No one seems to be able to answer this question. Which has a

>FD is smaller than BRZ, has less safety equipment, but weighs more

FA20 is better for CoG and weight I guess. Though the sheer power of the 13B-REW invalidates it.

>>16283099
I'm pretty sure the internals on the FD are beefier, not to mention all the plumbing for the twin turbo. Through a twin turbo on the 86 and beef up the internals and they'd be equal.

>FA20 is better for CoG
So wait, it really does have a lower CoG???

>that roof line

Why isn't the fr-s a hatchback again?

>>16283125
the word you're looking for is fastback, buddy

>>16283086
13B-REW, obviously. Majority of the weight is flush with the transmission FFS.

>>16283099
The FD weighs 2700 lbs and has heavier suspension parts (double wishbone). Plus, that's the weight with the stock exhaust which was autistic. Lighter than the FR-S

>>16283160
>13B-REW, obviously.

Hmm. Is the 13B the lowest CoG engine in a car ever made?

>>16283177
I would say that would be the 26B or the 20B if we're talking production cars

>>16283086
Another point for the FD: tighter chassis and less safety regulations, so the roof is a lot lighter than the Toyobaru's.

>>16283193
What are the actual numbers for the CoG between all 3 if you know them?

>>16283222
I'm curious myself, but I don't know. It just makes the most sense. Turbos mounted low, the keg is lower down and shorter than most engine blocks.

>>16283086
>hey guys i just took statics and want to sound smart for my 4chain dot orge friends

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>>16283232
op here

I actually just want a lightweight car with a low CoG and am deciding on the 2. Was just curious which had a lower one since the boxer gets so much praise for it.

>>16283125

some engineer was being autistic about stiffness

>>16283250

get the br-z if it's your only car or if you want to carry +2 people once in awhile

fd if second car and you have deep pockets

>>16283270
>or if you want to carry +2 people

JDM FD has backseats

>>16283250
I hope you mean if you want to carry a normal passenger and 1.5 midgets. Both cars can do that, but it depends on the midgets.

13b-rew is about 375lbs with trans
Fa20 is about 480lbs with trans

As far cog.. might be a toss up, the block of the 13b is mighty tiny

>>16283585
The block is tiny and it weighs 150 lbs, but that weight is flush with the tranny. The turbos are also low seated. The only thing that's high up is the intake manifold.

Fa20 has lower cog but it's irrelevant when the rotary is smaller and lighter and we'll suited to tiny transverse applications (muh autozam az1)

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>>16283086
I don't know what any of this means.

>>16283295
Completely unusable backseats. Only thing you can fit back there is your dog.

>>16283895
center of gravity= how high the weight of the components of the car sit in the car. Tall trucks, SUVs, etc= high center of gravity= poorer handling. RX7s, FRSs, etc have the motor mounted low and sit low to the ground, meaning a lower center of gravity and better handling.
Polar moment of inertia=when speed and grip during a turn are maxed out. Cars with low centers of gravity are better at this.
IMO, I don't see how the FRS could beat the FD. The motor weighs much less, the car weighs negligibly more (full trim only puts it 100lbs over the FRS), and has wider stock tires (225 vs 215)

>>16283086
That's.. so extremely simple to answer. Why'd you even need to ask?
The FA20 does due to the lower grant shaft position.

If you turned the rotary engine horizontal, with the spark plugs facing downward instead of to its left, (which isn't so simple as they're made to be vertical), then they'd be evenly low but the 13B is lighter, smaller, and shorter.

>>16284345
To clarify, I'm talking about actual center of gravity contribution of the engine itself.

The CoG of the cars are roughly even.

FD: 17"
LFA: 17.5"
FR-s: 18.1"
(These are with stock ride heights, and the FD rides a lot higher than an LFA stock)

I can't think of a car with a lower CoG than the FD. But the OP asked for the actual CoG of the engines, and the 13b sits up fairly high and makes the transmission sit up higher than normal due to the center crank position. But due to the engine itself being so light, it doesn't raise the CoG much.

>>16283086
And for the lower polar moment of inertia question, I'd guess the FR-S.

The FD has considerable overhangs, and those overhangs are steel.
It has lots of heavy steel cross members between each set of wheels.
Heavy 20gal steel gas tank in the back.

And as an own of one, as good as the handling is and grip is, you can definitely feel the polar moment of inertia in it. I'd say it's by far the better handling car and definitely better handling one, regardless, though.

That's a big reason I want that fucking new RX. Aluminum front and back ends like in the ND are a given. And the concept had such low overhangs and looks like it'd have a transaxle.

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>>16283086

Its crazy how big the gt86 is next to old japanese cars.

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>>16284559

>>16283930
Tsuchiya can fit back there and said they were fine on best motoring

>>16283930
>Completely unusable backseats
they're for your midget asian friends

>>16285070
*beautiful Asian girlfriends

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>>16285114
Yeeeee

>>16283086
FA20

FD

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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the 86 chassis is more stiff than the FD

Not to mention, semi practical

>>16286700
Stiffer, larger, lighter about the only thing the two cars have in common is neither have Apex seals,

>>16286653
wrong, stock for stock the FD has a lower cog
>>16286700
>>16286704
The center of mass of the engine is also mounted directly over the front axle, making it highly inferior to every other front mid-engine car (FD, MX-5, S2000, 350/370Z, etc).

It doesn't fucking matter - 10 centimeters here and there. Marketing spiel for gullible idiots. You still have double-glazed windows above it, and maybe even a heavy sunroof.

>>16286948
I didn't specify - I'm talking to CoG in relation to engine placement.

>>16286948
>It doesn't fucking matter

t. assmadcantturn

and you wonder why you're slower on Tsukuba

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>>16286910
Yeah, but the base 370z is 500lbs more, and 5k more.

I prefer the 86

>>16287283
s2000 and mx-5 have either weight or power and cost less

pick the one you want more

>>16287073
Found the busrider

>>16287283
you can pick up a 350z for 6 grand

>>16283086
I wana see a rx7 engine in an frs.
Make it habbenen

>>16283152
No, it is a fastback. He wants to know why it isn't a hatch.

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>>16287295
Not everyone wants to DD a vert.

Detachable hard top is not the same as fixed coupe

These days a used clean frs is almost the same price as a clean s2k

>>16287315
Show me a clean 350z with a manual trans and a HR engine for 6k

>>16287341
>HR engine

What is the point of this stupid condition?
My point was you can get a 350z for 6 grand which-

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/5898412341.html

you can

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>>16287326
>Not everyone wants to DD a vert.

then get a 350z or imported Silvia, both are cheaper

>>16286948
>he doesn't understand how CoG and sprung weight affect handling

>>16283295
Yes, it technically has "seats" in the back. But they aren't usable for anything other than a toddler.

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>>16287442
Maybe lose weight and not be oversized

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>>16287367
Everyone knows 2003z a shit. I would not pay 5900 for that timebomb. Give me a toyota MRS instead

>>16287492
>Everyone knows 2003z a shit
>MRS

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

wew, thanks for hilarious garbage opinion the post

>reminder stock for stock a 350z would smoke everything in this thread except an FD on Tsukuba

>>16284559
>>16284576
You can thank crash safety regulations for that

>>16287492
1999 Toyota Corolla owner here

Stop memeing the MR2 Spyder, it's shit. The Yamaha designed ZZ engines are also shit, including the same 1ZZ in the MR-S that is in my Corolla.

Toyota purposely shipped them with undersized pistons and oversized rings to compensate for a few years resulting in numerous problems and oil burning galore.

>>16287490
>the seat's fine, see this tiny asian guy can fit in it with his knees wedged into his chest

Not all of us are 4 foot tall manlets like you

>>16286953
>I'm talking to CoG in relation to engine placement.
But the thing is... why does that matter? It's a fairly unimportant statistic. The center of gravity of the the car as a whole is really all that's important.

>>16287559
>Michael Schumacher
>Ayrton Senna
>Lewis Hamilton

>all 5'9"

Nah, you just have a garbage height and weight for a driver.

>>16287572
>But the thing is... why does that matter?
Because the fucking original poster brought it up?

>>16287572
>why does that matter?
Stock engine CoG in the chassis will determine the cars overall CoG potential

I wanna make a modern day RX-7 Tribute on an FR-S.

>>16288783
you mean an 86-7?

>>16287490
how much money do you save by shopping in the kids section

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>>16289256
How does it feel knowing you were born never to be a true performance driver in any competition ever?

How is the engine of the FR-S/BRZ mounted over the front axle without affecting the front suspension?

Having the engine that far forward means concessions with the crossmember, sway bar, how much room you have for the suspension since you need more compact wheel wells, etc.

see: how shitty the rear suspension on the Alfa 4c is because of its traverse mounted engine over the rear axle not giving enough room for a proper suspension.

>>16289250
hachiroku-leven

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For those that are interested....

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>>16289569

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>>16289575

>>16289569
Holy shit that engine is mounted up high, and that suspension is compact.

No wonder the car is so shitty and it has an over 1" higher CoG over the FD.

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>>16289604

>>16289575
This is why I call people retards when they think they should put a boxer engine in the RX-Vision concept.

Look at how you have a proper suspension in the rear and the front is all fucked up to fit the wide engine.

Only way such a thing would work is to have the engine tucked back past the wheel wells and start of the glass. Then where the fuck do your feet and pedals go?

Also
>53:47
So it's basically an Audi. And shills try to convince others on this board that the car is good.

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>>16289606
Accounting for inflation the FD was almost 60k new.

And you're comparing it to a car that's trying to mimic an 80s corolla.

>>16289622
Accounting for inflation, the new Miata is like 25% cheaper than the original one, while being a far better car than the original one was in every way.
You can't compare that way. Cars are supposed to be better over 20 or 30 years.

Doesn't change anything that I said, that it's stupid engineering.
Now you see the big problems with a boxer engine in a FR configuration.
You have to mount it up high to clear the front crossmember.
You can't mount it far back behind the wheels because it's flat and takes up wheel well space.

>>16289660
I don't understand why Subaru haven't gone to a low degree v engine. Even 15/20 would make these packaging nightmares non existent

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>>16289660
I'm pretty sure than the GT86 is cheaper than the AE86, while performing better.

I'm not saying the GT86 is a God machine. It has its flaws, but it wasn't meant to break track records. It was made to be economical, practical, rwd coupe that focuses on driver involvement.

The other cars in this price range have their flaws too.

>>16289675
Yep. Low mounted V engines can be great.

FR Boxer engines are idiotic.

People say all sorts of shit about how idiotic rotary engines, but no, boxer engines in a FR car are far worse.
At least a rotary has lots of benefits to offset the drawbacks. A boxer engine in FR configuration has nothing but draw backs unless you make a foot and a half longer hood to make it front midship yet still have room for the driver's and passenger's feet.

I'm simply reminded of how superior the RX-8 was to the FR-S. Entire engine is behind the front crossmember, let alone the axle. It's so much lower down since it's not over top of it. Better weight distribution. Better comfort for both front and rear. Better in every way except fuel economy as long as you don't have the pre-2009 models that were riddled with issues.

>>16289690
> It was made to be economical
It's fuel economy sucks, though. The MX-5's is so much better despite being a convertible. And I'm sure it's far lower cost to own with its Skyactiv engine instead of the FA20.

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>>16289716

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>>16289604
>>16289717
What a joke.

>>16289716
Yeah I own one and the gas mileage is ass for what it is. I attribute part of it to the short gears, but the miata doesn't even have an overdrive gear where the 86 has one.

>>16289737
The MX-5 gears are even shorter than the FR-S.

I don't think there is any car sold in America with shorter gears than the new MX-5.

>>16289768
That's was my point. It could definitely be better. Toyota should have teamed up with Mazda and made a coupe miata with their own engine.

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Mazda won't even build another rotary car.

>>16289955
A gullwing Toyobaru would be fucking legit.
I'd buy it.

>>16289716
>>16289660
This guy gets it

>>16289575
>front-midship

No. There is no fucking way in hell the center of mass of that engine is behind the front axle. Fuck you toyota.

>>16286700
please tell me all of that isn't just for conefagging.

>>16284372
The C6 Z06 has a 16.6" COG, it's the lowest that Car and Driver have ever measured on a production road car.

Telsa Model S is 17.0"

>>16290978
>C6 Z06 has a 16.6" COG
>V8 lower than early 90s rotary

nah

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>>16290842
OK