Using JP8 in a diesel engine

>1. Buy a diesel car for cheap
>2. Test how it runs with that stuff
The risk is rather low when you compare it to the possible gains.

>>14236377
It might run fine in the shitbox for the couple of days I test it, then six months later I find out it's destroyed the internals of my daily drive.

It's a $60000 car, I don't want to fuck it up. I'm getting some mixed answers off Google, some seem to say yes, others say no.

Need some help from the experts, /o/. Free fuel for the next decade would be pretty fucking sweet if it's not going to cost me that much in repairs because of it.

Should be ok, it can't melt the engine's steal beams.

>(the fuel, not the tank itself)
Do you have like 90 fuel drums around?

>>14236412
I have hangar space at a small airfield, I can get my own tank and store it there.

Well from wikipedia it says:
"Apart from powering aircraft, JP-8 is used as a fuel forheaters,stoves,[2][3]tanks,[4]by the U.S. military and its NATO allies as a replacement fordiesel fuelin the engines of nearly all tactical ground vehicles and electrical generators, and as acoolantin engines and some other aircraft components. The use of a single fuel greatly simplifies logistics."
However I have no idea if it will work on your particular engine, your best bet, is too ask other forums, research yourself and make a choice if you want to use it or not

>>14236397
Underrated post

>>14236450
Might even be an idea to just ask an Alfa Romeo dealership directly.

Yeah, I'm gonna go do that. Thanks /o/.

>Alfa Romeo
>$60k car
>Tank full of jet fuel for free
>has a hangar at an airport


mafia pls leave

for some anecdotal evidence, my friend works with a guy who has run JP8 in a diesel car for several years

interestingly, but not related to your question, this car is actually registered as a petrol engine, which the guy swaps in for inspections for the tax advantage (diesel cars pay around $60 per 1000km in NZ)

>>14236521
>fuel contamination is humans have been dissolved in jet fuel.
>god father Cheney gets lucky that they didn't have steel plates.

http://classroom.antarctica.gov.au/stewardship/cleaner-energy

Have heard you can expect reduced power compared to heavier diesel.

In Aus our regular diesel turns solid in subzero temps. One trick to stop that is add kero. They sell alpine diesel for cold areas also.

http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/winter-diesel-problems.pdf

Kerosene is not a slippery and regular diesel. So you will have more wear unless you add something to get the lubrication up

>>14236476
>Hello this is AlfaRomeo Dealer and I'm Brian, how can I help you?
>hi, umh, I was wondering if you guys ever tested jet fuel in one of your diesel engines.
>what?
>yeah, let's say I have this huge tank of jet fuel lying around and I wanted to use it on my diesel alfa, would you do it? I'm sure you mechanics deal with jet fuel powered cars all the time.
>*sound of hanging up*

>>14236737
lyl

>>14236547
Could the classic 2% 2-stroke oil mix help? Then again, Alfas all use common rail injection, meaning that there is no mechanical distributor pump to lubricate. Only the injectors, but they don't require that heavy lubrication. And btw, where does a diesel Alfa cost 60k? Even fully equipped 159 jtdm q4s were cheaper. Personally I would try it out with something cheap, like e.g. Peugeot 306 HDI before risking more expensive cars. Definitely an opportunity to get huge savings in fuel if OP has the means to store all the fuel.

>>14236808
There is an high pressure pump to lubricate too in common rails, and I could argue that it needs more lubrication than a distributor pump (I am just speculating tho) considering it shits out fuel at ~2000bar versus the few hundred bars of a distributor.

Regardless of the system, there is always an high pressure pump to lubricate

>>14236823
True. However, I wouldn't think that the lubrication requirements for the high pressure pump would be as high as for a mechanical pump. Afaik high pressure pumps are not as complicated by structure as distributor pumps. I would be more worried about the return valves in the injectors. I am speculating as well. Best bet would be contacting Magneti Marelli, that has designed the system. If kerosene is similar to "winter diesel" sold in northern Europe, then there shouldn't be any problems.

>>14236832
Yeah for sure high pres pumps for common rails are way less complex than distributors, but I wouldn't bet on their lower lubrication requirements tho

You're going to have to add lube to it. Or you will have premature wear.

The military vehicles that run on JP-8 are multifuel.

Fucking bait

Naval aviation bro here, we use jp5 and jp8 in our diesel tractors and I have heard of people using it in their trucks too. Can't say what would happen in the long run but the tractors are all fine.

>>14236352
The only issue you may have is that I believe that jp8 has less lubrication than regular diesel.
If anything will fail its likely to be the fuel pump.

I wouldn't hesitate. Fuel pumps are cheap anyway.

>>14236352
How long does JP8 even last? I've heard before that petrol only lasts for 6-12 months before it'll not run properly in the engine.

I would have thought gasoline would last forever if it was stored properly and pressurized.

It's just diesel with less lubrication. It will be fine in almost any diesel application.

I'm not a lawyers, your mileage may vary, etc etc

>>14238021
>I would have thought gasoline would last forever if it was stored properly and pressurized.
and it does. With no where for the most volatile components of the gasoline to evaporate to and no where for moisture to get in, gasoline will remain just fine.

>>14237906
dose a bit of 2 stroke and never worry about it again?

>>14236352
>>14236391
you drive a $60k car but can't buy fuel for it?

Hows this though anon, you take the tank, put it on CL saying "NEW NEVER USED FUEL HALF PRICE NEED OFF LOT NOW 100% UNCONTAMINATED" and get 5 years of diesel money for it.

>>14237906
High pressure fuel pumps are anything but cheap, at least in my yuropoor country.
They price them in the thousands of euros.

The low pressure fuel pumps in the tank are cheap, not the high pressure ones

>>14238442
>get thousands of gallons of potential fuel for your car
>consider the option of using them
>hurrrr lol OP can't afford gas what a cheap ass

As if you wouldn't do the same, given the chance.

>>14238600
I'd do exactly what I said in my previous post. I'd sell it and pay professionals to worry about my fuel infrastructure and quality.

OP here, just an update. Spoke to the dealership. The mechanic had never heard of it and was a bit confused as to why I'd want to run my car on jet fuel. He said he'd make a few phonecalls and get back to me. Will keep you posted.

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if it was me i'd buy a cheap-o diesel merd (W123 comes to mind) or a 940 or something similar. if it's gonna work, these should be able to take it

They are getting rid of it for free because it's probably fucked and they don't want to pay a ton of money to some hazmat company to take it away for them.

JP8 is used in U.S. Military vehicles. To use in a civilian diesel you either need to mix it with some regular diesel or buy lubricant to add to your tank everytime you fill up.

JP8 will last a long time, way longer then gasoline.

isnt illegal to store that much fuel without a permit of some kind

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>>14236352

>>14236527
Does the guy live in like, Morrinsville or something?

That's such a Waikato thing to do.

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>>14236836
It is really hard to tell. Both seem to have a definite need fore lubrication. How about that 2-stroke oil in a lean enough mix?

Run 2 stroke with about a 200:1 ratio or just use some diesel kleen in prescribed amouts, would look into changing fuel filters more often due to "contaminated" fuel

I searched some Finnish car forums and the consensus seems to be:

-Many people use 2-stroke oil with winter diesel, because winter diesel is 70% kerosene. The paraffins are reduced due to viscosity issues and therefore the lubrication is decreased.
-It is considered as an "old school trick" to smoothen the sound of the pump.
-Mechanical pumps generally benefit from using 2-stroke oil, due to modern diesel being "drier" than older standards
-2-stroke can be also used in common rails, however some are insecure about using it with piezo injectors (or Bosch Pumpe Düse)
-2dl/tank was most commonly advised as mixing ratio
-For cars with catalytic converters, oil with no ash was strongly recommended. E.g. 2-stroke oil designed to be used in outboard boat engines
-For cars that have DPF use of 2-stroke oil was generally not advised

Maybe JP8 can be used in some modern diesels with 2-stroke oil.

>>14236352
Buy a reasonable Diesel car besides your Alfa and drive forever.

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>>14236352
JP8 should burn fairly well in a diesel engine. My only concern is the viscosity and lubricating properties of the fuel may be different from diesel and you may burn out your fuel pumps.

If i were you, I would run half a test batch part JP-8/ Balance diesel, increasing the quantity of JP-8 after each tank.

Personally, fuck the truck 5000 gal of fuel is approximately 10k, and enough to last the lifetime of a vehicle.

Adding motoroil or 2-stroke oil will probably clog up your EGR pretty fast. Also I don't think the turbo would enjoy it much.
>>14240166 is probably your savest bet
I am very curious though. Wouldn't hesitate for a second if you could run the jetfuel in an old Fiat Croma diesel or something along those lines

>>14238442
Because anyone who could afford 5000 gallons of JP8 isn't going to sue OP for selling him test fuel sold as "UNCONTAMINATED".

>>14236547
>diesel
>lubricating

diesel mechanic here, just want to confirm that YES high pressure pumps do need the lubrication from diesel. i've never heard of people putting 2stroke oil into winter fuel but it doesn't sound crazy to me, i've heard owner-operators (as in, the truckers that actually know their shit) add 'diesel conditioner' to winter fuel to compensate for the "dryness"
now, if i was you, i would take a sample of that JP8 and send it somewhere that does chemical analysis. if there are any diesel engine pro shops around, ask them. they give you a chart with what's in your fuel, what SHOULDN'T be in your fuel (like metal particles) and how much of it, an overall rating of quality. i mean if that shit is full of metallic dust or extra high in water, you might want to reconsider

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Got a call back from an Alfa dealership interstate. They told me the same thing I've been reading all through here - the JP8 has lower lubricity than ordinary diesel fuel and that it would cause additional wear on various parts of the engine. However, if the service schedule is adhered to the affected parts would be replaced before they failed anyhow, and with an almost brand new engine I won't have to worry for a long, long time. He also wasn't sure how it would affect the power output, could go either way and may need to have the computer recalibrated.

All up I think I'll take it off his hands. Will get it tested as >>14240441 suggested and if it's all good I'll run it. If not, well, I'm sure I'll be able to find some use for it.

Thanks again anon.

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>>14241789
>>14236352
Also, just for the record, it's a 2015 Alfa Romeo Giulia. One of the first launched in Australia.

Pic related.

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If its a bit rough one of these may get rid of it. They are supposed to be good on biodiesel.

>>14236352
my dad used to run jetfuel in his racebikes back in the 80's. it definatly works on petrol engines, shit m8 go out an buy a shitbox for less than a grand, skim the head to a decent compression and run a massive carb. would be hilariously fun

>>14241986
>skim the head
You want lowered compression not increased.

>>14236352
>5000 gallons tank of JP-8 jet fuel for free

Sell it for people to use in heaters senpai.

>>14240385

I know right?

Wet stacking is an issue with under loaded generators

>>14236352
older diesels shoud be ok with jet fuel

but hands off anything with common rail etc

>>14236397

This, if the engine block is aluminum you need to worry but jet fuel can melt steal so you should be all set

>>14239078

Yeah those phone calls are going to be to the FBI, CIA, and local police force.

>>14240166
The mix idea is what I'd do. You can even mix some gasoline with diesel and it turns out ok. There are those who put old motor oil in their diesel engines, too, but I'd avoid that because of what's accumulated in the oil.

You will absolutely need a diesel fuel additive to increase the lubricity. I'm assuming you're not from the States so I'm not sure how the quality of your diesel fuel is, but here we have ultra low sulfur diesel, and the lubricity of it sucks compared to low sulfur diesel. Current ULSD is shitty on your engine and that extra lubricity is critical to keep pumps and injectors flowing. JP8 is far worse and will wreck your injection pump unless you put in a decent amount of fuel conditioner.