RT Implicated in US Election Meddling

>Though the network is owned and operated by the Russian government, its executives say their journalists are independent. One anchor, however, quit her job during a live broacast in 2014, after saying she could no longer work for a network that “whitewashes the actions of Putin.”

>In the United States, RT America is broadcast by cable companies in some cities, is carried by Dish, the satellite television provider, and can be found free online. Larry King, the former CNN host, and Ed Schultz, a former MSNBC host, both have programs on the network.

>The role of RT in the Kremlin’s effort to influence the election is covered in more detail than any other part of Russia’s campaign in the report, released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Friday.

>According to the report, the network aggressively uses the internet and social media to conduct “strategic messaging for the Russian government.” RT videos receive more than one million views a day on YouTube, according to the report, and the network’s programming was “aimed at undermining viewers’ trust of US democratic procedures.”

>The report’s assessment of RT is an awkward development for Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s nominee for national security adviser. General Flynn has appeared repeatedly on RT’s news programs, and in December 2015 the network paid him to give a speech in Russia and attend a lavish anniversary party, where he sat next to Mr. Putin. General Flynn has since defended that speech, insisting that RT is no different from CNN or MSNBC.

>Mr. Trump also appeared on Mr. King’s program, “Politicking,” during the campaign.

>On Friday, Margarita Simonyan, the editor in chief of RT, posted a message to Twitter that mocked the American report.

>“Aaa, the C.I.A. report is out!” she wrote. “Laughter of the year! Intro to my show from 6 years ago is the main evidence of Russia’s influence at US elections. This is not a joke!”
...

>Analysts say Russia lacks the economic and military power to combat NATO, the European Union or the United States directly. The country has instead invested in “weaponized” information, using hacking, propaganda and other means to sow doubt and division in other countries. The goal is to weaken cohesion among Western allies, stir discord in their domestic politics and blunt opposition to Russia.

>Last year, Swedish authorities said they traced to Russia a disinformation campaign when Sweden was considering cooperating militarily with NATO.

Russian intelligence agents used a variety of means to spread misinformation. “We mean everything from internet trolls to propaganda and misinformation spread by media companies like RT and Sputnik,” Wilhelm Unge, a spokesman for the Swedish Security Service, said during a speech to that agency last year.

>In 2014, Russian news media produced multiple theories about the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine, blaming the C.I.A. and Ukrainian fighter pilots who had mistaken the airliner for the Russian presidential aircraft. Separate Dutch and Ukranian inquiries concluded that Russian-backed insurgents had accidentally shot down the plane with a missile they got from Russia.

>That same year, an RT America anchor quit during a live broadcast to protest the network’s coverage of Russia’s invasion and occupation of Crimea. “Personally, I cannot be part of a network funded by the Russian government which whitewashes the actions of Putin,” said Liz Wahl. Another anchor, Abby Martin quit some months after denouncing Russia’s incursion on air. “What Russia did was wrong,” Martin said.

>It is not clear how many people RT and Sputnik reach. The numbers released by the Broadcasters’ Audience Research Board in Britain for the week of the “Brexit” vote in late June, a week of particularly heavy TV watching nationwide, for example, showed it had 926k viewers, or 1.57 percent of the audience.

Flynn is right though. RT is state-run media of the Russian government, but then so is CNN in effect, the former is just open about its Putin fandom while the latter tries (and fails) to hide its constant Obama worship.

This is all they can muster? "The Russians did the same thing we were doing, but they succeeded, it's not fair!" How many reports do we get on the meddling of Qatari-run Al Jazeera by chance?

>>98241
This isn't the only country the Russians do this in.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/01/09/russia-engineered-election-hacks-europe/96216556/

>>98293
And? You think the BBC, Al Jazeera or American news outlets stay firmly within their borders and aren't directed to sway opinions of foreign populations?

All I'm seeing is pouting and tantrums from those who're pissed that Russia played their own game better than they did this time around. And to make matters worse, they're behaving just like Putin in desperately trying to direct internal discontent to outside foreign actors to save themselves from the public's antipathy.

>>98305
>this time around
You're acting like this has happened before to a US election. It hasn't. You're also pretending that Putin didn't give a specific instruction to carry out this organized COINTELPRO-style disinfo campaign, which he did.
>They're behaving just like Putin in desperately trying to direct internal discontent to outside foreign actors
They're not desperately trying to do anything but find out to what extent the election was influenced by a foreign power.

What happened was exactly like The 1972 Watergate Break-in. DNC files on their candidates' opposition research were taken from a virtual "file cabinet" and slowly leaked to the media, except this time it was digital and a foreign president first ordered it instead of an American one.

Nobody gives thought to whether or not the information stolen from the DNC file cabinet in 1972 was valuable to the RNC and nobody remembers what it actually said. But undoubtedly it did affect the 1972 election. It matters much more the fact that there was a burglary of a political party and who was responsible, not the content of the information. The same is true today with this situation. The only difference is that instead of a sitting president trying to get files on his political enemies, it's even more dangerous with The Russians trying to favor a candidate they think is anti-NATO in an election.

>>98310
Both of the political parties are considered corrupt enough that nobody cares like they did back then. The GOP and Democratic party are viewed as empty vessels for open corporatism that objectively hurts most Americans and that's bred antipathy and an unrepentant sense of vigilantism.

The sad fact is, everyone would be on that page and agreeing this was a bad precedent, if the major parties in America weren't considered bigger evils than Russia by the American people. Russia might have exploited this sentiment, but the reason it exists at all rests squarely on the American government and the parties that form it.

And no, the people pretending to care about this loudly through media outlets aren't the heroes or the speakers of truth going unanswered. They're partisan hacks who would have had nothing to say if it had happened to the RNC. Some might have even openly gloated about it the same way major media outlets have been doing in the past when it came to dismal Republican prospects.

Russia only gets away with this because Americans and Western Europeans watch their own governments crack down on the citizens they're supposed to protect and speak for by instead valuing the sake of wage-depressing foreign immigrants and vampiric supranational conglomerates.

Russia found a hole the US and Europe had already dug. No amount of blaming the Russian digger is going to fix the problems they created and refuse to confront.

>>98230
We've gone from "Russia hacked the election" up to "Putin personally hacked the election", back down to "Russia hacked the election", down to "Russia may have influenced the election by hacking the US and helping Wikileaks" down to "Russia may influenced the election."

The "Russia-Wikileaks" connection fell apart immediatley as it was pushed, especially when Wikileaks threatened to sue CNN for libel/slander. Maybe because pushing that narrative will only end up revealing Seth Rich as the source that handed Wikileaks the data in the DC park, and tat he was subsequently killed for it.

The "intelligence report" basically adds up to "Russia may have paid online trolls to sway voters on the internet, the code used to phish Podesta like the silly idiot he is is an old open source Ukrainian code and Ukraine is like Russia so it was Russians, Russian media was running stories that made Hillary look bad which is meddling and makes us butthurt"

At best, Russia is guilty of engaging the same practices the DNC did. Paid online trolls, using influence from foreign media and government to show support for their chosen candidate, and underhanded tactics used to mudsling and frame their opponents. This continues to devolve into the most pathetic "investigative outrage" exercise in tu quoque I've seen in recent memory, spurred on the Democratic establishment desperate to use it's last few days of power to figure out how it got played so badly.

>>98320
I totally agree. Public trust (in the US) was rocking that 70-80% range until Vietnam. Then, Reagan and Clinton slowly started building it up, and by the end of the 90s, it was around 50%. Then Bush took a sledgehammer to it with the Iraq War, dropping it to historical lows where it has sat ever since.

Despite all this, it wouldn't be wise to let an expansionist, nuclear armed authoritarian regime off the hook. I still have more trusts in the West then I do in a country that has invaded its neighbors, lied about said invasions as they were happening, and then later owned up to it after they were through with a "Yeah, what are you going to do about it."

Contrary to what some make it out to be, this isn't a left or right thing. Russia has had connections to leftist groups like 5SM in Italy, and Calexit here, anything to undermine the powerblock of the West. I'm not saying eat up the propaganda our governments put out, but just be cognizant that there is someone else with an anti-West bias trying to manipulate you. You should be as skeptical of anti-state rhetoric as you are of state rhetoric.

>>98325
The fact that the McConnell initially tried to cover up our intelligence agency's info on Russian involvement leads me to believe that there was actually something going on.

I don't think the emails alone are actually that big of a deal or really helped sway the vote that much, but taken with everything else Russia has done and it shows a pretty disturbing trend.

>>98329
>but taken with everything else Russia has done and it shows a pretty disturbing trend.
Nothing the DNC hasn't done 10 fold, or the RNC isn't capable of/already done as well.

Stop hamming it up man.

>>98344
Uh, what part of "You should be skeptical of all sides" is bad? Why are anti-government or Russian rhetoric so much more trustworthy that it should be automatically assumed to be correct?

>They hacked the election because they didn't report on how Trump is a sexist racist homophobic islamophobic baby-raper nazi facist ultra-hitler.
Liberals.

>>98386
It's a good thing nobody anywhere actually said the things you're alleging "liberals" supposedly did.

>>98388
You don't think we could find examples of all of those (except ultra-hitler, I suppose)?

>>98397
Of course you could find examples, but the twitter-centric SJWs who are the ones actually saying those things don't matter outside of social media and don't represent the views most liberals.

To pretend that all liberals look to the twitterati for their worldview is like saying Richard Spencer's "alt-right" white nationalist group represents the views of most Trump supporters and republicans, which is of course, patently false and ridiculous.

>>98230
What a fucking hoax. Never post nytimes articles again.

>>98420
Breitbart>RT>Daily Stormer>Info Wars>NYT

>>98398
It's more based around tone. Most libtards broadly agree with SJWs and their safe spaces/shackling all whites, they just don't like their tone, just like most conservatives agree that establishing a white ethnostate and deporting/killing all the nonwhites and conquering more living space is a good idea, they just cringe at how much of a sperge Spencer is about it.

>>98431

I very much disagree with both your points, those are both extremist views that don't have traction outside of the shitholes of the internet. Anecdotally, I could personally ask a bunch of liberals and conservatives if they support those points and none would agree. In terms of proper polling, those viewpoints would not hold up at all (just look at immigration polls, mass deportation doesn't have that much support even with conservatives only).

>>98432
Polls don't really reflect reality. People are preasured/indoctrinated by society to give the answer the feel is socially acceptable, not the one they want. If we were to establish a Multicultural Marxist or Ethno-Fascist state, they'd go along with it.

>>98430
The NYT is the only legit news source on that list.

>>98420

Da comrade.

>>98310
>You're acting like this has happened before to a US election. It hasn't.
Right, and the millions of dollars Saudi Arabia has contributed to US political campaigns just started coming in this year- right?

>You're also pretending that Putin didn't give a specific instruction to carry out this organized COINTELPRO-style disinfo campaign, which he did.
laughingwomeneatingsalad.jpg

>They're not desperately trying to do anything but find out to what extent the election was influenced by a foreign power.
0%

>>98347
>Uh, what part of "You should be skeptical of all sides" is bad?
How skeptical are you of the intelligence communities currently under the direction of an outgoing President with a strong dislike for the President-elect?

>Why are anti-government or Russian rhetoric so much more trustworthy that it should be automatically assumed to be correct?
Amazing how you've just linked the two like that, as if they have anything to do with each other.

If by anti-government you mean Wikileaks, it's because they're more reliable and trustworthy than the government. They typically don't retract stories or apologize for falsehoods they published thinking they were true, because what they post is generally legit.

I'm not even sure what you mean by Russian Rhetoric other than Putin and the Russian Government mocking "Obama the Nobel Prize winner" for trying to start WW3 because Hillary lost.

>>98452

500 ₽ has been deposited into your account.

>>98447
*stuffs a burger down his throat*

>>98453
>500 ₽ has been deposited into your account.
Way to address my arguments.

>>98310
>not the content of the information.
yeah nah, democrat here and I disagree. Don't toe the line blindly, demand better from your party.
What really bites is that the RNC didn't get to suffer the same amount of leakage, and probably won't have to ever if they have any sense at all and actually learned something from the DNC's mistakes.

>>98468
You're missing the point and blaming the democrats for getting burglarized.

>>98452

Assange interview: http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2016/12/23/news/assange_wikileaks-154754000/
>These abuses have had a heavy impact in an open and democratic society like the United States and produced 'dissidents' like Chelsea Manning willing to expose them. Why aren't human rights abuses producing the same effects in regimes like China or Russia, and what can be done to democratise information in those countries?

>"In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs, and Kremlin critics such as [Alexey] Navalny are part of that spectrum. There are also newspapers like "Novaya Gazeta", in which different parts of society in Moscow are permitted to critique each other and it is tolerated, generally, because it isn't a big TV channel that might have a mass popular effect, its audience is educated people in Moscow. So my interpretation is that in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks, and no WikiLeaks staff speak Russian, so for a strong culture which has its own language, you have to be seen as a local player.

>...it it is a society that is authority-structured, which is terrified of dissidents, whereas if you compare it to Russia, it too is an increasingly authoritarian society, but one that has a cultural tradition of lionising dissidents".

Had a TV show with RT.

Directed/helped Snowden to Russia as Russia is just the greatest.

Says he has papers on Russia, but never releases them.

He would not publish the Panama Papers because they had leaks that damaged the credibility of elite Russians, calling the whole leak a "CIA operation," despite the leak implicating many Westerners/Americans as well.

Cutting mitigating footage in the Collateral Murder video.

And so on...


I don't think Assange started off as a Russian shill, but he became one overtime because "the enemy of my enemy" crap. In any case, we can't pretend that WL does not have a clear pro-Russia/anti-US bias in effecting things rather then being a neutral arbitrator of leaks.

>>98575
500 Burgers have been deposited to your bank account cyкa.

>>98575
Oh, also wanted to add that he cut a leak from Syrian Papers showing how Russia was paying off Assad while posting the rest of the leak.

Not to mention that Wikileaks loves to threaten legal action against anyone who calls them out.

>>98575
I believe Assange is sincere when he says he didn't get the leaks from the Russians. I find it curious, however, that he never seems to bring up the possibility of intermediaries.

>>98583
I applaud the Russians for hacking the Democratic National Committee. it shows how corrupt they are and how they were the ones who tried to influence the outcome of our presidential election.. They predetermined that Hillary Clinton was going to be the Democratic candidate. The FBI and the CIA should be seeking the Russians help to build a criminal case against the whole DemocRAT party. None of the democratic leaders denied authenticity of these emails. Every Bernie Sanders supporter and voter should demand an in-depth investigation of what the DNC did during the primary. Lawyers should be filing suits seeking damages for Bernie Sanders voters because of this corruption. Forget about the Russians it just a smoke screen that provided rotten Democrats with transparency.

>>98575
>Had a TV show with RT.
>Directed/helped Snowden to Russia as Russia is just the greatest.
>Says he has papers on Russia, but never releases them.
>He would not publish the Panama Papers because they had leaks that damaged the credibility of elite Russians, calling the whole leak a "CIA operation," despite the leak implicating many Westerners/Americans as well.
>Cutting mitigating footage in the Collateral Murder video.
[citation needed]

>In any case, we can't pretend that WL does not have a clear pro-Russia/anti-US bias
Yes we can, because you haven't proven anything.
Post facts, or don't make claims you can't back up

>>98583
>Not to mention that Wikileaks loves to threaten legal action against anyone who calls them out.
Probably because they don't like people publishing falsehoods against them, so they threaten legal action because it's the only thing the neocon cretins in government and the MSM can seem to understand.

>you guys are russian spies
>prove it or we'll sue you for slander/libel
>jk it was just a prank guys just speculation no worries

>>98575
Assange is more of human that you sold out subhuman will never even dream of becoming. He has shown that the West is the greatest evil to ever be in the world, and that we must establish an anarcho state if we are to have justice since we cann't be trusted with power.

>>98608
Liberal democracy is a flawed system. Only systems like Putin's conservative democracy work well at all. Just compare how many leaks and scandals our government has compared to Russia or China.

>>98611
AH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHA

>>98601
>Had a TV show with RT.

https://www.rt.com/tags/the-julian-assange-show/
https://www.rt.com/news/assange-wikileaks-russian-visa/
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/09/julian-assange-nobel-peace-prize

>Directed/helped Snowden to Russia as Russia is just the greatest.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-told-snowden-to-stay-in-russia-2014-5
https://www.rt.com/news/313829-assange-advise-snowden-russia/
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/29/julian-assange-told-edward-snowdon-not-seek-asylum-in-latin-america

>Says he has papers on Russia, but never releases them.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1026/WikiLeaks-ready-to-drop-a-bombshell-on-Russia.-But-will-Russians-get-to-read-about-it
http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/11/01/russias-fsb-to-wikileaks-we-could-destroy-you/

>He would not publish the Panama Papers because they had leaks that damaged the credibility of elite Russians, calling the whole leak a "CIA operation," despite the leak implicating many Westerners/Americans as well.

https://www.rt.com/news/338683-wikileaks-usaid-putin-attack/
Note that Snowden Supports PP: https://www.bustle.com/articles/151785-edward-snowdens-comments-about-the-panama-papers-were-the-right-call-from-the-whistleblower

Extra:
http://imgur.com/a/5a8u1
https://twitter.com/cjcmichel/status/757016594031730688
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-wikileaks-mole-20140106

Wikileaks plans to dox people they don't like:
https://archive.is/LFeG3
https://archive.is/DU3cm

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/credit-cards/leak-exposes-social-security-numbers-of-dnc-donors/

On whether or not to redact personal info to protect Afghan informers against the Taliban: “if an Afghan civilian helps coalition forces, he deserves to die.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-reportedly-outs-100s-of-afghan-informants/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7917955/Wikileaks-Afghanistan-Taliban-hunting-down-informants.html

>>98612
>>98611
The world ninety nine perceent of it knows the rancid America is behind the lies and propaganda on the Panama Papers they are the pioneers of it. While they like to portray themselves as perfect to the world . surrounded by a bunch of stars and stripe worshipping idiots one of the major ones being the English Caribbean and then you tell the truth and you are on file at the FBI as being a jihadist, the bastards you considered to be blood will disown you over this rancid pit of nothing , and you tell them the truth that they worship this nation so much and you get beaten to oblivion for saying the truth , just like America hates those nations who rightfully do not worship it and not comply with it and tells the truth about it and they get beaten as well this time bombed into oblivion. America is the most toxic in the world followed by their lap dogs who should rethink their associations. Lying low life country this America is a criminal and hypocriten

>>98619
These is what a CIA plant looks like.

>>98620
learn how sentences work

>>98589
This. I see a lot of lefty saber rattling in the wrong direction. No one wants to talk about the revelations of corruption and deceit in those emails. The same people screaming about the "Russian Hacker" are the ones who would have gladly voted Shitlery into the white house.

>>98628
>emails exposing corruption
>good

>letting Russia destabilize the West
>bad

Really, I think the private email server was a a bigger strike against Hillary. The emails didn't have that much of an effect, but giving Russia the go ahead to influence our, and our allies, elections, or letting them convince a dumb electorate to hate one another and the US so much that they'd want to do some political cleansing isn't really good for any state.

>>98633
Heres the deal. Russia is the good guy, and when Trump is president, he and Putin are going to deal with the liberal cities and then we'll have the last laugh!!!

It doesn't matter who hacked who. Western civilization and "liberal democracy" is corrupt and evil, and it's going to have to be torn down if we want to make a purer, more just, and less coddling world.

>>98622
Why? ENglish will not be the default language of the world/internet for very long more.

>>98612
>AH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHA

You still haven't answered why there's so much more corruption coming out of America compared to Russia. How many papers has WL published on the US and it's allies compared to Russia for instances?

>>98638
>there's so much more corruption coming out of America compared to Russia.

BWAHAHAHHAH Holy shit komrade they must have a good improv school there in Olgino!

>>98641
How many papers has Wikileaks published on Russia vs America? How much leaks in general has Russia had in comparison to America?

Why the hell are there so many pro-Russian /pol/tards on here?

>>98622
He's Russian, don't blame him.

>>98642

Reports of corruption indicate a society in need in improvement.

No reports of corruption indicate either a utopia or a corrupt state that's very good at suppressing leaks.

Now we all know utopias aren't real so...

>>98643
Russia plants shills in 4chan to attack anyone who critizes the country.
It's documented that there's a ProRussian troll army that might or might not work for the government.

It's quite North Korean-esque

>>98648
Yeah. They start a little wave going with some inflammatory or contrarian statement, then all the other kids jump onto it and start reposting variants of it elsewhere, create an atmosphere where it is acceptable, and boom, internet hivemind does the rest.

I see it all the time coming from /pol/. Most of them probably don't believe it, but there are enough who do.

>>98642

Assange has his own show on RT. It was widely assessed by the press and US intel agencies (obviously the latter are biased on this) that WL became financed largely by the Kremlin once its donation routes were cut off. Assange has every reason to not piss off Putin, and indeed in doing things like pushing Snowden to Moscow and calling Russia and Cuba "democracies", has been actively collaborating with him.

>>98649
It works on the left too. Just look at all the butthurt Bernie supporters in the comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcVucMq09j8&ab_channel=CNN

US clearly meddled in Russian pres. election in 2008, just not with hacking. Now USA is justifying its future crimes for public, soon hacking other countries will be ok.

Face it. Wikileaks is more trustworthy then our govt.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C121pCdUUAAakix.jpg:large

If people like them were our leaders, then America would be great.

>>98746
If only Assange didn't have a weekly show on RT.

>>98745
What?

>>98746
Wikileaks is liked more because it's the underdog slapping its dick in the face of a pretty dickish government. It all makes for a riveting story; however, if you dig deeper, you find out that the underdog is the front of another big bully.

>>98749
Yeah, and his Dad and the political party he set up visited Assad:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-31/wikileaks-meets-assad-in-syria/5180036

Why are normally skeptical people so trusting of Assange again?

>>98753
because people don't refute wikileaks documents. They try to clarify what they meant instead, eg Hillary attempted to "clarrify" and "correct" intentions of some of her leaked emails, rather than denying them outright.
Additionally, in the Podesta emails, there was sensitive personal information that was used to compromise Podesta's social media accounts. More so, Manning gave documents to wikileaks, and he's in prison now, and I do not believe he would be incarcerated for leaking false documents.
that is to say, there is more evidence confirming information leaked by wikileaks, than evidence disproving it.

>>98749
probably a shade upset at being confined to an Ecuadorean embassy by western governments for maybe the rest of his life.

Great poll. Twitter. So much science involved.

>>98293
Every country does this to every other country, that's how the world works.

Does anyone with a functioning IQ want to actually make the argument that the US hasn't been actively attempting, successfully and not, to undermine or alter the outcomes of elections in basically every country on the face of the Earth for as long as we've had the ability and interest to do so?

>>98850
I'll make the argument that no other country has ever hacked campaign emails in what was equivalent to a digital watergate break-in and then slowly trickled out those internal opposition research documents to the press over the course of the last 2 months of the campaign.

Few people alive remember today what the original Watergate documents said or if they truly effected the 1972 election, only that Nixon ordered them to be stolen. Putin is playing the role of Nixon in this situation.

>>98882
Podesta's email being broken into was a result of him being retarded, and his IT guy being equally retarded by accidentally telling him the phishing email was safe.

It's childish and they have no one to blame but themselves for their own incompetence.

>>98890
>was a result of him being retarded
He wasn't the one who fell for the phishing attack, the IT guy was. What source is telling you otherwise?

>>98890
>>98895
It doesn't matter who it is, it just shows me how poorly infosec is handled in these upper echelon places.

>Derp, user is asking if this is a legit email or not
>Doesn't properly vet out all provided links within and/or attachments in a controlled environment
>Derp it looks okay to me

>>98900
Nice goalpost moving, but it matters more who did this specific breach, what their motivation was, and if that's how the documents got to wikileaks. Nobody blamed the security at the Watergate hotel in 1972 for not catching burglars in the act of stealing those DNC files either.

>>98902
>Nice goalpost moving, but it matters more who did this specific breach, what their motivation was, and if that's how the documents got to wikileaks.

Politically, yes.

>>98902
>Nobody blamed the security at the Watergate hotel in 1972 for not catching burglars in the act of stealing those DNC files either.

In the IT world getting owned is your fault.

>>98906
>Politically
Who would have thought that election meddling would be a political story.

>In the IT world getting owned is your fault.
In the IT world, blackhats take credit for their exploits. This is spook tradecraft, not GeekSquad.

>>98907
>In the IT world, blackhats take credit for their exploits. This is spook tradecraft, not GeekSquad.

No not all of them do any more, especially if there is profit to be had. Also, Guccifier 2.0 took credit for waltzing into the Clinton Foundation Exchange server, not very tradecrafty.

>>98915
Guccifier 2.0 was "Fancy Bear"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0#Identity

>>98924
Yeah I'm versed on who they believe Guccifier 2.0 is (considering the original is in a jail cell somewhere). Not that they can prove it. The CF exchange server was set up using the default passwords. Any Microsoft Exchange admin worth his salt could bust into it. Not exactly the foot print of a nation state with hackers on steroids.

>>98926
>Any Microsoft Exchange admin worth his salt could bust into it. Not exactly the foot print of a nation state with hackers on steroids.

Your post reminded me of this old news story:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a19061/britains-doomsday-subs-run-windows-xp/

>>98927
lol. Yeah.

A lot of the systems in the West are so poorly protected it would be a large task to determine if a nationstate was involved. Look at Stuxnet, the timing, sophistication and complexity of that attack gave itself away. With poorly protected systems it doesn't take much work and thus leaves a much smaller footprint behind, if any.

Even if this whole thing is true and not just fabricated for the sake of crippling democracy and invalidating the views of over 60million Americans, its still complete bullshit since Russia has had their fingers on a lot of things in the past as they've explained in prior intelligence reports. They've claimed to have known about this yet never did anything during the election. Before this, the vote count was wrong and several leftwing organizations jumped on it despite heavy criticism. Sure enough, they were wrong and now they have a new tool to invalidate Trump's precidency with.

They're only afraid that the status quo might change if Trump's around long enough since he isnt being pulled by the same ol' strings. Can't wait for the left's propoganda machine to come to a halt.

>>99674
Yeah you nazis sure do love that comrade putin dick. It's weird but intellect and thought has never been your strong suit.

>>99713
Pretty much everyone i know voted trump. Seems to me the election results were accurate

>>99713
>pretending to be smart
>thinks nazis love communism
fag

>>99713
We'll be keking at you all the way to the Day of the Rope.

>>99717
What the fuck is the day of the rope anyways? I see some posters on /news/ mention it every once in a while.

>>99719
It's a /pol/tard fantasy, just like "the Furnace". Pay it no mind.

>>99719
The day of the rope is when communists kill masses of people for Jewish reasons.

White nationalists have an idea that there will be a dotr in their favor.

>>99719
It's the day when they drag "race traitors" (ie, liberals, half breeds, and other undesirables) out into the streets, torture them and their loved ones for fun/revenge, then hang them. Disemboweling before hanging is also common in their fantasies, probably because of this scene:

https://youtu.be/tgg-Fay2zzs?t=105

>>99713
>you nazis
>love that comrade...

This is why I abandoned most of the left, because it had already abandoned me by turning into a silly caricature of itself and its enemies.

>>99735
>because of this scene

Erm, no. Disembowelment and hanging have a much longer relationship than a mediocre thriller from the turn of the millennium. The movie itself makes noted reference to the Pazzi plot.

>>99719
Day of the rope means nothing more than "When we have power to get rid of you and make our dreams come true."

It's no different than a communist's pining for an eventual proletarian revolution leading to a society that magically and miraculously manages to not eat itself to death by becoming an authoritarian hellhole or the Islamist delusional idea of one world under an "enlightened," caliph making sure everyone keeps their knees bent in some unrealistically peaceful way.

You guys remember 2012?

>Romney is a relic of the past, the Russians are our friends! The cold war is over!

The Russians hacked the emails, they didn't write them, you could argue they did us a service.

>But they influenced the election!

It would have influenced an election no matter when the emails came out.

>>98230
>Making people more informed voters is meddling in elections

Even if the Russians did hack things, all it was, was essentially investigative journalism into fraud and corruption. Should be given an award for having the highest integrity.

>But muh biased investigative journalism
No one was stopping any of you from probing and doing the same to the RNC and the Right's servers.

This is why people think our media is fucked in the head, there's no investigative journalism, there's no investigation, period, it's all just peddling talking points regardless of information, it's all propaganda.

When was the last time you read an investigation piece that presented evidence for it's case? The only places I can think of that would provide evidence, is Wikileaks, which encourages for others to try and prove them wrong by presenting original documents to show their info is bad, and yet, no one has been able to prove them wrong.


I'd like to point out that Obama personally addressed the UK and threatened economic punishment upon them if they didn't vote how he wanted them to vote, regarding Brexit. That is what you call "A foreign leader manipulating an election.", he threatened them to do as he wanted.

>>98589
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/107th-congress/executive-report/3/1

We actually have laws that Allows for Russia and America to work together to investigate criminal matters.

Thanks Bill Clinton!

>>98902
>The sins shown are not the problem. The problem is that anyone dared reveal the sins

It shows your true values when you're more angry about being exposed for wrongdoings, than you are sorry for doing anything wrong.

>>100197
Remember when Comey said "No reasonable prosecutor would have brought charges?" Do you think he was lying?

The alleged "wrongdoings" didn't even actually happen most of the time so there was nothing to expose but fake news.

>>100204
http://www.vaskal.ca/podestafiles

>Do you think rich and powerful political elites are above the law?

Why yes, I do.

>>100209
>It's on vaskal.ca so it MUST be true!
Do you often let random canadian bloggers think for you??

>>100219
>Direct link to the source
>"It's a blogger's opinion piece!"


Come on faggot, use evidence, not feelings. I presented evidence, which Wikileaks has challenged people to debunk, and yet, Hillary, her whole campaign, Podesta himself, they didn't say "It's not true, it's edited, it's a forgery" they merely threatened WAR with Russia over it. They would rather spill the blood of the world than apologize for the contents, because they're true.

>>100222
It *is* a bloggers opinion piece, and there is very little difference between what wikileaks does, which your blogger linked to, and what buzzfeed did a few days ago.

>>100227
It's not a fucking blog, it's merely a compilation of emails assembled and categorized.

There are no opinions anywhere on this page.

The difference between buzzfeed and wikileaks is that wikileaks actually has a credible track record, and has outright challenged Podesta to prove them wrong. Neither Podesta, nor the Hillary campaign, have been able to challenge them, and haven't challenged them.

Are you retarded on purpose? Do you think a compilation of evidence is an opinion?

>>100230
Oh, and coupled with the evidence of these emails, the ones colluding with the media, actually being traceable and compared with the articles written after the dates of these emails, using the words they were told to use, is clear evidence that these are true, at the very least, the media collusion ones are true.

When she was pressed on the "Public and private opinion" email, she didn't deny it, she made up some bullshit on how she saw Lincoln do it in a movie and therefore it was good.

She fucking ADMITTED to most of these sins.

>>100231
Show me where they "threatened WAR with Russia". I'm tired of hearing infowarriors push this line.

>>100232
Hillary Clinton: “You’ve seen the reports. Russia’s hacked into a lot of things, China’s hacked into a lot of things. Russia even hacked into the Democratic National Committee. Maybe even some state election systems? So we gotta step up our game. Make sure we are well defended and make sure we are able to take the fight to those who go after us. As president I will make it clear that the United States will treat cyber attacks just like any other attack. We will be ready with serious political, economic and military responses.“

Was the first part of this, however, her comments about imposing a No-Fly Zone over Syria was where she doubled down with it.

WALLACE: Secretary Clinton, you have talked about — and in the last debate and again today — that you would impose a no-fly zone to try to protect the people of Aleppo and to stop the killing there. President Obama has refused to do that because he fears it’s going to draw us closer or deeper into the conflict.

And General Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says you impose a no-fly zone, chances are you’re going to get into a war — his words — with Syria and Russia. So the question I have is, if you impose a no-fly zone — first of all, how do you respond to their concerns? Secondly, if you impose a no-fly zone and a Russian plane violates that, does President Clinton shoot that plane down?

CLINTON: Well, Chris, first of all, I think a no-fly zone could save lives and could hasten the end of the conflict. I’m well aware of the really legitimate concerns that you have expressed from both the president and the general.

This would not be done just on the first day. This would take a lot of negotiation. And it would also take making it clear to the Russians and the Syrians that our purpose here was to provide safe zones on the ground.

But she then states in her emails, that such an action would "Kill a lot of syrians", contrary to her response.

>>100233
Sources since I ran out of room for links:

No Fly Zone would mean killing a lot of Syrians (And would also cause war with Russia)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927#attachments

Threatening a military response against Russian hackers (And mind you, she and the DNC ramped the hell up out of "Russian Hackers" and continue to do so today)
https://youtu.be/k4aIIpCDsLU

I know >MAINSTREAM METEOR but it includes the source video of her speaking those words.

>>100234
>Hillary
War with Russia/Iran

>Trump
War with China/North Korea

We're really stuck between a rock and a hard place, aren't we?

>>100238
China doesn't have friends and has less than a hundred nukes.

Russia has the most nukes in the world and has friends, while bordering a lot of our friends for easy land invasion.

I'd much rather pursue China, lots of people want a piece of China, and China's been actively aggressive, being as bold to claim all water up to Australia belongs to them.

Mind you, I'm not ignoring Russia eating it's neighbors as well, Crimea and Georgia, just, China doesn't at the very least pretend it's not being violently expansionist.

>>100233
>>100234
I'm sorry but I think it's hilarious you're basing your assumption of war off of a Fox News Sunday interview full of campaign rhetoric. That's on the same level as the tinfoilfags in 2008 who kept insisting that Obama was going to take all the guns.

>>100241
>She doesn't actually mean it even though she says it in her emails, in conferences, and in interviews

>>100239
>implying Russia would just sit their with a thumb up their ass if the US went into a hot war with China

It would be a great time for them to make some land grabs.

>>100245
I wouldn't doubt Russia trying to eat half of China for it's self, and maybe a nibble on Ukraine and Georgia.

>>100244
Screencapping this for when Trump's war with Iran starts so I can laugh at how they thought Hillary was a hawk.

>>100249
Trump starting shit does not make Hillary any less of a hawk.

Between the two, Hillary was outright calling for war and making threats, threatening No Fly Zones imposed over Russians and Russian allies, in an area where the Russians are entrenched with so much AA that nothing can move.

Your fucking politics have blinded you so much, you'd rather see millions die to "prove a point" than you'd rather see prosperity if someone you didn't like was the one who brought it.

If we're speaking logically and used our evidence, there was evidence of Hillary war hawking. There was some from Trump, but much, much less.

>>100249
https://youtu.be/t48MyL5QdAc

>Hillary declaring Iran her proudest enemy

And let's not forget her bloody history of war and bombings, supporting the Iraq war and giving it one of those votes that kicked it off.
Don't worry, I blame Bush too, I'm not some sort of neocon.

>>100252
>Between the two, Hillary was outright calling for war and making threats, threatening No Fly Zones imposed over Russians and Russian allies, in an area where the Russians are entrenched with so much AA that nothing can move.
Except that wasn't what she ever actually said. She always said she would have worked with the Russians to jointly apply the no-fly-zone and wanted to further the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons signed by Obama and reduce nuclear stocks on both sides from the current insane 1960s cold war levels. All hardly the talk of someone wanting to start WWIII. When you believe hyperpartisan canadian blogs like vaskal.ca though the confirmation bias fills in the gaps in what isn't known.
>There was some from Trump, but much, much less.
He's all but publicly assuring the Israelis we'll be at war with Iran within 2 years.

>>100258
>And let's not forget her bloody history of war and bombings
What history is this? Is this the part where you conflate Bill Clinton's and NATO's involvement (and the Russians BTW) with stopping ethnic cleansing in Serbia and Kosovo with what Hillary supposedly said and did?

>>100233
I'm no Hillary fan, but she is right in saying the USG has to do more than say NO loudly in response to cyber attacks.

Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much but it seems pretty evident that her intention is to have warning>sanctions>diplomatic means>>>>>>nukes as a means of responding to cyber attacks. And not make herself and the gov a punching bag as we come off now.

>>100261
>A list of evidence
>Hyperparisan

Come on man, drop the act, you don't actually give a shit about integrity or evidence, do you? You see a list of evidence, with links to the source of the evidence, with not a single word of opinion in the mix, and you scream "Hyperpartisan!" simply because it does not condone your thinking.

Would you have preferred if I simply linked the emails and not the handy compilation? Perhaps put it in a pastebin? Is Pastebin russian hackers that are biased?

>>100262
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/hillary-the-hawk-a-history-clinton-2016-military-intervention-libya-iraq-syria/

>>100265
>Come on man, drop the act
lol NO U
>You see a list of evidence
It isn't just list of evidence. It's a list of supposed charges contained within the leaks without any context of where they are taking about and how they (mis)interpreted what they believe the leaks say.

The title of the opinion piece is
>"The Most Revealing Emails from the #PodestaFiles, Separated By Category"
"Revealing" to whom? Because if it's Trump supporters looking for partisan attack lines based of false premises then that's what this is. A cursory look at the tinfoil twitter posts under the #PodestaFiles hashtag tell all a person needs to know.

>>100268
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/844

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/21/today-in-politics-rivals-can-no-longer-ignore-donald-trumps-long-shadow/?_r=0

>The media sending articles to Podesta first for approval and then publishing them after getting the OK isn't media collusion

All you have done is attack the source, and not the evidence. You've called it hyperpartisan over, at most, 2 words, and have played stupid and ignorant over the contents.

Revealing, as in, "Positions that the public did not know about until the leaks, REVEALING positions and or acts that the public were unaware of" which includes her contrary stances on her public opinions, including gay marriage, the TPP, wall street, Environmentalism, fracking, and much more.

Of course your second word is "Damaging", well, she lost didn't she? And plenty of people cited the contents of these emails as to why they didn't vote for her, so, I'd say it's fair to say these WERE damaging.

You've dismissed the entirety of the evidence merely over politics. You don't care if someone is harming you, or the rest of the American people, with collusion that a simple google search reveals to be true. You can do your own research, find a link to their article they sent to a reporter, or a reporter sent to them, compare them, google a line, and see if it comes up, and there you go,

Once more, Hillary did not deny the contents. She merely doubled down on trying to justify her own sins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgAUQfBOQnI

Something I've learned in my short life is that, you do not admit to sins you did not commit. You do not try and justify or rationalize a lie. Hillary, as a politician, must know this too. So why didn't she say "That's a lie"? Why did she immediately go towards fear mongering against the Russians, for EXPOSING her sins, instead of apologizing for her sins?

>>100339
I've seen this movie before. It doesn't matter what the content of the stolen files was, it matters who did the break-in and why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McIfL_U9jLk

>>100346
There's more evidence concerning Pizzagate than there is about Russian hacks.
But Liberals will only believe of these of course.
The other makes them rather uncomfortable.

>>100349
It's becoming difficult to tell the /pol/tards apart from the Russians now.

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/818439246214262784

>>100350
Oh fuck off man.

You're more angry about sins being exposed than you are about the sins.

You sound like these fucking Swedes that cry for the Muslim that rapes a 6 year old to death, but not the child, because it's "His culture and he;s scared in our oppressive society, and the real crime here is that someone exposed this and tried to press charges."

There's an extensive compiled list of evidence that crimes have been committed, from weapon trafficking to known suppliers of enemies of the US, to media collusion (Which you can investigate your truth and find that it is true by comparing articles and the evidence shown in the emails) which makes these, not only testable, but verifiable in their legitimacy, along with the campaign not denying these allegations.

All you've done is run circles around "Partisan" and wording, trying to pick at words rather than face evidence. There's a reason everyone is so fucking angry, and it's this fucking game that, not only you, but so many who think like you, continues to play in the name of politics. It's what makes hate grow inside of people, and grow closer and closer to the boiling point, where we elect someone like Trump.

I hope we're prosperous and the world becomes peaceful, just so you can rot with in your hatred for a very, very long time, unable to be happy while the rest of us regain our lost spirit and begin to dream again.

>>100374
The left knows their time is coming to an end, and they are full of fear. They are corrupt, weak, and spiteful; all that is evil and debased in this world. They masked their hatred behind "tolerance" and "acceptance," and in their hidden war with us, they'd stoop to any lows. They'd fund Muhammadans to harm us, import illegals to take our jobs and food from our families, poison our water with fluoride, and brainwash society through their iron grip on art and media, and our youth through educational facilities.

Their hatred of us was so raw that they'd utterly destroy themselves to ensure our demise. They silenced us, oppressed us, and sneered down at us from their high towers of glass. We were made to feel weak, powerless, and obsolete. However, a light shined upon the world. Trump came to us, and he saw our problems. He spoke for those without speech, and through him, gave power to the powerless. He sacrificed greatly for those who had not to sacrifice, and withered many scars for those with too many. He showed that the shrill shrieks of the liberals amounted to nothing, that they were just the pathetic and blubbering mewling of degenerate infants, like roaches scattering from sunlight. We need not fear the liberal, for we now could see them for what they were.

What we are witnessing right now are the first of the great spasms of this poisoned fruit from the Enlightenment. The left know that they are moribund, and they know that we, the wolves, have awoken and are encircling them on all sides, ready to rip viscera from their bowels.They know that this world has no use for them, and like the effete intellectuals they are, are attempting one last pathetic attempt to push back.

They will not succeed.

ah yes the russian conspiracy to conduct investigative journalism strikes again

"they released true, relevant information, which is wrong and fake news for some reason"

wew lad

>>100376
>Their hatred of us was so raw
Who the fuck is "us"?

>>100374
>>100376
Goddamn both of these are posts cringeworthy af.

>>100385
Not him but he's talking about the 37% of the public that supports Trump.

>>100386
>Can't refute it, so I'll call it cringe.

What's "Cringe" is how that faggot denies evidence and screams partisan over quite literally two words present in the archive of evidence, not even present within the evidence proper.

>>100239
The US doesn't have the willpower to fight any wars that aren't immediate invasions at this point. The ability is there, but it's so fractured politically, culturally, and demographically that any war on an outside party will have huge swathes of Americans siding with foreign enemies just to spite their internal ones.

>>100395
What's "cringe" is that you think you have evidence at all in the first place.

>>100398
>Can't disprove, so I'll mock and belittle it

Hillary and her campaign admitted to the sins presented. I posted her, during a live debate, admitting that it was true, and even tried to justify it. She then deflected by trying to make the issue about Russia, which there wasn't evidence for.

>>100400
There isn't anything to disprove but tinfoil conspiracies. There is a such thing as context and that's all lost on you as you read the campaign emails and fill in the blanks about what you don't know with imagined partisan skulduggery and shady dealings.

>>98230
Cry babies knocking the Monopoly board off the table. If they gave a shit about 'rigging' they would've endited Washerman-Schultz and penalized CNN for rigging the debates. So much colluision, bullshit and rigging goes into every election. They're just crying this time cause it was external and not their own doing.

>>100409
What is it you think Wasserman-Schultz did?

>>100411
Sucked Hillary Clinton's proverbial cock and gave it great preferential treatment to any other candidate cause she's an easily controllable Wallstreet shill. And no, I Hate Trump before you assume.

>>100405
>These emails that the campaign admitted to being guilty of is tinfoil.

>But Russia, Putin himself, commanded his entire media to hack the elections.

If we're talking conspiracies, talk about the Russian "hacking", it's not a conspiracy to use evidence and compare with what we saw during the whole election, the media collusion was insane, you even had NYT declaring they would forfeit integrity for the sake of pushing their politics.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/business/balance-fairness-and-a-proudly-provocative-presidential-candidate.html

You're hopeless is the conclusion I've come to. Once more, I wish prosperity upon us all, and I hope it turns your stomach to see positive society that came under someone you disagreed with..

>>100417
>Sucked Hillary Clinton's proverbial cock
She was the head of the DNC. Did you want her to tell Hillary to fuck off? Bernie wasn't even a registered democrat.

>>100418
>the campaign admitted to being guilty of
There isn't anything to be guilty over. It's literally all in your head. If Trump's campaign emails were leaked to the press through wikileaks do you honestly think they wouldn't have been just as bad if not worse?

>If we're talking conspiracies, talk about the Russian "hacking"
Oh wow, you're really far gone, huh. I'll just leave this here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14S0O6

>>100420
Nah. Just give someone besides Clinton even a glimmer of a 1/100th chance. Hell just give any other candidate even the time of day. Not just "We picked Hillary so everyone else is just for show" from day 1.

>>100423
>Just give someone besides Clinton even a glimmer of a 1/100th chance.
Who? Martin "I have no charisma whatsoever" O'Malley?

>>100422
We're not talking about Trump. We're talking about Hillary. If you're so mad about Trump, why don't you bust into his server and leak his sins? In fact, I would LOVE to see that, I want both sides grilled and rebuked for their sins.

You don't find media collusion to be a sin? Or the arms trafficking to known suppliers of terrorists? I know being a two faced bitch is merely unpleasant, and not a sin, but it's still something people should know when electing a person to office.

>>100425
Jim "Bringing Euthanasia to Youth In Asia" Webb. He actually had a chance to win, and resonated heavily with white working Americans, which is what Trump flipped in his favor.

>>100425
Idc, anyone who wouldn't have lost to a fucking pathetic racist Cheeto with no class or common sense.

>>100425
"Who? Who else was there besides Shillary, queen of sucking the 1%'s dick?" Youve accepted the status quo, anon. You have become happy with shit candidates with shit backgrounds. You seem to believe we as a nation shouldn't have good choices, or that they're are none. Damn. Must suck.

>>100427
>Jim Webb
>He actually had a chance to win
AHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHaaaaaa. Best joke I've heard all day. Thanks, Anon.

>>100430
How does it feel to be among the ever-decreasing group of Trump apologists? I hear you're down to 37% according to Quinnipiac.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/01/10/donald-trump-barack-obama-quinnipiac-poll/96397974/

Has anyone linked Edward Snowden to the Russians?

It's funny how we pretend they didn't give him asylum and that Russia didn't get good publicity.

>>100433
>Has anyone linked Edward Snowden to the Russians?
No.

>It's funny how we pretend they didn't give him asylum and that Russia didn't get good publicity.
Who is "we" and where did Russia get good publicity for that? In RT?

>>100432
Lmfao. Nice try captain dumbass assuming you, I hate Trump. I hope he fucking dies. Good job outing yourself as a short sighted jump-to-conclusions ASSuming moron.

>>100436
Oh so you're an edgy lolbertarian. How quaint.

>>100432
Lol this idiot just assumes I'm pro Trump cause I hate Hillary. What a dumbfuck. Just because your mind has been narrowed to the two party system doesn't mean people with common sense don't fall for that shit.

>>100438
yeah right, that's why you're going out of your way to do damage control for the Trump administration. Sure, kid.

>>100437
No. I don't like a lot of libertarian policies. I want a living wage. God job being the best at assuming and narrowing people in the groups. Your mind is perfect for the governments status quo.

>>100432
I voted for him, but I was a Webbslinger to start, and now I don't support the guy because of his promises he's been eerily quiet on while letting Neocons do the opposite of what he promised, without so much as a peep.

>>100440
>Damage control
>Exposing the sins of the DNC and Hillary is damage control for Trump

what if I told you I'd like to rebuke both their sins?
Plus, you're talking to three dudes right now.

>>100435

Edward Snowden is a reddit God and is well-liked among millennials.

If he had been a Trump supporter, I assure you intelligence agencies would have called him a Russian agent or whatever

>>100441
Let me explain a fact of life to you: It is the nature of the American 'Big Tent' political system that you can and will be classified as either a republican or a democrat whether you like it or not. There are no exceptions and no real third parties. Do you feel libertarian minded? Congrats, you're categorized as a republican. Do you read Marx and Engles?? Congrats, you're a democrat. Are you anti-abortion, pro-gay rights, anti-gun, but fiscally conservative? Congrats, you're a republican because of the abortion stuff. You can even register as the other party or one of the minor parties if you want, it won't change how you are classified by everyone else. As the tea party learned the hard way, if you want to change one of the two major parties with some kind of radical agenda, you have to do it from within.

>>100440
"Damage control"?

Look just because I'm not dumb enough to believe the government cares about the integrity of its so called 'elections.' and I disagree with you, does not mean in any way shape or form I endorse a racist Cheeto with zero class or political skills that I hope chokes on that fried chicken and dies of a heart attack.

I know your small little marionette string mind needs to lump anyone who doesn't agree with you into one category of dumb, mouth breathing Trump supporters - but your stupidity doesn't create reality. Well maybe for you. But not for everyone.

>>100446
see
>>100445
You don't get to be an edgy independent in a two party system.

>>100447
Nah. My opinion is individual and my own. See you're one of the medias perfect little puppets. Stamping out any dissent you see from the status quo. "Someone is trying to break away from two party politics, and shake shit up!? Not on my watch! You're one or the other, anyone who isn't lumping themselves into categories will be forcibly lumped by me! To continue the bullshit two party system status quo for all eternity!"

>>100444
>If he had been a Trump supporter, I assure you intelligence agencies would have called him a Russian agent or whatever
House republicans already do that.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/edward-snowden-russian-agents-house-report-232917

>>100448
No your opinion is not your own. You are expressing it right now, and people will classify that opinion as either right wing or left wing. You don't get to choose for them and I am not the one who does the 'lumping', the american people are.

>To continue the bullshit two party system status quo for all eternity!
You're adorably naive. Third parties are protest votes against one of the two major parties and nothing more. Go tell Rand Paul (R-KY) and Bernie Sanders (D-VT) about how you can be independent in this day and age. Even Angus King (I-ME) caucuses with democrats, not by himself.

>>100450
Nothing in this country will ever change because of narrow, easily shapen clay minds like yours. You may not think you're doing the lumping, but the fact that you repeat that opinion IS the lumping.

>>100451
What Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul know but apparently you don't is that if you want to change one of the two 'Big Tent' parties, you do it from within the tent, not from outside of it. That's how the GOP took over the Whigs in the 1850s.

>>100450
Not that guy,but you are absolutely insufferable. Stop trying to put a label on everything to disregard with a flick of your finger.

Life is so much more than a 1 dimensional line that is "Left" and "Right", it's a huge spectrum, Authoritarian, Libertarian, Left, Right, focus on nation or the global,

For example, it's possible to be a left leaning nationalistic authoritarian, or a right leaning libertarian that adores the global.

To reduce it to no more than "Left" and "Right" is to do a great disservice to any intelligent discussion. How do you explain the Republicans who are for Globalism (Neocons) for profit, and then the Republicans who are against that?

>>100452
Nevermind, you're just a hyperpartisan idiot. Ot a strange nihilist.

>>100456
lol, I don't have to try to do anything, society does it all by itself. Big Tent Politics doesn't care about your edgy individual opinions. You are a republican. I don't make the rules, America does.

>For example, it's possible to be a left leaning nationalistic authoritarian
Then you're a democrat.
>or a right leaning libertarian that adores the global.
Then you're a republican.

Get over it.

>>100461
I'm not a republican though.

>Reducto ad absurdum

Gonna be honest with you here, real honest,not only are you a sin denier, but you're also a useful idiot.

You need to not have children. Consider it throwing bleach into the gene pool, for the sake of the rest of us.

>>100463
You are a republican, you are just too dense to realize it. Again, I don't make the rules. you might as well go blame Ron and Rand Paul for putting a tiny little 'R' by their names instead of an 'L' because they're more responsible for why you're angry than I am.

>>100465
I'm a democrat though, I'm left leaning which is why I support Jim Webb.

I just believe in integrity, which you believe is a Republican conspiracy. Evidently obeying laws is a right wing ideal, which must explain Chicago and Detroit.

I'm obviously getting no where with you. I'm sure anyone that looks at this long dispute will see clearly how you conducted yourself along political lines, and then resigned to a nihilist view of hopelessness and powerlessness in the face of the grand scheme of everything, when clearly, throughout history, it's taken very view people to make radical changes in the world.

If you're fine with being condemned to the nothingness that goes unwritten in history, that is fine, but do not drag the rest of us with you.

>>100469
Okay fine, you're a dem. My only point is that you are one of the two whether you're a willing participant or not. Hell, you could find an indigenous primitive from Papua New Guinea and still be classify him as one or the other under the terms of the party platforms of one or the other parties.

You're going to have to come to grips with the Big Tent eventually, Anon. You're deep inside one of the two tents right now whether you realize it or not. It sounds cheezy af but the real power comes from being able to change the tent from within.

>>100471
But I'm not a dem, because I support both right and left wing ideals, because life is more complex than a label.

I'm registered democrat, but I'm not a dem.

>>100473
You're a dem as much as I am despite the fact that I voted for Gary "I quit smoking dope for the duration of the campaign" Johnson as a protest vote. I do understand that you don't necessarily *feel* like a dem.

Pathetic. They're trying to push us into a war with Russia just like we did with Iraq. Why can't anyone see that this is just the WMD boogaloo again. Our government is the cause of most of the evil around the globe, such as ISIS, North Korea, Iran and Al-Qaeda. Now they're trying to stomp on Russia and start WWIII so Obama and Clinton can distract the populace from Trump's victory. Why are so many people so gullible?

>>100599
Yes, comrade, our government is the cause of most of the evil around the globe.

>>100599
As a left wing liberal, the Democrats are acting like hysterical right wingers. The fact that a single laptop had simple malware that any human on earth with an internet connection can purchase is being labeled as Russian or nefarious is absolutely ridiculous.It would be akin to finding a can of Coca Cola in a train wreck and blaming America for the derailment.

The "hacking" report was equally flimsy. One of the traits that allows you to call yourself intelligent is objective, critical thinking and I see none of that from the center-left these days. They have become the hyperbolic blind partisanship they used to mock.

The expulsion of Russian Diplomats was for domestic political reasons and nothing more. It looks to be a partisan effort to possibly try and oust Trump as quickly as possible. They are using FEAR RUSSIA narratives to gain public support and to create a constitutional crisis to invalidate our democratic election and drive us into a nuclear war.

>>100602
If the government has proof of Russia interference, why are they not releasing it. Is it because they have nothing? The Iraq WMD shit was more transparent then this.

Also, if Russia really did hack the DNC, who cares? They should be getting pat on the back for exposing corruption rather then getting all this outrage. Someone needs to hold our government's feet to the fire, and if it's Russian hackers, then so be it.

>>100604
>>100603
The only reason I can think that your government is doing this is to create a false flag constitutional crisis and remove Trump from power as quickly as possible. America is now no different than shady third world coup d'états.

>>100604
I'm glad that the information showing how the DNC is a totally corrupt organization was released. I don't personally believe Russia had anything to do with it, but if they did, I would only thank Russia for providing me with this information. That the DNC is so corrupted is much more important than any hacking by anyone. The corrupt DNC is a far greater threat to the US than alleged Russian hacking. Also, there is a lot of evidence that this was a leak, not a hack. I believe that the leaker was Seth Rich, who the DNC then had murdered.

>>100602
Keep spreading the Russia bullshit! I know, let's start war with Russia! I bet you and MSNBC would love that.

>>100602
Sorry, but America doesn't get to complain about other people fucking with their elections, not until they stop fucking with other nations' elections.

>>100609
Seriously, the people getting pissy and angry at Russia (if it was even them in the first place) are acting ridiculous. It's like being more concerned over a petty thief because they gave you evidence of your babysitter poisoning your children.

>>100659
The leaks aren't much of a problem by themselves, and people who only get upset about them are being ridiculous. Taken alone, the leaks could be argued as a good thing as it exposes a issue and allows people to correct it.

All that said, Russia is hardly a benevolent arbiter in this. If this was the only thing they had done, I wouldn't really care all that much. But this is the latest in a long string of events to undermine or destabilize Western powers, whether by financing and aiding nationalist movements on both the left and right (from Le Pen in France to 5 Star in Italy), or putting out all sorts of propaganda about how shitty Democracies are. It's interesting to observe that people on the far right and far left seem to agree on one thing, and that's complimenting Putin's policies, and defending his actions (such as Crimea, where people are still saying there were no Russian soldiers even after Putin admitted to it).

Things like this happen:

http://www.jill2016.com/stein_in_russia_calls_for_principled_collaboration

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/368001-rt-western-dissidents-corporations/

or Calexit, who's leader lives in Russia, so it's not just a left-vs-right thing, as much as our MSM makes it out to be (it should be clear that Russia is no more an ally of the left then they are of the right).

A lot of this is circumstantial of course, but taken as a whole, it paints a rather incriminating picture.

So to use your analogy, it's more like thief steals cars from right under people, but they only started demanding for his head once he steals a stapler.

On Pen: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-26/le-pen-presidential-campaign-threatened-russian-bank-failure

Even zero hedge admits Pen took money from Russia (while stating everybody drawing connections from it is a conspiratard).

5SM: http://www.lastampa.it/2016/11/14/esteri/lastampa-in-english/the-affaire-between-the-five-star-movement-and-putins-emissaries-FhssevSl2AvCL5rFFsve3J/pagina.html

>>100660
The genie's out of the bottle though. Western citizens have seen the utter glee in some of their intellectual elite's eyes at the idea of demographic replacement. They can see with their own observations how much their corrupt governments value short term monetary gain over long term economic, social, cultural and demographic stability.

The strange thing is, I know this knee-jerk to the nationalist right is going to make the West fractured and weak on the global stage. I know it's a golden gift for an aggressive Russia or expansionist China. I don't care though. I should, but I don't.

The internal forces within Europe and North America subverting nation after nation with their nihilistic cultural relativism have made themselves a far bigger and more dangerous target to me than a nascent Russia. I know Russia's dangerous. I know they don't do anything without it benefiting them. I know this is a terrible precedence.

And yet I do not care. I'd rather the West be a squabbling pile of independent nations, because the alternative means destroying it altogether for the sake of fleeting global influence that in all likelihood is going to inevitably slip away. They've infected everything with the disease of cultural suicide and it sadly looks like the only cure is a deal with the devil. When you're that desperate to save something you can see dying before your eyes you'll reach out for any sort of help, even the kind you know you'd never accept in any other circumstance. Desperation makes strange bedfellows.

Hy дa, дaвaйтe гнaть нa Poccию…
So yeah, let spread bullshit on Russia

>>100664
I have to agree with you. The west needs to find itself again culturally, socially and economically and without all this self destructive self hate it has.

With that being said neither Russia or China are the monoliths they make themselves out to be. Russia is being held together by Putin, and a handful of cronies. When he goes it will be a bloodbath,where everyone will be looking to get their piece of the pie leaving Russia rudderless and fractured.

China is looking at revolt if not out right revolution. In the next year or so China needs to eliminate one hundred million jobs from their zombie corporations in coal mining and iron/steel mills. With growth slowing, and most people believing that China has been inflating their economic numbers to look better than they are. China is three bad days away from imploding on itself.

>>100665
Nice language, tells me youre not a real human right off the bat.
Gas all the east euro apes

>>100678
I don't think that's possible anymore sadly. As the saying goes, "Better a hard decision now instead of an insane one tomorrow." The window for the former is long gone. The time for reasonable actions and decisions that could have prevented all this chaos is no more. It's a world of extremes and ugly truths now and unless there's a massive and drastic shift in policy in the next few years it'll be too late to fix anything altogether.

Demographic replacement is already happening on such a scale that I don't think it's going to be reversible. Not without some very ugly looking things happening.

>>100664
>>100678
This honestly. Democracy and the enlightenment have destroyed Western civilization. Only a return to aggressive monarchism or fascism can save us now. It's telling that when Western powers stopped warring amongst one another, that is when the decline set in. Let France and Germany have another war between one another, for the competition and struggle ultimately strengthens nations and matures the populaces in the long run (and if one is annihilated, it was weak and deserved to be destroyed anyways).

>>100664
Agreed.

I find it highly disturbing that the CIA/FBI labelled things like coverage of Occupy Wallstreet, and indeed a long list of legitimate criticisms against "the establishment", as propaganda.

Here in Europe, Guy Verhofstad put RT on the same level as ISIS propaganda. I mean for fucks sake, what is happening?

This entire saga is exactly why Trump won in the first place. Nobody is paying attention to the contents of the leaked emails themselves.

Hillary should be in jail. A lot more Democrats should be furious with their party right now.

>>100776
Democrat here. Nobody is furious because the leaked emails don't have anything criminal in them. It's how a campaign for president is supposed to act.

>>100778
>It's how a campaign for president is supposed to act.
That is absolutely fucking ridiculous. If you seriously believe that, you are willfully enabling the kind of politics your party purportedly serves to keep out.

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com

>>100778
I could have potentially voted for Bernie, couldn't for the life of me vote for Hillary after reading one of those speeches at Goldman Sachs. Trump is just ridiculous as a whole.

Here in the Netherlands I'd never vote for Geert Wilders, but I am upset that the current government refuses in advance to work with Wilders' party that has 15% of the national vote even though they're largely aligned on the political spectrum.

Personally, I've never bothered voting for any party and I've always voted blank as a form of "protest". I'll be voting for a party this time, though. I think there may be many more like me, and indeed I know a few.

>>100774
>Occupy Wallstreet
>against the establishment

I have bad news friend. Occupy is organized funded by the establishment- specifically the Open Society Foundation.
The CIA/FBI labeled them propaganda because they have the labor and material receipts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/comments/4yqwx3/soros_and_occupy_wall_street/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wallstreet-protests-origins-idUSTRE79C1YN20111014

Astroturf.

>>100785
I'm aware of this. It doesn't change my attitude towards money in politics, though, it just makes it more aggressive.

>>100785
Good job removing the air-quotes though.

>>98499
Except the " burglary" showed how the democrats effectively stonewalled Bernie. RNC leaks would just vindicate Trump since they tried the same shit.

>>100830
>Except the " burglary" showed how the democrats effectively stonewalled Bernie
Talking about doing it in an email doesn't mean they actually did it. Nobody ever accused Bernie of being jewish in the media like the emails said. It was all part of opposition research on what the Republicans might use against Democrats that would last beyond the primaries. You''re acting like they should have been complimentary to Sanders when the point was to seek out points of weakness that might be exploited, like in any election campaign.

>>100776
>>100778
We as a free Republic should outlaw liberalism because it's incompatible with freedom, liberty and economic understanding of what it takes for individuals to be happy.
We just endured the worst eight years of misery ever thanks to liberals!
Liberalism has murdered more people then any other political movement in history.
Enough is enough!
Ban liberalism now and declare all democRATs as enemies of humanity!

We have the numbers. We can call a constitutional convention right now to finally get rid of this stain on our society. Outlaw the democRATs, and enforce the education of good American values and civics for our children and we will win this war once and for all.

>>100853
t. right wing extremist

>>100853
Just bring back the House Unamerican Activities Committee.

>>100854
t. left wing traitor

>>100854
Liberalism is a direct attempt to control us through the government. Criminals, especially gangs, will always have guns, yet liberals want us and our families to be defenseless. They don't understand how the brain works and blame the problem on guns, quite possibly because they don't have a brain themselves. They support Common Core, which holds back the more intelligent children in the school system. Paradoxical liberalism at it's finest. They feel so threatened by outsiders that they have been known to shut down conservative talk radio stations. Now ask yourself, do you really want to further enable a government full of brainless liberal control freaks the ability to further "coexist" in this country, or do you want to go back to the foundation and principles this country was once founded upon?

>>100893
>Liberalism is a direct attempt to control us through the government.
Liberals signed the constitution. I don't think you fully understand what a liberal is and are going by the breitbart definition. In antiquity liberals were closer to modern libertarians. Today the laissez faire attitudes of 18tth century liberalism have become more about progressive permissiveness and equality.
>Criminals, especially gangs, will always have guns, yet liberals want us and our families to be defenseless. They don't understand how the brain works and blame the problem on guns, quite possibly because they don't have a brain
The NRA is a corporate lobby, Anon, not a hobbyist organization. Criminals would love to shoot you with your own gun while you sleep. What's that? It's in a safe? Well what good is it then?
>They support Common Core, which holds back the more intelligent children in the school system.
You support charter schools where corporate profit is the only goal and not educating children.
>They feel so threatened by outsiders that they have been known to shut down conservative talk radio stations.
Conservative feel so threatened by saying "Happy Holidays" that they insist there is a war on Christmas and christians when every small town has at least one church and every big city has churches every few blocks.
>Now ask yourself, do you really want to further enable a government full of brainless liberal control freaks the ability to further "coexist" in this country, or do you want to go back to the foundation and principles this country was once founded upon?
I think you're a poor judge of the foundation and principles the country was founded on and anyway the constitution is a living document meant to be changed by successive generation. Thus why we have amendments. Furthermore, "the government" is city, county, state, and federal. You don't even know which to blame. Also, half the stuff you're mad at should be blamed on corporations and not the government.

>>100853
Limited democracy and natural inequality are ideas that are so obvious when you think about it but leftist hegemony keeps most from even being able to think of it.

>>98230
>>RT’s coverage of Hillary Clinton “throughout the U.S. presidential campaign was consistently negative and focused on her leaked emails and accused her of corruption, poor physical and mental health and ties to Islamic extremism,” the declassified intelligence report said.

But this is (except the ISIS ties i think) is all true, everyone saw her being dragged into the van, everyone saw her manic laughs and eye movements, everyone heard her talk about pepe the frog, everyone saw the leaked emails and the pay-per-play, the bill clinton's birthday gifts by countries who ended up receiving deals with the US government, the mails where she asked her housemaid to access the account and print confidential files, etc.

>>100954
Hillary is a satanic warmonger who runs a sex trafficking ring for pedos and fucks pigs while bathing in the blood of murdered virgins for fun.

>>100901
Lol mate, i know you have like a 300IQ but words change of definition as time goes bye and IRL people start using them to describe new things. A liberal today is a left-leaning bigstate cryptocommunist who wants a global government with a socialist-democratic system, lead by 25% transvetites, 25% gays, 25% lesbians, and 25% bisexual women, to help deactivate the social nets and bring forth a glorious age of a moralist drug-fueled anarchist utopia orgy.

>>100955
i read and saw this shit myself, nobody told me anything, i didn't see proof of what you say doe

>>100956
Since the enlightenment, where they overthrew the monarchies, libtards have they been on the wrong side of history.

>>100958
i dunno if i would say its even the same group, this is basically the same kind of people who were asking for christian videogames 20 years ago but adapted to our new culture, so they ask for feminist videogames instead

same will to control shit via government, which basically means control shit via force and punishment

>>100954
The wikileaks mails show that they knew that the opposition in Syria was in part ISIS and Al-Qaeda.
Besides that, there is the Saudi-ISIS link.
Not saying Hillary supports ISIS, but none of this is something I would support in any way.
I'm one of those people who'd rather have Gaddafi, Hussein and Assad.