Other than cost, why don't more car companies use timing chains?

noise
weight

>>14493858

Most companies have switched to timing chains. Very few engines use belts anymore.

>>14493911
>tfw my accord uses belt
>tfw just bought it for 2k and will need new belt soon
>tfw broke

Fuck this gaye earth

>>14493858
>>14493879
literally the only reasons.

I am interested to see how the oil-bath timing belt on some new ford products ages..

because they are retarded.

>>14493858
Hopefully you meant timing gears instead of timing chains.

>>14493937
>not having an emergency fund
Pleb

>>14493858
>why don't more car companies use timing chains?

Most of them do. Can't think of very many manufacturers that still use belts in their new cars.

>>14493858
Timing chains in OHC engines used to be prone to stretching, were noisy, and were more costly to produce.

This is why timing belts became popular for quite a while - manufacturers moved away from larger, simpler engines to higher revving, cheaper, twin-cam engines, or engines that had balance shafts and ran water pumps off of the timing belt.

These days timing chains have come back to reduce service costs and because they can be more efficient than timing belts.

HOWEVER.

Volkswagen, Renault, and I believe Peugeot, are beginning to bring Timing Belt In Oil technology out on some of their newest engines.

This gives the efficiency of a timing chain and (supposedly) the longevity - they're meant to last 150k miles at least - while also being lighter and quieter than timing chains and having no chance of stretching.

I wish I came into the automotive industry 30-40 years ago so I could be retiring now.

>>14494156
Bs. Everything has a chance to stretch when its being pulled. At best it has a slight stretch over time.

>>14494338
Yes, timing belts stretch, but only a small amount compared to how readily a timing chain will stretch if it's a poor design (GM), has poor quality oil / infrequent changes, or simply gets old.

>>14493858
Cost

>>14494038
Why is it that people don't have money?
I'm 19 and make 2700USD a month after tax.
(23000SEK).
People on 4chan work at fucking McDonald's and spend their money on shite?
Genuinly interested.

>>14494338
oil reduces friction/heat tho

VW has a real good time with them.

>>14493858
They need to be oiled, therefore being inside the crankcase, which drives up cost.

Belts work well and are much cheaper and easier

>>14493858
Noise
Ease of maintenance
Rotating mass.

>>14495613
>being inside the crankcase
They're not, they're in their own little oil filled compartment.

>>14493858
because gears are better.

>>14494506
>2700 a month
>broke

m8 i live comfortably on 2000 a month

>>14493879
Noise difference is minimal.

>>14493911
The Japs have returned to chains in the early 2000s, Ford has started using belts for the first time with the new Ecoboost block. VAG diesel is 100% belt since 2004, TSI is still chains. France is 100% belt, along with FCA and GM.

>>14494506
>sweden
Well there's your problem, someone's gotta pay for all those muslims.

>>14495759
too bad almost no cars use it besides ridiculously expensive ones like the Phaeton.

>>14497228

Japs use chains
Only the first 2.0 > ecoboost engines have belts
The koreans use chains
Gm and fca are depending on engine

>>14493858
length problems
cost (for the manufacture not the consumer)
>>14494156
ohv with duplex self tensioning links reporting in

>>14497228
Most diesels still use timing gears.

>>14494506
>SEK
easy money

>>14497354
I know of one diesel, and that' the V10 TDI, what other diesel uses gears? The only other modern engine that I am aware of is the Porsche Carrera GT V10.

>>14493858
Digital.

>>14494038
>being so poor that routine maintenance is an emergency

Pleb

>>14497569
Cummins
Ford diesel
Detroit diesel
Caterpiller
Perkins
Deutz
MAN

>>14497569

1VD-FTV uses gears to the injector pump, vacuum pump and power steering pump then chain from the injector pump to the camshafts.

Just about all medium and heavy duty diesel is gear driven. Cummins, Hino, Isuzu, Detroit, Cat, International etc.

>>14497727
>>14497741
OP said car, so I limited my assumptions to cars, and it seems that wasn't to wrong, that mild and heavy duty are something completely different is clear, look alone at individual heads per cylinder...

Belts used to be more efficient, less power loss. They all used to be more accurate, especially at higher rpm

>>14497711
I'm not him. I'll be able to afford my timing belt replacement next year no big deal.

Other than cost, why don't more companies use electric motors? They are better in every way shape and form.

>Faster
>Always on
>Your car will actually gain range as batteries improve
>Your shitbox will always use the same gasoline and never improve

>>14493937
How much does it cost anyway?

>>14497789
The 4JJ1 that comes out in the Isuzu rodeo (for like 15 years now) has nylon timing gears. I think Nissan TD23 TD27 and TD42 are gear driven as well

>>14497886
>buy a shit car and hope someone eventually invents something to make it tolerable that won't fit because reasons

>>14494338

I know you really don't think that a chain can stretch more than a belt. Right?

All those floppy chain are over 100,000 miles in use which is about 2-3 belt changes.

Go grab a timing belt and chain and give them some bound stretches and I can guarantee that you can feel the belt stretch and the chain wreck your hand.

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Why not a gear drive

>>14499043
I know belts stretch. Thats what I was saying. The guy said oil bathed timing belts would never stretch. Which I said bullshit.

>>14500034
Because that wont wear out,shitty belt will snap and the dealer will get the business

>>14500034
Because just look at all that mass that now has to spin a bunch, wasted power.
Also only really works on pushrod engines.

>>14499043
>literal retardation
I would like to direct you to the EVO X. A chain so great it stretches with normal use.
And no, belts don't stretch to a point of causing timing issues. Any slack in them is accounted for in design. Chains do yield and hence stretch, permanently.
>pull with your hand
God you really are an idiot.

>>14500098
You read the thread, right, Porsche used it on the V10 for the Carrera GT and VW for the V10 TDI for the Phaeton and Touareg, both far from being pushrod engines...

>>14494506
Anything that pays well is either a factory job or requires a trade school/college/somebody on the inside. So you've either gotta work in a factory, know someone, or go tens of thousands of dollars into debt to make a liveable wage

>>14497228
>>sweden
>Well there's your problem, someone's gotta pay for all those muslims.

2700$ after tax at the age of 19 is rather good here. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Why is is that people are unable to save up some money and spend it on stuff they crave.
Would be nice to decide what my taxmoney would go to. I don't wanna fund some shit skin family here in Sweden.

>>14497147
>>2700 a month
>>broke
>m8 i live comfortably on 2000 a month

2700 is great here. Where you from?

>>14493937
> <$200
It's really not too bad.

>>14494089
A lot of Japansee manufacturers like honda and toyota still use antiquated timing belts and the worst part is that many of them are employed on interference engines

Hell it seems like all of the fags with 4th gen Supras remove their timing cover to expose the timing belt because it looks nest I guess?

>>14500034
I enjoy my hearing too much

>>14506302
Like timing gear noise is loud enough to ruin your hearing.

>>14497991
I got the belt replaced on my wife's Honda Pilot in November. It cost me literally $1,000+

>>14497789

Most older IDI car engines are still gear drive. Someone mentioned TD42, TD27 but QD32, SD33 etc are still all gear. Isuzu are almost all gear drive, Toyota 2H, 12H, etc etc

When manufacturers started with single and dual overhead cam direct injection diesels the chain became popular.

>>14506253
>Supra owners removing timing covers

What? I've literally never heard of this.

(And I suck Supra dick for a living.)

>>14506253

Access to my cam gears man. I'll put the cover back on when I'm finished playing with the LSA.

>>14507136

Ayyye mine does, see >>14507144

>>14500158
>Chains do yield and hence stretch, permanently.

>implying it isn't more common for timing BELT failures

>>14500158

Crock of shit champion. You've changed a handful of belts, tops. Once any belt or chain runs out of tensioner travel it's anyone's game. If you haven't seen drift from belt drives then change more belt drives. Not saying it's common, but it ain't unusual to see.

Drift on a gear drive is a pretty bad day. Especially when injector pump static drifts advance and retard continuously but not in a sequence. There's a tooth in the sump somewhere, but it's not where it should be.

>belts are better
See: CVT

I have a double-chain. S'good, so far. Haven't heard complaints about that being a problem.

>>14507643
Cvts are a joke.

Why not use timing gears?

>just took my audi tt in for a cambelt change
> £350
>If I bought a later model with a timing chain it would have been £2000 as it's an engine out job

That's why

>>14507643
>torque input limitations
nuff said

>>14500158
Actually, one of the major reasons Toyota has moved back to timing chains is because of variable cam timing. A belt allows for more variation in cam timing because of flex and stretching issues under a load. A chain is more stable and accurate. With multiple camshafts with variable cam timing on all of them, belts are not accurate enough. If you have ever struggled with cam correlation codes you will understand.

That said, already this year I have had 2 V6 4 Runners with cam correlation codes and both were chain motors. One of them had 120K but the other one only had 80K. The chains on both of them had stretched beyond spec. So chains aren't perfect, they are just more accurate over all than belts. And many Toyota customers were very upset at having to replace T-belts at any 100K. Most Toyota customers don't believe that they should have to spend any money for any type of service beyond oil changes.

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>>14508189
>cambelt change
>£350

>>14508189
>engine out job
Built-in design so they can rape your wallet. Wouldn't have made a difference regardless of the timing system.

>>14493879
More damage when they break.

>>14508267
I see you've never owned an audi. They're wallet rape.

>>14497228
>Ford has started using belts for the first time with the new Ecoboost block
>first time
incorrect

>>14499029

"Nobody could ever possibly use one gigabyte of data." -the 80's

Electric motors are already very efficient and batteries are making great strides. Just look at the past 7 years. The mainstream markets have seen 3 new battery technologies, each surpassing the previous by huge leaps. The beauty of the whole thing is that voltage and current is still just voltage and current, so your drivetrain will remain untouched and the only thing that will change is the batteries and a possibly a charging circuit. The motors and controllers will be the same.

>>14508746
>batteries are making great strides
48V systems in cars are coming. Just wait.

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>needing timing belts/chains/gears

>>14510828

>needing apex seals every other oil change