http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-religion-idUSKBN19I1RT
>The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday threw out a lower court ruling prohibiting the use of public funds to pay for children to attend private religious schools, a day after it issued a major ruling narrowing the separation of church and state.
>The justices ordered the lower court in Colorado to reconsider the legality of school "voucher" programs in light of Monday's ruling that churches and other religious entities cannot be categorically denied public money even in states whose constitutions explicitly ban such funding.
tl;dr - Education in the U.S. is getting fucked over by religious fundamentalist figures like Betsy DeVos, who want to push children into institutions that indoctrinate them with religious dogma while shunning accepted scientific theories.
>>152398
>muh right wing christian boogeyman
>muh hypocritical accusations of indoctrination
>muh bloated over-funded chronically under-performing public education system
>>152398
Holy shit. A Christian right winger came into my room to bring me a plate of creationism and I literally screamed at him and hit the plate of anti-science out of his hand. He started preaching and attempting to convert me and I slammed the door on him. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to Christianity but I'm literally in shock from the lack of evolution being taught the classroom tonight. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fucking fuck are they teaching kids about God? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe that private schools are a mess. I want secular public schools. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought everyone was supposed to think like I do???? This is so fucked.
>>152407
>I thought everyone was supposed to think like I do????
Separation of church and state.
Unless you want to be Iran, Saudi Arabia, or God forbid, Britain.
>>152412
Christianity is the cure to liberalism, so I'm fine with it.
>>152398
>public funds will actually be spent on schools that have a positive return and produce successful, educated students with a work ethic, instead of failing public schools that churn out brain-dead drones who can't do basic math or learn about "mean history" and feel they're entitled to success simply for showing up.
Horrible.
>>152413
>Islam is the cure to liberalism, so I'm fine with it.
ftfy
Tax dollars for contraception bad.
Tax dollars for creationism good.
#MAGA #LandOfTheFree #PrayForAmerica
>>152398
I went to a Catholic school for nearly all my grade school years and it was way above the few years I was in public. There weren't any bullshit creationist theories or dogmas pushed on you, the only difference beyond quality was that you had to take a religion class alongside everything else. Even the religion classes amounted more to a study of first Christianity, then all the other major world religions.
You're panicking over nothing.
>>152436
Tell me why a single cent of anyone's hard earned taxes should be spend on funding religious organisations they don't support.
I hope you are ready for the trouble that's brewing.
Shit will hit the fan when Muslims want to use these vouchers for sharia education.
>>152441
Same reason tax payer dollars go to planned Parenthood
Because some people like the results, and some don't, and the person in charge has a bias towards one line of thinking
All said and done, my Religious/private school was phenomenal and leaps and bounds over my public schools I attended. Like not even close.
>>152441
let's hope that this happens soon, because right now the Right is too busy gloating about their successes turning the US into a fucking theocracy.
But most of these people forget that this becomes available for all religions, not just Republican White Christianity.
>>152444
Planned Parenthood federal funding doesn't pay for abortions, and goes to fund many contraception and women's health programs.
>>152446
>and goes to fund many contraception
You forget that people have religious objections to that too, as it goes under the whole "sex should only be for the sake of procreation with your lawfully wedded spouse" thing. That's actually one of the things the ACA/Obamacare was under fire for, because one of the insurance guarantees was for contraceptives.
But otherwise you are correct, the federal funding for Planned Parenthood doesn't apply to abortions, and abortions are only like 10% of their services to being with or some stupid low number like that (they do a lot more general women's health stuff, including care for pregnant women). It's just that the 10% is a huge sticking point for a lot of people, so the other 90% of the program gets thrown under the bus.
>>152453
Other than Quiver-Full Christians (which go full Clown-Car on female vaginas), I don't understand why people would think contraception is a bad thing, those so-called Christians know that sex isn't only for procreation, and it's quite hypocritical to claim otherwise.
It's an expression of love and intimacy as well, restricting it to baby-making only is a waste of potential.
>>152446
Planned Parenthood shouldn't get Federal funding regardless
>>152454
>Sex isn't just for procreation
>Baby making sex is a waste of potential
That's just like, your opinion, man
>>152457
Why not Anon?
It does a world of good for Women's Health, especially among lower income citizens, and by doing its job it's saving the government (at both the State and Federal level) quite a bit of money.
I realize that many Republicans are against anything that promotes better health among the 99%, but it's just petty to oppose these programs.
>>152398
>Education in the U.S. is getting fucked over by religious fundamentalist figures like Betsy DeVos, who want to push children into institutions that indoctrinate them with religious dogma while shunning accepted scientific theories.
The American school system has been fucked since the 1970s, when the teachers union and federal education bureaucracy took complete control. Costs have sky rocketed (U.S. schools are the most expensive on the planet) while the kids get dumber every year.
They are MY kids and it's MY money, so it should be MY decision which school they go to.
>>152412
>Separation of church and state.
My kids and my money, the state has fuck all to do with it and shouldn't be interfering beyond mandating basic standards.
>>152441
>Tell me why a single cent of anyone's hard earned taxes should be spend on funding religious organisations they don't support.
It's MY FUCKING MONEY.
>>152480
>>152478
>>152477
>MY money
It's tax payers' money, not just your money. It's arguably unconstitutional to force other tax payers to support your preference to support religious institutions, per the First Amendment. The converse situation is not true, however. Your tax dollars funding the existence of secular public schools does not remotely violate your constitutional rights.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing prohibiting you from providing your children with a religious education. You can either home school them, or supplement their public education with church attendance or personal indoctrination in your household. Tax funding is unnecessary in either of these situations.
Edging closer and closer to the American Caliphate of Trump and Jesus, can't wait for the day to finally come.
>>152505
You have no idea how school vouchers and credits work.
It is their money, shut the fuck up.
>>152461
A lot of people seem to think that if we defund Planned Parenthood then a thousand high quality and well-funded (though, not through tax dollars) women's health facilities will magically spring up from the Earth overnight to replace PP. Therefore, to them, there's no need to fund Planned Parenthood.
>>152398
Religious institutions cannot be denied access to generally available programs simply because they're religious. Fag.
>>152511
Great argument
>>152522
Your argument allready failed when the supreme court ruled in favor of the schools. Stuff it and move along faggot.
Public schools have failed. No amount of money or reorganization will save them.
>>152461
Give me one iota of data that proves it does anyone any good and I might consider believing you
Government handouts are simply the general wealth taken from a family, and given back to a family in the form of specialized services. Insulting.
>>152480
I went to a private Christian School. Thankfully I didn't last too long after the teacher slapped my hand with a ruler. I proceded to take that same ruler and swatted her ass. I then got kicked out off the school. My grandparents were pissed they had paid the tuition in full. They paid it not the tax payers do you understand what I'm trying to tell you. My grandparents beat the shit out of me BECAUSE THEY PAID for me to go not the tax payers. Do you get it if you want to put your kids in a PRIVATE CHISTIAN SCHOOL instead of a public school then you and you alone should have to pay for the full tuition not the tax payers.
>>152540
You fucking dumbass, the "taxpayers" dont pay for it. The parents get a credit for the amount of money their taxes would have contributed to the system and they can use that to go to charter schools.
Its especially useful for special needs children like yourself who dont quite understand how the world works.
Taxpayers dont pay anything, they just dont get the tax contribution that would have gone to that students education.
>>152540
Sounds like you're a problem child anon
>>152511
I'm well aware how vouchers and credits work clearly you do not. Here let's wiki it together. Here is the link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher
A school voucher, also called an education voucher, in a voucher system, is a certificate of government funding for a student at a school chosen by the student or the student's parents. The funding is usually for a particular year, term or semester. In some countries, states or local jurisdictions, the voucher can be used to cover or reimburse home schooling expenses. In some countries, vouchers only exist for tuition at private schools.
Ok the very first sentence it states. is a certificate of government funding. Tell me smart person where does the government get money? That's right taxes give Billy here a gold cross he is learning. It is not your money it is the tax payers money that goes into the "vouchers" You don't get money directly taken out of your check for your kids school it goes to the government.
>>152543
Yes yes I was
>>152544
You are so fucking dense.
Everyone pays taxes (thats actually a lie, only 50% pay income tax)
Those taxes go to things like public schooling.
If someone obstains from public schooling, like homeschooling, they are reimbursed the money that would have been spent on their child because their kid is not using the public education system.
Vouchers and other systems like ESAs allow people to take that money, literally THEIR money, not "the tax payers" and take it to a charter school.
Are you actually this fucking retarded you cant understand this measley little concept?
>>152546
Done arguing with a Bible thumper no point in arguing with someone who still believes that dinosaur's are demons created by the devil and that the world is only thousands of years old. Wait wait do you believe the world is flat as well?
The issue really is just quality in general. My private Christian school charged about 6,000$ a year (10,000$ for HS) and I got a phenomenal education, got a full ride to a great college and am debt free with a good job.
I think US public schools spend an average of like 30,000$ on each student?? Absurd amount if money on gimmicky technology, state of the art athletic feilds, sweet government pensions and bloated administration and cluttered beuracracy.
And your kids learns about absolutely nothing helpful while trying to evade drugs and violence at every turn
>>152548
Aww someone got upset that they are wrong.
Maybe he really is a special needs kid.
See if you supported school choice kids like you might be able to get the help they need.
Go on, its ok. Go and cry back to léddit nigger.
>>152548
Christians arent all fundamentalist Presbyterians anon
>>152552
Hey, Presbyterians can drink at least.
We're not as bad as baptists.
>>152553
Baptists don't drink? WTF Is that true?
>>152552
You are right about that anon I apologize that was abit out of line. As for the the other dipshit he is wrong the private schools shouldn't get money from the government whether they think that there paying for the full amount or not. That it's "there money" paying for it. Oh wow first time I've been called a nigger maybe I'll take my big black dick over to your mother's I know from experience that she would love it hahaha
>>152555
Literally been the running joke for a few hundred years.
From wikipedia:
Abstentionism
The abstentionist position is held by manyBaptists,[210]Pentecostals,[211]Nazarene,Methodists,[212]and otherevangelicalandProtestantgroups including theSalvation Army.
>>152557
>still cant formulate a proper argument
I literally explained vouchers step by step and you still dont understand?
Holy shit your parents should have beat you more.
>>152454
>female vaginas
Are you implying that there are multiple genders with vaginas?
Because if you are, you deserve to have your fingers cut off, stabbed in the eyes and drowned in a trash can.
The same fate as that raccoon I trapped last week.
>>152540
>My grandparents beat the shit out of me BECAUSE THEY PAID for me to go not the tax payers.
Your grandparents were STILL PAYING PUBLIC SCHOOL TAX when they forked over all that money to send your useless ass to private school.
That's the whole point behind vouchers; only those who can afford to pay for private school AND pay public school tax on top of that, can provide the advantages of private school for their kids (which was clearly wasted on you...)
Everybody else's kids are fucked and stuck in shitty public schools.
>>152454
Im a huge proponant of male vaginas
>>152505
>It's tax payers' money, not just your money.
It's MY money that I pay _directly_ out of MY property taxes and it should be MY decision on where I spend MY money for schooling MY kids, not the fucking teachers union and bunch of parasitical education system bureaucrats.
> Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing prohibiting you from providing your children with a religious education.
Except for the fact that I'd _still_ have to pay public school tax when I'm sending my kids to a private school.
>>152559
No I get it you just can't get your head out of your ass and see I'm going to try one more time to see if you get this ok. You are getting money back from the government for taking your kid out of public school and putting your kid in private schools so the money that would go to public school is know going to your private school of your choice. That's great right yeah better education and probably smaller class sizes all good things. Yes? we're all on bored we all get that riiight. Now stay with me because this is where it's blowing over your head the government is know seeing this and there going to want and actually now are thanks to betsy devos are going to fund programs for private schools with tax payers money. Do you get it now? You maybe paying for the tuition but there are going to be tax payers money going into the school as well so no you are not paying for it with all your money god fuck damn have a good fucking day and may Christ be with you dipshit
>>152571
No.
There is no direct funding of private schools with tax payer money.
Thats not how any of this is working.
I laid it out step by step and you put your fingers in your ears and are going "LALALALALA MAGICAL SKY FAIRY AHAHAH CHRIST FAG HAHAHA"
Because you might actually be mentally retarded.
But please, feel free to disgaree with the highest court in the land.
Also feel free to jump infront of a semi.
>>152571
> fund programs for private schools with tax payers money.
No, I’m using MY money to pay for MY kids education.
It doesn't matter what is done to the public school system, it's going to be a failure either way.
The public school system represents another socialist program that cannot sustain itself and gets worse every year.
Until the school system admits that all of the problems it has are due to political correctness, it will never get better.
No amount of vouchers or deck chairs on the titanic forms of federal funding are going to change the fact that the schools need to be segregated and held to different standards of education.
Also, the idea of not allowing Christian religious teaching, but simultaneously encouraging teachers to have classes on Islam, really gets my neurons firing.
At least a Christian based education system will force back some of the degeneracy, even if it is at the expense of the science classes.
The best solution is to give parents subsidies for choosing to homeschool their children. Then make it more heavily online based, instead of classroom based. This would reduce the number of students and faculty needed in a physical school and all of the problems that go along with that.
Yea I don't have anything to add to this particular argument you guys are having....I just want to talk and hopefully be heard
If were going to fix or at least drastically improve the 100 year old factory line public school structure than we need to look into "controlled choice"
It's a system that works primarily through district wide school choice where the high levels of poverty in some schools are dessimnated throughout the district so no school has to deal excerbated failure by 95 percent (for instance) of their students coming from impovershed backgrounds (black white yellow whatever fucking color they may be isn't considered just their social standing and family situations)
At the same time public schools are put to compete with eachother...and meet basic federal and state standards because public should be responsible for instilling a certain amount of civillity in there children (definitely not standardized testing, thats fucking awful)
Schools compete by offering unique programs that attract parents to the school. Parents are given a first second and third choice of school in the district...schools underpicked year after year will either need to close down, or adopt programs and functions similar to that of overly chosen schools....
Its really a more complicated solution than what I advocate for here and if you want to learn more about it look up the Harvard education scholar Richard D. Kahlenberg
His book All Together Now should be the seminal book that begins to lead us out of current state of education in the U.S. Today
>>152567
>Except for the fact that I'd _still_ have to pay public school tax when I'm sending my kids to a private school.
I'm with you. Fucking communists are pissed that they can't brainwash your children in the manner they want.
>>152544
You are so unbelievably stupid.
>>152398
So fucking stupid. Why are people so ignorant as to think public school doesn't push religious beliefs? Do you think when your child is surrounded by a bunch of faggot atheists that they're not going to be pushing their beliefs on them, too? It's just what people do. Do you think people who aren't Christian/whatever just don't have beliefs?
Do you have no idea how the human brain works? That we NEED to make decisions, but can know NOTHING, so we must have beliefs in order to function?
Sad to tell all your wonderful intellectuals, but the argument that dinosaurs are or are not a test from God is a BELIEF because you sure as fuck can't know. We don't know if there's a fucking spaghetti monster ruling over everything, we can't know if this is all just the Matrix, we can't know if you're not just a hallucination of someone's imagination.
We have the scientific method. We can be relatively sure about things. But KNOWING anything is not something that is possible. Ever.
So yes, everything is a fucking belief. Some things are a greater leap than others...but sure as fuck your kids in a public school are going to be introduced to all kinds of beliefs because everyone asks "why am I here" and every dumbass HAS to have an answer or they will SHUT DOWN like a computer without a fucking BIOS.
>>152416
Allahu Akbar.
>>152588
>Also, the idea of not allowing Christian religious teaching, but simultaneously encouraging teachers to have classes on Islam, really gets my neurons firing.
Why do you feel the need to make things up on the internet?
>>152638
>because everyone asks "why am I here" and every dumbass HAS to have an answer or they will SHUT DOWN like a computer without a fucking BIOS.
That's not even remotely true. Ever heard of existentialist absurdism? Ever heard of nihilism? Those are just two; philosophy is flooded with belief systems that give a big existential shrug when faced with the question, "why am I here." There is no reason, there is no answer. You can make up whatever bs floats your way but that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to simply accept that their life has no intrinsic meaning or purpose.
>>152693
Im sorry you havent found your porpoise is life anon. :<
>>152398
For centuries organized religion was a tool in the hands of ruling class to maintain the "god given" social order of rich and poor. To create an obedient and dumb worker and voter became the goal of your public schools. Now with the addition of religious dogma. This process correlates with the binding of government and business.
There is a saying in my country, I don't know if there is a similar one in english:
the fish begins to rot from the head.
You cant have a better schooling system without a better political or economic system.
>>152461
Why not just pay poor/uneducated women to get sterilized?
tempted to bump this as an example of america's misguided priorities