Is AWD a meme for street driving in snow? Automaker marketing

>>16609931
It's amazing in snow

Also awd is great for accelerating

>>16609931
>Automaker marketing departments have conditioned me to think that I need AWD over FWD
You're a fucking idiot

>>16609931
It's an easier sell than getting stupid burgers to actually buy and alternate sets of season-specific tires. FWD + Snow Tires is better than AWD on M+S. RWD + Snow Tires is debatable.

All I want is an awd sedan/coupe with manual for under 30k

But all I can find is a new wrx

The BMW 335i X drive in manual is too expensive and there aren't a lot of them anywhere

>>16609944
awd>rwd>fwd

>>16609957
>mfw still rolling all seasons 24/7 in a place where the winters are severe in a rwd v8

lern 2 drive faggots

>>16609957
>FWD + Snow Tires is better than AWD on M+S.
I would just get snow tires with awd and be better regardless

The debate of fed with snow vs awd and all seasons is dumb as fuck

I don't know why the hell the AWD meme is spreading like fucking wildfire nowadays. Unless you do 98% of your daily driving in snow AWD is completely unnecessary.
>Muh acceleration
Never driven RWD faggot?
>Clutch wear instead of wheel slip, oh hellllll yeah man!
>One tire gets damaged, fuck it you gotta replace all 4 fuck you. You got the $$$ since you bought AWD anyway
>Open diff on both axles, don't mind that because fuck it man AWD!!!
>Having 4 driven wheels allows you to break physics and have unlimited grip all the time
>Man that is totally realistic and not completely retarded at all!

Dumbest fucking auto meme I have seen in a long ass time.

Stopping is more important than getting going in the snow. Getting going is just a matter of throttle control, making sure your driven wheels aren't literally stuck in a snowbank, and once you're on the road, not acting like a jerkass. You never know when you'll have to slam your brakes because some retard slides out in front of you on bald all-seasons.

Snow tires will help you stop. AWD will not.

>>16609958
Maybe it's cause you shouldn't buy a car based off of how meme worthy it is?
>Think about why you are only finding wrx's
That should give you at least a little insight

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Did you know that if you get an AWD you are king of the snow and you will never lose grip

>>16609961
FWD has an inherent advantage over RWD in snow due to more weight being over the driving tires. Get the fuck out.

>>16610072
Weight moves to the rear when accelerating and oversteer is easier to correct than understeer.

Get the car you want, any drive train layout is workable as long as you're smart and get winter tires.

I'm driving a damn rwd in new england and I was passing awd cars in all-seasons during our last storm.

>>16609961
for snow driving

4x4>awd>rwd>fwd

Biggest problem in snow is starting and stopping movement. AWD helps with starting. AWD doesn't help with stopping or turning. The quality and tread of your tires helps with that. The benefit of FWD over RWD is that you can turn the driving tires to help get started while RWD you're at the mercy of however you stopped.

FWD with good high tread snow tires will be better than AWD with lesser tires.

I like my AWD just because I can do sweet ass drifts in the snow and feel like a rally driver.

>>16609967
Watch your following distance. I'll stop on a dime - will you?

>>16610897
What's the difference between 4x4 and awd?

>>16611196
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4iI1ZfSS18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPZmP4JWJcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGHYZAxKxs4

>>16609931
It IS good in snow. AWD first appeared as 4WD in trucks and eventually migrated to cars in the early 1980's with the Audi Quattro (introduced in 1980) and the AMC Eagle (introduced in 1980). While the Audi was revolutionizing the world of rally, the AMC Eagle showed ordinary people how good AWD was.

Granted before this, there was the Subaru Leone, but they were primarily bought by farmers. The Subaru Leone didn't start gaining traction (pun not intended) until after the success of the Eagle and Quattro.

That said, you need to research the AWD system of the car you're looking at. Haldex systems are common and are proven to work.

However, some cars with AWD systems should be ignored. Like the Honda CR-V. Like a Haldex system, it's supposed to send power to the rear wheels when the front wheels spin... but it doesn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiv-bWbLIo

>>16609931
AWD+Snow tires is basically a godsend for really bad snow.
Basically:
AWD+Snowtires>RWD+ST>FWD+ST>AWD>RWD>FWD

>>16610845
I'll remember that when I'm spinning my wheels in snow at a fucking stop sign.

AWD helps significantly in unplowed parking lots and side streets. You can feel the grip difference driving in icy and snowy conditions, even with your normal tires. You'll still slip when turning and stopping though.

Winter tires, however, are AMAZING. The difference blew me away. Even on a RWD car, winter tires (I got Blizzaks) made me unafraid to drive long distances or even through curvy mountain roads in the snow.

Tl;Dr - you don't need AWD in snow, but it helps a lot. And once you have winter tires you'll swear by them. Winter tires are just magic. AWD + winter tires would obviously be ideal

>>16611196
AWD has 3 differentials, 4x4 turns all/some of the wheels at the same speed when engaged, hence warnings to not use 4x4 on pavement. Which one is better depends on the circumstances.

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>>16611349
>AWD has 3 differentials

WRONG

NOT ALL AWD SYSTEMS ARE THE SAME

>>16611215
Ugh, do you fuckers even bother to research this at all?

The reason you get no power at the rear wheels with zero traction at the front is because, with zero traction at the front, you have no control of the car. Engineers decided it was safer to not go anywhere than it was to move with zero ability to turn.

>>16611360
AWD *typically* has 3 differentials.

KYS you pedantic fuck.

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>>16610033
Audibly kek'd

>>16610897
t.has never seen snow
Actual ranking
awd>4x4>fwd>>>>>>>rwd

>>16609931
Unless you get LSD in every differential or have torque vectoring, it's pointless.
>One wheel slips anytime
>Now you have no traction at all

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>>16611384

>>16611362
>The reason you get no power at the rear wheels with zero traction at the front is because, with zero traction at the front, you have no control of the car. Engineers decided it was safer to not go anywhere than it was to move with zero ability to turn.
>making excuses for "AWD" FWD systems
disgusting. do us all a favor and kill yourself

>>16611385
Shhh no physics only memes now

It's good for getting unstuck.

Winter tires actually cost less than AWD purchase and upkeep.

If you can somehow stay on point with worn all seasons, winter tires will make you the grip master.

I wonder how long this one will last

>>16611385
>Thinks there is a difference between awd and 4wd.
Way to buy into marketing bs.

>>16610845
How much weight transfer does a piece of soap gliding on smooth wet surface experience? It's as if grip had something to do with it, weird!

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>it's a "burgers discover winter tires" episode

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>>16612068
>Alaska
>California
>Everything in between
>All in the same country

Yeah okay. Burgers know more varying terrain than any Eurocuck.

Wow, I never thought of AWD as a replacement for winter tyres.

>>16611385
t. someone who has never driven in over a foot of snow

>>16611211
ty. didn't know.

>>16609931
I live in Seattle where it rarely snows. It rains a bit but not a horrid amount most days.
I have an AWD wagon as it was the right price at the right time.
That being said, AWD is useless 98% of the time. That 2% though is completely worth it.
When it's raining a lot and I'm doing 70 on sheets of water hydroplaning regularly, the AWD just keep pulling. On the rare occasion it snows, it handles wonderfully. The thing I like most though is when it hasn't rained for a week or so and has just started to drizzle so the roads are slick as shit, you can floor it and it just goes. No fuss, no tire spin, just goes.

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Can someone explain to my mentally challanged friend the difference between FWD and RWD and why most /o/tists preffer the latter?

>>16612465
Front Wheel Drive drags the car from the front

Rear Wheel Drive pushes the car from behind.

Dragging is usually less efficient, and so a FWD layout will ordinarily be slower than a RWD layout with the same amount of power and torque.

There are subtleties to how each layout responds to different conditions, and how it corners, but these are nebulous and can be chalked up to preference when explaining to the uninitiated.

>>16612465
In an effort to jump in before the ridicule...

FWD = FRONT wheel drive
RWD = REAR wheel drive

Ergo, the wheels that are being driven by the engine.
Both have their strong point and weak points. But generally, especially by aut/o/motive enthusiasts, RWD is preferred as it 'pushes' the car as opposed to FWD which 'pulls' the car. Pushing is preferred because it leads to better handling through corners. When driving it feels like you're in a lot more control.

>>16609931
I DD a RWD in snowy conditions in central Canada (which is molesting the Arctic circle)

I'm fine until the snow in the road gets thicker than 1 foot, but that's got more to do with ground clearance.

With good winter tires, AWD will launch more reliably than RWD, while FWD struggles and spins. Handling wise, all 3 are fine, except when freezing rain is falling.

With all seasons or summers, the ass end of a RWD will spin out once you're above 50kmh. The FWD won't spin out, but it corners poorly and struggles to accelerate from a dead stop. The AWD will accelerate quickly and corner really well. All 3 are useless when nature decides to ruin you day, and the road is somehow black ice, coated in a thin, shimmering layer of water at -10°.

>>16612485
>>16612495

Ooh, alright thanks. I usually heard people claiming they will never buy a RWD because they're hard to handle in winter conditions (although I live in a temperate environment and the lowest-average temperature is around -10 anyway).

>I usually heard people claiming they will never buy a RWD because they're hard to handle in winter conditions
>>16612548
Well... yeah. That's true.
If you end up in a skid or a slid with an RWD car you're only escape is to let off the gas and steer where you want to go. Seeing as you've already lost grip at that point throttling up won't do anything but makes your rear tires skid faster.

With a FWD it's a lot easier. If your back end gives and starts to slide you simple steer in the direction you want to go and floor the gas pedal and wait for the front tires to 'pull' you out of the skid.

>>16609958

I'm getting an S5 V8 soon. They're already around 20k here in europoor.

quattro + V8 + manuel = sexy as fuck

>>16610897
Rofl rofl rofl. Are you from Florida?

>>16612564
What if you have a rear engine RWD layout like a 70's Super Beetle?

>>16612564
>If you end up in a skid or a slid with an RWD car you're only escape is to let off the gas and steer where you want to go. Seeing as you've already lost grip at that point throttling up won't do anything but makes your rear tires skid faster.
Confirmed never driven RWD. You countersteer and control the angle of the slide with the throttle, turning a loss of control into a drift. I do it all the time. Git fuckin gud.
>With a FWD it's a lot easier. If your back end gives and starts to slide you simple steer in the direction you want to go and floor the gas pedal and wait for the front tires to 'pull' you out of the skid.
If your front wheels in a FWD have already lost traction, giving it more gas only encourages understeer and you're gonna slam into a curb or fly off into a ditch. I've experienced this IRL so don't try to tell me I'm wrong. You can't correct a FWD loss of control with more throttle. You let off the gas until the wheels slow enough to grip again and control your angle with the e-brake.
Your post is some of the worst advice I've ever heard in my life.

>>16612620
Pretty much the same.

But don't drive a classic super beetle in the winter man. Rust will take it from you.

>>16612635
>you countersteer and control the angle of the slide with the throttle, turning a loss of control into a drift. I do it all the time. Git fuckin gud.

This works if you actually have some traction despite skidding. You're basically explaining how to drift.

We where talking about winter conditions. When you skid on icy roads your car won't be following any form of curvature around the corner you're trying to take. It goes straight out.

Which nicely forks over to the FWD portion of your post.
>You can't correct a FWD loss of control with more throttle.
Uhhh... yes you can (and should). Especially in winter conditions. 1. Point where you want to go. 2. Stomp the gas pedal. That easy.

How you're explaining how to regain control over a FWD is actually what you should be doing in a RWD. Sans the emergency brake. Even just looking at the emergency brake in ANY car you've lost control over will fuck you over greatly when skidding on snow. RWD or FWD alike.

I think the meat of our differences comes from driving conditions. I was discussing icy roads and why RWD scares the average joe in the winter.

>>16612677
tl;dr pointless discussion
>>16612635
this anon has it right

you are a rwd virgin, stfu

>>16612709
I bet you did read it. And i'll bet that anon is you.

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>>16612719
typical civic driver

>>16612724
Wouldn't even want to be caught dead in one.

Listen man, and this too goes for the anon who initially asked the question. Don't take my word for it.

A slip&skid driving course is a couple of hundred dollars well spend having a professional teach you how to control your car in a bind. Especially if you live somewhere with annual harsh winters and the slippery icy roads what come with them.

>>16612677
>I think the meat of our differences comes from driving conditions. I was discussing icy roads
Me too you dumb nigger, I live near the canadian border. I have a FWD car and a RWD car and plenty of experience driving both, and the only time I've actually lost control is understeering and hitting a curb in my FWD shitbox. I can always recover my RWD with countersteering. When FWD loses traction, you're FUCKED. You can't just point it where you want to go and throttle, because that only makes the loss of traction worse. If ONLY the back end loses traction, who gives a shit? Those wheels are just along for the ride. And the reason it lost traction is because there's no weight on the back because FWD is a shit design. But if all four wheels are sliding you cannot recover it, you just let off the power and hope to every conceivable god that your car stops or straightens itself before hitting something.

If you apply throttle and steer correctly when losing control with RWD, you can turn the loss of traction into drift angle, every time. The only exception is if you're on sheer ice, like a hockey rink, in which case there's probably a state of emergency in effect and you shouldn't be on the road at all.

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>>16610033
>open diff on both axles
suck me pleb

>>16609931
Do you need it? No. Your econobox will be fine with only FWD

Is it better? Yes, you can hit the gas harder without spinning. You can't stop or turn any better though

Traction thread game

FWD / RWD

Loss of traction
-Front
-Rear
-Both

Because
-Driver induced
-Throttle
-Brake
-Steering
-Handbrake
-Road
-Rolled from high to low grip surface
-Rolled from low to high grip surface
-Both of above but left or right side.

At velocity where
-Attainable total grip is enough to complete the curve
-Attainable total grip is not enough to complete the curve

Pick a combination. Guess the correction. Predict the outcome.

Post your argument.

To make it true to /o/, you must hide the premise you argue for. Likewise assume a premise for other arguments and call them out for being wrong. We can make this board great!

>>16612744
2wd is shit on icy/winter roads doesnt fucking matter fwd or rwd, anyone with half a brain knows its 4x4 or bust in canada during winter