/dmt/ daily manual thread

as in how long does a manual transmission take to become second nature?, like shifting?
If so then it took me around 6-7 months to actually stop noticing me shifting.
That was from me first ever getting my license and going straight to driving manual.

>>16634691

Burning clutch is reffered to keeping the clutch half pressed while driving, resulting in a lot of friction and wear on it.

>>16634733
Ive had a clutch replacement kit sitting in my garage for a couple years now. Wen should i install it? Its still good if anything the driveaxles need replacing. Just want to kno wat others experience with a worn clutch is like so i kno wen its time.

>>16634733
So does that only happen if people have their foot on the clutch pedal at all times and inadvertantly press it in a bit?

Kind of like how some automatic drivers drive with their left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas at all times

>>16634846
Your foot bumping it isnt anything to worry about. Dont be revving it up real high then slowly release the clutch over a minute. That will wear it out alot faster. Also ur clutch is a wearable item. Its meant to be worn and replaced so your transmission wont need to be.

>>16634846
The clutch only wears mostly between you having the clutch engaged and disengaged. When its fully engaged no material is being burnt off and when its fully disengaged at best only the clutch cover clamps will slowly fuck off.

But yeah, a clutch is supposed to be a replaceable item. you are very likely to feel a loss on sensitivity and maybe powertrain loss when the clutch fucks up, which wont happe until long after the second fix for an auto gearbox.

>>16634691
The clutch is the cog that connects the wheels to engine, when you press the clutch down it separates either two, freeing the wheels up for shifting gear.
Some people habitually leave their foot on the clutch while driving (riding the clutch).
This, combined with overall poor gear shifting, leaves a partial disconnect, causing the clutch to erode over time, making it more difficult for the clutch to interlock with the engine and vice versa.
A completely worn out clutch wont grip at all and needs changing.

so ive had my license for a year and all the cheap cars here in chicago are manual any tips/vids to learn

On the subject of wearing out a clutch, if you stop on a hill and use the clutch to stay still instead of the footbrake does it wear the clutch significantly? I'm told the clutch can easily hold the weight of the car but i am still unsure.

>>16636413
>if you stop on a hill and use the clutch to stay still instead of the footbrake does it wear the clutch significantly?
absolutely
do it too long and you could completely glaze your clutch

>>16634713
i haven't driven a manual for 7 years now but every time I get behind the wheel of a manual I still manage to doubleclutch easily.
Muscle memory is magical thing

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>>16634691
>How long does it generally take to become second nature?
Give it a year. Maybe an extra 6 months for true proficiency.

>>16636440
What is the point of double clutching in your average manual car? Genuinely wondering. I thought you only needed to double clutch on cars with no synchros.

>>16636577
Smoother downshifts

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>>16634691
>Fiesta owners need a thread about learning to drive manual

I've noticed a slight rattling sound when my clutch pedal is just slightly depressed. It's not there when the clutch is actually disengaged; it only shows up just before my foot is off the pedal completely. I assume it's the throwout bearing. How long can I avoid having to replace that bitch? (should have replaced the clutch and throwout bearing 6 months ago when I had to replace the leaking seals in my trans/tcase, but oh well). I only use the clutch for complete stops, so that saves a bunch of wear on the bearing.

>>16636577
There is no need to double clutch in a modern car that has a transmission with synchronizers in it. Double clutching will reduce wear on the synchros, however the effect is negligible, and the synchros are meant to be used up.

There are only 2 situations really when double clutching would be beneficial/necessary
>vehicle without synchronizers
>skipping gears ie: trying to go from like 5th to 3rd or 4th to 2nd really quickly (for whatever reason, for example rotary engines are very high revving and it is not uncommon for drivers to drop from 4th to 2nd in them)

In a situation like this double clutching will prevent the synchros from wearing more than normal because the change is so large. Not too sure on technicalities, but I'm fairly certain that in a normal downshifting situation (say 4th-2nd) you would want to row through each individual gear in order to maintain drivetrain speed, (4th - 3rd - 2nd) however if you tried to just go from 4th to 2nd (skipping 3rd) without double clutching the synchros would need to catch up more, wear more and the shift would be slower than if you double clutched, as you are manually spinning up the layshaft when you blip in neutral with double clutching.

>>16634733

What does a burning clutch smell like? Please don't tell me it smells like burning brakes because I have no idea what that smells like either.

>>16636795
cant really describe it its quite distinct. When it burns off its not fucked imediatly but you should get it checked out.

>>16636795
If you have to ask you ain't smelt it, so you don't need to worry.

>>16634691
basically if you have to raise your foot really high to get a some torque your clutch is almost done
so watch out and plan to replace it before it actually happens

>>16636787 cont
In all traditional rev matching is the way to go. For example, say from 4th to 3rd
>clutch in
>move shifter to 3rd
>blip throttle while clutch is still in
>let out clutch
All of this is happening simultaneously, the smoothest way for all this to happen is the timing of the blip; ideally right before the clutch bites, so really you'll be letting out the clutch and blipping the throttle at the same time

Anyway, the reason this works the way it does is because while the clutch disconnects the engine from the transmission for the most part, it is still connected (by the layshaft, I believe) this is why your shifts will be slower if you try to go from 5th to 3rd without double clutching, because when you double clutch you disconnect everything and manually bring everything up to speed.

>>16636577
>Smoother downshifts.
>Fun.
>good sound
>enjoyable
>car jerks less meaning you won't waste grip when you need it

If you like driving there's always a reason to double clutch.

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How do I learn to drive and start and stop in hills? I'm getting a manual soon as the first car brought with my own money.

Any other tips with hill/mountain driving?

>>16636803
>>16636808

Would it smell like rotten eggs?

>>16636413
Don't do that, you are only wearing out your clutch. You can do that in an automatic because nothing is wearing down, you are just spinning a paddle in a liquid. But in a manual you are rubbing two surfaces together, like your face on the asphalt when you fly over the handlebars on a bike

>>16636795
It's almost a burning plastic smell but more sharp and chemically

What is the standard procedure for minimal wear on clutch/transmission when coming to a stop?

>>16636378
slowly let clutch out while slowly giving gas, clutch in to brake

repeat until you get good

>>16636905
>see red light/stop sign/idiot stopped on major highway for no reason
>clutch in, brake
>pull out of gear if you're going to be sitting
>clutch out
Holding the clutch in and in 1st while waiting at a light will wear out the throw out bearing

>>16636872
Find an empty parking lot with an incline, or a rarely used road you can practice inclines on.

The trick is knowing when your clutch catches, and applying throttle slowly letting it out. Eventually you'll get to the point where you will barely roll back, if at all. Just don't do:
>clutch in, slowly letting out while giving gas
>roll foward
>let off gas, roll back
>repeat

that will wear your clutch prematurely

>>16636921

Is it bad to put it in neutral and brake to a stop?

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>>16636795
ever drive near a commercial truck that locked up the rear brakes? Clutch smells similar to brakes.

I've driven my car for 5+ years now, I bought a replacement clutch like 3 weeks into ownership and it still grabs just fine. 134k miles on the original clutch (original owner got the car repo'd, prev owner bought it at 10k, I bought it at 96k) and I've been to the track 3 times, and I've dragged a few times but on the street.

tl;dr gid gud.

>>16636936
no that's fine a lot of anons here from eurocuckistan will frown on it but really there's no harm.

>>16636849
I just rev match or heel/toe if I want smooth downshifts. No real need to double clutch unless your car is lacking in synchros.

>>16636873
No, rotten eggs are typically exhaust fumes. Check out where your header and catalytic converter meet, I'm willing to bet that there is a leak.

>>16636905
>stop sign ahead
>shift down to a decently low gear, usually 2nd and begin braking
>once you're pretty much stopped (10-15mph) just clutch in and change to neutral, then continue braking, though there won't be much left to do
>leave in neutral while at light or sign and wait

alternatively >>16636921 works, just depends when you want to shift into neutral really. Keep in mind though that when you engage the clutch or go into neutral (all minor technicalities aside) you are disconnecting the transmission from the engine, and will be in less control the the car. This is why it's dangerous to put your car in neutral or put the clutch in at like 40 mph then try to brake; slow down first to around 10mph be it purely engine braking, or a combination of a lower gear and physical braking

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>>16636849
I'm >>16636946 and I never double clutch unless its 0 or colder outside. Shifting into 2nd and 3rd when the trans is dead cold will be notchy and will sometimes grind, only REALLY cold ambient temperature days. Havent had it happen this year yet.

pic unrelated

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>>16636966
10-15mph is FLYING through a stop sign bro.

I usually downshift into 1st, pull the idle down a little (~500rpm or so) which I consider a stop and take off from there, that's basically walking speed.

>>16636989
nevermind, it turns out my reading comprehension is no.

>>16634774
Usually when the clutch releases earlier or later than it should it is a good sign that it needs replacing. It's hard to notice though as it doesn't happen instantly

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>>16636872
When I need to stop in a hill I just leave it neutral and when I'm at the top I just use my handbrake.
Then slowly disengage the clutch while taking of the handbrake and using a little gas (the car should not move backwards when it hits the biting point) and then you're good to go.

>>16636724
This.
My car has worn out syncros on the first and second gears to the point when it becomes impossible to downshift without double clutching

>>16634691
Just got my first manual car (only previous experience with a manual was a 1980 pickup with non- adjusting bench seats, when I was 8)

After ~20 miles of driving I can set off from a stop relatively smoothly ~80% of the time but this process takes 5-10 seconds.

Should I be trying to get faster or will that simply come with time and I should focus on being smooth?

>>16634922
How about using only the clutch to get up very slight inclines like a driveway.

I like to back into my driveway and for the life of me can't do it while using the accelerator. feels like it goes way too fast for me. is it bad to use only the clutch to get moving everytime I go to park.

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>>16637081
You cant truly be fast until you're smooth

>insert snarky comment about how I am superior at manual because europoor

>>16637093
I guess I'm just asking if getting faster is something most people put conscious effort into while they're learning or if it's something that generally happens on it's own.

>>16637125
both, however a conscious effort will help you learn faster especially with
quality
>how well/quickly you shift
>quantity
how much you'll learn
>quickness
how fast you'll learn new techniques

>>16637081
Wisdom is gained through experience. Experience is gained from mistakes. Keep at it.

>>16637086
You can do that. However you need to be VERY WELL AWARE of what's the contact point for the clutch. Release too slow = your car will take reverse speed and most likely stall when you release the clutch

release too fast = stalling.

The key is knowing the exact position of YOUR car with YOUR clutch in which the clutch starts to engage.

>>16636872
Get a car with hill assist. Had it on a 2014 Civic Si and now on my 2015 STI. Makes life a hell of a lot easier.

>tfw you don't get the 6 speed

How long are you supposed to slip the clutch when you take off in first? It probably takes 3-5 seconds for me to release the clutch completely when taking off because I'm still learning and I don't want to damage my clutch

>>16639209
Depends on how long until you reach idle speed on first gear and how fast you can do it without stalling the car

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>>16636913
>repeat until you get good
git gud

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>>16637093
>You cant truly be fast until you're smooth
>>16637325
Quality advice.

>>16639146
I don't know about the others here but hill assist takes away from the purity simplicity of driving manual in my opinion.

>>16636378
To be fair, if you can't manage to learn on your own, find someone who knows and have them passenger up with you and teach you. alot of it is feeling the car, Which you likely wont be able to do until you're comfortable with the car, (not looking at the speedometer or reading your RPMs to know when to shift) you should be able, after a time, to clutch in and shift smoothly just by feeling how fast or slow you are going. I used to stare at my speedo for direction on when to shift my first few weeks. I learned from scratch on a manual truck so it was probably the best case scenario because it was cable and hydraulic everything. none of the electric nannies

>>16641408
My dad taught me by listening to the engine. When it is slower and low pitch then do not shift up. When it starts getting faster and higher pitch then it is time to shift up.

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This thread angers me

>Steps to git gud at stick
>Written by a drunk burger

Step 0(Empty space)
>Find an empty parking lot or somewhere with lots of space for you to fuck around
>Even better if it has a flat section and a slight hill somewhere
>Find spectators so they can laugh as you fail to do the next steps

Step1 (Learn bite point)
>let out clutch slowly till car starts to creep forward
>Get car moving on flat surface without using throttle
>Do this without stalling out

Step 2 (Throttle control)
>Now that you know where clutch grabs
>Same as step one but use throttle this time
>Slowly add throttle as you are letting clutch out (how much throttle depends car to car)
>Repeat until you can go from stopped to moving without being jerky as fuck

Step 3 (Hill Starts)
>Learn to do step 2 while on an incline without rolling backwards
>This is pretty much the same as step 2 but you will roll backwards if you are not fast enough
>add throttle while getting to bite point quickly

(Bitchmode Hillstarts)
>Usehandbrake to prevent rolling backwards
>Same as step 3

Step 4 (Downshifting)
>Learn what the RPM difference between gears
>Learn to blip throttle for desired RPM
>Match RPM with gear you want
>Go down 1 gear (5th-4th/4th-3rd)
>I'm almost a racecar driver mode down 2 gears on one blip
>Practice till you can do this not jerky as fuck

Step 5(Pracetice Practice Practice)
>Go drive
>Go drive more
>Keep doing all these things till you can do them without thinking about it

Step 6 (I'm fucking Dagumi now)
>Now that you can drive and are not jerky as fuck
>Heel Toe Dopwnshift
>Same as step 4
>Left half of ball of foot on brake
>While pushing brake either roll side of foot to blip throttle or twist and use heel to blip throttle (depends on car and pedal distance/setup) do whatever works for you there isnt a right way to do it
>Get the gear you want
>you now down a gear/slowed down and ready to go WOT out of the turn.
>foot off brake and onto throttle

>>16634691
it took 75k-ish miles before my car needed a new clutch and i'm fairly certain the previous owner was at least 1/3rd retarded, so they were probably unkind to it.

>>16636808
this

the first time i ever experienced clutch problems it was slipping as i pulled away and *that smell* came with it, hard to describe but if you can smell something awful while your clutch is fucking up, that's what it is.

was that clear? i don't know.

>>16641642
>(Bitchmode Hillstarts)
>Usehandbrake to prevent rolling backwards

that's not bitchmode, that's normalmode

>>16634691
Please remove this thread. I'm a girl, I literally CAN'T drive a manual

Tell me why I shouldn't buy this, /o/

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/5993219738.html


I just want a car to learn stick. Guy claims she's in good shape. This model has a timing chain, not a timing belt.

>chrysler

This is my major concern. Lots of complaints for this vehicle. Lots of engine problems.

The guy agreed to $1500 cash after I inspect and test drive.

>>16641682
Not once in my entire life have a used a handbrake on a hillstart. even when I was learning to drive.

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>>16641689
>I'm a girl

>>16641698
>1500 for a car with problems
Be wary. If you are gonna do more than spend over a thousand in a trainer vehicle and maybe DD'it. Think about looking over rust and shit.

>>16641700
congrats would like me to bake you a cake

>>16641738
Yes please.

>>16641738
No, seems to me using the handbrake is bitchmode though. If thats how you have to do it then by all means use handbrake

>>16641752
so explain how to do it without rolling backwards?
>start car on hill
>put in gear
>find bite point with gas
>third leg on the footbrake to stop it rolling?

?????????

>>16641727

To clarify: the vehicle I'm inspecting supposedly doesn't have problems. The 2002 Jeep Liberty in general did have a lot of common drivetrain issues.

>>16641752
i'm just messing with you for being a special snowflake. I learned with a handbrake then quickly learned you can do it with only pedals.

>>16641766
>on hill
>1st
>foot on brake
>clutch right near bite point as you're about to take off
>let off brake
>clutch is at biting point
>right foot to throttle and drive like normal (red line every gear is normal)

you can sorta heel toe it if you have lmao no torque.

>>16641810
if you can do that it doesn't sound like an actual hill

>>16641816
Woman detected

>>16641816
>no torque babbies

>>16634691
Is it bad to push the accelerator a small amount as you are letting out the clutch? My shifts are way smoother if I do that, but will it wear the clutch faster significantly?

>>16641810
Pretty much this. You just let out clutch and add gas much faster than you would if you were on a flat surface. I guess it might suck if your car is a gutless shitbox but it's doable

>>16641927
none at all. Its encouraged and a great idea.

>>16641810
sounds like you're ruining your clutch desu

meh
>>16641888
lonely virgin detected

if I'm on an incline and stopped, can I just dump the clutch while already rolling forward or should I do the normal getting moving procedure

>>16634846
Also happens when you live in a city with a lot of traffic with a lot of steep roads like Hong Kong.

>>16642054
You should let your engine at least revmatch before letting the clutch go completely

>>16642042
Assmad GM fangirl detected

>>16642042
If you do it fast there isn't much of a difference than if you used handbrake hill start

>>16636795
Blowtorch some plastic and metal

>>16641949
Just to clarify I mean going from first to second, not from a stop.

>>16642798
Yes. Giving it gas before you let go of the clutch when shifting up to avoid jolts is exactly what RPM matching is about

If my starts are a bit jerky what is that a sign of that I am doing wrong?

>>16645537
>Bottom
your starts are jerky is the sign you are doing it wrong

>>16645541
what part of it am i doing wrong?

>>16645606
clutch to fast, not enough gas one of those things

>>16636873
Usually a catalytic converter when the car is still getting up to temp

>>16636936
No, it wears your brakes rather than your clutch, but obviously you're not using any engine braking, so different characteristics when slowing.

>>16639209
Hard to say, depends on circumstances, but that doesn't sound a million miles off.

If I'm driving around in 4th, what sort of reasoning and when would I shift down to 3rd? or even 2nd gear?

and if my car lugs a bit when I shift what am i doing wrong?

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>>16641642
seriously, thank you for putting this into words. this'll help me teach my cousin

>saved for posterity

So rev matching basically makes it so your downshift feels like an upshift? I've been driving manual ute for work which has been fun but I'm still learning.

>>16645860
Its so it doesn't lurch. Makes it smooth

>>16645873
But it's possible to change down without the lurch without applying throttle though. Is it typically for older cars in a non-race setting?

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>Mfw there's a thread about burgers learning how to ride manual.

Jesus Christ, you guys are pathetic.

>>16645881
>implying you were never a beginner

stop being a total faggot bro

>>16645886
I was a beginner, for that I went to drivers school.

Learned everything there.

>>16645889
>paying to learn to drive
Jesus christ

>when you live in yurop so driving manuals is a second nature
amerifats desu

>>16645920
yes.
I have been using auto for a while now but I hate it.
Getting rid of it asap.
If I want something with a mind of its own I'll get a cat

>>16645920
Same in southamerica but i wont laugh at them. People aren't born with knowledge.

>>16645890
That's why you have such higher road mortality rates.

You let every faggot ride a car without testing them properly.

Wait, wasn't there a video on /o/ about an American woman that couldn't figure out how to take her foot away from the gas pedal and had to call the cops?

>>16645962
>I'm American
News to me lad

>>16645537
Remember, slow is smooth, and smooth becomes fast

You're not racing, just take it slow. The biggest advice I got when I first started (and I've only been driving manual for a few months) is get the clutch at the bite point and hold it there, then give it gas as if it was automatic. Thats how I got my starts to be smooth

>>16645962
>an American woman that couldn't figure out how to take her foot away from the gas pedal and had to call the cops?
Googled it. Its not that she couldn't take the foot off, its that the throttle body got stuck and the car went full WOT even when she was trying to brake.

>>16636872
>How do I learn to drive and start and stop in hills?
Hill starts are like normal starts, only you need to use more gas. Starting going downhill just means you're picking up speed faster.

>Any other tips with hill/mountain driving?
> Uphill
Pick up speed on the flat, don't be afraid to use the hill to bleed off excess
> Downhill
If it's steep enough to worry about, use a lower gear to engine-brake, and use the brakes to stop your momentum pushing the engine way up the rev counter.

You learn by just doing it. Enough gear changes and it'll just sit in muscle memory and stay there.
Don't take advice from automericans.

>>16636979
Another cold-weather driver!

Just had my first sub-zero manual experience recently. It never occurred to me that both the stick and the clutch would become more stiff at frigid temperatures. It gets better once the car warms up, but man, that first time muscling the car into first at -14F was a shocker.

>>16646036
I doubt that that was the case, when the car was inspected there was no fault and it couldn't be reproduced. The "solution" the 911 operator gave was suspiciously to remove her foot off the accelerator and depress the brake slowly.

Even if that was the case, why didn't she put the car into neutral to brake if it was stuck accelerating? The answer: She was never taught how to drive, just how to press stop and go.

I was thinking, with the impressive amount of people constantly asking for tips on how to drive manuals, that we could make something like a pastebin or a Google doc to slap in the OP with the most common stuff in there.
Something like a short tutorial or a FAQ

What do you guys think?

>>16634713
If it takes less than a year you're probably a pleb. I went from stalling 6 billion times an hour in my first car to easily rowing through that shit easily even on 15+ hour road trips, driving a manuel to an acceptable level is exceedingly easy, mastering it is admittedly far more difficult.

>>16649085
yeah sure

>>16645877
Sounds like synchros to me

>>16645877
That's a standard problem on a Ford Europe gearbox. Make sure you're fully stopped, and double-clutch into reverse, giving it a three-count in neutral.

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When doing hillstart with the handbrake. is it bad to have the car moving a bit before you put the handbrake back down?

like to make sure I have found the grabbing point and giving it enough gas.

will it fuck up my handbrake/brakes doing it that way?

>>16652312
If the handbrake is on, attempting a hillstart, and the car is moving while the brake is on then that's not right.

While the handbrake is on, as you have some gas and let the clutch to the bite point you should feel the car "jerk" forward a little bit, but you shouldn't start moving forward. When you take the brake off the car should now be stationary. Now that the handbrake is out let the clutch out a little more to get the car moving forward, then take off as normal.

>>16651812
What's the fucking point of double clutching to reverse when both shafts of the gearbox need to be stopped before engaging reverse?
You are just losing time by waiting again for the shafts to slow down because you double clutched.

>>16652454
I don't know man, I don't seem to notice the car jerk forward or anything.

like when I take off on a normal flat surface I just give gas and let out the clutch at the same time til it starts going and have a rough idea where the clutch point is. or I lift the clutch up until it starts moving which makes me know I have it

but when just sitting there with my handbrake up and trying to find it I don't seem to notice anything cos the handbrake is preventing it form mvoing

>>16652516
Even with your handbrake pulled, you should notice the car squatting at the rear when trying to move.
If you feel the car squatting and the idle dropping then it means you found the biting point.

You can move in two ways:
- release the handbrake when you feel some squatting, car should stay stationary or slowly crawl backwards, give gas and go.
- start giving a little gas while still on the handbrake, car squats even more, release handbrake and the car should immediately move forward

The second method is quicker and doesn't let the car go backwards, but wears the clutch a little more so you should really use it only when you can perform the whole ordeal quickly. The second method is slower but more beginner-friendly.

It's important to note that the wear on the clutch is very little in both cases unless you are a retard and spend minutes with the clutch on the biting point and the brake pulled. Don't start being paranoid about destroying your clutch, because that won't happen, you are still using the clutch as intended.

>>16652472
The point is that it doesn't fucking go into reverse sometimes unless you double-clutch.

>>16652764
Then there is something wrong with the gearbox, because my car and all the manuals I've driven never had to be babysitted like that.
Especially in those cars that have a synchronized reverse where you literally can't fuck up the engagement like in a traditional reverse

>>16652771
It's a Ford Europe gearbox quirk. Sometimes it doesn't go into reverse unless you double-clutch it.