Pontiac

i think you mean a beat up one that doesnt run
requirement
sagging headliner

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Because its bad ass.

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>>14074903

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>>14074903
All I imagine when I see a Trans Am (or any pontiac) is this pic related fucking his sister.

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>>14074891
And this Pontiac is the official car of Broke ass Niggers.

>>14074891

I thought that the camaro (all versions) that was the official white-trash car

Poor Pontiac was nothing but a dog kept on a leash and kept from its full potential by GM wanting Chevy to always come out on top.

>>14074989
the Firebird is a Camaro with a bodykit

so its the same shit

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>>14075000
True but it's not their fault as GM kept them on a leash to ensure the Camaro always came out on top.


Still with that leash around their throats the 1973 Trans Am was pretty nice, easily the most "exotic" of all muscle cars, and worth owning

>>14074891
That's not a cavalier.

>>14074915
sounds like a personal problem

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>>14075105
>easily the most "exotic" of all muscle cars

the Firebird was easily the last of the classic muscle cars but its nowhere near the most exotic

not even top 10

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>>14075137


Looks like an everyday car with a big hood vent added.

The only cool part is the Hurst shifter. The Toronado could have been the coolest Olds muscle but they fagged out and made it front-wheel drive.

But it's still not as exotic-sexy as the 1973 Firebird Super Duty 455 with Formula hood

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>>14075151
you are on crack

the Firebird looks like a redneck ricer compared to the Hurst Olds

>thinking a luxury car wouldve been muscle if it was RWD

lel

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>>14075151
If you want an exotic muscle car, look no further.

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>>14075167
thats a luxury car too

obvious choice would be pic related

>>14075161
But it doesn't look exotic. One can drive by and not get my attention as I've seen a million of them.

>>14075167
I like the front end but the rest of the car screams "typical late 60's/early 70's car"

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>>14075167
Or this. The GT-S. Came factory with a 426 elephant. Ungodly quick and quite rare. A local high school Auto teacher had one that he dailyd 4 miles to and from home. At the end of every school year, the police would clear the street in front of the school and the shop teacher would have it riding on the wheelie bar for 3 blocks on slicks with 4.10 gears. Pretty boss shit.

>>14075177
Looks goofy.

And the only ones worth a shit are the HEMI ones.

>>14075183
>I've seen a million of them.

there were only 900 some made lel

compared to a mass produced Firebird that isnt special at all

>Pontiac fanboys

kinda pathetic tbqh

>>14075197
yeah youre just plain retarded

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>>14075183
Then how about this? Jensen interceptor I would consider muscle

>Chrysler RB Big Blocks
>727 TF
>RWD

And it wasn't even that fast but god does it look good.

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>>14075105
>easily the most "exotic" of all muscle cars
AMC so obscure that you even forget them when talking about exotics.

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>>14075210
if we go counting stuff like this then theres a lot to choose from

pic related had a 327 at the least and could do 170 mph

>>14075197
>Only ones worth while are the Hemis

You really don't know a damn thing about the Mopar RB engine do you? The 440-6 made more power and almost the same torque as the hemi while being lighter and easier to live with. Unlike the Hemis, the valve Las settings had to be adjusted fairly often under normal driving let alone race situations. Another problem was the higher compression on the hemi required the use of research 98 qs standard premium leaded would cause knocking. Not a problem with the 440, however the 440 cannot by design rev as high stock to stock or make the same power up top as any hemi.

>>14075222
No, I remembered AMC, but the AMX wasn't as rare as a Hurst 300 or a GT-S

>>14075223
I'll allow it. Looks like a smaller lighter and prettier Corvette.

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>>14075232
thats why you step it up a notch

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>>14075201
http://www.transamworld.com/fbird-history-php2.php


They only built 43 of the Formula SD455's in 1973, and even fewer with the "full body package" of big front air scoop, snorkel-hood, etc.

It's rare, and a six-figure car that's going up in value every single day.

In fact that pic I posted a bit up was the only pic I could find of a fully decked-out one.

The only muscle cars that are even rarer are the '70 and '71 HEMI Cuda convertibles.

>>14075244
meh

its a Firebird

Ive seen a million of them

just looks like someone riced it out

>>14075244
>The only muscle cars that are rarer are the 70-71 Cuda Convertible.

Funny, I seem to remember the Daytona, Superbird, W023 Coronet, Charger 500 Hemi, 1966 Monoco Hemi/ Sport Fury Hemi, Corvette Fuelie, Challenger T/A 426, any 300 letter car, Valiant 413.. The list goes on.

>But muh body kit

If you want to get into specifics, ill start looking but putting an SD 455 in the same rarity grouping as any of the above is wrong from a value and vehicles remaining standpoint. I love Pontiac, it was a great brand.

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>>14075240
pretty much is

could even get it with a 427

>>14075263

Except it's arguably the last of the muscle cars, having it come full circle with Pontiac beginning the muscle car era in 1963 with the GTO and ending it in 1973 with the SD455.

>>14075270
Gorgeous. I love classics in purple.

>>14075275
But Pontiac didn't start the muscle car era. The designers and engineers weren't allowed to put a BB in anything until at least 67 barring the corvette and full size cars. The Chrysler 392 Hemi was around in the 50s and the Hemi continued through 1972, the 440 into the late 70s in cars. If you really wanna go back, it went Chrysler>Ford>AMC>GM all due to the CEO of GM at the time.

>>14075275
yeah I agree with that

but saying its the most exotic muscle car is just hogwash

even if you want to throw up production numbers I doubt its in the top 10

>>14075232
Except that the AMX or Javelin were actual models. The Hurst 300 and GT-S were just special trims of common cars with souped up engines and maybe a different paintjob.

>muh one of 143 Dickshitter Everymans made that year with the Anus Brown paint, Gender Bender badges, dildo seats and air conditioning

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>>14075293
I know its not really muscle style but I think Olds kicked off the muh V8 power shit

>>14075296
But you're not coughing up anything that looks more exotic.

Do you know what "exotic" means?

>>14075278
NO CAR LOOKS GOOD IN PURPLE. Except maybe some MOPARs.

>>14075300
Then the same applies to the Javelin. The AMX was a hopped up Javelin and the only reason it saw lower production numbers is due to the size of AMC. I'm not saying I don't like it, I am a big fan of AMC and the 390 and 401. But even then, production numbers on both were higher than the 300 in any year. The GT-S may have been just a hopped up model, but the same can be said about the Superbird just being a package on a road runner which is basically what it was but you wouldn't tell someone a superbird is the same as a Road Runner because it inherently isn't. Same as the old Chevelles were a package on Malibu but it is still a Chevelle.

>>14075336
Are you retarded? Purple in the right shade looks good on any classic, but I agree in that I looks best on a Mopar.

>>14075336
do you

your riced Firebird doesnt look exotic in the slightest

>>14075343
Uh-huh.

Drive it down the road next to a Nova or 442, and see which one catches more attention.

>>14075337
>AMX
>hopped up javelin
The AMX was a completely different, 2 seat car.

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>thread about Pontiac being white trash
>redneck shows up thinking a riced Firebird is exotic

it all makes sense

>>14075337
AMX and Javelin are different cars

>>14075347
youre just a white trash fanboy bruh

and a delusional one at that

Did any American manufacturers make a muscle or pony car with IRS? or was it just boutique cars that used American V8s that had it?

>>14075355
You noticably couldn't refute.

>>14075352
From 68-70 you are right. From 71-74 you are wrong.

>>14075368
Muscle cars were mass-produced. Americans then wanted torque and power, and the companies delivered.

>>14075378
probably because your point is retarded and your bias is just going to make you refuse any answer I give

its just a Firebird

no one will give a shit

>>14075385
But that has nothing to do with what I asked

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>>14074891
>>14074903
>>14074908
These are driven by boomers
Hicks can't afford em

I'd like to nominate the Ford 'Vic [Non-cvpi] as the white trash mobile

Obviously none of you have been through hick towns.. they're fucking everywhere.

These and 4th gen camaro v6's

>>14075393
Not true IRS. There were some with Hotchkiss rear suspension but that's hardly IRS. And I cannot remember had a solid dead axle or not.

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>>14075293
I know it's up for debate, but in my opinion the 1964 GTO is the first musclecar. The musclecar craze was at its peak from 64 to 74, immediately following the introduction of the GTO. With its large engine/midsized platform and sports car touches it appealed to a youthful audience hungry for performance.
Again this is my opinion, I just think the goat fits more criteria for starting an automotive trend than this>>14075324
Then again I may be partial, pic related is my fathers. It's been restored and in this condition since 1991.

>>14075410
OK, and were these pony cars like the 60's mustangs and camaros or were these the muscle cars like the GS?

>>14074891
anything by ford

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>>14075387
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/collectible_classic/1206_1973_1974_pontiac_firebird_trans_am_sd_455/

Well apparently someone gives a shit when judging by the prices.

And I find it amusing the way you condemn it as a camaro with a body kit when ALL NON-CHEVY GM CARS WERE JUST REBODIED CHEVYS except maybe some Cadillacs. It's been that way since the 50's, and that limitation is what would ultimately choke both Pontiac and Oldsmobile to death.

>>14075417
Gorgeous GTO but the first two years it was a top trim package on the Tempest and became ots own car in 1966. It is definitely a muscle car, but the 413 Valiant was available in 1963 and jumpstarted the Mopar Muscle craze. The GTO was one of the first for sure, but not THE first.

>>14075406
Here where I live black guys (and white and Mexican posers) donk that shit.

They're not uniquely white trash enough from my experience, so I am sticking with the camaro.

Crown Vics are "universal trash" that transcends all races and panders to all of the bottom end.

My mom would race dudes in her Firebird and always won.

>>14075324
They did. Without the Rocket V8 and the Olds 88 it was stuffed into, muscle cars either wouldn't be a thing or would have shown up much, much later.

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>>14074891

Hey dodge built one to

>>14075355
What's the difference between the AMX and the javelin?

>>14075614
Nothing from 71-74. It was a trim package on Javelin for those years. From 1968-1970 it was shorter with only 2 seats.

>>14075293
>BB

I wish people would quit throwing around "big block" in regard to any large cube V8s.

>>14075151
I almost had a Toronado as my first car

>>14076134
There is a difference between a big block and a small block anon. What I stated is true, the 396, 427, and 454/455 were big blocks whereas the 327, 350, and 400 were small blocks. The latter was offered in all years for the period, the former was not until 67. Stop questioning peoples intelligence when you do not know what I was referencing or what you are talking about. All it shows is a lack of understanding of older V8s and their nomenclature. Next you'll be telling me my 512 is not a BB and I shouldn't call it one.

>>14076151
Pontiacs have been based on the same 287 cubic inch block since 1955 with varying bore and stroke. They are all the same block.

>>14076160
>He's never heard of the difference between what has referred to as the Pontiac small block and big block.
>He doesn't know about the designation for the SBP was the journal sizing being smaller than the Large Journal BBPs at 3.25" for the former and 2.5, 2 5/8, or 3.0" for the latter dependent on displacement.


Keep trying friend, my mothers side of the family have been running and driving GM vehicles for dirt modified, pro stock, pro mod, and street applications for over 60 years, mostly Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

>>14076223
Don't kid yourself, hogging out main bearings does not a new block make.

>>14076237
No but there is a difference between a crank for a 455 and a .020 over crank. If you want to hog out a main by half an inch, you have never built an engine. And if you have, I pity the poor block.

>>14076333
PMD wasn't taking 400 blocks and cutting out the mains willy nilly, I said it nonchalantly because I thought you might get the gist of what I was saying. So I'll spell it out for you. PMD made them on the line from the same architecture but manufactured for different main sizes and toleranced them accordingly, but were still based off the same overall architecture. In fact, cutting down a 455 crank to put in a 400 block is a well documented quality of life modification for endurance racing with Pontiacs, popularized by one Smokey Yunick.

>>14076333
It's also a quarter inch difference between the 400 and 455 mains, by the way.

>>14076424
Sorry, been in a mood at work. I got what you are saying after your paragraph. The .5 difference I was noting was 287-400. 2.5" vs 3.0". I said 455 because it is the largest well known Pontiac V8.

>>14076954
I was just trying to outline the point at a rather arbitrary line being drawn at the difference between an alleged big and small block being drawn by a quarter inch of main size difference, since if I recalled you had put the 400 in the small block camp.

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>>14074891
>Went to Pontiac meet.
>Expected to meet white trash.
>They were all gentlemen of mixed culture.

You must be thinking about Camaro meets or the movie Joe Dirt featuring Kid Rock.

>>14074926
Broke niggers don't own cars, they take the bus.