How do we fix the dangerous motorist problem, without simply

>self-driving cars become common as fuck
>driving tests become stricter
>traditional car insurance becomes more costly

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Tiered licensing similar to motorcycles in the EU, only the higher tiers require not just the same test on a larger machine (which is fine for a motorcycle since larger bikes ride different than smaller bikes), but far more complex tests.

That way people will at least be limited in the damage that they can do when shitty drivers would only be allowed something like a Fiat 500, if anything.

There's all sorts of other arguments you can make for this as well, such as emissions and fuel economy.

You can't make it financial because these people love their cars too much to care that they have to spend half their income on them.

>>15861164
Except the system in the EU means it's impossible for riders to go on motorways even if they've already got plenty of experience because they're so limited in what bikes they can buy. The system here in aus is a nice balance but it's still by no means perfect.

>>15861175
Here in the UK it's really annoyingly staged (we have the EU system). You basically have 125cc licence, <500cc licence, <500cc licence (It's on power, and power to weight, but let's simplify it). Pretty much any A2 bike can comfortably attain 70mph which some power to go, due to their (comparative) low weight. A kawasaki Ninja 300 is more than duel carriageway/motorway capable as are many other low-mid range motorbikes (note: capable, not comfortable).

But many training centres don't carry these far more "useful" bikes, but rather restrict very heavy and delicate (in terms of controls when compared to a 125cc, which is pretty much pinned at all times) machines. So what this means is that you have a stage of motorcycle that would appeal to many people as a USEFUL machine, that they don't have access to as easily as they should. The difference between a 125cc and a >600cc is massive; the difference between a 125cc and a 250cc-400cc is not so much.

What this all translates to is that many people who would have great difficulty with these large machines (I'm a woman who's 5'3") can't get the bikes that suit them totally fine. I failed my mod2 once because we were stuck at lights for so long that I lost the strength in my leg due to the weight on it at the angle I had to have the bike to even get my toe on the ground. And don't get me started on the manual handling portion of the Mod1.

I ended up passing on a A2 compliant bike, but now I have a limited licence which is a real pain.

My idea would be that the A1 and A2 are combined to an extent, where the A1 is just the CBT (which instead lasts 5 years), and passing the tests on an A1 bike gives you A2 eligibility.

>>15861243
Just realised I was a little unclear at the start.
>A2 bike can comfortably attain 70mph
I meant that the bikes have the power to get to 70 without straining the engine.

>duel carriageway/motorway capable as are many other low-mid range motorbikes (note: capable, not comfortable).
I meant to say that they have a drop in power after these speeds, meaning that if you need to speed up to avoid something, you'll find it difficult.

So while the speed is comfortable, the riding at that speed in traffic is not.

Hope that's all a bit clearer.

>>15859452
Institute driving bands for anyone breaking traffic laws or driving dangerously.
Make driving without a license a capital offence, administered at the roadside.

Sadly this actually has nothing to do with anyones driving skill. Most people can drive completely fine.
The problem is social. People dont associate cars with people. I noticed this recent. If you have ever been riding with someone that got cut off and they say "That Car just cut me off!". It is a complete disconnect. They recognize the car and not the person. On top of that the chance that you will ever have to interact with that person again is very minimal.
Sadly these days everyone has a "ME" mentality. What ever they are doing will always be more important then what ever you are doing.
30 cars waiting in the turn lane? Im late to work so ill just drive to the very front and force my way in.
I see this shit every day and i do my best to not let those type of people in.
I try to be a courteous driver as much as possible giving people plenty of room and letting people in front of me most of the time.
But when people purposefully try to not wait in the turn lane Fuck them.
If people all understood we are all people and we are all trying to get someone and no one is more important then anyone else we wouldnt have these problems.

>>15861550
What you're saying is just something inherent with the medium. Like with the internet.

Bikers will always have a subconscious "they can see who I am" even if you're wrapped up and wearing a full helmet. Cars don't have that effect. And it's made worse by people who have this mentality even more are often in the biggest cars.

The roads are just generally shitty places now. Even "open" country lanes you should find pretty sparse are actually quite populated and often in a poor state of repair.

I remember having an epiphany in SE Asia once on an old underbone, that this absolute chaos is actually preferable to our current road system of sticking big boxes in a finite space.

>>15861488
In all honesty, this. I love driving in the US because it feels a bit lawless and dangerous on the road sometimes (people in my state can't drive for shit and cops don't care until the last week of the month) but laws that are more strict would make people take it a bit more seriously. An example of this is safety in F1 over the decades, since the rules were made more strict (and enforced) things got safer

You can fuck off with your whiny commie bullshit you sonofabitch

>>15861971
Aye it's a fellow red blooded patriot how's everything over in your neck of the woods? I just finished fucking my sister and I'm on my 3rd beer. Heil Trump and fuck dem libtardds hell yea

>>15861983
damn right

Several dozen hours of mandatory driving lessons with a professional, state approved instructor, 60 minute driving test in real traffic, city and highway. It's the only way.

>>15862233
We have that in the UK, pretty much. Doesn't help for shit.

>>15862238
It's far from good, but still a thousand times better than America.

>>15859452
Mandatory 10 year tests.

It's people who are locked in lazy, bad habbits creating danger - the vast majority of kids I see who have had to deal with 100x the hoops to jump through for a license compared to their parents are RELATIVELY safe

>>15859452
capital punishment

First, reduce traffic density. Invest in mass transit. As traffic density increases, you need redesigned roads, and we don't and can't have those.

Then, make the laws less illogically draconian and rewrite them to adapt to conditions, and make driver training more in-depth to account for the new laws and the smaller number of drivers. Driving schools would rent out tracks instead of parking lots, and promising vehicle operators would have plenty of skid pad time under their belt.

"All turns yield except when signaled"
"STOP when other traffic is present"
"Treat read light as stop sign after one cycle of the opposing light"
"All speed limits are prima facie"
"Speed limit 70MPH except in heavy traffic and adverse weather - 60MPH"
"Night speed limit 60MPH, Adverse 50MPH"

And then use the added leeway and education to give people more severe punishments, like license revocation and a mandatory FULL course after any two inractions, at the driver's expense

>i know you know better
>the law isn't stupid, it's flexible, what you were doing was just plain unsafe

>>15859452
education.

>>15862733
I don't think "investing" in mass transit will ever get more people on it. We instead need to make sustainable methods to be more attractive, and separate vulnerable road users from large auto-mobiles. and give up on the "share the road" meme.

>>15859452
>How do we fix the dangerous motorist problem
learn to drive OP
sounds like everyone else gets it and you're a whiney little bitch.

>>15862733
>Invest in mass transit
all congestion is caused by pedestrians.

>Slow ass buses
>buses stopped in the road blocking traffic
>pedestrian controlled traffic lights
>traffic lights that favour buses
>empty bus lanes
>cyclists shitting up the road
>empty cycle lanes that could support traffic

My solution would be to abolish 90% of traffic lights and ban buses

>>15861550
Dude WTF?!
Learn to drive

>1) Never let anyone in
>2) Always push in
>3) NEVER STOP FOR A YELLOW LIGHT
>4) Fuck you

>>15863282
>1) Never let anyone in
>2) Always push in
What a considerate road user you are.

>>15863307
Rule four buddy. Rule four

>>15861666
>>15861550
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
This is the biggest problem needing solving.

I'm really fucking tired of someone almost fucking me and not owning up to it.

>>15863194
I stop at stop signs.
I do not push yellows.
I use my blinkers.
If I see someone doing something wrong, and me continuing to do what is legally 'right', I do no continue doing it.

I know how to drive, both legally and practically.

>>15862733
Hmmm, disagree. Every cager thinks speeding is safe so long as everyone speeds. Every motorists knows it's not the speed that kills, but the lack of reaction time and space to maneuver in.
In my daily driving area, I see the difference between those doing 25 and those doing 30 when it comes to safety.

The fuck is with tailgater mentality? Are tailgaters so stupid that they think they are getting places faster?

>>15863994
Stop being a pussy and welcome death with open arms

I drive an early 90's shitbox with no airbags and never wear my seatbelt. People are just too safe of drivers where I live to kill me. It sucks.