Trump: Transgender people will not be allowed to serve ‘in

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you.

>>161203
Thank God

>>161205
are you saying that Trump is god?

>>161203
I can't stop fucking laughing. You spent billions, uping the costs like two times for no reason, on new Navy ship upgrades, repair and designs, that proved to be a tremendous fail, starting at point zero, at fucking systems engineering, yet you don't wan't to spend a dime on a bunch of transppl. Oh my god this is hillarious.

I also love how there's already a bunch of psychos shooting up the place, now Trumpo wants to unleash 15k+ roiding military-trained trannies. I love this glorious country.

>>161213
Because the military uses weapons and ships and trans people are useless?

Are you retarded?

>be tranny
>Want hrt + srs
>Cant afford it :(
>Join army
>Pass basic
>Come out as trans
>Get free HRT + SRS + desk job 500 miles from the fight since Im not a man anymore you bigots
>Get ptsd anyways

The free healthcare for being active military is actually pretty good. The inexplicable capabily to develop ptsd at a target range is not.

>>161213
40% of all transgenders go on to attempt suicide; not the kinda stable person you want around caches of munitions dump on base, or having your back in a combat situation, or having access to the destroyer's magazine when their hormones throw them for a loop

>be middle class american male
>continue to be ignored while morons in DC focus on other shit

man i just want some kind of job prospect

Ya know, but they still should have the right to serve. Normies can be crazy or abuse med care too. This is going to get the civil rights group right on Trump's ass.

>>161220
Nah. You can't serve if you have ADHD or asthma. No way you should be able to with dysphoria or hormone therapy/surgery.

>>161213
Well at least Navy ships don't suddenly think they are helicopters and try to fly with their propeller.

We shouldn't even be allowing women in combat roles, why should we allow people with mental conditions?

>>161223
You made me giggle like a retard on that one, anon.

>>161225
Well I have no problems with women in combat roles IF and this if is important, they are able to pass the exact same physical requirements as their male counterparts. Lowering the standards for them is pure BS in combat situations where it is about life and death not just for you but also for your comrades.

>>161227
Of course, but you and I both know that standards would get lowered, and the hygenic and privacy requirements would (and are) a pain in the ass for Joe Average.

Oh, and there's the reason nobody wants to talk about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCPJ_SQVUGQ

>>161227
I don't think it helps the military, so case closed. Military is a fighting force, not summer camp

>>161203

Is this even news?

Would the military have let in somebody with gender dysphoria before now if they knew about it? Like >>161221 said they're hardcore about even commonplace shit.

>>161214
>soldiers are useless
God bless the USA.

>>161235
Soldiers that suffer from a mental condition are useless.

The Army won't even take you if you took antidepressants in the past, why would you expect to get in if you think you should have been born without a penis?

Oh I'm pretty sure this isn't a distraction :^)

But seriously, you people are as predictable as fuck.

>>161237
does that disability impair their ability to kill terrorists in any way?

>>161235
Trannies aren't soldiers, kys

>>161238

>Oh I'm pretty sure this isn't a distraction :^)

Considering this is how the US military operated up until 2016 when Obongo decided to affirmative action the military, I don't really see it as much of a distraction

>>161240
>Lets give someone intentionally fucking with their hormonal balance while being at an absurdly high risk for suicide/self harm an automatic weapon and access to explosives
Yes anon it does. The bar for actual combat operations is pretty high. The furthur you get from them the lower the bar but weapons training is a hurdle that any mental disorder will disqualify you immediately.

>>161234
They're hardcore about commonplace shit, but they'll let in actual retards, and sociopaths/psychopaths as long as they've never been diagnosed.

>>161243
>>161237
They had no problems what so ever with giving son of sam, McVeigh and Rader all the training, gun access and action they could ever wish for. Tell me more on how they don't want no mental disorders in the Army.

>>161228
If a chick can't piss in the woods then she shouldn't be in a fox hole. Yeah, I say this as a woman too.

>>161203

This is great.

I'm gay and the trannies dont deserve the same treatment they have a mental illness.

>>161245
There is a difference between diagnosed mental disorder and being a violent shit head. Violent shit heads don't come with a warning note.

>>161245
>How should we deal with mental illness in the military?
>Increase standards to weed them out?
>Or reduce standards for the sake of fairness to all mental disorders?

>Not sending all fags to the front lines

>>161245
O

IT IS NOW TIME FOR THE WISDOM OF THE GREATS

O

HAIL GREAT LIBERAL GOD'S

WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE WISDOM THAT NEVER FAILS TO BTFO REPUBLICANS?

>*nasally voice from the sewer* HYPOCRITE

O YES GREAT LIBERAL GODS THANK YOU *mutilates dick as a blessing*

NOW I CAN WIN EVERY ARGUMENT WITH THE NAZIS

O

U

HYPOCRITES

*repeat in every debate forever*

>>161251
But why though? all three and probably many more were good soldiers and made their country proud.

>>161267
Military is becoming a welfare job farm. Good thing Mattis has a head on his shoulders.

>>161270
That is like the first good point I've seen. Nice.

>>161267
Because some assholes at the top and at the paper have a kneejerk reaction when soldiers go off and kill a bunch of non combatents. The goal is to reduce this shit. Mcveigh and rader didnt have signs of mental issues upfront and center. They didnt proudly display body dysphoria like a badge of honor.

>>161270
>Military is becoming a welfare job farm.
>Becoming
>Doesn't know about or when the G.I bill was passed.
Okay, retard.

They are SO MAD that their commie infiltrators are getting kicked out

>>161274
What are you on about

>>161203
Makes sense. These people need a constant supply of female hormones and hours every day to dilate the gaping wound their body is trying to heal. Not exactly conducive to military life.

>>161248
Just you wait fag, you're next. You think real army men are fine with you're perversion? It disgusts us. If any of us had the lack of discipline you did we would say more about how fucking repulsed we are to share company with you, but we don't let our perversion rule our lives, we follow discipline. At the end of the day that's what REALLY separates us, and makes your kind so mentally unfit for the standards of the US army. You're weak, disgusting, selfish little freaks, and the army and the world will be better off when you learn your place is in the gutter with all the other sodomites and heathens.

>>161216

It's why they receive plenty of mental screenings.

>>161298
Government mental screenings are a joke (it's a bubble test)

>>161221
Well, I'm not so familiar with Transgender people. If they're deemed fit to serve, than why not let them? What if they enlist after their surgery? This seems harmless if done right.

>>161310
This, I'm not well versed in after-treatment either.
If there was necessary medication that trannies needed and it'd reasonably interfere with serving, then make the ban on that and keep it consistent with every other scenario where people need that level of medication/treatment.

If the problem was mental health in trannies, make the ban on every similar level of mental health issues. Whether that be indiscriminate bans based on statistics or better screening, keep it consistent. Ideally better screening would be the option but that could be seen as a logistical problem that they don't want to surmount.

>>161310
Would you allow a race/religion/group of people whom 4/10ths commit suicide? That's asking for trouble and displays they put themselves in a mentally weakened state. Furthermore, they have to dilate their axe gash they call their vagina for ~4 hours a day to prevent it from fusing shut. There is no room for these buttercups in a combat zone. Good men will be dying, and Mr. Susie J. Rottencrotch will be complaining in the fox hole about having sand in their dilated mangina.

>>161312
I don't think a group should be outright banned based on statistics. However, I'd prefer a situation where we can instead give additional tests to members of said group to determine if they do indeed fall in the percentage that have a disqualifying mental health status, then refuse them if they don't qualify. I believe it's be better to use statistics to better test people that might need it and filter them out when you have a better understanding.

Does each and every tranny need dilation? I'm going out on a limb and assuming at least 1 tranny does not need dilation and say that if dilation is a reason to refuse someone, which if you're accurate that it's a 4hr commitment that sounds entirely reasonable, then make the ban on dilation as well as anything else that has a similar or worse level of interference.

>The military requires you to be mentally stable in order to join.
>The president bars a small minority group known for their menal instability and high suicide rates from joining the military.
>This decision was made after consulting with millitary experts and generals.
>The media/the left acts like this was a terrible decision.

I keep thinking the left and the media can't get any dumber. Yet...Here we are.

>>161310

trannies are mentally ill freaks. we should stop pretending they're anything else and give them the medication they need or lock them up in padded rooms.

>>161215
>ptsd at a target range
you have no clue what real ptsd is. stop. go see a doctor for you pathological lying and delusions.

>>161310
>Harmless
No because it introduces cost and time expenditure into a military that already spends too much, and wastes too much time. Trannies also need alot of care - mental and physical - care that can't be given in a hostile environment.

>If done right
The government doesn't do anything right

>>161330
>Trannies also need alot of care - mental and physical - care that can't be given in a hostile environment.
Then make that the reason for the ban, people who need additional physical/mental care.
There are trannies out there that don't need any of that and would do fine in said hostile environments.

>>161335
That is the reason. Mattis told Congress there's no reason to have trannies in the military, that it's detrimental. Trump just tweets.

There are no trannies that don't need that. They need upkeep hormones, maintainance surgery, and regular counseling. Additionally, they introduce morale and collaboration issues.

If someone with ADHD can't join, then people with dysphoria should definitely not.

Hey I got caught up in all this...Trump didn't exactly sign a law did he? He just tweeted.

Legally nothing has changed for the transgendered right now. Why the hell would Trump announce this change before making it legal first?

>>161313

The problem is the group, as a group, is defined by its mental instability.

Better safe than sorry. There's alot of things you can be born with that exclude you from the military. Trans people, ironically enough, aren't special.

losers!

>>161338
My problem is more that it's specifically targeting trannies, implying that simply being one means you shouldn't be in the military, when the justification is for medical upkeep.
If it's valid that the medical upkeep is the problem, then sure, deny anyone that needs that upkeep because it's a hindrance, tranny or not. And then extend that even further to anyone else that needs medication and bar them entry.
I'd rather see them ban for legitimate reasons instead of blanket ones. The problem is that they need medical upkeep/are at a higher likelihood of suicide, the problem isn't that they're a tranny, it's specific things that are related to that.

With regards to morale/collaboration issues, wasn't that one of the main arguments for denying women into the military? As far as I know, we're getting past that barrier, so this just seems like another one to get past.

>>161297
>hurr we're so fukken disciplined get on my level faggot
>implying soldiers don't love getting fucked up/ laid when their not going on long ass runs, or digging holes
Fuck off, cunt. "Discipline" has nothing to do with being gay or straight. Some people are just attracted to the same sex, and that's fine

>>161344
>Another one to get past
It's not worth getting past, and it's not comparable in alot of regards. 50% of the world are women, and they shouldn't be in combat.

The military isn't a job opportunity. It's a service. Its more about what the military wants, not what society wants of the military.

The salt on MSM and the useful idiot forums is truly something special.

>>161344
It's not solely targeting transgenders as a group, they are listed in the DSM-IV as a case of mental illness, gender identity disorder:
http://behavenet.com/node/21626

Considering soldiers have a high risk of getting PTSD already, it would only compound the mental health transgenders.

With any other health case, be it asthma or schizophrenia, these are automatic disbarment in the recruitment process, why bend the rules for these statistically unstable people that represent only a few thousand of the couple million active duty soldiers?

>>161355
>mental health of transgenders

>>161350
Who are you to say it's not worth getting past?
What are you criteria for social barriers worth getting past?

That's a good point on military being a service and shouldn't bend to society's will.
However, I think it's illogical ban all transgenders because of associated risk factors, instead of just banning those risk factors, and all similar ones.
My problem isn't that trannies get screwed over with this, I fully agree that we should only have capable, healthy individuals in the military. The requirements should be very strict, absolutely.
The criteria for being eligible shouldn't include factors like gender, race, orientation, sex, but rather your physical and mental capabilities.

>>161237
Being trans is not a mental condition.

Being trans however can cause gender dysphoria, which is a mental condition. But a trans person who has transitioned fully for years is going to have very low, if any, gender dysphoria and are mentally comparable to any cis person.

>>161240
>thinks that all jobs in the military involve killing
liberals, ladies and gentleman

>>161220
Yeah, but transsexuals are mentally ill, and the military has never accepted them.

>>161312
Not all trans people get or want genital surgery and not all trans people are transwomen.

>The Democrats try to turn back onto an economic track to attract voters again.
>Get dragged back into the social issues hole

Man, this made my week.

>>161297
Good man.

>>161355
If it's true that being transgender is undeniably a mental illness of a certain level, assuming some are worse than others, then wouldn't it make more sense to bar entry to everyone at that level of mental illness?

I'm not saying the rules need to be bent at all, I think they should be consistent.
If there are other people with a similar level of mental illness, ban them on the basis of their mental illness.

>>161322
It's an agenda.
Not like it needs to be said, but the liberal media wants to subvert all power structures in favor of themselves--the Marxist institutions.

>>161355
>they are listed in an outdated document as having mental illness

Good argument.

>>161368
Not him, but where specifically is the document incorrect?

>>161368
>liberals like when psychiatry favors them but dislikes it when it does not
really makes you think

>Transgendered people need to be allowed into the military!

>People with mental illnesses shouldn't have access to guns!

pick one for fucks sake

>>161366
Anyone that shows any sign of mental illness is barred from service. No exceptions.

>>161371
The current consensus, as of the DSM-V, is that the state of being trans isn't a mental illness after recent studies confirming that trans people are in fact neurologically intersex. Being trans can cause gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness, but that's a separate issue with separate treatment from just being a trans person.

Basically, a trans person believing themselves to mentally be a different gender than their physical sex isn't a result of psychosis or any mental health issue; they just literally and physically are mentally intersex.

There are many studies on the neurology of trans people compiled here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0

>>161372
I'm not a liberal, at least in the modern sense, I just believe we should be using you know, actual current research from actual doctors and scientists to base our opinions on instead of an outdated handbook from over two decades ago and random people's flawed conclusions based on badly interpreted studies (for example, the 40% suicide rate claim; there is no study anywhere that claims young and transitioned trans people have a 40% suicide rate, or even a significantly increased one) and personal anecdotes.

>>161381
Oh and for the record, I'm fine with preventing trans people from joining the military, but not for any mental reasons, trans people simply have unique medical needs that would impact their effectiveness as soldiers.

I'm just challenging the idea here that being "mentally ill" is why trans people shouldn't be allowed to serve.

>>161203
Don't worry about it. Drumpf will change his mind about this tomorrow. It was only an attempted distraction anyway, but it won't work. Russia's still here, and we'll still get him out because of it.

>>161389

The misdirection thing doesn't really apply today, or at least not rationally. He had a multi-billion dollar Foxconn deal to announce that will supposedly create thousands of jobs (>>161346), using this as a distraction is just running over his own accomplishments. Of course, he's done this in the past, much to the chagrin of his colleagues in congress and his subordinates in the executive, so I wouldn't put it past him. However, logically he had much better news to deliver today that wouldn't be considered controversial (the Foxconn deal seems to be enjoying bipartisan and MSM support).

>>161357
It's not a social barrier. It's a physical and medical detriment.

>>161393
The physical and medical detriments are valid reasons for barring people from the military, and their reasoning for barring them should come solely from those detriments.
Barring transgenders because they won't be accepted is a social barrier.

>>161381
Can we get a tl;dr of the google docs?

>>161397
I agree. But I think both are valid because transgenderism is self inflicted, not your condition.

>>161329
>be after stress
>stress was traumatic
>it's not orderly
??

>>161402
I see what you mean, they can't help being born with or developing a condition, but their choice to undergo surgery or medication that would inhibit their military performance to below qualified levels is a perfectly valid reason to not allow people into the military.
I think it would be unfortunate and wrong for someone that has their transgenderism completely under control to be barred service just because they fall into a category rife with problems.
Not saying that there are people that have it under complete control and would have no problem serving just like anyone else, though. don't know any trannies nor have I researched any, so I don't know. I'm just speaking hypothetically, because there's bound to be someone that exists to fit that.

>triggered: trans people are mentally ill.

You fell for the bait. What exactly is the strategy here? If you actually hate trans people then why bring them back into normal society where their odds of death are significantly lower? It's not like they just stop being trans once kicked out of the army. Instead they will all come back to your home town, where they will continue to use health services on tax payer dime (Medicade) for their trans "ailment," possibly "infecting" others with their "mental illness."

The only reason he did this is because Bannon told him it would gain him points with the Alt-right. Remember, they defended AG Sessions over him in this public fight he is engaged in over firing Mueller.

He didn't even tell the Pentagon. He just tweeted it out without any kind of plan.

>Trans people use a lot of army medical services.

Literally debunked hours within his tweet. The military only spends at most $8.4 million on all trans people combined per year. Meanwhile, they spend $41 million on Viagra alone per year.

This only benefits (cancer patient who refuses treatment) Steve Bannon, who wants to fracture American society, furthering--perhaps inadvertently--the Russian agenda.

>Tl, dr: Trump is using trans people as a pawn to trigger and rally the Alt-right in a dangerous attempt to fire Sessions to fire Mueller.

>>161406
there's only like 3000 trans in the military, out of 2 million, what's the percapita costs?

>>161408
Too high

>>161408
i did the math myself
they spend $2800 on each trans soldier
and $34 on Viagra per soldier if you assume it only goes towards the active duty male soldiers

>>161398
Basically, cis men and women are known to have sexually dimorphic structures in many areas of the brain. In trans people, these areas of the brain more closely match their identified sex than their chromosomal one (although not completely), and this is true regardless of hormone usage.

Thus, trans people are by definition biologically intersex, not truly male or female, since they possess sex-incongruent traits. Ie, a transwoman may have typically male genitals and chromosomes but intermediate, female-leaning brain structure. This makes them intersex, since not all the traits match up to one sex.

>>161411
$20.5 if you assume that 800,000 reserve forces are male

>we should bend over backwards for trannies because their mental illness makes them special snowflakes :^)
ohohoho

thank you trump and thank you mattis for putting an end to this retarded farce

>>161415
Seriously. Aren't people tired of pretending women and trannies are as capable? It's like an inside joke

https://www.change.org/p/the-nazi-party-make-the-second-holocaust-legal-0e97dd71-ae89-45b6-ba2a-32ddd6f94b63


That Will solve problems.

>>161261
>No argument detected.
>J-just i-ignore where I-I'm wrong, goy
>A person willingly turning their dick inside out is the same as a person killing civilians.

The left doesn't need to btfo republicans when they do it so handily themselves lol.

>>161412
Interesting, thanks for the info.

>>161411
Post your math, because i'm not following it.
A typical dosage of viagra ranges from 25-100mg, so let's assume 50.
6 Viagra tablets of 50mg costs an average of 390$

However, men of course don't need to take Viagra daily, just prior to sex. Let's assume the average man has sex about once a week (although in reality I'd assume this is higher.), or 4 times in one month. Since a serviceman only gets 1 month leave a year, we can leave it at that 390$ for a year. However, remember that a soldier's family is covered by military healthcare as well, and they'll have as much time to fuck as they want. So a serviceman with one male family member with ED will cost 3120$ a year.

As an MtF trans person I take two medications. Spironolactone at 200mg daily, which blocks testosterone, and Estradiol at 2mg daily, which gives me estrogen. Dosages and medication do vary a lot for trans people however, but this is pretty standard from what I've seen with my trans friends and /lgbt/ posters.

A month's worth of Spiro costs me 30$, a month's worth of Estradiol costs me 9$, so just 39$ a month. Over a year this will cost me 468 dollars.

You may say I should factor in the cost of surgery, but many trans people never get surgery, most of those who do go out of country for it (there are no decent trans surgeons in the US), so that cost is irrelevant.

Basically, even with a conservative estimate for the Viagra-using soldier, the cost is around the same, and much higher for him if we include his family.

>>161382
The DSM-V is as much a political statement as it is a diagnostic tool. There is no concrete evidence that there are neurological differences between trans and non trans individuals.
As for the attempted suicide rates: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
published in 2014
BTW a study that doesn't agree with you doesn't define 'flawed' study

Regardless of how this will impact the military this declaration is just going to make people even more upset at the president, couldn't it have waited until anti-Trump sentiments had died down a bit?

>>161360
>Being trans is not a mental condition.

>Hilarious reaction image

I want to be a snow blower. U think this is delusional? Military should not hire delusional people.

>>161433
>There is no concrete evidence that there are neurological differences between trans and non trans individuals.

There are many, many studies on this topic that together encompass hundreds of subjects and several different brain structures.

>BTW a study that doesn't agree with you doesn't define 'flawed' study

Maybe try learning to read.

>random people's flawed conclusions based on badly interpreted studies

I never said the studies were flawed, I said people's interpretations of them were often flawed. For example the infamous Swedish study which anti-trans activists often read as claiming transition causes high suicide rates and that transwomen commit crime just as cis men do, despite the study saying nothing of the sort.

The study you posted is an example of this. It's examining lifetime suicide attempt rates, thus it includes pre-transition people as well. There is no evidence that, post-transition, a young transperson is anymore likely to kill themselves, or even attempt suicide than their cis counterpart.

>>161312
On top of everytone else who replied, why cite statistics? All recruits go through an interview, so we can deal with them on a personal level. That drill sergeant isn't going to train a statistic, if they fail at least they got the chance.

You also act like normal people go through mental health issues too. On top of it all, I'd like to point out that the few miltary shootings we're carried out by hetero males. At least suicides only hurt themselves. So, I see no reason to give these guys a shot. I'm proud as shit of my miltary relatives.

>>161427
8.4 million / 3000 for trans cost

41 million / 1.2 million for active duty male personnel Viagra cost

>>161451
How bout we get rid of both, case closed

How come no one has mentioned Bradley/Chelsea Manning?

He/She was in the military and spread all that Intel or whatever? Remember that? Pretty sure that's at least a little relevant or something. Especially seeing as how Trump rants about the Intel community at least once a week. Whatever.

>>161460
Why would her leak have anything to do with her being trans?

>>161213
trannies are mentally ill. they have not place in the military.

>>161220
no they shouldn't they are mentally unfit.

>>161235
trannies are harmful to the military.

>>161360
Being a tranny absolutely is a mental illness.

>>161298
Then those mental screenings are failures if they allow someone who wants to be "trans" in.

>>161310
The problem is that being a tranny should be disqualifying. It's a mental illness.

>>161466
>>161469

No, it isn't. See >>161381

>>161470
keep telling yourself that

>>161462
I'm just connecting dots and seeing if anything of importance shows up. It's more fun than going back and forth on whether being trans is a mental disorder. I doubt anyone here is a mental health professional, i.e. psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, etc. So, like I always state, I leave defining shit like that up to people who actually study it, not just myself or some other casual observer.

Anyways, this could be trumps way at getting back at the tranny for leaking information. Trump has taken a pretty strong anti-leak stance, especially in recent days.

Why is this so funny? Ha ha ha ha

>>161472
This is not a good theory.

Mattis has been trying to get this through for months. Mattis told Trump to do this.

>>161203
JESUS LIVES

>>161462

>her

>>161475

Mattis told him to delay 6 moths for further study and wait for the results before making a final decision. Instead Trump just shut it down.

>>161491
Nope. Mattis told him to do it today.

>>161412
This is a very different understanding than what I had of it, thank you for providing the info.
>>161480
And thank you for your buzzwords.

>>161493

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/07/01/mattis-delays-new-transgender-policy-for-us-military/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/06/30/mattis-delays-pentagons-decision-to-allow-transgender-recruits-six-more-months/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/1/james-mattis-delays-transgender-military-services-/

Unless he suddenly changed his mind in the past month, he gave them 6 months at the end of June (by the end of the year). It seems illogical for him to suddenly change his mind on this and I doubt the review would be ready 5 months ahead of schedule.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/07/26/why_didn_t_trump_warn_the_pentagon_about_his_transgender_ban.html

Plus the Pentagon was not ready for this announcement. This indicates that Mattis wasn't in on this decision, since I'm pretty sure he would have had his people ready long in advance of any announcement and not scrabbling to change gears.

>>161297
you sound kinda like you're afraid of gay people.
gay people can have discipline too you know.
just look at the Spartans.

>>161496
Yeah well I have annonymous sources. They tell me these things.

>>161439
There is no significant change in suicide and hospitalization rates for mental illness for post-op transsexuals. If you actually read the comprehensive study, you would have read that. A collection of studies done across various parts of the brain does not a proof of causation make. It is evidence of potential causes, not proof since none of said studies have other studies that and recreate the original results.
Your mixed salad of studies makes you personally feel better about your own situation. However, it does zero for others who's life are negatively affected by being transsexual.

>>161213
>. You spent billions, uping the costs like two times for no reason, on new Navy ship upgrades, repair and designs, that proved to be a tremendous fail, starting at point zero, at fucking systems engineering, yet you don't wan't to spend a dime on a bunch of transppl.

I'm not even against trans in the military but what a stupid argument.
>hurrr durr. you spent money on ships but don't let trans in the army!1 hypocrites1

>>161245
Those guys only became psychos after their war experience though.

>>161511

I don't think it's a good argument either, but I also think that using cost as an argument doesn't work for a total ban. If cost is your main concern, then change the medical policy to not cover those procedures that you don't deem necessary while still allowing transgender folk to serve. Banning the whole group because you deem the procedures expensive and unnecessary seems like overkill to me.

>>161360
The psychologists should really be the ones making that distinction though. Just saying you don't have it isn't good enough.

>>161360
>if on female hormones they will have far less physical strength
>have open wound with risk of infection
>high suicide risk
>identity issues
>etc.

sacrificing the effectiveness of a group of killers charged with defending your tribe for the feelings of a tiny .02% minority of the population is foolish, if your chief aim is actually surviving.

>>>161510
>There is no significant change in suicide and hospitalization rates for mental illness for post-op transsexuals. If you actually read the comprehensive study, you would have read that.

Complete lies. That study says nothing of the sort and even claims itself that more research is needed in that area, because their study didn't cover it.

>As has been noted, the NTDS instrument did not include questions about the timing of suicide attempts relative to transition, and thus we were unable to determine whether suicidal behavior is significantly reduced following transition-related surgeries, as some clinical studies have suggested (Dixen et al., 1984; De Cuypere et al., 2006).
>This study has identified several areas that are in particular need of further research. First, more research is needed into the timing of suicide attempts in relation to age and gender transition status.

The study does show that post-op trans people have higher LIFTIME ATTEMPT rates, but that in no way means being post-op is what makes them suicidal. It could, for example, be that trans people who are so dysphoric about their genitals that they attempt suicide are the ones who are more likely to go through with surgery, or that, due to it's expense, they're more likely to have significant financial troubles, etc.

And keep in mind, SRS in general is controversial in the trans community, plus it's just damn expensive and has some pretty tight requirements for eligibility, certainly far from all trans people want or get SRS.

>A collection of studies done across various parts of the brain does not a proof of causation make. It is evidence of potential causes, not proof since none of said studies have other studies that and recreate the original results.

Once again, complete lies, here's just one example.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21195418
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699258/

>>161518
But this IS the distinction psychiatrists have made. Read the DSM-V.

>>161537
As I've said before, I understand and support the new rule, but the arguments that suicide risk is a good reason are ridiculous.

This is a good change because, as I understand it, every member of the military is expected to be able to fight effectively in case of shit hitting the fan, even if they probably never will. In other words, an engineer maintaining the planes or the cook of a ship have to be just as capable of direct combat as any infantry unit.

Trans people, however, have unique medical needs that would make them bad candidates for being soldiers. They need hormone medication in order to stay just as happy and healthy as any cis person; and in the event of say, a squad being stranded from supplies for a few weeks, their effectiveness as soldiers would suffer greatly.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

>>161329
ptsd has been getting passed out as a self-diagnosed->treatment like opium for a housewifes headache. Ptsd is a horrible thing to live with, ive had family with it. But there was/is a population coming home thats developing it at a desk job and VA doctors have been trying to figure it out. Typically its the same brand of retard that screeches muh stolen valor at anyone wearing a marines ballcap. It isnt real for this population. If it is, it means they slipped through the cracks and had some serious shit before they deployed.

Based Trump.

These subhuman monstrosities don't deserve a penny.

>>161545
>https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Again, not agreeing with your world view isn't a 'lie'. Since you are so into the DSM-V perhaps you should a check out DSM-5 297.1 and reflect

>>161582
The thing about PTSD is that you can talk yourself into having a condition that mimics PTSD without actually having PTSD. The constant re-enforcement of the idea that trans people are being oppressed and are in constant danger will create the hyper vigilance and stress that PTSD is associated with.
So they have something like PTSD, but it wasn't caused by any event during their duties, and require a different treatment.
The only reason why VA doctors have trouble figuring out they high levels of desk jockies with PTSD is because we have had an administration in the past who put social justice and social experiments above the welfare of individuals.

>>161237
>Implying every veteran doesn't suffer from a mental condition.

>>161243
>soldiers don't fuck with their hormones
>soldiers are never suicidal

Where is this ridiculous unrealistic depiction of soldiers coming from?

>>161243
>soldiers don't fuck with their hormones
>soldiers are never suicidal

Where is this ridiculous unrealistic depiction of soldiers coming from?

>>161361
What would make a transgender person incapable of working on a computer or working as an engineer or medic for the military. They would be the ones actually pursuing a military career while you stuff cheeseballs down ur gullet and shitpost on 4chan, so where is your assumed authority coming from?

>>161284
>I don't know what I'm talking about

>>161216
They do that cause society mocks them and denies their identity and most of them are also at risk of being beaten to death by a mongoloid who goes into a bloody rage at the sight of a man in a dress and their families completely disown them, but keep oversimplifying, it seems like the only thing you're good at

>>161338
Where are all you people who don't know anything about trans people but presume to know everything getting your information from? Breitbart?

>>161289
Not all trans take hormones, not all have had surgery or even want surgery, please make more ignorant statements

>>161620
But all of them are mentally defective.

>>161620
Regardless, accommodating their trans "identity" leads to additional complexity and potential for problems. There's no shortage of people looking to join the military who have never once given a single thought as to whether they were born in the wrong body. Why add needless complication?

>>161616
>Some do detrimental shit already
>So lets open the floodgates for more instead of nipping it in the bud
Flawless logic. Great stuff.

>>161619
>Mattis doesnt know whats best for the military
Mattis' sources are the officers dealing with this directly who say that the extra bodies are not worth the issues that come with those bodies

>>161618
>Murders of transwomen are random killings
>Not at all brought on when they take some guy from the bar home and reveal the benis
>Suicide is not at all the sudden and shocking realization that your lifes problems dont go away after getting implants, lopping your cock off and taking years of hormones, giving a very real, very painful and very thorough understanding of "a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

>>161466
Holy fuck, just kill yourself

>>161612
>Again, not agreeing with your world view isn't a 'lie'.

It is when your disagreement is based on claiming evidence that doesn't exist does. and evidence that does exist doesn't.

>http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

If you read that study you'll see that the increased mortality rate completely disappears, and becomes equal with controls, when examining trans people who had SRS after 1989.

>s. Table 2 separately lists the outcomes depending on when sex reassignment was performed: during the period 1973-1988 or 1989–2003. Even though the overall mortality was increased across both time periods, it did not reach statistical significance for the period 1989–2003

And note that this isn't just a product of the younger generation having not had enough time to kill themselves - most of those who had the operation between 1973-1988 died within 10 years of the surgery. This is simply a result of improved quality of care for transpeople, and/or higher social acceptance, and/or younger trans people simply being more likely to pass and be happy with their bodies.

>Since you are so into the DSM-V perhaps you should a check out DSM-5 297.1 and reflect

Are you trying to imply that trans people have delusional disorder? Based on what?

Lol why are people still talking about this

It's like gay marriage it effects like .01% of the population

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029?lo=ap_a1
>“I know there are questions about yesterday's announcement on the transgender policy by the President,” Dunford wrote in the message, a copy of which was provided to POLITICO. “There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President's direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance.”

>“In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect. As importantly, given the current fight and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions,” he continued.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, TRUMP BTFO

Seriously you guys are fucking predictable. It's the same godsdamned thing every time
>muh mental illness
>muh mutilated dick
It's like transmen don't even bloody exist in your eyes. Or that you hate women so much that when one becomes a man it's actually a improvement.

As for the 'mental illness' thing, you try dealing with half the metaphorical shit that gets flung at transgendered people on a DAILY basis and see if you don't fucking crack.

>>161641
>It's like transmen don't even bloody exist in your eyes.
Correct. There are normal people. And the rest are Sodomites that will go to hell.

>>161641
>It's like transmen don't even bloody exist in your eyes.

Yeah. There are two genders, and the one you were born as is the one you are.

>>161626
The military already works as a "dreamjob" for low income kids by promising a great career and the chance to see the world, be a badass, and help the world. The floodgates are already open and after the soldiers come back broken we leave them to rot and die.

Letting openly trans people join isn't opening the floodgates, the military dehumanizes the shit out of you for weeks before you even get a gun in your hand.
Where are you getting this ridiculous assumption that openly allowing trans people to join is going to suddenly fuck up such a moronic waste of resources

>>161626
You're arguing that most attacks and murders of Trans women comes after they reveal their penis so clearly you're operating on a grade school level

>>161621
And you aren't ;)

>>161622
Assuming these people are going to fuck up the military with "needless complications" that you can't even identify reveals a deep misunderstanding on your part of how the military works.

>>161644
Either you're a troll or a Westboro baptist church retard

Trannies are like a fraction of a single percentage of the population. No one should know or care about them. The fact that the media focuses so much on such a negligible minority shows how sick society has become.

>>161641
Noone cares, it's insignificant. Go virtue signal somewhere else

>>161641
>transmen
https://tgmentalhealth.com/tag/prevalence/
The absolute closest to parity was 2:1 mtf:ftm in 2008. You dont share a large portion of the disorders and the issues ftm trans stems from are not the same. You dont exists because by becoming men we, as a culture, no longer give a shit about you.
>Durrrr muh 'preshun
Mtf gets called faggot for being men in dresses by people that hate trannies. Ftm face the same shit any slightly feminine dude faces. Its literally part of being a guy.

>>161650
Right, it comes from roving squads of hillbillies in their pickem up trucks looking for fags and niggers.
http://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017
22 people in 2016 were killed while being trans. As of this article its 15 for 2017. I dont want to see these people killed. I want to see them brought into society the same as any other. But part of this is accepting that society is full of shitty people and if you piss off the wrong people in the wrong way you are going to die. Thats not the way it should be but its the way it is. That said, going through a wiki of murdered transwomen there are very few motives actually listed and most of them are black on black crimes (inferred considering these happened in predominantly black communities) and quite a few are by strangers in the car/home. It doesnt take much to make the jump to believe the terrible homophobia that pervades the black community could create such a situation that the woman you went home with having a penis leads to murder.

Good. Mentally ill people should not serve in any nation's military in any capacity.

>>161657
Fuck em, don't need em

>>161453
PTSD vics have trouble getting erections. That's what the Viagra is for.

>>161631
No, I'm stating that you have a delusional disorder that doesn't allow you properly process that is being presented. Unironically you have proven my point.

>>161639
He just hasn't fucking given them the official order yet, retard.

>>161688
>oh no, they figured out that I have absolutely 0 idea what the sources I pull out actually say, better make the ridiculous assumption that they're medically delusional so that I can avoid having to face facts and change my worldview.

You do you my man, but your opinions don't change scientific fact.

>>161697
Trans people are not mentally sound

>>161297
Hey just so you know if you've ever gotten your dick sucked or fucked a girl in the ass you're a sodomite who will burn in hell too.

And if you haven't, odds are it's because you're a cuck or a manlet

>>161703
I'm going by the bible definition. Which clearly states that everyone that engages in any kind of man on man action will die. Either from gods wrath or most likely from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-related_immune_deficiency

>>161707
>everyone that engages in any kind of man on man action will die.
Is this the key to immortality?

>>161710
Sure you'll be immortal. You'll exist forever and be tortured forever. In the pits of hell.

>>161711
I'm not sure you understood what I mean.
You said man on man actions result in one dying.
Does that imply that if one doesn't engage in that, they don't die?

>>161712
No, your purpose is not to live forever like some cutsie little faggot, but to fight and die for what you believe in.

Yeah fuck transgenders. Fuck them right in the ass. Fuck them with your penis, or let them fuck you with theirs. Yum

>>161701
>everyone disagrees
The DSM V doesn't. Gender identity disorder is a recognized mental disorder that requirrs treatment. Transsexuals have a significantly higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

>>161451
So $2800 per person vs $35 per person?

>>161715
>is a recognized mental disorder that requirrs treatment

requires treatment? sure

requires treatment to "fix" gender identification to match birth certificate? nope

I mean OCD is in the DSM V, it doesn't mean you should stop washing your hands.

>>161714
stop saying "yum", it's really corny

>>161715
>The DSM V doesn't. Gender identity disorder is a recognized mental disorder that requirrs treatment.

No. Gender identity disorder is not in the DSM V.
Gender dysphoria is, and the distinction is important. The state of being trans is not a mental illness, just the effects that having a brain sex with having a mismatched body sex (gender dysphoria) is a mental illness.

>>161719
I eat at red robin a lot. YUMMM

>>161720
You are splitting hairs. The name was GID in the DSM IV and it was changed in 2013.
Either way, trannies are suffering from a recognized mental disorder. What you choose to call it is irrelevant. Mental cases that need prescription drugs are typically barred from serving.

>>161701
Do you think such organization are immune to political pressure? Homosexuality was considered a mental illness and was only removed from the DSM because of such pressure, not due to any new scientific research.

>>161722
Maybe, but it's not just semantics.
In the DSM IV, the state of being trans was considered a mental illness.
In the DSM V, it is no longer. Instead, trans people have a treatable mental illness (gender dysphoria) that can be near entirely subsided.

>>161723
>Do you think such organization are immune to political pressure?
No, but you have to prove that the change was the result of political pressure and not new research.

>Homosexuality was considered a mental illness and was only removed from the DSM because of such pressure, not due to any new scientific research.
(citation needed)

>>161722
>typically
>typically
>typically

>>161724
>No, but you have to prove that the change was the result of political pressure and not new research.

How about neither? It's not like the original classification was based on research. My understanding, being in psychology between the DSM IV and V, was they just realized it was a social stigma not an actual mental illness.

>>161713
Anon are you okay? These are your words not mine.
Why specifically did you say that man on man action gets you killed, implying that you wouldn't get killed if you avoided that.

>>161725
Yeah, it's called a waiver. People are sometimes allowed to serve despite medical complications in special cases or during wartime. Waivers for special cases are few and far between, and we're not fighting a major war at the moment.

>>161724
>that can be entirely subsided
No, they just say that they no longer have GD because they got snipped and the M on their license was changed to an F. They still have to take estrogen or test to maintain their "new gender." This is not a cure. It's legalese being put to use in medicine.

>>161729
I never said there was a cure, don't put words into my mouth. I said it was a treatable condition that can have its symptoms subsided. The fact that the treatment involves permanently taking hormone medication doesn't change that.

>>161730
If they are not cured then they are still ill. Dependencey on drugs is not a point in your favor when it comes to joining the military.

>>161731
I support the military restriction, as I've said in this thread.

I'm just arguing that being trans is not a mental illness and thus is not a valid reason to exclude trans people, contrary to what many of the posters here believe.

>>161701
how odd every reputable mental health organization agreed it was indeed a mental disorder until the rise of political correctness and threats of pulled funding unless they go with the flow

>>161732
We're going in circles.
If you have a mental disorder that requires constant treatment, you are ill.

>>161732
It's a mental illness, and after the surgery / hormone blockers - a significant health issue

>>161732
Hey man if my dyslexia and adhd are catogorized as mental illnesses so should that. Where the fuck is my rights movement,
Do you know how many fucking pills i had shoved down my throat since i was 5 right now i can take 40mg of dexadrine and not break a sweat.

>>161734
What happens with depression ex doc givespills and you get perma hooked on pills like ssri

>>161734
if my balls are cut off accidentally by a chainsaw and I have to take testosterone for the rest of my life, I'm not ill?

and if I'm schizophrenic but I don't take medication for it, I'm also not ill?

>>161747
Yes and yes

how much do taxpayers spend on dilation dildos for trans soldiers so their crotch wound doesn't heal shut?

>>161344
Medical upkeep already is a an insta ban. I tried to join chair force once and got rejected due to having epilepsy that was controlled by medication. And no I wasn't trying to fly planes.

Trans probably could join but the military is simply to inept and money strapped to deal with the extra resources it would take to treat them. The whole reason trans are getting specially drawn out like this is for political reasons.

>>161760
>The whole reason trans are getting specially drawn out like this is for political reasons.
Probably true.

Definitely agree on the upkeep being a reason to bar, but that should be the reason: the medical upkeep.

>>161760
It's a variety of factors, mostly dealing with the medical issues. But most military folk feel like the military is getting softer, more conciliatory, and is spending more time bending over for politcally correct points instead of focusing of being a military

Coming from a guy who served in the military, this is the one thing I actually agree on with Trump. My problem is this, if the trans community has a higher than average suicide rate, joining the military would only serve to exacerbate any suicidal tendencies they may have due any kind of mental trauma. If being socially rejected is enough to make a trans person swallow pills, cut their wrist or whatever, then the military will eat a fairly large majority of that community alive. Worked in medical for quite a while and actually had soldiers, marines, airmen and navy folk in my care. Had to do suicide watch on some of these people and that shit was not fun. Literally had to keep some these guys in my presence for hours making sure they didn't wander off somewhere to hurt themselves. The military is hard place and your feeling and self esteem are low on the priority list of things to fix or get done. Long ago the individual conformed to standards of the military but now the military has to conform to the standards of the individual? WTF? That just seem backwards to me. The military is not a social experiment that is meant to make you feel special. Biggest problem with the discussion as whole is that trans people don't ask for the genuine thoughts and opinions from both sides (both agreeing and opposing) of what "cis" people think and feel about the whole ordeal. The moment someone agrees with their side, investigating opposing opinions simply stops. A lot of Civilians complaining on here have no idea what service in the military entails. The military also keeps people with depression, asthma, flat feet, overweight people, bed wetters, people with lots of driving tickets, people who smoke weed and many others from enlisting. This doesn't mean that these are examples of bad people. But if military standards keep becoming malleable based on the feelings of the public as a whole or any special interest group then quality sooner or later will be on a gradual decline.

>>161823
I read that

>>161823
I agree with you the the standards shouldn't change and the military shouldn't cater to special interest groups in the name of equality.
However, I disagree with painting the entirety of the transgender demographic to be unstable, suicidal, and in need of high medical maintenance.unstable, suicidal, and in need of high medical maintenance, they should be barred from entry, because those are the problems that will interfere with serving.
If an individual is indeed
Simply being a tranny won't do that, it's the associated problems that (apparently) many of them have, so they should ban those specific problems. If that turns out to eliminate 95% of trannies from joining, so be it.

>>161847
The problem of taking transgender for the military is the potential downside is huge. the potential upside is nothing.
It's simply not worth it.
But there are plenty of other jobs beside the military. Trannies can still be the 2$ drag queen cocksucker at the local carnival like they always have been.

>>161823
Former 68W here.
I appreciate your logic, but those with suicidal tendencies or proven mental instability are already weeded out during entrance and processing (and also IADT).
Obviously it's not perfect, people with issues slip through all the time.
At a basic level, the well adjusted transgender is going to more dependable in combat than the guy who lied about his untreated bipolar disorder.

so, should we bar them? Maybe not. Maybe we should take extra care and make sure that the potential soldier is going to useful in the first place (mentally).

>>161853
By that logic, we shouldn't have allowed women into the military. And we also shouldn't have allowed blacks into the military. Or gays.
The stigma against it is grounded in society, which over time has come to accept black people, then women, and now gays, and soon trannies.

>>161867
Exactly. Women, just like faggots, DO NOT belong in the military.

>>161203
has trump said anything about passing actual legislation about this?

>>161870
Then neither do blacks.
There was a huge stigma against letting them join, people didn't want to be in the military alongside a black person. We had more than enough white men to fight, so why let black people in? There are no upsides, not like they were running out of people and the downsides were enormous.

>>161882
You got a point there. Blacks shouldn't just not be in the military, they shouldn't even exist in the first place. Only the welfare state is keeping them alive. Without the trillions in transfer payments stolen from productive whites and given to black ghettos they would have died out long ago.

I'll admit that I don't know much on this issue but does it have to be a blanket ban?
Could he have at least included some exception from folks already serving?
Can't they be considered on a case-by-case basis, since "trans" can mean quite a lot of things, and maybe able to serve in some capacities?

>>161882
Are you saying blackness is a mental illness with a 60% survival rate?

>>161914
I was going for the social barrier of white people not wanting black people in the military for racial reasons.

>>161917
Stop comparing everything to slavery

You liberals ruined everything

Blacks got fucked by slavery, and affirmative action made up for that. But now you assholes pretend that all brown people were slaves in America. Even women. It's all meaningless bullshit now.

Go die in a $50 million transgender bathroom you piece of progressive garbage

>>161917
Black person isn't a detriment like a tranny.

Let go of the additional costs and needed medical and psychological care.

In combat, even the most stable, strong people can crack with the amount of stress you're under. Now you want someone who's having known issues who's getting special treatment and compensation thrown into the mix?

>>161921
>Black person isn't a detriment like a tranny.
Both are serious genetic defects that lead to a life of pain and suffering for most affected.

>>161918
It had nothing to do with slavery.
My point was that it's irrational to refuse a tranny (barring health problems) for social reasons. It's the same reason why white soldiers didn't want black soldiers.

>>161921
I never advocated for letting people with mental health issues into the military.
There are trannies who wouldn't crack under the pressure.

>>161913
This doesn't make sense to anyone because it's only a political trick to gain support from the Alt-Right, who defended Sessions over Trump. Bannon told Trump he needed to do this so that he can have the political leverage from his base to fire Sessions to fire Mueller.

The cost argument has already been debunked, since the military only spends $8.4 million per year for the full medical care of all trans serving. Meanwhile, they spend $41 million on Vigra and about $20 million on Cialis per year.

A little while ago some hard right Republicans went to him and told him to not let the army pay for the transition surgery for trans members. So, Mattis said he wanted to review the military's trans policy for 6 months. Instead, Trump just went ahead and banned them outright, without any plan put into place at all. He didn't tell anyone about it before the tweet. His own staff was caught off guard, even the Pentagon did not know. Plus, the military put out a statement that they will maintain the status quo and treat all members serving with respect.

The Republicans love the military and by doing this he basically pinched them in the scrot. Especially since one of the members that was on the Seal team six that killed Bin Laden is trans. So, even hard right war hawks have denounced this.

>>161929
Doesn't matter. Army makes blanket policy as a general rule.

Also dysphoria is a mental precursor to transgenderism. So right off the batt you're disqualified.

>>161617
We know

>>161931
>One of the members who killed bin laden was trans
No, debunked internet story
>Viagra costs more than trans
No, occupy Democrats meme campaign

>>161929
I'm sorry were trans people ever enslaved and fored to build an America?

No. They weren't. Now stop comparing the plight of my people to HYPER XXXL narcissistic sexual deviants.

Gave you ever known a tranny? Of course not. That's why you think they're normal people.

Maybe you know one of those furries, with the tattoos? Do you think they can serve in the military too? Stfu

>>161965
Omg how can you hurted furry feels this way?

Don't ypu remember slavery? AND THE HOLOCAUST?

geez republicans ur on the wrong side of history

>>161965
It has nothing to do with slavery, it's irrational social stigma.

>>161235
They actually aren't all that useful anymore, and especially not if they have such a high potential to be a liability

I don't understand trannies, there's two arguments I hear
>gender =/= sex
In which case, based on their definition of gender, the logical conclusion should be that gender doesn't exist. And if it doesn't have anything to do with sex, why do so many still transition?
The other is
>I have a Xsex body but a Ysex brain!
How can a brain have a sex? Are they implying their brain is literally programmed with a separate set of DNA that has the opposite set of chromosomes?

>>161999
By the definitions I've seen, and the ones I think are useful: sex is biological. You're either XX, XY, or XXY (Klinefelter Syndrome). I'm pretty certain there's no changing your sex as that's down at the DNA level.
This is as far as the government should be concerned, in my opinion.
Gender has more to do with social and cultural differences. For example, in some parts of the world, men and women are expected to act a certain way. In others, they'd be expected to act a different way. Would manly behavior in the US be more/less valid than manly behavior in Japan? I say no, they're cultural/social differences associated with one's sex.
I personally don't see a problem with men wanting to behave like women. However, I think they should acknowledge their sex, not deny it.
>How can a brain have a sex?
AFAIK, there are differences between the male and female brain. Wouldn't be terribly surprising if something went awry in one's development and they had aspects of the opposite sex's brain.

>>162003
If they have these qualities we associate with the opposite sex, all that proves is that they are, in fact, not intrinsic to the opposite sex.

>>162003
You can't change your sex at all. You can take medication and have surgical procedures to help you better mimic the sex you believe you are, but not actually 'change'. Our sex is programmed into every single cell in our body and no amount of hormones or surgery will change that.

>>162004
I think that might be true.
I've heard some people talk about innate differences between the sexes, but I can't really comment to their validity.
I think the possibility is definitely likely. I'd prefer to see legistlation/social stances on that to be open. For example, men are more likely to have the capabilities to be a CEO of a huge company, but women /can/ do it to, it's just much less likely. In that case, we shouldn't make laws or think that women can't do it, just leave it open and if a woman with the capabilities comes along, she shouldn't be barred from doing it.

>>162006
I fully agree with this, to the extent of my knowledge in biology.

Who wants a bitch boy that wants to cut their shit & never stop talking to have their back? Don't give me that shit of it's normal. God made you to be a dumb fuck.. This does not give you the right to run with the big boys sexulizing how cute and sexy you are. Military is for protecting the constitution and fucking up anyone who thinks they want to play games...

>>161999
The implication is that transsexuals have masculine/feminine brains concordant with their "true" gender. This argument is based off the apparent structural/volumetric/hormonal similarities between a transsexual brain and the brain of a normal person of the opposite sex.

The problem with this argument is that the characteristics of a functioning human brain are not always defined by sexual dimorphism.

Woohoo. So when the issue the draft I'll pretend to be gay then continue being a neet

>>162161
Gays are allowed, trans are not

>>162161
You will receive a free sexchange on the spot. Then be dismissed home.

Legit question, can I serve in the military if I have autism?

>>162187
Not only that but you MUST have autism if you want to join the navy. No normies allowed on boats.

>>162192
Fuck yeah, I'm enlisting pronto.

>>162193
If asked if you have any mental illness history just say NO SIR I WILL FIT IN PERFECTLY WITH THE OTHER RETARDS

>>162195
W-what if I s-stutter?

>>161203
To hell with Section 9, Klinger finally gets to go home.

>>161360
>Roleplaying that you're biologically a different sex in which you mutilate yourself to continue the RP is not a mental condition

>>162004
no trait is absolute,
there are masculine traits (more common in men) feminine traits (more common in women),
but being masculine is not the same as being male, and being feminine is not the same as being female.

>>162003
thats a terrible definition of gender i see quite often,
we already have a word for that and its called "gender roles".

I honestly don't know how to feel. It affects such a small subset of an already small minority. But at the same time if they wanna enlist and serve they should be allowed to do so.

>>162260
beta male

>>161203
Honestly I'm in the army and I don't have a problem with trannies being pogs.
Its more just about the stupid fact they get all this free surgery crap right after basic like they've done something to earn that shit.

>>162187
Military is actually a good profession for people with mild autism.

Just another politician forcing his social politics on the military rather than doing what makes it stronger. Shameful.

>>162916
Obama?

>>162923
Good one

>>162898
Good attention to detail, social ties are more difficult. Yeah I could see that.

Although I've dealt with several active and retired military members recently and believe me, they have a little more than mild autism.

>>161297
Preach it!

Sorry, we're not accepting transgender people in the military anymore because you cost too much to accommodate and I need that money to fly back and forth to Mar-a-Lago.

>>161298
doesnt matter if they get screenings or not. The suicides happen after they become Trans

>ITT Men in skirts scare Anon

You know what's funny? All Trump did was post these tweets, and not pass any legislation

Soo trannys can still serve in the military until Trump stops talking out of his orange butthole and gives the courts some damn legislation.

>>165923
The bible clearly says all faggots must die. It's a simple rule.

>>166088
The Bible was made when knowledge was scarce. Stop enforcing religion on others, you don't need for ethics and morals. And I say this as someone who viciously wants to remove kebab.

>>164197
>measuring cost in absolute numbers
Shiggy diggy

Divide & Conquer! Plain and Simple!

>>166088
Yeah, do you avoid shellfish too? 'cause I ain't giving up lobster b/c it makes the sky daddy mad and you bumsore because you think you have le personal connection with him.

>inb4 muh jaysus said it was okay misinterpretation

>>161373

Based post.

>>166140
>Do not call unclean what He has made clean
Granted you arnt supposed to stone gays anymore either, just wag your finger at them and let god do the punishment after death. Anything else is American Protestants being retards.

>>164197
Maybe they don't want mentally ill people in the military. Trans people are mentally ill.

>>166305
>There are people in the military... right now. Right now, my famalam. There are people in the military at this very moment right now in this present time in the year of our lord 2017... that only joined the military to legally shoot people.
>B-BUT MUH TRANNIES ARE MENTALLY ILL AHURHRURHURRRRHRUR

>>166305
>Maybe they don't want mentally ill people in the military.
There's already checks and balances in place to make sure of that.

It's called basic training. If people aren't competent, mentally or physically, they get dropped.
This is literally a nonissue.

>>166322
>Implying being trans shouldn't immediately disqaulify you

You don't understand. Being trans is synonymous with mental illness

>>166319
Nice Strawman, but that doesn't change the fact that trannies are mentally ill and have no place in the military.

>>166322
Then why even let trannies in? Being a tranny is the mental illness.

>>166377
>>166420
It's only an issue if it undermines their ability to serve. If they meet the functional standards why not let them fight and die like everyone else?

>>166419
> trannies are mentally ill and have no place in the military.
So are christians but we let them in just fine

>>166566
>>>/b/

>>166565
Being trans undermines their ability to serve

>Why not let them fight and die
Same reason the spartans didn't allow the hunchback to join, weakens the line

>>166567
>muh spaghetti man in the sky

>>166597
>Being trans undermines their ability to serve
In the case of a ftm tranny, they'd be better than a normal female soldier, and possibly some male soldiers, because of the testosterone injections.

>>166605
Still better than nigger spaghetti in your rectum.

>>166612
If the only upside to christianity is that it's better than nigger rape, I got bad news for you

>>166618
>missing the joke and the point
Of course the cuck doesn't understand a dime.

>>166620
there was no joke, buddy, I hate to break it to you

>>166611
But then I have to look at a frakenstein science experiment, gross

good for them i guess? who the fuck wants to serve anyway

>>161207
Might as well be...

>>161213
Hey guess what? Our tax dollars won't pay for mentally ill people to get their dicks chopped off, and the whole country agrees.

>>167057
The military pays more for viagra.
Seems like a stupid line to draw.

>>167530
T. aussie

>>167530
yeah but those people aren't mentally ill. Keep mentally ill trannies out is important.

>>161207
He is not God, but he is Lord Commander in Chief.

>>161214
>the military uses weapons and ships and trans people are useless?
Apparently so are the weapons and ships they've been developing.

>>166319

>There are two problems, let's be fair and solve neither

>>167537
>mentally ill trannies
>citation needed
If they just wanted to keep "mentally ill" people out, there's already regulations about that.
You're just so threatened by anybody that's not exactly like you that it gives you anxiety just to think about them existing.
Who's the real headcase?

>>168285
Trannies

>>168286
And trump voters
amirite or amirite folks

>>168248
>There are two problems, let's be 'tarded and solve the lesser

>>168503

Baby steps, nigga

will this actually reduce military spending?

>>168506
Technically yes.

One of the only things I was proud from Trump was the fact he wasn't a closeted homosexual who hated LGBT rights. He came out supporting which was a big middle finger to most of the Republican establishment. But guess what? Once a liar, always a fucking liar.

>>168502
No

>>168545
Do you honestly think trannies and stable enough for war?

They have like a 50% suicide rate WITHOUT ptsd.

that's shitty. I wouldn't mind if trannies would be dying for us

>>168553
The military has psyche evaluations before you can even go to training. Saying Trans are mentally ill because of a high suicide right is absurd. First the military has measures and checks to make sure ANY mentally ill person shouldn't be able to join. Second, obviously their a perfectly sane Trans people. Like god damn. I'm glad not all Anon are like you.

>>168553
Basic training weeds out the people, normal or otherwise, who can't take the stress.
Obviously the only weirdos that want to join the military are the weirdos that apply to join the military.
Your average tranny isn't going to bother, but the ones who do are probably capable.

>>168573
>Saying Trans are mentally ill because of a high suicide right is absurd
Are you sure?

It's not just a matter of mental stability. Even diabetics can't join, iirc.

All kinds of conditions disqualify one from fighting in war.

Trannies are suffering right now. It's disgusting, your priorities. They're killing themselves, war is hell, and you're concerned about some bullshit that doesn't matter.

>>168574
I never thought of it that way. We shouldn't disqualifying ANYONE based on prejudice :) so what if a tranny has diabetes and heel spurs, let them be judged only on their own merits! Jk

>>168580
Thank you. You said it way better than I could.

>>168580
Wow, the mental gymnastics required to consider cognitive and physical issues to be the same thing.
bravo

>>161203
Are the uniforms flattering enough etc?

>>168603
they have a disability relative to the military: it's called not being male

>>168603
The fact this thread isn't settled yet shows how mentally I'll you and the left are as well

>>168627
>I'll you

You'll me what? Threaten to beat me and everyone else up in thirty years when le day of le rope happens?

It's like a playground bully giving you an IOU for an asskicking. Just kek

>>168627
Wow, mentally ill to care for another human being. Forgive us. It's people like you that literally make lives miserable, I wouldn't even call you a troll just a narcissist.

>>168666
You can care for a population and still not let them sign up. It isn't a right to serve, and thinking that a population with a suicide rate several times higher than those with depression (which also excludes you from service) is fit for service is deluded.

>>168674
Will we already talked about this in the thread. It's a weak argument at best. Here's the tldr version.
1) Military already has psyche evaluations
2)Trans that join have to be checked like everyone else
3) Mentally ill? More like attacked endlessly by assholes like you. Takes courage to fight for you're country more than I or you could ever have.

We see through you're fucked up thinking. And If you're a Troll, you're a failing one.

>>168674
It's literally not even an issue. What few trannies are in the military are doing fine and passed all of the requirements. There isn't this big issue with "mentally ill trannies" reeking havoc in the military, killing themselves on duty, or inflating the budget; it's a fucking boogeyman.

The only reason we're talking about this in the first place is because Trump needed yet another distraction so people wouldn't realize what a dumbfuck worthless president he is. This discussion is a smoke screen and nothing more.

>>168674
YEAH BUT SOME PPL WITH MANIC DEPRESSION CAN WON'T KILL THEMSELVES.

BEHOLD, LIBERAL WISDOM.

GENERALITIES ARE RACIST. NOT ALL THING ARE LIKE THAT.

CEASE BEHOLDING.

>>168838
trannies themselves are a smokescreen, considering what a tiny fraction of the population they are and how obvious the mental illness is.

my intuition always said that all this new age mental illness being pushed is just to distract the left into beating the drums for a cause that ultimately doesn't mean anything, instead of doing something meaningful like wealth inequality or other things that actually have meaning to most of the population.

>>168666
NON ISSUE

>>161240
>Oh theres a battle going on, lemme just change my vagina dilator first so it doesnt close from the stress
>Oh shucks, I forgot to shave the inside of my vagina, it will just be 20 minutes
>Oh commander, when is the next shipment of estrogen arriving?

Trans people, like women, and even more so, are fucking useless on the front lines. Trans should just fuck off but women would be much better served as nurses or cooks or some other role outside of actual combat.

>>171250
You're thinking of the wrong kind of trans.
I bet most are f2m. Like said previously, with all of the test injections they're probably more fit than a lot of natural men.

>>171260
You can't train the thickness of your skull or the strength of your tendons.
There is a reason god made two models. one big, ugly smelly for combat. and the other one for reproduction.

Why is this so hard for you Commies to accept?

>>161203
>no one clicked the link
(You) earned this OP.

>>161613
From personal experience, PTSD is real and it affects first responders, trauma nurses and combat veterans. But it was and to some degree still is the diagnosis du jour of the psych community. A large portion of combat veterans had something in their past, something they brought into the military especially during the 202K (Marines). I know some hard core warriors, men who two,centuries ago we would have sung about and built epic legends around who have PTSD. They seemed to be the ones better able to deal with it. It was the ones who had issues to begin with, who had help creating their plethora of symptoms that whined and complained and need every thing from a new iPad to a monkey to cope in the real world. Of course most improved dramatically when they receive their disability benefits. This is why you try to keep people with mental or physical issues out. They relaxed standards during the "surge." Took years to fix the problems from that. Social experimentation with the military is a mistake.
As for cost issues, I retired after 30 years. Every year we have to fight to keep asshats like Paul Ryan and Chuckie Schumer from cutting out earned medical benefits, because of exploding medical costs in the military. So that $8.4 mil for transgender means means cuts else where. We only get so much a year for active, reserve, dependent and retiree healthcare.

>>171260
Mentally ill npeople don't belong in the military.

Good he actually did it. We shouldn't normalize this kind of mental Illness. In fact we should start going after doctors who perform these operations.

>>171581
Having done lots of blue collar work ptsd is rampent even out side the military
> Guys all joke and commissrate about child hood abuse.

> watch guy get whacked by a belt that broke from a belt sander he has some blood on his face
> reply "no worries it isnt as hard as my dad hit me with his belt."

Ptsd comes in many forms, a lot of guys try to wear their pain and suffering like a badge. You know the guys who have been through shit they generally talk about it with a forced laugh and a smile and generally arent bothered by much.

>>171262
Wait what if we only allow f to male trannies in combat and allow men to transition to female afterwards.

Bonus if we get tech that allows men to actually carry and develop children.
Easy mode just give everyone steroids.

I think we should just let imaginary people fight the wars for us. After all, they're people too and have rights just like the rest of us right? I mean, why should physically fit men who kick serious ass get all the fun and all the honor? Shouldn't imaginary people, stuffed animals, road signs, potted plants, and three-toed sloths get a chance to get a medal too? NO YOU DUMBASSES, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE BEST CANDIDATES FOR THE JOB. AN EFFEMINATE MALE IS JUST BARELY QUALIFIED TO SERVE IN COMBAT...IF HE'S BIG ENOUGH! COME ON YOU DUMBASSES!

>>171823
the mentally ill are the only people dumb enough to apply
>;^)

>>171898
You're a hysterical reductionist faggot.