what does /o/ think of antilag? why is it only used in rallying?

Used in drifting and drag racing too dingus

>>15964200
Lol.
You mean lighting off raw fuel in your exhaust to build pressure to spool the tarbo?
>1) illegal on public roads
>2) massive fuel consumption
>3) danger of shrapnel when your exhaust rusts and explodes because you don't rebuild your car after every race

expensive
complicated

that weird dodge shadow by shelby used antilag system too

>>15964214
>two of the memiest
"racing" sports ever

i'm talking about racing that involves a mix of straights and turns, not just one or the other.

>>15964218
how in the fuck is that illegal? you realize that lighting off fuel behind your exhaust is no different right? there's this thing called a valve...
>rusting after a race
oh i see you're fucking retarded. carry on.

>>15964200
>why is it only used in rallying
also in WTCC

>>15964200
There's a lot of car companies working on stuff like that for production cars. Anything like that has to be incredibly reliable though. It's ok if the newest SatNav technology likes to shit itself 6mos into the life of the car (well not really), but major engine components need to last.

I think Volvo had a cool design in the works a year or two ago. I think it was either an electric motor or compressed air used to spool up the tarbo before the exhaust gets to it.

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>>15964218
>>2) massive fuel consumption

because the turbo doesn't already consume more fuel

>>15964200
Im about to go buy an a 2.2t 20v audi tomorrow and I plan to build a megasquit / buying a VEMS just so I can run antilag

>>15964262
i want to put one in a twin turbo flat six but im not sure how to approach it if at all.

>>15964200
>>15964259
Oh, and I believe Alfa was messing around with the design of running extra rich so unburnt fuel goes through the exhaust valves and then ignites and expands in the exhaust manifold or downpipe to help spool the turbo up. But that leads to a whole other set of issues with emissions and heat.

>>15964226
Installing a device into your exhaust to introduce fuel and then burning it is illegal in all 50 states.

And you've never seen rust on an exhaust?
Most people don't go through their car every weekend like rally mechanics do.

You're an idiot.

>>15964200
>what does /o/ think of antilag?
Twin scroll VGT's have less problems with destroying exhaust manifolds, and offer similar performance.

>>15964214
>drag racing
Not on anything with a torque converter automatic. Why would you?

>>15964260
>you must be 18 to post on this site.

>>15964278
>And you've never seen rust on an exhaust?

wow rust exists in an exhaust that somehow means antilag is bad. nice enstein.

>>15964259
Volvo already uses that compressed air system on their current XC90 diesels. Already drove one.

>>15964260
The turbo does not consume fuel - the air it compresses has to be burned with fuel to create meaningful (crank) power.

Antilag is basically just wasting fuel to get that turbo to spool and behave with response.

>>15964291
Introducing excess pressure and heat can ruin a manifold though.

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>>15964200
>>15964259
Here's an article on Volvo's anti-lag system that has been in the works for a few years. Straight from /o/'s favorite news outlet:
http://jalopnik.com/volvos-powerpulse-technology-aims-to-end-turbo-lag-fore-1745961554

>>15964294
except that to match AR mix ratios you are adding more fuel to burn with the corresponding increase in air pressure.

>>15964291
>admits exhausts commonly rust and are compromised structurally.
>still thinks causing an explosion in it is no big deal.

You're a special type of stupid.

>>15964286
You lack basic understanding of how an IC engine operates.

Think about this for at least half a second:
Why does a turbocharged engine make more power than a normally aspirated engine?

>>15964273
Just do a lot of reading, understand how it works, what it does exactly. Then it is basically just need an engine management software that can handle it that program and either programming it yourself or paying a tuner to do it. You also will free flowing exhaust, no catalytic converters. The rest of the turbo parts need to be pretty high quality too, if your turbo is off ebay it will probably blow itself up very quickly. Cooling is the other issues to have to look into, The car im looking at tomorrow the turbo is oil + coolant cooled so it should be good. You definitely are taking away life expectancy on your turbo every time you hit it though but thats just something you will have to accept.

>>15964278
You dont install anything into your exhaust the fuel lights itself due to the exhaust/manifold temperature being so hot.

>>15964305
>thinks there's no such thing as treated headers and that a raw pipe is used

i can't tell if you're trolling me.

>>15964200
>antilag
implying that lag isn't part of the fun of turbo cars

>>15964311
Not him, but they start to make more power at higher revs, and that's when they consume more fuel. If you drive like an old lady and never get above 1750rpm, the engine won't have much more power than the same exact engine without a turbo and will consume close to the same fuel.

But yeah, 2.0L turbo engine generally sucks in more air, burns more fuel, and creates more power than a 2.0L N/A engine.

>>15964320
Like vtec is much more fun than i-vtec

>>15964311
Key word
>internal
Having an EXTERNAL explosion is completely different.

Having an increased mass of air/fuel also increases power output.

Dumping fuel in the exhaust only decreases lag, it does not increase power by itself.

Stop posting or you'll just get destroyed further.

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>>15964315
so instead of putting two smaller turbos instead of a single larger turbo, would antilag let one put two big ass turbos without lag at the cost of higher stress on the exhaust system?

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>>15964200
Did you mean
>MISFARINGU SYSTEMU
?

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>>15964336
>decrease the amount of time it takes for a turbo, which is burning more fuel, to activate
>it does not increase power in itself so it does not increase power hurrr

no YOU need to stop posting son.

>>15964278
>Installing a device into your exhaust to introduce fuel and then burning it is illegal in all 50 states.

I'm not sure how its legislated, but you're not installing a device to introduce fuel into the exhaust. It would introduce air into the exhaust. The fuel system is unmodified.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_qCd6Lx7pE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7qQi6aFEag

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2771/External-Combustion-Rocket-Anti-Lag-System-JDM-Spec-C-Impreza-STI.aspx

Those EGTs probably aren't very friendly to your turbine wheel or other exhaust components.

>>15964315
>you don't install anything
No, the fuel magically appears.
If you don't run a direct injection system, then the only option is to have ignition cutoff- which requires inertia to keep rpm's going and raw fuel to get dumped into the exhaust.
So now you engine has slowed down from peak rpm's by the time the turbo spools.

You've never dealt with either system, I have.
Go back to reading magazines.

>>15964336
Whats your point?
Do you actually know how a turbocharged engine operates, or are you just a shitposting faggot?

>>15964337
Cutting six mental corners at a time here, but yes, basically.

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>>15964362
>No, the fuel magically appears.

what do you think puts fuel and air into/ out of your engine?

>>15964315
Somebody needs to start making and selling the electric turbos as an aftermarket unit. Seems like a much saver and easy way. When just cruising or decelerating, the electric motor acts like an alternator and charges the battery. Then uses that same electricity to power the motor and spool up the turbo.

Theoretically the electric motor could be built into a new turbo so it is just one unit. Run some power to it, run another cable to the car's ECU and get a tune for the existing ECU, and then connect the tuned ECU to some small computer responsible for controlling the electric motor on the turbo.

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/3340/the-turbocharger-revolution-using-electric-motors

>>15964218
>anti lag
>using anything other then stainless steel exhaust.

>>15964387
>not using titanium with diamond like coating.

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>>15964362
>direct injection
I think that was part of the system I read about that I believe Alfa was doing. With the direct injection of fuel and VVT along with forced induction, there was some trick to inject a bit of fresh air and fuel while the exhaust valves are open so you get that burn in the downpipe and spool up the turbo.

I can't seem to find that article anywhere. I read about it a couple years ago and I swear it was Alfa's newer direct injected turbo gasoline engines.

>>15964218
All the reasons you listed aren't even important, its not even illegal.

The most important reason why it isn't used is because it destroys turbos.

>>15964362
Its an interesting point.
A DI engine's fuel system is more suited to anti lag.
However, are you talking from the perspective of launching the engine from a dig?

If you're on track and either deaccelerating, or changing gear the throttle would be closed so the engine is losing inertia anyway (unless it fly by wire with some fancy mapping to hold the throttle open).
I can't see a reason why spark cut or very retarded timing wouldn't work in that situation.

>>15964403
couldn't you coat the turbo with heat resistant materials like titanium carbide?

>>15964372
turbo has nothing to do with fuel delivery.
>>15964364
I've built cars for SEMA little kid.
I have more forced induction parts sitting in my garage than you've ever seen.

Jesus this board has become pathetic.
Do any of you even have a drivers license?!

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>>15964419
that had nothing to do with the turbo i was talking about the valvetrain lol

>>15964416
I think its a combination of heat and shock, which is hard to design a material that can take both for prolonged durations.

>>15964416
It's less about the heat and more about the fact that you're turning your turbo's turbine housing into a combustion chamber

>>15964414
Not talking about DI into the engine.

Anti lag systems need fuel delivered into the exhaust.
You can either have a passive system that cuts out spark and uses the unburned fuel from a revved engine or you can inject the fuel directly into the exhaust.

>>15964337
Its only really used for launching or roll racing so if your not doing that the the two big ass turbos would have massive lag at any other point.

>>15964362
I have never claimed to have made one of these systems myself but you are primarily using parts that are already in place, at most you will have a pipe dumping air into the exhaust but there are many different ways to go about antilag and this is not a way that I would go about it for a street car.

antilag at 1:16 +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VuKd2VQwWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lckXqMU50J4

>>15964403
>not even illegal
Find a C.A.R.B. number then.

>>15964432
I guess it depends on the regulations of the formula you race in.

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>>15964432
>need fuel delivered
They actually don't, see the rocket above.

>>15964433
>at most a pipe dumping air
Where are you getting the fuel?

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>>15964454

>>15964445
>CARB
Why the fuck are you talking about California?
You cant modify anything in California.

>>15964462
What is a fuel injector for 300 points.

I think some of the confusion in this thread is from the multitude of different ways to go about achieving an anti lag system

>>15964462
Engine management?

>>15964419
I very much doubt that.
Also never heard of SEMA

>>15964477
>>15964479
Jesus you're fucking dense.
Its like you don't even understand anything except some buzzwords you're neighbor said.

I covered DIRECT INJECTION INTO THE EXHAUST and USING THE ECU TO DISABLE SPARK TO DUMP RAW FUEL FROM THE CYLINDERS INTO THE EXHAUST.

Both are illegal in all 50 states.
Both use massive amounts of fuel.

>>15964484
>never heard of SEMA
I'm fucking out of this thread.
Waste of my time with a bunch of benchracers.

>>15964507
>>15964513
Not everyone lives in the land of freedom dumbass

There is a guy who did a 2JZ swap into a FC I believe, and he spools the tarbo off a roots blower. He is at full boost at idle.

>>15964428
This guy's on the right track. Look up high and low cycle fatigue on rotating machinery. Also consider blowby past the turbine seal rings, and the turbine housings which are thinner for weight reduction on race applications.

T. Garrett engineer for the 1.6L GRE engine for wrc and wtcc

>>15964507
Can you link the specific law that prohibits it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11687nVdzdk

What if instead of using a piston engine to power your jet engine you put a jet engine next to your piston engine to power your jet engine to boost your piston engine?

>>15964528
Did you do any work for RML.
I was reading about their WTCC 1600 engine the other day. Interesting shit.

>>15964423
kek

i hope this is not a shop

>>15964559
We're the homologated supplier so yes we supplied RML. I came in to supoort 2017+ projects so I haven't dealt with them. The 1.6L global race engine is definitely a cool piece of machinery .

>>15964479
>>15964477
>>15964462
Can't you just run it really rich too? If the A/F ratio is higher than the 14:1 and incredibly rich, the oxygen should throretically be all used up with the regular explosion so the leftover fuel plus exhaust gasses goes out the exhaust valves. As soon as more oxygen and heat gets to that, there should be ignition. Right?

>>15964300
why not just use the compressed air directly in the engine?

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>>15964200
>colored anodized fittings
WHY ARE THEY ALWAYS COLORED IT LOOKS LIKE STUPID SHIT WHY CAN'T THEY JUST STOP AND KEEP THEM SILVER OR AT LEAST ANODIZE THEM GREY OR BLACK

>>15964484
>Also never heard of SEMA

so... you're not really into cars and you're just trying this sock on or was your brain hemorrhaged at some point and we should collectively lower our expectations?


please use a trip code for the good of community health

>>15964965
>being this autistic

>>15964907
Because it will take the path of least resistance and go back out the intake to the turbocharger

>>15964965
im gonna take the time to explain it to you since you obviously don't have a dad

the different colours mean different spec/ kind fittings

>bam blew your brain out

it's a colour code it's not there to be cool

fuck off and die

>>15964992
>engraving doesn't exist
>mixing specs of fittings
uh yeah about that

>>15964995
shhh im trying to suppress the autism fueled post with bullshit

>>15964992
That's crap. If it was just to denote spec they would stamp or etch stuff on it, anodizing is a far more expensive and time consuming process.

>>15964507
Maybe I am an idiot, but arguing with someone on an anonymous internet board also makes you an idiot. I am simply trying to have a discussion about anti lag and you have to start calling people names because you do not agree with what I am saying. If what I am saying is wrong please link me a credible source explaining why don't just call me an idiot.

>>15964531
Probably only illegal due to violation of noise and emission regulations but the I can't see how the systems itself would be illegal unless you live in CA.

>>15964786
Two-step anti-lag/launch control

A method of anti-lag developed along the same technique previously mentioned, but designed only to allow reduction of turbo lag when a car is initially pulling away from a standing start. These systems can be integrated into the engine management or existing anti-lag system, or can be fitted as a standalone unit. The basic method of operation is to artificially lower the engine rev limiter to hold the engine at a speed where the turbo can produce usable boost, by altering the ignition. Because the ignition is alternately cut or retarded, there is similar noise and misfires associated with other anti-lag systems. Systems for two-step launch designed to be fitted in addition to the existing engine management work by interrupting the crank position sensor signal, so that the engine develops a controlled misfire at a pre-determined RPM. The basic premise of the launch control system is to build positive boost pressure from a static engine, releasing full or increased power to the wheels when the car starts to move off.


Straight of Wikipedia, Heres the sources they linked I didn't read through the articles yet but they actually look like a pretty good read so I will at some point later.

http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

http://brewedmotors.com/blog/turbo-antilag-als-tuning-rally-style-secondary-air-injection

OK.
Using ECU to dead spark to dump fuel into the exhaust.
Now you have fuel washing the oil off of the cylinder walls for 2 strokes (power and exhaust) and a piston doing 6k rpms with no lube.

You will also foul plugs in those cylinders.

This is not negotiable.
This is not an opinion.
This is what happens.
If you argue and say these two points then you don't understand what's happening and shouldn't be posting on this forum.

On a race car, this is no big deal since during the week you have a crew changing out anything. On a DD or private track days car, it's all on you. I guarantee you're going to Roach something.

>>15964976
Fuck off yankie.
no one gives a fuck about "pick up trucks" or push rods.

>>15964786
Although the concept seems plausible, real world applications would be massive missfires, fouled plugs and even stalling because fuel wasn't able to burn at all.
Not to mention all that fuel washing the oil from the cylinders againit takes alot of fuel to do this.
There's a reason it's only used on competition vehicles with sponsors and pit crews- engine reliability after a race turns to shit.
Sure you can run it for a year on the street- but who's going to do a rebuild every year?