Do you like or dislike German engineering?

>>16403280
>several kilograms of chains
>not just using belts

yeah german engineering alright

>>16403291
Fun fact, they went from belts to chains because people complained that the entire fucking front of the car had to come off in order to change said belts.

>>16403297
>well, we could make it easier to change the belts
>no that would be too simple

Dislike

Over engineered bullshit, especially now that basically every Luxury manufacturer are making slow soap bars now.

>>16403280
Once in a while they hit something great, but I'm big fan of simplicity. KISS. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. Unless you absolutely need some specific ultraperformance to land a probe on pluto or something, this dumb phrase is almost always right. Complexity often a sign of bad design.

>>16403297
>go from belts to chains
>turn engine around
>engine now has to be dropped to service the chains because they fail anyway

german engineering folks

>>16403307
Basically.
It also allowed them to shorten the engine by like 3" front to back, so they could stuff it in the new S4 so I suppose that's neat.

>>16403297
>Get rid of belts
>Install chains that are designed to last for a lifetime
>Don't upgrade the chain tensioners and followers, etc
>Engine explodes after chain derails

German engineering.

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>>16403280

>wanting to save weight

>OHC

>>16403297
No they didnt

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>>16403280
It makes me rock hard every time I drive it, so I guess that means I like it.

>>16403343
Look it up, the old Audi V8s used belts.

>>16403335
Are there any cars that keep it simple these days, though?

Not even Chevy V8's are simple anymore.

>>16403342
This. If they wanted to save weight they should have bought some LS engines from chebby and they have the added side effect of real power..

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>>16403346
Timing belt is super complicated though

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I want a car with German fit and finish, an American power train, and Japanese everything else. Is that too much to ask?

>>16403348
Most old cars used belts but that doesnt mean they changed to chains because changing belts is difficult.

>>16403370
Not murican power train, but Volvo S80 can come with an Yamaha V8 and the sweeds are pretty good at interiors

>>16403280
I like it. It's not bad, gets a little showy sometimes and it bites them in the ass but those Nazis don't fuck around

>>16403370
Time for a LS swap.

But for real, now the japs are making cars with chinese steel, german engines and american interiors. fucking end it.

>>16404071
Dey expensive though.s80 V8 are super rare too

>>16403280
Why is it ford can do this with two simple chains that are easy to replace?

Belt driven water pumps are so much better.

>>16403280
Don't those chain tensioners add a considerable amount of parasitic loss to the engine?

Why not just put a 15-25hp electric motor on the front to generate electricity and only parasite the engine when you need it?

>>16405368
>Electrically-driven camshafts

I bet the Germans would do it too

>>16403354
Ya huh
>1 cam
>1 chain
>2 gears
>16 Pushrods
>central throttle (instead of being to a side)
>Supercharger if you're feeling frisky
The most advanced thing they have aside from EFI is being able to advance and retard the cam for vvt

>>16405368
Very little.

Does the chain tensioner on your bicycle produce 15 HP of parasitic loss? You wouldn't be able to pedal it.

>>16405527
EFI isn't really that complicated, people have replaced ECUs with Arduinos.

>>16405527
You make it sound simple but the reality is different. A late 90s V8 audi is far simpler.

>>16405527
Also cylinder bank deactivation

>>16405520
How about electric accesories, and gear driven cams?

>>16403280
>fewer parts to do the same job
this is not very German at all ?

>>16403280
Is that one chain doubled up on itself?

>>16403280
>i'm german
>i'm an engineer
>i like my job
Yes

>>16405536
That's what I was trying to imply
>>16405541
But that was back when Germany was good so its an unfair comparison
>>16405587
True, but that's as simple as
>If speed > 35 and gear = 6 then cyl-diac == 1 else cyl-diac ==0

>>16405607
>gear driven cams

Harmonics-fucking, expensive, heavy bullshit for people who can't design reliable chain-driven cams. They're not advantageous for maintaining accurate valve timing until you start getting into the rev ranges and power outputs of F1 engines, and the odd motorcycle.

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>>16403280
Fun Fact, Porsche is historically unreliable over Maybach/Benz.

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>>16405760
source?

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>>16405760
source u fucking faggot ree

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>>16405843
and they kept getting bested by henschel

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>>16403280
>audi
>part of VW Group
>extra chromosomes for all employees

BMW and Mercedes tell VW group jokes to each other.

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>>16403371
except in old Audi's, you really had to take a ton of the front end off to replace these in service intervals.

I've seen it first hand, makes subaru belt jobs look like a joke

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i only like german beer. they got that right.
their cars? i prefer italian.
maybe its too many cars came with bosch K jetronic

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>>16408351
>i prefer italian.

>>16405520
Most new Mercedes are going to have such a system.

i-6 or i-4 mild hybrids. No chain/belts for accessories. Instead of the accessories sucking up 15hp under load, it adds a bit of horsepower.

It's basically like having a slightly bigger starter motor, and making use of it outside of just starting the engine.

>>16403280
german engineering is shit

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German 'engineering' is just to make everything more complicated and hope it doesn't break.

B R I T A I N
R
I
T
A
I
N

>>16405760
Only because Ferdinand tried to put his hybrid bullshit into every tank

>>16408338
>Oh, no, I have to take off the whole front end that is designed from factory to be removed to service the belts and it comes off with a few bolts, complete with radiators, condenser, fans, headlights and frames still in place so you don't have to take everything apart and it allows you to have all the space you need and to work comfortably from the front instead of cramming your arms from above between the engine and the front end of the car.

Dear god what a difficult job indeed.

You mean over-engineering? It's been like that for ages - even their tanks in WWII were shit. Nothing has changed

>>16403280
Necessary evil, without it or Japanese engineering the car would would stagnate.

Dislike. I have learned via my relatives' decisions to own german cars.

Not even once.

Okay let me rephase.

Never will own a german car off warranty.

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>>16405531
Does my bike chain tensioner need to withstand 7000rpm and forces far beyond the scope of pedal power?

>>16410857
Gee I wonder where all the British car makers are now? Could it be that British Leyland killed the British car industry? Or is it because those crooked toothed fucks were too busy drinking and striking to actually build something of quality?

>>16403354
These days, it's the DOHC I4. Everything is on top. You don't have two heads, intakes, exhaust, etc. Quite easy to work on.

When you require more power, there is a tiny turbo.

This is the future. I4s for everyone.

>>16411194
what about Lucas? i heard it was unreliable piece of dogshit that sometimes couldn't even last few hours

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>>16405368
a 25hp electric motor isn't small and light

plus you'll need to greatly enlarge the generator and battery to accommodate the extra power consumption (a typical car alternator provides 100 A, a 25hp electric motor needs 150 A)

mechanical to electrical to mechanical conversion would probably cause more losses than a chain tensioner

and finally, all of this shit will be far less reliable than a chain and a few pulleys

>>16412051
12V should be deprecated

>>16403331
>Over engineered

the word you are looking for is bloated. over engineering means designing the machine beyond what the intended scope was. germans don't do that, they design very specifically with a high attention to detail.

if you want a good example of over engineering, look at early Ford tractors or 90's toyotas.

>>16412074
It's true that 12V is low for the amount of electric shit in modern cars simply due to the thickness of wires required (and using body as negative terminal causes lots of problems), but making the alternator output 100 times the voltage at 1/100 of the current wouldn't make it significantly smaller, just significantly more dangerous.

>>16403297
Yeah well, now you need to pull the engine out to get to the chains. Smart people.

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German engineering is a meme

>>16412091
I think Chrysler and Mercedes made it pretty far into testing 48v and 72v but it never made it to a production car. It would be tough because you would need all new fuses, wiring, modules, etc. which those companies buy in huge quantities, if they switched the individual units would cost a ton more until it got established across multiple brands. It wouldn't have been that big of a change in the early 90s, but now it's almost too late, a lot of cars have 50+ modules

TFW American cars are actually now more reliable and better quality builds than germies cars. Also perform better in general, lol someome post that good priced performance Camaro vs overpriced BMW M pic

>>16412579
Pretty sure Mercedes just put 48v engines into production m8

>>16412724
Nah mate, the new V8 is a 32v.

>>16403280
dislike. If i can't put a new battery in a car and just turn the key and drive, it's shit.

>>16412836
why cant you?

>>16412579
I was in the industrial battery business back in the '90's and I saw a few news articles in there about some large, oddball voltage car batteries "to deal with increased electronics"- like 52 volt or something like that. It was in Battery Man magazine.

>>16413525
Why didn't they at least use a single chain for the cams to have 2 chains instead of 3?

This makes no fucking sense.