/dmt/ daily manual thread

>>16909562
Think about it for a second. What's the point of blipping the throttle?

>>16909562
Doesn't matter so long as the clutch is in.

>>16909571
>muh autism
>muh superiority complex
>muh incapability of understanding how shit works after 1970
>muh boomer meme

b-b-but im a man for driving a manual car and all those cool guys on JewTube do it too

>/dmt/
What is my new favorite thread on /o/, and why is it this?

>>16909562
just before you drop the clutch and do a sick wheelspin.

File: verynice.jpg (24KB, 300x314px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 300x314px

>>16909571
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeoLRWCNGcA

I love how this guy has a video to explain literally every question on /o/

blip throttle, clutch in, blip throttle, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle, clutch in, blip throttle, in gear, blip throttle, clutch out, lift foot off accelerator because you've coasted to another red light

what the fuck is the point of this thread

why do americans feel the need to feel pride or superiority over driving manual

its literally nothing special, and you can't shift faster than a modern automatic.

t. euro

>>16909681
hello newfriend

>>16909590
why do hate your synchros?
it's high gear -> clutch in -> neutral -> clutch out -> blip -> clutch in -> higher gear -> clutch out

>>16909718
*lower gear

File: 3t.jpg (82KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 800x600px

>>16909681
I do feel "pride" in my truck man. Pride in knowing I can leave the thing running for a sec and nobody will drive it away. Pride in knowing that all my friends gave up asking to borrow the truck because nobody else can get the fucking thing moving.

File: BUTT.jpg (11KB, 293x212px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 293x212px

>>16909681

Second gear in a 90° turn and the car accelerates itself at the end of the turn before I even put my foot on the throttle. Why ?
I'm learning how to drive btw.

>When are you supposed to blip the throttle when downshifting?
when wanting to change into a lower gear without wanting to slow down to a road speed that would match the engine speed of the lower gear
so basically only when going fast, or wanting to go fast

>>16909591
Heel toeing is dumb of you aren't literally racing. But are you fucking stupid? What do you do? Do you downshift and then slowly let the clutch out, destroying your clutch and oversteering into a tree at the same time? Christ you kids are fucking stupid.

>>16909681
>you can't shift faster than a modern automatic
Challenge accepted.
I have to beat what, 0.04s inbetween gear shifts?

>>16909835
I feel left foot braking is better anyway. After I got comfortable in a stick, I realized I don't ever actually need brake and clutch at the same time. However, I occasionally need brake and throttle, and clutch and throttle goes without saying.

>>16909681
>its literally nothing special, and you can't shift faster than a modern automatic.
stop fucking benchracing.
unless you are completely, perfectly fucking flawless and drive your car so that not even for a second it is not at its absolute limit of grip, the few milliseconds every shift you don't do while braking do not matter.

>>16909877
This. Bring your automatic paddle shifted whatever to a track and I'll fucking crush you in my manual.

File: 1254172884282.jpg (41KB, 600x455px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 600x455px

>>16909798
>nobody else can get the fucking thing moving.
Get a new car, that disrespectful friend wants to drive it.
ok. He almost gets in then sees the stick and has a change of heart.

>revving when the clutch is pushed in
HA

>>16909974
Literally nothing wrong in doing that

>>16909959
Dude, even my friends who drive standard on the daily can't drive my truck.
God bless 3 on the tree and the stiffest clutch known to mankind.

>>16909718
There is literally no reason at all to do that on a modern car.

Higher gear > clutch in > blip throttle while shifting to lower gear > select lower gear > clutch out

File: muffled eurobeat playing in the distance.jpg (121KB, 704x480px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 704x480px

I've been trying to find the explanation for this phenomenon but each time I google it, it gives me hits about bicycles..

So in Takumi's duct tape death match where he couldn't steer, they talked about how he "steered by shifting the weight of the car." All it looks like he does is move the steering wheel a tiny bit, and shift. Can someone explain if this (1) actually works IRL, and (2) how and why this is achieved, theoretically or in reality.

>>16910537
He downshifted, interia drifted into the corner and controlled the drifting understeer with the throttle

Shingo didn't have this problem because ff shitboxes have lift-off oversteer, so he wouldn't need to turn too hard anyway

>>16910555
>FF
>lift off oversteer

holy christ shifting in a car seems so complicated compared to a motorcycle

>>16910582
It's the same thing with controls in different places and an H pattern, it's just shifting needs to a bit more precise to not jerk a car as opposed to a bike

>>16910576
ff cars are almost always defined by lift-off oversteer you dumb fuck

The understeer caused by applying throttle and turning is canceled out when you lift-off the throttle causing oversteer.

Not to be confused with what happens with MR and RR cars, but the result is the same: you gonna die nigga

>>16909835

>No heltoe
>Destroying clutch
>Being this autist

This is why /o/ is a shithole

>>16910638
Heel toe != rev matching

>>16910833
Heeltoe is just a more "advanced" form of rev matching.
Its purpose is the same (blipping throttle to rev match), but it's necessary if you want to rev match and brake at the same time.

You rev match when you are coasting, you heeltoe when you are braking and can't afford to lift the brake pedal for a moment.

At the end of the day, heeltoe and rev matching is exactly the same thing, just performed in different situations

>>16910582
>>16910597
It's because of the sequential vs h pattern shifters. Sequential you only have to go up or down, although in motorcycles you got your arms and legs vs just your legs in a car.

File: 1454366246362.jpg (19KB, 500x362px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 500x362px

>>16909562
> mfw pic is impossible with my gargantuan feet.

>>16910638
>>16910833
I don't know what either heeltoing or rev matching is.
I just shift when my engine sounds a certain way.

>>16910422
modern manuals still have synchromesh

>>16910936
>I have no idea what I'm talking about


I bet you will now point me to an uncle whose car totally destroyed the synchros after two years of absolutely not trash driving, showing me that the only logical conclusion is that no cars whatsoever have synchros that outlive the cars themselves if used without double clutching

>>16909562
>slowing down in 3rd
>get to 1100RPM
>green light
/o/, do you downshift or do you slowly crawl up to speed until you get back up to 2000?

the raisin i ask is because if i floor it when at 1100, the engine suffers but if i slowly inject, then it smoothly goes.

>>16910895
I have to do it backwards (heel on brake, toe on gas) because of my fuckhueg steering wheel

Why is driving manual so fun? I've had it for like 5 years and I'm still not tired of it.

>>16910969
Downshift definitely.

>>16910969
Downshift and rev match

>>16911052
>>16911060
Oh. Is it actually bad for the engine if I do this?

My general rule of thumb is that if it isn't chugging, I can just steadily accelerate. I do so to try and save as much gas as possible but if that's a bad idea then?

>>16911067
No it's not bad for the engine, your rule of thumb is right, you downshift if you want to go faster.
If you are not in a hurry and are in fuel-saving mode, then just leave it in that gear and slowly go up

>>16911104
Yeah that's what I do. I just don't accelerate really quickly and slowly press in until 2000RPM and downshift to 4th. I'm talking about cruising innacity and not rural roads or racing.

So when IS the engine suffering? Any time that it bumps back and forth?

Also, I accidentally redlined my vehicle the other day and kept it at redline point for like 5 seconds. How much did I fuck up?
I was trying to overtake and accidentally dropped it in 2nd instead of 4th by accident and was wondering why I coudln't accelerate anymore.

>>16909818
You're lugging and the engine is preventing stall. In most cars, even pretty old ones, if the rpms get too low, the engine will provide some small amount of torque to help prevent the engine from stalling. If you're going so slow that the engine is approaching idle speed, you should either be in a lower gear or have the clutch dipped.

>>16909824
>so basically only when going fast, or wanting to go fast

Not really no. If you're shifting down, without blipping the throttle, you'll always be slipping the clutch to bring the engine to speed to engage the gear, unless you just want until you're nearly stopped to engage the clutch.

It doesn't really matter when you're going 15mph and just putting it back into 2nd. But if you're going say 35mph and hit a steep hill in 4th gear, not blipping the throttle will result in either 1) letting the clutch out really slowly and slipping it for full couple seconds at speed or 2) having a big decelerating jerk like as though you just tapped the brakes, which is both unpleasant and bad for the clutch anyway.

More than anything, rev matching is just an easy way to lighten the load on your clutch and tranny, as well as a smoother overall driving experience.

>>16910953
nice argument, you convinced me that synchronizing your gearbox doesn't make sense. good debate.

>>16911120
>So when IS the engine suffering?

When it's being revved faster than its mechanical limit (the redline on the tachometer)
That's pretty much it, you can't ruin an engine even by repeatedly stalling it. You will however, ruin the clutch and if you feel a "bouncing" back and forth, that's likely the damping springs on the clutch itself which can break if you put too much stress on them.
Engines tend to get a little unbalanced at lower RPM too which causes the disconcerting vibration felt when about to stall. It's really nothing dangerous.

>>16910953
>>16910936
>>16910422
>>16909718
>>16909590
I see you are underaged, I have 300000 km on my current city-cuckbox(which I bought brand new for pennies, dealers will give huge discounts if you can just write a cheque, at least they did 20 years ago) and the synchronizer rings on the first two gears are clearly worn since they only go in when double clutching

It did take 250k km to bust them though, so it does not matter much if you drive low mileage cars and sell them before they get too old

>>16911135
>not rolling in fifth gear when doing 50km/h
That's how you save fuel

>>16911219
There's a thing that kicks in and stops me from going past red line, though.

Is it safe to say that if I occasionally redline it, it won't "die"?

>>16911253
The rev limiter will not let your engine die. You can mechanically overrev the engine and destroy it, but you can floor it in first all day and not blow your engine.

>>16911239
Sure that's fine. I didn't really say you shouldn't do that though. I'm talking about slowing down for a corner or coming to a stoplight.

>cruising
>traffic light ahead turns red
>downshift and rev match for engine braking
Am I doing it right?

>>16911230
>Synchros failed on that one car so all cars fail at the same time

Let's see who is underage here

>>16911374
That's what I do especially if the light turn green I'm at a good gear to accelerate again

>>16911386
>failed
That's called wear, it happens to metal parts when you use them a lot. You'll probably learn that word in high school

>>16911267
>You can mechanically overrev the engine and destroy it
Is there a way to do that besides money shifting?
Do diesels have rev limiters to bounce on? I drive a diesel box and it smells like burning oil when i have to redline it, never reached the point where it stops going up though

>>16911230
I see you are fucking retarded. I can make the exact same argument for the clutch, it will easily last your city cuck life if you drive an underpowered shitbox like a pussy. Then there's no point in heel-toe anyway. Clutch and Synchros will suffer when you push your car and don't rev match properly, that's why enthusiasts use heel-toe.
>but I don't need it xd
People like you make my blood boil.

>>16911588
When they wear too much they fail.
Wear a clutch too much and it fails, wear your brakes too much and they fail, wear your synchros too much and they fail, they stop doing what they were designed to do

Don't try to tell me how's high school, doesn't seem like you have ever seen the inside of one

>>16911682

Synchros will last the life of the car provided you don't drive like a retard.

The purpose of rev matching and using heel and toe in a car with synchros is to avoid throwing the balance of the car forward when you block shift down.

You only nees to rev match when doing stupid shifts like 4-2 or even 5-2.

File: 1475297499629.png (75KB, 211x173px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 211x173px

>>16911682
>Don't try to tell me how's high school, doesn't seem like you have ever seen the inside of one

>>16911253
Yeah, the rev limiter is there to prevent doing catastrophic damage from over-revving. All you did from redlining it for a few seconds in your previous post is probably just burned some carbon off your valves. Gave it the ol' Italian tune-up lol

>>16911750

You can theoretically downshift past the redline though and damage your engine.

When i heel toe i place my heel on the brake and blip with my toe.
Is this dangerous?

>>16911780
Most engines shouldnt explode from being over revved a couple times in there life, or atleast not any modern dual cam engine.

>>16911798
If its comfortable to you its fine, but in an emergancy you might not be able to apply enough/modulate pressure on the brake

>>16911714
You are right, But If you go back the chain of replies you'll find that the thing we were talking about was actually double-clutching, which indeed saves a tiny bit of load on the synchros.
My point, however, was that synchros outlast the car most of the time even if you never ever do a single double clutch, of course the retard then jumped at me saying that one car had its synchros fail at several hundred thousands km so, by extension, all cars must do the same and double clutching is the only way to prevent such catastrophic premature failure.

Double clutching, rev matching and heel toeing are completely unnecessary in modern vehicles, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it for the sake of enjoyment (heel toeing is actually pretty efficient when you want to go sanic fast) or to develop a skill that may or may not be useful when driving, but this whole idea that they can save you years and tens of thousands of miles of life out of clutches and synchros is just a retarded way to seem knowledgeable without admitting that it's purely a thing done for enjoyment and for skill development, which, again, would be something I have no reason to argue against.

There is no argument to be had here. If those techniques were actually necessary for the normal operation of today's cars, they would teach you about them in driving schools and in user's manuals.

How many RPMs should I be driving at.

I'm learning on a WRX and find I seem to be around 3000 rpm

when I drive my auto Yaris it seems to be constantly 1500rpm wtf lol

>>16911948

>what is gear ratio the post.

>>16911948
>Power band
Between max torque and max hp, use google to find yours
Keep it in there to go faster

If you're just going somewhere, shift up when you reach 2k

>>16909571
smoother ride, less stress on the clutch (this one is not really important, clutch can handle way more than slow connecting while engine revs lower than it should)

it's not really important in everyday driving, you don't really downshift super fast while braking at almost 100% grip while going 50kmph in the city. that being said, it feels nice to use it, braking goes way smoother even if you uselessly downshift in your daily commute

What autistic retard made this pic


The toes blip the throttle the heel brakes

Enjoy not knowing how to drive fuck boys

My heel toe is flawless

>>16911948
You kind of have to find what feels best when you're just cruising. 2000-2500 is the sweet spot in my Golf Any lower and it feels pretty luggy, and above 3k it gets bretty loud.

>>16912243
I think that was a rethorical question m8

File: cuck garbage.jpg (93KB, 528x693px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 528x693px

Quick question.

How the FUCK did people used to heel-toe in cars with no ABS?

>>16912484
is she drinking piss?

File: download.png (7KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 225x225px

>>16909562
>tfw have to double clutch 3rd everytime

Also how do i downshift into 3rd? Even if I double clutch it grinds...

Alright guys so here's my question:

Picked up a 10' SS Camaro three months ago, learned to handle hills and all pretty well now. So I've been wondering, downshifting, do I clutch, begin to throttle and pull into the gear I want?

Also, if I'm in say neutral and coasting up to a redlight, can I clutch and gas while I pull into the gear I want? I want to prevent that jump I get from pulling it into a gear then gassing.

>>16909798
My dad has a '68 GMC with a 3-speed on the column he's in the process of restoring. It's so awesome. I tried driving it before he fixed the linkage and stalled out at a red light because it would get stuck if you didn't massage it a certain way. I really want to drive it now that it's been fixed.

File: 5rgO2FG.jpg (40KB, 474x315px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 474x315px

>Steps to git gud at stick

Step 0(Empty space)
>Find an empty parking lot or somewhere with lots of space for you to fuck around
>Even better if it has a flat section and a slight hill somewhere
>Find spectators so they can laugh as you fail to do the next steps

Step1 (Learn bite point)
>let out clutch slowly till car starts to creep forward
>Get car moving on flat surface without using throttle
>Do this without stalling out

Step 2 (Throttle control)
>Now that you know where clutch grabs
>Same as step one but use throttle this time
>Slowly add throttle as you are letting clutch out (how much throttle depends car to car)
>Repeat until you can go from stopped to moving without being jerky as fuck

Step 3 (Hill Starts)
>Learn to do step 2 while on an incline without rolling backwards
>This is pretty much the same as step 2 but you will roll backwards if you are not fast enough
>add throttle while getting to bite point quickly

(Bitchmode Hillstarts)
>Usehandbrake to prevent rolling backwards
>Same as step 3

Step 4 (Downshifting)
>Learn what the RPM difference between gears
>Learn to blip throttle for desired RPM
>Match RPM with gear you want
>Go down 1 gear (5th-4th/4th-3rd)
>I'm almost a racecar driver mode down 2 gears on one blip
>Practice till you can do this not jerky as fuck

Step 5(Pracetice Practice Practice)
>Go drive
>Go drive more
>Keep doing all these things till you can do them without thinking about it

Step 6 (I'm fucking Dagumi now)
>Now that you can drive and are not jerky as fuck
>Heel Toe Dopwnshift
>Same as step 4
>Left half of ball of foot on brake
>While pushing brake either roll side of foot to blip throttle or twist and use heel to blip throttle (depends on car and pedal distance/setup) do whatever works for you there isnt a right way to do it
>Get the gear you want
>you now down a gear/slowed down and ready to go WOT out of the turn.
>foot off brake and onto throttle

I dont really get this shit

Whats wrong with

>clutch+brake until desired speed is archieved
>put in gear
>throttle to desired rev, release clutch

Why do you need to rev while braking? What do you lose those couple microseconds where the car is rolling with pushed clutch?

>>16909835
heel toeing is just rev matching a down shift while tapping the brakes. why is that only for racing? Mr cool guy with his functioning synchros over here

I'm just learning how to do this, how quickly are you supposed to let out the clutch? I know riding it too slow will wear it out but I can't start properly just dumping it, am I supposed to just get gud?
Also, my car sometimes is "jumpy" when accelerating in first gear, generally around 2.5 - 3k rpm and up, it doesn't happen always though, what could be the cause and should I be worried?

Anwering OP's question:

>slow down
>clutch in, blip, clutch out, clutch in again, blip, clutch out, clutch in, blip, shift to lower gear, clutch out, clutch in, clutch out, blip, clutch in, clutch out, continue driving

It's really that complicated.

>>16914570
I chuckled

>>16914533
a couple of microseconds

Am I supposed to be sort of riding the clutch when getting the car to go? Slowly releasing clutch while giving adequate gas? I hear you have to be extra careful with AWD cars like a WRX in my case

>>16914563
It's not only for racing, but it's just entirely unnecessary for any other application.

In everyday traffic, if you don't have enough time to lazily brake, put left foot on the clutch, and pull your right foot off to blip before coming off the clutch and getting back on the accelerator you need to stop fucking tailgating.

Basically you can do the hokey pokey every time you downshift and never need to heel-toe.. unless you're driving a classic from the 40s-50s or some shit. If you're on this board, you're probably 50 years (at least) too young for that.

>>16914589
you shouldn't need to ride it no. find the bite and let it out smooth and quick

>>16914598
While giving gas AT the bite point?

>>16914589
Yes, slipping the clutch a little is how you make up the difference between your engine(spinning) and the road (not moving)

>>16914596
oh whatever. no one is heel toeing in straightline traffic anon.

>>16914647
I mean the only other times I heel-toe are when I want to do hektik skidz.

Someone asked a question. It was answered.

>>16914647
And yes, they are. It shouldn't surprise you that they drive FR-S/BRZ. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38439

>>16912484
Its called getting gud

Do you know when you rev match and the gearstick gets sucked into gear? Isn't this only supposed to happen when double clutching? Can anyone explain the mechanics of this?
Or do newer cars automagically rev match the (input shaft?) when you rev match without double clutching?

>>16916304
synchros?

>>16914671
no, really, they're not.
and anyone saying they do is just a fuckwit

>>16912484
it was called "being in control of the car"

>>16909681
>you can't shift faster than a modern automatic.
Modern automatics are a joke, only normies drive them.

>>16916304
The point of double clutching is exactly to rev match the gearbox shafts. It's the only way to change gears when you have an unsynchronized transmission or a synchronized one with some broken synchros, but that job is the job of the synchros now, and have been for a few decades.

There is no point in double clutching if your synchronized transmission is in shape. Using the correct gearbox oil is far more important for synchro health that double clutching will ever be, for example.

It's still a useful skill to develop in the odd case that you may find yourself with one or more failed synchros in the future, but don't fool yourself into thinking double clutching is even remotely useful in everyday life with a working transmission.

I used to clutch, blip, shift, release clutch but I found it's better to shift before the little blip.

I do 2 blips for 2nd gear. I should just do a long one but it sounds more fun.

>>16912484
Why are you slamming on the brakes?

>>16910910
That's really all you need, unless you're some chink drifting cars for the Yakuza. I personally shift between 2000-3000 RPM depending on the gear, I like to milk a bit more torque out of the lower gears, so I wait until 3k for gears 1-3.

>>16916576
>tfw my 4th gear syncro is busted or mismatching so it grinds
>tfw double clutching makes it smooth as butter

>>16916312
>>16916576
My question is more specific. When you double clutch rev match the gearstick has no resistance to get into gear, right? Does that also happen when you only rev match with the clutch?
I think the previous cars that I've driven had some resistance to get into gear without double clutching (not an abnormal amount of resistance, just the usual one).
With the newer car (2015), I can simply rev match with the clutch and the resistance disappears.

>>16918240
That's the whole point of double clutching, you should get almost no resistance when doing that, because the resistance you usually feel is just the synchro doing its job. If you do that with the clutch, the synchro has no job to do so the gear goes right in.

File: 1402847043457.jpg (92KB, 960x960px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 960x960px

>>16909562
>heel-toe-ing on public roads
>never drives on a track

>>16918609
But this newer car also has almost no resistance when I rev match and clutch only once (not double clutching). What could explain this?

>>16918840
Bump for engineers.

>>16909562
>A good driver does not actually remember the gear he is on. He knows the way the car responds to and works the gears accordingly. I strongly believe that you should know your car the way you know yourselves and you would never ask this question. If you are on the 4th Gear and you feel that you actually do not need so much of power rushing in, that is when you change it. While, you can go past 100 in 4th it is the drivers decision to change it.
>A good driver does not actually remember the gear he is on.
what does this mean?

>>16918840
Really good synchros

>>16920062
Stupid autistic shit for people who want to pretend using a manual is anything but a trivial and mundane thing

Is it bad to ride the clutch in reverse? I can't just fully dump clutch in reverse without going faster than I want, and trying to go slow just stalls

>>16922844
Unless you have to go a mile in reverse, it's fine if you do it just to maneuver into a parking spot

just adjusted my clutch cable lads. Before it was too low, while i like having to push the clutch all the way in sometimes the gears would grind. Now i have it so the biting point is pretty much exactly in thew middle.

Maybe for my next car ill have one with a hydraulic system so i can set it so the clutch bites as soon as the pedal is lifed just a fraction.

Why do I always panick/get nervous stop/starting behind someone? I've had my first manual for 2-3 weeks now(forget the exact date) and I haven't stalled at all driving it since the first week but it's still something that's in the back of my head all the time and making me nervous.

Why am I such a faggot /o/?

>>16923080
You can't set anything in a hydraulic clutch, it's self adjusting and will stay pretty much the same up to when the clutch is too worn out to work

>>16923094
really? been driving stick for 2 months and feel more nervous being first in line since my starts are still a bit slow

or whenever I stop I always release the brake quickly to see if I roll back a bit then if someone is behind me I get nervous for when the green light is about to start

when I come to a stop at a light I usually downshift then slowly let my foot off the clutch to engine brake, is this bad for the clutch or engine? If I need to downshift but keep my speed I go to the gear I want then blip the throttle to the correct RPM's and release this is a correct technique for rev matching yes? Please don't be cocks I just learned how to rev match I wanna make sure I'm doing It properly and I always engine brake I wanna make sure I'm doing then correctly too

>>16923134
That's why I hammer down in first, might start slow, but I'm not gonna accelerate slowly :^)

Is it bad to just go into neutral approaching a stop and then just braking?

>>16923186
nah man that's perfectly fine

>>16923186
No, the only remotely bad thing that happens is that you burn a tiny bit more fuel than if you were coasting with a gear engaged.
That's it, no harm is done to anything if you slow down in neutral

>>16923186
if you put it in neutral you have no way of accelerating if you have to. if you downshift so you're always in the correct gear you can. you also use more fuel

Question: is it ever normal to be in 5th gear at 70mph and the engine to be pushing 4k RiPpeMs? Is on a v4 motorcycle

File: tumblr_oc7np9yxIy1qdkle0o1_1280.jpg (213KB, 1280x853px) Image search: [Google]

213KB, 1280x853px

>tfw driving license test next week

Today one of my instructor (who I never had before) told me to use the throttle to park and not just the bitting point (diesel car). No I'm panicking because I'm not used to do it and I feel I won't be able to control the speed like before.
Did they taught me wrong by not using the throttle ?

>>16923248
>you burn a tiny bit more fuel than if you were coasting with a gear engaged
Wait, what? I thought engine braking saved a shitload of fuel.

>>16923293
I have no idea what you're trying to ask, use the throttle to park?

>>16923293
It doesn't matter really. If the shitbox stalls with just the biting point because it's that weak of a motor then yes you need throttle. If you're in something with more horsepower, using the throttle uncarefully will result in you crashing into something.

Instructors like to think their way is the only way, they're more guidelines really.

>>16923337
It really depends, if you coast for miles on the highway then yes, you can save a lot of fuel.
Since the guy asked about slowing down to a stop I assumed he was talking about city driving where the fuel savings are way lower, to the point of being negligible.
Not to mention the fact that sometimes the traffic condition doesn't allow you to slow down with the engine alone because it will disrupt the flow too much so you are pretty much always on the brakes anyway

File: 1489438782693.gif (3MB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 200x200px

>>16914447

>>16914570
I think your instruction manual is defective.

>>16914647
>>16916549
Wrong. It's just a natural part of driving a manual over time if you're not a retard.

When first started driving manual I obviously never did shit like that, but I started doing all sorts of rev matching and heel-toeing before I saw videos and retarded 4chan threads about it, because if you're a good driver, you just intuitively begin to understand how to manipulate all aspects of the car to drive comfortably and smoothly

>>16920062
>>16921945
Whoever said that has a bit of a point, though he did say it in a somewhat autistic way.
Basically what he is getting at is that, a good driver doesn't have to think about something like the gear they're in relative to their speed. This is true. When you become competent and very comfortable when driving, you shouldn't be thinking to yourself 'Okay now I'm passing 35mph, so I will shift in 4th gear,' they will just naturally shift into 4th gear when it feels appropriate. Flat ground, maybe 4th at 35mph, up a hill maybe 45. Accelerating on the hwy, 50 - 60? Downhill, maybe 25.

The point is, a good driver isn't following a set of 'rules' in his head for when to do things, he just does them when it feels appropriate. Like you don't have a set speed at which you choose to switch from always one foot on the ground (walking/power walking) to leaping (jogging/running), it's just when it feels comfortable and appropriate.

>>16923538
Yeah but that is something you will develop anyway when driving. I've been driving manuals since I got my license 11 years ago and I'm not even looking at my dash anymore when shifting gears, once you know the car and how it responds then it becomes second nature.

Again, I don't think this means being a good driver, it's just the normal way to drive after you become accustomed to your car. You can shift gears using your ears all the time and still be a shit driver.

The way it was wrote makes it look like it's some kind of obscure advanced skill that only the best drivers can learn, and usually this stuff comes from someone who can't accept that driving manuals is an absolutely trivial task and has to use anything to make it seem like they are operating a goddamn shuttle every time they drive.

It's just autistic shit, pure and simple.
Everyone who tries to tell you that driving manual is some kind of next level skill is full of shit and you only see him talking like that with people who drive automatics or are just starting to learn manuals, because anyone who drove a manual for more than a few months will know that there is nothing special in driving stick as far as the skill level goes

Wat do about getting into first with cars behind me? I panic a lot.

>>16923722
Clutch and shift, then jam on the throttle while lifting off the clutch.

>>16909562
Why is there a need to have a thread about manual what's so special about it??

>>16923960
There is nothing special, but a lot of people are learning and have questions about it.

Thankfully it has not developed in an auto vs manual or a circle jerk yet

>>16923159
can anyone just tell me if I'm doing this shit correctly please

>>16923159
You don't have to downshift to stop, use engine brake and foot brake at the same time (for the long life of the car), when the engine begins to rattle put it in neutral and come to a full stop with the foot brake. Slipping the clutch as a habit is bad for the transmission, you should do it only when you go from neutral to 1st to start off. The rev matching is ok.

>>16924114
thank you, I thought the way I was doing it was engine braking but it's just slipping the clutch and ruining it good thing I found out sooner than later

>>16923159
when I come to a red light I press the clutch in then start to lightly apply the brakes. then once I stop I put the stick back in 1st if I think we will be moving soon or to N if I think it will be a while

is that bad that I never go down through the gears.

>>16924195
I don't think so it just adds more wear to the brakes but those are easy and cheap to fix

Automatic driver here. Really enjoy driving and want to get a little more into cars. I've been told I can learn manual transmission in a day.

Will be getting a new car before year end, i am wondering if its worth learning and making the switch to manual with this future purchase? I currently drive a BMW 128i coupe.

>>16924195
see
>>16924114
engine break is a thing you know
it's good to form a habit of it, so if your brakes begin to soften up (from heating when breaking a lot downhill) you won't have to panic as much

>>16924224
it's a learn to ride a bicycle kind of thing, once you get the hang of it you'll be ok
literally every dumb blonde chick can drive their shitty suzuki swift with stick shift in eu

>>16909681
You have an F1 paddle box in your modern car?

>>16924233
how do you engine brake?

is that just when you let it slow down naturally by getting your foot off the gas?

>>16924224
>I've been told I can learn manual transmission in a day

people just say this too look like sick cunts.

I'm the dude that has been driving manual for about 2 months.

was driving on my own after about 3 sessions with someone but boy after that it was a bit of a nightmare. probably wouldn't say I got somewhat comfortable with it until a month the in.

I'm glad I did it though. I'm still learning and trying to get better at smaller things.

I would say hillstarts are probably the hardest thing to do. after that reversing because the way you do it is different than an automatic.

in a manual reversing goes way faster than you were ever used to so you gotta learn to use the clutch to control the speed a bit better.

but yeah once you get the hang of driving in 1st and reverse and doing incline starts then you should be fine.

>>16924388
yes, exactly.
you can imagine it as friction from the cylinders and the energy deficit from moving the axis and the wheels. so without gas it slows itself down. (sorry i can't explain it properly)

>>16912307
2.5? Me too, damn I know what you mean, the new EA888 1.8 turbo has a better powerband:/

>>16914324
Yeah you can that's how I started to learn to Rev match, I would literally push the throttle to the spot I knew was good and let the clutch out. Once I knew the right revs/gears/speeds I learned to quickly blip and now it's great, I really don't heel-toe tho

>>16914533
Microseconds? If that's all it takes you then you ARE rev-matching

>>16914568
That's normal in my car

>>16924388
Yeah, it's just when you let off the throttle. Since the throttle is essentially closed, the engine can't breathe freely; it takes a lot of energy to get air into the cylinder as it expands. (Imagine breathing through a straw - that's essentially what the engine is doing.) Since you're not giving it any gas, that energy comes out of the kinetic energy of the car, so the car slows down.

>be me
>size 14 feet
>have truck with dumb pedal positions
>gas pedal is significantly further down than brake
>can't have toe in brake and reach gas with heel

How do heel toe shift

>>16925043
It's more the fact that the engine is compressing air that won't expand afterwards that creates the most force rather than the difficult suction.
No fuel is being injected so all the work done to compress the air is wasted as there is no ignition and expansion to push the pistons down

>>16924421
Just roll with the clutch when you're reversing

Will riding the clutch in reverse damage it? I ease mine out to the grab point and back out with it using it and the brakes, throw it into manual when im good. Am I fucking up?

>>16925350
you cant reverse without riding or else you'll slam into shit

>>16925311
You're thinking of a compression/Jake brake, which opens the exhaust valve during the combustion stroke.

A typical gasoline engine in a typical passenger car still has a normal combustion stroke, albeit with less fuel. In the absence of a throttled intake, the air in the cylinder essentially acts as a spring during the compression->combustion strokes; there's no net change in energy.

>>16924388
>>16925043
I should add to my previous post a piece of information that you ought to be able to deduce yourself: since the engine braking effect is a result of the air flowing through the throttle, pulling more air through the throttle increases the magnitude of the effect. Thus, shifting into a lower gear - giving you a higher engine speed for a given wheel speed - will increase the braking effect (and shifting into a higher gear will decrease the effect). Besides accelerating, lower gears aren't just for going up steep hills - they're also for going down them.

>>16925464
No no wait, when you are off the throttle in a car with EFI there is no fuel being injected at all. I don't know how this procedure is called in English, in my language it translates into "cut off". It has been like this for decades.

Since there is no fuel, there is no combustion phase, the piston simply goes down because it's being driven by the wheels, but it lost energy compressing the air when it went up, which is what eventually causes the most of the deceleration you feel when engine braking.

The only time when fuel is being injected off-throttle is when engine speed is close to idle so it doesn't stall.
In some poorly sound-proofed cars you can even hear the injectors stopping and starting again at near idle.

Diesels don't have a throttle body, yet they engine brake even harder than gas engines despite breathing as much air as they want. It's because they are compressing air and a greater compression ratio and there is no ignition to give energy back to the pistons.

>>16924421
>>16925325
This guy gets it. I never use the gas in reverse just let the clutch out until you start moving and use just that. You shouldn't need to use gas with the accelerator unless you're like hauling ass in reverse because you missed something or idk what.

>>16925350
was just about to ask this.

I'm more concerned when I need to reverse a longer distance. eg. my sister's driveway is narrow and maybe a good 10+ metres long.

is it bad that when I back in or out of it I have my foot slightly on the accelerator then use the clutch to control the speed (push the clutch in more to slow down. lift it up a bit to speed up or get going. basically sort of feathering the clutch a bit up and down)

like that's how I do it in car parks and slow manuvures

>>16925572

Was wondering the same thing

Also, does it hurt to inch forward when say parking by easing on the clutch and lightly riding it? What constitutes riding the clutch?

>>16925582
Riding the clutch is when you are driving and you rest your left foot on the clutch pedal, potentially causing unnecessary slippage that could be so small that you won't hear it, but big enough that it will seriously harm your friction plates in the long run.

What you do when reversing is just doing what the clutch was intended to do. It's designed to slip, so don't lose sleep if you let it slip a bit to back up into a driveway.

>>16925554
>No no wait, when you are off the throttle in a car with EFI there is no fuel being injected at all. I don't know how this procedure is called in English, in my language it translates into "cut off". It has been like this for decades.
-flat what-
They run lean, but they're still pumping fuel into the cylinder, even a diesel. There's always a minimum amount of fuel pressure and EFI car will use, this is always a non-zero number. Hybrids will flat out cut the engine.
>Diesels don't have a throttle body, yet they engine brake even harder than gas engines despite breathing as much air as they want. It's because they are compressing air and a greater compression ratio and there is no ignition to give energy back to the pistons.
Correct. And because there is so little fuel, that they don't combust as quickly as normal, so compression has to be increased before ignition/detonation.

Russki?

>>16925554
You're right, injected engines can cut off the fuel supply when it isn't needed. However, there is still a combustion stroke even though there is no combustion occurring - the cylinder still expands with both valves closed. It still has the normal four strokes:
> intake stroke - intake valve open, exhaust valve closed, cylinder expanding - fresh air (without fuel) enters
> compression stroke - intake valve closed, exhaust valve closed, cylinder contracting - fresh air is compressed
> combustion stroke - intake valve closed, exhaust valve closed, cylinder expanding - fresh air expands again
> exhaust stroke - intake valve closed, exhaust valve open, cylinder contracting - fresh air leaves
You see that the air is compressed and then expands again, so it acts as a pneumatic spring. Energy is stored when it is compressed and then released when it expands again. There is no net loss of energy from the compression and expansion. The engine braking effect comes from the constriction in the intake manifold, from the throttle cutting off the air supply, forcing the engine to suck harder during the intake stroke.

Diesels brake under an entirely different principle, which is what you're describing. A diesel engine can be fitted with a mechanism that opens the exhaust valve during what would normally be the combustion stroke so that the energy that is stored in the compressed air during the compression stroke gets dumped into the exhaust stream instead of being released back into the crankshaft during the combustion stroke. This mechanism is often installed on diesel engines on big trucks, but is not found on gasoline engines in normal cars.

You are right that both of these are often called "engine braking" in English. However, technically speaking, in English "engine braking" only properly refers to the throttling effect in gasoline engines. The proper English term for what diesels do is "compression-release braking" (sometimes "Jake brake").

>>16925630
Nah man I have books that explain this shit, I'm in bed right now so I won't look for the specific paragraphs because fuck that.

Anyway, when I worked at a shop I used to install LPG kits and tune them. The LPG kits we installed used a little black box that intercepted the gas injectors signals and used it for a few things.
It was used mainly to time when and how much LPG to inject at any given time, but it was also an emulator to let the original ECU think the original gas injectors were still firing even if they were actually off because the engine was running on LPG, this was an easy way to avoid having the CEL turning on and it saved money on more complex electronics.

When you tune those kits, you get to see a lot of data from the engine, including injection time (called TONinj, as per Time ON Injector) and there is a specific step in the tuning process for the "cut off" strategy that I told you about before because LPG injectors usually have to be fired a bit sooner than gas injectors to avoid stalling.
You get to see the data live when you do that and all the cars I installed those kits on had the TONinj value go to zero whenever the engine is above idle and off-throttle.

They don't run lean, they don't run at all, the engine pumps simple air when you are coasting, I'm absolutely 100% sure about this.

Take an OBD reader, hook it to your car, find the injection data and you will see this for yourself

>>16925655
Explain how my car, which is a diesel with no throttle body and no mechanisms on the exhaust valves can engine brake harder than the same car, with the same gearbox, but with a gas engine.

I'm not throwing random examples here. I opened up my engine and I saw what's in there and I've driven the same car with a gas engine and the same gearbox. My car engine brakes harder than the gas car.

By your logic my car shouldn't engine brake at all, it should only slow down by frictions alone.

>>16925739
Well first of all what kind of car are we talking about, fampai?

>>16909562

What to do if you only have one foot?

>>16925920
buy an automatic

>>16923293
>Did they taught me wrong by not using the throttle
no but clearly the school system did with that grammar

Will it hurt the clutch if I'm easing it out very slow or at the bite point to move slowly forward say to inch forward in a parking lot, or inch forward in traffic?

>>16925952

K.

File: autism stick.jpg (149KB, 525x808px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 525x808px

>>16909562

>amerifats

What do in bumper to bumper traffic?
Living in Bay Area is a hell gaunlet for this. How bad is it to ride the clutch?

>>16925655

>Energy is stored when it is compressed and then released when it expands again. There is no net loss of energy from the compression and expansion

Yeah..No. a lot of energy is definitely lost to heat because of frictions and because things get hot when compressed. Heat is absorbed by the engine and then lost somewhere else, thus causing a net loss of energy.

>>16927621
Compression in a gasoline engine is typically considered to be an adiabatic process. Yes, the air is heated up during compression, but significant amounts of heat heat are not transferred out of the air into the engine block. During the combustion stroke, when no fuel is present, the air cools down again as it expands again.

>>16923285
My miata does that essentially.

File: d5bcb7b4399ad3f0037badd5fc074fec864b4fd5472f1a65ea6bff637bb7d7ab_1.jpg (97KB, 640x712px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 640x712px

>>16912494