AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>VAG
>ever

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Meanwhile, in burgerland

>>16273325
>more compact
>much simpler
>everything in easily accessible locations
>makes far more power
How did Audi fuck up so bad?

>>16273337
>I got an engineering degree XDDD
>I'm so much smarter than you XXDDDDDDDDD

We shouldn't have stopped bombing when Germany surrendered.
They think they're smart because their shit doesn't break the moment it rolls out the door.
It breaks in the exact next moment.
Useless.

>>16273371
Germans are probably the worst engineers.
Engineers are suppose to solve problems, not make more than there was before.

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>putting the engine ALL THE WAY IN FRONT OF THE FRONT AXLE
Why the FUCK would anyone do this?

All that unnesassary friction... No wonder an archaic North American V8 puts out more power in a smaller, simpler package. I can see why VW struggles to get 350hp out of a NA V8.

>>16273427
It makes sense in a pickup truck that gets used to tow trailers. That much less weight on the rear axle means a little more weight capacity.

>>16273467
And they accuse Americans of using truck engineering in their sports cars.

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>>16273413
These engines are desinged to handle continuous driving with high speeds.
These chains don´t add much friction to the engine and since they aren´t that long they won´t jump over after some thousend kilometers.

>>16273337
Technically it is actually more complicated but it's all in one place.

>>16273479
Funny, the old inline 5 used a belt.

>>16273427
It still gets 55/45 ballance.
>>16273495
Indeed, but a single belt for a V engine isn´t very relieable since the belt wou need to be insanely long.

>>16273437
The Audi V8 was designed to hang out ahead of the front axle, so it had to be as compact as possible to no completely fuck the weight balance. The chain-driven one is only like 18" long.
This means they had to use a tiny bore and relatively long stroke, which pretty much gives it the same problem as an old Chevy 305. It does of course use 4 valves per cylinder so the heads aren't as restrictive, but it's still a design weakness.

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yeah its a shitfest

but honestly, the sound it makes

that spaceship-esque whine the timing chain makes is delicious.

i miss my b6 s4

all the people complaining about audi's 4.2 clearly have never driven a car with one : )

>>16273306
There's probably a reason for that that 99% of Audi customers will never use, but they do it anyways because muh vorsprung durr technic.

German technology wins at le mans because for 24 hours it's the best. After that it will break.

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>>16273479
>aren't that long
Die
Look at that retarded one on the bottom all bent over itself.
That alone is completely unforgivable. Don't even mention the rest.
Some fucking autistic cunt was so sure that chains were superior to gears or ANYTHING ELSE he was willing to stake the well-being of Audi's reputation on it. Then Audi cheapened out, making most of it out of plastic. FUCK THEM ALL. At least the Chinese have an excuse for being this shit.
Look at the Northstar's timing chains and tensioners.
caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/31376-northstar-timing-chains-breaking/
it doesn't have to be Audi complicated.

>>16273537

How much does that Audi V8 weight? I bet it's as much as a iron block truck LS.

>>16273550
Apparently it's like 360lb with most accessories, and that's for the older, bigger, belt-driven ones.

>>16273546
>plastic tensioner
No thanks. Even Honda got it right.

>>16273546
The INDIVIDUAL chains aren´t that long, wich is why they won´t jump over even if the tensioners are worn out.
Also they are made out of polytetraflouethylene wich is one of the materials with the lowest friction and wear known to mankind.
Also if the pressure (force persurface) on the tensioner is higher it wears out faster.

>>16273570

Closer to 470 if you want one capable of running. The block without fluids and only a bit of the bullshit is 360.

Pointless when a aluminum block LS is lighter.

>>16273591
How do you spell which?

>>16273592
It's also almost 10 inches longer front to back.

>>16273597
Sorry, english isn´t my first language.

>>16273605
I forgive you bb

>>16273591
>excuses
Lots of manufacturers have chains that last. Theirs doesn't.
Excuses are shit. Deliver, or go home.

>>16273602
>length
That shit doesn't matter, unless you're running a fucking retarded drivetrain layout like audi. That entire engine is completely and utterly pointless, an abomination that never should've seen production.

>>16273613
These engines rev pretty high, this one has it maximum power @8250rpm, so the chain tensioners must be able to keep the tension as high as possible withou having to much wear on them.

>>16273602

I haven't seen any direct comparison pics but I'm pretty sure the Audi V8 is longer, wider and way taller than a LS.

>>16273592
>110lbs of fluids
wut

>>16273592
It has 9,7l of oil (0,8-0,9kg/l)
and 10,7 l of coolant (1kg/l)

>>16273646
It is more like 40 lbs

>>16273646
It came to 180kg for: -
Block with crank and pistons
Heads complete
Inlet manifold
Exhaust manifolds
Alternator
Belt covers
Starter motor

It didn't include
Flywheel
Clutch
Wiring loom
Coil packs
fluids
PS pump
Air con pump

So a figure of 215kg all up sounds about right.

..........Pigfat.........

>>16273591
The chain may not jump when the tensioners are worn out, but the chain will still rattle around and make contact with the block. Personally I would rather have to deal with a jumping chain then a chain eating the block away. The even bigger issue is even before the tensioners fail all the way the chain will get slack in it at idle and start to munch on the block. The only reason to buy a car with the 4.2 V8 is if your a massicus

>>16273638
You could just do ANYTHING ELSE
http://www.nsu4.nl/english/e1ultramaxcamshaftsystem.html

>>16273325
HURRRR
DURRRRRRRR
PUSHRODZ

>>16273671
The 215kg figure incluges the AC comperssor and a pre production version of the engine, it got 9kg lighter in the production version with AC compressor.

>>16273639
Alright, from forum posts:

(older belt-driven V8, chain-driven version is 2-3" shorter)
2001 AKB dimensions:
Bottom of sump to top of black plastic valve thing on top of intake manifold: 26"
Bottom of sump to top of intake manifold: 24.5"
Left timing belt cover to right timing belt cover: 30.25"
Front of crank pulley to bell-housing face: 20"
Front of snout on fan pulley to bell-housing face: 21"

GM LS1/LS6

Width: 26 inches wide
Length: 28 inches
Height: 25 inches
Weight: 425 pounds

The LS isn't really any shorter bottom-to-top, 4" smaller side-to-side, and 7-8" longer front-to-back.

>>16273687
If the chain jumps over the pistons are eating the valves...
>>16273690
That is a intersting idea, but 4 bearings on the front of the engine would make it even longer.

>>16273413

They are solving problems

>Hanz, vee are not generating enough money!
>No need to fear mein führer. We have zis uhnda control.

>>16273741
>germans were the jews all along
AT LAST I TRULY SEE

>>16273741
>they are solving problems
Hans, der Motor braucht zu vie Sprit bei Tempo 200.
Kein Problem, wir erhöhen einfach die Verdichtung Kollege.

>>16273723
A chain or belt can normally jump a couple of teeth and not make contact with the piston but you will have some very major symptoms when they do. Even if the pistons did make contact with the values it would still be a easier fix then replacing the whole engine due to the stupid timing chain eating it. When that timing chain starts to go into the block it sends all kinds of aluminum into the oil system which can cause bearing failure and score up cylinder walls.

The 4.2 v8 just has one too many critical design flaws in it to make up for any advantages that come with it.

Don't even get me started on how it likes to carbon up the valves and that alone can lead to bent values.

>>16273827
Since there are hige tensioners everywhere it won´t eat up the block.
Also the carbon buildup might depend on your oil, fuel and driving distance and speed.

Also it´s specific output is pretty good.

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>>16273772
>not wrong

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>>16273913

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>>16274102

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>>16274138
Merkel is not my chancelor!

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>>16274148
It's like another shoah

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>>16274174
>implying there was one to begin with

>>16273427
Looks like for transaxle reasons.

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>>16274186

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>>16274277
There will be one soon...

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>>16273325

>meanwhile in jap land

>>16273638

And yet the American engines are producing more HP/TQ at lower RPM with less issues.

>>16274455
Name one burger 4.2l engine capable of 450Ps/331kw without forced induction.

>>16274497
>m-muh hp/l
An aluminum LS weighs less and makes more power and far more torque at any RPM.

>>16274509
And needs more displacement and drops valves

>>16274509
The LS doesn´t make anywhere close the torque over 8000rpm, also torque alone doesn´t matter.
Torque x RPM matters.

>>16274531
Displacement doesn't matter if the engine itself weighs less and you don't live in a country cucked by displacement taxes.

>>16274538
LS > anything Audi has ever made

>>16274539
Well if it needs more displacement, then that's not comparable volumetric efficiency, now is it?
>inb4 muh efficiency

>>16274539
The LS is heavier than the Audi V-8.
The LS is also less efficient and isn´t desinged to run at full power all the time.

>>16274551
Why does "specific output" matter if the overall engine weight is less and the power output is more?

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>>16274365
meanwhile, in burgerland

>>16274561
Engine weight is not even less though

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>>16274555
>The LS is also less efficient and isn´t desinged to run at full power all the time.

Tell that to the millions of boats that use them at full power all day.

>>16274572
I can't take an engine that uses lost foam casting and doesnt even have induction hardened crankshafts seriously.

>>16274561
The Audi engine weights less than the LS if you don´t add a AC system to the Audi.

>>16274572
Most small airplanes use Rotax engines, mostly Rotax 900 series flat fours.
Bigger ones usualy use gas turbines.

>>16274581

It doesn't need that shit because it's not high strung like a Audi V8.

>>16274581
Why? It's cheap and it works, very well even.

>>16274497

I'm sorry I don't speak faggot try turning that into American and maybe I'll give a fuck you third reich worshiping mother fucker.

>>16274593
>because it's less reliable
ftfy

>>16274599
It's cheap alright.

>>16274606
It's cheap and very effective, which is why everyone uses it. It's the go-to swap engine for a reason.

>>16274604
So why is the heavier engine with more displacement and less power better?

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Let's compare the number of LS swaps, vs the number of Audi V8 swaps and see which is better.

>>16274619

But the LS is lighter and puts out more power???

>>16274630
Also let's compare how much power you can get out of both, then let's compare how much it costs to get to said power levels.

>>16274615
>effective
Yes but not as durable as an Audi V8. Burgershit overheats if you look at it wrong.

>>16274630
>compare the number
>what's better
Better cancel my filet mignon dinner because mcdonalds hamburger sells more...............

>>16274633
The Audi puts out 332kw, wich NA LS does that?
The Audi weights less if you have the same amount of components added to it.

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>>16274640
>Yes but not as durable as an Audi V8
>Audi "nine-thousand-dollar-sixty-thousand-mile-timing-chain-service" V8
>durable

>>16274640
>Yes but not as durable as an Audi V8. Burgershit overheats if you look at it wrong.

You realize LS engines are used in 1000 mile desert races right?

>>16274649
>The Audi puts out 332kw, wich NA LS does that?

Uh any non smog LS since 1970?

>>16274653
So why can't a 'vette do 600 miles before it gets roasted?
>BTFO

>>16274667
>LS
>1970
troll harder fagbot

>>16274668
So that's where you're going? Wanna compare that VAG boat anchor to a Ford Modular instead?

>>16274667
How heavy ist that engine?
And how much power does it have?

>>16274682
Yeah if I wanted to shoot civilians with spark plugs

>>16274668

I'm pretty no stock production sports car is going to do that... Millions of boomers track their vettes for hours on end and have no issues with overheating. ...But keep hanging onto that one example if it helps you sleep at night.

>>16274688
Alright, just to round out the big 3, what''s your memery on the HEMI?

>>16274649
This thread is a shitfest, but the LS3 does.

>>16274697
Yeah not bad

>>16274689
And there are Millions of buisnessmen driving their Audis at speeds far over 200km/h.
>>16274698
How much kw and how much weight?

>>16274698
>LS3
This one?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolladen_Schneider_LS3

>>16274365
Is that a TL1000?

>>16274698
The LS3 almost got 331kw, it only has about 307kw.

>>16274709
>And there are Millions of buisnessmen driving their Audis at speeds far over 200km/h.

Wow! 40 feet of timing chain to hit 200kph! That's some next level shit there. You totally can't accomplish that with a pickup truck or a 1.8l shitbox!

>>16274732
These guy are driving like 250 for a long time, did you ever drive that fast uninterrupted for more than 5 minutes?

>>16274732
Damn. Highest I could get in my 1,5L shitbox was 180km/h

>>16274744

A vette is doing 2500rpm at 250 and practically falling asleep. My shitbox will do 200 till the tires explode. I would do it more here if it wasn't illegal as fuck.

>>16274744
What benefit does a 40ft timing chain give in that scenario?

>>16274732
Wich pickuptruck can exceed 200km/h by much?
>>16274760
source?
Also pretty much no shitbox is capable of sustainig 200km/h without putting extreme stress on the engine.

>>16274763
It can´t snap over that easy and is more compact than a doubble belt assembly.

>>16274763
The more links in the chain, the less wear on each one reducing the overall generated slack in the chain as it wears and ages.

>>16274750
It's that last 300cc mate. You could pull it off with some boost.

>>16273479

lol, the fact the engine uses a chain rather than a belt has nothing to do with being able or not to endure high speeds

you know the engine rotates a certain set rpm without any regard for the final speed at what your traveling... there are things called gearboxes. you ever heard of them?

>>16274790
Ah, I see.
>>16274796
Wouldn't it have a greater amount of stretch instead?

>>16274778
>Wich pickuptruck can exceed 200km/h by much?

Pretty much anything with a V8 and a 6 speed auto.

>Also pretty much no shitbox is capable of sustainig 200km/h without putting extreme stress on the engine.

My 1.8 is geared really high. The engine is perfectly fine, I'd be more worried about burning the OD on the auto trans. Never fall for the short gearing meme.

>>16274797
This depends on the car and on the engine, a RX-8 will do it with dorito magic.
>>16274800
You misunderstood me, that was a answer to >>16273413

>>16274819

piss off dumb nigger

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>>16274800
Shhhhh, I'm enjoying this.

>>16274810
not if the stabbing forces applied to the chain are distributed across a greater surface area, then the wear generated at each links will be much lower than if it were distributed across fewer links

>>16273492
More complicated? Are you fucking kidding me?


>one camshaft
>one timing chain
>no timing chain guides or tensioner (still known to hold out to 150-300k miles before problems with a sbc of any sorts)
>16 valves
>16 pushrods
>mechanical fuel pump driven by camshaft
>distributor driven by chamshaft
>starter is 2 bolts and easily accessed
>starts running like shit? get screwdriver and fix it


Smallblock Chevy's are some of the simplest and reliable motors in cars ever next to the classic straight 6's.

>>16274811
Name one that can exceed 200 by much, someting like 230+

You could reach this speed, but you would need to rev it pretty high all the time to get enough power for this speed.
>>16274827
Ich bin kein Neger!

>>16274829
>I joined a week late to see this
Mods were fucking gods in '06.

>>16274830
Ah, you mean like how my 400cc single eats as many chains as my 1000 twin does, whereas my 600 I4 practically gets by with spit?

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>>16274829
>fuck ya seaking
God I miss those earlyish /b/ years, good times

>>16274840

Du bist nicht Deutch auch. Und selbst wenn Sie waren, dann würden Sie eine Verzögerung für die Verteidigung verkleidete Volkswagens sein.

>>16274829

Go fuck yourself and fuck the shitty overpriced VWs too.

>>16274840

Not even 5000rpm at 240.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g35JBqo--s

>>16274854
You fucked up the grammar to much, I can´t understand anything.

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>>16274841
Best of times, worst of times etc.

>>16274871

Nigger.

>>16273306
>How could we make this shitty engine more unreliable
Plastic timing chain guide rods hans.

>there are people on this board unironically defending overly complicated VWs with more leather for luxury car prices

>>16274871
>to
Bitte.
By grammar, do you mean syntax?

>>16274870
>the fastest truck can do this
>needing a ridiculous amount of fuel
>reving close to maximum power

>>16274887
I know your point, but to simply say 'plastic' in this day and age is simply ignorant. There are many with greater tensile strengths and abrasion resistance.
It's akin to saying 'metal', very ambiguous.

>>16274894
You fucked up both.

>>16274901

> autist screeching

>>16274901
VAG plastics.

>>16274901
>>16274905
>>16274908
As I explained earlyier these are made out of PTFE and more wear resistant than most metals while producing way less drag.

>>16274899
I wonder how the VW engine in question fares at 240km/h in respect to petrol consumption.

>>16274917
Since it runns close to its sweetspot at around 230 g/kwh it should be better than the 8,3l V10.

>>16274915

Yup, hes an autist.

>>16274928
*engineering student

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>>16274904
>You
Not him, I couldn't make much sense of his translation either.
>>16274905
What do you mean by this?
>>16274908
Then you could probably slide a train across them.
>>16274915
Yes, but /o/tists don't know this and think PLASTIC is the same shit found on $2 shop toys as the ones found in various aspects of automotive technology.

>>16274931
Training to be one of the autists that comes up with this type of shit, huh?

>>16274931

Then you're even a bigger idiot.

>>16274934
We need IDs here.
>>16274942
Nope.

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>>16274940
>Autist
>Autist
>Autist

Honestly, if you're going to shitpost, at least put some effort into it.

>>16274940
Someone has to make cars better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>16274949

Yes you are. I'm an engineer, not a student and I wouldn't even think about using all the materials proper names in a day to day conversation.

They're different, yes. They're plastics? Yes.

It's plastic.

>>16274950
I tried to keep things consistent, since I thought autists liked consistency.

>>16274934

Because people are dumb and don't know there are different type os plastics. Especially people that somehow like cars.

You're even stupider than the people you're trying to describe.

>>16274958
Sorry, but english wasn´t my first language.
Also plastics is way to simplyfied.

>>16274966

And naming every single different plastic out there out of a laboratory or in a non develepmental environment is way to retarded. Autistic even.

>>16274915
Yeah that is why VAG and BMW are known for their great construction of timing chain guides on their V engines retard. It's not the material, its the fact its shitty injection molded plastic they did not over engineer.

>>16274497
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ghtp-1208-competitive-motor-engine-build-1029hp-440ci-na-lsx/

>1000 HP naturally aspirated

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/sucp-1107-700-hp-ls-454-stroker-build/

>700hp on pump gas, Naturally aspirated

http://www.horsepowerjunkies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55301

>900hp NA

http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/gmt-800-older-gm-general-discussion-130/600-hp-n-408-a-519094/

>600hp naturally aspirated

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1485741-507rwhp-445rwtq-stock-bottom-end-n-ls1-update-vids.html

>500hp NA

Need more? I can do this all night. A forced induction LS should make north of at least 2000hp.

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>>16274960
Fair enough.

>>16274963
Bit of conflicting logic you've got there. Thanks for your application to the vacant village idiot position, we'll call you.

>>16274975
PTFE is extremely different to most other plastic, so mentioning it makes sense.
>>16274977
>implying injection molded parts are shit
How else would you build the in these tolerances at those quantitys?

>>16274988
>over-developed

>>16274994

Conflicting logic?

Your clearly have problems understanding English.

>>16274988
>A forced induction LS should make north of at least 2000hp
if its a custom 8l billet block with two massive basketball turbos sure

>>16274995
Forging them from a solid block of plastic

>>16274995

You're retarded if by this time you still haven't got the point.

>>16274995
>How else would you build the in these tolerances at those quantitys?
With thicker walls or by machining a solid block?

Dumbass.

>>16274975
But there is a difference between knowing that the plastic everyone is going full retard over is more than just 'plastic' versus dismissing it entirely because it's 'plastic', but willfully and ignorantly.

Wood is not wood, metal is not metal, plastic is not plastic. Just because you don't know the difference, doesn't mean everyone should Americanize it down to your level.

>>16274988
>http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ghtp-1208-competitive-motor-engine-build-1029hp-440ci-na-lsx/
7,2L...

All of these are modified, not stock and most of them are over 4,2l.

>>16274839

Underrated post is underrated.
(Although my top 2 favorite engines are 1. The Ford MEL and 2. the Mopar LA block)

>>16275003
>Forging them from a solid block of plastic
That is retarded since these blocks would be molded anyways.
>>16275013
>thicker walls
That would be possible and is the least retarded shit I saw today.

>>16275000
Oh?
>Because people are dumb and don't know things
>You know things so you're more stupider by trying to educate others

I'll put you in the former group until you prove otherwise.

>>16274455
>these engines rev pretty high, thats why they need muh tensioners
>huur american engines dont rev that high!!
And?

>>16274988
>posts links of 454s
Okay

>>16275014
The parts are shit. They break, regardless of being made of thermoset, thermoplastic, metal, or wood.

>>16275002
http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/948763-2000hp-lsx-twin-turbo-stock-crank.html

>2000hp

https://www.stevemorrisengines.com/dyno-videos/2-500-hp-f3-bbc

>2500hp

http://www.pictaram.com/media/1216812230749394927_421012756

>5000hp nitrous

http://speedsociety.com/monster-2000-hp-ls-454-exposed-insane-engine-dyno-pull/

>2000 HP

Too easy, keep trying.

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>>16275002

More like $40k and a afternoon. Nothing special.

>>16275022

No you're the stupid here by thinking no one here knows the difference and by acting like and autist with the

> hurr durr look at me I know more than the plebs

>>16274689
>Millions of boomers track their vettes for hours on end and have no issues with overheating
roflmao no they fucking dont
check corvette forums, countless owners are having their cars shut down into limp mode after a couple minutes
and boomers dont track their cars, idiot

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>>16275030
>posts all kinds of displacements well over 4.2L
>thinks he's making a point

>>16273371
>>16273413

To be fair, US auto manufacturers like GM and Ford were known to have sold machines to the Nazi regime right up until WW2. So in essence, they just took US designs.

>>16275023
Name an audi engine that can handle 7.2l stock or modified. I'll wait.

>>16275015
>not stock and most of them are over 4,2l.

Oh get over the hp/l bullshit. These engines are barely bigger than the Audi V8 on the exterior.

>>16275043
That's a retarded challenge.
Think before you post.

>>16275038
Most of those engines have a higher specific output than your precious overstressed overcomplicated VAG trash.

>>16275030
you literally proved my point

>big block chebbys and six figure nre builds
roflmao thanks

daily reminder a 2jzgte makes 1000hp on an unopened motor with a *single* turbo and only 3l of displacement

>>16275042
Ford Motor Company and CONOCO were well aware of the jew problem. You should thank them for their service.

>>16275044
The Audi V8 is pretty much the same sieze as the 4.2 LS.
>>16275048
Wich one has more than 80kw/l?

>>16275035
>countless owners are having their cars shut down into limp mode after a couple minutes

Because they expect a stock "sports car" (which they know isn't engineered for hardcore track usage) to get flogged on for 10 hours in 45 degree desert conditions. A $1000 cooling mod fixes that.

>>16275050
Easy pray and NA on an LS1 with stock internals

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>>16275048
>dedicated custom race engines can have high specific output than fully emissions compliant passenger car engines
kek

>>16275032
It would be helpful if the supposedly educated posters referred to the material used by its commonly known name as opposite to just simply 'plastic'. Why would I give people on 4chan, of all places, the benefit of the doubt?
>>16275029
Of course, that's why we see this thread 3 times a week.

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>>16275055
>kw/L
dropped. how is your 1.2L diesel doing?

>>16275043
7.2l? name a chebby v8 that has won le mans more times than any other engine in history of the race

oh wait you cant, but audi can :^)))

>>16275062
90MPG thanks

>>16275056
You missed the part about 'a couple minutes'.
Hell, some of them can't even stand up to a couple fast sweepers near redline without welding themselves together due to shitty pickup.

>>16275062
I used kw/l as comparison since there are different norms for horspower, but kw is universal.

>>16275055
Those 900-1000hp 454s, for instance, are well over "80kw/l".

>>16275065
That's more drivetrain and less engine, Terry harder fag

>>16275061

Because it's what normal people do you dumbfuck.

>>16275031
Spend half that and half like 800hp NA and daily driveable too.

>>16275065

You realize "LeMans" is irrelevant in north america, right? Nobody knows what it is. People here only care about Nascar and drag racing.

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>>16275066
>UK gallon is the size of a US cup
>>16275069
stay foreign faggot. fuck off, we're full.

>>16275066
2.6L/100 Km.

lel nope

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>>16275058
ls1 cant make shit for power on stock internals
try again

>>16275056
a $8000 cooling mod doesnt do shit, still pegs 300 degree oil temps, just after 10 laps in the hands of a careful driver instead of 7 laps

>>16275071
Stock or modified?
The Audi does that stock.
80kw/l would reqire the to produce 990hp or more

>>16275065
Name an Audi engine that can run a 3 second quarter mile :)

>>16275068

Why the fuck are they redlining when they got 7 fucking gears and immense torque? Seems like user error to me. Doing that in a desert doesn't help either.

>>16275050
>unopened motor 1000hp

Oh it's you again in another one of these threads? You got shit all over last time you claimed that and laughed out of the thread, fuck off.


Let's not ignore all the salty fucks mad about a literal redneck engine platform modernized with dem computahs being dirt cheap, reliable as fuck and can be built for everything from mild daily driver to putting down 500+hp for pennies or pushing into the thousands with any variety of builds, and crammed into literally anything with ease.

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>>16275075
Weird, they seem to know the difference between iron, aluminium, steel...

>>16275081
The VW Lupo was capable of a fuel consumption like that if you cared about fuel economy.

>>16275072
>engines dont win races
lol okay mr pedal cart

>>16275073
>dual cams were more of a japanese auto industry gimmick, it was easy to fool people back then
roflmao stop posting anytime kid thanks

daily reminder ohc dominated american racing so hard in the 60s it was banned forever

>>16275079
yea thats why thers an american le mans series... kys

>>16275095
>You got shit all over last time you claimed that and laughed out of the thread, fuck off
Please refresh my memory kid, seriously.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/136499-stock-long-block-2jz-gte-1043-whp-808-tq-gt47-80-e85.html

>>16275087
Wich standard production car does that?

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>>16275092
>can't even survive within it's design parameters

>>16275085
Can you even get more power out of that VAG boat anchor?
It's obviously not cost-effective because if it was, you'd see more people using them, but is it even possible? Or is it stressed so far to its limits already that it'd blow up immediately if you tried?

>>16275097

lol

Keyword, cared.

And even then, conditions would have to be pretty much ideal.

>>16275106
>moving goal posts
You realize that I can modify just about any LS stock car to run 5-7 for the same price, if not less than the price of any audi easily

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>>16275092
Just happens to be where they're making power, I guess.

>>16273638
Big block chevrolets (yes, built ones, get the fuck over it) pushing huge amounts of cubes (even 9+ liters, or the equivalent of 7.5 eurocuck motors) and are able to hit 6000, 7000, even 8000 RPM with pistons nearly as wide as your wife after tyrone leaves.
>smallblock chevrolets hitting 9000rpm with single timing chain and no tensioners


Zero excuse VAGdefenders.

>>16275083
>still pegs 300 degree oil temps, just after 10 laps in the hands of a careful driver instead of 7 laps

Is 10 laps not enough? Your tires are going to go to shit way before that.

>>16275107

It's design parameters are designed to take it to the country club and work a couple times a week.

Too much benchracing.

>>16275123
And building them is still cheaper than buying a single Audi motor

>>16275110
You could get more power out of this engine with different intake and exaust ports, also the internals are good for forced induction.
>>16275119
The Thread was originaly about production cars and engines, not about modifieng a engine to last a few seconds.

>>16275116
>>16275136
What the fuck did you fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know... gorilla warfare....confirmed kills... you're dead kiddo

>>16275123
The don´t do that with stock internals for long...

>>16275123
>and are able to hit 6000, 7000, even 8000 RPM with pistons nearly as wide as your wife after tyrone leaves
and they last 400m before they are thrown in the bin

if you want to talk racing lets not talk dragfag shit where only 3 manufacturers make engines. lets talk actual international competition... like le mans where audi v8 has most wins of any engine, and gm cant even compete in the higher classes their engines are so fucking trash

>>16275134
>You could get more power out of this engine with different intake and exaust ports, also the internals are good for forced induction
How many people have tried this? How much power? How many LS motors could you buy and build for the same amount of money?

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>>16273703
do you even know why you hate pushrods?
i hear people complaining about them but never see a reason why

pushrods are proper design. they allow for a single cam. dual cams were more of a japanese auto industry gimmick, it was easy to fool people back then. one automaker would have the dual overhead cam which was a supposed advantage so people thought engines without dhoc were inferior. there was some kind of false japanese superiority involving dhoc


dual cams add needless complexity for minor performance gains. the added materials and machining are not worth it. the late 80s and early 90s were a very stupid mess for the auto industry.
and people who hate on pushrods are always either mexican, filipino or some variation of mexican/asian minority "culture"

>>16275141
THey dont do that on stock internals EVER.

The LS/SBC scene is so unbelievably overdeveloped it's ridiculous. Any thing possibly that can be done to a merican V8 has been done. Burgers like to use this as an argument about superiority, when the VAG V8 is always an objectively better piece of engineering, and built much better too.

pushrodcucks btfo ITT

3l dohc v8
500hp
198lb
bulletproof racing engine

7l ohv v8
505hp
498lb
drops valves and destroyers engine after handful of laps

roflmao, pushrod shit

>>16275085
"this more expensive stock thing outputs more than your less expensive modified previously stock cleetus engine"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvL5LroSpg

358 smallblock. Almost 9500 RPM.

>still no plastic tensioners

>>16275145
Turbo conversions aren´t that rare.
Also a 4.2L Audi is way cheaper to maintain...
>>16275148
Only 2 Valves per cylinder
Need verry stiff springs to get mid to high rpm
VVL is almost impossible
>>16275150
So you compare a stock Audi engine with a engine with mostly aftermarket components?

>>16275156
>Bonneville record attempt car
>comparing to stock production engine for commuter vehicles
ROFLMAO PUSHRODKEKS THIS DESPERATE

daily reminder GM has NEVER EVER won the 24 hours of le mans because they are unable to produce an engine capable of that level of performance for that amount of time
stay btfo

>>16275156
Audi/VAG engines aren´t that expensive, also archiving 9500rpm for a short time isn´t hard.
Building a engine that lasts lang and revs that high verry often is a completely different thing.

>>16275144

Why are there so many LS V8's at the PPIHC and not a single Audi V8?

Have fun watching a bunch of pussies go around a bitch ass track for 24 hours.

>>16275162
>overcomplicated VAG trash known for eating timing chain guides and destroying itself, with 60k mile timing components services that cost 3k in parts alone
>cheaper to maintain than an LS
You seriously can not be this delusional.

>>16275144
Talking out your ass, the post.

>>16275177
Audi won it with 4 cylinders...
>>16275184
>what are fuel costs

>>16275177
>Why are there so many LS V8's at the PPIHC
private entries from local americans. next.

>>16275186
btfo damage control the post

>m-m-muh top fuel engines guize stop talking shit about consumer engines!

>>16275163
daily reminder millions upon millions of pushkek motors, just from GM, are still out there running and driving, even ones 60 years old. Just how many audi motors are out there on the roads, hmmmm?

>>16275187
Not the same as maintenance costs. Also,
>what is overdrive

Besides,
>caring about fuel costs
Oh, right. Yurocuck.

>>16275177
>Have fun watching a bunch of pussies go around a bitch ass track for 24 hours
Audi was in group b, GM wasnt. Kill yourself.

>>16275163
Oh, let's not forget, GM made their 100 millionth smallblock in 2011, they're still being produced, fun fact, you can order a 350 long block and have it delivered to your doorstep for $1499.

>>16275196
If you drive on the Autobahn most of the time and have to drive a decent distance per day you do care about it.

>>16275194
>daily reminder millions upon millions of pushkek motors, just from GM, are still out there running and driving
because they were used as 180hp truck and landbarge engines :^)

please do not try to use the argument of numbers when comparing gm to a high class brand such as audi
mcdonalds sells more food than an award winning seafood restaurant, doesnt mean its better.
>although you probably think so, fatfuck burger

>>16275175
moving goal posts, cletus makes a motor that achieves what eurocucks do and suddenly it's "well it wont last long obviously" but of course, you lack the proof.
>ignoring that the failure of most engines period is anything from an individual part failing or fuck ups during building by people
>lets ignore professional shops who have proven reliable and outstanding engines

>>16275201
>highway driving
That's what you use an overdrive gear for, you colossal retard.

Oh, right, none of your cars has enough torque to usetall gears because you're cucked by displacement taxes. Seriously, why haven't yurocucks been range banned from this board yet?

>>16275209
>cletus makes a motor that achieves what eurocucks do
lol try again. as i recall gm has NEVER EVER won le mans or forumla 1 or wrc

>>16275200
NZfag here, I wish it were that easy. Probably can't even buy an exhaust manifold for less than that.

>>16275192
>engines produced for sale by companies achieving said numbers
>says m-muh top fuel


Show me where top fuel 6000-11000hp were mentioned in my post.

>>16275209
>clethus motor
If you exchange pretty much every part it ain´t cletus motor animore.
The 9500rpm engine from >>16275156
is for a land speed racing team, it isn´t gonna last 300.000km.
The Audi will, Honda F20C will do that to.

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>>16275221
yeah because overdrive is so fuel efficient when you are sitting on 160mph
why the fuck are americans allowed to post here? they continuously prove their stupidity, they are worthless posters.

>none of your cars has enough torque
and yet mercedes family sedans make more torque than any american production cars, roflmao, just KYS

pic related 738lb-ft of pure MUSCLE

>>16275201
Americans travel more than anyone else in the world, because we have states as big as your fucking countries.


>he doesn't commute 60-100 miles one way a day

>>16275228
Wich stock burger engine does 8500rpm+?

>>16275228
>engines produced for sale by companies achieving said numbers
show me where gm sells a 9500rpm smallblock, thanks

>>16275162

>Only 2 Valves per cylinder
>Need verry stiff springs to get mid to high rpm
>VVL is almost impossible

yup.
meme confirmed
pushrod hate is a very easy way to determine the person you are talking to is a total fucking idiot.

2 valves per cylinder are arguably superior in many ways, for simplicity, reliability and performance. and variable timing, especially on multiple cams are dumb as shit. its amazing how all these bad auto industry gimmicks are defended by chinese mexicans.
really amazing how dumb many people can be

>>16275206
Foods a far different subject here. How many audi engines are gonna survive 30 years of neglect and abuse, sitting for 5 years before getting a fresh tank of gas and some ether sprayed down the carb to get cranked over?


Deny it all you want, SBC's are tried and true cuckboy, even huge heavy duty trucks like C50s and C60's had basic smallblocks in them, I don't see audi engines capable of that sort of abuse, neglect and use.

pushrod cucks so btfo itt

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>>16275244
I gotta admit, I am grateful that none of my commuting involves more than 3 lanes per direction.

>>16275243
>yurop builds some seriously impressive machines
>governments tax the shit out of them so they're only attainable for their Arab overlords
lmao
meanwhile in America anyone can own a 500hp+ car

>>16275243

>needing a V12 and 2 turbo's to get 738 ft/lb

That's a pulley upgrade on a LS engine.

>>16275246
>>16275248

You don't need to rev that high when you got 7 liters to play with.

>>16273306
tfw when you own a b6 s4 but you can actually work on your own shit
feelsfuckinggoodman

>>16275258
so 120hp chebby v8s from the 70s are reliable... everyone knows this, no one is arguing this
and this is a million miles away from a bonneville record attempt vehicle... keep moving goalposts to the most irrelevant shit ever tho

>>16275248
>NRE and similar performance businesses aren't companies

No one said GM.

>>16275246
No one said stock.

>>16275229
Funny how it's always a "cletus motor" whenever it's american-made whether from 1960 or 2016.

>greasy dudes in garages and driveways capable of building high horsepower smallblocks ain't cletus

>>16275243
It's an american french fry reviewing board, you literal cuck. Must be hard to remember that when all you can taste is the refugee baby gravy your wife fed you.

>>16273427
Jesus fucking CHRIST

>3 fucking mufflers
>4 fucking catalytic converters
>2 piece drive shaft

Fucking EPA

>>16275244
Actualy I do travel that far.
Also traveling at 70mph is completely different from traveling at 200km/h.
>>16275252
>performance
Nope, 5 valve has supriror performance since you have more valveskirt area
>variable timing
(D)OHC can change the valve ltime AND lift

There is a good reason most high performance engines, like for Le Mans or formula 1, are DOHC
>>16275267
Wich are heavy and inefficient.
>>16275276
We are comparing a stock Audi engine with burger engines.
I coul also start with the mazda R26B wich would last longer than these modified LS1 .

>>16275275

We had 400hp V8's back in the 70's you know right? People were running 13:1 compression back then, Which you euro's are just discovering now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3LxQJ6xvyA

>>16275267
>needing
no, its just easier power this way. plus it means vastly superior power delivery, something americans usually care about

>muh pulley
muh tune that takes me to 1000lb-ft at 1500rpm!!! ROFLMAO!!!! AMERISHIT BTFO!!!!!!!

>>16275293
Do you have any source for 13:1 compression ratios on production engines?

>>16275276
>NRE and similar performance businesses aren't companies
modified one off engines, show me where i can buy that land speed record attempt engine please
nice goal post moving btw

>>16275282
its owned by a gook

>>16275293
>back in the 70s
around the time that *american made* ohc engines were dominating nascar and drag racing and they were banned because ohv couldnt compete?

>>16275306
Wasn´t Audi dominating Nascar or TransAm once and got banned because of that?

>>16275292

not even worth replying to ur shit

>>16275315
>>16275319

The Audi Quattro 200 Trans Am:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_200_quattro_Trans-Am

>>16275322
>americucks btfo by a five cylinder
roflmao

>>16275322
There was the 90 IMSA GTO as well.

>>16275333
The Pikes peak S1 had only 4 cylinders and dominated Pikes Peak.

>>16275305

Not production engines... People modified engines back then ya' know?

>>16275352
Formula 1 and LeMans Engines had similar compression ratios back then...

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>>16275292

you can change lift with a cam
variable lift is not really desirable as the timing

either way, you are totally missing the point of why multiple cams with multiple timing systems (including lift) is a very bad gimmick.
the real world performance gains are not worth the added cost to the consumer.

its totally a bad 90s gimmick which has never been stopped because engineers wank eachother even if their ideas are bad, and mexican people are too stupid to know better, so they project their stupidity like fan boys would do.

pro tip: 5 valves are definitely not superior against 2

>>16275382
VVT literally only exists to avoid getting cucked by emissions regulations, it has nothing to do with performance. It just makes the valvetrain more prone to failure and harder to service.

>>16275360

So your multi million dollar engines were competing with some high school kid working in his garage after school? Much advanced. But what do you expect coming from people who thought using old ass engine blocks and pissing on new ones was a good ideas when building a race engine.

>>16275382
With VVL you can have multiple cam profiles for different rpms wich gives you a better torque curve and fuel efficiency.
since you won´t just gain performance, but lower the total cost of ownership DOHC is worth its initial price.
>engineers wank eachother even if their ideas are bad
Nope, If you deliver shit you might get fired soon.
>mexicans
What role are mexicans playing there?
5 valves have a much higher skirt are and a lower mass, so they will work up to higher rpm and have a better flow.

>>16275416
But 5 valves and VVL/VVT add unnecessary complexity and cost to everything, and you don't need revs if you've got enough cubic inches/torque.

>>16275407
There is no multi million dollar engine ITT, the Audi V8 aren´t that expensive.
Also it isn´t only focused on power, it also has good emissions, lasts long and needs about half the fuel of a burger V8.

>>16275396

no, you dont need a variable timing system for this.
wrap this around your fucking head.

you can achieve middle ground with stationary timing just fine and scrap with extra $1000 in engine cost to the consumer

vvt is installed on civics and all kind of economy cars which is a total waste. it would only be feasible as a performance machines, to gain performance rather than fuel savings. which also fits role as a performance option in the first place.
yes vvt can achieve fuel savings, but its only a marginal gain. its overall use is much better for speed, rather than economy

>>16275416

>Not wanting a big cam at all times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMB4-EEPGSc

>>16275431
They don´t make it much more complex, the most complex part of the Engine isn´t the cylinder head.
The add power and efficiency.
>>16275439
At low RPM you want a different cam profile than on high rpm to have a high output at high rpm and on low rpm.

>>16275434
But you can achieve the same power figures with a more aggressive static cam, and more reliably too. I was agreeing with you that VVT is a fucking waste of money and resources and a typical eurocuck """"feature"""".

>>16275306
>modified one off engines, show me where i can buy that land speed record attempt engine please
http://nelsonracingengines.com/

>>16275449

A 7l V8 with a big ass cam will still have no problems destroying the tires at less than 2000 rpm.

>>16275467
A 7l burger V8 with big cams will need a oil platform in the backyard if you DD it at high speeds...

>>16275476

Once again, Tell that to the boats that run full power, full rpm's all day long. It's not a issue on a semi built car engine.

>>16275495
I was talking about the fuel consumption...

>>16275476
Again,
>caring about fuel costs

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>>16275467
320 ftlbs of torque starting at 800rpm climbs to 375 by 3000rpm

my big block will roast the tires in all 3 gears without going over 2500 rpm

hp isnt everything

>>16273583
with the proper weight synthetic oil and regular service that plastic tensioner will last the life of the car

>>16275505
>he has no lue what happens to the fuel consumption at high speeds

>>16275500

You've been brainwashed into thinking big engines equal worse fuel consumption. A big burbling V8 at 2000rpm is using less fuel than some high strung turbo 4 at 4500rpm.

>>16275514
Only cucks care about fuel consumption, gas is cheap in the relevant part of the world.

>>16275396
Autist. Stop.
>nothing to do with performance.
Changing the timing and the can angles to allow fuel in/exhaust out at more effiicient times has >nothing to do with performance?
kys

>>16275513
If the service life of the car is 60k miles, sure.

>>16275449

maintaining multiple instances of variable timing on multiple cams is a very stupid idea. whoever forced these practices into standard production needs to be fucking shot

emissions efficiency is mostly achieved at the cat. and with raw materials used in frame/body construction and engine assembly. compression is another major factor, probably moreso than anything else. timing plays little role.
economy cars dont need variable timing or lift. they can be tuned to idle and play around 3500 rpm with a single cam with static timing just fine.
it wont make them run like slow shit. nobody would even know the difference

only idiots are paying extra cost for junky unreliable systems and they believe their engines are not garbage, but pushrod engines somehow are, which is immensely stupid

its a total auto industry sales gimmick. it went out of control because of marketing, not real engineering

>>16275519

If both are putting out the same power the turboed DOHC 4 cylinder usually needs about 230 g/kwh, the OHV V8 usually needs about 300g/kwh.
>>16275520
If you drive over 100km at high speeds it matters, even if gas costs 2$/gallon.

>>16275532
g/kwh
what the fuck kind of cuck units are those

>>16275525
I didn´t say it changes the NOx or HC emissions, but it changes the fuel consumption drasticly.
Also economy cars don´t always rev 3500 rpm, tey usually rev 1500-5000rpm due to different speeds and accelerations.
>>16275541
This is the usual mesurement for ICE efficiency.
Wich one do you use?

>>16275552
>This is the usual mesurement for ICE efficiency.
Wich one do you use?

I use which ever lets the most bald eagles out of the tailpipe. Because I live somewhere free.

>>16275560
And that would be what?

>>16275560
>85 mph max
>free
TOPKEK

>>16275552

it does not change fuel consumption drastically


that is a total meme

>>16275564

The more unburnt hydrocarbons coming out, the better.

>>16275569

What are street races? Oh I forgot those were against sharia law over there.

>>16275306
It was started by moot, based in the states, it's literally a fucking U.S. board, always has been, just because a gook bought it doesn't change anything.

>>16275572
It changes the fuel consumption especially if the engineload isn´t constant since you can run the atkinson cyle if low pwer is needed and the otto cycle if you need the full power.
Also you can run a high rpm cam profile and a low rpm one to have a better powerband.
>>16275579
We do stuff like that on the Autobahn or a track...

>>16273537
The v8 in ops picture has 2 valves per cyclinder

>>16275599
If it would have 2 valves per cylinder, why should it be DOHC?

>>16275591

no

>>16274497
4.2 in the C5 RS6 made 330kw and it was biturbo. NA version made 225 or so.

Quality thread once again lads.

>>16275162
Cheaper to maintain than an American v8? Gotta be the funniest thing I've heard all week, good one! I've seen small blocks last 450k before the tranny dies, or the subframe rots out, and the only maintenance was oil and spark plugs. My last car had a SBC TBI, I got it at 300k, and sold it at 395k after the tranny sploded.

>>16275087

Name any ICE engine that can?

>>16274562

superior engine

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what's going on here???

>>16276700
Original hemi, top fuel cars run sub 5 on a bad day you dumb fuck.