Fiesta ST vs. BRZ/FRS/86

>blatant trolling the ND

300 replies, 15 images omitted incoming

>>14176090
OP, you are a huge faggot desu

>>14176095
ND wasn't included because it can't be used as a DD for most people, and because it costs over 30k at base.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBPq7D28xGg

Spoiler alert.
>Civic Si is faster

>>14176099
Starts less than the brz

You said cheap sports car


1/10

>>14176107
>BRZ
>starts 27k
>ND
>starts 31k

Where you live nigga

>>14176111
In the united states where it starts at $24,915.

Cy@ nerd.

>>14176142
This

FF simply can't compete

>>14176142
Nobody wants the $24,915 version. You probably have to special order it.

>>14176142
Enjoy your base miata with no goodies. A base FRS would wreck a base miata

>>14176176
>implying an FRS could wreck anything

Dude i just watched an FRS get pwned by a fucking civic.

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>>14176200
>pwned

>>14176176
Good thing this thread is about fun to drive, cheap sports cars. Meaning crying about luxury (read: weight) options means you're the cancer. The miata costs less and is a fucking convertible. Even if the lack of the LSD somehow made the superior miata worse than the brz, the vert would easily make up for it.

>>14176213
Literally laughed, which is very rare for this board.

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>>14176231
You act like it being a convertible is a bonus

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>>14176176
A base FRS wrecks the club Miata by 2.2 seconds a lap.

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>>14176200
>implying an FRS could wreck anything

>>14176956
LOL dude you should post that to /r/funny

>>14176918
>50 more hp
>.01% faster

oh you

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>>14176090
I'd just get something 4 years old instead.

>>14177008
I traded my Clio 197 for a BRZ, real world performance is pretty much exactly the same, but the BRZ handles better and gives you more confidence to push harder.

Liked the Clio enough though.

>>14176918
>transmition
>no units for anything

>>14177008
Is that the Dacia Sandero?

>>14177014
you have good taste anon

>>14177046
I was pretty torn over what I was going to buy for a while, I nearly bought a 996 911 as you can find some around the 10k mark at the minute, but the prospect of a £600 bill every couple of months made me give up on that idea.

>>14176142
>using the recent 2016 stripped down model for your argument
are you even trying?

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Fiesta ST owner here, it's inspired articles like this:

http://petrolblog.com/2015/03/why-the-ford-fiesta-st-should-be-pulled-from-sale/

Personally, I liked the practicality of having 4 doors and a slightly softer suspension than a BRZ, though I did cross shop them.

also
>m-m-muh recaros

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>>14177618
I chose brz because it was two doors and n/a but also had 4seats and it was not convertible.

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>>14177672
Are the back 2 seats even real though? It just didn't seem practical enough to me. I think both are excellent platforms, people are making stable 350whp/350tq on the Fiesta with a big turbo.

Personally, I'm running the stock turbo with a tune making 220whp/270tq and it's kinda crazy.

Not sure what kinda numbers people are making on the twins after some tuning.

>>14176099
>over 30k at the base
Come the fuck on dude

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Based Skoda Octavia vRS.

>>14177720
350fwhp sounds terrible for daily driving

That is the problem with the fiesta, the more you start to push it, the more the weaknesses of fwd format will start to show.

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I DD a Fiesta ST, and it is a car that makes me smile like an idiot and laugh out loud at how fun it is. That's kind of why I picked it over the BRZ, to be honest. Not that the BRZ wouldn't be fun, but it just looks so much more serious, and I kind of hate it. It's image writes a check it just can't cash, while the Fiesta is a hatch with more than enough power to back up its looks. The BRZ crowd is mostly insufferable too, with the whole boy racer get up. Also, I take people in the back of my car, and I take my dog with me places too. Literally no regrets over taking the Fiesta, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

pic related, dog in question

>>14177834
>I can't control my own feet

>>14177861
There is nothing about control. I'm talking about turbo lag, torque steer and wheel hop.

You know there is a reason why real sports cars are not fwd....right anon?
>in before Honda type R

>>14177930

Please explain the amazing Leon Cupra? Fastest FWD hot hatch on the market, and it handles like a dream.

>>14177998
>hot hatch
>sports car

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>>14178004

Hot hatch> Sports car.

>>14178012
>2005-2010 Mustang

>>14178012
Now compare it to the new Mustang GT.

>>14178014
>>14178015

Still doesn't prove the point.

FWD cars are catching up to RWD in terms of handling.

>>14178029
>modern cars are faster than older cars
What a surprise. RWD cars are moving on too.

>>14178012
>>14178029
Have you ever been on any kind of track in your life?

>>14177930
stop doing your daily driving like it's a rally stage and expecting it to be as comfy as a cruise in a rolls royce

>>14178029
It's amazing what a fucking decade of technology can do.

>>14178035

Sorry are we talking about track days? I was under the impression this was about all round performance.

And to answer your question yes. I have. I track both my FWD hot hatch and my RWD weekend car. Both are fun in their own ways.

BRZ

looks better and isnt American

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>>14178041
>>14178032
>>14178014
>>14178015

>>14176090
My Z pisses in your FRS's intake, fuck off queer.
Go ahead and benchrace. I've owned more vehicles than you've seen years, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the FRS. The interior is 90s KIA tier too.

They are what got me interested in sports coupes again, but they are a letdown in reality. And I am a Toyota fanboi. The 370z blew the FRS away in the feels dept, that's why I bought one instead.

The 370z has Jap class with muscle acceleration, and the handling characteristics you'd expect from a traditional two seat rwd coupe making 330+hp at the crank.

You fell for the meme, while people who actually like cars and driving chose any number of quicker sharp handling cars in the price range.

>>14178078
Wow congrats you beat the least benchraceable car in existence.

>>14178012
>mustang
>sportscar
Get out. >>>gaybutt>>14178014
sex

>>14178092
Without getting into too many semantics, I'd say it qualifies, but more importantly, it's what he used, so might as well not use an outdated version of it.

>>14178090

Just proving the point that the BRZ/GT86 isn't a valid car, just for the sake of "Muh RWD" and "Muh Superior handling" because it has neither of those.

>>14178111
If you weren't a benchracing queer you might want to try actually driving cars for fun. It's not built to break track records, but to be a fun toy that has potential with some small investment from the owner.

>>14178118

>Implying I don't have cars for fun.

Saying a car has potential is biggest fucking cop out ever. And no the car isn't a fun toy. Because there are far better cars out there at being a fun toy.

It was a marketing stunt by Subaru and Toyota to get nostalgic bellends to buy their crap. The fact remains in 2016 there are better cars at that price point, that give you just as much fun, as well as all the benefits of not having a proper sized car.

There is a reason cheap RWD cars aren't made anymore. Because cheat FWD Hot Hatches have overtaken them.

The GT86 and it's other derivatives are marketing cons. The only people that buy them and man children who can't afford real sports cars like a Porsche.

>>14177720
The back seats of the BRZ are kinda like a camp toilet, not something you use all the time, but when you need it you are grateful it's there.

>>14178142
What else out there is a small light RWD coupe for cheap? Nothing. The Miata is a convertible, and everything else is bigger and heavier.
>There is a reason cheap RWD cars aren't made anymore. Because cheat FWD Hot Hatches have overtaken them.
So you are just still benchracing.
>not a real sports car somehow
You're still going just by 100% stock, because that is what benchracers do. People who actually drive cars and enjoy driving can look at a car and see "OK, I can do this, this, and this, and it'll be way better for my tastes". Case in point with the new 86, different tires and track brake pads alone cut 40 seconds off of the 'ring time. Camber bolts in the front help you more.

Or you could just be a faggot who buys a hot hatch just because it benchraces better, not because he wants a hot hatch. If you do want a hot hatch, then you're not shopping for a BRZ in the first place.

>>14178142
This must be bait.

The 86 is one of the most praised cars of the decade. You think toyota paid them all off?

>>14178184
>Do you think toyota paid them off?
Would itbreally surprise you if a multi billion dollar company paid the most recognised figures in the automotive world to speak well of they're cheap slow car? Do you think that doesn't happen with all sorts of cars? Are you 12?

>>14176982
8% cheaper
100% more seats
1.1% faster per lap
11.6% higher top speed
lrn 2 math.

>>14178200
>People praise the Miata for literally two decades
>anon thinks essentially a hardtop miata wouldn't be praised and the reviews MUST have been bought out

>>14178181

IF you want a cheap RWD car that's fun, and you can tinker with, you buy second hand.

A 997 can be had for the same price in the UK as a brand new 86. And you're saying I'm a benchracer for choosing a Porsche 911 over a GT86? Fuck off retard.

You know whats more fun than a GT86. A £1500 SW20. How about £500 MG Midget on skinny tires. OR £15k 350z?

You're lecturing someone on being a benchracer when you're advocating buying a GT86 and then modding it, because it has potential. When any sane car person would buy spend that money on a leagues better car in the first place. Get the fuck out.

>>14178223
No, you're a benchracer for choosing a hot hatch over a sports car purely for its benchracing. Obviously used cars are cheaper. No fucking shit. That's stupidly obvious.

>>14178200
It wouldn't be surprising, but it would be hearsay, seeing as it's a baseless claim with no supporting evidence.

>>14178232

I choose a Hot Hatch because I'm not a man child. I have a fast practical car, and a fast second hand car. And all for less than a GT86. What's the problem with that?

The Fiesta ST costs 18k in the UK. While a GT86 is around 27K. Why buy the 86 When you can have the ST AND an old MX5 or MR2 or a TT or a Z4? for less or around the same price?

>>14178242
What proof could there be?

>>14178223
have you researched the running costs of a track focused Porsche?

the miata and 86 are popular track cars because of their potential and relatively cheap running cost.

Also, the fact that you suggested a 350z out of all things just shows you don't know what you are talking about.

>>14178249
Then you are choosing practically, and perfectly fine. JUST choosing for benchracing laptimes is retarded. So you're aight.

>>14178264

We aren't talking about track focused cars here. We are talking about real world, day to day capabilities. yeah sure a Porsche will have higher running costs. But you'd be saving anywhere from 5-10k on the initial purchase. Which offsets the running costs by a massive margin.

The only reason to buy a GT86 is because you want a manufacturers warranty.

>>14178280
Why would you buy a 997 if you don't plan on going to the track?

You realize you would never reach the limits of the car on public roads right?

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>>14176090

>>14178249
BRZ is just as practical as the Fiesta, m8. The rear seats are even more comfortable.

>>14178346

You clearly don't live in the North East of England. With the roads we have here.

Yes the car hits the track, quite a lot int he summer. But I also use it as a daily in the summer. If i were building a track focused car, it wouldn't be a 997. But it's a car I can comfortable blast around a track, and then still drive it home at the end of the day.

>>14176918
By these metrics, my Kia Forte Turbo is better. Better price line, better torque, better passenger and cargo volume, and it's quicker (with the automatic, at least). It even stops sooner, even with being almost 300 pounds heavier. Its one major failing is handling and steering feel, but those weren't displayed in your little graphic.

>>14178350

I'd rather drive a base Fiesta than a Focus ST.

>>14176101
And it's even One Direction approved™

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqYo02Py5Zc

:^)

>>14178361
Nah, I live in California where we have legendary roads and much better driving conditions

Are you the anon with the automatic 997 btw?

>>14178519

You see. Driving in twisty forests in torrential rain is one of the most fun experiences to have. Especially in an MG Midget with skinny tires.

But no, Mine a semi-auto.

>>14178415
>handling and steering feel

Well it's pretty hard to quantify feels mate. Just ask BMW & Driver magazine.

>>14177857
nice dog man

>>14178555
Ah, so you don't even have a clutch pedal. That makes a lot more sense

>>14178656

Not saying I prefer Semi-Auto to manual. Because I do prefer a proper manual. But considering how I use the 997 I think I made a good choice.

I track it, but I also do a lot of miles in it. The last few years I've took it on road trips across Europe, from the North of England, down the South of France, to the Alps, up to the Czech Republic and back via the Ring in Germany. And the Semi-Auto really gave me the best of both worlds.

>>14176090
>, which do you prefer and why?
The 86, mainly because of the people who buy the Fiesta are lets be honest here chavs who couldn't afford a Focus ST or RS. Every fiesta ST has had the stock recirculation valve replaced with a dump valve linked to a megaphone that must be sounded any time they get to move a car length in traffic. As a hatch it is a little more practical but I couldn't live with the image.

>>14178688
There's no such thing as semi-auto, it's automatic and nothing more.

>>14178594
No argument there. Grip pads only tell you so much. And even then, tires play so much of a role that comparison is hard. A change in rubber lowered the skid results for the FR-S in the newer model years even though the car is functionally the same.

>>14178738

Shut up retard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

>>14178738
Doesn't understand the automotive definition of automatic.

>>14178770
Manual is a clutch pedal and a mechanical linkage between the transmission and the shifter. Anything else is automatic.

>>14178688
>Semi-Auto
>>14178768

Automated Manual is a more accurate term.

>>14178768
Read the article, it's a type of automatic

>>14178810
>>14178819

Semi-Automatic is still a valid term. So what's the problem?

That's like saying Oh you shouldn't say Sedan because it's actually called a Saloon car.

They're both the exact same thing.

>>14178860
It's automatic, stop lying to yourself.

>>14178860

Semi-Automatic Transmission sounds like it's a torque converter auto with some kind of manual shifter (buttons, paddles, shift lever, etc.) Not a single or dual clutch manual with some kind of automated shifting mechanism.

Also from that article:

>Clutchless Manual Transmission

Semantics are important.

>>14178895

Are you going to be one of those guys who is like "Hurr you didn't buy the exact right model of X exotic car" or "Hurr you got and auto and not a proper manual because only a manual is worth it"

While you drive around in your shitbox pretending you're Takumi?

I'll remember next time I buy a Porsche.

>>14178860
>So what's the problem?
He is a idiot, simple problem to fix, ignore him[

>>14178975
>a idiot

Yet they're still capable of using indefinite articles properly.

>>14179015

When all you can do is correct someones grammar I'm afraid you've lost.

>>14178943
K enjoy your automatic 1k 944 shitbox

>>14177834
Only Subaru drivers treat the gas pedal like an on/off switch m8

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>>14179044

Enjoy your jelly.

>>14179029
>I'm afraid you've lost.

I'm not the one arguing DCT's are automatics.

>>14177720
I had a 6'3" dude sitting behind a 6'3" dude and they were not comfy but the seat was where it belonged.

>>14177618
>Choosing the Fiesta ST because it has 4 doors
I'm actually amazed that people want a 4 door version. Almost all the other hot hatches tend to make do with 3. Well, up until recently.

>>14179207
I guess I goofed, it's 5 doors, the 4 door fiesta sedan is an abomination imo.

I don't think I would buy a 2 door Fiesta unless it was the only option for a Fiesta RS. (I've heard rumours it's coming out of Cologne, as North American/4dr Fiesta production is leaving Mexico shortly for Thailand)

>>14177720
>Not sure what kinda numbers people are making on the twins after some tuning.

Depends what you spend, a decent map and a few bolt ons will gain 10-15hp at the expense of the front cat, this also give a big improvement in the mid range, Forced induction will set you back more and take you up to 300-320 when you hit the limit of the main injectors, you can fudge around it a bit with the secondary injectors but that way leads to big problems, if you want more than that you can hit 450 whp on stock internals reliably with decompression plates and better injectors / fuel pump, as with anything the sky is the limit if you have a fat enough wallet.

>>14179228
I got that you meant 5 doors, I just don't understand why the US gets a 5 instead of the 3dr the rest of the world gets.

>>14179248

Because the average America is fatter?

>>14179248
It's because the North American Fiesta ST is built in Mexico and there is no 2 door platform here, the rest I believe are built in Cologne, Germany and is the 2-door only variant. Also where the Focus RS is being produced for the global market.

>>14179246
So, on my Fiesta ST my power mods are:
Cat back exhaust
RAM Air Intake
FMIC
Cobb AP
E-tune

And I gained ~40whp, and 68 torque.

What are BRZ specs with a comparable $2,000 in upgrades?

>>14178860
It's a DCT. it's a type of automatic. Either say automatic or say DCT. don't be a faggot and say semi auto.

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>>14176090
I think a 370Z would be worth the extra cash. Or wait for the Fiata.

Or... I hate to be that guy... a used Corvette or Cayman.

For cheap fun I really like the 6th gen Camaro in SS1 trim.

>>14179405
I love the fact that they're putting it on a diet. I wish they styled it better, though. But hey that's just my opinion.

>>14179316
wrx turboh swep, and its better than your shit fiesta, plus im calling bs on 40whp, no way you passed 30 w.o the downpipe, yes i watch the smoking tire

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I have a 2015 Fiesta SE. Just curious, would the 2.0T FoST engine fit in there? How about a transmission from an AWD Fusion?
I have an idea...

>>14179453
you are not driving a rally car faggot

>>14179453

Not worth the time, money or effort.

Keep the money, and buy a older WRX or something.

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>>14179466
I never said that I was faggot

>>14179480
I'm thinking waaay in the future when the engine dies. I'm not going to rip out a practically new engine.

>>14179515
Modern engines last a hell of a long time on average. There's a good chance your tastes in car may have changed by the time that rolls around.

>>14179534
Valid point, sir.

>>14179453
Pretty good idea but is an awd fusion available stick shift? You would probably be better off doing it to a standard fiesta with St/after market suspension parts.

>>14179453
thats a nice looking fiesta. auto or manual?

>>14179654
Oh yeah... They're probably all auto. I know! I'll use the Focus RS drivetrain.

>>14179684
It's not mine. I just pulled that pic from google. I have a 2015 and the Fiesta in that pic is 2014 or older.

Fuck it, i'ma buy an ST tomorrow.

>>14176101
civics are neat, hope the new gen raises the bar.

>>14177672
nice, any mods?

>>14177857
cute dog

>>14179453
Manual? What other cars did you look at when shopping?

>>14180206
Fiesta or Focus?

>>14180255
I've been looking at a Fiesta ST for a few months.

Just biding my time until the local dealer has a decent offer on. I'll have a looksee tomorrow.

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>>14180206
Get a Mountune MR230 kit for it, and do some weight reduction (spare tire, some carpet/mats, lightweight battery, replace front seats and remove rear ones).

That'll give you 230hp and 250lbs of torque in a car that weighs 25XX pounds. That's fucking crazy. And mountune kits don't void warranty.

>>14179439
Bigger down pipe is worthless with the stock turbo, the stock down pipe is also huge...

And good for you watching smoking tire? The numbers he claimed had the community figuring Cobb rigged the dyno somehow to get the numbers he did, there's no way he was putting down the power he claimed.

According to ~virtual dyno~ I was putting out 220whp/270tq, stock the fiesta is 197bhp/202tq.

>>14180307
That's only with the mp215 kit installed by an ase certified mechanic, the MR230 is like any other after market part maker.

>>14180255
My car is stock, and I am keeping it for now. I really like it how it is.

>>14178651
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Does my dog turn you on? Jesus

>>14176090
86 because RWD

>>14177834
>350fwhp sounds terrible for daily driving
You sound like a bitch nigga.

> possessed

>>14176099
>>14176213
>>14176326
>>14176918
>>14176973
>>14177672
Oh what a surprise. Supoohru brzfags shitting up /o/ with an incredible amount of asspain, wailing and crying on the floor. Your car is beyond gay, and at this point your love hate relationship with the MX5 is obsessive.

I'm not partial to either car but the brz is a shit vehicle. The interior is cheap plastic Walmart tier and the engine is a huge letdown in performance and reliability. The "boxer" engine at the end of the day is retarded and has gremlins.

Cry harder, it could have been better but it isn't and wasn't designed from the bottom up.

>>14178118
>is a toy
So the brz is a small toy dildo for sticking up your fucboi ass.

I'd get the 3.8 Gen Coupe instead of either.

>>14181365
>buying a worse Korean Mustang

>>14181393
>buying American
Besides the fact it's like $200 a month difference

>>14181239

>pulls up to brz at light
>revs engine angerly
>stupid brz cheap plastic shit heap
>wreeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>peal off at Mach 5
>haha smoked that POS boxer shit
>brz just cruises away thinking wtf was that guys problem
>brz enjoys ride to gfs

> come home alone posting hate on brz guy for no reason


Your guys hate for our cars blows me away. Enjoy your 91 POS 200sx

>>14178083
I agree with this guy

FRS/BRZ was a total let down and fail of a car.

>>14180206
>>14180284
keep in mind that most fiesta st drivers got rid of them quickly.

>>14183355
Source? I've seen a few people in the NA community sell, but not really as many as you might expect. The community is still growing every day.

>>14181239
I didn't say the miat sucked, I just chose the brz for the extra room and the hard top. The interior is nice compared to my brand new truck and the only thing I don't like about the brz is the lack of visability

>>14176090
I prefer the BRZ. The Fiesta is fun, but I am just not a fan of FWD cars. I don't have kids, so I don't need more than 2 seats. I also don't like turbos, and the BRZ is an awesome looking car where as the Fiesta looks like shit and is a Ford

That being said, I owned a BRZ for a year and a half. I had way too much fun but not enough self control. Sold it and went back to a Jeep Wrangler

>>14183798
Well, I'm talking mostly from UK experience so the different roads and more variety in fwd options might make the difference, a simple search in pistonheads will show just how many used 1 to 2 year old fiesta st's are for sale already. For what it's worth, it seems more related to it being tiring when your not on full attack (stiff suspension, squeaks).

>>14184185
Ah that makes sense, the car has also been around for a few more generations in the UK as well.

The mk7.5 Fiesta ST is the only generation available in America so they haven't been passed around quite as much.

>>14176956
The car in that pic was tboned btw.

>>14184158
>implying its even fast enough to get a ticket

>>14185977
It's faster than a miat. Also I have soooo whatever