Is BMW the brand that has fallen the most? Pretty much their

They "fell" in 2010/11 when they were seriously being competed with by a Ford Mustang not only in 0-60, but with lap times as well by a car almost half the price. Even now the M2 is getting beat in every way by the admittedly expensive GT350R. True car enthusiasts are waking up and looking past the brand name and buying contenders and out performers for less. That is the downfall of the brand. They rode out the name without innovating much in the last 6 years and have been jumped on. In 2005 the M3 was the coolest car to own at the time for my age. Now it's gone stale. I'd take a S550 mustang and put the money into mods rather than buy anything BMW offers.

Before you call me a Ford shill, I've owned an 03 M3, a 530i and a 550.

>>15280778
In addition to that, I think the other part of their brand value proposition was that they were "sports luxury". These days, their interiors are just a notch above Ford and not even close to Mercedes, Lexus, or even Audis new interiors. I was very disappointed when I sat in the current M3 and M4.

>>15280718
Honda and Toyota are pretty bad. All they really make are normie cars these days.

>>15280817
And even their normie cars have been seriously cucked. Take a look at the CR-V...

>>15280778
>360hp M2 vs 512hp mustang
whew what a comparison
Anyway I'm pretty sure German cars have never had the best price/performance when compared to domestic. It's a much different story accross the pond

>>15280907
Oh great it's this fuccboi. Nigga BMW is shit now. Their glory days are gone.

>>15280910
Yet the M2 is still the best car in its class, same with the M3, X5M/X6M, M6 and more.
Expensive - sure but you get what you pay for.

>>15280962

What class? Overpriced German smallish coupe class? All of those cars are in retarded """"classes"""" so it's easy to say "Muh best in class". They are overpriced, overhyped shit. Increase the sample size and you'll see they aren't what they used to be. The fucking M5 is almost 100,000 dollars for fuck sake. The brand still riding off its name.

>>15280991
Audi RS7/RS6 and the Mercedes E63 AMG cost more, yet the M5 performs better than both of them.
Sure for 100k you can get a corvette or something but that is not the point

>"Sheer Driving Pleasure" (Worldwide)
>"The Ultimate Driving Machine" (United States, United Kingdom)
>"The Ultimate Driving Experience" (Canada)
>"Freude am Fahren" (Germany)
I think BMW are doing alright

If only BMW even made the M2 with a properly fucking aligned driver seat.

>>15280907
>BMW charge $53k for a 360hp car
>Ford charge $55k for a 512hp car
>GUYS IT'S NOT A FAIR COMPARISON
Get fucked bimmercunt.

>>15280817
Toyota interiors are insanely cheap and bland looking. Nissan interiors are a little upgrade but vomit inducing.

>itt: I HATE BMW THEY'RE ALL SHIT LE SUPREME GENTLEMAN OVERPRICED MY MIATA IS BETTER
>NO IT'S NOT BMW MAKES THE BEST RACING SUVS ON THE MARKET

/o/ why the hell are you so predictable these days?

>>15281009
Uh the M2 has luxury unlike the Mustang.

>>15281014
>ctrl+f miata
>0 results outside of your post
Hrmm...

>>15280778
Have M cars ever been about track times though? I thought they were always just about being really nice cars to drive for enthusiasts.

>modern BMW
LMAO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMUV2u4Bp0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3p20D5yH8

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>>15280718
No BMW has not fallen. Have you tried driving the very car in your image? Its amazing. The new cars look great except for maybe the X6. It is not overpriced considering they have 30k models now and their sedan directly competes with Mercedes, not the accord or Camry you seem to be comparing it to.

They also still offer manuals, which is a huge plus in my book

>>15281018
>fake leather
>scratchy plastic everywhere
>muh soft touch
Natural that a bimmercunt has no real concept of "luxury"

>>15281008
explain

>>15281023
they indeed have always focused purely focused on driving fun while being a luxurious daily driver.
>>15281009
A Ford is domestic, so it's naturally cheaper. Not to mention the cheap build quality and cheap building costs.
The M2 is still a luxury car that can be comfortably daily driven, the Shelby is a track car

>>15281063
Due to cost cutting measures and engineering laziness, the M2's driver seat is adjusted to pass side crash safety testing. Instead of pointing straight ahead at the wheel/direction of the road, you are literally facing the left headlight and are tilted diagonally in the seat compared to the entire rest of the car. What the fuck

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>>15281009
its sad when the 360hp car is faster

How are turbocharged inline 6s now making over 400 horsepower from the factory a bad thing?

>overpriced
like always
>bloated
like all manufacturers now.

I've got an older 135i. I dig it, it still comes with a 6 speed manual but has a modern twin turbo inline 6. The car was cheap. The other alternative car I wanted was an old termi but those things are 5 years older, shitty interior and cost about 5 grand more than what I paid for my BMW

>>15281076
The car MT tested was a pre production euro spec vehicle, literally no other reviewers have ever found the issue
And if anything, Chris Harris loves the seating position in the M235i/M2, lol

>>15281137
Ty for the info, saw other reviews but just assumed they failed to mention it. If it's not the case in US production models, then it's for sure the best current BMW product and I will reconsider it as my dream attainable driver.

>>15281149
Honestly literally no BMW car I can recall has had a completely "straight"
seating position, the steering wheel or the pedals have always looked like they're "offset", so maybe they were on to something.
But the fact that BMW seating positions are usually perfect for the driver, remains

BMWs glory days ended after the E46.

>>15281182
Thats no gut feeling, the always were a bit crooked and offset.

>>15280718
>Is BMW the brand that has fallen the most?

no, sales are good and the company is turning a decent profit, it hasn't "fallen" at all.

>>15281102
its a dual scroll single turbo you fucking faggot. your 135 is not twin turbo'd

>>15280998
Yeah but that RS7 is fucking beautiful man
I'd give up some performance for looks.
Especially when I live in Ameriland where I'll maybe get one of those cars to 130 on the open freeway before geting pulled over and shot on live news

ITT bunch of faggots assmad about cars they cant afford

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>>15280962
>>15280998
You seem to know what you're talking about so I'll ask you, have you ever sat in an M6? Or could you give me an opinion on whether or not the newest gen is worth buying? Heard anything about the B7?

I'm in the market for a new car in the $100-150k range. I need 4 seats but not necessarily 4 doors if the back seats are usable. It has to be fast (sub 5 second 0-60) but also comfortable as I do a lot of long distance driving for my work. Other cars I'm considering are an S-class coupe AMG (upper end of budget, would like to spend less), Range Rover SVR (don't really need an SUV but it looks and sounds incredible), and a V8 Aston. Convertible is a huge plus but not a deal breaker. Any other cars I should look in to?

Pic related is my current car. Great fun but I can't live with just 2 seats and such poor trunk space as I have a dog and a girlfriend.

>>15281039
Lol

>>15281049
>stripped to ground shit base model
>can buy a Q50 fully loaded
Why BMW buyers so blind about their brand

>>15281305
worst bait of thread. Q50? have fun with your computer-fucked traction/nanny controls and imperfect drive-by-wire.

>>15280718
the z4 is fucking amazing

>>15280718
They are nice cars but they're not as fast as they are perceived to be. I have a 2015 mustang gt with a full exhaust, tune and intake and I pulled 3 car lengths on a 2013 M3 with the competition package on the highway. The M3 is 30K more ffs.

>>15281305
>comparing infinishit to BMW
top lel

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>>15281092

>>15280718
Honda, same story but way worse interiors. BMW was at least good until the F30, Honda went to shit around the mid 2000s

>>15281277
wtf is pic related

Nope:

Honda
Mitsubishi

People like to harp on about price/performance forgetting you're not buying a BMW for that reason. You're buying it for the overall package. World-class handling, practicality, luxury, with decent straight line speed.

When every M3 was out there was ALWAYS some Jap/American car that was cheaper AND faster at the same time. The bigger problem with BMWs is that to compete with Mercedes and Lexus they've abandoned building sports cars for building isolated luxury cars then gone full retard with tech and lightweight materials to make up for the added weight making them even further from their original purpose.

1980s = E30 M3 = RX7 Turbo II and C4 L98 6spd

1990s = E36 M3 = LT1 Z28 and MR2 Turbo (admittedly the E36 was a special one-off car in a time "cheap sports cars" were getting rarer in the USA)

Early-Mid 2000s = E46 M3 = SRT4 ACR (there's actually a magazine comparing both, the Neon did fucking great), Evo 8/WRX STi, and 03-04 Mustang Cobra/C5 Corvette.

Late 2000s-Early 2010s= E90 M3 = Mustang GT Performance Pack/Camaro ZR1

>>15281921
how mad are you when my Infiniti sedan can fly by your shit base model BMW

>>15281975
Correction, what I meant to say was back in the 1990s the E36 M3 WAS the cheap speed car ($35-40k USD when your average Supra/300ZX/3000GT Twin Turbo cost $50-70k, and had better handling with slightly lower straight line speed)

>>15280718
>Has anyone else blundered more?
Lancia and Mitsubishi

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>>15281092
>guys, I want to spend 15-20K more on a weaker, shittier sounding car with fake luxury and a "couldn't actually afford an m4" stigma, just to brag about beating a 2 ton American pony car by half a second

>>15280778
you'd be surprised, to the kind of people in the market for these cars new, marketing is way more influential than how a car actually drives

they hear bmw is sporty and believe it. they won't even consider something like a cadillac which is much sportier by now, BRANDS AND MARKETING RULE EVERYTHING

to that end, they can short change their R&D and dump that money into marketing instead and actually grow faster

>>15281259
Depending on the year, yes it is twin.

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I'm just sad that the only interesting nip cars atm are like the 86, wrx/sti, 370z, gtr and MAYBE the mx5 (excluding lexus cause muh luxobarge)
rip the times when every manufacturer had like atleast 3 performance models or atleast not boring appliance cars

>>15281068
>cheap build quality
have you even seen the inside of a s550 premium? It's literally on par with BMW if not even better

>>15281259
yes it is...

BMW is the brand poorfags and nocars seem to talk about the most.

At least BMW had somewhere to fall unlike the majority of shit owned here.

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>>15280718
>Has anyone else blundered more?

Yep

>>15282063
are you retarded. those are the only performance cars you could think of? every manufacture has at least one performance model.

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>>15282368

>>15282393
>pretty much every LMP2 car has a nissan engine
>LMP2 cars are faster than GT cars

No shit. How much of a fanboi can one be?

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>>15282407
>b-but muh pushrods are lighter than DOHC
>b-but muh torque

why is nobody using an LS engine in LMP2?

>>15282429
I'm not a GM fanboy senpai

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>>15282436
well you are either a nissan fanboy or a gm fanboy, pick a side

>>15282444
what if I dislike both?

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>>15282451
look nigger, pick a side and fuck off

my fav brand is neither nissan nor gm but i still had to pick a side

thats how /o/ works

>>15280806

> audi interiors

lel

>>15282023
People that don't know cars think of them as follows:

>Super rich tier
Italian Stallions (Ferrari, Bugatti, etc)
>Rich tier
BMW
Audi
Jaguar
Mercedes Benz
Cadillac
"Sports cars" meaning anything that exposes the occupants to the elements
>Poor tier
Anything 80s -> 15 years before the current year
>Retro tier
80s and below
>Old man tier
Lincoln
Chrysler
>Normal tier
Ford
GM
Honda
Toyota
>Oddball tier
Saab
Volvo
Subaru
>Street racer tier
Anything with a spoiler or post-factory rice/body kit
American muscle

>>15281061
Real leather
Interior dripping with real carbon fiber
High quality design fit and finish

You want to see fake leather take a look at your shit mustang snd vinyl wrapped dashboard u delusional shit. You know how i know youve never even seen an m2 or mustang in real life?

>>15281076
Thats a lie and u know it. Stop being so stupid.

>>15281182
>>15281149
This. The seat is straight but the wheels and pedals are offset. Literally every BMW i have ever owned besides the X5 was this way. Its a non issue and you dont even notice. I have no idea why but i assume there is a reason

>>15282489
we oddball tier now
Although Subaru has become much more normal in the last 5-10 years imo.

>>15282021
The BMW costs 50k
The Camaro is 46k
Get fucked

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>>15282703
>$4k to brag to the dude at the Maccas drive-thru about lap times
Benchracers, everyone.

>>15281102
I have an irrational dislike for turbos. I like anything N/A. Just sounds better.

>>15281243
we meant in quality of cars, not sales. BMW launching FWD cars (2AT, future 1 series and X1) and putting turbos on every engine (while 20 years ago they put out marketing promising to never ever turbo an engine)...

>>15281936
Mazda, since regaining their independence, has become the new Honda.

>>15282551
Subaru has basically become Volvo, now if only their marketing were to improve...

>>15282840
>Mazda, since regaining their independence, has become the new Honda.
I would agree entirely, they make relatively fun econoboxes with good interiors.

>>15280718
BMWs are just like women on 4chan. Everybody pretends to hate them because they can't have them.

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>>15281137
Chris Harris also likes it up the ass.

>>15281137
In the history of the company has BMW ever made a single mistake?

>>15282489
You're the one with the warped view, not "people".

4chan Car Tiers
>Total shit but drive-able
My car
>god tier
car I want
>absolute normie faggot shit only cucks and fuccs will buy
everything else

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>>15282865
>leased automatic 318i
>"muh ultimate driver masheen"

Would rather get my hands on a manual 328i coupe and boost the everliving shit out of it.

>>15282879
no

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>>15282879

>>15282879
Yes, they have become bloated cars for normies just like every marque. We get it, you're a californian, we won't blame you for being queer and unable to afford one.

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>>15282882
E36*

>>15280991
I'm a pre-2006 BMW fanboy and I agree with this guy.

The cars have gotten stale. AMG blows M's out of the pond, both in performance and interior quality. BMW's have STI syndrome, they keep getting heavier and angrier, without getting much faster. BMW has started pandering to the same people that buy Lexus. Boring car that's "nice" in the words of normies, good enough to get idiots to waste their money, not good enough to live up to the standard that the E39 and E46 set.

You can literally buy a 2003 M5 for a fraction of the cost of a new one and it will be a better car. 300 horsepower stock, great interior, timeless body, great handling, and you won't drive a car that looks like every other modern piece of shit on the road. Same goes for M3's. It's a travesty that BMW has allowed far cheaper brands to catch up to them this much. I don't like mustangs very much, but the facts are there. It's hard to justify buying BMW for the feel and quality when it's just not there anymore, not like it used to be. As it stands, BMW's should be priced far cheaper.

Fucking BMW, they ruined BMW.

>>15281009
>you only pay for the engine

>>15282910
i find it funny how the biggest modern bmw detractors are huge bmw fans....just of their old stuff

bmw deserves all the hate they get right now by the way, fuck them
it's like they took all the engineers that know how to make a fun car and stuck them on the 2 series project, now it's the best thing to drive in their entire lineup hands down

>>15282882
>leased automatic 318i
>"muh ultimate driver masheen"
That wasn't my argument at all. Keep playing strawman though, if it helps you feel intelligent.

>>15282910
you're retarded if you think an e39 is a better car than the f10
amgs also cost a lot more.
and it's not wrong that a 50k mustang can keep up with a 50k m2.

it's not 1990 anymore, the car as we know it has basically been maxed out in all aspects.

>>15282489
Bugatti is French gay boi

>>15282910
>AMG blows Ms out of the water
Maybe the $600k SLS AMG Black Series
otherwise bullshit
M5 F10>E63
M3>C63
M6>CLS63
X6M>GLE63
M2>CLA45
etc.

>>15282952
>it's not 1990 anymore, the car as we know it has basically been maxed out in all aspects.
People like him can't accept that and are stuck with auto nostalgia. After the mid 2000s things stagnated and they will stay that way until we go electric. He's a modern day boomer

>>15282983
M3<C63s AMG

>>15283009
the C63 weighs fuckin 3770 lbs
that's almost the weight of an M5 lmao

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>>15283009
>land barge autotragic>manual M3
No.
People like you are the reason cars suck now a days.

>>15281952
jaguar f type r (sex machine)

>>15282703
bmw tested was 65k.

>>15284001
none of those were performance enhancing options

>>15281377
>>15281921
What should I know about Infiniti that makes them bad/good?

>>15281928
BMW cucks BTFO

>>15282983
Literally based off nothing.

C63S>M3
Because of an actual twin turbo V-8 performance and SOUND. Compared to looped speaker audio.

Forget to mention GTS>any performance coupe BMW made ever?

>>15284467
Bad
>recently switched to drive-by-wire steering
>completely fucks any hooning in their RWD "sports" cars
>some of the worst Jap reliability

Good
>competetively priced
>older stuff is Nissan wrapped in leather (Z=G), G35 was spiritual succesor to Skyline
>some racing heritage

>>15284581
Thanks senpai

>>15282489
Guess I'm Rich and Old Man tier.

Actually, my 750iL is 15 years old (2001 750iL) so that makes me poor tier too.

2010 535xiT (Monaco Blue / Sand Beige) - Stage 1 COBB tune
2011 Lincoln MKS EcoBoost (Merlot Metallic / Sienna) - Livernois stage 3 package
2001 BMW 750iL (Night Blue Metallic / Chestnut Dark) -Work in progress, completely teardown and rebuild. Car was originally silver on black, so not a true individual car.

>>15280718
FUCK BMW!
BMW OWNERS LIKE DICK IN THE ASS AN IN AND AROUND THIER MOUTH LOOOOL

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I own an e92 M3. That being said, I would never buy a new BMW. My friend works at a BMW dealership - he offered I could test drive anything I want. M6 competition package? Fat and shitty handling. Still feels underpowered. M4? Interior blows, driving dynamics feel disconnected and stale. Interiors? 0 innovation. They were about the same in e46. BMW needs to stop mass producing boring bullshit cars with cheap materials and charging insane amounts. They are becoming irrelevant.

>>15282489
>Saab
>Oddball
Well they are sleepers in a comfy seat and god tier dash.
160-162MPH ain't bad for a heavy FWD.

>>15285316
Found the bus rider...

>>15285337
2006 92 Aero - WRX wagon in hiding.

>>15285347
2003 9-5 Aero here.

>>15280817
Idk accord and civic coupes of the new gen are an improvement compared to 9/8th gens though id rather they stay under 3500lb and under 71in in width. 8th gen civics are modern corolla levels of souless.

>>15281277
Man, for this kind of budget you have a variety of cars to choose from, like Porsche Panamera Turbo, even the S shouls be pretty much in your budget range, you can get CLS AMG if you don't want to spend much, I agree the Panamera doesn't look good, but it is hella fast, also Jaguar has the XJR, man the choice is really there.

>>15281277
>Heard anything about the B7?
Alpina's are BMW's that are taken off the line and tuned by Alpina. Engines, transmissions, electronics, interior, suspension. But it still has an Alpina VIN.

That said. I'm not familiar with the new B7's, but the 2005? - 2008 had a potential for eating SC bearings. IIRC, there was something about the specific bearing setup.

Though, in hindsight, if you're buying new, just get the 2 year warranty extension and give zero fucks.

> Convertible
SL65 AMG.

>>15285347
Not really a SAAB and you know it.
It's like a small hatchback version of a WRX.
So it should be lighter than the regular WRX so more HP/lbs right?

>>15285396
No, it actually is a WRX wagon. The interior and badging has been changed.

Parts directly swap over.

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>>15285398
I wouldn't call that a wagon, with that size.

What a shame that I'll never own a new gen 9-5 wagon.

>>15280817
>muh normies
"Normies" actually have their own income and don't care about your autistic shit like NA RWD 50/50 weight ration god machine. Normies also make up a huge share of drivers on the road so do your math.

>>15285422
Normies also turn their cars to mechanics and don't waste time "tinkering" and "taking care" of the car since they leave it to people that are educated to do so.
Kinda like kids that think they help by taking baby animals home.

>>15285436
>Normies also turn their cars to mechanics and don't waste time "tinkering" and "taking care" of the car since they leave it to people that are educated to do so.
Well of course, no one wants to mess with something they don't understand so they take it the mechanic. Not everyone has lots of spare times, you'll understand once you get a job and your own family.

>>15285440
I think you miss understood me.
I'm not defending the boy racer people, but the normies that have more important things to think of than to make his car work for the day.

BMW is much more desirable now that Audi is the car of choice for pricks.

>>15285458
Also this.
It's one of the three.
Audi, Merc or BMW, the best is the one that the sand niggers don't like this time around.

>>15281277
Stop being selfish and have some kids.

>>15282865
>>15282865
>>15282865

>>15281305
They offered it because of yuropoors like you who cant afford higher engine displacements. If there is a profit to be made, a car company will do it.

Look at Porsche's Cayenne
Look at Mercedes AMG trucks

>>15285323
People say the same thing about the E92. Its just boomers who hate everything new and want it back to the "old" days where getting in a 25mph accident is deadly

>>15280718
yes

>>15287307
yup

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>>15284554
>Based off nothing
>Mercedes is better because V8 sounds better!!
KEK
Also the M4 GTS is faster than the much more expensive AMG GT-S lmao
Look at any head to head tests, mercs tend to be quicker at straight lines because of the power advantage but BMWs are ALWAYS faster on track
>inb4 benchracer

>>15287323
How many bimmer owners have actually ever set foot on a track though?

>>15287731
Bimmers are the most popular track cars as a brand on the planet.
Affordable and available worldwide, light weight, tons of aftermarket, easy maintenance etc. BMWs and Porsches are the top 2 track cars in Europe. It's the opposite with mercs though.

>>15287323
>benchracing

c'mon davis

don't

>>15280718
I like my m6 grancoupe

>>15288179
>light weight

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>>15289098
I love my 535i, it's the best sedan I've owned.

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>>15287307
>Its just boomers who hate everything new and want it back to the "old" days where getting in a 25mph accident is deadly

>>15289132
Apparently only boomers want good steering feel/feedback and a car that's so isolated you have to do 100mph+ to feel anything

It's like they don't get the biggest critics of modern BMWs are BMW fanboys themselves. The closest new car to my E36 would be a FRS/BRZ for example.

>>15281277
I have an m6 gran coupe loaded, things an absolute beast fast as hell, loads of potential, and while it has a relatively small size the interior is very spacious

>>15281305
>base model
>M6
literally impossible

BMW didn't lose me because of performance or price. BMW lost me when I realized that you need more preparation to transplant a lung than to replace the battery in an E93.
BMW used to be an experience. Now it's an appliance manufacturer.

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>>15280718
>Is BMW the brand that has fallen the most?

No, this is.

At least Cadillac has improved since the early 2000s, Lincoln fell pretty damn hard after their Town Car ended production in 2011, and they were declining for a long while beforehand.

>>15281305
Q50 is what happens when a good name/car turns into a shit name/car that is basically a smartphone consumer appliance on wheels.

>>15289397
That's because Lincoln was intended to wither away in favor of the Premier Auto Group (PAG) so there was no product development to speak of. When that plan crashed and burned with the 2008 recession it was an all-hands evolution to save the mother ship first and we're only just now starting to see a resurgence of Lincoln product.

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>>15280907
>It's a much different story accross the pond
Not really.

>>15288179

>lightweight

I just hope the idiots in Munich don't fuck up and make an extremely limited number of M2s'. As it stands now the wait list of 2-3 years deep at most dealerships here in Texas and I'd really love to have a shot at one. The M4 is way outside my price range currently.

>>15282489
Where's vw at tho. Do we get our own tier? Can it be `insanly gay fanbase` tier

>>15281137

Truth I sat in one at my local BMW dealership and the seat is very much aligned with the steering wheel. I can't begin to tell you the sheer giddiness I felt while sitting in the car. It's gorgeous and it's an attainable M car for me. I'll be very disappointed if the rumors are true and this is a limited production run. I don't think the exec in Munich realize what they have with this car a competitor to the Camaro, and Mustang.

Datsun/Nissan

>>15282935

That's what everyone's saying about the M2 right now. It's the car that everyone has been waiting for BMW to produce.

>>15285323
bmw literally can't hear you over all this money they're making
once their sales start to go down they'll change their ways

>>15280718
>implying BMW ever had anywhere to fall to

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Owned an M4 for a year. Fast, luxurious (i actually loved the merino leather but I'm not sure about its durability) but definitely not a driver's car.

Its just a super automated car with muted intake/exhaust sound that isn't fixable. It sounds shit, desu.

>pic related; i thought she was beautiful but it let me down in the driving experience department
>also LED headlights on it are amazing

>>15291493

Yeah you need to trade that thing in for the M2 man.

I drive a 435 m-performance edition great car.. and there is not a hard body in the valley that would prefer me driving a fucking shit tier ford skidstang or fuckin brush ape white sunglasses camaro..

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>>15291676

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>>15291676

>>15281277
Get a Panamera

>>15282910

Around here it is all the beaners and central americans who still buy BMW. They're pretty much the same beaners who buy the 2002 G37's and a new 2016 silverado then lowers it all the way down to the ground.

Everyone else buys lexus, mercedes-benz, ford, chevrolet, audi, volvo, etc...

>>15280718
>Is BMW the brand that has fallen the most?

China makes parts for BMW due to cooperative ventures. For the chinese market, BMW trains chinese workers in a chinese partner company at the factory they share in china to produce BMW cars for the chinese market. The also make BMW branded replacement parts.

So you might buy parts in the USA but they were made in china and not Bavaria.

>>15287301
>Look at Porsche's Cayenne
The Cayenne is actually a pretty great luxury SUV though. It's comfy and it outperforms 95% of cars both on AND off road.

I don't get the hate for the non sports car Porsches. They're all good cars even if they aren't the 911.

>>15291985

i'm pretty sure every car brand from Toyota to Ferrari to fucking Bugatti has a little bit of China in them.

>>15289538

The fuck. How is the mustang lower in price there and the BMW lower in price in the US?

>>15292134
>The fuck. How is the mustang lower in price there and the BMW lower in price in the US?
It's not.
That's a Mustang GT in his pic. The one that's faster than the M2 is the GT350 which costs about $50k.

I want to buy a 2006 130i for about 15k euro.

Good idea or not?

>>15280778
BMW was always about luxury performance.
Mustang is power for plebs. It's cheaper because it's less sophisticated.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it makes no sense to compare cars on power alone.

>>15280718
The fall happened when assholes like the ones in the video started buying BMWs. People noticed that wanna be hard muslims started buying them and the brand value went down.

https://youtu.be/f5rKjJR7O9k

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>>15292510
>BOS5IN

>>15292510
This, so much this. I wanted a £13k BMW M6 V10 but then I realised that people like this owned them.

>>15292510
These are the types of people that own BMWs, this is why the brand is losing value. I agree with this 100%

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>>15292123
>i'm pretty sure every car brand from Toyota to Ferrari to fucking Bugatti has a little bit of China in them.

That may be true. I've seen some pretty cluttered cars when looking at them from my high up truck seat.

>>15292510
This is actually London? Or should I say Londonistan.

Oh how London has fallen!

>>15292510
God even the white people bystanders are fucking tards.

>>15292564
Did you just steal that from the youtube comments?

>>15292571
>>15292510

No, it's my original post. Why do you ask?

Also, it's really a shame whats happened to London.

>>15292510
Well this video says it all. BMW is doomed.

>>15292589
No lol. London is doomed. It's not a car's fault. Autists.

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I've had countless older models like the E36 or E46 that were brilliant cars, but the E90 I bought had a rod bearing failure after 4 years.

BMW died around 2004.

>>15292510
>>15292534
>>15292551
>>15292564
pls go back to your containment board /pol/

>>15292571
>Did you just steal that from the youtube comments?
There was a major theatrical movie "London Has Fallen" which presents some similar concerns.

>>15280718
Why is it always the poorfags with their shit American and Japan econoboxes that keep repeating this blatant lie?

>>15292277
I remember them being more about better handling
but they do nothing that jaguar or Mercedes has not already

>>15292697
thanks to increase in electronics, all new cars feel more numb.
but BMW is still more of a driver's car than competitors. chassis balance, manual transmission options, rev-happy engines..

>>15292697
>turbo inline 6
>manual
yeah, merc and jaguar doesnt do such cars

>>15293579
not any more

>>15289275
How's the sound? Handling? Does it feel like the huge car it is? Do you like the twin turbo setup or would you prefer a NA engine?

>>15291737
Kek I'm not a trophy wife. If I buy a Porsche it'll be a 911 S cabrio tbqh. Or a Macan turbo and mod the fuck out of it to make the ultimate hooning machine.

>>15292916
>>15293579
F-types come in manual and have gotten near universal acclaim for being driver's cars. Rest of Jag's offerings are pretty irrelevant though.

>>15282910
>self-claimed BMW fanboy
>thinks the E39 M5 is 300 horsepower

>>15292510
You've been enriched!

>>15293633
>F-type
mechanical supercharger? in 2016?

>>15293607
yes, they still produce turbo inline six manual vehicles.
Oh and with a 50:50 weight distribution
>>15293633
true, I read that the jag automatics are better than manuals though

>>15293633
From what I hear the XE is better than a 3 series in ever way while getting better fuel economy

>>15281023
>really nice cars to drive for enthusiast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87tO7VUs2I

>>15293683
according to TG the 3 series has the "fewest weaknesses" compared to the jag or merc c class.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/review/diesel-triple-test-jaguar-xe-vs-mercedes-c-class-vs-bmw-3-series#15

>>15293716
the DSG equipped M4 destroys both the manual M4 and camaro on track

>>15293783
>DSG
i mean DCT

>>15293650
I'm an idiot, can you explain why this matters?

>>15293683
Might be fair, I only have experience with the F-type really. All I know is that when I'm car shopping the other Jag offerings really don't appeal to me at this point. The F-type is a great rambunctious dramatic thing...I realize the other cars aren't going for that but they just feel a little stale to me. I'd rather just spring for an M6 or some AMG if I want comfort and power. This is entirely subjective of course but I feel that Jag's other cars are lacking in character, which is what British cars should have loads of in my opinion. After all they have to make up for their shortcomings in engineering compared to their German counterparts somehow.

>>15294085
>I'm an idiot, can you explain why this matters?
Mechanical supercharger versus turbo? For the thrill of driving, immediate feedback of the car firmly and strongly accelerating adds to the psychological impact. Even a 0.1 second delay is a perceivable difference.

making mostly fallen cars

BMW
Nissan
Mitsubishi
Honda
Lancia
Dacia
Acura
VW
Toyota (with exception of land cruiser, 4runner, and GT86)
FCA for the most part, especially chrysler

Doing good

Subaru
Ford
Mazda

Also, Subaru is doing everything right. They are doing the best out of any automaker.
Why?

>sales are increasing a ton
>make the best compact SUV (forester)
>best AWD systems
>best Wagon - outback
>Best all around car (WRX/WRX STI- can do anything, great in all conditions, fast, handles great, stick shift, 4 doors, practical af, its the ultimate redpill car)
best future shitbox sedans (impreza, legacy)
most underrated sportscar that is fucking awesome (brz)

literally every subaru car is perfect, they dont have any shitty cars in the lineup, they all use only 2 platforms - impreza based (forester, impreza, WRX, WRX STI, XV crosstrek) and legacy based (legacy, outback) and they have great engines too, boxer engines are redpilled because they mount better into the powertrain and are more balanced and smooth

The only complaint is the difficulty of adding power to the BRZ because engine is not exactly that powerful

but its tolerable because the low CG is worth it

and it looks cool

>>15289397
It's sad but very unlikely they'll ever top the Towcar, ultimate peak for that kind of car and super reliable too.

If they can make anything that isn't just a really expensive trim level for a Ford vehicle they might survive...but likely it'll be overly modern, not a real Town car replacement.

>>15295163
I would say most Subarus are actually awful compared to similar cars from other makers, however they've managed to market themselves brilliantly and are now an "image" brand more than BMW ever was

Most of them are underpowered, reliability is questionable at best (especially with head gaskets), and AWD is a gimmick with the tires they put on them.

>>15295163

The BRZ is pathetic for a sports coupe. They really need to produce a factory turbo model and increase the HP and torque. Word is both they and Toyota didn't do it because of the additional costs associated with passing safety regulations. So they just decided to leave it all up to the buyer.

>>15292510
>London
>hardly any white people there

>>15280778
Ya. American cars began showing BMW owners that it's not hard to create "the ultimate driving machine". It made them realize that their dinky inline 6s were in fact shit and that there are better ways of going fast.

And fuck your "more refined" meme when BMW bases their ride and handling on a sports car.

BMW is going to hell. Ford is going to heaven.

>>15295565

I've driven my old bosses M4 a few times and I found it to be a fun car even with the DCT. Don't get me wrong it's super overpriced with the only reasonable BMW right now being the M2 which is most likely going to be produced in limited numbers. It seems like BMW loves to do this every few years and produce a budget sports car much like the 1M coupe and make a limited number of them just as a tease. Hopefully the execs in Munich will wake up and realize if they want to truly compete in the US market with Mustang GT350s' and Camaro 2SSs' they'll need to continue M2 production.

>>15295565
BMW returned to inline sixes to pass the latest emission checks.
Fords downsize to i4's and V6s. And i6 is bettet than both of them.
Also Ford interiors are fucking horrible
Fuck ford really

>>15296475
>better*

>>15296475

Totally agree I loved the sound of my ex bosses M4 and it's inline 6. If I could pipe the sounds into my living room and just sit there listening to it I would. I'm also not a huge fan of Ford and how they fucked over my dad once claiming that the warranty was void on the transmission due to after market modifications even though none had been installed.

>>15295271
underpowered? get the ones with the H6 3.0 or the XT