Betsy DeVos Refuses to Rule Out Giving Funds to Schools That

>Representative Katherine M. Clark, Democrat of Massachusetts, asked how Ms. DeVos would respond to a state that gave federal funding to a school that denied admission to students from lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender families.

>“For states that have programs that allow for parents to make choices, they set up the rules around that,” Ms. DeVos replied.

>Though she said the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights would vigorously investigate any discrimination claims, Ms. DeVos declined to say how, specifically, she might protect students’ rights by intervening in state funding decisions.

>“I’m shocked that you were unable to find one example of discrimination against students that you would be willing to stand up to,” Ms. Clark said.

>Ms. DeVos maintained that parents should have the final say in what kind of schools their children attend. “Too many children today are trapped in schools that don’t work for them,” she said. “We have to do something different.”

>She offered similar reasoning when asked whether schools that received voucher money would be required to uphold special education students’ due process rights.

>“If a parent chooses to go to a school that is not a public school, then that is a decision made and a contract made with that provider,” she said.

>The education budget calls for cutting about $9 billion, or 13 percent of the department’s funding, from about 20 programs, including the Special Olympics for students with disabilities, after-school programs for low-income students and programs for gifted students.

>Since the budget’s release Tuesday, opponents have expressed alarm at how much it targets student-centered programs. The department’s cuts to programs that help students pay for college, such as work-study and subsidized loans, have drawn the most ire.

>John B. King Jr., who served as education secretary under President Barack Obama and now leads the Education Trust, a think tank, said it was an “assault on the American dream.”

>“No one in good conscience could stand up and say this budget makes sense for the interests of students and the long-term interest of the country,” Mr. King said.

>However, supporters called the cuts long overdue. The conservative Heritage Foundation said the spending blueprint “signals a serious commitment to reducing federal intervention in education — a necessary condition to make space for a restoration of state and local control.”

>Ms. DeVos told committee members that while the cuts might be alarming, they reflected “tough choices” on programs that had been deemed ineffective or duplicative. More money has not translated into success for the nation’s public schools, she said, citing a $7 billion program targeting low-performing schools that did not improve student outcomes.

>Republican members of the committee agreed, and praised Ms. DeVos for her emphasis on school choice and better outcomes for students.

>“I think there is no question that we don’t get a bang for our buck in the American education system,” said Representative Andy Harris, Republican of Maryland. “We are failing in a global education economy.”

>The Failing New York Times

>>143327
>Betsy DeVos Refuses to Rule Out Giving Funds to Schools That Discriminate

And this is news to anyone? The ultimate goal of DeVos' lobbying is to force children into predominantly religious private schools so they'll be indoctrinated with Judeo-Christian beliefs. Probably the only reason she's working under the Trump administration is because she had sufficient resources to bribe him for the position. Prior to appointing her, Trump even stated that her views were retarded.

>>143367
School choice isn't an evil plot you fucking retard

PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SHIT YOU FUCKING RETARD

>>143371

Private schools are also shit. They have a lot of autonomy and can refuse to enroll your children based on discriminatory factors like your religious beliefs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

If DeVos wants to abolish public education and hand out vouchers, then do so under the provision that said vouchers cannot be redeemed through schools that don't maintain secular values and curricula. DeVos' agenda will quickly become clear.

>>143376
Wrong. I've been to several private schools. Theyre in a league of their own compared to public schools.

They also can't discriminate, they do discriminate based on numbers.

Also school choice /voucher system allows poor families to attend wealthy school districts, it's a great idea

>>143376
>If DeVos wants to abolish public education
You're so fuckin dumb.

>>143376

Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of all funds expended for their children’s education.

We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended. We call for the repeal of the guarantees of tax-funded, government-provided education, which are found in most state constitutions.

We condemn compulsory education laws, which spawn prison-like schools with many of the problems associated with prisons, and we call for an immediate repeal of such laws. Until government involvement in education is ended, we support elimination, within the governmental school system, of forced busing and corporal punishment. We further support immediate reduction of tax support for schools, and removal of the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children.

>>143395

The most important step in the crisis in education is to end government control of education. We must move toward a system where parents have good, safe, affordable choices for educating their children. To transfer control of education from bureaucrats to parents and teachers and encourage alternatives to the public school monopoly, the Libertarian Party would:

Support a true market in education -- one in which parents and students would not be stuck with a bad local school, because they could choose another.
Implement measures such as tax credits so that parents will have the financial ability to choose among schools.

Provide financial incentives for businesses to help fund schools and for individuals to support students other than their own children.

Eliminate the U.S. Department of Education, which spends billions on education and educates no one. The growth of this agency and its numerous regulations is a major reason for runaway costs in American schools.

We advocate the complete separation of education and State. We oppose denial of tax-exempt status to schools because of those schools’ private policies. We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether for profit or non-profit. We condemn compulsory education laws. We further support immediate reduction of tax support for schools, and removal of the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children.

>>143396
I think this sounds like regular shool

Not libertarian school

>>143371
>PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SHIT YOU FUCKING RETARD

Then fix them.

>>143401
Public school can only be so good. Its the government... Just like how military rations can't taste as good as good as a home cooked meal.

>>143371
Then the money should be directed into fixing that instead of driving people into private schools.

>>143404
For the money, military rations are actually pretty tasty. The same applies to public school: Sure, if you can afford to hire a private tutor to educate your kid, then yes, the results will probably be better regardless, but for the rest of us they can offer excellent value for the taxpayer money that is spent on them.

>>143409
No shit. That's why I made that analogy.

If you think anyone wants to abolish public school completely you're a fucking retard.

>>143378
Unfortunately studies are showing poorer kids attending more expensive schools has led to worse performance. I don't really get it, and it's surprising, but there it is.

>>143465
You're willfully dellusional.

>>143467
Personally I haven't decided either way on school choice, or some of the related issues and details. That doesn't change that these studies exist. I only pointed them out to help inform the debate here.

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/05/21/522051355/why-its-so-hard-to-know-whether-school-choice-is-working

I want to support whatever is going to help kids get a good(most importantly), and hopefully fair public education.

>>143475
>I want to support whatever is going to help kids get a good(most importantly), and hopefully fair public education.
I would also add another goal should be an education free of ideological bias insofar as possible.

>>143475
Data shows otherwise, like literally hundreds of empirical studies show that school choice is phenomenally better than districts -

https://www.edchoice.org/school_choice_faqs/does-school-choice-have-a-positive-academic-impact-on-participating-students/

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=25919971&bcid=25919971&rssid=25919961&item=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.edweek.org%2Fv1%2Few%2F%3Fuuid%3D86E214AA-5982-11E1-9889-76E301ADD654

https://www.cato.org/blog/evidence-school-choice-works

http://watchdog.org/266848/one-hundred-studies-school-choice/

http://www.will-law.org/school-choice-works/

>>143480
Haha, to me that falls under "good." Esperanto as first language in schools when

>>143475
>>143480
Whatever, commie. Fuck your implications.

>>143356
Haven't their stock prices almost doubled since this time last year?

NyTimes , WashPost, and CNN are something else these days. Can't let a moment slip without shitting on everything on the right I guess

>>143487
I sincerely hope you're joking. Esperanto doesn't compare in the slightest to the market power of English and Chinese.

>>143327
>plans to spend $1.4 billion on the Trump administration’s expanded school choice agenda

Good, they're are MY kids and it's MY tax dollars and I should have the right to decide where and what kinda school they attend.

ALL school taxes should be returned to the tax payers in the form of vouchers, allowing parents to use THEIR OWN MONEY how they see fit (school taxes from those without kids can continuing going to public schools).

Fuck you, Leftists! Schools exist to educate children, not to provide cushy jobs for the teacher's union.

>>143624
The libs know that public school is indoctrination.

>>143627

>education is indoctrination
>education leading to liberal values isn't a result of liberal merits so much as it is a massive brainwashing jew conspiracy

You can't be this fucking retarded. Like, why the fuck are you on my planet.

>>143624
>and it's MY tax dollars and I should have the right to decide where and what kinda school they attend.
Actually your tax dollars go to a specific school based on property taxes you stupid fuck, so you go to the school that you live in. It's done because property taxes are the most stable and less likely to get fucked.

>>143624
>ALL school taxes should be returned to the tax payers in the form of vouchers, allowing parents to use THEIR OWN MONEY how they see fit
The problem with this is it's used to go to charter schools that are using public school resources to provide better results. If you got rid of the charter schools and invested their funds directly into the schools they're abusing you'd see improvement.

>>143661
See
>>143483

>>143627
Conservatives pretend this is about Choice and Market instead of indoctrinating kids in their preferred way (fear of outgroups)

>>143709
Like the left has been doing for decades?

>>143662
A list of he first 5 results on a google algorithm set to "libertarian shill"

Very fucking impressive.

>>143661
>The problem with this is it's used to go to charter schools that are using public school resources to provide better results.
Sounds like the problem is with public schools then.

>If you got rid of the charter schools and invested their funds directly into the schools they're abusing you'd see improvement.
Except for when public schools DID have those funds/resources, they did fuck all with them and showed no improvement. Given that the US already spends more per student than any other nation when it comes to public education, there's no reason to think they'd sudden;y improve with even more money thrown at them.

Give parents more choices, make schools compete. You will see far better results, and if public schools are unable to keep up, the fault again lies with public schools for being, among other things, obsolete.

>>143718
No we tell kids to mind their own freaking buissness and get to work. Why the fuck should we pay to teach kids about a bronze age fairy tale that wont help them be productive. What help will it be in helping them learn how ro do a job? Not to mention why should we teach them to care if someone like guys or girls its not their fucking issue. The left doesnt care what the fuck adults do in the bedroom.

>>143709
So I should submit to your indoctrination? You're an asshole. Just leave me alone.

>>143630
There's nothing liberal about the communist values currently taught in schools.

I LIKE America, asshole. I don't want to be Europe.or any other country. Fuck you.

>Public schools are indoctrination
>So I'll send my kid to this religious school that may or may not be ran by a cult

>>143378
Watch the hearing. One of the reps questioning her specifically brought up an example of a school that refuses to admit anyone that is homosexual or comes from a family that has homo family members. The rep cited this school as they would be egilble to apply for federal funding with what DeVos has told us so far.

>>143395
>free market does it best
>every country in the world that beats us uses public/socialist system

Could you go into more detail?

>>143794
Shouldn't parents decide how to indoctrinate their kids?

Who do you think you are? Do you even have kids?

>>143661
> > and it's MY tax dollars and I should have the right to decide where and what kinda school they attend.
> Actually your tax dollars go to a specific school based on property taxes

And it’s completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with providing a education, it’s about funding the teachers union and education bureaucracy.

> > ALL school taxes should be returned to the tax payers in the form of vouchers, allowing parents to use THEIR OWN MONEY how they see fit
> The problem with this is it's used to go to charter schools that are using public school resources to provide better results.

But that’s not a “problem". Again; they are MY kids and it’s MY money (not "public school resources") and should be MY decision.

> If you got rid of the charter schools and invested their funds directly into the schools they're abusing you'd see improvement.

American has the highest per-student costs on the planet, yet the results are no where near comparable to the money being dumped into the corrupt system.

>>143798
School voucher =/= federal funding

>>143798
whats the problem? Sexual orientation shouldn't be protected.

>>143921
You want to have a private school that refuses gays/Muslims what ever great.

Just don't take my tax payer dollars to prop yourself up.

>>143926
We should put all the gays and Muslims into one school and host a reality TV show, can you imagine the carnage?

>>143330
>>143367>>143376
>>143376

Why are so many democrats( and seemingle most liberals) against state rights and control? The peole can actually elect mayors, congressmen, house reps, and governors directly. They can even attend town hall meetings to voice their opinions directly. Why is this such a problem? Why does the referral government NEED to be in control of everything and force every citizen near and far from Washington to BEND to their rule despite the unique situations, needs, or circumstances that may exist in that state? Does this not ensure the people have a higher chance of having their voice heard as long as they are vocal and participate in theit governement? Democrats should be for this??

I like that Trump got elected only because it forced most, if not all lazy citizens to wake up and realize that we are a federation if states, not one country under a tyrant. If they want to make sure most of their demands and needs are met, they need only focus mainly on their local governent and PARTICIPATE. Otherwise democracy is useless.

>>143936
Because a unified foundation for education is better than the alternative. Your child could be nothing short of a literal genius from a tough school, but across the state/county line, the standards for their students are way lower for whatever reason. Both students would be getting A's and B's according to their teachers, but the scale for those grades are wildly different.
This can currently happen now, just look at small town schools that gives passes to their football students. But they are at least going to have to deal with a national standard. I hate standardized testing but I understand why the idea is prevalent. The current system is far from perfect, with blame falling on teachers, administrators, and politicians for dragging their feet on the issue. But we can hardly trust local gov to do simple roadwork/zoning right now, setting up an educational system would be monumental in comparison.

>state gave funding to a school that denied admission to snowflakestudent families.
I'm surprised they're even allowed to do that.
>Heritage Foundation
Come, guys. Enough with the memes for this nonsense.
DeVos is a greedy fgt
>>143465
>I don't really get it
It's like sending a Spanish speaking kid into an English only school. A terrible comparison, but it's a fish out of water scenario for the most part. 9/10 times they're just not equipped to handle the work load / curriculum, and the school isn't willing to help them directly.
>>143744
The free market will not fix education, stop memeing. The biggest problem with private schools is their lack of a requirement to follow anything resembling a national standard, unless they want to, and they almost never do.
>>143867
>But that’s not a “problem"
It is given you used that semicolon incorrectly.
>American has the highest per-student costs on the planet, yet the results are no where near comparable to the money being dumped into the corrupt system.
Do you honestly believe that is purely because of the "corrupt system"? Not a combination of situations at home, the school's condition, the neighborhood's condition, the teachers, the curriculum and the students themselves? Do you have any idea about what you're prattling on about?
Prove you have kids, fku
>>143936
>Why are so many democrats( and seemingle most liberals) against state rights and control?
Because a lot of the time the last time we cried about state's rights it was to ban gay marriage, abortion and keep slaves.
>They can even attend town hall meetings to voice their opinions directly. Why is this such a problem?
Because you are young and do not have a life or a family where this isn't as easy as your paragraph makes it out to be.
>force every citizen near and far from Washington to BEND to their ... ?
Because regardless of how much of a snowflake you think you are, your situations do not out weight the group at large. You know, the rest of the country.

>>143978
> Because a unified foundation for education is better than the alternative.

Required state/national educational standards doesn’t preclude local parental control of schools via vouchers.

>>143936
Reminder that Republicans are only pro states' rights then it matches their agenda.

>>143988
> > American has the highest per-student costs on the planet, yet the results are no where near comparable to the money being dumped into the corrupt system.
> Do you honestly believe that is purely because of the "corrupt system"? Not a combination of situations at home, the school's condition, the neighborhood's condition, the teachers, the curriculum and the students themselves?

Throwing MORE money at the already fucked up system that parents have virtually no control over, clearly doesn’t work.

American schools are already the most expensive on Earth and not only does over half of my property taxes go to the public school system, they get bazillions of dollars from the state lottery and this somehow _still_ isn’t enough for them, thus the never ending “fund raisers” and even run-of-the-mill bullshit like a Friday after school dance, charges admission.

The American public school system is a racket only the mafia (or the teachers union…) could love and is designed to benefit the teachers and school system bureaucrats.

And I’ll point out that from 1/4-1/3 of public school teachers send THEIR kids to private schools.

>>143988
"Devos is a greedy fgt"

If this is the height of leftist argument then I think schools are in bigger trouble than we thought

>>144020
If that's all you took from his post, you're only speaking for yourself.

>>143988
>9/10 times
It's a pretty slight negative trend, actually. 9/10 is a huge exaggeration.

>>143996 is that the best you can do? Nice job dancing around the question.
I'm independent and I'm pro states rights for everything. You act like republicans are controlling every state. No, they are not. Besides wheather some state is a red state or blue, it should be the voices of the people who dictate how they want their local government to run,
Not folks in Washington. If all citizens want to be equally represented in their state, they must participate and they all have the opportunity to do so. Otherwise democray is pointless. It's just populism mixed with people who forfeited their right of self government to the executive powers.
Answer my question next time. What was the point of democracy?

>>144032
>What was the point of democracy?
Ask Socrates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk

>>144034
In short: If you deprive the populous of their education, you'll likely see that your democracy devolves into demagoguery, plutocracy, oligarchy, and finally, autocracy.

Democracy should be taught in schools, but the Oligarchs see it as a threat to their power and wealth. Therefore, they acquired the stranglehold over the GOP to do their bidding; the same kind that slaveholders held over their politicians to get them to form the Confederacy after Lincoln's inauguration.

Trump may encourage that the citizens get off their asses vote, but their lack of education and luxurious lifestyle will only make matters worst.

>>143988
>>143978
see>>144032
Then what is the point of democracy? Of people are "too busy or lazy" to make time to participate in their own government like the have the freedom too, why not just support oligarchy? In local government, citizens of a particular state have the chance to have their voice heard as they directly elect their candidates to a support their wishes.Obviously it would be a majority ruke situation based on what mist citizebs decide. Why should votors in Arizona or Indiana determine laws on New jersey and vice versa when each state has unique circumstances and people ? How is federal control from Washington of many policies throughout all 50 states better for democracy? how is what I said special snowflakism? I haven't heard any great arguments against state rights besides, huur "what if some people in a state disagree with some laws or it negatively affects them, then they will have to move." Well they had a chance to vote for their opinions directly . If the majority of people in the state are for certain policies, then that reflects the most of the people in that state want. If men and women in any state want to keep/make abortion legal, they must simply vote for representatives and push for petitions to make it so. Otherwise, their voices will not be heard and their silence will be taken as apathy or agreement.
This is why the amount of immigrants who do not file citizenship or worse, are illegal, is a problem. By doing this, they make themselves passive and unable to participate in democracy as it was intended.

>>144034
>>144036
Ah so now,we get to the root of the problem. Democracy will always be useless if the population is too unwilling to participate and educate themselves about what is going on. The problem is, votors on both sides (not just Trump supporters) are ignorant as shit and lazy(oh I'm sorry "too busy" to utilize their privilege to participate as you or anither anon pointed out. Democracy seems inherently unustainable and transient. The larger the population,comfort levels, and ignorance, the less likely they seem to care about their privilege.

Something as of critical as education should not be handled by the government.

The goal should be there elimination of the department of education.

School vouchers should be the standard. School choice had always been proven better.

>>144055
How do you assure that the schools available for your kid are teaching them all the right things to be a well rounded independent thinker? You know like teaching them the importance of empirical evidence, being informed, and participating in their democratic government as citizens? All this without braining washing them with loads of (libral or conservative) propaganda? How do we assure as a nation that all if not most kids' parents have that option and more importantly, will be inclined to make that decision? Otherwise, we could have a lot of education inequality and kids who are not on par with their peers later in life. Not to mention, not being free thinkers.

>>144322
Capitalism and competition. That worked for every other market. It'll work for school too.

You're just worried people are going to teach their kids to be less leftist.

I KNOW that's what you faggot ass liberals are afraid of. Never in my life did we disagree that public school was shit. It's usually leftists saying it too.

Now all of a sudden, when republicans agree we should have school choice, democrats love public school.

Liberal's only principle seems to be "fuck republicans."

>>144322
>How do you assure that the schools available for your kid are teaching them all the right things to be a well rounded independent thinker?

The current school system indoctrinates parents to not give a shit and just dump their kid off at school, as the parents have essentially no control over any aspect of their kid’s school and their complaints mean nothing.

Vouchers on the other hand, would encourage parents to actually give a damn, as they’d literally have the school property tax check in their hand and would have visable concrete evidence of just how much money they’re forking over.

And you can be assured that if you’re signing over that check (and putting in MORE of your own money for a private school) you’re going to be involved in your kid’s education and the running of the school.

>>144328
This. Voucher system is praised in literally every instance it's been used. It gets parents invested/involved as well.

School Districts and teacher unions suck

>>144324
You really can't say it has worked for every market because the US has always had a mixed economy.

There are too many instances where profit incentive is counterproductive toward social and macroeconomic interests.

>Now all of a sudden, when republicans agree we should have school choice, democrats love public school.

Policy should be determined by data and expert consensus. DeVos is incapable of that because she's a one-trick pony. She came into office with the goal shrinking the department of education and funneling taxpayer money to private schools, and that's the conclusion shes come to after all.

>>144038
I'm not sure where you've been, but it's been an oligarchy for a while now. We vote for representatives of our will, not our will specifically. People already don't vote in elections from national to super small local. The last election barely pulled 50% participation.

Plus local democracy can be tarded because locals themselves are tarded. That's why groups of people vote up representatives in the first place, and that's why state can sometimes override them, and national can override state. That's also why we have the judicial system, to prevent overreach from local/state/federal. It doesn't always work but the system only gets better with experience/precedent.

>they had a chance to vote for their opinions directly

Are you assuming that people who complain about policy never voted in the first place? Because a lot of people do vote, the other guy wins, and then they disagree with said other guy. I know I did, and my state's legislature is a gerrymandered mess.

Never in my life have I seen local government work efficiently, and left to their own devices, it would be damn near catastrophic. Every town would only look out for themselves, and the richest cities would exert their will over several. You think oligarchy is bad? Try aristocracy, a hyperactive form of what we have now.

>>144485
>You really can't say it has worked for every market because the US has always had a mixed economy.
That's why we're slipping. We tried to become communist. We need to return to the invisible hand if we are to once again become number one. Personally, I wouldn't mind if we replaced the government with business, but what do I know, I'm just a minarchist who wants to take government down.

>>144328
Parents shouldn't have school control outside of PTA because they're often short-sighted and incapable of thinking about more than their own kid's 'take'.

And they do have the option to take their kids elsewhere, but they'd rather be lazy about it. My town had 3 high schools barely 10 minutes from each other, with charters sprinkled around. The choices are out there, but they hear "inner city school" or "our bus routes don't overlap with your location" or some such, and they give up. They fucking give up, on their kid.

The only people who might have a valid complaint are rurals, which it's your own fucking fault for staying rural. If it bothers them that much, setting up home schooling has never been easier.

>>144504
>people actually want a megacorporation
>costanza.jpg
minarchist is the most fedora term I've heard all day

>>144505
> Parents shouldn't have school control outside of PTA because they're often short-sighted and incapable of thinking about more than their own kid's 'take'.

Typical statist thinking; “the People are just stupid peasants, WE know what’s good for them” (i.e. what’s good for us)

> And they do have the option to take their kids elsewhere

Not unless they have sufficient income to BOTH pay the full cost of a private school and continue paying the full cost of the public school tax, which they aren’t using.

It’s a system that blatantly favors the rich and perpetuates an unjust system, insuring that the children of the elite get the best education possible and grow up to assume the same elite status of their parents, while the peasants have to make due with public schools of indifferent quality at best.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/opinion/ct-reeder-column-st-0312-20170310-story.html
March 10, 2017

A study found that 39 percent of CPS teachers send their children to private schools

For example, a 2004 Fordham Institute study found that 39 percent of Chicago public school teachers send their own children to private schools. That's compared to a national average of 12 percent of all children who are educated privately.

Think about that.

Four out of 10 Chicago teachers are willing to pay money to keep their kids from attending the schools where they teach.

That speaks volumes.

Those teachers have school choice because they can afford it.

Why shouldn't all families be afforded the same opportunity?

>discriminating
>adjective
>(of a person) having or showing refined taste or good judgment.

>>143404
You're right, we should hold military funding so we can give out gormet meal vouchers to a select few while the rest eat dirt or starve
The only difference between that scenario and DeVos' education plan is that the military isn't currently underfunded, unlike public schools

>>144589
>Those teachers have school choice because they can afford it.
>Why shouldn't parents have the same opportunity?

Because conservatives have never been big on handouts, and what you describe sounds like a pretty big handout.
"If they want to afford (x), then they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work harder."

>>143406
>Just throw money at it and it will be fixed

>>143709
>instead of indoctrinating kids in their preferred way

Libs have been doing this with higher education for decades

>>147695
You need to couple it with other things but it helps a fuckton honestly.

>>144328
>>144459
Vouchers duck over poor areas and schools though.

>>147705
Yeah, the problem is partially because states constantly try to defund their education systems. My old state had a yearly referendum and I'm pretty sure people were more than happy to pay for prison infrastructure rather than schools.

>>144994
>Because conservatives have never been big on handouts, and what you describe sounds like a pretty big handout.

How is it a "handout"?! It's MY money and it should be MY decision as to which school MY kids attend.

All vouchers do is put MY money back in MY hands and allow me to make the best decision for MY kids.

>>147709
>Vouchers duck over poor areas and schools though.

Do even know how school taxes work? If you're poor, you pay X amount of school tax but if you want to send your kid to a better private school, you have to somehow come up with the money to pay for that private school, while STILL PAYING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL TAX.

School vouchers would allow poorer parents to send their kids to better schools, instead of trapping those kids in shitty schools and a never ending cycle of ignorance and poverty.

>>143997
Maybe if we didn't commit so much of that funding to nonsense standardized tests passed on the GOP platform, they'd be a little cheaper.

And while this may be patronising, there are shitloads of parents who don't even know how to -raise- their children. Do you think those people understand what it takes to teach those children? Do you think it will benefit those children for their parents to have more direct control over their lives? This genuinely hurts rural families over urban or suburban families. And anyone who wants access to better decisionmaking in schools will have to try and find ways to move into areas that have shown this. The real estate near better schools will be very valuable. And thus, you facilitate the movement of ignorant and non-ignorant. You associate them with poor, and rich likewise. And you create enclaves with nothing alike. This country is divided enough.

This is distinctly similar to the bottom line mentality of No Child Left Behind. You threaten those who don't meet the bottom line. But they don't go away. Life just becomes more difficult for them. They have to drive farther to go to schools that haven't shut down. Certain schools are crowded, others rot. civic planning around the education system becomes moot. And there is more pressure on families surrounding underperforming schools.

And what's gonna fuck with your ability to remember things? We're pretty sure it's stress. This is a prophesy that reinforces itself as long as it's acted on.

>>148002
> Maybe if we didn't commit so much of that funding to nonsense standardized tests passed on the GOP platform, they'd be a little cheaper.

Americans school are the most expensive on Earth (with no where near the results to show for the money) because of the strangle hold the teachers union and education bureaucracy have on the schools. Standardized testing and No Child Left Behind are attempts to make it appear someone is doing something about shitty system, without actually doing anything to fix the underlying problem.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/wp-content/uploads/cato_-_nat_tot_chart_-_coulson_-_april_2013_551.jpg

> And while this may be patronising, there are shitloads of parents who don't even know how to -raise- their children.

“May be patronizing”?….

> And anyone who wants access to better decisionmaking in schools will have to try and find ways to move into areas that have shown this.

So the rich continue to get good educations and everybody else gets shitty schools. Thanks, man.

>>143371
This. Public school sucks. I knew more about the subject the so called "teachers" were even teaching. I have had literally only had 5 teachers that were actually good, knowledgeable, passionate, creative, and gave a fuck about the students grasp on the subject. The rest of them would just regurgitate some BS to fill out on the worksheet and not be able to answer questions in depth, not interact with the class at all besides yelling if a "rule" was broke and then would wonder why the kids hated being their class.

>>147977
When you pay taxes, that's not your money anymore. Your only way to influence how it gets spent is by voting in appropriate candidates. That money goes to way more than just schools, so yes, taking that money back out in the form of a voucher is a handout.

>>148382
Whatever, as long as the money has to go to education then I'm fine with people deciding on where the money goes

>>148382
> When you pay taxes, that's not your money anymore.

So if the mafia shakes you down for “protection money”, you’d be fine with that?

> Your only way to influence how it gets spent is by voting in appropriate candidates.

Indeed, candidates who support school vouchers.

> That money goes to way more than just schools

No, school taxes goes to the school system and it’s the largest segment of your property taxes (that is, your parent’s property taxes…) and parents have virtually no control over that money.

Re: homos, gays, lesbos, etc. schools shouldn't have to treat mental illnesses which is exactly what those are

"They" don't want you to think for yourself. Only follow directions and submit to perceived authority.

>>148580
So you compare government to the mafia, I see we're off to a great start.
Taxes are more like the dues you would pay if your child was a boy/girl scout. Which is another thing you really have little to no say over how it gets spent.

>they go into the school system
They go into the pool, which is then budgeted yearly for renovations, pay, infrastructure, sports/art programs, for each individual school based on factors like overall population. I'd say you are paying for several schools at that point, but you aren't, because it's not your money anymore. You willfully signed over that money to stay in the club, and the club's elected leaders get to say where it goes.

If the majority of citizens want a voucher system, then please bring forth a petition that shows as much. Otherwise, fuck off until the next voting cycle.

>>148623
>Willfully signed over where if you don't pay you go to jail

>>143996
Examples?

>>143928
>Carnage

Assuming you mean the hardcore. You'd get better results with mixed sex classrooms.

In shitsand countries dudes fucking dudes isn't that uncommon so long as you ultimately get married to a female. In fact it is rather common with the lady boy dancer practice because the sexes are so segregated in society.

Younger generation is also a tiny bit more accepting of homos than elders, but not by much.

>>143936
>They can even attend town hall meetings to voice their opinions directly

Now I know you are flat out ignorant of reality. In my state of AL our representative runs from any and all town hall meetings.

He will not answer any calls in person to his office.
His staff lies when he will be around.
When he does visit a town, its to sneak in and visit company leaders in photoshoots.
He has turned down every townmeeting invite to a point our city has done mock ones without him.

The only reason he keeps getting voted back in is because of the good old boy system, he seems like a nice guy on tv, or insert belief of folk tale shit.

States and locals can do a lot of things better than the federal government can, but there still needs to be a federal stick to make sure those two don't ignore the minority of a given area.

>>148640
Then move to another country faggot

>>148623
> So you compare government to the mafia, I see we're off to a great start.

When it comes to school taxes, yes.

American parents are forced to pay “protection money” to the ”mob bosses” in the teachers union and the education bureaucracy for a “service” they don’t want or use and if you refuse to pay up, goons from the IRS will financially “break’a you legs”.

> > they go into the school system
> They go into the pool

The school system pool, the money isn't being used for road construction or other expenditures and I'll remind you again, that bazillions of dollars in _additional_ money is coming from lotto, yet it's never enough while the public schools continue to suck.

> Otherwise, fuck off until the next voting cycle.

We already won this voting cycle, it’s you teachers union parasites who need to fuck off and fuck off permanently.

>>148747
> if you don’t willingly pay exorbitant fees for a corrupt system that's literally harming your children, you should leave.

How about _you_ move to another country?

>>148751
>Exorbitant
>Damaging children
Because I'm not crazy, and taxes are a necessity

>>148748
>We already won this voting cycle
>There was a vote for the Secretary of Education

>>148753
>There was a vote for the Secretary of Education

Um... do you even know WTF this thread is about?

Maybe you need to go back to school.

>>148752
> taxes are a necessity

I agree, but the entire argument is how those taxes are applied and when it comes to the school system, it’s a fucking racket that only benefits the teachers union (1/4-1/3 of whom send _their_ kids to private schools…) and the do-nothing bureaucracy.

There is no objective reason not to adopt school vouchers.

>>148760
Are you sure 1/3 or 1/4 of all teachers in all of America do this?
>Do-nothing bureaucracy
What do you mean by that? Do you have specific examples of school board doing nothing at all, ever?

>>148759
Read the chain fgt
Maybe you need to go back to school.

>>148776
>Are you sure 1/3 or 1/4 of all teachers in all of America do this?

Teachers More Likely to Use Private Schools for their Own Kids
http://educationnext.org/teachers-more-likely-to-use-private-schools-for-their-own-kids/

A study found that 39 percent of CPS teachers send their children to private schools
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/opinion/ct-reeder-column-st-0312-20170310-story.html

Public school teachers more likely to send their kids to private school
http://eagnews.org/survey-public-school-teachers-more-likely-to-send-their-kids-to-private-school/

Why I’m a Public-School Teacher but a Private-School Parent
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/03/why-im-a-public-school-teacher-but-a-private-school-parent/386797/

>>143329
>parents should have a choice
>BIGOT REEEEEEEEEEEEEE