HyperCar News

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Links to reports.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a30106/mercedes-amg-r50-hypercar-rumor/

http://gtspirit.com/2016/07/23/mercedes-amg-r50-hypercar-coming-next-year-2-million-price-tag/#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acCppyqqqOU

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Oh boy. Another chance for them to fuck up the front end of a car that could actually look good.

>>15514870
It looks like some form of fancy Batmobile or something.

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>>15514865
>1000 HP 4 cylinder
Bullshit. Unless their goal to rebuild the engine every few hours.

>>15514893
Emissions would be a big Problem too

>>15514865
>500HP/L

I don't think so

Unless they're using a 4G63

>>15514910
And a heady 4 bar of boost.
Either that, or 13,000rpm.

2-3 million would allow you to build one helluva 4 cylinder. Billet internals, three injectors per cylinder, 20v, twin turbos, etc etc. This could be ridiculous considering their success with turbos in F1

>>15514944
It still can't defy physics, regardless of outlay.
It would have to be running an unsustainable amount of induction pressure, or an unsustainable RPM limit.

I'm somewhat skeptical of the rumors.

>>15514966
> a 1000hp 4 cylinder is physics defying
Don't be an idiot. BMW had a race proven 1100hp 4 cylinder engine in the early 80s ffs
30 years of advancement...

>>15514988
1400hp*
also it was a 1.5 litre

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>>15514988
>>15514966
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenhauser
ayeee

>>15514988
>BMW had a race proven 1100hp 4 cylinder engine in the early 80s ffs
You don't say retard, and care to tell us what sort of turbo pressure that thing was running?
The laws of physics as we know them haven't changed with "30 years of advancements"

>>15515041
Do you even know what you're fucking saying?

>>15515063
Well you clearly ignored what I was saying.

>>15515069
Because what you are saying is garbage.
Explain how a 1000hp 4 cylinder "defys the law of physics"

>>15514870
>that rear end
muh dick

>>15515041
>>15515069
physics have not changed since the cave man times either
needless to say we have a finer grasp now all be it at the cost of a broader range of performance condition's

>>15515074
Go back to; >>15514966 you shitlord, and read the first post you replied to further than the first sentence.

>>15514872
>reee the car

>>15515081
And yet the laws of physics were broken by BMW over thirty years ago :^)
Stop trying to be a bench engineer because you are clearly clueless

>>15515088
>/o/
>not bench xing everything
kek

>>15515041

we currently have 1.6L V6s putting out 900hp and that is with all sorts of budget constraints in mind (they're estimated to cost around $200,000 for a pretty bespoke motor)

it doesn't seem otherworldly that AMG can build a 4cylinder that can at least put out 800hp and make it streetable

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>>15515088
>And yet the laws of physics were broken by BMW over thirty years ago :^)
>In a qualifying "grenade"
First of all, shitlord, I never claimed " the laws of physics were broken" in order to achieve such peak outputs. I said, if you remember (which you probably don't) "It would have to be running an unsustainable amount of induction pressure, or an unsustainable RPM limit". Which the very example you have provided proove either or both of these suggestions to be the case.

"While the engine's potential was never in question with Piquet taking nine pole positions in 1984, however the engine's mechanical reliability and durability under full work load suffered severely with regular engine blow ups and turbo failures becoming a common feature."

>>15515106
I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.

>>15514988
That engine had a lifespan of 25000 crankshaft rotations

>>15515120

you're saying that the amount of pressure is too much to put into an engine that small

but let's look at 1000hp 4 bangers that AREN'T built by one of the top two or three authorities on turbo'd engines in the entire world

http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1004325_gm-prods-ecotec-to-1000-hp

this is a drag set-up from GM where they took a stock Ecotec block (except it has been de-stroked to 2.0L) and runs at around 9500 RPM constantly

now this doesn't have any variable turbo technology, just an 8 inch diameter T4 turbo that puts out about 40 lbs of pressure, so it doesn't even need 3 bar.

they do use methane to prevent predetonation, which could be alleviated with better combustion chamber structure, but otherwise it doesn't say it uses nitrous, just a massive turbo

so basically, i could see this happening

>>15515162

also note, that article is from 2002

that was 14 years ago

>>15515162
>you're saying that the amount of pressure is too much to put into an engine that small
"Sustainably", yes.
>so it doesn't even need 3 bar.
It STILL needs almost 3 bar, on top of almost 10,000rpm... All of this from a drag motor.
>constantly
>for no longer than 7 seconds at a time

>>15515177

yes 1000hp from an economy block with a different head and new internals

all with technology from over a decade ago

nowadays we have turbos that can alter the angle of the inlet fans to change boost pressure and metallurgy technology that would be alien to anyone from a decade ago

this shit is very possible, and mercedes is just the first company that wants to ditch the V8/V12 legacy for something more forward-thinking

you think you're being rational but you're just narrow minded

>>15515177
> sustainably
Meaning what exactly?

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>>15514883
>>15515076
;)

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>>15515194

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>>15515201

>>15515193

meaning he's only used to hearing about B16's that can handle 200whp on stock internals

if you throw enough money at a group of engineers they'll figure this sort of stuff out

look up the S2000 from hell, that guy was putting out 700whp on a pretty much stock F20

>>15515183
Oh, I have no problem with the concept. If they manage to pull it off that'd be fantastic, and I'll happily eat the humble pie. I however remain doubtful such figures are achievable out of an engine of such capacity for a road going vehicle.
>>15515193
Have a guess.

>>15515217
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFFudEJnjk

and this was built by a small shop for maybe $15k plus car

you kids nowadays don't realize how awesome cars can really be

http://8w.forix.com/ferrari-indianapolis-1970s.html
>implying head gaskets

>>15515224
Look. I'm not saying such figures aren't possible. There's been a plethora of 4G63s making close to that since the turn of the millennium.
But these engines aren't fit for any measurable longevity in a road car, unless it's been detuned substantially for street purposes.

>>15515239

or not built by some dudes in a garage and instead meticulously engineered by the current leader in motorsports turbocharging

seriously, how dense are you that you can't accept that a massive company can find out a way to extract 1000hp from a small motor for a few million dollars when they've literally been doing just that for the past 4 years

>>15515217
> remain doubtful such figures are achieve able
Except they are and the proof is itt. You have zero reason for why you think so and saying "bbbut physics" is meaningless
Fuck off you retard

>>15515249
>when they've literally been doing just that for the past 4 years
IN
A
LIMITED
USE
RACE
MOTOR
Seriously man, you're not getting what I'm saying, but you're calling others dense.

>>15515264
>except the proof is itt
Are you being intentionally obtuse when you skipped the rest of the quote?
>out of an engine of such capacity for a road going vehicle.

Some retards.

This is a HYPERCAR. No one is complaining about Bugatti's $30,000 tyre changes.

Oh it can only make 1000Hp for 5000kms then it needs a rebuild. And? What's your point?

If you can afford a few million Euros just to by a car, you can afford the (((monies))) it coats to have the rebuild done.

No one complained about 1.5L F1 engines making 1500hp. Or about rally engines that were pushing four digits.

They were doing that back in the 80s. We are 30, nearly 40 years past that. We have an amazing grasp of technology and how to make things work.

Physics has never changed, we have just learned more and gotten smarter.

So yes, I definitely see this 2.0L 1000Hp beast being a REAL possibility. I don't doubt it at all. Especially when its a HYPERCAR that will be one of 50-60 units worldwide.

>>15515266
Friendly reminder 1000hp+ 1.5l 4 cylinders existed over 30 years ago

> bbbut it was a race engine
Lots of advancement in thirty years buddy

> bbbut physics says it's not possible
Just kys

>>15515266

so some guy can build a streetable 700whp s2000 but mercedes cant build something with 300 more in a bespoke design

>>15515291

and i think it's pretty safe to say that the only reason no one has built a 4 banger with streetable 1000hp is because there are easier ways to make the power

but f1 is about to go towards 4 cylinders so mercedes is gonna get a head start

>>15515183
>four cylinder engines
>forward-thinking
Come on now

>>15515041
Care to explain what physical limitation would it be defying?

>>15515330

the only reason f1 didn't go towards four bangers in 2014 is because ferrari pitched a fit about it

but in 2020 they're gonna be all four bangers, just wait

>>15515342
Doubtful. They will end up being solar powered with a Max speed of 10. Cause muh emissions.

>>15515283

F1 engines only made 1000hp during qualifying with massive boost AND running on 84% toluene

>>15515348

just like it was supposed to go to crap now with all the turbo cars but now we have turbo ferraris and turbo mercedes again

When Ford came onto the scene in 1963, the Offy began to lose its domination over Indy car racing, although it remained a competitive winner through the mid-1970s even with the advent of turbocharging. Outputs over 1,000 bhp (750 kW) could be attained, using around 44.3 psi (3.05 bar) of boost pressure. The final 2.65-litre four-cylindar Offy, restricted to 24.6 psi (1.70 bar) boost, produced 770 bhp (570 kW) at 9,000 rpm. The Offy's final victory came at Trenton in 1978, in Gordon Johncock's Wildcat. The last time an Offy-powered car raced was at Pocono in 1982 for the Domino's Pizza Pocono 500, in an Eagle chassis driven by Jim McElreath, although two Vollstedt chassis with Offenhauser engines failed to qualify for the 1983 Indianapolis 500.

>>15514893
Eat muh dick

>1969 – 159 Offenhauser

Bore: 4.030”
Stroke: 3.125”
CID: 159.520
C/R: 8:1
Weight: 360 lbs.
HP: 820 @ 9,500 rpm
??? boost

1972 AAR Eagle
http://www.tsrfcars.com/toys-full_size_eagle_72_029.htm

1100bhp @ 9800rpm
58.9 psi -/- 120 inch of mercury

>1974 DGS -/- 1975 Drake

Bore: 4.281”
Stroke: 2.75”
CID: 158.25 / 2593.25288 cc
C/R: 8:1
Weight: 370 lbs.
HP: 1000 @ 10,000 rpm
just above 3 bar of boost ?

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2016/the_way_it_is_no532.html

>>15514865
who gives a shit?

STOP WITH THE HYBRID MEME

>>15515108
then again, 30 years of advancements
we can possibly produce more reliable 1000hp 4cyls nowadays.

>>15515358
they made up to 1500 hp actually

>>15514944
>three injectors per cylinder
y tho?

>>15515519
same deal as 5 valves per cylinder and twin spark plugs
http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri26.htm

>>15515550
so a complete waste of time just to appeal to spec sheet babbies? okay

>>15515494
one formula one engine claimed 1500hp but there's no actual proof that they made the power.

>>15515478
It's the future brah. Gasoline is doomed.

>>15515580
you don't remember when dohc and four valve per cylinder was a big deal ?
in time 6 valve will be normal or internal combustion engines will die before then
>>15515586
the dyno broke lol

>>15514865
>1000hp 2.0L turbo 4CYL
>two 150hp electric motors
Okay, people are bitching about this is untrue and bullshit but what if it turns out to be so good.

This thing will use boost per gear, so you'll probably only have 300-400 HP in first, up to 1000 in top gear. By the time you're in top gear you'll already be going 150+, so the engine won't be making 1000 HP all that often.

>>15515612
dohc and 4v/cyl has been utilised for 100 years, 6v has never made it past the prototype stage.
learn the difference.

>the dyno broke lol
And cars claiming 850hp in qualifying proved to be faster. Maybe the dyno wasn't working too well in the first place.

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>>15515743
>4v/cyl has been utilised for 100 years
don't tell an American that
>6v has never made it past the prototype stage.
at least there are a few 5 valve types in production
>cars claiming 850hp in qualifying proved to be faster
grip really is faster than drift igr
>Maybe the dyno wasn't working too well in the first place.
it is pretty rare that they do
but power can be inferred by other means

>>15515763
>but power can be inferred by other means
yes but no one can prove it or disprove it either way.
everyone else claimed power in the same ball park except bmw, yet they never had the track performance to back it up.
believe what you want but i don't think those figures are legit.
maybe they made the power once, in a test cell, for a split second, before grenading.
i don't think that can be used as a typical figure in any sense.

>>15515774
>i don't think that can be used as a typical figure in any sense.
for the 1400 hp run they blocked off the waste gate ports could only run one lap before the engine and gearbox were fucked

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>>15514865
>1000hp 2.0L

>>15515478
>way better torque curve
>better power management
>way less losses than AWD
Your point was...?

>>15515282
A Formula 1 engine is rebuilt each 2 or 3 races.

A F1 race lasts 2h max, normally 1:30.

Are you trying to say people would be ok with a car that only runs for 6 hours until it goes back to the dealer?

It was never said this power was impossible.
It was said this power is impossible RELIABLY (Reliable meaning a engine that lasts more than A SINGLE DAY).

>>15516125
F1 engines aren't rebuilt that much anymore.

Yeah, people would be OK with a 6 hours engine. People bought into the FXX program.

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>>15516172
> FXX
is this project going to be street legal or not? pic related is acceptable for trackday cars but not for road cars

>>15516191
It's a race car, always been.

You can leave it with Ferrari so they get it ready wherever you want or keep it on your own garage.

>>15516206
I mean the AMG car

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>>15515108
>shitlord
>image from tumblr

>>15516191
Well, no one said anything about being road legal.
Mercedes could be pulling a Vulcan too.

Also, if fuckers can run way over 1K HP on old messed Supras, why couldn't a world class car maker make a 800 and change hp 4 banger?

>>15515550
>>15514944
>>15515612
The only reason to add injectors per cilinder is to have one in the chamber (direct injection) and one in the port, because either has it's advantages. There is no need to add another, unless you're capping the output of you injectors, and don't want to upgrade to the next size.

5 valve heads are completely overcrowded, and addrotating/reciprocating amss inside the valvetrain - while not adding any valve area whatsoever over a standard 4 valve head. On a 4AGE for example, the 5 valve can't actually rev as high as the 4v in modified versions, because of the added valvetrain mass. Being more crowded, 5 valve heads typically do not support good port shapes/sizes, and do not flow the numbers 4v's do.

Twin spark plugs per cilinders are only useful if you can't get your spark plug centered in the bore for optimal ignition - or if you're igniting 60 PSI worth of air/nitromethanol mixture in a Top Fuel car, using a magnetos strong enough to weld(if they had a continuous output).

>>15514910
Actually, the 4G63 does not have factory outputs that exceed Mercedes' M113 I4T - 381hp vs. 280hp.

>>15514904
>Emmissions
>mattering on a limited (double digit) production car

>>15516213
Why you care about the pic you idiot?

>>15516327
it matters for big manufacturers, but being able to do a test cycle mostly on electric power might solve that problem.

>>15516310
good post but couldn't you tell he was just a spec sheet warrior thinking adding one more of everything would make things better

>>15514944
>>15514865
I highly doubt this to be a 4 cyl. Mercedes has done so much work using the ''Hot V'' with the GT, and they obivously want a connection to their F1 program - I think it'll be a 1.6 to 2.0L, Hot V, V6, with a hybridised turbo system. The latter would be the first for a road car if I'm not mistaken.

>>15516345
Of course I could tell, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to talk sense into him, and informing other people at the same time.

Emmissions doesn't matter on small production vehicles. Do you think Ferrari gives a damn about emmissions on the LaF? Hell no. You add 50K to the asking price, donate half that to the EPA, done.

>>15516367
ottoh they could also be wanting to remove the stigma from 4 bangers so they can put these shitty lawnmower engines in future s-classes etc without alienating people too much

>>15516375
ferrari and other low volume manufacturers get all sorts of concessions on emissions (at least under the eu regime)
i don't think they would apply to mb as they have far more resources to hand to do the job properly.

>>15515282
Daily reminder that rednecks can boost a stock bottom end 4.8L pushrod POS - and make 1200hp. Engines nowadays are incredibly potent, and are absolutely held the fuck back for F1 - because people don't like huge flaming fireball crashes anymore. Wusses.

Now imagine an actual engineering company doing the same.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1109-stock-gm-ls-engine-big-bang-theory/

>>15515311
>there are easier ways to make the power
Using a hybrid turbo and electric motors, you don't have to worry about ''streetability''. You can have a shoddy torque band filled up with boost and hybrid torqs.

>>15515416
>>15515450
Speaking of Indy engines - Mercedes is good at them too.

http://www.spannerhead.com/2012/12/26/interesting-engines-the-mercedes-ilmor-500i/

>pushrod 2v
>over 1000hp
>built in 6 months
>dominated everything
>didn't blow up
>22 years ago

Why would they use some stupid engine and not just put their F1 engine? Just altered enough for reliability and so other teams can't copy it, and boom 900 hp and hybrid.

>>15516398
They'll put those in no matter what.

They would apply so a small production volume car built by MB.

>>15516125
And that was thirty years ago
You're delusional if you think a modern 1000hp 4 cylinder made by one if the best best engine makers in the world will only last a day
Kys

>AMG making a 1000hp 4cyl
They cannot understand anything less then 4 liters.

>>15516443

because 15k rpm isn't very usable

and those motors aren't as good as an engine can be because they don't want teams spending too much on them

>>15517291

which is why they have won all but one race this year with a 1.6L

>>15514870
the ass on that thing makes feel naughty to look at....

>>15516443
why not just apply the knowledge acquired to a different engine?

>>15516125
F1 teams are limited to 6 rebuilds per season, faggot.

>>15515162
What type of fuel do you think those engines are using, how toxic do you think it is, how rare do you think it is for a road user

How long do you think these engines last, I'll give you a hint the crazy race 4bangers that ran at 1000hp had a lifespan measured in minutes at peak load, they would last for about 2 laps then their goose was cooked

How do you think these engines are started, do you think the driver just walks into the car and presses a button? No they have to be fed warmed up oil, babied, they're extremely temperamental.

I mean first things first, there's no production car even REMOTELY near these specs - the logical conclusion should be obvious from that

>>15515201
Those rims look straight out of AutoZone.