Finland experiments with $600 a month stipend for jobless

fuggen commies

>>96790
Well it's being done in about the only country it could possibly succeed in so sit back and enjoy the show

>>96837

It could work in other countries. People just don't want it to. Specifically the U.S because the average citizen fell for the NO HANDOUTS! meme while rich people take handouts regularly.

Poor people: Handouts are bad. I should work myself to death for every single thing I have or want to have.

Rich people: Free money from the government and other rich people? Don't mind if I do.

Its implementation will have to be changed in order to work in other countries, but this is a step in testing whether it works at all.

I wonder if we can get a look into those 2,000 fins, because you certainly would get different results from say 2,000 junkies or gamblers.

>>96870
This is your Anon on socialism.

I'm more interested in how the citizens spend the money than how it affects unemployment. I've been hearing all my life that people don't' value things they receive for free, and this is the ultimate test of that adage

discussing communists

>>96870
Hey anon. They get money because they're rich.

And, hey anon. Guess who would pay for universal income? Poor people.

>>96909
>Guess who would pay for universal income? Poor people.
[citation needed]

>>96914
He means the middle class. And that same middle class would also end up not getting it. It's the classic problem of wealth redistribution.

>>96918
>And that same middle class would also end up not getting it.

I don't think you know what a basic income is.

>>96870
The rich get bailouts because they're the ones responsible for all our economic growth. You think some minimum wager is really that valuable to society or the human race in comparison?

>>96931
t. John Galt

>>96935
Who is John Galt?

>>96936
Who is Ayn Rand.

I already knew about it. Call me with the results.

>>96938
No one particularly important. Don't worry about it.

>>96837
This. The core problem with all socialist projects historically has been the people and the countries they were tried in: i.e. countries with shit people, where any and all ambitious projects are doomed to fail.

Btw Finland's far right is in support of it as well, on the grounds that it will actually shrink government there.

>>96837
>Finnish economy is contracting, jobs leaving, educated people starting to leave, more and more parasites coming over
>"DUDE BASIC INCOME LMAO"
Seriously?

How about investing that welfare and taxpayer money into creating a sustainable future?
Manufacturing ? Research ? Infrastructure ? Something that brings added value instead of french tier welfare for monkeys ?

>>96777
Privatise social security.

Suddenly, 60% of the state's weight has been lifted.
If you want to live past 50, either pump out kids or work your ass off and save money.

Nobody owes you a pension.

>>96921
I think you don't know that money doesn't just appear out of no where.
And if you give me that 3rd grade education response about printing it, you're permabanned.

>>96953
Yeah because we can trust the free market with our retirement. Get the fuck outta here with your 40 year old neocon privatization dream. It worked so well for the prison industry, right?

>>96954
>I think you don't know that money doesn't just appear out of no where.

I know where money comes from. Subtract it from the military spending. Instead of spending money on a ton of jets that won't even fly until 2019 put it towards a basic income.

>you're permabanned.

This is 4chan not your subreddit.

>>96954
>I think you don't know that money doesn't just appear out of no where.

The same mouthbreathers that parrot this bullshit are usually the same ones who think tax cuts for the rich actually create jobs.

>>96777
Problem is this isn't a solution, inflation will adjust to the extra expenditure, even if you set caps on product/service prices, it will end up distorting supply/demand, and cause what we need to be out of line with what is profitable by the regulations,

The only real way to run a country is to stay out of making decisions that have economic impact with negligible humanitarian benefits,

Completely deregulate everything, scrap minimum wage, do not legally hold people responsible to non repayment of loans (lending money leads to false inflation (housing, education, cars) and is fundamentally flawed if you think of the economy as a closed system (time dilated exchange rates))

and most importantly scrap all laws regarding health and safety, food hygiene, everything however

introduce a rating system (app) to evaluate various quality's of a good, service or job, example: did the product cause you to become ill?, how much was it?, did it kill you?, were you exposed to unsafe working conditions?, How well do your co-workers treat you?

This valuation system would allow people to see statistics of a product and allow them to make a decision for themselves, for example someone gets a disease and there are multiple companies (pure capitalism) that offer treatments, the rating system would show all statistics of reviews from previous customers, some could have appalling rates of death and or other illnesses but it could be cheap, some could provide a perfect service and be really expensive, the user gets to decide and if the user is killed from his choices it is completely his own fault,

>>96982


Food choices could also be monitored and linked to mortality, so when you have finished shopping it could tell you what your expected lifetime is, and give you suggestions to improve also with the cost, allowing people to make the choice,

Currency would have to be whitelisted, a digital currency that is only transferable with preprogrammed products and cannot be transferred between people,

Manipulation of the rating system would have to be punishable by death to all parties, as it could literally have the power to take over the world if falsely inflating their own product reviews,

Tl;Dr

A universal basic income will work for individuals however when scaled to an entire population, inflation will increase to adjust to the extra expenditure potential, the universal basic income will flow directly to the companies and increase inequality even more

>>96983
The main point is that with a perfectly unbiased rating system, price would set itself based on the demand, which would now be based on the collective average purchase rates directly proportional to the unbiased information of the product

>>96977
Tax is wasted by the government, siphoning off the wealth to their friends, crony capitalism

>>96908
>namefagging for no reason
>misspellings
For what purpose?

CNN, EH? ..............THIS WAS ALREADY DONE FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

>>96837
inb4 all 2000 of those are refuges

>>97066
>CNN, EH?
???

>>96777
Not my area of expertise, but don't the Netherlands have the same? When you lose your job you get a certain amount of money, given that you have to actively look for a job. The government also takes care of your health- and childcare and mortgage. Again not sure if this is the same thing.

Meh this stuff is inevitable all over the developed world once automation hits a certain point.

>>96964
>my false equivalence and forced conclusion is an argument
No.
Most people, with a brain and a job, already have private pension funds they're chipping in.

No, the state does not owe you more than you gave, you do not deserve to receive 1000 a month when you only contributed 100 a month.
If you want welfare in your senior years, pump out kids or save a lot of money.
Otherwise die and stop being a burden for everyone else.

>>97118
>you do not deserve to receive 1000 a month when you only contributed 100 a month.
When you contribute 100 a month for 50 or 60 years then yes, you absolutely do deserve 1000 a month. It's hilarious that you don't seem to know what a pension is and think they are meant to be broken like promises.

>>97070
>The Fugees
This is not Sweden

>>97083
Finland already has that as well. This is essentially a system that's eventually supposed to replace that and most other forms of wellfare with a single system in order to reduce bureaucracy.

>>97154
So the theory is "Save money on not hiring social workers"?

It is reasonably likely to FAIL because it is globally (7+ billion) unsustainable.

>The randomly selected Finns will receive €560 each month

1) So there will be "random" results (meaningless results from treating everyone the same: even the ones who have no concept of how to care for themselves or feed themselves SANELY)
2) A "basic" income that is "unlivable" is hardly a solution. It is a joke.

It seems like a government rebate for the people who already use the "minimum" individual carbon footprint of the masses in Finland.

http://www.businessinsider.in/the-indian-government-is-about-to-endorse-giving-all-its-citizens-free-money/articleshow/56317597.cms
BUT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/04/indian-politicians-cause-outrage-after-blaming-alleged-groping-on-womens-western-clothes/

Indian government guys--in mass--still blame girls and women for rape (very few men in India, little manhood over there): They reasonably can't possibly make this work when it's about equality. Guys over there are too inferior.

Saudi Arabia gives free money and that country's economy--unless something new happens along--is crashing and about to explode as Syria. USA oil is going to destroy that country back to the blown-up stone age. Oil priced high enough for their wasteful, unearned needs is high enough for USA oil to make money. They are scr... long before the USA. Of course, they aren't telling anyone this and they are far too arrogant to admit they are scr...

>>97194
>>It is reasonably likely to FAIL because it is globally (7+ billion) unsustainable.
Who the fuck is talking about global here? You? This is about one specific nation implementing this policy. The third world may never have the resources to implement this sort of policy, but that's not really relevant to first world nation states except for immigration concerns.

Hi. Finnish student here.
Outside the weather is dry and - 16 degrees celsius.
Had to brace it myself when i went to shop to buy some food supplies for tonight and tomorrow. Half filled shopping bag cost about 33 euros. Usually food for myself for one week costs 50-60 euros.

Phone, Internet, HBO and spotify costs 82 euros per month and depends of the city you live the rent varies. www.vuokraovi.com (google translate) For example 650 euros.

But to acquire any benefits you really need to understand language and how the system works. Government does not give anything for free and only a fool thinks that this country is showeling money away.
If you work you pay taxes or you can take the criminal shit path.

I hate that this news has been revolving around the world. Because in my opinion it's like ad and the least thing that we need is a jobles/broke/clueles or religious people who think this is some kind of tomorrowland.

Paradise is around all of us. But we all have to start making changes personally in our own enviroments.

If you are annoyed by the rubbish alongside the road you start cleaning that first. Thats what i do.

Here is some ego bullshit.
PS. Afghanistan, Balkans, Lebanon are wacky places to work while carrying steel.
I have been working with many nationalities and met awesome/horrible people around the world.


TLDR We need to understand the expenses as well but at least Finns try our best for better future.

>>97233
I respect you, your morals are rare in a world of indoctrinated consumers