Which brand has fallen furthest, BMW or Ferrari?

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Has Ferrari started making FWD minivans?

>>15865500
>>15865500
>>15865500
/thread

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>>15865500
No but they are pretty close.

>>15865488
Ferrari's rough patch was around the time of the 360/430

>>15865488
BMW without a doubt

They're both shit but BMW is basically the new Toyota, they have too many cars on their lineup.

Neither really.

BMW has always been an aspirational brand. Upstarts and wannabes who find security in the artificial prestige of a beemer.

Ferrari has tragically, always produced legitimate sports cars and track machines..... 99% of which are bought by people who know and care little about motorsport and instead are simply interested in status symbols. Enzo Ferrari lamented this as far back as the 50s

As for quality and craftsmanship, they've only gotten better.(yes, even considering BMW decade of engineering malaise between 2000 and 2009)

>>15865488
>implying they had anywhere to fall in the first place

>>15865488
BMW. Ferrari may be a douchebag brand that tries its best to make it impossible for anyone to compare their halo car to the (superior) competition, but BMW jumped the shark YEARS ago. Hell, even their naming convention is fucking stupid now.

>328 is a 2.0L turbo 4
>340 is a 3L turbo 6
>completely pointless nomenclature change "M3" to "M3" or "M4"
>M6 "gran coupe" is not a coupe, and there has never been a 4 door M6

And let's not forget the wet-fart-sounding twin turbo 6 in the M3, which has always been a high strung NA car that was more about muh feels than muh burgerkingring times. And the hideous heap of dogshit that is the i3, and the exercise in over-styling that is the painfully busy i8. BMW has gone from making understate world-class cars with second-to-none driving dynamics to bloated, over-styled, gaudy status symbols on wheels.

>>15865537
>As for quality and craftsmanship, they've only gotten better.(yes, even considering BMW decade of engineering malaise between 2000 and 2009)
there's no craftmanship in a modern bmw, maybe their machine tolerances have improved or their suppliers use better materials but that's about it

>>15865562
>no craftsmanship
.........Maybe it's a matter of opinion then. You could say that BMWs no longer have the panache they once enjoyed, but I still think that they're(5 series and above) one of the more sophisticated and stylish machines on the road

>>15865524
Fuck off nigga
The FF is gr8
No hating on shooting brakes
We need more

I unironically believe China/Russia/ME and Mercedes/Lexus are why BMW went to shit.

China because they saw $$$$ in diluting the ///M brand from "Ultimate Driving Machines" to stupid fucking gaudy numbers cars and increase the prices a good 25% because they know stupid motherfuckers will buy anything with a propeller badge.

Lexus/Mercedes because from the early 1990s onward they quit being 75% sports car 25% luxury car to building isolated barges that drive like shit. Every 3-Series from E30 onward just progressively got worse and worse. And now we have stupid fucking cars like the M3/M4.

I could forgive their shitty build quality and engineering if they still drove like their 1990s cars did.

>>15865582

not to mention the awd system is the tits

two gearboxes? one hooked right to the front of the crankshaft? that shit is crazy

>>15866233

sounds reliable as FUG!

>>15866257

when a car is driven 2,000 miles a year it doesn't really need to be super reliable, especially when you have 10 other cars

but if you're poor and only have one car, maybe two, then yes it is very important for it to be reliable

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>>15866217
>Every 3-Series from E30 onward just progressively got worse and worse.

Get real.

E46>E36>E92>E30>whothefuckcaresaboutthecurrentM3

>>15866274
If you're only driving it 2000 miles a year why would you buy an FF in the first place? It's meant to be a practical and fast country crosser, hence the AWD and extended interior space.

>>15865553
who the fuck cares about muh naming
328i/340i etc are performance indexes now, Mercedes has been doing the same since ~2005

>>15866217
>I'm talking out of my ass and parroting what I heard on /o/: the post
>>15866426
>E92 lower than E36
This has to be bait

>>15866436

you're asking the wrong guy. go to ferrarichat and look up some of their reasons

>>15866426
>Never drove a E30 M3

>>15866481
>Never drove a E36 M3

>>15866474
proof mercedes has been ruining cars since the dawn of time

bmw's pursuit to be more like mercedes is ironic because now AMGs are more fun to drive than ///M cars

>>15865582
Probably one of the ugliest ferrari's ever made. Overrated, overpriced, poor build quality, barely fits people in the back even with a manlet driving.

>>15866851
>barely fits people in the back even with a manlet driving.
a lot like your mother then

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Ferrari is just you modern Hybrid cliché supercar for Footballers.

Moderns BMW are just a middle life crisis management tool for short, angry balding men. Unreliable fat turds overstuffed with electronic dogshit. Fucking Bangle has single-handedly ruined BMW.

>>15865488

By far bmw. Ferrari still has some decency even though they've been whoring themselves out.

bmw has simple gone all out to please plebs and make as much money as they can

>>15866426

>E30 last in the list
>E36 second

Yeah. Nah. You're an idiot.

>>15867239
>Ferrari is just you modern Hybrid cliché supercar for Footballers.
What the fuck are you talking about.

>>15865488
Ferrari fallen when?

>>15866474
only a bmw fanboy could be this apologetic

>>15867667
if the fact that a 340i has a 3 litre engine is the only downside of modern bmws, they must be pretty good cars

>>15867716
Now the naming convention is the only problem? Did you even read the post you're sperging out over???

>>15867740
the rest of that post is the posters subjective opinions
>waah M cars should be n/a
>waah the i cars look ugly
>waah the new M3 sounds bad

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>>15867749
>he thinks the new M3 sounds good
>bmw fanboys faces rn

>>15865524
That is sexy as fuck.

>>15866851
>Overrated, overpriced, poor build quality, barely fits people in the back even with a manlet driving
You know damn well this is almost every ferrari

The BMW hate on this board makes me fucking laugh every time.
So many butthurt shitbox owners.

>>15865582
shooting brakes are the ugliest bodystyle ever

>>15868295
kys

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>>15868251
>So many butthurt old BMW owners

That's literally it we hate BMW because we had experience with their best cars at their peak. BMW fanboys are their biggest detractors I'd honestly look at a ATS-V or a Giulia QV before a new M3.

>Reminder this cost the same as a new M2 in 2016
>Back when a sub 5 second 0-60 was the same as a sub 3 second one is now

>>15867749
https://youtube.com/watch?v=O1S0X0oJmA4
>this
>acceptable
Lmfao BMW fangays need to rethink their life

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>>15865582
kys

Im a bit of a bmw fan boy and id definitely say bmw, If you made this thread about every car brand I would honestly still say bmw. The new stuff is absolute shit, they haven't done anything innovative or interesting since the e60 m5

>>15865488
>cancerous fan base
>no road feel
>i8 is for weaboo faggots
bmw

>>15868991
>innovative
Chasing innovation is a fool's errand. Innovation for the sake of innovation leads to shit like the new M3 and the iphone 7.

>>15869021
>cancerous fan base
you mean every car fan base in the world
so asshutrt you are.

>>15865488
BMW

>>15865500
Has Ferrari ever made any car that wasn't for oil-money shitskins and coke-addled """""""celebrities""""""" to show off their wealth in?

>>15870458

This is actually a good point. If you don't have a fan base, your just a daewoo

>>15868466
Dear god, what happened to it to sound so bad?

>>15865553

I can smell your poverty and third-world living conditions from over the internet connection. Your opinion is worthless and everyone in here knows that.

>>15871703
Wow this bmw fag sure is pissed off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ju5tr_yAPM

>BMW in charge of exhaust sound

>>15871719

Wow this terminal /o/-poster is fucking retarded. Go check on the oil leak in your 94 Dodge Neon, turn some more wrenches and think you look like Paul Walker. Delusion everywhere.

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>>15871808
Holy shit we have a real rabid bmw fanboy here lol

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Anyone implying that BMW no longer innovates is a moron.

>>15871962

It can't do anything better than the tesla, it looks dumb and it is expensive. They aren't even common here in germany, or at least where I live. Teslas are more popular here.

>>15866217
Lexus was always about luxury barges. They got their start with the LS400.

>>15871742
What exactly is wrong with it

>>15871542
Yeah, they've made plenty of successful race cars.

>hurr durr bmw is shit
>nobody is explaining why, just insulting the drivers over and over
Great thread guys, you sure proved everyone who the immature retards are

bmw is a joke compared to what it used to be

ferrari still makes insane cars


???

>>15874835
Automatic hatchbacks aren't insane lmao

>>15874825
Uh, it sounds like shit dude