'83 Firebird

Beat to shit non-running turd gen, $500

>>15524729
Pay whatever and do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUYDrPuTnjk

>>15524760
This. non-running turd gens aren't worth anything.

>call local wrecking yards
>ask them what they would pay you for scrap value
>offer that
it's a malaise-era third gen. "numbers matching" means nothing. LQ4 + 4L80E and call it a day.

>>15524729
Beat to shit and running? Maybe 5k. Depends on how beat to shit we're talking. Even one in excellent condition wouldn't be more than 10.

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Numbers matching doesn't mean that much for a 1983 since they were kind of shit until 1987. Here in South Ontario that would be around $1000-$1500, unless it looks like pic related which is about $500. Start browsing thirdgen.org and do whatever you want with the car.

>tfw no 88-89 firebird project car

OP here. There is a chance it may be a 1987. He isn't sure. How could i tell if it is a 1987.

>>15524938
check the registration

>>15524956
So, all said and done anyways. $500? I'm also getting a 1988 Mr2 from him for free. It turns over, but sat outside for 15 years. All the electrical works. Did some troubleshooting on it. Needs new fuel injectors to crank. It's not getting any gas. I've already swapped the pump and cleaned the tank.

>>15524979
the mr2 will be a rust bucket

>>15525004
Has some rust on the shell and fenders, also some rust where the ttops leaked. Down to the bolts of the seat

>>15524729
$500 and then turn it into a Knight Industries Two Thousand. Drive around in a leather jacket and be a badass.

>>15525056
I can agree with this.

Don't pay any more than 2k for sure. If it's numbers matching it's a 305 at best, definitely nothing special unless it has seats with "PMD" on them and even then it's meh. Like someone said, check the registration for model year, but if his car looks like this one, it has the 82-84 bumper on it, Also, the tail light had a different style in 82-84 than the later base/formula/trans ams. If all else fails, VIN.

I bought my 87 305 base with t tops for $1200, 180k miles and still runs well. Just bought a 91 TA with a 350 crate for $5k. The prices vary a ton on these cars but yours in particular is going to be nothing special.

Someone is trying to sell an 83 Trans Am with PMD seats, 25k miles around here for $15k. Missing mirror, cigarette burns in seat, and rust. He gets BTFO daily. I don't see anything before 87 TPI really being too valuable in the near future though. Good luck to you

I have a C63 right now with a fully built motor with a twin turbo setup running 16 psi. She makes about 900 at the wheels with shitty 91 california pump gas, have a tune for E85 that makes about 1050. Will light the tires at 90mph on the highway. shit is insane.

>>15525556
Would building the firebird be worth my time more than the mr2? I love both cars

>>15525561

Bread on hood. Timestamp. Dump sheet. Something.

>>15525624

I don't know how big the aftermarket supply is for MR2 parts since I don't like Toyota, but you can find Camaro/Firebird parts anywhere. The communities are great (thirdgen.org) and in my opinion prices are reasonable, not to mention a few 4th gen parts (like the rear) are direct swaps for quick improvements.

I'd say you can't go wrong with a third gen, just know if you want to put down any kind of power you'll want a 350, so you'd need a tank, sending unit, etc from a 350 car. With that being said though a lot of parts are junkyard available too and were found on vettes, firebirds, camaros, and even trucks. But I'm perfectly content with the 305 in my 87 and if you want a low maintenance cruiser to maybe overhaul down the road, I'd say Firebird all the way

>>15525668
Sounds good to me.

What kind of motors could i drop into the firebird? Are any direct fit or very few modifications? I want to have power but comfort too.

>>15525722

If it's a 305 car you could re use the motor mounts for at least any gen 1 350 and I "think" 400s, maybe later ones too, not sure. But you would need to change the fuel system, etc. and wouldn't hurt to get a TH350 transmission or build up your existing trans if you plan to 350 swap.

>>15525762

Yeah man, a 400 SBC will fit 305 SBC motor mounts. Rear end will need to be done too, the little ten bolt will not take a four-hunnid for long.

>>15525722
350 would be the way to go.

listen to
>>15525762


When it comes to 350 engines, I'd go for a 1986+ engine, specifically because in 1986 they switched to a 1 piece rear main seal that is less prone to leaking. 1955-1985 engines use a 2 piece rear main seal.
Beware though. A lot of aftermarket is specifically for the 2 piece seals only. Not saying the 1 piece seals don't have support, but it's not as much.

>>15525775
upgrading the rear end of an F-body is an expensive endeavor. You're talking 2-3k

>>15525775

This. My 305 with 180k miles is doing just fine with the 10 bolt, but my 91 needs a new one. 4th Gen Trans Ams/Z28s manual cars will have 28 spline axles with 3.42 gear (3.23 auto) and LT1 brakes from 93-97 and LS1 from 98-02. Most rear ends 89+ are beefed up with 28 spline vs 26 but if you're on a budget a low mileage 4th gen rear is the way to go, only mod needed is for e brake I think, correct me if I'm wrong.

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>>15525786

I'm aware.

>>15525786

An old friend of mine had an $80 4th gen rear installed on his 92 GTA and I think it lasted 2-3 years of hard driving and some drag strip days, and multiple trips to Florida, Maryland, and North Carolina from Ohio. Definitely not a Moser or Strange, but it's a big step up from the common 2.73 drums

>>15525800

Fuck.

So where can i find a 400 crate and tranny to match? Is there any modification needed to get them to fit?

>>15524729

You better be turning it into KITT.

>>15525827
it's easier to find a 350 crate. You can still get them from GM through dealers.

>>15525853

And even through a place like Summit or Jegs. Living 40 minutes from Tallmadge is an expensive hobby

>>15525827

Transmission crossmember and driveshaft if you choose to move to a Turbo-Hydramatic. You'll need larger diameter fuel lines to the tank and back if you are using a return reg, larger lines from the tank if you are using a dead head regulator. Get the radiator rodded as the 400 will be putting a lot more heat into the cooling system. You will need a higher torque starter motor as the model on the 305 won't like turning a 400 for long, if at all. Don't use the ignition system used with the Rochester CCC (if you have it), just a GM HEI in-cap or an MSD/ICE/whatever system with a spark box.

Then you will need subframe connectors as the chassis is made of wet noodles and the four hunnid is going to make it hurt.

Plenty fast and fun at the end of it all, but it's not the easiest journey.

>>15525870
Sounds expensive. Haha. Damn. I would love it though. How much power could i squeeze out of the 305?

>>15526132
You'd have to spend just about as much or more on building it as you would just dropping in a 350, and then you've built this motor that you have no room to grow more on, but you would have room to grow on a crate 350.

>>15526141
I see.

>>15526141
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-10067353
Worth?

>>15526132
>How much power could i squeeze out of the 305?
You'll be lucky to get 300 HP. The 305 is SHIT at making power because of the tiny cylinder bores and long as stroke. The 350 on the other hand is glorious at making power.

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>>15526171
Looks good, but I'd look for one with aluminum heads though.

Also keep in mind that you're going to need either a low profile intake manifold and carburetor or fuel injection for it to fit under the stock hood. Anything taller and you'll need a raised cowl hood.

Alternatively, an LS1 out of a junkyard chevy express + T56, pedal assembly, and rear end out of a 4th gen f-body is a popular and not TOO expensive swap. There's even kits for it. It'll be more reliable and get better fuel economy than the 350, plus much more power and it fits under the stock hood.

>>15526171
If you're gonna get a 350 crate, make it a decent one to start with.
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/zz6-base.html

>>15526195
That's also 7 times the price lol.

>>15526191
I'm fine with raising the hood. I think it looks pretty slick on the firebird

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>>15526206
Just making sure you knew. I'm in the same boat, my dad gave me his 4 speed manual/4 wheel disc 82 Z28 on the condition that I make it roadworthy. Luckily it was running, just needed tires and all new brakes and a couple other things here and there. Still a lame 305 with a flattened cam, though. Removing the cat and advancing the timing got me about 30 horsepower.

Raising the hood isn't an option for me, as it's had an extremely high quality aftermarket pearl paint job and trying to get new paint to match would be expensive and a massive pain in the ass. I'm probably going to end up going the LS1+T56 route because of that, as much as I love the sound of a rochester quadrajet at wide open throttle.

>>15526231
How much would that set up run? The ls1 and tranny?

>>15526231
>>15526303
Something like this is what i want right? Then rebuild the parts and clean them up.

>>15524938
1983 = no center brake light
1987 = center brake light on outside of rear hatch.

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>>15526231
Convert that bitch to a nice roller cam :^)

Here's my 5 speed '91 GTA.

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>>15524729
You're getting the wrong one, anon.
They're not worth much unless top trim levels anyways, if in good condition with no rust, and everything is all there, $750, $1000 at the most
If you get it running and it's actually not a hooned to shit fireturd like all third gens, with originals worn to fuck errything, maybe $3500.
If it ain't a Z, or a GTA, you're doing it very wrong

>>15524938
If it has a third brake light in the spoiler, it's 87 or up.

>>15526608
Keep the thread alive. I'll get some pictures of it inside it's tomb of a garage. I actually live where the garage is at. Moving soon though. Which is why the cars got to move some where.

>>15524729

It depends why it's not running. If the drivetrain is toast, it's worth around $1,000 as a parts car.

If it runs strong but needs to be completely gone through and needs minor restoration, probably around $3,000.

Your dad should be giving it to you for $1,000. The expenses are going to add up fast.

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>>15526608
Z28 and GTA's are starting to command high prices.

There seems to be no middle ground with turdgens; they're either minty stock or minty built up, or a ragged out pile of shit with 10 previous owners.

>>15526608
Who cares what it's worth? You can have the same amount of fun driving a v8 sport coupe as a z28. You might even have more as you might be less worried about wrecking it.

Are you buying the car for you, or for the next owner?

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>>15526644
I blame shitty shows like gas monkey garage making people think they can just slap a new paint job on their piece of ass and because it's a top trim its work 10k even though it hardly runs.
Atleast these cars can be made to look like their top trim brethren with just decals and badges in most cases, but it just ain't the same as owning the real thing.
>in the market for 86 iroc
>can't find one that's not beat to fuck for under 8k
>wouldn't mine paying 8k if the odometer hasn't already rolled over twice
Sexiest dash of all time, amirite?

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>>15526659
I'd rather have the few performance upgrades off the jump in a GTA/TA or Z28/iroc instead of having to upgrade myself.
These cars are a dime a dozen, if you wreck it, as long as it's not a g92, 1LE or B4C car, it can be replaced, shouldn't be but so worried.

>>15526659
Opie asked

>>15526662
I don't know how to explain it.

Sitting in a turdgen gives you a feel like no other feel any other car can give you.
I'm so glad my interior is a 9/10.

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>>15526662
Not with that autotragic, but that is a really nice interior, especially for an 80's chebby.

The
>CAMARO
>CAMARO
>CAMARO
>CAMARO
seats and door panels have definitely grown on me too.

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>>15526673
My car has all the G92 goodies but it's not actually a G92.
LB9, 5 speed, 3.42 rear, N10, WS6.
It has AC though.

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>>15526688
Just sitting in one in a junkyard is God tier.
Everything about the way that interior set up is perfect, just seeing that long ass hood past that sharp ass windshield makes me giddy.
>>15526692
I'll take a autom80ic, but with a ratchet shifter cause that sound of going through the gears.
The more I see that interior, the more I like it, pictures don't do it justice. 80's as fuck, bad ass ride anon

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So here is the car in its tomb. Sat for over 15 years.
Had to upload it to postimage to make the file size smaller.
I'll post more in a sec.

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>>15526701

>>15526696
So sexy, though I prefer the pre 1991 GTA front end, that's still a damn beautiful car anon

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>>15526716

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>>15526716
86 was last year for the 305 with the quadrajunk, so I'm leaning towards your fathers guess at 83, I'm not good with firebirds myself, looks like a really solid project that should bring you months and months of headaches, increase in cursing, and loss of funds, but it'll be fun, and you'll have a bad ass car in the end.

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>>15526717
I also prefer the pre '91 front end. I think it looks better.
I might buy a parts TA and just swap all the body panels over.

In the meantime it matches my '97 so I can't complain.


I love F-Bodies. It's fun chatting with other f-body owners at meets.

>>15526721
That interior looks pretty good anon, the dash pad doesn't even looked cracked, don't think I've ever seen that color combo either. Scoop that muh fugga up and restore her to her former glory.

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>>15526721
>>15526722
I'll also be getting my uncles 77 corvette that's in there. It's a 4ksqft garage that used to be their shop for fun back in the day

>>15526701
>>15526716
>>15526721

Yeah carbed 83 auto 305.
One of the not desirable models.
Hardtop is nice though because you don't have to deal with bullshit t-top leaks.

Build a nice 350 + 700R4 for it and you'll have a stupid fun street car though.

>>15526731
All you need now is a red ls1 ws6 to complete the late F-body collection.
Beautiful cars, I prefer camaros, but I can respect well kept firechickens. Is the 97 an LTx?

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>>15526734
>>15526743
Yeah. I think it's still pretty nice. I'll post it up this Sunday when i get it out the garage and hand wash it.

Also here is the corvette I'm getting. 77 or 78. Free. Front end collision. Frame damage. Got it checked out though. It's not crooked or anything. Just got to get it bent back down.

>>15526735
If I was you, I'd sell the vette to help fund the bird, but that's just me, don't really enjoy the late c3 myself. Lucky man anon, id kill to be in your position

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>>15526744
The '97 is uhhhh well.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heXlebYvDvE

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>>15526754
I love that year vet.
Also here is the mr2 I've been troubleshooting. Getting for free too

>>15526743
Why the fuck can't I find an 86 iroc Z, factory 4 wheel discs, hard top, that isn't immaculate and costs a left nut. So difficult finding well kept hard top Z's...

>>15526759
Perfect daily driver. That fuel mileage. Nothing wrong with not having a v8 unless you're gonna act like it is one and try racing every one on the street.
Atleast you don't gotta deal with optispark.

>>15526753
Please don't scratch the paint.
Get as much of that dust off with a nice wet pressure wash or hose wash before you touch it with the microfiber sponge :^)

>>15526768
Dis.
Original paint is something to take pride in.

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>>15526701
Those wheels and bumper cover point to it being an 82-84. Rockauto has hood struts for cheap right now so you won't have to bend your hood with that plank of wood.

>>15526722
>quadrajunk
u wot m8

>>15526698
I grabbed that pic off google, mine (>>15526231) has the blue velour-ish interior in pic related (also not my pic)

>>15526753
Definitely use plenty of soapy water, meguiars is a great brand to go with. That's a fuckton of dirt and dust, and black paint is incredibly easy to swirl.

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>>15526767
>optispark

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>>15526760
>>15526768
It would be a sexy vet wouldn't it? Such a nice red. Hope i can color match it to the new panels one day

Also engine bay of mr2

>>15526774
>goes through puddle
>car coughs
>"why have you forsaken me"
>dies for 2 hours

>>15526763
They're unicorns now.

$10k cars.

>>15526777
Looks like all the cars were decently kept.
Props.

>>15526779
lmao

It's so late and this thread is awesome.

>>15526771
When i get the new panels it won't be original though.. or maybe i could find a junk yard with original. Idk

>>15526782
Not tryina deal with the increased chassis flex or slight weight increase with t-tops
Nor do I want TPI, or a 91-92 Z28.
Time to go buy lottery tickets...

Not sure how long threads stay alive in /o/ but. If you guys would like to see more. I'm going to be getting these cars out and moved to my new home I'm renting on Sunday. Going to wash them down and care for them. The care that they deserve.

>>15526790
Agreed. Ls1 can atleast go through a nice ass mini road lake, inhale a good amount of water and not put you on the side of the road. It'll just cry for a little bit, idle all fucky and be a bitch to start back up if you happen to cut it off, but it doesn't puss out like its bitch ass cousin.
>>15526791
It'll still be 50% original tho
50% is better than 0%

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>>15526795
>Lottery tickets

Most I've won is $20.
>mfw

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>>15526811
Most I've won is a free ticket
>mfw

>>15526810
Yeah. Thats true. I hope a good wash and maybe clay or wax brings that cars shine back.

Do you think i could take it to a professional paint correction place? Would they be able to get it mat check ed perfectly?

>>15526803
I'm sure if you start another thread you'll find a lot of people who will be interested and will contribute.
I mean, you got a firebird, a vette, and an MR2, you'll please a lot of people.

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>>15526821
I honestly don't know anon.
It doesn't look bad and could possibly be saved, but that's not my area of expertise so I'm not going to talk about, or give advice on a subject I know nothing about.

>>15526826
Haha yeah. Hits a wide range of people.
I love all of these cars though. I don't want to get rid of any of them

anyone here know the struggle of having a late model thirdgen TBI V6?

Fuck...

That being said, I want back in the game, BAD. But I can't goddamned find a decent third gen without it being beat to shit or way overpriced. It's like people think that an IROC-Z has comparable performance to anything in the last 10 years.

Then again, I would still kill for a legit IROC... that way when faggots come ask me about it I can point smugly at the VIN number and stick my finger up my ass

>>15526826
I will tell you this though, get a new intake, headers and full exhaust on that firebird once you get it running and you'll see a whole world of difference performance wise. Would the RPO sheet happen to be under the center console lid?

>>15526810
LT1's aren't bad engines though.
They're still fantastic.

LS1's just happen to be better.

>>15526803
Yeah dude, any questions start up a thread.
Any knowledge we can pass to you we're glad to help.

>>15526821
Try claying it, then do a 3 step (compound, polish, carnauba wax) either by hand or with a DA (NOT A ROTARY POLISHER IF YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE!) Meguiar's Ultimate line of products is great, I brought back my subaru from the dead with that method.

>>15526841
They didn't start putting SPIDs in them until 84. Sometimes you get lucky and there's a build sheet in the mesh in the seats, but not always.

>>15526838
Or just show them the stock wonderbar.
You can find project examples for under 2g all day, but they'll be rough ones, it's all worth it in the end when you're finished though.
>"oh look it's a turd gen, he probably just put iroc badges on it"
>points to P in fifth digit on vin
>"oh it's an 86, it's probably a sport coupe"
>shows B4Z RPO
>"oh... It's still a turd Gen, my civic would wrek it m8"

As is life.

>>15526844
That low end torque on an LTx is fantastic
Stock on stock, beats the ellis out the hole just about errytime.
Just stay away from the Devils collection of water on the street.

>>15526853
OP check under the passenger seat!
Thanks for the info anon.
What about in the "secret" compartment in the hatch, I've heard the sometimes contained build sheets also?

>>15526856
Well therein lies the problem. I don't fucking want to pay 12k for some faggot's garage kept IROC.

But I'd feel shitty for putting IROC badges on a non IROC car, no matter how superior it gets built compared to a real IROC.

But I see what you mean. Faggots will be faggots. They'll bitch and scoff no matter what.

>>15526869
Later years, yes. I think that was 91 and 92 but I did all this research a long time ago so I might be wrong.

>>15526862
>LTx
>3k rpm
>TOOOOOOORQUEEE

>>15526872
Can't please everyone, but it's your car, you build it for yourself.
Take the time and try finding the funds to build your own man, I'm sure it'll mean a lot more to you and you can take pride in your work.
You can find good deals on even running, decent looking original IROCs, they're just rare, don't give up the search! I've been looking for well over 6 months now to no avail, might just have to settle eventually...

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>>15526882
>LS1
>135mph
>"SHES STILL PULLING WITH ALL SHES GOT"
>168mph
>governor
>mfw

>>15526841
Not sure, back inside and not about to go get the key again and walk to the back of the garage. Lol. 430am. Tired.

>>15526850
Thanks man

>>15526869
Under the passenger seat?

>>15526897
From what I've been told, build sheets were shoved in the mesh under the passenger seat in some cars, like another anon said, your car won't have the RPO sticker anywhere

>>15526897
Not literally under it, but you'll want to remove the seat, flip it over, and look at the bottom, the build sheet might still be there in the mesh. Be super careful removing it since it will be old and brittle.

>>15526885
Well my first and only thirdgen was an 89 TBI V6, I quickly learned how shit it was and grew to love/hate it over the years (loved the body, hated the engine and tranny with a passion)... so I developed an envy of owners who had legit IROCs.

That being said I was told I should try getting another V6 shit model (or even worse, a *gasp* Iron duke model) and take advantage of that low asking price and the fact that the insurance *should* be lower, etc... and built that

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>>15526892
>LS1
>168 MPH
>10 bolt explodes

>>15526904
>>15526906
What's the build sheet for?

>>15526908
Those people should have an iron duke dropped on their skulls.
It's not the same though, if you want a v6 tbi, you buy a v6 tbi sport coupe, if you want a 350 TPI, you buy an L98 350 IROC.
What they're saying makes sense, but it's not what you want.
>>15526911
I've heard nothing but bad things about that 10 bolt, but dude, my friends 02 WS6 (rip) went through 3 torque converters and a 4l60, drove that car harder than I've seen anyone drive an automobile, and the 10 bolt took it all.
He put it into a ditch 3 weeks ago not even a week after putting brand new tires on it. To top it off, he had just filled her up also.
Highest he ever got it was 16x, she kinda stopped climbing so for simplicity I'm gonna say 168.
>>15526918
Tells you what your car was optioned with.
Three letter number/letter combo.
Like, B4Z signified an IROC in 1985 and 1986, g92 was performance rear axle, g80 was limited slip, GU5 was 3.23 etc.

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>>15526918
Reference as the car rolled down the assembly line, and to make sure the right parts matched up with the right car. The build sheet contains everything about the car, all of its specific options, destination, order, etc.

Here's mine. Again, from >>15526231

>>15526936
Oh cool. I'll definitely see if it's there Sunday.

>>15526946
>drools

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>>15526911
Rip blackbird

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>>15526936
I've got a 3400 stall in my 4L60E lel.

>>15526960
f

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>>15526990
Ditch at 50mph+f-body=no Bueno
The entire hood was fucked, engine was pushed back slightly, the master cylinder was bent into the firewall, car started and moved under its own power, had no brakes tho.
He had a 2200 lol. Why so high?
>1/10 would not experience again.

>>15526132

>>15525870

You can make about three hundred with a high compression 305, and it seems about four hundred crank with the blower.

The 355 walked all over the 305 it replaced in every way. Area under the curve and peak power were much higher. The bore of the 305 limits the valve size and shrouds a 2.02 intake valve anyway. Biggest exhaust valve that fits is 1.94 and that limits flow higher up. Boost helps bigtime, and they are already 8.5 compression or at max, 9.1. The pistons will shatter before they melt so keep them cool, E85 or water/meth. I sprayed water with a nitrous plate and solenoids. A lot of fucking around for a combo that a 400 aspirated would kill. Different story as the bore sized increased.

If you want a reliable and fun project then change the cam, intake and exhaust. These can be swapped over to the 350/355/383/400/? you put in later. Don't bother with the heads, been there. If you are committed to upping the power in this thing then go one size up with the intake and camshaft. It will support a Victor Jr but any larger is a no-go, plenum volume is too big. 650 Holley will work with the 305 but sing with a 350 but you won't have to change bodies or metering blocks when you swap them, just jets at this size carb.

Cam wise keep it under 238 @ .50 on both lobes and don't go silly with separation angle. It will probably run like a turd with less than 110 degrees.

Good luck with your project mate.

>>15527006
Thanks man. You're a bucket full of information. Lol

>>15528599

No worries man, I had a lot of fun with this car and combo while I had it. If you get stuck come back and make a post, I'll try and keep my eyes open for it.

Have a good one lad.