what are some things i should know about driving in michigan

Good snows will make a night and day difference.

Just use common sense and stay alert. It's the other drivers you need to be aware of.

>>16241234
Have good tires
Leave ABS on
Let jesus take the wheel

also the webm i posted is from /r/roadcams and the were talking about how good his countersteering was..but i was like..he was still in the wrong lane if someone was there he would have got hit

i dont want to deal with snow fuck michigan

>>16241277
>how good his countersteering was

literally he turned the wheel and also slammed the brakes

the guy is an idiot

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>>16241277
>/r/roadcams

Assuming you're not a complete ass, you should be fine. Just be leery of other drivers. Everybody goes like 15 under all the damn time.

>>16241277
he didn't really do anything that I saw

>>16241234
Biggest thing is to leave more room between the cars ahead of you and more time to stop at intersections. So many accidents would be prevented if everyone just did those 2 simple things

>>16241234
Here is what I can tell you. I used to be one of those over confident pricks that thought because I had snow tires and all wheel drive that I would be fine in inclement weather. Boy was I fucking wrong. I spun out my 2010 Highlander so bad once. It scared the shit out of me and I am far more cautious now. I was taking a turn at an intersection at about 20mph or so and the momentum of the body roll fucked me. Probably went over ice or some shit. Moral of the story: even fancy ABS/Traction control/AWD/Snow tires wont do shit in a worst case scenario

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>>16241234
Fucking pathetic counter steer effort.

>>16241234
He didnt really countersteer, but at least he was calm.

OP, what you need is a decent set of winter tires, and a bag of stuff in your trunk for emergencys. Gloves, tow rope, heat, maybe a small shovel? I drive a BMW now in Oregon, and for 2 years drove a 1968 BMW with snow tires, and i always did fine. And make sure you practice siding around in a parking lot!

I was raised in Virginia. Anything more than an inch and we close down business over here. Imagine my surprise when I went to school in Michigan. Driving in snow is a valuable skill-set. This is what I learned:

>always always always have provisions in your car during winter months. I had a few MRE's and an extra blanket or two, aswell as a few miscellaneous tools, woodsman items, and spare radio.
>when braking and turning don't hold the pedal down. Pedal on, let off, steer. Pedal on, let off, steer.
>Make sure your windshield wiper fluid has de-icer. Keep your windshield wiper blades in good shape by raising them up before a snowfall.
>Invest in a remote starter and heated seats. Amazing when you run out of your house and into a crispy warm car.
>Snow tires are worth their weight in gold. Have a set, but only put them on after snow is on the ground and there to stay for awhile.
>AWD is great, but FWD will do just fine. RWD is a bit tricky.

>>16241676
Also, my e39 540i is horrible in snow, do not attempt without snow tires! Skinnier the better

Get an Ice Scraper

>>16241234
Our winters aren't so bad.

Don't drive faster than you're comfortable with -- and don't worry because nobody else will be speeding around either.

>>16241234
does webm related happen all the time?
wtf? fuck snow

Also in Michigan and have an 02 Mustang GT manual.
I've lived in Michigan my whole life so I know the winters, but never drove a rwd in snow.
With some winter tires and weight in the trunk will I be alright?
It's either that or buy a beater, but only have $4k in the bank so I don't know.

>>16242057
I drove a 1985 Nissan 300zx through the winter with all seasons. I didn't even have a limited slip diff. I made it. It's not bad, just go out to an empty parking lot and get to know the car.

Drifting in the snow is so slow that you can act like you're a pro and almost never spin out. Get huge angle too.

Just get your car undercoated or fluid filmed before winter.

Brake very early.

My first (and only) crash I braked at a Stop sign and my car simply rolled through the snow and hit the guy in front of me. ABS did shit.

And don't drive like a fag. Whenever some faggot tails me in the snow or pouring rain I slowly brake check to tell them to fuck off, then I slam my brakes so those faggots swerve and die.

>>16242076
Dope. Mine does have a limited slip too so that's a plus. How much does an undercoat usually cost?

>>16242077
ABS increases your stopping distance in snow by 27% according to this

http://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/218270/racv-abs-braking-system-effectiveness.pdf

page 12 is where it talks about it

which is why a lot of people in northern states will just rip the ABS fuse out every winter

>>16241234
>what are some things i should know about driving in michigan winters?
They're not that bad
>do i need winter tires?
I have a set of winter tires I switch out, most people don't
>should i disable my abs?
no

>>16241234
WHERE IS THIS?!?!?!?!?!? DO I KNOW THAT ROAD? I THINK I DO!

Where in MI you at?
Snow tires are god tier. If you can afford them get a set NOW!

Another thing to keep in mind on the snow is snow, even steering and pedal inputs. Anticipate triple the normal stopping distance.

By far the biggest suggestion is to find an empty parking lot to play around in come the first real accumulating snowfall. I do this without fail every year to get familiar with how the car performs in a semi-controlled environment.

>Should I disable ABS?
Nigga wut? No. Just... don't...

>>16241277
Counter steering has nothing to do with this. The driver felt the rear end get loose and slammed on the brakes. I can almost guarantee that. This sent all the weight to the front and off the back tires, making the issue worse. Pedal snapping in racing operates under the same principle. Remember, slow and even pedal inputs!

>>16241701
Nigga I've driven in the winter in Camaros and Mustangs with bald fuckin tires and I was fine. Your 50/50 BMW is bad in the snow? I think the problem exists between the wheel and the seat

>>16241234
Michigan native here,
get a new set of blizzaks, keep your abs on, don't put yourself in bad situations and you'll be fine.

>>16242159
if he slammed the brakes he would have locked them and ended up going straight off the road, not ending up backwards.

he still had steering which means he atleast didn't lock them. the issue may have been caused by bad braking but the control after that was all steering related. cranking the wheel in the opposite direction of your slide will slow you down

>>16241234
Snow is nothing.
Ice is everything.

>>16242094
A couple bucks per rattle can

>>16242222
Not necessarily. That car looks new enough to have ABS. I was in a similar situation when I was younger. I went to drift around a corner, but overshot it. I was too far gone for counter steering so i instinctively slammed on the brakes. ABS kicked in and car spun backwards.

>>16242314
if it had abs it wouldnt have drifted off like that in the first place, unless it was so icey that it wouldnt have mattered either way

the point of abs is to prevent the locking that causes you to slide off like that

>>16242132
>in wet slippery conditions, ABS is very effective in reducing stopping distances
>in most scenarios, ABS stopping distances were shorter than with the ABS disabled, the exception being gravel

>in pavement tests in snow, the deceleration of the non-ABS-equipped vehicle was slightly greater than the same vehicle equipped with ABS
but
>It was noted that loss of control of the vehicle occurred in several tests with vehicles not equipped with ABS but never with any ABS equipped vehicle.

>It is possible that the difference in the crash distribution of ABS and non-ABS-fitted vehicles can be partially attributed to incorrect operation and a lack of understanding of ABS.
>>16242077 is an excellent example

Unless your goal is hectic skids, disabling safety features is counterproductive and stupid.

>>16242350
im betting there tests were literally

>drive really fast
>hit the brake
>oh no you lost control!!!!

non-abs need pumping which not everyone knows how to do properly, im betting that accounts for all the "loss of control" they're getting. probably just slamming the brake and locking the entire car up. cant do that shit like you can with ABS

>>16242379
I don't have the attention span to hunt down the papers and examine their methods, but since the goal was shortest stopping distance they were most likely doing their best to threshold brake and avoid lockup. Maybe they even tested threshold vs. full lock vs. lock-and-pump

Not to mention these are independent tests. Manufacturers spend billions designing, building, and testing these systems before they hit the streets. ABS has been around for almost 50 years, if it was really a detriment in slippery conditions, would we still be using it?

>>16242429
its a detriment to the 5% of the population that drives in such conditions, it'd be silly to not have it when its a benefit to most people in most situations. snow just isnt one of them

>>16242445
Are you saying that you believe that only 5% of the population ever experiences snow?

>>16242474
im saying it's probably babby's first snow. most states are pretty good at clearing it before anyone leaves for work/comes home.

i live in new jersey and it snows here but even during winter i dont ever see snow on the road, the plow trucks are on point and i expect it's the same in most places that arent in the middle of no where

>>16242340
>>16242340
Locking of the tires has nothing to do with this sliding. It has everything to do with the vehicle's momentum. Quick, sudden pedal or steering inputs will cause something like the spin in the video because it upsets the weight of the car. Slamming on the brakes with the rear sliding will only make the problem worse because of momentum. Do you not know the dynamics behind a Scandinavian Flick?

I agree with you on ABS and it's intentions but it wont stop this situation. Stability control is what you need to help out in situations like the video and even then it isn't guaranteed to stop every situation. It can only do so much

>>16242482
So you admittedly don't have experience driving in snow. Maybe you're just having a laff but your anecdotal experience doesn't make you qualified to advise people to disable critical safety systems

>>16241234
Get out of my fucking state

>>16242548
i think youre confused on the term anecdotal

i linked a source that says i'm right, you're the one with anecdotal information experiences which are meaningless, faggot

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>>16242487
>Scandinavian Flick
Like this?

>>16242653
yes, shame the start is kinda cut off so you don't see the full initiation

>>16241234
I've streetraced against your car in winter it did quite well in a foot of snow.

Honestly it's all about smooth inputs and remembering that the only thing that causes accidents is poorly picked speed, nothing else.

Just take it to some empty snowy parkinglot or whatever and learn to control the car in this new weather to learn how it works.
also winter tyres help a lot.

Seeing as you're on /o/ you'll love winter in your rwd.

>>16244089
forgot to add watch out for literally invisible mirror smooth black ice that magically grants you the power of oversteer at random.

Almost spun yesterday. In an awd with winter tyres. Because there was a tiny tiny patch of black ice on the bend that was literally invisible

>>16242159
Most of Michigan is flat I can't see snow tires as a necessity there. I made it through 5 winners in Toledo with all seasons.

>>16241234
ive lived in michigan my whole life, i drive a rwd all year, its not that bad. my best advice to you is slow the fuck down, snow tire tires help alot, also slow down

I drive a lowered 330i in the winter in canada.

200lbs of sands bags and good winter tires and its still a pile of shit. These cars came with traction control instead of a limit slip diff so as soon as the wheels slip it just slams on the brakes and stops you dead. turn it off and one wheels spins and you don't move.

All the forums say that youll be fine with winter tires but they don't know wtf they are talking about or are used to an inch of snow.

Not saying it isn't fun in the snow, its extremely fun it's just a huge pile of shit traction wise. if i come to a stop on a slight grade im fucked.

>>16244392
So you're saying as long as both rear wheels spin it makes it a bit easier?

>>16244392
See >>16242159

Get a subie, 4wd is all you need

>>16244375
Probably the best advice I've read in years.

>>16241234
Don't slam on the brakes, don't slam on the gas, don't change lanes quickly. Pay attention to other people and how they are driving, people tend to do dumb fucking shit like pull out in front of you while you're doing 50 and it's actively snowing.

You're also getting off lucky if you're in SE MI, we haven't had snow yet. West side of the state or northern half have had a little bit

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Remember that EVERY aspect of your car is diminished. Acceleration, braking, traction, steering and so on.

Winter tires will help you in all aspects, but they do not make you invincible - the worlds best winter tires will still have less grip on snow than the worlds worst summer tires will have in summer. I dont know what Michigan winters are like so I can't say if you need winter tires, all seasons or if average summers are fine