Former Soviet Counter Intelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald

There's no such thing as a former FSB agent. "Retired" agents are still active at some level.

I love how someone just being from Russia makes them some sort of foreign agent now
It's like the cold war all over again

>>157388
Oh, it gets better:

>http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/341997-ex-soviet-officer-was-also-in-trump-jr-meeting-report

>Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.'s lawyer, told The Hill that the lobbyist mentioned in the NBC report was introduced as a friend of Veselnitskaya and Emin Agalarov, the Russian pop star whose agent, Goldstone, arranged the meeting.

>Futerfas would not give the name of the lobbyist, but said he was one of three people in addition to Veselnitskaya who came to the meeting as part of her group. He did not identify the other two people.

I'm going to go pop some popcorn while I wait to find out who the other two people accompanying Veselnitskaya were.

>>157399
>$0.01 has been deposited in your account

>Bullshit, the person Trump Jr. met with was just a lawyer and nothing more!
>oh, there was a "former" russian agent there too.
>o-oh, there were two other unidentified people who accompanied the lawyer as well
>I bet they were working with the democrats as well
this is how (((((they))))) will attempt to deflect blame, calling it now

>>157451
As in what they've been saying since the story came out? Wow! Good one Nostradamus.

Information still isn't illegal though. People reached out to Kenyan officials to release information they may have had on Obama's birth. They weren't colluding with a foreign nation to overthrow the government when they did so. They were attempting to get information relevant to the election out to the American people that needed it to make an informed decision.

You can't argue this is illegal unless you are actually arguing that the American people don't have a right to know about the candidates they're voting for. He could have a Russian agent offering DNC emails and it wouldn't be illegal unless Trump actually asked them to do any hacking.

>>157465
>Information still isn't illegal though.
wow, those goalposts have shifted so far, i cant even see them anymore!

Yknow what is illegal? Lying to the FBI

And we all know Hillary never lied to the FBI or the American People or to the families of dead soldiers...

>>157465
I'm not sure of the legal aspect because I'm not a lawyer and you don't sound like one either. But I will say the most respected lawyers have said that in the absence of any other evidence this by itself does not reach the high legal standard of campaign finance fraud or espionage. So far though, the fact pattern is trending towards there being something bigger.

However, this just whole story serves as a very clear example of the erosion of what Americans see as acceptable and ethical. It feeds into this idea that if you don't get caught doing something wrong or if you get caught right before the legal limit of it being wrong, it's perfectly acceptable. Don Jr. may be a "good [39 year old] kid" but that doesn't make what he did acceptable.

We just went through an election where the shifting stories of one of the candidates over something far less troublesome rightfully destroyed her credibility with the public. What Clinton did, with changing the stories about the server was not acceptable, so why is this?

The Trump administration repeatedly keeps changing the story on this and when you move the goal post of what is acceptable for them you only further erode the integrity of our republic. The simple fact is that if you believe in Trump's agenda and want him to succeed you have to hold him accountable for his lies. He will only stop lying (and assuming he is innocent) if he feels the pressure from his supporters to behave better. He literally has nothing to lose (if he is innocent) by punishing Putin and being completely transparent with the press plus the public. This craziness will only stop if you refuse to make excuses for him and start to hold him accountable.

>>157481
Good thing she isn't president. However, the actual POTUS currently is. Constantly.

>>157470
Information isn't illegal. You've been told this from the beginning.

>Info isn't illegal
>No evidence anything was solicited by the campaign
>No evidence anything was accepted by the campaign

>>157470
>>157481

>backed into a corner
>b-b-b-but her emails!

how exactly is hillary clinton's failure to become president relevant to trump et al's now-confirmed collusion with the russians? why do trumplets keep bringing up clinton as if she matters?

>>157470
>Yknow what is illegal? Lying to the FBI

Wow! Look at them goalposts move!

SF86 violations are incredibly minor. Maybe they'll lose security clearance for a month or two. What happened to the TREASON you were screeching about?

>>157487
>You've been told this from the beginning.
Wow, i didn't know you could be retarded and smug at the same time

>>157485
It wasn't Clinton changing her stories on her server that people found unacceptable. It was that she broke the law and the government seemed to be covering for her. Obama announced publicly it was nothing. The FBI offered everyone immunity, but charged no one for the crimes committed. She went far enough to DESTROY evidence under an FBI preservation order. The only reason the private server came up in the first place was because Congress needed access to her emails for another investigation, and they weren't available to them. To go through and start destroying things after all that was what worried people. The fact that the FBI granted everyone involved in knowingly destroying evidence immunity, despite them not offering any information leading to a conviction is what worried people. The fact that Comey came out and basically said she committed several felonies but he felt no reason to charge her because he couldn't find intent, despite intent not even being an issue that even comes up in such trials was the fucking problem.

I really don't see why meeting a Russian person is such a serious problem that it degrades what Americans see as acceptable and ethical.

>>157490
Pretty easy to be smug when you're right. Information isn't illegal. You haven't been able to prove once that it is. You've had more than enough time and it would be pretty easy to find in the few exceptions there are to the 1st amendment, so I can only assume no laws against free unused information actually exist.

because it is relevant that the SAME PEOPLE who refused to prosecute her for verifiable crimes are the SAME PEOPLE going after Trump over mere speculation. If they went after her, and Trump it's be different. It is called "Light and Heavy Reasoning" and it's been around for about 3500 years you fucking twat.

>>157495
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
>Item D of the second section(things that are explicitly not under anything of value), informational or promotional items.

>>157499
>the SAME PEOPLE who refused to prosecute her for verifiable crimes are the SAME PEOPLE going after Trump over mere speculation.
Except the person who didn't prosecute Hillary got fired by Trump you fucking dipshit

So... Podesta making 35 million off Russian companies... and Hillary getting even more donated to the Clinton Crime Foundation means nothing to you? You asshat! It's like a rapist is fucking your wife in front of you but you are screaming that he didn't wipe his feet on the front doormat. The Clinton body count means nothing. The hubby actually raping women is less important than a man's poor choice of words? You people are all insane. You want that cunt in there.

>>157505
Comey wasn't a prosecutor. Only the DoJ can make that decision.

Oh so this is where the reasonable discussion is. I forgot we had a news board.

>>157521
Always remember
>>>/pol/ is for shitposting, tripfags and banter
>>>/news/ and >>>/his/ is for discussion.

>http://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-american-lobbyist-lawyer-brought-dnc-related-documents-to-trump-jr-meeting

>Rinat Akhmetshin, the Russian-American lobbyist who confirmed Friday that he attended last year’s meeting between Trump associates and a Kremlin-connected lawyer, said that the attorney brought with her a folder of information related to the DNC. According to the Associated Press, “Akhmetshin said Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democratic National Committee. Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the Trump campaign, he said.” Akhmetshin recalled to the AP the lawyer saying: “This could be a good issue to expose how the DNC is accepting bad money.”

>>157532
So the Trump campaign chose not to use it?

>>157533
>>157532
or maybe a former Soviet intelligence officer is lying about what was discussed? Just like Trump Jr. lied about the meeting being about the Magnitsky Act?

>http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/14/russian-lawyer-reportedly-offered-dirt-on-dnc-just-days-before-document-dump/

>A former Soviet military intelligence officer told the Associated Press on Friday that a Russian lawyer he accompanied to a June 9, 2016, meeting at Trump Tower offered to provide information about illicit financial activity carried out by the Democratic National Committee.

>Nine days later, on June 18, Guccifer 2.0, the hacker believed to be a front for Russian spy agencies, dropped a bombshell.

>“NEW DOCS FROM DNC NETWORK: LOTS OF FINANCIAL REPORTS AND DONORS’ PERSONAL DATA,” was the headline plastered across the Guccifer 2.0 website.

>Screen grab of Guccifer 2.0’s June 18, 2016 post

>The article included a trove of information about DNC donors and memos related to the Clinton campaign.

>On June 20 Guccifer 2.0 announced that that they were planning to release a dossier of information on Clinton. The next day, the website published a slew of files about Clinton that appear to have been hacked from the DNC. (RELATED: Here’s What We Know About Rinat Akhmetshin)

>Three days before, Guccifer 2.0 made the first post on the WordPress website. In the post, the hacker(s) claimed that the DNC breach was a one-man operation not connected to the Russian government.

>The Trump White House has strongly denied that the campaign participants in the June 9 meeting — Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort — colluded with Russian agents. But details of the meeting provided by the former Soviet counterintelligence officer raise new questions about those denials.

>Rinat Akhmethsin, the former Soviet agent and a lobbyist operating in Washington, D.C., told the Associated Press that he attended the meeting along with Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Russian lawyer.

>The pair were associated with the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation, a small non-profit that aims to roll back a law that imposes sanctions on Russian criminals.

>>157536
>Veselnitskaya and Trump Jr. have said that the Trump Tower meeting centered on the Magnitsky Act.

>But Akhmetshin said that Veselnitskaya brought a plastic folder full of printed-out documents to the meeting. Veselnitskaya’s documents “detailed her claims about the contributions to the Democratic National Committee,” AP reported.

>Akhmetshin said he did not know if the documents came from the Russian government but that he believes that Veselnitskaya left the information with the Trump team members.

>The operative, who operates in the shadows of Washington, D.C. but has close contacts to Beltway reporters, claimed that the meeting was “not substantive.”

>“I never thought this would be such a big deal to be honest,” he told the wire service.

>The presentation of DNC information is somewhat different than what Trump Jr. was promised when he was approached about the meeting on June 3.

>Rob Goldstone, a music publicist who works for Trump family associate Emin Agalarov, reached out to Trump Jr. through email that day offering opposition research on Hillary Clinton.

>Goldstone said that he wanted Trump Jr. to meet with a “Russian government attorney” who claimed to have “some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.”

>Goldstone was informed of the offer by Agalarov, whose father, Aras Agalarov, is a Russian oligarch close to Russia’s president Vladimir Putin.

>“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” Goldstone wrote.

>Trump Jr. responded to the offer saying, “I love it.”

>The revelations about the Trump Tower meeting have drawn new attention to other goings on at that point of the campaign cycle.

>>157537
>On June 7, several hours after Trump Jr. and Goldstone set a time for the meeting, then-candidate Trump said that he would be making a major revelation about Clinton.

>“I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week, and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons,” Trump said that night. “I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting. I wonder if the press will want to attend.”

>The White House has said that Trump only recently learned of the Trump Tower meeting. Trump never made the explosive speech, which would have occurred on June 13. The White House has said that the speech was delayed because of the Orlando nightclub shooting the day before.

The fakest news in the entire world history. Left is hanging on to dead straws just to bring Trump down.

What bad thing did he do? He give up his billion dollar empire to make America great again for the little and unforgotten people!

>>157541
While I know you're joking, a big issue in all this is all the lying. Even if nothing they did was wrong, the lying is a problem in and of itself and requires more investigation because we clearly can't trust Fredo Trump here.

>>157465
You know what you are lying hypocritical scum. If obumer did this with the chinese you would want him lynched from a tree. Where does it end with you faggots. Just because trump is your guy its okay for him to do what ever he wants.

First it was
>no one in trump admin talked to russians
Then
>okay flyn talked to russians but no one else did and we didnt receive any help during the election or collude.
Then
> okay more people met with russians and failed to discolse it on fourms.
Then
> okay trump jr and kushner met with russians in an attempt to recive info from the russian government.

Fuck offfags you have no claim to patriotisim russiais a regiem that has killed allied intelligence specialist and investigators as well as the primeminister of poland.
You need to get fucked i cant wait till the fbi and cia nails these fucking dirt bags.

>>157495
Oh information can be illegal . If i leaked secret documents thats illegal . If i was a democrat and accepted information from chinese agents during an election to beat my republican rivial that would be illegal. Get over it your god emperor is a fucking phoney .

As someone who honestly believe that Hillary Clinton had no business being in the White House, I must still say that every time I bother to pay attention to it Trump seems to have shot himself in the foot worse then the week before. The credibility of the president is an incredibly valuable commodity both in political maneuvering at home, and in the offering of foreign policy and negotiations. If the administration is perceived to be untruthful and dishonest, then it will be much less effective at its job.

>>157551
I find is especially hilarious how Kushner just left his foreign contacts section completely blank and then submitted an updated list every time the media outed him for one of his russian contacts. He's updated it three times now, lol. He claimed initially that he only left it blank because he accidentally hit the send button before he was finished filling it out, but there's a fucking 28 step verification process before you can send it in, which includes signing your name a bunch of times. Their lies are hilariously transparent. Or at least they would be hilarious if these fucks weren't literally running the country.

>>157551
And to people outside the administration it's been

>Talking to Russians isn't illegal
Then
>Talking to Russians isn't illegal
Then
>Talking to Russians isn't illegal
Then
>Talking to Russians isn't illegal

I have yet to see anything that suggests that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to "hack" the "election"(DNC), like you libtards have been crying since day one. This meeting certainly does nothing to prove it. Maybe if you didn't cry wolf so much this wouldn't happen, and this legal communication would have more impact. I've actually been pointing out at every step of the Russia hysteria that you people are giving Trump the Clinton treatment.

What does patriotism or Putin's character have to do with anything?

Also, if we are just going to sperg out with unfounded claims, the DNC wasn't hacked by Russia anyway, the files were copied locally by Seth Rich. :^)

And Putin's bodycount has nothing on the Democrats. :^)

Or, y'know, we can stick to reality and what we can prove here.

>>157552
No one is accusing the Trump campaign of leaking secret documents, and without a contract prohibiting you from doing so, it's a very legally tricky area in the US. For instance, as long as they were not obtained by illegal means, journalists can and have leaked secret documents while being protected under the first amendment. Rachel Maddow did so recently for instance.

Accepting information or documents is not illegal. Blumenthal for instance sought out information from Kenyan officials in relation to Obama's birth.

I'm not even a Trump supporter. You are just wrong. You don't know the law and watching you desperately try and twist it to support your political leanings is both hilarious and embarrassing to watch.

Funny. Weeks ago none of these clowns had ever even seen a russian in person.

>>157571
>I'm not a trump supporter but I sure as shit picked up all their talking points to run with

Right down to the secret muslim kenya argument. fucking yawn.

>>157589
>Get proven wrong
>"Shit, better deflect again!"

>>157594
The fact that Blumenthal sough out documents from Kenyan officials does not matter in this situation though. You just kinda brought it up for no reason. Doesn't help that Obama's actual records are very clearly from the states, and the Kenyan officials are, well, Kenyan. This is a country that has difficulty keeping tax records for a full year.

Makes it look like you are the one deflecting.

>>157571
>Accepting information or documents is not illegal

Unfortunately for you, the Federal Elections Commission already specifically concluded that information alone, where it is of the nature of requiring research to generate (like political opposition research) qualifies as an in-kind contribution to a campaign, and thus would qualify as a "thing of value" for the purposes of the campaign finance laws prohibiting contributions to a campaign by foreign nationals:

relevant advisory opinion where the FEC concludes that information alone may be considered a thing of value for the purposes of the act:

>https://cg-519a459a-0ea3-42c2-b7bc-fa1143481f74.s3-us-gov-west-1.amazonaws.com/legal/aos/72021.pdf

>If, however, Mr. Hochberg imparts poll result information to you or anyone else working for your campaign, including any data or any analysis of the results, or if he uses the poll information to advise your campaign on matters such as campaign strategy or creating media messages, such poll information will constitute an in-kind contribution from Mr. Hochberg to your campaign, and an expenditure in an equal amount by your committee.

Here it was ruled that even using "poll information" to merely advise a campaign would be considered an in-kind contribution. Between this and the FEC's opinion that even materials of nominal value from a foreign national would violate the act I believe the FEC's position is crystal clear that soliciting Political Opposition Research from a foreign national would be illegal.

>>157516
There's as much evidence of Clinton being a rapist as there is of Trump being a pedophile.

>>157571
>>157598

The other directly relevant FEC advisory opinon:

>http://saos.fec.gov/aodocs/2007-22.pdf

>“Anything of value” includes all in-kind contributions, including the provision of goods or services without charge or at a charge that is less than the usual and normal charge.

>Here, you propose accepting without charge, from Canadian third party and independent candidates, certain printed materials used in previous Canadian campaigns.

>Although the value of these materials may be nominal or difficult to ascertain, they have some value. The provision of these items without charge would relieve your campaign of the expense that it would otherwise incur to obtain such materials. Thus, the provision of such items without charge would constitute a contribution and, as such, would be prohibited, particularly in light of the broad scope of the prohibition on contributions from foreign nationals.

Printed materials and polling information alone were both considered to be "in-kind" contributions and therefore to meet the standard of "anything of value" as defined by campaign finance law, therefore the provision of political opposition research and documents to Trump Jr by foreign nationals clearly also constitutes an in-kind contribution from foreign nationals prohibited under the act.

>>157597
They sought out information from foreign officials. You claim that is illegal. It isn't.

>>157599
Trump paid off children he raped to avoid court cases and was impeached for being a pedophile?

It's time to move on liberals. Crooked Hillary lost

Your party is dying for a reason

Get over this fake news Russian meme

>>157599
incidentally, there's quite a lot of evidence for trump being pedo.

>>157611

>p-p-please move on just let it go p-please

No one is sweating here but you ;)

Donald trump jr is an idiot...at least by putting the info out there Russia can't blackmail the Trump administration with it. The trump team broke the law by seeking something of value from a foreign government. Doubtful he will prosecuted, if found guilty he would just be pardoned. No surprise to anyone with half a brain the Trump administration and many republicans lie. It is always about the money and a lot of it is being spent to troll people on 4chan.

>>157588
This is what I can't understand why it doesn't give some people pause.

>>157597
Nice deflection retard. Obama being born in the US doesn't mean they werent seeking out official information. Why was it legal in '08?

Oh look! Being objective and skeptical is ruining my desperate grasp on an unhealthy fantasy that's enabled by the media so they can get better ratings, and by the Clintons so they can save face and maintain power. I'm not a useful idiot! It's /pol/ that are delusional! I don't care that every Russian scandal in the last 6 months revealed nothing. I'm not a delusional Trumptard. I have to be right!

>>157518
And he fired everyone at the DOJ too you imbecile.

>>157659
/news/ (ie: leftypol) in a nutshell: "OMG HE IS STATING FACTS INSTEAD OF BUYING EMPTY PROPAGANDA, gb2 >>>/pol/"

>>157738
>leftypol
go back to 8gag

>>157738

>Trump supporter edgelord goes on about not buying propaganda

>>157737
Obama did? Or Comey? What are you talking about?

>>157745
maybe try reading the posts

>Except the person who didn't prosecute Hillary got fired by Trump you fucking dipshit

Trump fired everyone at the DOJ too so the first guy's claim
>the SAME PEOPLE who refused to prosecute her for verifiable crimes are the SAME PEOPLE going after Trump over mere speculation.
is clearly false because Comey was the one who made a recommendation not to prosecute and Lynch was the one to make the decision not to prosecute and now both of them have been fired by Trump.

>>157562
Why yes lets just let all our politicians consort with foreign agents and not disclose it. When the dems get aid from chi coms next election dont come crying to me .

>>157755
I assumed by "the person who didn't prosecute Hillary got fired by Trump" you meant Comey. I was just pointing out how retarded that was since it wouldn't have been Comey's decision. It was on the DOJ to bring charges against her.

Who did you mean by "the person who didn't prosecute Hillary got fired by Trump" then?

>>157766
Lol like they always do?

>Who is Charlie Trie?
>Who is Johnny Chung?
>Who is John Huang?
>Who is Wang Wenliang?
>Who is Ng Lap Seng?

And they ACTUALLY got aid from these people. Not just the make believe aid Trump got from Russia.

And they should disclose anything of relevancy on SF96 forms or face temporary suspensions until they can correct. If they do it repeatedly, or intentionally, they should be fined or imprisoned.

>>157769
Chinagate was a 1996 scandal that was investigated by the DOJ/FBI. A majority of the public felt that an independent counsel should have been appointed but wasn't, and that the investigation was hindered. It remains a tarnishing point on Bill's and the Democrat's legacy of the 90s.

The most important difference is that it is unanimously agreed that regardless of the extent/who in either the US or Chinese government knew what, the influence peddled was in foreign campaign contributions. Also, save for one or two investigators, it is unanimously agreed that the races for which donations were sent were congressional, while the '96 presidential campaigns were not given funds. Finally, at the time the motive of China (if the government was involved as alleged) was to get influence on business/trade opportunities, depending on the case. It wasn't an open attempt to directly swing votes (as Russians running their own trolling and fake news sites is) or undermine democratic institutions.

I'm not saying that Chinagate was not an important scandal. It was, it deserved more investigation, and it was impeded from the top. But it is still nowhere near the magnitude of what is going on now with the status of the obstruction and now collusion cases.

>>157787
I was mainly just pointing out that the Dem's have in fact accepted foreign aid to win.

As far as I know, the Russian fake news thing is only alleged. I've yet to see any evidence yet that it actually happened. I know for a fact a large portion of the stories they tried to sell as being "Russian kompromat" originated here. Is there any real proof of this one?

What they did does in fact undermine democratic institutions. How could illegally accepting foreign aid in order to essentially cheat your way into getting a majority government not undermine democracy?

From what I understand, there was only an investigation into obstruction when it comes to Flynn. We know fully what Flynn was investigated for, and it had nothing to do with this Russian collusion narrative. He violated the Logan act by about a day and was fired and nearly charged for it. Everyone lacking bias can see that this is just a partisan goose chase.

This particular case of "collusion", or of soliciting an illegal "contribution" from Russia, or whatever it is, seems pretty minor. No one can reliably point to any laws that would apply. From what we can tell, nothing illegal was done.

And if you're thinking "Well, maybe we have nothing solid yet, but it's at least something." The investigation has been going on for almost a year. Intel communities are now completely unlocked and open to each other. They have numerous means of accessing communications and emails to and from foreign nationals, and supposedly have been keeping tabs on POI in Russia for at least 5 years now. Trump's campaign staff itself has had been surveilled. In all of that, they have nothing. What is it that you think they'll find?

Keep in mind, we still have no indication that Trump is even under investigation at this point for colluding to hack the DNC.

>>157769
Guess what fag i was pissed about that too. I hate shit like that. Thats why i hate the donald he is the biggest ball of nepotisim and foreign influence i have ever fucking seen. Its like im watching the politicsl version of goatse and just when it cant get any shittier billy mayes ghost pops in saying "but wait theres more."
I gave trump a trail period of 60 days no judgment as president before i would judge him. During that time he appointed his kids to high ranking positions and fired comey and made disparging attacks on federal agencies and made lide hell for people i know on educational visas .

>>157901
So he broke the law because you have a personal problem with him. Alright.

>>157907
No because we are a nation of laws he is in clear violation of nepotisim laws as well as in violation of laws reguarding profiting from the presidency. Remember carters penaut farm he gave that up trump hasnt given his multi billion dollar empire up and is already making money off of the presidency ala chinese investing in kushner project as one selling point was that he is the presidents son in law.
Donald jr solicitated information from the russians on clinton during the campaign such an action violates election laws regulating reciving foreign help monetary or information wise.

>>157907
It also undermines our rule of law imagine the democrats next election cycle get some help from communist china who hacks the ballots but according to you thats no biggy . What happens when our elections are no longer our own what will you do faggot praise the donald more . Hope you like dictatorships.

>>157912
Then maybe you should make a thread complaining about those. Complaining about laws he didn't break isn't going to get you anywhere. Information is not illegal. Never has been, never will be.

Ballots were not hacked. That'd probably require the vote be done again.

>>157913
A dictatorship like the Democrats tried to secure in the 90's with zero legal repercussions?

>>157917
>Ballots were not hacked

You don't know this. The NSA report concluded the hackers had access to the voter registration computers. Ballot computers are assumed to be safe because they do not have internet connection but if they are on the same network as an infected voter registration computer then they are extremely vulnerable.

Now whether you want to believe the NSA report is up to you. But to say it is false before we know more and without any backing is ridiculous. If the ballots themselves were indeed hacked it is not something they would tell the public until necessary and until a full case could be laid out for who was responsible. This country is based on a peaceful transfer of power and throwing the legitimacy of that into doubt would be extremely dangerous. Especially when its not even clear legally whether we can just re-do an election.

>>157917
>Information is not illegal

More complete bullshit. The FEC already concluded that poll result information or even analysis simply BASED on poll result information not paid for by a campaign would constitute an in-kind contribution to that campaign and would therefore be illegal to accept from a foreign national.

>>157936
That's if someone pays for that poll information. How much did someone spend on the information Trump Jr supposedly got?

>>157943
>The political opposition research and documents collected themselves, without the use of the labour of foreign nationals, then flew itself to New York and presented itself to Trump Jr, Manafort and Kushner

Oh and by the way, the FEC has also already concluded that it doesn't matter whatsoever for the purposes of campaign finance law whether you can put an exact dollar value on a contribution for it to be considered a "thing of value", so long as it would have ANY cost to replicate it qualifies. Since political opposition research is regularly paid for by campaigns, it qualifies.

>>157951
You tried that one two days ago. You were incorrect then and you're still incorrect now.

You can't just play word games and repeat yourself over and over when you've been proven wrong many times already. It only shows how disingenuous you actually are. You don't care about the law, or the well-being of America, or even about anything Trump has done. You just hate that ebil nazi fascist Dururumpghft and want him out at any cost.

Stop playing partisan politics and grow up. You sound like all those pussies that cried about Obama being the anti-christ for four fucking years, and refused to acknowledge anything good he did.

>>157958
Your post does not contain an argument.

>>157963
Yeah but dozens of replies to you trying the exact same thing do. Anyone reading the threads will see them. You already know why you're wrong. People have been telling you why for days, and you just come back with a new law to try for a while until you think they forgot about you getting BTFO previously.

That's why /pol/ keeps coming in and posting that Hitler quote about you, You lose the argument and come back the next day like you didn't.

>>157966
This post also does not contain an argument.

>>157968
Neither do any of yours at this point.

Why is there a vocal minority users on here who are desperate to excuse Hillary Clinton's incompetence by blaming the Russians for their nonexistent hacking of the voting machines at the election? Why are there so many shareblue fags on an //altright// imageboard?

>>158084
Because ShareBlue and Intel agencies are busy little bees

>>158084
>>158088

No reasonable person is saying that faggot. If you lie and do unethical shit we're not going to bury our heads in the sand. At least people that voted for Hillary were aware of the repercussions of doing so, more so an effort to prevent a person who can't keep his mouth shut about top secret intel from getting to the white house.

We're not twisting ourselves into an intellectual pretzel as apologists, and don't hail our preferred candidates as some God like autistic 15 year old children on Vietnamese flare gun forums. The psychological phenomenon and the resulting mental gymnastics behind Trump apologists is absolutely fascinating and I'd like to see a study done behind the motivating factors for it.

I find it consequently ironic that you people scream SHILL!!!11!1!1!! (interestingly when getting BTFO'd in a conversation) when there is legitimate concern for ACTUAL shills operated by a FOREIGN STATE in favor for Trump. The irony is simply delicious.

BREAKING NEWS: Baron Trump seen conspiring with russian playmate

Sources say that baron trump has been seen lately playing with a dark skinned kid wearing a baseball cap with the russian flag. They have been spotted on multiple occasions playing with a putin and trump action figure together, laughing hysterically while enjoying a bucket of fried chicken and watermelon.............

>>158084
Advocating in favour of the rule of law against blatantly illegal behaviour is not advocating in favour of Hillary or any party or candidate.

The only people who see the rule of law as a partisan issue are people who see the rule of law itself as an obstacle to their political agenda.

>>158115
All that we have in regards to the documents that were revealed was attempted collusion. That in itself is not illegal.

You could argue that they were playing dirty, yet what political party doesn't get in the mud from time to time?

>>158118
>That in itself is not illegal.
You mean besides Trump Jr, Manafort and Kushner blatantly violating campaign finance laws?

And Flynn admitting to lying on SF-86 and admitting to failing to register as a foreign agent and potentially being guilty of espionage for trying to set up a secret communications facility with the Russian military using Russian controlled facilities and equipment?

And Manafort admitting to lying on SF-86 and admitting to failing to register as a foreign agent?

And Sessions lying on his SF-86 and lying under oath about his contacts with Russians during his confirmation hearing?

And Kushner admitting to omitting material informaiton on his SF-86 multiple times and potentially being guilty of espionage for trying to set up a secret communications facility with the Russian military using Russian controlled facilities?

And these are only the things that have been directly confirmed by the Trump administration officials directly involved! I'm not even including Kushner's meeting with Vnesheconombank, the accusations of Russian money being laundered into Republican elections campaigns through digital marketing firms, the accusations of direct coordination with the Russian state sponsored hacking efforts, etc.

>>158122
Hillary and Obongo have ordered the assassinations of over 30 people, have ran a child pedocanibal witchcraft ring, and want to initiate an operation to destroy the US they have deemed the MIllenium Shrimp Initiative.If Russia wants to help Trump put them in jail then that's a good thing.

>>158170
I was talking about things the participants have admitted themselves on the public record, not things that have only occurred in your fever soaked imagination.

>>158115
>>158095
When fascism finally overthrows capitalism (which it will) we will prepare specially made gulags for commie traitors like you. Nice bit of ironic punishment for your hardly fought campaign to destroy western culture from within. ;-)

>>158122
>You mean besides Trump Jr, Manafort and Kushner blatantly violating campaign finance laws?

They didn't. You can scroll up in this very thread and read why that's incorrect, or go to any one of the other threads about it.

>potentially being guilty of espionage for trying to set up a secret communications facility with the Russian military using Russian controlled facilities?

That was for the purposes of Trump to communicate with Russia after he was already President. You can't be guilty of espionage by setting up channels the President wants.

>>158193
>They didn't.

They did. Blatantly so. The arguments made against this self evident conclusion have been totally unconvincing

>You can't be guilty of espionage by setting up channels the President wants.

Complete nonsense. Nowhere in the Espionage Act is any such exemption even contemplated, not that what the law actually says matters in the least to you.

>>158197
>They did. Blatantly so. The arguments made against this self evident conclusion have been totally unconvincing

They really haven't. The guy arguing they broke the law could do nothing but copy and paste the exact same law people just explained they didn't break, or wait a day and try again hoping the same people wouldn't be there the next. They were arguing in an incredibly disingenuous way, and everyone could see it was more of an experiment in arguing they were right, than actually making any legitimate arguments themselves.

>Complete nonsense. Nowhere in the Espionage Act is any such exemption even contemplated, not that what the law actually says matters in the least to you.

Oh God... Are you that same guy that's been posting laws you don't understand? No, you are not guilty of espionage for meetings set up by the Commander-in-Chief of the military...

>>158201
More transparent lies.

Trump Jr set a time and place to receive political opposition research from a foreign national that was produced by other foreign nationals on behalf of the Trump campaign.

>H-he was a private citizen!!!
The Trump campaign is paying Trump Jr's legal bill regarding the meeting, so either we was representing the campaign or its a misappropriation of campaign assets to pay his bill

>M-muh free speach!!!one!
Argument doesn't apply. The FEC already ruled poll result information, which is just as much information as political opposition research, would be an in-kind contribution to a campaign.

>Muh volunteering!
The Russian lawyer was not the source of the political opposition research and thus could not donate it to the Trump campaign by donating her uncompensated volunteer services (i.e. labour) to the campaign.

>Muh thing of value!
The FEC has been clear in multiple rulings that the provision of any service to a campaign that they would normally have to pay for is an in-kind contribution regardless of whether it's dollar value is nominal or difficult to establish precisely, and regardless of whether the contributions are physical goods, money, or information generating services like polling (or political opposition research for that matter).

>Goldman set up the meeting tho!!!!
That does not matter since campaign finance laws very specifically list providing a specific method to make a contribution as a solicitation of that contribution, so setting a specific time and place for an in person meeting to receive a contribution qualifies as solicitation as defined by the act.

>>158205
Political Opposition Research could be literally ANY form of information, which violates the first amendment. You were already told about the time Hillary Clinton's campaign sent people to a foreign nation to find information on Obama's birth. It is not illegal to seek out information related to a campaign, even from foreigners.

>>158192

Key signs of an autistic 15 year old edgelord:

>saying "gulag"
>instantly assuming all opposition are communists
>mentions about western culture
>advocacy for fascism

No normal person talks like this. Seek help.

Can the children please leave?

>>158193
>That was for the purposes of Trump to communicate with Russia after he was already President. You can't be guilty of espionage by setting up channels the President wants.

So, to clarify, are you saying that if there had been an attempt to set up such a channel before Trump was president, then it would have been espionage?

>>158221

It could very well have been depending on the details. Got any information or articles on it? I'm only read up on the Kushner one.

>>158224
>It could very well have been depending on the details.

Let's say, hypothetically, that two members of Trump's campaign tried to set up a secret communications back channel with Russia using Russian controlled facilities and equipment specifically in an attempt to avoid allowing the sitting President to know about it, and to prevent the CIA, NSA and FBI from being able to monitor it.

Would that be espionage?

What is this conspiracy hypothesis now?

The Trump family is working for Russia? Sounds legit. They are Russia right?

>>158218
>Can the children please leave?
No. the Commies will never leave as the are unemployed and desperate.

>>158218
>It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.
- Steve Bannon

You may scoff at us, you may try to stop us, but we are in control. /pol/ is in control, and we will MAGA.

>>158095
When your boyfriend comes over, do you braid his nutsack hair like girls do at sleepovers?

>>158207
>Muh first amendment

Since multiple U.S. Supreme Court decisions have already ruled that monetary campaign contributions are a form of speech covered by the first amendment, your argument that the first amendment would protect the contribution of political opposition research from a foreign national to a campaign is necessarily a claim that that the law against campaign contributions by foreign nationals would be found unconstitutional in its entirety by the supreme court, and that foreign nationals can therefore contribute as much money as they want to U.S. elections campaign.

Is that your position then? That foreign nationals can contribute as much money as they want to U.S. elections because the campaign finance laws against it are unconstitutional? If this is not your position then any distinction between money and information as the form of contribution is totally specious.

>>158229
It could very well be depending on the circumstances. You got a source or not?

>>158233

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/18/steve-bannon-vows-economic-nationalist-movement-white-house-exciting-1930s-greater-reagan-revolution/

Greatest quote ever. Now if only they'd legalize the torture of degenerates and their infants, then I'll be a happy man.

Remember:
Hate is the foundation of society.
Hate is a wall that keeps tolerance out.
Tolerance begets weakness.
Weakness begets degeneracy.
Only hate, pure and absolute, can burn degeneracy.

There is your /pol/ thought for the day.

>>158233
/pol/ doesn't have anything to do with this you idiotic traitor

AMERICA is in control. fucking idiot.

>>158239
They cannot contribute money or anything else of value. They CAN contribute endless free information, provided they did not coordinate with the campaign to get, seek out or compile that information in the first place.

Information is specifically defined as not being of value in the same laws you kept trying to post over and over and over again for the last several days. Just go ahead and read the definition of anything of value and you'll see.

In other words, my position is the law. I'd like to see everyone follow the law.

>>158242
>legalize the torture of degenerates and their infants
hello liberal/commie (it makes no difference)

I see you're still false flagging as le evil republican. Great job. Now the 35 people posting in this thread will be protected from racism.

That was a close one. Thank god you were here, tirelessly shitposting.

>>158232
>>158233

Yep, there they go again. They never left, waiting by their keyboard because they have no job.

Double your zoloft and call your shrink, it's starting to seep through to the public eye.

>>158245
We got an easily triggered internet troll surrounded by shills, jews, libertarians, and fascists. When they aren't trolling the left, they're leaking each other's private shit. They're dysfnctional, they can't agree, they can't even keep their stories straight, and they call each other cucks in private. There is no truth, just narratives. I'd say that the White House resembles /pol/ pretty well right now.

>>158246
>Information is specifically defined as not being of value

You already know that this is false. The FEC's advisory opinions specifically concluded that information could be a thing of value, and that even just analysis based information could be a thing of value:

>https://www.fec.gov/files/legal/aos/72021.pdf

>Mr. Hochberg commissioned this poll for his own potential candidacy and not on behalf of your campaign. Although Mr. Hochberg obviously will have knowledge of the polling information while he pursues his volunteer activities, Mr. Hochberg entered into the transaction with the pollster prior to working for your campaign and not in contemplation of working for your campaign. His receipt of the results was a completion of that transaction, rather than a receipt on behalf of your campaign. In such circumstances, Mr. Hochberg's knowledge of the poll results by itself is not treated as a contribution of the poll and will not preclude his unpaid volunteer services to the campaign.

>If, however, Mr. Hochberg imparts poll result information to you or anyone else working for your campaign, including any data or any analysis of the results, or if he uses the poll information to advise your campaign on matters such as campaign strategy or creating media messages, such poll information will constitute an in-kind contribution from Mr. Hochberg to your campaign, and an expenditure in an equal amount by your committee.

Natalia Veselnitskaya was in possession of political opposition research conducted by other foreign nationals, and though they may have conducted it independently and not in contemplation of using it to aid the Trump campaign, her offer of that political opposition research information to the Trump campaign is an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign. Period.

>>158247
You're just another fake conservative (((globalist shill)))

>>158256
His opinion goes against what is directly stated in the law, and is more concerned with the fact that the polling was done and paid for solely for a campaign for the same position that never actually took place. In other words, they were likely looking for a loophole to make a contribution that exceeds campaign finance laws. If it went to court, both sides would certainly have an argument.

This case is entirely different. The only charge anyone could make was that Trump Jr was "soliciting" information. Not information of a particular value, not the services to gather information, no services at all in fact. Simply free information.

Again, the example of Hillary Clinton's campaign sending people to Kenya to look into Obama's birth is the perfect example. It is not against the law to even directly solicit information from a foreign nation. Coordinating any sort of services, or accepting anything of value from them is different.

>>158258
>Simply free information.
Nonsense. The information was not public and therefore not free. It was political opposition research which the Trump campaign would be privy to and the public or other campaigns would not, and such private political opposition research information normally has to be paid for and it is therefore exact like the polling research information that was the subject of that FEC advisory opinion.

This is nothing like looking through public records, and the very essence of the distinction is that the information produced by private polling and by political opposition research is private and solely able to be used by the campaign that obtains it.

>>158263
>Nonsense. The information was not public and therefore not free. It was political opposition research which the Trump campaign would be privy to and the public or other campaigns would not, and such private political opposition research information normally has to be paid for and it is therefore exact like the polling research information that was the subject of that FEC advisory opinion.

It isn't and information is specifically defined as not a thing of value RIGHT IN THE LAW. Post some more opinions on unrelated topics if you want. Opinions don't change the law.

>This is nothing like looking through public records, and the very essence of the distinction is that the information produced by private polling and by political opposition research is private and solely able to be used by the campaign that obtains it.

A poll requires an appraisable level of research, and the opinion you posted even details how to appraise such information. What is the information Trump Jr got appraised at? How would you go about appraising it?

>>158251

are you threatening me?

>>158257
>no u

>>158272
>It isn't and information is specifically defined as not a thing of value RIGHT IN THE LAW.

You're going to have to provide a citation for that, and explain how it can be consistent with the FEC concluding that poll result information and even merely advice and analysis based on that poll result information can be a thing of value.

>A poll requires an appraisable level of research, and the opinion you posted even details how to appraise such information.

That FEC AO 1990-12 does not in any way shape or form make the ability to calculate the exact dollar value of the poll result information a predicate of it being considered an in-kind campaign contribution, it merely spells out how to calculate the dollar amount of the in-kind campaign contribution. Since ANY dollar amount of in-kind contribution to a political campaign by a foreign national is illegal, then it is not necessary to calculate the exact dollar amount of the in-kind contribution or for it to be easy to calculate at all.

The FEC themselves follows this exact line of reasoning in AO 2007-22:

"Although the value of these materials may be nominal or difficult to ascertain, they have some value. The provision of these items without charge would relieve your campaign of the expense that it would otherwise incur to obtain such materials. Thus, the provision of such items without charge would constitute a contribution and, as such, would be prohibited, particularly in light of the broad scope of the prohibition on contributions from foreign nationals."

The FEC specifically concludes that it does not matter what the specific dollar value is, or whether it can easily be ascertained since the contribution of ANY value whatsoever to a campaign by a foreign national is illegal. Private political opposition research has A value, and campaigns typically pay for it, and thus receiving it from a foreign national is an illegal in-kind contribution.

>>158240
>http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/source-kushner-sought-secret-back-channel-with-russia

WASHINGTON — Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump's son-in-law and a top White House adviser, proposed a secret back channel between the Kremlin and the Trump transition team during a December meeting with the Russian ambassador to the U.S.

Kushner spoke with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak about facilitating sensitive discussions to explore the incoming administration's options with Russia as it developed its Syria policy, a person familiar with the discussions told The Associated Press.

The intent was to connect Trump's chief national security adviser at the time, Michael Flynn, with Russian military leaders, said this person, who wasn't authorized to publicly discuss private policy deliberations and insisted on anonymity.

Russia, a pivotal player in Syria, has backed Syrian President Bashar Assad, often at the expense of civilians during a long civil war.

The White House did not acknowledge the meeting or Kushner's attendance until March. At the time, a White House official dismissed it as a brief courtesy meeting.

Back from a nine-day trip to the Middle East and Europe, Trump on Sunday immediately sought to dismiss recent news reports as "fake news."

"It is my opinion that many of the leaks coming out of the White House are fabricated lies," he tweeted. He added: "Whenever you see the words 'sources say' in the fake news media, and they don't mention names ... it is very possible that those sources don't exist."

Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, said Sunday the allegation that a key Trump campaign figure sought secret communications with a country that intervened in a U.S. election was serious. The California Democrat urged a review of Kushner's security clearance "to find out whether he was truthful."

"If not, then there's no way he can maintain that kind of a clearance," Schiff told ABC's "This Week."

>>158247
>I see you're still false flagging as le evil republican.

I think most of us can make the distinction between alt-rightist and Republicans.

>>158240
>>158284
James Clapper, the former national intelligence director, described the general nature of communications between Kushner and Russia as a red flag. "I will tell you that my dashboard warning light was clearly on, and I think that was the case with all of us in the intelligence community," Clapper said Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press."

Kushner's involvement in the proposed back channel was first reported by The Washington Post, which said he proposed using Russian diplomatic facilities for the discussions, apparently to make them more difficult to monitor. The newspaper cited anonymous U.S. officials who were briefed on intelligence reports on intercepted Russian communications.

The Post reported that Kislyak was taken aback by the suggestion of allowing an American to use Russian communications gear at its embassy or consulate — a proposal that would have carried security risks for Moscow as well for as the Trump team.

According to the person familiar with the Kushner meeting, the Trump team eventually felt there was no need for a back channel once Rex Tillerson was confirmed as secretary of state on Feb. 1.

Flynn served briefly as Trump's national security adviser before being fired in February. Officials said he misled Vice President Mike Pence about whether he and the ambassador had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia in a phone call.

Sally Yates, the former acting attorney general, told Congress this month that that deception left Flynn vulnerable to being blackmailed by the Russians. Flynn remains under federal investigation in Virginia over his foreign business ties. He was interviewed by the FBI in January about his contacts with Kislyak.

>>158240
>>158286
The disclosure of the back channel put White House advisers on the defensive, as Trump wrapped up his first foreign trip as president. Lawyers for Kushner said he was willing to talk with federal and congressional investigators about his foreign contacts and his work on the Trump campaign.

Meeting with reporters in Sicily, two Trump advisers refused to address the contents of Kushner's December meeting with the Russian diplomat.

Speaking generally, national security adviser H.R. McMaster said "we have back channel communications with a number of countries." He added: "It allows you to communicate in a discreet manner."

Kushner was a trusted Trump adviser last year, overseeing the campaign's digital strategy. He remains an influential confidant within the White House as does his wife, Ivanka Trump.

Reuters has reported that Kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with Kislyak last year, including two phone calls between April and November. Kushner's attorney, Jamie Gorelick, told Reuters that Kushner "has no recollection of the calls as described."

Investigators are also interested in a meeting Kushner had with the Russian banker, Sergey Gorkov, according to reports from the Post and NBC News.

Federal investigators and several congressional committees are looking into any connections between Russia and the Trump campaign, including allegations that there may have been collaboration to help Trump and harm his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

The Senate intelligence committee, which is investigating Russia's meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, has requested information and documents from Trump's campaign dating back to July 2015, the AP confirmed. The request from the committee arrived last week at campaign headquarters in New York, according to person familiar with the request who wasn't authorized to discuss the developments publicly and demanded anonymity.

>>158285
What a pointless statement. You coward.

>>157556

you mean like when Hillary said she thought the classified "c" on a document stood for cookie?

>>158681
>"You mean with a cloth or something?"

Liberals actually believe politicians didn't lie until Trump.

>>158638
He's a cuck, and he'll squeal with the rest of the traitors when his time comes. The only thing more disgusting than a liberal is a so called moderate.

I was just thinking about something important. Just a minute ago, I was reading about how intelligence appears to be decreasing in developed countries. It seems to be related to the Internet.

And then, a moment ago, I realized something powerful. People who have less intelligence could "make up for it" by slowing others down. If, collectively, they used the right technique, they could form simple thoughts that "bog down" more intelligent people.

The easiest way to slow the thoughts of other down is to fuck with the communication channels. Like the Internet. Memes are a great way to get things to go viral. This achieves the goal of having to do less, because you are basically more of moron. Winning is winning, however.

Is it possible that bad actor's behaviors on the Internet causes the "stupid" to spread? I mean, we're really wasting our breath here arguing with these idiots. What we need to be doing is figuring out how to inoculate the Internet against these meta-entity memes.