Obama Political Spying Scandal: Trump Associates Were Not the

Buuuuuump!
Citigroup was a terrible president.

>>142921
He also expanded the powers if the NSA and CIA with zero congressional oversight. He'll go down in history as the founder of a massive network of a unconstitutional spy state

He really is a traitor

>>142926
But not gwb?

>>142996
George Bush was trying to keep us safe after 9/11

Obama has no excuse for spying on people. He doesn't even believe in islamic terrorism. This kind of thing, like spying on Trump, its personal.

>>142997
Bush, Obama, even Clinton. They're all the same.

I'm not trading anymore freedoms for their police state security bullshit

>>143003
Tru dat

>>143003
Totally true.
Some people see no problem, no threat.
Crazy.

>>143003
Don't forget Trump; who not only has changed nothing but was promising worse than even Clinton (although at least he's honest about his support for domestic spying).

I basically agree that domestic spying should be prohibited outside of specific instances where a court issues a warrant on a person to person basis, as well as for government officials and political campaigns.
After all of Trump and Hillary's scandals, I don't trust politicians and campaign higher ups not to have cover ups.

I also don't give a shit about spying on people outside of the US. NSA can do that whenever, I don't care.

This article makes no sense. Why shouldn't US intelligence agencies be able to wiretap Trump campaign, or any campaign officials, after a court order issues a warrant for that?

Why shouldn't Obama, the sitting president, ask that a court approve surveillance of a particular individual if they believe there's reason for an investigation of that individual?

What's wrong with any of that?

Isn't it sometimes good to wiretap certain people if a court agrees they should be investigated?

>Was Russia, and specifically the overwrought “Russia hacked the election” narrative, used as camouflage for what was actually a political spying operation?

I believe people are responsible for their own actions, so if someone from the Trump campaign is guilty of treason then they deserve whatever political fallout goes along with that intelligence being reveled.

>>142921

>another article from a right wing website reeking of desperation to get viewers emotionally invested after they get president game show host elected

Sad!

>>143003
Then you should be against Trump by that standard, who's ready to trade your freedoms for cash. Two wrongs don't make a right; spying on citizens is immoral and unconstitutional, no matter why it's being done.

>>143165
What freedoms are you talking about, I've never heard of this

>>143165
What is this even referring to? Care to back it up?

ITT republican hypocrites

>>143141
>I also don't give a shit about spying on people outside of the US. NSA can do that whenever, I don't care.

The problem with this is it can be used as an excuse to listen in to citizen conversations, such as Trump Admin's call to the Russian ambassador.

I would rather advocate for complete transparency for governmental organizations after a very short timeframe, civilians should be able to audit these agencies themselves and bring to light any wrongdoing. It's come to the point where the existence of the NSA and CIA is more a threat to the American people than an aid against terrorism and foreign spying.

>>143174
>>143241
Probably Net Neutrality, one of the things its removal would open the door for is for ISPs to gather customer data use. For example, one of the terms of your contract with Comcast might allow them to return to collecting what websites you browse and selling the data to third parties.

>>143248
So letting entertainment service companies do the same thing web service providers and search engines already do and have been for the last 15 years

Not saying it's ideal, but it's not new

Is there anyone who doesn't know this story is a rehash of years old news in order to distract from the never-ending stream of new findings from the Trump/Russia investigation?

>>143256
I'd rather not keep giving ground. Also, web searches can't revoke my internet service because I decided to use a VPN to hide my web traffic.

>>143146
And Nixon was right to spy on the democrats.

>>143272
And Mcarthism was justified

>>142921
First, the article makes a fair point about overstepping bounds to use wiretapping capabilities to then make leaks to the press, particularly if those capabilities are inherited through specific request.

However, in all the cases cited, the wiretaps were already in place because THE OFFICIALS/LEGISLATORS WERE COMMUNICATING WITH AMBASSADORS OR HEADS OF STATE. Qaddafi's son, Israeli ministers, etc. -- all such communications will be automatically tapped and have never ever needed a warrant to be reviewed by the Executive Branch. Deliberate leaking of such transcripts again may be an ethical issue that probably should be clarified and resolved legally, but it is not currently illegal.

As a practical matter, when legislators are going behind the executive's back to attempt foreign policy and statecraft contrary to the country's current strategy, that is a definite ethical issue that also should have a clarification and legal resolution, because the GOP way overstepped their bounds with that letter to Iran. For the smaller beans, Reagan was kinda in the same boat with Ted Kennedy back in the day as Obama with Kucinich. So the ethics go both ways here, but the GOP letter and the current wiretapping controversies mean that this probably needs legal clarification soon.


As an aside, as it does not affect my argument, just note that the National Review bills itself as "Conservative news" and has of course all the shit that has come with the open and closed bias thereof.

>>143368
These days, theres only right and left wing news.

>>143387
That's all there ever was.

Right wing news says what happened in the world

Left wing news lies about what happened to shape the world

>>143272

Privacy is important but so is security. I think in an optimal society, it should be acceptable to monitor an individual's private communications during an investigation to find criminal wrongdoing.

If law enforcement or intelligence agencies present courts with enough evidence to suggest beyond reasonable doubt that an investigation into an individual's private communications will yield evidence of criminal wrongdoing, then courts should be able to furnish law enforcement with warrants to wiretap or otherwise enter the private property of specific individuals to potentially access more evidence.

If it's acceptable for police to break and enter someone's house to do a search, without someone knowing, and with a warrant, then how is that substantially different with respect to to violating one's privacy when compared to listening into a private phone conversation?

>>143389

>t-t-the news i listen to i-i-is REAL and e-e-verything else is FAKE

Remember there are retards that operate like this both ways people.

>>143273
I don't thinks Mcarthism was justified but I don't think this is comparable to mcarthism because there were legitimate reasons for wiretaps and that's obvious because some folks in the administration now have criminal investigations that look like they will probably lead to convictions.

>>143461
So deep. Everything is equally bad. So deep.

>>142921
This article is bullshit. Like to Fox news, which links to Washington times, which has NO link to the taped. Just click bait ads. Look for yourselves
http://m.washingtontimes.com

>>143520
I don't think anyone can understand what this said

>>143569
I can speak for myself. *fart noise*

>>143152
What's sad is how butthurt you still are. Shillary lost, get over it.

>>143257
Me. I refuse to know this.

>>143257
Left - anything anti left is fake, Russia's the real story!

Right - anything anti right is fake, Deep state is the real story!

At some point we're going to have to take a step back and breath

>>143569
Pretty simple. The article doesn't cite any sources. It links to Fox. Fox links to Washington times, and the Washington times just says "click the links below". All those links are ads. Therefore, the article is just some shill's way of making some ad money

>>143915
Retarded ass liberal making false equivalence. Go fuck yourself.

>>144173

After reading through, I found these citations;

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446456/susan-rice-unmasking-michael-flynn-legal-abuse-power-intelligence-foreign-targets

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446415/susan-rice-unmasking-trump-campaign-members-obama-administration-fbi-cia-nsa

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/229062/did-the-obama-administrations-abuse-of-foreign-intelligence-collection-start-before-trump

TheWall Street Journal, Smith notes, reported in late December 2015 that the targeting “also swept up the contents of some of [the Israeli officials’] private conversations with U.S. lawmakers and American-Jewish groups.”

https://sharylattkisson.com/obama-era-surveillance-timeline/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/03/10/dennis-kucinich-im-no-fan-trumps-but-hes-got-point-about-wiretapping.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/listen-tapes-libya-clinton/

I'm not sure what you mean, the link above is litterally has the calls audio that you can hear for yourself. It was leaked to the Washington Times. That's the only source you really need.

>>144193
Fake news.

>>144193
>National Review
LMAO stopped reading right there.

>>142921
>I agree
>< I disagree
>fage news
><fage nes

>>144195
>Sees links and evidence
>Leftist ideology kicks in
>Disregards information entirely

It's the lefts predictability I appreciate most

>>144225
Liar. Your sources are fake, Obama did nothing wrong.

i can't rule it out

>>144374
Your sources are fake, reeee!!!

>>144377
Yes, keep screeching at me about your inane conspiracy theories, that will definitely convince me.

>>142926
>He'll go down in history as the founder of a massive network of a unconstitutional spy state

You're assuming conservatives will maintain any semblance of power once the boomers are all dead and dying in ~10 years.

The center/left is going to control the next several decades after that

>>144390
DNC won't allow server investigation, claims Russian hacking, blocks attempts to question them, dismisses death/murder of staffer as a nonstory and confiscates his laptop, FBI and Police told to look the other way, shudder at the idea of formal investigation

"Nothing There" , "Conspiracy"

CIA (Democrat) and Comey (Democrat, brother works as Lawyer for Clinton Foundation) say no evidence, but "worth an investigation".

Look, they said it's worth the investigation so it is!! I don't need burden of proof, just the opinion of an authority figure!

>>144398
>cia is democrat
Bull fucking shit.

>>144398
Comey was a registered Republican before the job he has now. He now identifies as Independent. You're punching at shadows here.

>>144408
It's really less about that and more about Globalist/Establishment vs Nationalists.

But yeah, check out his brothers sweet gig

http://thedailycoin.org/2017/05/14/james-comeys-brother-works-law-firm-audited-clinton-foundations-taxes/

Steeped in the mire of corruption. I trust you'll look into it yourself and try to refute it, I recommend it in fact.

>>144405
That's not the point but whatever.

(Next time read what my point is and try to refute it using the entirety of my point)

>>144410
I already have shown that you were lying, that's all I set out to do. Here's proof though.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?412315-1/fbi-director-james-comey-testifies-hillary-clinton-email-probe&live

>>144414
Your proof is his word? Noone trusts Comey.

What do you think of his brothers connections with the Clinton foundation or the Seth Rich case?

Or that the DNC won't allow a formal investigation or their servers, even after claiming the Russians hacked it?

>>144417
>even after claiming the Russians hacked it?
Where are you getting that the democrats came up with the idea that the russians were behind the hack? That was the US intelligence community.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/russian-hacking-trump/510689/

>>144426
Ok then let's investigate the servers. And you still didn't comment on the other stuff but whatever

>>144440
>And you still didn't comment on the other stuff but whatever
I'm not engaging with your larger point because you keep lying about the smaller points to make it seem more credible. There's no reason to have a debate with you on points that you made up. It's better to just keep proving that you're arguing in bad faith until you go away.

>>144486
I didn't make them up. You can look them up yourself.

Also let's investigate the servers

>>144498
>I didn't make them up
You lied about comey being a democrat, and then you falsely claimed that the DNC was the one who claimed russian involvement, when that was a conclusion US intelligence agencies made. You're desperately trying to make it look like this scandal is just the democrats attacking Trump, and you're lying about any evidence that contradicts that.

>>144501
The DNC hired a company called Crowdstrike to sweep their servers. The company determined it was Russians. The company later noted that their methodology was flawed and they were only partially certain it might be Russians. In reality, they only determined the way it could be hacked. Washington Post reported they were "highly confident" it was Russians. This set off a Cascade of reports that the Russians were involved. Crowdstrike then touted they had determined the malware used against the DNC had also been used against Ukrainian GPS systems, which turned out to be false.

Crowdstrike later released a statement saying they really weren't sure who did it. Calls for an agency investigation of the servers were, however, never heard from either side until the Seth Rich story began to unveil odd hints that he may be the leaker involved.

The us intelligence community has never actually touched anything, theyve simply reiterated Crowdstrikes claim which is flimsy, if not clumsy

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-25/evidence-russia-hacked-dnc-collapsing

Please read it and let me know what you think

Also let's investigate the servers

>>144515
>Also let's investigate the servers
Alright fine, the intelligence agencies should investigate the servers directly.