European Muscle Cars

>>15181831
Mercedes 450 SLC 5.0

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Germans are better at muscle cars than Americans honestly

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>>15181889

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>>15181895

>>15181902
You're missing the big point of muscle.
CHEAP V8's.
a cheap new V8 doesn't really exist in yorup unless it's an imported Mustang or Camaro.

>>15181931
Yeah I bet all that plastic and overheating engines make it muscle.

>>15181931
>7.4L v8

>240HP

>Muscle

lol

>>15181931
As an American, you are subjectively wrong. There was nothing cheap about an scj or semi car or zl1 car. The mustang and canaro aren't muscle cars as well, they're pony cars

>>15181931
A v8 mustang is like €90k here

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>>15181831
Basically a muscle car shouldn't be dog's bollocks in terms of looks or build,but must be faster/more powerful than other cars

also,I mean,this is the stereotypical european "muscle car"

>>15181943
>Memes
>>15181958
>>1943
>>15181960
>Semantics

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>>15181831
Yes, the new AMG GT is really nice aswell, but it's just missing this craziness compared to the SLS AMG
https://youtu.be/jG8JPZ3YUH0

>>15181972
Your whole argument was cheap power, yet when they were new muscle cars with the engines you jerked off to were anything but.

>>15181972
None of the big motored muscle cars were ever cheap dude.

The cheap ones were all pokey i6 and 130HP V8s

>>15181931
>unless it's an imported Mustang or Camaro
Lol no, import fees, registration fees and taxes will take care of that.

A cheap V8 doesn't exist in yurop.

>>15182056
Well you could get a best to shit old used by
>But cucked by less than 5l v8s

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>>15181958
>cherry picking numbers from the middle of the malaise era
Try this:
>7.0L V8
>426 HP

That's a 1970 Chrysler 426 Hemi V8, aka "The Elephant Motor"

>>15182098
>cheap

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>>15182098
too bad they didnt make that much power

probably about 300-350hp in the real world

that was an insanely expensive car too

this is a true cheap V8 car of the time that ran low 14s

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>>15182111
>360 HP
>4.9L V8
Meet the 67-69 Chevy Camaro Z28. They were underrated from the factory for insurance reasons.

>>15182098
>426HP gross

so about 280hp real world

got it

>>15181877
>4 door
>muscle car

Muscle cars aren't used to haul around the 12 migrants living in your house Hans

>>15182127
didnt even make over 300hp when in a car

it only made 360 with no accessories and headers installed on an engine dyno

>thread for European muscle
>discussing American cars
no one does muscle like the Americans... except maybe the Australians

>>15182127
You realize all American HP ratings in the 1960s were total bullshit right?

>>15182139
lies. It was rated at 290 HP in the car. Hot Rod magazine tested it on a dyno at closer to 360 HP.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1001-muscle-car-engine-shootout/

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Alfa Romeo Montreal master race

>>15182145
Notice how they are testing the motors with no accessories or transmission.

>>15181931
in germany they aren't as expensive as they are in America, just like how our muscle cars are cheap here but 50K+ for a base mustang GT there

>>15182155
but they're more realistic numbers.

>>15182127
oh and it wasnt cheap either

it cost about the same as a Corvette

>>15182145
with headers, no accessories and on an engine stand

360 is still gross so it makes what 270-280hp in the real world?

>>15182145
>Our pair of 302ci small-blocks was run at Westech on the Superflow 902 in the same configuration, meaning no accessories, an electric water pump, and 1 3/4-inch, long-tube headers. Both motors were run with the same 750 Holley Street HP-series carburetor used previously on the 327 and 289.

>>15182163
How's that?

>>15182163
>dynoing a freshly rebuilt motor on an engine stand with not so much as a water pump being driven

>real world power

>>15182184
Because the engines were originally rated at 290 HP gross. It's closer to 300 HP net.

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6.8L with 428HP at the rear wheels including the losses from the automatic transmission even

no bullshit engine stand dynos

>>15182225
And it sure as fuck wasn't cheap.

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The old C63 AMG was probably the closest thing to a European muscle car in recent years.

>big N/A V8
>big power
>RWD
>couldn't turn because too much power

>>15182164
From what I found they the original factory price was around $3,500, which is about $23k in today's money.


Anything close to 290 HP for 23k isn't too bad at all, especially for the 60s. That's near what ferraris where putting out during that time

>>15182270
except cars have gotten more progressively expensive and simply adjusting for inflation doesnt work out

its still a 15 second car so theres no way in hell it actually made even 290hp

>>15182297
It was still a good deal for the time.
For 23k today, you can get a 300 HP Mustang 3.7L V6 or a 270 HP Camaro 2.0L Turbo

>>15182307
and both of those cars are leagues faster while weighing more

hmm something doesnt add up there does it

and no its a shitty deal when you can get a 13 second AMC for the same price

>>15182261
>couldn't turn because too much power
>because too much power

The most important thing is to believe it

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>late 60's muscle cost an arm and a leg
>"cheap"

>>15181882
No

> yuropoors don't understand muscle cars: The Thread

>>15182579
>yuropoors don't understand "my dick is small and I have to compensate for it" American """cars""": The Thread

>>15181968
The Capri is not a muscle car, it's barely a sporty coupe.

>>15182613
> missing the point, then predictably fixating on cock: The Post

>>15181931

Thats what it means to be a pony car you fucking moron not a muscle car

>>15181889
they are a bit to 1337
like >>15181931 says aside from a few late 70s wank cars

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>The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving." A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for street use and occasional drag racing. They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing.

European V8s (lol) are sports cars. Only American cars are even qualified to be muscle cars.

>>15182894
these faggots will actually argue with the dictionary definition of a muscle car anon, I've seen it before. Good luck Br/o/

Everyone wants their special snowflake to be called a muscle car.

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Opel Manta dude

>>15182138
It was a giant v8 shoe horned into a sedan, is that not the definition of a muscle car?

>>15182894
American muscle cars are complete shit tho

Sports muscle is actually good

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>>15183251

>>15183267
I dont know how a riced out looking Mustang with a Corvette engine and a pricetag more than a Ferrari changes anything

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>>15182628
it's a fast rectangle
that's what makes a muscle car.
relative swiftness and squareness

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>>15183272
That was just a token defense, objectively you're probably right

Subjectively though, fuck no

>>15183230
Muscle cars are 2-door vehicles.

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>All the fun of a muscle car with all the luxuries of a comfy sedan

If you can afford the upkeep, get an M5

Where was the Pantera made?

>>15183504
Italy.
It had a ford motor though

There has never been a point to muscle cars in Europe. They were historically as they are presently too expensive to run, and when they run they just run you into the next tree because they can't turn to save your life.

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>>15183731
At the very best there are a few British roadsters with "Rover's" (in)famous 3.5L aluminium V8 shoehorned into.

>>15183230
Hans staph pls

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why are you so fucking retard to call nowadays merc family sedans muscle cars you fucking idiots

>inb4 hurr durr german engineering and big engine


remember for gods sake that the most important thing in muscle car is sporty look...

and if the thread is about european cars dont fucking limit yourselves to posting only german cars

>>15183863
>remember for gods sake that the most important thing in muscle car is sporty look..

most muscle cars were generic shitboxes with big engines

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>>15183863

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>>15183887

>>15183887
Thats a proper sports car though, not muscle.

>>15183863
>>15183887
>>15183912
all sports cars

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>>15183912

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Aston Mustang, anyone?

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>>15181831

>>15181889
>plastic over-engineered pieces of shit are better than cheap, metal push-rod V8's.

>>15183965
>old mercedes V8
>plastic

>>15183302
So Chevy Novas, Chevelles and Impalas aren't muscle cars then.
Gotcha. I'll go tell the boomers that someone on the internet applied a two door limit on muscle cars retroactively.

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>>15181831
Renault Alpine

>>15184023
that's a sport's car

>>15184035
your mom's a sport car, faggot

>>15184023
That's basically a French 911 rooted in rallying.

Cool, yes, but not a muscle car.

>>15183979
Fuck off tripfag

>>15184061
BRO CALM DOWN ITS A PRANK

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>>15184023
>>15184035

It is literally an european foxbody.

>>15184040
well my mom is an alpine so you are right sir

>>15184077
Only in terms of looks, sort of.

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This is a muscle car. Lots of interior space, big trunk, bigger engine, 2 doors (or 4 if you are a boomer with the wrong body style) and blue collar affordability. There's a reason an Imperial of the same year is a luxury coupe and the Fury was a muscle car. A Mercedes by that set cannot be a muscle car. Did they make a 2 door V8 car that was powerful? Yes. Could your average blue collar worker afford one? Not even. It was meant to be a David v Goliath only David loaded his sling with 350+ ci of engine.

>>15184077
It looks good, can turn and the engine is in the back, so no.

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>>15184077
it's neither very powerful or fat or can't turn
so no

>>15184097
You do know muscle car is a subjective term right?

>>15182261
I dont know why but I want an "old" c63. How much of a pain in the ass maintaining those glorious 6.2l beast cause I may want one when they cost 10K even if by that time I could buy mustang gt with modern suspensions.

>>15184134
Now Kit Kat I expected more from someone that frequents CCG. It's a defined objective term.

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If you want cheap european power TVR is probably your best bet, they'll cost you a lot repair wise though, plus they can turn so that takes away the muscle car element

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>>15184208
>"muscle" car is a defined objective term

pure autism

>>15184227
Fuck off tripfag

>>15184251
bro its a prank calm down

>>15184227
Sorry kid, I guess they didn't show you the dictionary in the special class. Nice finger-painting skills though bro, your mom was super happy about it.

>>15184134
Sorry bro, it's completely objective. There's no room for special snowflakes here. It either is or it isn't.

>>15183988
I'm sure it won't be the first time they caught shit for having a four door Nova, Chevelle, or Impala.

>>15184097
>blue collar affordability
Muscle cars were never blue collar affordable, unless we're talking 50's and 60's economic dreamland situation. The price tag on a V8 Mustang nowadays can relatively easily be transplanted through time into the past. The numbers go down because you reverse inflation, but the price tag is still massive for the time.

>>15184524
Yes but still affordable at that time as well. And that is exactly what I am referencing, the real muscle car era. Todays "muscle" is limited to just Dodges as Ford lacks the Torino and Chevy has no Chevelle or worthwhile Malibu/Impala. Closest we have is the Challenger which at 40k for a 6.4 V8 is affordable B the blue collar worker. You also forget that the wage vs cost of living was way different than today and when scaled, gasoline, food and such would be close to half its current price.

>>15184524
It doesn't translate well into today's economy. Even if it cost the exact same price accounting for inflation, the boomers had a ridiculously good job market. Fucking managers at radio shack made 6 figures BACK THEN. God damn.

>>15184208
Don't get me wrong, I love almost all classics. Muscle car is just almost as broad and objective term as sports car though.

>>15184274
That's not how the real world works friend

>>15184634
But it isn't. No amount of
>but it is! I want it to be!
Will change a car into a muscle car.

>>15184670
What are you even arguing? There's no objective measure that makes a difference charger a muscle car. It just is one because we all decided to call it one. Gold is gold because objectively, its assuming structure makes it nothing but gold

>>15184703
>Difference
Meant dodge

>>15184073
That's basicaly a rebadged gto.

>>15184703
But only the second generation Charger was a muscle car. The first gen was based on the Barracuda platform to combat the Mustang and subsequent Camaro. Both the Charger and 'Cuda were based on the E body midsized platform and featured a true sedan interior (vs the 2+2 configuration of the first Barracuda and the 1st gen Charger. The latter gets lumped in to the muscle car 2nd gen by name only. It may have featured a 383 at one point, but never got the larger RB engines of the muscle cars until 1968 and beyond.) It's like the comparison we are making above between European and American classics in the way that the Europeans made sports cars (ie the lighter, smaller, better handling Barracuda and 1st Gen Charger) and Americans combatted their high price tag across the pond cousins with muscle in racing (ie most any B Body).

>>15184876
Meant to type B body not E body in the second sentence.

>>15184876
The only objective measure you used to describe a muscle car was the rb big block, yet isn't a 350 lt1 powered Chevelle a muscle car?

And plenty still call pony cars a form of muscle car. Even the dictionary calls muscle cars small with large high performance engines. Well by that definition you could count a 289 gt350 as a muscle car even though it's bordering on sports car.

Muscle is a completely subjective definition. You can call a clk63 amg a muscle car and be just as right as the guy who considers it a travesty to own

>>15184801
that car was designed in australia then sold rebaged as a pontiac in the US.

>>15184904
Kit kat leave.
You are literally arguing against the literal dictionary definition of something. If it doesn't conform exactly to the definition, then that isn't what it is.

Believe me, when I was a kid I thought my 90s grand prix was a muscle car. You'll grow out of this weird phase you're in.

>>15181831
The 928 was basically a German Corvette.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0EljLgf01E

>>15183988
Why do you think the 2 door variants of those vehicles are worth several times more than the 4 door variants?