Which is better?

>>13936320
Fuel injection, but carburetors are acceptable on single cylinder engines.

There's literally not a single upside to carburetion apart from originality, in which case the vehicle is probably a weekend project anyway.

Why is direct injection better than normal pre-chamber injection?

Oh
My
God

Who the hell cares

Only a retard thinks a carb is acceptable in 2015.

I'll just be over here with my fuel injection, enjoying better top end power, better low down torque, better fuel economy, better emissions, better reliability, no stopping every 10 minutes when climbing a mountain and the ability to change fuel types while driving.

>>13936343
Because it allows you to vaporize the fuel more evenly, increasing power and efficiency.

>>13936353
Doesn't pre-chamber injection give a better effect because of the longer time the fuel has to diffuse within the air?

>>13936331
at WOT there is almost no real difference between SFI BFI or carbs. they just dump fuel constantly at that point.

id much rather have carbs on my car, than 40+ vacuum lines, 8 spark plugs, electronic advancing distributor, and a fuel rail that soaks everything electronic, intake and exhaust runners, and valve cover with fuel when it leaks.

>>13936343
more precise and variable per rpm

>>13936331
simplicity

>>13936370
Absolutely not.

>>13936351
>no stopping every 10 minutes when climbing a mountain

You're thinking of manual injection there, fag

Carbs are fairly good at air density correction

>>13936370
carb troubleshooting guide.pdf

>>13936372
my carb car has zero wires, sensors, or electronics.

not my fault you can't bernoulli's principle

>>13936377
I'd like to read it if you actually have it

>>13936343
The downside is carbon buildup. Gasoline usually cleans the valves. But now that the gas is only in the cylinder, your intake valve gets gunked up.

>>13936387
>www.championparts.com/carb_troubleshooting_guide.pdf
I was momentarily having trouble with the cache on my ram disk

>>13936320
Define 'better'. Better by simplicity, fuel economy...?

>>13936392
neat, thanks

>>13936381
>my carb car has zero wires, sensors, or electronics.
So? It also doesn't have
-self diagnostics
-simple and easy to understand components

Rebuilding carburetors was always seen as a chore because they are relatively complex and with many parts.

>>13936374
Not when combined with temperature drops and the changes in octane rating they aren't.

Meanwhile, in my nice turbocharged injected car, it wouldn't give a shit until we start talking literally 40,000 feet+.

>>13936400
i-i like rebuilding carbs

i do it in a dimly lit room like ryan gosling

so why do all these project drag cars have carbs?

is there a sweet sport for power to money ration when building your own drag car? I know something top end is going to have injectors but there are so so many 5000 - 10000 dollar drag cars that are carbed and they make great power.

>>13936421
>so why do all these project drag cars have carbs?
Simply put, old people.

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>>13936361
Doesn't pre-chamber injection mainly apply to older diesels? Dem high revving OM606s etc.

I personally would prefer port injection because of >>13936388 being a real issue and on a DD one can't really tell the difference.

>>13936400

Carbs are just gas and air being pushed and pulled through holes. Entirely mechanical.

Injection is wizardry with sensors.
Single and double moto/other small engine carbs are an easy way to remove the intimidation.

Injection involves less maintenance/time dialling after changes, but when you have a carbed vehicle you've worked on for awhile, you KNOW whats happening with it.

>>13936421
Boomers, boomers kids, or poor people.

For every $5k drag car with a carb, there's an LS1 camaro that does the same job while also not being shit on the street.

>>13936434
>Injection is wizardry with sensors.
Yea, you're not worth trying to educate.

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>>13936424
I mean the kind of injection where the fuel is injected right before the intake valves, like most gasoline engines that are not specifically called GDI

>>13936320
Injection. Nearly always.
The only reason not to use it is if you're poor or just don't want to spend money on upgrading anything. All o these carbed 350s are the death of me.
>Yeah, buy a cheap edelbrock and slap it on and it's good!
>Fuel injection is way too complicated!

>>13936421
they're easy and cheap and versatile and work

>>13936434
Injection is like each cylinder having it's own carb that is constantly tuning itself to be perfect. That's honestly it

>>13936435
>Shit on the street

But that's not true anon. Only adjustments I ever make on the streetability of my car is a slight idle adjustment when winter comes on. Otherwise it does well. Would injection get me better economy? Lower emissions? Yes, but those things do not matter when your displacement in CI starts with a 5 and your car is 50 years old.

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>>13936449
I agree, edelbrocks/AFBs are pretty lame

>>13936461
Is your car a drag car first and foremost?

>>13936370
this.

>>13936320
In terms of usefulness (street car):
Direct EFI > multi point (port) EFI > single point (throttle body) EFI > multi-carb setup > dual carb > single carb setup > mechanical FI

In terms of usefulness for race cars, MFI > dual and single carb applications, and slightly below EFI. For nitromethane fueled drag racing, MFI >all.

in terms of looking good:
Mechanical fuel injection with individual throttle bodies > multi-carb setup > individual throttle body EFI > dual carb > single carb > dual throttle body EFI > single throttle body EFI >single throttle body MFI

Although the difference between ITB EFI and ITB MFI is hard to spot for a novice.

>>13936370
>has to be retuned and adjusted every fortnight
>simple

>>13936461
Carbs fall short when you have a really big cam with a lot of intake reversion at idle coupled with a common plenum intake.
The lack of a steady and strong vacuum signal makes it tricky to make a carb meter properly.
ITB carbs can handle it better though.
But when rpms are up and the cam is working then all is well.

>>13936424
Yeah, the big problem with direct injection and carbon buildup is the crankcase ventilation allowing oil to get into the intake in the first place. Bullshit emissions.

>>13936480
>difference between ITB EFI and ITB MFI

protip: there's none.
inb4 load sensoring. MAP, alpha-n, MAF work with and without individual throttle bodies.

thread: carburators are shit and 2015 does not deserve shit.

>>13936481
>has to be retuned and adjusted every fortnight
Bullshit. Plain and simple.

>carb

Good for wide fuckin' open applications, not much else. Reliability suffers with changes is temperature and altitude.

>SPFI

One step up from a carburetor, increased reliability and resistance to changes in temp and altitude.

>Mpfi

Best all around for daily driven vehicles. Unaffected by changes in temperature and altitude. Design of operation keeps intake valves clean from carbon buildup.

>Direct injection

Higher performance from the same engines through better control of fuel delivery, at the expense of carbon buildup on intake valves that must be serviced at regular intervals.

>>13936491
manual itbs don't correct for air density

>>13936491
>there is no difference between ITB electronic fuel injection and ITB mechanical fuel injection
Hell yes there is.

>>13936370
>I can work on it so it's simple

>>13936388
>The downside is carbon buildup.
Why manufacturers haven't solved this using a single point, throttle body EFI injecting either petrol or a water/meth mix to regularly clean those valves is beyond me. I guess the dealerships are making good money cleaning those valves.

>>13936464
Not at all. It is a 70/30 street/strip cruiser. And I was looking at going with injection at one point and even though I had the money, decided to stay carbd and get even better flowing heads, go full mech roller, and install a new stall converter and transbrake. It just made more financial sense and got me a better return on HP/$

>>13936421
The single, only possible reason is the fact that carburetors cool the pressurised intake charge after the compressor (supercharged or turbo) more compared to injectors, because the fuel in a carburetor isn't pressurised, and thus it can draw more heat of of the air. this means you can safely run 4-5PSI more without requiring an intercooler.

>>13936440
That's called port injection.

>>13936449
The rationale that fuel injection is too complicated doesn't apply nowadays. You can go to Holley, ored something that looks like a carb, but in reality it's a 4 barrel throttle body with integrated EFI. They're also self-tuning. they fit right in, and only required some modification to the fuel system. You just roughly spec what engine you have, bam, it'll start right up. Might need an O2 sensor as well, but hey, you should have that on your carb'd car anyways because it really help with carb tuning.

>>13936481
>has to be retuned and adjusted every fortnight
Bullshit. Owned a carb'd BMW for three years. I got in touch with a good motorcycle mechanic, he tuned them for me once, and I could kick it to life every single morning, winter or not. Once your carbs are well-adjusted, they stay that way. Problem is getting them adjusted in the first place (or finding a guy that's good at it).

>>13936434
>Injection is wizardry with sensors.
Injection is actually very simple.

>but when you have a carbed vehicle you've worked on for awhile, you KNOW whats happening with it.
Same EXACT thing goes for fuel injection. I tune cars and motorcycles, injected and carbs. Once you understand the basics of operation and tuning, they are both fairly simple and understandable.

>>13936501
>Good for wide fuckin' open applications, not much else.
Also, fuel sloshing in the bowls means they can sputter on a road course.
>Reliability suffers with changes is temperature and altitude.
Not on well-adjusted ones.

>MPFI
>Best all around for daily driven vehicles.
No. Direct injection with a regular service interval is, especially considering gas mileage.

>>13936532
But with a good delivery pump and solid floats, sputtering can be mitigated.

doesn't a carb give you better throttle response?

>>13936434
>Carbs are just gas and air being pushed
>Injection is wizardry with sensors.
Confirmed for know-nothing luddite. If you knew anything about cars, you'd know that the principals of operation and equations that EFI uses are far simpler than the physics and fluid mechanics that make a carb work.

Sure, a carb is easier to work on if you're a bubba, because all you need to know to get it running and driving is muh jets, but accurate and precise tuning is where EFI really shines. Precisely metering under all load conditions, automatic adaptation to changing altitude and temperature, not to mention closed loop operation for optimal fuel economy and emissions control.

>>13936546
Possibly. When tuned correctly and with the right jets, it can deliver better response in theory. However, you would suffer from fuel starvation unless you ran a very different jet for the top.

>>13936546
ITBs give you the same throttle response as individual carbs.

>>13936546
You'd have to do a back to back test to know for sure, and I don't think anyone has done that, anything else is pure conjecture. The throttle response cars with ITBs have leads me to think that it's not likely that any type of carb would improve it.

>>13936532
The difference between port injection and DI mileage is really rather minimal. On the topic of regularly cleaning the entire intake side of the engine from EGR valve onwards: Is this being done by anybody? How can it be done on the head so that soot doesn't fall in chunks into the combustion chamber? AFAIK it is only done to the car that are completely restricted because of buildup, that have ruined valve guides and have been running with less than 70% of the inlet diameter available for the last 50k.

>>13936565
>The difference between port injection and DI mileage is really rather minimal.
That's a nicely argumented statement there, buddy.

In reality, there's quite a big difference in both performance and gas mileage. DEFI engines can run quite a bit leaner when there's little load on the engine, making for a very economical package.

>>13936546
I think it's more to do with the fact that you can't possibly make a carb with a slower throttle response. I believe most cars with FI and throttle by wire that seem slow to react are this way to make them safer when a normie decides to punch the gas mid corner, and to make them feel more comfortable. I know that they throttle response on mt my cbr250r is immediate above 5krpm, and below it it feels a bit shit I believe because of the discrete nature of a single cylinder engine, meanwhile my mom's 1.4l kia feels like some 12l i6 pig with all the inertia the engine seems to have.

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>>13936421
it's cheaper to buy a 750cfm carb used for like 50$, a 25$ rebuild kit with jets, and slap it on your built engine than buying a 1300$ aftermarket TBI unit, or adopting a TPI system to a small block. and unless you are running DI, you won't get any performance benefit from running EFI at WOT.

>>13936550
>unless you ran a very different jet for the top.
I have been investigating carbureted turbo set ups some have a bypass system that kicks in under above boost threshold
there is also something like this for very high boost fuel injected set-ups but it is just a larger injector

single point fuel injection with the distributor acting as a crank position sensor is about the worst idea I have at the moment

>>13936402
>Meanwhile, in my nice turbocharged injected car, it wouldn't give a shit until we start talking literally 40,000 feet+.
Except if you get up to 10,000 feet, the turbo will be spinning at half a million RPM trying to maintain manifold pressure and will shit its fins down the intake.

>>13936606
TBI is shit, so of course carbs will come out on top when you compare them.

>>13936628
>Except if you get up to 10,000 feet, the turbo will be spinning at half a million RPM trying to maintain manifold pressure and will shit its fins down the intake.
That's not true. And what's your point?

>>13936606
Can't you just bolt on an LS manifold?

>>13936658
No, different pattern.

>>13936363
>id much rather have carbs on my car, than 40+ vacuum lines, 8 spark plugs, electronic advancing distributor.

You've basically described 70s and 80s carbureted cars aside from the fuel rail.

Also dashpots everywhere.

>>13936437
>>13936458
>>13936531
These people don't like cars .

They like status
Shutting in carbs is something an ignorant asshole would do, only a rich teen with a backwards baseball cap would do this

>>13936682
Not only does your broken english barely make sense, but nobody can decipher your point.

>>13936688
Learn to read kiddo

>>13936624
Most of the guys I know that run blow through set ups just run moderate (10-18lbs) of boost and run a very rich WOT mixture to keep everything from grenading. That's why I'm using nitrous as a power adder and using a supplemental injector in the spacer plate.

>>13936656
Can't post a real response because hurr durr spam filter, but you're wrong.

Thanks for reducing me to this level of discourse, moot.

>>13936682
>other people don't shit on EFI and love carbs like you
>you just resort to saying they don't like cars

Ha!
Moron.

Carbs are fine, for their time. EFI is better. My bike has carbs, I like it just fine, my car wouldn't be able to do what it does if it weren't fuel injected. Since I tuned both of them myself, and tune them for a living, I think I know more about them than you, and I'm fairly certain I do like cars.

>>13936696
Show me turbos exploding because the car or plane is at 10,000ft. Make my day, prove your assertion.

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>>13936320
mechanical fuel injection
like mercedes had
you can see the pump on the left side

>>13936695
Just use water to cool the charge instead of more fuel. It does the same thing except much better, and as an added bonus it falls from the sky.

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>>13936701
Does this make sense? The horizontal lines are compressor speed.

>>13936505
another protip:
MFI != mechanical fuel injection

>>13936703
It doesn't have to do with the charge temperature. They are using extra fuel to prevent a lean burn condition at full boost so the pistons don't get melted.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0803phr-57l-hemi-engine-build/

Specific instance to answer the question, but I'm planning to put a carb on my Challenger. It's a substantial improvement over the stock EFI and its a cheaper upgrade. I've got more experience with carbs and I like the ease of mechanical tuning over needing to do computer work with EFI.

All said, though, there's a reason guys put EFI on big blocks to run at the quarter. High quality systems work better than Carbs in general.

>>13936717
14.6 AFR is still rich. They're dumping fuel in to cool the intake charge, keeping it from spontaneously combusting before the spark plug fires.

>>13936718
i'm leaning towards efi and computer timed spark if only for knock mitigation

>>13936716
Yes it is.
MFI = mechanical fuel injection
MEFI = multipoint electronic fuel injection

>>13936511
Some are now realizing that port injection does have benefits at certain RPM's in addition to keeping the valves clean and are releasing dual injection units. VW's latest TSI (the 2.0 at least) has it and I believe at least one other manufacturer does as well.

>>13936714
You aren't doing what I asked. Everyone here knows how to read a compressor map. Now show me factual proof of your assertion, which was that your turbo will explode at 10,000ft because it will overspeed.

>>13936735
The valves only get dirty because of EGR. Either get rid of EGR or burn alcohol and the problems all disappear. Water injection would also do the trick. Stratified charge is just more effort than it's worth.

>>13936714
You're deflecting. You just told me that turbos explode at high altitudes because they spin too fast while trying to make up for the lower air density, a compressor map doesn't prove your point.

>>13936724

I wouldn't recommend most people willing put a carb on a modern engine. It's all kinds of retarded to take, for instance, a LS7 and slap a carb on it. The engine has a very efficient fuel delivery system and a carb would ruin the tuning.

The 5.7 Hemi is a good engine, but it's got some low quality parts on certain models. The Challenger R/T is sort of a catch all for this. It's got dog leg exhaust manifolds, outdated EFI from the Magnum, and an intake box pulled straight from the pre-facelift Rams.

My particular situation makes a Carb seem like a good idea. In all likelihood, I will wind up with EFI again once I'm able to do more serious engine work. A Carb won't be useful with a Stroke and a Supercharger.

>>13936747
17 PSI = 2.2 PR at sea level = 2.7 PR at 10,000 feet = compressor overspeed for that turbo. Better?

>>13936757
You're pointlessly speculating. Show some proof that what you're saying will happen in theory actually does happen.

>>13936761
Well shit, let's just take something engineered to spin at 100,000 RPM +/- 50,000 RPM and then double that and see what happens. I'm sure there's nothing bad that could possibly happen. Except, you know, fin to housing contact from bearing failure, shaft flex, heat expansion, etc, etc.

>>13936764
You're still just saying this happens when it actually doesn't. Show me some proof that turbocharged cars are experiencing turbo failures at 10,000ft.

>>13936764
>>13936757
So you pull a compressor map out of your ass, put out an arbitrary pressure ratio, and by some half-assed and probably wrong math you tell me that my compressor will self destruct if I take my car to 10,000ft because your hypothetical example might?

You realize you can severely overspeed a turbo just by popping an IC coupler off, right? And that people do it all of the time and it rarely causes the wheel to fly apart? You realize that unless there's an imbalance, it's very unlikely that a compressor wheel will fail just because it crossed the threshold of rated RPM, because there is a fairly large safety margin built in?

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tfw Bonneville salt flats are 4,219 ft above sea level
must be annoying for the people that go there

>>13936440
>76 mm bore
Faggot

>>13936345
People who would like to know which is better for their car
Faggot

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look how simple mfi is
a dream come true for the real man to tune

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mfi on a 302

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There's no upside to carbs in 2015
.
You can get megasquirt for $200 and map your ignition and fuel for literally any and every situation, on the fly, 2000x a second, at 16 bit resolution.

Even a used carb costs double or triple that.

To convert your car to crank fire ignition with megasquirt fuel and ignition control will cost probably half of a couple of sidedraft carbs and will majorly out perform it.

Another plus is that EFI doesn't wear out, it doesn't need to be cleaned, it doesn't need to be jetted every time you go to a different track, or the same track in different conditions.

it's superior in every way that something can be other than nostalgia or period correctness.

>>13936748
PCV also contributes to the degenerate filth that accumulates in your intake.

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>>13936885
sometimes carbs look prettier

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>>13936892
and efi on a porsche
see, less pretty but they tried

this is apples to apples

>>13936320
Injection, but carbs are cheaper make go fast.

>>13937016
>carbs are cheaper
i don't think so tim
set of side drafts, manifold, and linkage is like $2k+

I prefer carburetor on my diesel.

>>13937018
>>13937016
Not to mention hundreds of dollars in jets and needles required to tune it. EFI is free to tune if you do it yourself.

>>13936320

Injection is better. Carburetors are cooler, cheaper, prettier, funner, easier, and more appropriate for older muscle engines.

So basically both choices are perfectly valid.

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>>13937031

>>13937038
damn the cummins is a hell of a lot smaller than the stock engine

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>>13936885
a mega squirt is 200 maybe, but injectors, the manifold, air filters, o2 sensor and tuning time make it a hell of a lot more time.

I don't think most people get that you can pick up a carb and manifold for less than 200.

>>13937018
it depends on the motor. a 750 cfm 4160 costs nothing.
>this is expensive though

>>13937064
lol wat
the one in your photo is
>$5,595.00
>$65.00 Shipping


such a deal bro

>>13937081
link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321909224989

sure it would be cheaper to scrounge up 4 used carbs and set them alike, but come on FE parts are always rape

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>>13937081
those carbs are more than a decent 11 or 12 second mustang lol.

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>>13937084
yeah so why did you post an FE engine.
no FE engine parts are cheap.
i have seen bare side oiler blocks sell for 6 grand

>>13937064
>you can pick up a carb and manifold for less than 200.
Yeah maybe a shit one.

>hell of a lot more time.
yeah time but not money

efi will absolutely trounce a single downdraft carb.
the only reason to use one is looks or being period correct.
if youre at all concerned with performance efi is a no brainer tbqh family.

chevy 350 carb kit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-Chevy-48IDA-Weber-kit-w-manifold-linkage-4-genuine-48-IDA-webers/271395945065

>$3,395.00

i think you can get a very very good efi system for that money

>>13937038
Is that a 4bt?

>>13937127
yes
in a jeep. it looks so cute compared to the 4.0

>>13937081
Learn to read, he said that set is expensive.

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>>13937140
damn missed the green text on my lappy

anyway i already mentioned MFI, and once you get into boosted setups using MFI strange and wonderful things happen.

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>>13937169
you can see the injection pump on the right
once you master MFI, you can tune anything

>>13937178
mfi isnt any more complicated than a carb. it's basically just a floatless continuous pump carb (which also exist).

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mfi is the best of both worlds

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>>13937194
its also rpm and temperature compensated which a carb is not

so instead of a computer, you have reliable clockwork

>>13937213
if by best you mean worse in every possible way since it's no better than a carb other than not suffering starvation, then yes.

>>13936815
What's wrong with that bore? It's exactly the same as a fireblade

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>>13937231
of course its better
otherwise why did so many euro cars use it?

>>13936361
>>13936343
Primarily because of the LATENT HEAT OF EVAPORATION

>>13937273
It's just a complex carb that happens to be run by a cam rather than vacuum. they are also expensive and annoying to rebuild.

they are interesting relics, but nothing more.

>>13937273
because euro cars have a tendency to be overengineered as shit?

>>13936789
This is why you inject before the throttle body, or at the very least use an extremely fine atomizing nozzle.

Holley > Edelbrock

Also how do carb sizes work? whats the difference between a 350 and 750?

>>13938026
Literally what are you talking about. The compressor is first of all upstream from and second of all really far away from the injectors.

>>13938069
cfm

>>13938069
The number rates the cubic feet of air per minute the carb flows at 1.5 in. of mercury on a manometer.

Too small and you'll limit power, too big and you'll lose throttle response and drivability.

>>13938069
>>13938069
350 vs 750 is a measure of CFM, or cubic feet per minute of air. 750 is over twice as much air into the engine as possible.

>>13938104
That turbo sure looked like it had been used in a draw-through carb setup.

>>13938069
Depends. I'd have a Edelbrock Performer 750 over a Holley Single Pump 750. Double pumper is definitely better, but I'm going quickfuel or demon.

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>>13938391
i hate carters

>>13938429
I'm not a huge fan, but they are good in dual quad applications where length matters. The HDP is far superior, but once again, I'm going Quickfuel or Demon this time.

>>13938429
>Distributor
>Carbs
I MEAN COME ON

>>13938461
>He has to pass emissions and doesn't like tuning with a $50 timing light but can't afford a $2000 scanner for his OBD shitbox.
>laughinggirls.jpeg

>>13936320
i prefer carburetors.
they are simple, and reliable. Thats it, and all i care about.

fuel injection is way superior for performance, and thats about it.


If i was building a hobby track car 100% guaranteed that im doing carburated. None of that electrical nonsense and factory locked down programming bullshit, no aftermarket ecu, no computerized tuning, nothing extra to worry about going wrong.
I just sit down, do some simple math, put the right sized jet in the carburetor and drive.

>>13938503
Idk man. I have megasquirt and ford EDIS and I'd never go back. I gained like 20hp just from switching to electronic ignition and fuel.

Perfect starts, better mpg, more power, and self tuneable.

it's not as pretty, but it runs like raped ape.

>>13938519
to me, carbs are simple and reliable.

i have had nothing but electrical gremlins and heartache with modern fuel injection setups.

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Dis

>>13936885
That's true

I did it the same afternoon I installed my $200 LS

>>13938104
>Literally what are you talking about. The compressor is first of all upstream from and second of all really far away from the injectors.
You're literally retarded and talk like a teenage girl. That damage is probably from water/meth injection upstream of the turbo, which is why you inject downstream of it.

>>13938121
HIGHLY doubtful. Fuel from a carb is atomized much too well to damage the blades.

carbs are inconsistent throughout the seasons and in note-able elevation changes
>my bettle ran too rich and blew fire balls in laradice, wy (~7000ft), timing advanced to shit
>in denver, co (5500ft) ran like gold

man the old guys running the webers sound glorious

Injection for efficiency.

Carbs for simplicity.

trying to argue anything else is like coming to /o/ and expecting intelligent conversation.

>driving along road that's been worked on
>bang engine bottom on now uneven railroad crossing
>engine stalls
>won't idle without pedal held on a bit
>roll into parking lot
>break out pliers and screwdriver
>10 minutes later I'm running again

Not sure what happened, but adjusting the mixture and idle speed (literally only 2 of 3 things you can adjust quickly on my lawnmower tier carb) and it ran fine again, still runs fine now as well.

Any possible explanation why an impact to the bottom of an engine would mess up the idle would be appreciated though.

>>13940451
>Carbs
>Simple
You realize that DCOE/IDF style carbs are incredibly rare, even among Webers, right? Most carbs are clusterfucks of vacuum advance and electronic chokes that you have to disassemble to make even the most minor AFR adjustments.

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>>13940497
DCOE isn't that rare. but there are like 2 companies that still produce them

Carbs would survive an emp blast and efi won't.

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>>13940497
I have an autolite 1100, it is so fucking simple I could rebuild it with a flathead and a crescent wrench. seriously mate, other than those weird 80s computer controlled carbs, they are fucking simple as shit as long as you know the physics behind them.

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>>13940497
>Most carbs are clusterfucks of vacuum advance
so glad you posted, we really needed your experienced based contibution

Injection because common rail

>>13940722
>Carbs would survive an emp blast and efi won't.
now all you have to do is wait for an emp that will never come
>EMP testing is a regular occurrence in my area

>>13936527
I do have to agree about that hybrid carb/efi setup, what makes it different from a true EFI setup? Like on a Ford 302 for example, I have one from a Ford explorer thats in a Early bronco that I've been considering switching, I have the parts for the factory EFI with a few exceptions but it looks more complicated than the Holley or edelbrock hybrid. I'm assuming it has to do with the injectors, but I'm not sure what else.

>>13940497
Weber literally produces brand new DCOEs..

And vaccuum advance has nothing to do with fuel management.

And you don't adjust the choke more than once. It's a set and forget thing.. that is the venturi (also called a choke) not the throttle body choke that's used for starting the car.

And to tune a carb regardless of the type of advance or choke mechanism you just replace jets (takes 5 minutes).

You're right that they aren't any simpler than EFI, but you don't actually know what you're talking about so its kinda moot.

>>13940467
It's common for carbs to either flood or starve depending on which way the fuel sloshes in the float during hard cornering, negative g, rumble roads, etc.

That's why race cars and race bikes with carbs sometimes remove the float and run a continuous double fuel pump system kind of like mechanical injection so it never starves or floods.

>>13939844
Why the fuck would you run water or meth that far upstream.

>you're literally retarded
nah

I can't find any hard data on the benefit of pre-compressor injection vs pre intercooler. All I'm seeing is a bunch of hondaforum tier word of mouth shit.

wheres the data

Found it

>Pre-compressor injection offers a host of benefits. In a nutshell, injecting water (and ideally a few other miscible fluids of high specific heat capacity) pushes the compression from adiabatic to near isothermal. This is way more efficient (up to 30%).

So it has nothing to do with detonation it's all about increasing isothermal compression. Pretty neat t.b.h.

still can't be fucked to deal with water injection though

I preferred carbs on single cylinder bikes, but injection for any more than that.

I don't mind adjusting/cleaning one, but I can't be doing with tuning and synchronizing 4 of them.

>>13941239
pre turbo water/meth is a thing. a good thing too, if it wasn't for wheel erosion

Not even drag cars are running carburetors anymore. The age of carburetors is over kiddo

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>not having mechanical fuel injection

I bet you faggots use electricity to open your windows as well.

>>13941239
>Why the fuck would you run water or meth that far upstream.
Because it's easy.

>>13941327
you use electricity to run your car faggot

>>13941792
Air start mechanical injected diesel engine master race. Electricity is for pooftas.

>>13941791
yet doesnt provide the benefits of typical water injection

>>13941803
yes it does

>>13941803
Yes it does. It improves compressor efficiency too. How do you think it doesn't provide the benefits? Are you just talking out of your ass or did you read that somewhere like honda forums?

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>>13936480
>Direct EFI > multi point (port) EFI

Why not both?

>>13936422
More like no one wants to spend over a grand on EFI then spend hours tuning the system for it to barely out perform a bolt on carb.

Injection is more efficient, but requires a computer, which in turn requires a computer to tune it. Carbs can be hand adjusted to fit the application but are far less efficient. I would take Fuel injection because I can afford to have it dyno tuned when I add mods to it. Both are good and create power, and carbs are a low budget favorite. they are as such for a good reason. You dont need a computer to make a carb go fast. With that said, Ill stick with my fuel injection

>>13942514
>You dont need a computer to make a carb go fast
You still need a computer to get the most out of a carb, you've gotta datalog that shit and put it on a dyno. If you tune it by ear and smell like Mullet Bubba you'll get Mullet Bubba results. It's a flat out fabrication to say you can get good results from a carb just because it isn't 100% necessary to use a dyno and a wideband to get it running. You can slap on a DIY fuel injection setup and get it running and driving in a couple of hours of fiddling without taking it to the dyno too but you'll get shit results.

>>13941815
The further from the valve you get the less it does to stop detonation. Pre-compressor injection mainly for compression efficiency. As soon as the air is saturated it will start to heat back up especially if you're still using an intercooler.

>>13939827
You're a fucking idiot.

Megasquirt 1 kit + harness kit, 02 sensor, map + intake = maybe $500 if you want to do it cheaply.

Still half the cost of a single DCOE setup.

It's not my fault you cant do basic math.

>>13942028
>Barely out perform
Loving Every Laugh

>>13945385
You are partly right dependent on application for $/HP

>>13945376
>weber
nice cherrypick, nigger

A brand new street holley is ~$350

>mfw /o/ thinks automatic transmissions are better
>mfw now they think carburettors are actually practical over EFI
kill me

is this really a thread?
fucking look this shit up! everyone knows EFI makes more power than a carb but EFI is harder to tune!

just STFU stop blowing up this thread with nonsencial bullshit

one can start in the cold and the other is a carburetor.

>>13946789

Then why is "convert to carb" usually the first step for making more power on shitboxes?

To be honest you have it backwards. A carb with a good, tall intake manifold will make more power than regular EFI (not direct injection). But it will be finnicky, harder to tune, get worse mileage, have a narrower power band, and not work the same in different weather.

>>13936320
I'm a motorcycle mechanic. Unless you are afraid of an EMP pulse taking out your FI it is better in every way. However, all the other bullshit for emissions mucks it all up. I want an old pos truck from pre 75 so I don't have to deal with emissions. That means a carb so be it. Also, drain your god damn float bowl and fuel tank every time you ride your dirt bike so you don't have to clean the carb every time you want to ride it. Unless it's a daily rider carbs gum up really fast with e15 gas.

>>13946995
you're horribly wrong.

the only reason switching to a carb would make more power is if the carb has a bigger throttle body.

>Then why is "convert to carb" usually the first step for making more power on shitboxes?
It's not. That's something you've made up in your head.

>>13946110
im talking about actual good carbs, not downdraft autozone shit.

>>13941797
No glow plugs? That must be fun this time is year.

>>13936892
underrated post, I hadn't thought about that.

>>13947623
Is there any logical reason why you would fucking say that post is underrated? Has anybody expressed any kind of dissatisfaction or criticism at all against it? Are you delusional? Are you reading replies that are nonexistant? Maybe you come from communities with voting systems, but there is literally no way that you could know what other people think of that post you just replied to here. Maybe it's psychological. Maybe it's your own post you're replying to, like a 12 year old fucktard liking his own facebook posts thinking his swelling autism is going unnoticed. Maybe your self esteem depends on you tricking yourself into thinking someone out there thinks your post is worth something. Or maybe you are just a retard, the worst kind of retard, the one who thinks he's smart, the one who thinks he's the only one to have gotten the joke, to have understood the post. Well, guess what, faggot, that post is by no definition underrated so why don't you do the world a favour and go check out what the bottom of your toilet smells like?

>>13948031
lol nice pasta bro

Mechanical fuel injection. You get the worst of both worlds

>>13948048
or an electronically controlled carb

>>13946995
>Then why is "convert to carb" usually the first step for making more power on shitboxes?
wut
It's usually "convert to turbo"

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>>13948050
Oh lord. Now it gets tricky.

>>13947618
Two types of diesel, m8. Direct injection and indirect. Both have been around forever, indirect uses a pre-ingition/compression chamber and needs glow plugs, but is a quieter, more refined engine. Direct doesn't need plugs, and it's more fuel efficient. But it is noisier. An old direct injection, air started diesel will start without a single volt.

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>>13947618
>Implying it gets cold enough in the sickest cuntry in the world.

>>13948170
God damn even without your flag as a badge of honour, you cunts shitpost till you're brown in the face.

>>13948170
>completely irrelevant white trash island

>>13948436
This is shit posting.

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EFI all day everyday

way more simple to work on

>>13936424
Lexus fixed the DI problem by using DI and MPFI

>>13950605
I'm wondering if more manufacturers will do this or if they'll just let the dealers milk intake cleaning services for that $$$. It's such a simple solution, run a few extra injectors, or even just one extra injector right behind the throttle body, that only is active during cruise or WOT, and avoid all of the buildup problems.

I've seen some seriously clogged up intake ports on direct injection cars in the past few years and some of them are very labor intensive to clean. Then a cylinder head comes in that is off of a port injection car that runs water/methanol injection and holy shit is it clean!