U.S. Cars Must Get 55 MPG By 2025. Corporate Average Fuel Economy

We're going to end up like Cuba with people driving 50 year old shitboxes because nobody can afford a new car.

>>16904714
Mazda already makes a hybrid 3 that gets 80mph.
Plus all their tech is making huge strides in efficiency and power.
Turbos cant make good fuel economy. Thats been proven over and over.
Toyota and mazda will dominate.
Chevy likely will too with their electric cars.

>>16904723
>mph
mpg

>>16904714

They had cars that could do this. The CRX HF and the Geo Metro. The problem is now they'll want cars that get 55 mpg that also have all the government mandated bullshit along with power steering, a/c, and all the dumb power stuff that used to be options but now you can't escape.

>>16904737
>Mandatory reverse cameras
Fuck my shit up

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>>16904723
OP', Hybrid with ultra cap (instead of battery) regenerative braking charges it. Engine stops at stop lights and stop signs, runs of electric motor till up to speed.... Basically a Prius with a capacitor instead of a battery,
No full electric mode... but 55mpg

They could get 55mpg if they would go back to making cars that didn't weigh >3500 pounds.

>>16904737
>power steering
>bullshit

>>16904714
it will easily happen

if a manufacturer is too incompetent to build a car to meet those reqs they dont deserve to sell cars here

They'll build hybrids with huge batteries to carry the car through the the test mostly on electric power. It's how they pass the european test.

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>>16904751
This, been thinking about Baslat allot. Made a thread about it a while back, could reduce weight all natural easier to work with than carbon fiber, also cheaper.
http://basalt.today/tags/basalt-fiber-insulation/

>>16904766
found the millennial

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>>16904783

>you're a millenial for pointing out that power steering has been a standard feature (not an option) on virtually every consumer car since the late 90's

>>16904766
theres a surprising amount of boomers on here I think

they all want cars to be like 50 year old pieces o shit

>>16904803
I can see it now
>stopped at a red light
>have to make a turn
>having to put all your weight into turning the car because you have some 4k lbs on your steering column to push

>2025 honda civic
>I'm so totally glad I'm having such a hard time turning my wheels at a stop, thank god I didn't put 20 bucks into that power steering system
>its for fucking babbies
>*pulls muscle turning steering wheel*

>>16904809
or
>go any speed above 0mph
>steering becomes exponentially easier

>also what is gearing

>>16904845
>purposely doing something harder for no fucking reason

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Basalt is used mostly for rebar , concrete reinforcement. But would be great for automotive.
>wait WTF is there a shit posting war going on here?

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https://www.slideshare.net/sharadah22/basalt-fibre

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>>16904723
But the problem is people have to buy a number of those hybrids to average out those who buy Miatas or other cars. People would rather buy trucks, SUVs, minivans, or muscle cars before even considering a shitty cuck hybrid.

>>16904857
I'm here to tell you that driving a ~2000lb car with no power steering is comparable to a 6000lb car with the right gearing
>its not hard unless you're an effete faggot
>additionally the CIA can't turn off your shitty electric power steering and kill you if you don't have it

>>16904882
People buy the shit out of hybrids and EVs.
Are you thick?

>>16904857
But it isn't for no fucking reason you idiot.
It's because it's perfectly manageable without having a needless gadget attached as one more thing to go wrong.

>>16904883
power steering was invented to turn your wheels no matter the speed so you don't need to do that stupid shit

>its perfectly manageable because I said so even though every car has it

>one more thing to go wrong
hardly its a simple fucking hydraulic pump or an electric motor even if it fails the steering still works

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>>16904714

Important to remember that the CAFE mpgs are different to EPA advertised mpgs. When CAFE says 36mpg, that is equivalent to 27mpg advertised.

This is because the CAFE uses an old 1970s methodology, while EPA uses a more authentic real world conditions test.

The 55mpg that they want by 2025 is actually only 39mpg.

They'll just make an electric suburban. It will count for 600 mpg and they'll keep making SUV and trucks.

>>16904722
>2025-50=1985
>we'll all be driving 80's Jap wedgeboxes and malaise-era 150hp barges
Fuck yeah, I can deal with this.

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>>16904906
>This is because the CAFE uses an old 1970s methodology, while EPA uses a more authentic real world conditions test.

for what reason

>>16904887
oh boy 2% market share so popular

>>16904900
>power steering was invented to turn your wheels no matter the speed
so were steering boxes and gears
want to guess which one is less failure prone?
>also turning your wheels when stopped is completely retarded and wears them down at mach 7

>gearing
>stupid shit

oh, you're just all around retarded
don't forget to get a car with parallel park assist, having to control your car is for fags :^)

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>>16904906
>WAIT WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?
so confused.....

>>16904915
Or no wait my math is retarded, that would be '75. So we get to go back to 7.5L V8s making 100hp.

BRING IT ON FAGETS

>>16904916
CAFE was created as a reaction to the oil embargo, and they made up a test that they have just never changed.

EPA changes their measurements all the time.

>>16904917
Youre high dude.
I can turn a corner without seeing a prius.
Not to mention leaf, civic, tesla, volt, etc etc

>basalt fibers
huh. neat!

>>16904938
Not everyone lives in SF
Go look at the actual US stats

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>>16904741
>Basically a Prius with a capacitor
...a FLUX capacitor?

>>16904945
Ok
>hybrid electric vehicles in the United States, with over 4 million units sold through April 2016, is the second largest in the world after Japan (over 5 million). American sales of hybrid electric vehicles represent about 36% of the more than 11 million hybrid sold worldwide through April 2016.

>>16904714
Turbocharged hybrid.

>>16904714

Silly american, Europe is pretty serious about banning the sale of new ICE cars by 2025.

>>16904963
And now let's actually look at the relevant bit of that article, shall we?

>Hybrid sales in the American market achieved its highest market share ever in 2013, capturing 3.19% of new car sales that year, and dropped below 2% by April 2016.[4][6][7]

get fucked.

>>16904966

They're gonna stall when the time actually comes. Lots of car brands have a limited electric range, and will also have it in 2025.
It's gonna cost a lot of people their jobs, but maybe they just won't care?

If they wanna have people buy electrics, just tweak the taxes and let people buy whatever they want desu.

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>>16904958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-QzhLUmcoU

>>16904977
>millions of sales
>not popular.
Of course the percentage is small. There are more offerings of ICE engines that hybrid and EV combined.
Fucking idiot. The percentage means nothing

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>>16904985

Well, at this year's Geneva Motor Show pretty much everyone agreed that the diesel engine is dead. Everyone is already preparing the hybrid and electric range.
Mercedes announced 10 new hybrid models by 2020 and just about every relevant car maker is going hybrid already

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>>16904965
Found this a while back...
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-Story-of-Turboing-a-Hybrid-Prius-Part-1&A=112194

>>16904989
The percentage means EVERYTHING, how the fuck else would you measure popularity?

>People buy the shit out of hybrids and EVs.
No, as I showed they largely ignore them, it's a tiny niche market and it's actually going DOWN lmao, it's a declining market.
Less than 2% of new cars but since the average car on the road is now over 10 years old the percentage of hybrid vehicles you actually see on the road isn't even 1%.
So when you said you see them all the time you either live in SF or some other liberal bubble and never get out, ot you were straight up lying.

>>16905021
I live in a rural NC town and see hybrids on a daily basis

I have for a long time and if anything theres more now than ever

>>16905033
not the guy you were talking to btw

theres even a Tesla running around now too

>>16905010

Hybrid sure, but they are still ICEs. Outright banning of the ICE just seems too strong and too early.
When ICEs lose market share there's gonna be no need to force anyone's hand, people will willingly switch to hybrids for the improved fuel economy (atleast in Europe) and to electrics for comfort and running cost.
The switch is going to happen faster if you rig taxes to favour hybrids and electrics strongly, which is the case in most markets.

>>16904714
>55mpg in test
My early 2000s NA econobox gets 60 in real life with a simple old otto-cycle engine.
With newer high compression atkinson engines, turbochargers and hybrids, 55mpg is a fucking joke.

>>16905033
Your little anecdote is irrelevant though, sales figures say consumers aren't interested.

The Prius has been around for 20 years now, it just isn't going to happen until gas prices reach $10 or so.

>>16905073
its cool just believe numbers instead of what actually goes on

>>16905073
>the greens in germany lobby for higher gas prices
>they want them to be 5€/l or 20$/gallon

like neil young said:

got fuel to burn, got roads to drive.

Its just a form of keeping the population in check, give your average joe a shitty v8 to wrench on and the man is content, these people lack a critical mind.

>>16905071
The problem is that cars weigh so much due to mandatory safety regulations, it's just not feasible to make an econobox under 1 ton nowadays if it's going to have 5 seats.

>>16905078
Yeah you're right I just believe some random guy on /o/'s personal anecdotes instead of actual figures what could go wrong

>>16905092
It was build untill 2014, has 4 seats and 4 doors.
A facelift version of it is built today, but they didn´t actualy change much.
My one weights 850kg.

Electric cars and hybrids receive large chunks of government funding & tax incentives to make them affordable. Trump is cutting funds from many depts; what happens to the hybrid/electric market when suddenly it's unable to turn a profit? While at the same time the CAFE standards keep rising and rising every year? Something's gotta give.

>>16905099
now that is a sheeple mind at work folks

never think
always believe

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>>16905044

Not really. I think that we just need an affordable EV capable of 500 miles on a full charge and things will change quite fast. The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV changed our perception about hybrids, the Opel Ampera did it, the BMW 330e did it, the E-Golf did it, the Golf GTE will do it...

We just need that 500 miles milestone and the ICE is dead.

>>16905083
>like neil young said:
Found the AARP member

>>16905113
>Golf GTE
I see so many of these around these days.

Trump ordered a midterm review of CAFE standards two weeks ago.

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I like Basalt, but this might be a game changer....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_silicon

>>16905106
My aren't you a feisty young rebel, little boy! You sure showed the establishment didn't you!

Hey sheeple, wake up! The US govt and car manufacturers are deliberately lying about hybrid sales numbers for some reason! In reality half of US cars are now hybrids, also the Prius sells 20 million units every year in the US alone! WAKE UP AND DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES

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>>16905121
>Really ?

>>16905114
As if AARP is a bad thing, thinking about the song i went to jewtube to listen to it again and they deleted it, guess it's too much of an eye opener for the public.

>>16904714
>>16904714
More things will just get classified as light trucks i.e. crossovers, that won't be subject to the CAFE requirement for cars.

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>>16904714
As a both a carguy and a libtard, I seriously hope Trump kills this dumb idea.

Pretty sure keeping my 90's shitboxs properly maintained and not driving it like a retard is way better for the environment than buying a new prius every 2 years.
MUH CHINESE BATTERIES

>>16904740
>>16904737
Love backup cameras, but they don't need to be mandatory. Whole reason this is happening is because some burger ran over their kid with their burger mall crawler.

http://www.kidsandcars.org/child_story/cameron-gulbransen/

>>16905121
Obama already locked it in.

>>16904906
How does a metric as basic as MILES PER GALLON even have room for debate? Jesus fucking christ, these liberals are beyond help. You put a gallon of fucking gas in the car and travel a mile. Count how many miles you traveled and write it down. What is so difficult about this?

>>16905373
Because if you put a gallon of gas in your car in Leadville Colorado at 30F you'll get a different result to New Orleans at 80F.

>>16905343
I don´t see any reason to fit one in a econobox with decent visibility.
>>16905373
The metric shows how much distances a car drives with a certain amount of fuel, the debate is how this distance is driven.
If you simulate 50mph highway driving, you will get a different number than for 85mph on the highway or driving in the city.

>>16904714
>U.S. Cars Must Get 55 MPG By 2025.
That's the average for the ENTIREcompany's car lines and not the average for each separate make and model. Of course, the greater the failure, the greater the fines. But GM can still put out a new car that gets 1 mpg as long as it is able to sell enough ultra-hybrids that get over 55 mpg to make the average of all new cars sold to be 55 mpg or better.

We'll continue to see more load shifting where the cars don't come with spare tires and jacks because there's a little bit of mpg gain in the base model of each make that is being evaluated for the EPA MPG requirement. By forcing the customers to pick spare and jack as an option, that puts the onus on the customer.

Having tiny engines run hard with turbos is going to be an increasing trend to gaining MPG. Engines wear out sooner that way.

Electric cars will be pushed because they give the company huge MPG credits as well as tax credits. Elon Musk / Tesla makes a handsome profit selling its eco credits and that will continue as long as buying eco/carbon credits is cheaper than EPA fines.

More cars might try Mazda's capacitor regenerative braking solution. That does significantly boost MPG. But it has the downsides of the added cost and weight.

Cars will be less and less repairable after collisions due to weight saving structural design changes. So the MPG penalty is indirectly forced onto the consumer this way as well.

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>>16905473
I know, but thnx for explaining it...

>>16905473
Except that you can archive 60mpg with a naturaly aspirated engine that doesn´t even rev high and without any special hybrid/regenerative braking system.
Oh, and you can carry a full siezed spare tire as well as a jack and a normal wrench.

The only thing to change is the size of the car, as long as you don´t built 2 metric ton heavy landyachts, 55mpg is a fucking joke.

>>16904722
we're already getting there. in 2015, the average age of US cars was 11.5

And I know I'm seeing more and more cars frum the turn of the millennium around. Since gas prices went down, I see more late 90's/early 00's Buicks, and Crown Vic/Grand Mercs are everywhere too.

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>>16905511

>>16904912
>600 mpg
how do you propose they do that mr engineer man

>>16904963
Most of those are rentals and fleet purchases.

>>16905584
The Aygo does get 60 mpg/ 3,9L/100km (highway) with 2005 technology.
It doesn´t even feature direct injection or any other modern stuff except for toyotas VVT-i system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo

>>16905473
>will be less and less repairable after collisions due to weight saving structural design changes.
Aluminum Ford F-150, I'm lookin' at you...

>>16904800
Nigger it was standard by the early 70's and an option since the early 60's at least.

What about fuel economy muscle cars, e.g., electric Dodge CHARGEr.

>>16906045
>overpowered cars that can´t corner
There is the Tesla Model S/X and soon there will be the Model 3.

>>16904809
in-laws have a manual steering S10 I drive occasionally. It's not hard, but the steering turns lock-to-lock are over 9000. Hope you don't have to swerve for something in the road because you're going to have 1.5 turns in before you start changing direction.

Anyone ever stop to think WHERE all this electricity is coming from? Depending on where you live, you could be ramping up the production of fossil fuel burning power plants...

yeah, that's not gonna happen.

cars have gotten really fucking big this past decade too.

civics are well over a foot longer and like half a foot wider now.

>>16906096
>civics are well over a foot longer and like half a foot wider now.
>muh bigger cars are bad

I want the boomers to leave.

>>16906106
I think like >>16906096
as well, and I am by no deffinition a boomer, I am a late millenial.

>>16906106
>muh biggers cars are bad

you are on /o/; pigfat can't turn used to be a well respected meme here.

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>>16906045
>What about fuel economy muscle cars,
It'll never happen the way you want it to.
Cylinder deactivation is the only feasible way and that is
A: carrying around dead weight
B: waiting for a computer to reactive cylinders (shit throttle response)
C: another component to fail

If you build a modest classic V8 engine with 3-350 hp you can achieve pretty decent mpg by the sheer lack of throttle you need to keep it moving. although you'll never see acceptable modern mpg.

Weight and aerodynamics are what hold back classic muscle cars in the MPG department, modern ones aren't as bad.

As a matter of fact in the 70's when the "semi-fastback" design came into style most cars gained like 1-2 mpg.

>>16906094
this pic related.

>>16906148
I have no respect for /o/ because any car they can't have is shit.

If it's RWD it's pigfat cantturn or in the case of the Miata, slow as shit.
If it's FWD it's pigfat cantturn. If it's a civic it acceptable, not because it's good but because that's all /o/cucks can afford.

>>16905545
This.

I see cobalts, neons, devilles, old F-150's, Buick centuries, every where. DESU, I like their boxier design concept better than the bubbly chubby kid designs of today.

2000-2011 had the best designs. From Mercedes to Chevy, they all had the right idea. Sure a lot were ugly, but had they carries those concepts into today's day and age they could have perfected it.

Also the mass spawn of crossovers really makes me feel ill. They are fucking disgusting.

>>16906167
>If it's RWD it's pigfat cantturn or in the case of the Miata, slow as shit.
>If it's FWD it's pigfat cantturn.
No one actualy belives this...

Where do you guys think modern cars (2015-2017) stand in terms of longevity?

Will they last 20+ years like their predecessors?

>>16906208
No shit because most of the time it's not true but that doesn't stop /o/ fags from saying it.

>>16906209
No one knows yet.

>>16906209
No, because most drivers stopped caring for their cars.

>>16906209
probably, all the major components needed to run it haven't changed much.

Whether the bluetooth infotainment will still function is anyone's guess.

>>16906215
The only thing /o/ says is that most burger and heavy cars can´t corner, wich is actualy true if you compare them to a RX-7 FD or a Miata.

>>16904883
>with the right gearing
Yeah so every car has 4-5 turns lock to lock on steering. Great idea.

Shitwit who has never gone from slow rack to fast rack detected

>>16906236
American cars don't exist anymore m8.
They may be made by American companies but they're undeniably based on foreign ideas.

>>16904996
off topic posts are a violation of global rules faggot

>>16906243
Get a bigger steering wheel sodomite.

>>16906209
Ahem, elephant in the room...

You know what I see a lot of that is a fairly new trend?

Women driving cars (mostly luxury) while their male pets sit passenger.

It looks really goofy to me. Women can't drive. I look in my rear view mirror constantly unlike most modern drivers. What I see is an older woman with sun glasses in a 5 series BMW right on my ass braking like a motherfucker.

I'm quick to slow down traffic just to show her how to drive.

Men don't do this... Well men who aren't beta cucks.

So no, modern cars won't last long because women and betas driving them to and from their liberal jobs don't know how treat their cars.

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>>16904714
It's unrealistic and probably won't happen. We are running into diminishing returns when it comes to increasing fuel efficiency of ICE cars. The correct way to do this would be to more greatly encourage development and purchase of electric cars for commuters.

>>16905082
>yfw the greens call themselves "progressive" while advocating what amounts to a regressive tax which will inflict great pain on the poor

>>16904923
in all my years of driving i have never had power steering fucking fail. hell the power steering is all original in my 1990 truck with 300k miles and it doesnt even groan or make weird noises

>>16906257
>sodomite
kek
I'm picturing big cars with 500mm steering wheels so they can avoid having power steering

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>>16904741
>with a capacitor instead of a battery

>>16906266
What kind of weird ass post is this? Off topic much? You sound like a Log Cabin Republican...

>>16906329
fuck off with yer riced out mazda scumbag

>>16906295
>doesn't daily a sloop

>>16906250
Indeed, that is why they corner better and get better engines than before.

>>16906358
Yeah it's shit
I just want a husky V8 with a metal shell wrapped around it.

>>16906344
Hahahahahaha. Truth hurts? Thx for confirming by your response. I own no Mazda.

>>16906106

They have gotten a lot bigger though.

I parked my 05 forester next to a new one the other day and was surprised by the size discrepancy. Same thing with my buddy's tacoma.

Despite this, mpg has gotten better pretty much across the board.

If they reduced size, the numbers would be even better (not that I give a fuck either way).

>>16906377
What truth? You didn't make a statment.

The only thing you let me know was true is that you hitch rides from your rich girlfriend in her Lexus.

>>16904751
This. Find lighter materials and this will be easy.

America stop making xboxhuge vehicles and youll save a couple kg's from that alone. In all seriousness the advancement in alot of HSLA and UHSS is being utilised in alot of newer vehicles which have improved load paths, rigidity and equally made vehicles lighter combined with using better joining techniques can reduce the weight impact of the BIW system on the mpg figures. There is already work being done to achieve improved fuel economy exploiting new technologies across all vehicle systems but i still dont get why everyone wants to drive a truck or gas guzzler in america.

>>16906410
...but that comes at the cost of safety. Heavier vehicles do better in terms of survivability in crashes. If the goal was "survivability" instead of "gas mileage" how different would cars look now?

>>16906523
>America stop making xboxhuge vehicles and youll save a couple kg's from that alone.
Oops infotainment and safety features happened.

>but i still dont get why everyone wants to drive a truck or gas guzzler in america.
Because not all of us are faggots who want to ride around in a Toyota Yaris with a manbun

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>>16905511
1.0i 12V I3 998 cc 68 PS (50 kW; 67 hp)
1.4HDi 8V I4 1398 cc 55 PS (40 kW; 54 hp)
Curb weight 890 kg (1,962 lb)

>>16906578
>1.4HDi 8V I4 1398 cc 55 PS (40 kW; 54 hp)
Jesus Christ my motorcycle can do fucking better and it's 30 years old and 200 cc's smaller.

>>16906587
No shit sherlock, your motorcycle engine is designed to produce a maximum amount of horsepower at high revs, it isn't designed to be a low-revving econoshitbox CAR ENGINE

>>16906587
That is a Diesel engine, wich didn´t sell verry good for a reason.

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>>16904996
>t. increasingly nervous manlet

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>>16906570
>faggots who want to ride around in a Toyota Yaris with a manbun
Ha. So close. Pic related.

>>16906593

Rev for rev my bike engine is making more power.
It's a simple fact, econocuck cars are pieces of shit.

>>16906570
So youre insecure?

>>16905584
Nice, I once made a similar post and it went over everyone's heads because it wasn't as obvious

>>16906623
>Rev for rev my bike engine is making more power.
NO
FUCKING
SHIT
SHERLOCK
YOUR
BIKE
ENGINE
IS
DESIGNED
TO
MAKE
AS
MUCH
POWER
AS
POSSIBLE
NOT
TO
POWER
AN
ECONOSHITBOX
EFFECTIVELY
AND
GET
GOOD
FUEL
ECONOMY

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>>16906623
>>16906587
>comparing a highly engineered performance engine to an engine built for the sole purpose of being cheap

>>16906636
The sorry state of it is my bike is still getting better mpg than that abomination of an engine.
Stay mad, Faygo owner.

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>>16906652
>supreme autist persists in comparing his old shitty motorbike to a shitty little car for citycucks

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>>16904996
Fake news isn't allowed

>>16906648
>highly engineered
kek

>>16906656
post your Aygo.

Debate this:
If the Faygo had more hp then it could move around with less throttle and consume less gas.

>>16906561
component strength is what makes cars safe, not weight. bring new materials to market with better ratios of strength to weight, and you can drop weight while keeping good crash safety.

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>>16906673
>post your Aygo.
>thinks the owner of a city shitbox would call said city shitbox a "shitty little car for citycucks"

>>16906673
>motorbike engines with high specific output
>not highly engineered

>>16906623
The Diesel engine was the leat powerfull option for that car, it sold much worse than the 1KR-FE 1.0L gas engine because of that and the higher price.

The 1KR-FE however won many awards due its great efficiency, low weight and low price.
The fully assmbled engine weights only 69kg.
>>16906673
If the engine was bigger it would run under lower load, wich would result in a higher fuel consumption due to lower efficiency.
A engine like the 1KR-FE has its maximum efficiency at max torque and about 80-90% load.

>>16906683
I call my cars pieces of shit all the time, even my precious bike as well. No need to be salty a 30 year old engine is better is every single way.

>>16906686
>>motorbike engines with high specific output
It's actually a very mild engine for it's class, the only thing exceptional about it is that it was designed from the factory to burn rich to stay cool.

>>16906693
>If the engine was bigger it would run under lower load, wich would result in a higher fuel consumption due to lower efficiency.
Nice theory if real world examples didn't confirm the opposite already. At some point stomping on your throttle just to make your car move will be more inefficient then simply having a bigger engine.

>>16906681
bring new materials to market with better ratios
$$$$$$

>>16906715
>30 year old engine is better is every single way.
Put your piece of shit motorbike engine in a citycuck car and see if it's better for the purpose

A hammer is the best tool for driving a nail
Now try to use it to turn a screw

>>16906721
It takes a while to fully commercialise higher strength steels/aluminiums or composites

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>>16905584
>>16906628
I guess it just shows that I'm an old Buger, but I thought it would be funny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Citation

>>16906729
>Put your piece of shit motorbike engine in a citycuck car and see if it's better for the purpose
No can do, the transmission won't carry that load.

>A hammer is the best tool for driving a nail
>Now try to use it to turn a screw

Shit analogy, we're talking about two engines.

If your analogy was going to work you would have compared two different types of hammers.

Debate this:
If the Faygo had more hp then it could move around with less throttle and consume less gas.

Of course you can't debate this because you know i'm correct.
Face it: Yota made a complete piece of shit. No need to dance around it.

>>16906757
>0-60 in 9 seconds flat
This was actually a real advertisement they used in the malaise era holy shit.

>>16906759
>Shit analogy, we're talking about two engines.
I'm talking about two tools
checkmate

>>16904714
>Or Trump repeals this law?
He couldn't even figure out how to repeal a health care law that the GOP had been trying to destroy for seven years now.

>>16904737
>They had cars that could do this. The CRX HF and the Geo Metro
In tests that had nothing to do with the real world.

>>16906768
I guess you're big enough to be two tools.

>>16905373
Yes, how does a metric that changes depending on usage and vehicle and can and was manipulated have room for debate.

>>16906769
>He couldn't even figure out how to repeal a health care law that the GOP had been trying to destroy for seven years now.
Because some buttmad republicunts who will do the opposite of what Trump wants whether or not it's good for their constituency.

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>>16906721

>>16904783
>>16904793
>>16904855
>>16904868
>>16904875
Basalt is a dark-colored, fine-grained, igneous rock composed mainly of plagioclase and pyroxene minerals. It most commonly forms as an extrusive rock, such as a lava flow, but can also form in small intrusive bodies, such as an igneous dike or a thin sill.

>>16906738
We've seen this with the aluminum Ford trucks; it boosts the mpg AND it boots the time it takes to fix it, driving up the cost of insurance.

>>16906791
Basalt shills pls go

Nobody wants to ride around in a car made out of rocks you Flinstones.

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>>16906715
>Nice theory if real world examples didn't confirm the opposite already.
Name one where this is the case and both engines are designed somewhat similar.
>At some point stomping on your throttle just to make your car move will be more inefficient then simply having a bigger engine.
That point is when you need to rev your engine higher than maximum torque to keep your speed, wich isn´t the case for the Aygo.

Pic related shows the brake specific fuel consumption of a 1KR-FE like the one in the Aygo.

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>>16906800
Drive-Through Car Wash Causes $6,000 in Damage on New Ford F-150

>>16906759
A engine is only efficient under high load and rpm close to max torque.
A small engine can stay in that area at normal speeds.
A big engine needs to run lower load and is therefore less efficient.

That is why it gets 60 mpg on the highway without being verry aerodynamic at all.

>>16906816
Thank you, Man. Thank you for injecting Reality into the thread.

>>16906806
>Name one where this is the case and both engines are designed somewhat similar.
I dunno, my Dads' 5.9 liter Ram that gets 19 mpg because it can idle at 20mpg vs his 2014 5.7 liter Ram that gets 13 mpg because you actually need to touch the gas pedal to get anywhere?
Or even my Shitty tC where the "avg" mpg climbs when you leave it in 5th gear instead of shifting to 6th ASAP.

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>>16906801
R34 door' Basalt carbon fiber 6 to 1 mix

http://www.compositescentral.com/showthread.php?t=9256

>also smoothing something... fuck you.

>>16906840
>idle at 20mpg
mph*

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>>16906839
The carwash’s rotating brushes grabbed the antenna mast, ripped it right out of the fender, and proceeded to whack the side of his truck repeatedly while going through the wash.

>>16906828
>A engine is only efficient under high load and rpm close to max torque.
So what your saying is that a Bugatti Veyron under max throttle shouldn't be emptying it's fuel tank in 12 minutes?

>>16906839
Ford Ford they're the best, drive a mile walk the Rest!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuIijDlH1PI

>>16906840
1. the difference between a 5,9L and a 5,7L engine is minimal, tire pressure, tires and driving style make much more difference than 3,4% less displacement.
2. If you rev your engine too low, you loose efficiency.

>>16906306
The hybrid battery smartass.

>>16906881
>1. the difference between a 5,9L and a 5,7L engine is minimal,
Besides the extra 100 or so ft lbs of torque?


>2. If you rev your engine too low, you loose efficiency.

This is another example of paper theory conflicting with real world examples.

Lugging your engine produces wonderful fuel efficiency. Whether or not it's healthy for the engine isn't part of this debate, only the mpgs.
It's simple logic, if the engine revs lower it consumes less gas.
Seriously, drive a car some time.

>>16906681
>safe
>light
>cheap
pick two

Obama socialist fuel standards kill American jobs at Auto plants, many such cases, sad.

Will repeal cafe, make v8s great again, no car allowed to get more than 20mpg.

>>16906858
1. The engine isn´t exactly running at max torque rpm
2. it produces a hell lot of power, so even if it only needs like 250g of fuel per produced kWh, it would need 250g/h/kw*1000kW=250.000g/h=250kg of fuel/hour

250kg/0,8kg/l=312l/h

That is already assuming it would get 250g/kwh, wich this performance focused engine doesn´t and it gets worse the higher above max torque you rev it.
I assume it would be more like 350g/kWh at maximum power. wich would translate to 312l/h/250g/kWh*350g/kWh=436,8L/h

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>>16906912
>WA LA
Basalt fiber is a material made from extremely fine fibers of basalt, which is composed of the minerals plagioclase, pyroxene, and olivine. It is similar to fiberglass, having better physicomechanical properties than fiberglass, but being significantly cheaper than carbon fiber.

>>16906757
I'm just 25 but posted this back in the day, look at the exchange, pretty funny. Anon thought I was actually comparing the Citation to the Prius, kek.
https://archive.4plebs.org/o/thread/14805846/#14809096

>>16906953
Fuck i remember that post.

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>>16906800
pic related
>>16906721
>>16906738
HSS is already used in cars. You can't have rigid zones with mild steel, mild steel is used for the crumple zones.
The materials that really revolutionize cars structurally are pretty exotic and expensive such as carbon fiber, you won't see them used extensively on anything less than an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio.

>>16906901
>Besides the extra 100 or so ft lbs of torque?
Naturaly aspirated gas engines produce about 100Nm/L displacement, so we talk about like additional 20Nm of torque.

This is another example of paper theory conflicting with real world examples.

>Lugging your engine produces wonderful fuel efficiency. Whether or not it's healthy for the engine isn't part of this debate, only the mpgs.
Only if it is the only way to put any significant amount of load on your engine at all, wich you can see on any diagramm of brake specific fuel consumption if you look at the different rpm for the same power.
>It's simple logic, if the engine revs lower it consumes less gas.
That is not due to the lower rpm, but due to the higher load on your engine to produce the same power under lower rpm.
>Seriously, drive a car some time.
I do drive often and exceed even the NEFZ rating of my car, wich is harder than to exceed the EPA rating due to more allowed cheating on the NEFZ rating.

>>16906971
literally wewing rn

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>>16906953
>I have a moped with a Variomatic CVT

Wait what the fuck? Why at that weight would matter.

>>16906901
>Lugging your engine produces wonderful fuel efficiency. Whether or not it's healthy for the engine isn't part of this debate, only the mpgs.
>It's simple logic, if the engine revs lower it consumes less gas.
>Seriously, drive a car some time.
not always
sometimes there's excess fuel entering the chamber for the given RPM but the engine can't spin faster because the load is too much

>>16906977
>This is another example of paper theory conflicting with real world examples.
the 5.9 is a diesel


>That is not due to the lower rpm
Wrong.
if two single cylinder engines that are exactly the same are running at different rpm, the slower one is demanding gas less frequently then the faster one, generating less power but being able to run longer.

You're suggesting that engines at maximum thermal efficiency are getting maximum fuel efficiency, which is simply erroneous.

>>16904714
Average fuel economy is retarded, it forces manufacturers to invest and produce cars that nobody wants
It's a huge waste of money

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>>16904714
> Change legal definition of car to include 4 wheeled pushbikes
> give away two free bikes with every car purchase
problem solved.

>>16906673
Peak HP has little to do with fuel consumption

>>16907005
>sometimes there's excess fuel entering the chamber for the given RPM but the engine can't spin faster because the load is too much
Which i addressed earlier, more throttle for any given rpm=more gas consumed.

>>16906996
Variomatics, as used in mopeds, are horribly inefficient and constantly rev at maximum power.

The ones in some newer cars however are computer controlled and have a higher efficiency.

>>16907015
fair enough

>>16907011
(You)
>>>/n/

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>>16907028
you missed the point retard

pushbikes get infinite miles to the gallon

times that by 2, cause u get two free bikes

this offsets whatever mpg of the car to the point they should be paying you for being so green

tldr; go be a smarmy faggot elsewhere

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>>16907017
That't what I was trying to say
Cars yes
Mopeds...NO, they are too light get get any REAL benefit form this, I feel

>>16905092
Suzuki has the swift. Exactly 1023 kg iirc, 1.6 l engine and great mpgs

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>>16907007
>the 5.9 is a diesel
Ok, sorry I am not fammiliar with Dodge RAM engine options.
If they have the same intake pressure, fuel injection pattern etc. the difference in torque will be within the 4% range anyway.

>if two single cylinder engines that are exactly the same are running at different rpm, the slower one is demanding gas less frequently then the faster one, generating less power but being able to run longer.
If one cylinder is bigger or filled with more air/fuel and revs at lower rpm, it requires the same amount of air/fuel if you assume both engines have the same efficiency.
>You're suggesting that engines at maximum thermal efficiency are getting maximum fuel efficiency, which is simply erroneous.
If your engine is able to run at a higher thermal efficiency due to higher load, it will get a better fuel efficiency.
Just look at the diagramm >>16906806 for gas engines or pic related for a Diesel engine.

>>16907079
new model was announced last week, under 1000kg now breh

>>16907068
Oh, ok.
But the weight isn´t the significant factor, it is just, that these CVTs are shit.
A good CVT would atualy be verry benificial for a moped.

>>16907060
I thought you were saying that the bikes should count as cars so by buying one car you would technically buy 3

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>>16906254
You can only make posts aligned with mod's political views, my dude.

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>>16907108
I think this would be a better (((cheaper))) option.

First Diesel Electric Hybrid Scooter with Two-Wheel Drive

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>>16907134
14 horsepower, 150 cc diesel mill
26 pound-feet of torque
1.3-hp hub-mounted motor (makes the RNT two-wheel drive)
Optional turbocharger
Removable LED headlight
Optional generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMbx_T_6unc

Yup they put Pajeet in the vid?

>>16907134
My 4-speed manual Simson needs 1,8L/100km @ 45km/h and 2,5L at 65 km/h, can this heavy thing beat my 1970s 2-stroke?

>>16904714

Is that based across just models or sales?

You can have a couple "undesirable" cars without power steering and a/c and so forth but cleaning up 70 mpg and the rest of the regular cuck hybrid fleet doing 55 mpg and one really interesting car busting away 30 mpg because even super cars get that these days and you're set.

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>>16907172
136 kg, I missed that, what if it falls over on Pajeet?

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U
>>16907184
C
>>16905473
Aston Martin Cygnet is either a fabulously clever way to make a heap of money and cut CO2 emissions,

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>>16907191
The S51 weights about 75kg, the Schwalbe a bit more.

>>16907134
Here's ya Future, /o/...Enjoy.

>>16907134
>Two-Wheel Drive
why would they do this on a city scooter? seems like it would make it heavier, less efficient and with a shorter range, not unlike what happens with the AWD versions of the Tesla S

>>16906791
>an igneous dyke or a thin shill
what did he mean by this?

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>>16907247
More Regen ?
>IDK

>>16906864
>tears by hand
>Uses pliers
:thinking:

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>>16907265
At least u read it.

>>16907270
wew lad, is that nitro?

>>16907291
Is basalt as chemically stable as glass or carbon though?

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>>16907299
Compressed air I think.
Member that French guy that built the Air car

>>16905106
jesus christ you're dense

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>>16907299
YES
http://smarter-building-systems.com/smarter-building-basalt-faqs/


>>16907323
Meant for
>>16907292

>>16905994
The aluminum was put there to save weight not for mpg's but to allow for a higher pay load cap while retaining the same max gross vehicle weight, also the chassis is still steel so structurally it is still stronger

>>16907366
>not for mpg's
That's bullshit. ALL weight shaving is for MPGs because of CAFE standards. Wake up. They aren't trying to give you a better truck, they're tying to meet the government standards and YOU get to deal with the higher costs in insurance and repairs...

>>16905994
And we thought 5 mph bumpers were bad... We need to meme the IIHS into being a powerful lobby again, this time for our own good.

>>16906186
dog, at least understand what desu means before spouting it. Like, was that really necessary?

>>16906186
>2000-2011 had the best designs. From Mercedes to Chevy, they all had the right idea.
kill yourself retard
2009 was Merc's renaissance

>>16908020
sup newfag
there's this thing called word filters, they turn niggerspeak into weaboospeak

Electric cars and plug in hybrids.

Internal Combustion Engines simply aren't thermally efficient enough to drive modern heavy cars to such MPG.

>>16904722
most of those cars in cuba have engine swaps

>>16908412
From what? Where were all the new automotive goodies coming from? Russia?

>>16908618
France and Russia.

the USA is really the only country that still embargos Cuba.

>>16905092
>mfw my starlet weighs 750~kgs and seats 4 average people reasonably well

>>16908618
Literally anything they can get their hands on and if not they'll make what they need.
Those cars are really just American frames and franken-drivetrains.

>>16904883
power steering is still required to be mechanically linked. if the CIA turns your PS off, it becomes manual steering.

>>16906257
>>16906295
kek

>>16905545
>in 2015, the average age of US cars was 11.5

In 2 more years, there's a glass ceiling at the 11 year mark because then all the cars will have rear passenger airbags. When all those airbags go off for an 11 year old car, the owner is forced to decide to sink a LOT more money into the old car or abandon it and buy a new one. If he sinks money, then he'll be buying discounted (stolen) air bags that some shop is putting in.

However, more and more air bag computers will need to be reset by the dealer and that will be the point controlling how many used cars will be able to continue past 11 years or not whenever such a car has its airbags set off.

>>16908618
most that i talked to were using caterpillar diesel beast engines
i don't know how they get them

>SUV and truck price soar to incredible high
>Everyone will drive hybrid crossover

I can't see what's wrong with that. Normal people don't need SUVs

>>16909303
Most people with 12 years old car are riding around without airbags or dysfunctional systems. I don't think it will change much.

>>16909652
>Most people with 12 years old car are riding around without airbags or dysfunctional systems.

I don't know how those people would get away with it in my state.

State law requires mechanics shops to report illegal situations. For example, malfunctioning odometers. So having blown airbags would be pretty obvious the car is illegally driven.

My car phones home its status and I can't stop it since it is Onstar. So the manufacturer would have documented evidence I was driving the car illegally since the airbag system is required by law to be functional (just like catalytic converters).

>>16906167
>tfw your pigfat challenger holds more speed in a corner than your friend's FRS

>>16909992
Due to better choice of tires.

>>16909906
Don't know what you on about but here in the state of Texas functioning airbags are not required to pass state inspection. Why you may ask well because the airbag system is made to protect the people inside the vehicle and thus you are not endangering other motorists on the road just yourself and who ever willingly gets in your vehicle. You do need seatbelts tho

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Wait, is it supposed to be 55mpg for every car or is it 55mpg as an average?

If it's the average, what's stopping all the auto manufacturers from manufacturing just one car, but with something like a 1000mpg using some electric/ICE car trickery (or legal loophole) to skew the average upward while keeping the rest of the cars in the lineup lower than 50mpg?

Trump may repeal or redefine CAFE. Automakers are making retarded cars to stretch fleet economy (e.g. Ford Fusion Hybrid, "up to 12 miles on battery" and then regular hybrid but POW! 99mpg!!!) and putting in features that are harmful IRL (e.g. Auto engine start/stop features) but get 1-2mph on fuel economy. Turbos are probably the biggest meme on this as if you grandmother EPA tests they can do 1-2mph better but any demands up for power slurp fuel like no tomorrow.

>>16904740
With the visibility in modern cars and the skill of the average driver, mandatory backup cameras are cheap and very effective.

>>16904751
Seriously this, my 2015 Ford Fusion AWD has a curb weight of 3700lbs as an intermediate sedan.

>>16907366
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141121/OEM01/141129953/ford-says-aluminum-bodied-f-150s-fuel-economy-rises-up-to-29-percent
Ford was touting the SHIT out of Fuel economy in 2014 before gas collapsed.

>>16904963
Fleet purchases on rentals are huge and now as hybrids increase in meme and all electric becomes more sexy the tax credits on hybrids are dropping

>>16906976
>The materials that really revolutionize cars structurally are pretty exotic and expensive such as carbon fiber, you won't see them used extensively on anything less than an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio.
Yep. You need to clear the base model with whatever you can to make some money, then fleece on the options and packages to be competitive. Anything that raises the base price of vehicles automakers resist.

The Euro7 standards and revamping of testing in Europe to make accounting for a real reduction of NOX emissions will kill affordable diesel in Europe for the same reason - Renault chief and others have said so. Performance diesel will remain for a much higher cost but cheap diesel will not be able to keep the appealing parts of diesel without incurring too much cost over petrol/electric/hybrid.

>>16910303
>2015 Ford Fusion AWD has a curb weight of 3700lbs
holy shit, I never realized how heavy cars have gotten. That Fusion weighs almost as much as my dad's old Honda Odyssey minivan

>>16910320
I drove a 2017 Dodge Grand Caravan in Toronto last wieek and it has a curb weight of 4,321-4,483lbs. Barely more. The 2017 Honda Accord has a curb weight up to 3,605lbs.

Cars have gotten wayyyyyy heavier in time.

>>16910303
>Turbos are probably the biggest meme on this as if you grandmother EPA tests they can do 1-2mph better but any demands up for power slurp fuel like no tomorrow.
again regulations fuck everything up
we'd be greener if the market was let to pick the actual high MPG cars instead of some made to pass tests

>>16909303
>it's illegal to drive with expired airbags
lmfao burgers are such cucks
also I drive a 17 year old car and it has the factory airbags
airbag expiration is just the manufacturers covering their asses because they didn't know how well they'd hold up

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>>16907011
Nigga we already be got thoz

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>>16907299
It's mostly used as rebar to reinforce concrete structures replacing steel because it won't rust.
Buildings are built to last a long time, so yes it is chemically stable.

>>16906673
>i don't understand how petrol engines work

The reason big engines consume more fuel is because ICE engines are less efficient whenever they are not at full load. The point of cylinder deactivation, 9 speed gearboxes, turbos and hybrids is precisely to keep the ICE engine running as close to full load when necessary, or not at all when possible.

Look up BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption)

>>16910774
Concrete is very different from metal or epoxy though

>all this basalt shilling, including the "more environmentally friendly" claim
it takes a lot of energy to make basalt fibers, and it's not like any kind of basalt is good for making continuous basalt filament
As another anon said, basalt shill pls go

>>16913090
Also it's denser but not as strong as S-2 glass

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>>16913090
>>16913116
PTP HX35 Turbo Blanket – Lava for Holset HX35 turbochargers

>Proponents of this late-comer claim their products offer performance similar to S-2 glass fibers at a price point between S-2 glass and E-glass. Basalt fibers are naturally resistant to ultraviolet (UV) and high-energy electromagnetic radiation, maintain their properties in cold temperatures, and provides better acid resistance. Reportedly, basalt also is superior in the realm of worker safety and air quality since basalt is the product of volcanic activity, the fiberization process is more environmentally safe than that of glass fiber. The "greenhouse" gases that might otherwise be released during fiber processing, were vented millions of years ago during the magma eruption. Further, basalt is 100 percent inert, that is, it has no toxic reaction with air or water, and is noncombustible and explosion proof.

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>>16913090
Non-asbestos organic composite friction materials including basalt fiber are increasingly used in automotive brake disc pads and clutch facing applications. Loss in braking effectiveness at elevated temperatures (300-400°C) because of reduction in friction coefficient and the revival of the same at lower temperatures is referred to as fade and recovery, respectively.

Technical advantages of basalt fiber for this application:

2-3 times longer service life of the break assembly
Durable frictional contact with metal without its weardown
Higher and more stable friction factor
Increased shock resistance
Extended working temperature range
Resistance to chemically aggressive conditions
Low water absorbency
Eco friendliness

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The EDAG “Light Car – Open Source” concept vehicle at the 2009 Geneva Motor Show. Built entirely from uber lightweight
>basalt fiber,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3mROScryss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z30bfLYR8-U

Just looking for feedback, if your comments are valid fine.... I know some of you just LIVE to shit post. It's the lads with more Knowledge than me on this subject than I'm hoping to hear from.
> last BASALT post

>>16914333
>>16914483
Post your pay stub you fucking shill

>>16904741
Ultra caps are still garbage in terms of energy density. Power density is pretty good but still bad. You'd come out ahead using lithium with good thermal control

>>16906757
I thought it was pretty clever.

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>>16904722
I'm ok with this.

>>16914845
>I know some of you just LIVE to shit post

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>>16914862
>>16914862
Danke, how about this?
Hydraulic hybrid...

>>16914166
It offers less performance than S-2 while not being much cheaper. Also the manufacturing process is complicated, and the fibers aren't just taken from the rock as your post seems to imply. Rock is triturated, heated and then extruded. Because basalt is opaque and dark unlike glass, it's harder to make the heat reach all parts of the mass being heated. Also because of its crystalline structure it's harder to get it right than with glass.
>>16914333
State of the art brake discs are ceramic.
>>16914483
Looks nice from a proof of concept point of view, but in the end ceramics and carbon fiber just outclass basalt in most applications. Maybe basalt makes sense to reduce costs where carbon fiber would be overkill, but S-2 glass can achieve better weight for the same strength without being much more expensive.

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>>16914845
Retard thinks some Imitation Moon Rune site has any influence on the Auto industry, wew lad--

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>>16915008
>This is what I wanted, thank you kind SIR

>>16914483
Crash a 1999 Suburban into it and see how it does, then we'll talk.

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>>16915019
It's almost as strong as carbon fiber, but stronger that most glass. It's medium tek.
LFA vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AScfESzQzIQ

>>16915018
lol is the tesla made of plastic or what?
also you're welcome, i'm always pleased to talk about materials
it was some of my favorite subjects in college (I'm still in college though). That said, I first heard of basalt here, but I did some research and came to those conclusions.

>>16915057
Still not as strong as S-2 glass, and it's almost as expensive.
I'd just use S-2 tbqh (this is of special interest to me because I want to make a speedboat. Most of the hull is made of E glass but it makes sense to use S-2 for some structural parts).

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>>16915063
>something something CHINA
But thanks for the feed back, I was thinking crash structures for doors. Lighter than the steel ones used now?

>>16915057
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5r292B87M8
...Nissan Altima wins. I'd steer clear of the '99 Suburban.

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>>16915072
Burnt Tesla for you too good Sir, and also a thank you.

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>>16915083
KEK
Tree wins..

>>16915082
>>16915087
I'm the same guy you replied to in both posts lol. Mech engineering student with a soft spot for cigarette boats.

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>>16915109
How do you feel about DONZI.

>>16915117
Good stuff but I'm more of a Wellcraft guy, my tastes aren't as modern. Scarab 38 KV is my dream boat.
BTW, seems like most manufacturers are defunct now. Seems like Donzi, Baja and Fountain were owned by the same company, can't find official websites for them.

For modern makers, Cigarette Racing, Pier 57 and Outerlimits Offshore Powerboats seem some of the coolest.

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>>16904803
Just good taste, faggo. But you wouldn't know anything about that.

Honda Civic VX did that 27 years ago.

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>>16915172
With safety regs from 27 years ago

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>>16915152
DONZI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Aronow
I played with the idea of a boat with built in retractable trailer (wheels hidden in hull until needed)

>>16915174
Make driving tests harder. Fewer retards on the road to hit you.

>>16915178
Shit, seems like every business that catches my attention ends up with the owners getting murdered

>Aronow
>Gemballa

>>16915183
People can already hit you without being retards

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>>16915201
>>Gemballa
WET DREAM

killed in SA , money laundering, what I read? Cyrus 2 when??

>>16915220
I mean, he made a lot of gaudy stuff but a lot of cool stuff too, and I'm both into making cool stuff and smuggling, kek
basically anything related to 80s excess appeals to me

>>16915220
BTW I'm watching Manhunter right now
based Michael Mann

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>>16915229
>>16915229
Same lead actor.
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090180/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JI_RclmIg>>16915223

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>>16915233

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>>16915244

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>>16915245

>>16915233
Oh, I've already watched that one. God tier soundtrack by Tangerine Dream, god tier aesthetics too. Classic film soleil.

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>>16915233
Just finished watching Manhunter, a true masterpiece. In some ways, "Red dragon" doesn't come even close. BTW check out this aesthetic captcha.

>>16904788
If the car weighs less than 3k lbs it's not absolutely necessary.

That being said, with MUH SAFETY and MUH 'LECTRONICS it's not feasible for automakers to produce normal cars with that weight.

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>>16915233
>>16915245
>>16915259
Not gonna lie, it's mostly his interiors that I like. The white avalanche looks pretty radical though. I mean, check out this stereo.

>>16904714
Kek my Peugeot shitbox is over 55 mpgs, you dont need hybridsmfor that lmao

>>16915697
When your car has a 5000cc+ engine and weights two and a half tons you indeed need a hybrid.

Americans can't make small cars for some reason.

Oh well.

by 2030 Germany only allows electric cars
get on our cuck level

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2006 112.2 mpg! In a Prius (pulse and glide)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/1793/

>>16915423
The Keep is the only, Michael Mann flick I didn't care for..., CSI guy was good in that brat pack western sequel.

Gemballa Mirage GT

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>>16916639

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>>16914862
It's not meant to be full electric, just electric assist.

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>>16916639
Have you watched Thief? Another masterpiece. And Tangerine Dream is in it too, like in To live and Die in LA.

>>16904714
Electric cars and hybrids to pad CAFE, super stripped down budget kei cars, HCCI, cooled EGR, water injection, and at the high end more exotic materials to cut weight.

Expecting Trump to change anything is laughable. He can't even repeal the ACA which is one president old. Getting him to stop something as entrenched as the clean air act and CAFE standards which rates back to Carter is even less likely.

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>>16916716
Oh shit, that's a movie that I meant to watch but never got around to it. Thnx

Was going to mention Dafoe's black 308

>>16916754
>super stripped down budget kei cars
Unlikely unless someone gets rid of the superfluous "safety" regulations/requirments

>>16916756
I'm pretty sure "Drive" borrows heavily from it. It's pretty awesome.

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>>16916794
Watched The Hidden, Lover boy and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

All cause they had a Ferrari Mondial in them

>>16916822
Nice, I watched The Hidden too. Disgusting slugs lel.

>>16916716
>And Tangerine Dream is in it too, like in To live and Die in LA.
I fucked up, TLnDiLA is Wang Chung

>>16910303
>that are harmful IRL (e.g. Auto engine start/stop features)
Explain

>>16904741
>Hybrid with ultra cap (AND battery)
>regenerative braking charges it.

The next step up for hybrids is to add supercapacitors to recover the braking energy. Currently, hybrids try to recover energy when braking, but most of the energy is lost because batteries just can absorb the spike of energy fast enough. However, capacitors can.

>>16916787
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvPuzie1GEM

It's viable.

>>16916787
>safety
>superfluous