Health Care Overhaul Collapses as Two More Republican Senators Defect

Can republicucks get anything right?

>>158348

Passing this would not have been getting anything right other than serving their billionaire donors.

We finally have insurance that works like every other modern country. If we have to go the private insurance market rout, there are some basic immutable economics that have to be recognized. Comprehensive health insurance isn't affordable for everyone unless everyone buys some. We don't have to speculate about that, we had already tried it.

Republicans have been handed the golden opportunity to improve upon it. Stuff like fixing how insurers lock out certain regions from coverage to maintain competition in private insurance markets. That was supposed to get done when dems controlled the exec branch but didn't because repubs controlled the legislature and wanted to score some cheap political points.

>>158349
Honestly...if 20,000 poor Americans died per day because they didn't have health insurance, I'd feel really really good about that.

I see no reason to give universal healthcare. It should be bought as a service just like any other, using insurance, no matter how expensive it is.

>>158378

>15 and edgy

>>158387
>Not an argument

>>158388

>surprised when a low investment post gets a low investment response

>>158388
Actually kind of is an argument. If you're happy about 20,000 Americans dying per day, then you've outed yourself as a sociopath, maybe even a psychopath.
You do not have the ability to understand why HI is different from other types of insurance because you can't feel empathy or sympathy for others. If someone has to explain to you why 20,000 dying per day for something so trivial is bad, you're beyond fixing.
But since this is 4chan, you're likely underaged and have little understanding of America's health care system or any health care system for that matter.

>>158393
There's no need to feel sympathy for others, especially the poor. Especially when you realize that most of the poor are of a certain predisposition to crime.

Therefore, the poor dying due to healthcare costs is actually good for the entire country.

Even then, I would agree that I have no sympathy or empathy for anyone complaining about healthcare costs, no matter their situation. Insurance is there for a reason. If you didn't plan for your hospital visit, its your own damn fault.

>>158394
You know what else would be good for the country? You killing yourself. You should consider it if you really do care about America otherwise you're just a filthy liar.

>>158349
The ACA is the closest "full" coverage Healthcare plan possible under a private market structure. In fact, President Obama deliberately chose a conservative plan for the sake of bipartisanship. The original structure for the ACA was penned by the conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation. Also, it is far less imposing than a similar legislation passed by then, Governor Mitt Romney of Massachusetts. Governor Romey once called people without Healthcare "free riders," because they still require medical services but wait till the last minute to get them at the ER. Without a medical history the ER docs run every wasteful test possible just to be sure they don't miss anything. When the ER patient without health care can't pay, the bill gets distributed to those with insurance, raising their premiums.

Have you guys ever seen Medicaid recepients in red districts speak about Obamacare? They always seem to describe an issue with being under-insured. Neither the House nor the Senate bill address that--in fact they make it way worse.

It's really unfortunate to see Republican voters believe that their Republican representatives are actually trying to help them.

And then President Trump, so desperate for any win, tweets that the Senate should just repeal the bill now and replace later. He is just so dumb.

>>158400

Never underestimate the ability of the GOP's constituency to actively eat the shit that is actively being thrown at them by the GOP itself.

>>158394
Then I hope you remember you wrote this if you ever find yourself mortally ill and incapable of obtaining medical treatment. Or are you one of those welfare wingnuts who thinks personal responsibility applies to everyone but themselves?

>>158394
>14 and edgy

>>158394
https://youtu.be/sgpa7wEAz7I

It's hard for even the middle class to pay for healthcare m8. Only the rich have seen significant wage rises as healthcare costs skyrocket. People don't choose to have pre-existing conditions, and the insurance markets pre-ACA were very good at blocking people whose medical costs have high actuarial values. A diabetic mechanic working 40 plus hours doesn't deserve to be skewered by medical costs.

>>158414
>25% of the country still believes Russia didn't interfere in the election because a serial liar told them

>control all 3 branches of government
>still fail utterly

Lol. See you mongs in 2018.

>>158449
>People don't choose to have pre-existing conditions

People with incurable pre-existing conditions should not receive healthcare at all. Those two girls born without brains, only the stems? Should not receive care. Mentally disabled people who need 24 hour care? Should not receive care.

If we stop caring for the permanently disabled and mentally ill, we will free up a ton of medical services for people who can actually afford it and deserve it. No more illegal immigrants in our emergency rooms. No more homeless people in our emergency rooms. Only people who deserve to be there.

Keeping those with serious incurable illnesses or developmental defects alive for any significant amount of time is bad for society as a whole and ruins the genetic integrity of our planet.

If we stop caring for the lame and poor all together, America will be a far better place. Yet, the evil left just wants to give out more unearned goodie bags.

>>158397
Not an argument.

>>158466
>People with incurable pre-existing conditions should not receive healthcare at all. Those two girls born without brains, only the stems? Should not receive care. Mentally disabled people who need 24 hour care? Should not receive care.
>doesn't give a reason why not

Not an argument, kid.

>>158466
>t. Psychopath

You're parents should have aborted you.

>>158378
>>158394
>>158466
Still 100% Edgy.

Go ahead and argue that Capitalism is a perfect system that weed out and enslave the weak while the strong ascends to godhood.

They should be fucking hung for they're treason against the party. Fucking RINOS I swear to God.

>>158394
*tips*

>>158451
Complete republican collapse soon.

It's like all they have known how to do for the past 8 years is be obstructionist shitheads and have completely forgot how to govern.

It's hilarious.

>>158469
Except that the next paragraph and the sentence after that argues that very point.

You're not even trying. It would be like if you opened a book that said "Scubs are good." and you said "Not an argument" without reading through it.

>>158486
Ok. It is. Everything pales in comparison.

>>158482
>You are parents should have aborted you
Seeking a better America, no matter the cost cannot be psychopathic so long as it results in a better and less crime driven society than the previous generation. Ceasing care for poor people (particularly blacks) will result in a 60% reduction in crime.

>>158490
I'm no GOP fan but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The US is a two party systems and it's not like Dems are very popular either. The GOP hasn't controlled all three branches like they do now since Hoover and they will now likley own the scotus for decades to come.

>>158492
So you're okay with the police state.

>>158466
>We should just kill everyone with inferior genetics
>The left is evil for raising taxes on those making more than 250k annually
Sometimes I mull over the mistakes I've made as a person. Then I realize people unironically believe this. You make it real easy to believe that the moderate Republicans/Democrats have the moral high ground.

You do realize that the whole healthcare effort failed because of the far right? I know you think the government should only exist to prevent gay marriage, to police the world (or at least the parts that have oil), and to tax the poor to pay the rich, but the political reality is that Republicans are going to have to shift left on healthcare. Trying to pass a bill this conservative/unpopular will only result in a midterm bloodbath that passes the baton to the Democrats. And they're just going to shift even further to the left. The Susan Collins of the world recognize this, and are willing to compromise rather than forfeit any Republican say in healthcare. But the tea party asshats don't think billions of regressive tax cuts and deficit cuts are conservative enough. It's like a drowning man turning down a passing boat's offer to save him, because he's waiting on a bigger boat. The bigger boat isn't coming, and now every GOP member of Congress is saddled with a broken promise seven years in the making. I can already imagine the 2018 attack ads. Now the president is saying that we're going to purposefully fuck up healthcare so the other side has no choice but to fix it. MAGA.

This is prefect. Exactly what I was hoping for all along.
Remove this Socialist welfare program disguising itself as a healthcare law and replace it with nothing.

This was also Trumps plan all along.

>>158515
In the coming years it'll probably be replaced with single payer then it'll be really funny watching your libertardian tears.

>>158520
look at the debt. Single payer will not happen for the simple reason that no on can afford it.
>but muh Europe
They are all beating eaten alive by their health system.

No. The future will be pay to get service. Same as any other business.

>>158515
>Winners from this plan: a few wealthy people
>Losers: the millions of people who lose insurance and those with preexisting conditions that face financial ruin
Since the Democrats started it, everyone will realize that it's their fault that healthcare is shit again for the elderly, the bottom half of income earners, and the sick. Trump is such a strong leader for boldly stating that he's going to make healthcare so bad that so that the political opposition without control of any of the government branches has fix it. A real leader knows how to delegate.

Too bad the Democrats are just obstructionists, for the last 8 years they've only complained about the other side's policies without providing an alternative that the public finds acceptable outside of their wealthy donors.

Once people realize the vision of the GOP is grounded in pragmatic policies that improve the lives of the middle class they're sure to rush to the ballots to show their support. I'll bet $20 that Trump's approval ratings triple overnight, and that Mitch McConnell is given a parade in San Francisco.

>>158523
>Being eaten alive
>Citation needed
Medicaid is cost effective though
https://ccf.georgetown.edu/2015/04/20/study-medicaid-benefits-well-worth-costs/

>>158529
>>Losers: the millions of people who lose insurance and those with preexisting conditions that face financial ruin

Prove that they will lose their insurance. Fake news outlets have been citing something to the song of "20 million" without a shred of evidence or any data explaining how they got this number.

Also, we're going back to the way things were before Obama. If people can't handle things the way they were 8 years ago, they've become too dependent on entitlements they never deserved in the first place.

>>158538
That's from the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office you fucking retard.

>>158541
Ah I see. No source?
No facts?
You might call it...fake news then?

>>158538
20 million gained insurance under Obamacare. That was in the ballpark of how many people would lose coverage according to CBO predictions on the various Congressional plans. It's hard to predict the future, but the CBO has done a damn good job http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/cbos-obamacare-predictions-how-accurate/

>Too dependent on entitlements
I suppose it's the fault of the entire working class that healthcare costs have skyrocketed over the last generation while income gains have skipped the lower and middle classes and gone straight to the top few percent of income earners. Surely if they had worked harder the economy wouldn't have changed and consolidated all the wage growth into the hands of a few. Heaven forbid the government subsidize the insurance of the working class in lieu of the collective bargaining power they've been denied since the midcentury that allowed them to make livable wages.

>>158538
I like your double line reddit spacing. I like it a lot.
How about you leave this place in peace and go shoot your heroin somewhere else.

>>158544
If the so-called working class doesn't getting "skipped" as you say, perhaps they should actually be a WORKING class and make their own businesses. Here's the bigger problem. You kids are assuming its good to give people healthcare. You have yet to prove that. The first thing you need to demonstrate is that people who cannot afford healthcare deserve it at all, yet no one has ever been able to do that because we will quickly see just what kind of people inhabit hospitals and pharmacies.

>>158544
>http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/cbos-obamacare-predictions-how-accurate/

Did you really just use a biased fake news outlet in response to a question on the authenticity of fake news outlets? Really?

>>158543
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52849
>Effects on Health Insurance Coverage

>CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 15 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under current law—primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated. The increase in the number of uninsured people relative to the number projected under current law would reach 19 million in 2020 and 22 million in 2026. In later years, other changes in the legislation—lower spending on Medicaid and substantially smaller average subsidies for coverage in the nongroup market—would also lead to increases in the number of people without health insurance. By 2026, among people under age 65, enrollment in Medicaid would fall by about 16 percent and an estimated 49 million people would be uninsured, compared with 28 million who would lack insurance that year under current law.

Kys

>>158545
>Rather than respond to an argument, I'm going to call you a redditfag
Thanks m8, I'm sure you're insulting me rather than challenging me because you have such an implictly obvious argument that it's not worth spelling out. Stay salty. By the way, the heroine/opiate crisis is primarily affecting uneducated whites. Now who did they vote for?

>>158547
It is good to give people healthcare. http://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fccf.georgetown.edu%2F2015%2F04%2F20%2Fstudy-medicaid-benefits-well-worth-costs%2F

So every mechanic is wrong for not opening their own business and should be denied healthcare? Every cab driver should get a business degree and own their own cab company? Listen, I don't think someone should just take an entry level job and ride it out till they retire, but it seems like you're suggesting anyone who isn't holding an upper management job is guilty of laziness. Not only is that not true, but there's only so many of those jobs the economy can support. Blue collared labor is necessary and honest. I'm not gonna say a 30 year old construction worker is lazy when i just punch numbers.

Reminder that socialized medicine has failed in Europe and Canada and anything a shill says contrary is a lie

>>158554
>reminder that my shilling is a-ok though

herp to the derp my man.

>>158549
>>>158551
We can't all be redpilled by Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh. Sure, Fox news, the NYT, the Washington times, factcheck, and WaPo are all obviously biased, none of them completely disconnect from reality. If you're so butthurt get your news from the wsj or Reuters. But that doesn't change the objective predictions of the CBO and the objective number of people who became insured. Don't blame me if throwing facts around infringes on your safe space.

>>158551
>primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

So the primary reason these "people" won't be insured is because they won't have to pay a fine for not having insurance? So not being insured rests entirely on their shoulders. Which makes it a non-issue. If they didn't have insurance 8 years ago, too fucking bad.

>>158552
>So every mechanic is wrong for not opening their own business and should be denied healthcare?
If they are the kind of person who works at a national mechanic chain and simultaneously complains about the people at the top of their company? Then absolutely. Also the source you listed adds college attainment (and therefore higher taxes) to the list. When we need just the opposite right now. 6 million trade school jobs are not being filled because of the horrendous college bubble.

>>158554
>Healthcare in Canada is shit
Why do Canadians like their healthcare more than us then?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx
>American satisfaction with healthcare at roughly 25%
>Canadian satisfaction at 57%

If not for a captcha, a Russian bot could say something much more intelligent and much more effective. How does that make you feel?

>he litteraly did a dinner with big wigs who were already on his dick for this healthcare bill
>not one of them was a person on the fence for this bill
>he basically surrounded himself in yes man in a attempt to pass a bill
How is it that a man who's written a bool called "art of the deal" seems to be so shitty at negotiations in his own backyard?

>>158557
>Nevermind the reduced levels of depression for people on Medicaid, giving people Medicaid is bad because they go to college more
>It's still people's faults for not making enough to pay for healthcare

So to properly pay for medical expenses, you practically need a college degree. But too many people are getting degrees and not enough are going into trade schools. So to make people stop going to college, we'll take away their Medicaid. Fuck raising the wages off working class jobs to the point where people are willing to do them, the unions are evil.

>>158561
>reduced levels of depression
No. I saw that. I just don't like the idea of poor and "working class" people recovering from depression.

>>158561
>Fuck raising the wages off working class jobs to the point where people are willing to do them, the unions are evil.
Electricians and plumbers make upwards of 100k in their first year. What you're talking about is service jobs, which should either be automated or remain at a low level. Raising the minimum wage is a terrible idea and what the evil left always forgets is that you aren't just raising the wages of everyone who makes $9.50, you're raising the wage of everyone who makes between $9.50-$14.99/hr in search of this magical and evil $15/hr which cannot be financially reconciled. And yes, Unions are evil, but not because of healthcare. Because they're lazy and abusive. You were sarcastic and yet I still agree with everything you said.

>>158564
>And then we make the working class depressed so they raise their children improperly and continue the cycle of poverty. Their misery fuels my superiority complex.
>The left is evil and I have the moral high ground
Whew, how do you function with that much misanthropy? The fact of the matter is minimum wage is a sin in microeconomics, but not in macroeconomics. http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/min_wage.htm
Study after study shows mild effects on employment and costs from minimum wage increases, and substantial benefits to workers.

>But muh Seattle study
When you find a study that doesn't compare half the workers of Seattle to some other hodunk Washington towns, I might take those findings seriously. As is the Seattle economy is booming.

>>158564
>Plumbers and electricians make 100k their first year
>Telling blatant lies makes me right!
Feel free to prove me wrong with some sources. I won't be holding my breath.

>>158572
Yes. It is the moral high ground to keep poor people poor because certain people are predisposed to crime, regardless of income. If those demographics are allowed into middle class or wealthy communities, it will spell ruin for the people in this country who actually matter.

>>158579
I mean, I can't argue with you if your philosophy is that poor people are genetically inferior.

It is a sin to despise one’s neighbor, but blessed is the one who is kind to the needy.
— Proverbs 14:21

>>158579
>>why are they predisposed to crime?
>lack of opportunity elsewhere
>>fuck it give em even less

Ok then.

>>158587
Except black men commit the same rate of violent crime regardless of income.

Really ignites the cogitators.

>>158590
What about poor whites? Ya know, basically you and everyone you know?

>>158593
Whites don't commit 60% of violent crime despite being 6% of the population.

>>158590
>Let's crowd black people into one part of town, rob them of career opportunities and then call them animals when they commit more crime
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/milwaukee-segregation-wealthy-black-families.html

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/08/milwaukee-shows-what-segregation-does-to-american-cities.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/03/05/390723644/why-is-milwaukee-so-bad-for-black-people

I don't think there's an active conspiracy to segregate black people from society. But when an ethnic group is effectively cut off (geographically and economically) from the more prosperous ethnic group, you can't expect them to prosper.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28

>>158595
I mean with regards to keeping them poor. I know you're dying to share your weird stats at every turn but they're not even relevant here. We're talking about keeping poor people poor since poors, as a group, are more predisposed to crime.

>>158555
>>158558
>>158559
>>158587
>>158596
>>158597


Reddit Gold™ has been deposited into your shareblue account

We thank you for Correcting The Record™

>>158632
>why argue when memes are the best Trump defense now?

>>158652
Memes have always been the best Trump defense.

When one gets stale they just move on to another one.

>But her emails
>But Obama
>Drain the swamp
>Soros/Shareblue
>MAGA
>Cuck/Cuckservative/RINO
>SJW
>Build the wall/Mexico will pay for it

Etc etc

>>158378
Except that's not how insurance works. The entire point of insurance is that the healthy pay in and the sick take out.

If you have private insurance you're already essentially partaking in a small scale version of universal health care except it's more expensive. All because you're being obstinate.

>>158494

What? They had 4 years under Bush and it failed utterly with a collapsed economy, multiple scandals among GOP politicians and a dragging war effort. You'd think people would start putting two and two together, but they return the favor by putting an even worse government in before.

>>158466
No shit it's not an argument you fucking special individual, I never claimed it was.

Fucking end yourself.

>>158378
I hope that agressive autisim you got there mate doesnt run up your medical bills too much. Seriously wtf is wrong eith you.

>>158679
They're not just covering for an inability to argue on an ideological level.

The entire core of Trump and his supporters' platform is sticking it to all those people/groups for every perceived slight against them over the last 8 years.

Their political ideology is that they are perpetually tired of being ignored and not going to take it anymore. They're angry before and after every election, including the ones they win, and it's always everyone else's fault.

And if it's glaringly obvious that one of them is at fault for their problems, like bush or cheney, then they were secretly never one of them to begin with and it's everyone else's fault for playing them for fools.

>>158564
As someone who knows contractors that 100 k a year is bullshit. After 5 years and they are established They might earn 250k a year in income that gets eaten up by supplies insurance for their practice Cost of transportation and paying down loans they took out for all that expensive ass equipment they had to buy. Oh not to mention the fact that if they get hurt and cant work no more money.

>obviously you are an edgy kid who hasnt worked a god damn day in your life if i saw you i would fucking beat the shit out of your spoiled ass face. Do you know half the shit us workers have to put up with to make it through the god damn fucking day.

>>159059
Continued
Oh yeah those freaking contracting trucks cost 30k minimum no bells and whistles they easily go up to 65 k when kitted out for work. Not to mention the fuck ton of tools you need drills / hammers saws / torches /welders / tile cutters / angle grinders the list goes on and on.

Any ways you know what happens when us laborers hit 35 or older we start breaking down. Our knees give out the discks in our spine are compressed or slip. We have chronic health issues from beating the fuck out of our bodies every god damn day. Not to mention chem exposure and the risk of cancer. So whats a man to do when he needs knee surgery and his health insurance leaves him with a 6k bill to pay despite the fact that he has been dumping money into his health insurance for a long ass time?

> i cant wait for single payer system soon enough.

>>159065
and when you have single payer it will be just as shitty as it is now, now this is just a thought but what would a bank account look like with all that money you paid into your insurance, by intrusting something as important as healthcare to the government you have ensured that it will cost way more than it is supposed to and/or the quality of care will suffer, the social security fund is bankrupt, there is no money it was wasted, and the government will do the same with a healthcare fund or any fund given to them, its like giving a heroin addict heroin they're going to shoot up

>>159085
Literally not a single period in that rambling mess.

So long as you're okay with looking inbred, keep on with the James Joyce sentences.

>>158774
"As they do now" is doing all the work. House was republican lead by a smaller margin.

>>158335

>Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Jerry Moran of Kansas declared on Monday night that they would oppose the Senate Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act

Will the people of Utah and Kansas remove these RINO nigger loving kikes or will I have to take matters into my own hands?

At this point I'm convinced that this is a concerted effort to do this shit on purpose because in reality they don't have a plan. So they make some of them fall guys, cast a failed vote because of "defectors", then just throw up their hands and go oh well, guess we'll have to try again.

>>158378
when you become despondent because your poor social skills cost you every vocational opportunity that you will ever have, I'll remember to laugh as you die in the gutter with you pride and your holier than thou attitude dickwad.

>>158378
>>158393
>>158466
Fuck yourself, you edgy cunt. Who's going to build and buy everything, care for everyone, if the poor are allowed to just die because they can't afford healthcare. I know a psychopath such as yourself would disagree, but I believe every single person is born with the right to life. Believing that, I also believe that healthcare is a right of the people.

I hope you're trolling, or just too young to understand what you're saying. Maybe you're just ill, or disabled. If that's the case, I hope that you get the help you need. Until such time, however; stay off the fucking internet you little fuck.

>>159183
>or will I have to take matters into my own hands?
Yeah sure tough guy...

>>159799
>caring about other people
What a nerd!

>>158378
Real talk, what is the cause of emotionally-stunted manchildren, like this anon, to exist?

reminder that Malthus was right and he just forgot to factor the fossil fuel boom into his equation

>>158523
We could trim the fat from our defense budget and pass some tax reform. Then, it'd be affordable. Probably

>>158536
You posted a study from a .edu address so be prepared for some fag to call you out for posting fake studies from the university mob.