operates.

I mainly just want to drive/see a turbo V8 because i honestly never have. i feel like it would be nothing short of hilarious and awesome/crazy to see a huge 5.0 blowing off 20 psi from a turbo.

/o/ has made me curious about miatas though and i bet theyre a blast with a little bit of power going through them.

i can see where youre coming from though

>>17360923
>while placing a V12 in his Murican supercar
I was actually just wondering why there aren't any American V12s in anything sporty or luxurious

>>17380586
i see alot of helion tts but like usually thats power territory where you start having to upgrade internals. i def like turbo noise over sc whine but both kind of have an awe to them.. i like to see my self as a renaissance man of car culture, past low riders i dig just about every thing, and even some lowriders i can appreciate the craftsmanship and work put into your vision. honestly my car is pussy shit, npt even a seal busted, but its kind of my only dependable car, the miata is the car i can tinker and blow shit up on. at least thats how i see it.

>>17380586
also best thing about miata right, i picked mine up from guy in my neighboorhood, piece of trash 500$ 180k, but like man it might make small power but all mods ive done are just thing ive riped off, so like convertible delete, door panels gone, ac gone, radio, and like ever trim piece and carpeted thing is gone, i havent put any money in yet but next step is replacing seats with something lighter, steering wheel, maybe a roll bar of some kind cause i can kind of feel the whole car flex on turns, but i mean i can just steal the poles they use for chain link fence and weld it to sub fram or some shit, its just great cause its trash and i dont care about it, also insurance is like 20 a month. its not a great car for your only car imo, but there is not better second car.

>>17380626
>>17380660
If i could find one for $500 id be all over it. I have an SR20DET in my garage and i feel like id end up finding a way to swap that in there. Can the stock miata engines handle 300+whp?

if you can strip them down to the sub-2500lb range i bet they rip.

>>17380585
youre never going to have 1st gear on street tires with any car that makes serious torque. kind of sucks, but oh well. Im sure you hook up in second. the only time you should really have to mash it in first and maintain traction anyways is at the track where youll be on radials.

god i wish i could run 295's on mine.

>>17380740
lol funny story it starts at 2200 lbs with everything ripped out and lighter seats its well under 2000 lbs.. and as far as i know miata fail randomly so some can handle 250 whp some cant handle stock lol

>>17380750
yeah 1st is my smokey gear, not like anyone gonna want to race under 40 where first gear runs out anyway. man im thinking about moving to 305s when these tires are gone.

>>17378926
Are you seriously implying that new BMW's are not luxurious?
Kill you are self

>>17380517
the pistons have issues beyond 650.

>>17381334
ill keep that in mind, if and when i do boost ill crack her open, throw in some ones of the forged variety, since i would already open up to swap in cam for blower

>>17377108
Literally every import looks worst. Every, damn, one. Nip aesthetics suck, european is a little better but not much.