Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation

>Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey that Mr. Flynn had done nothing wrong, according to the memo.

>Mr. Comey did not say anything to Mr. Trump about curtailing the investigation, only replying: “I agree he is a good guy.”

>In a statement, the White House denied the version of events in the memo.

>“While the president has repeatedly expressed his view that General Flynn is a decent man who served and protected our country, the president has never asked Mr. Comey or anyone else to end any investigation, including any investigation involving General Flynn,” the statement said. “The president has the utmost respect for our law enforcement agencies, and all investigations. This is not a truthful or accurate portrayal of the conversation between the president and Mr. Comey.”

>In testimony to the Senate last week, the acting F.B.I. director, Andrew G. McCabe, said, “There has been no effort to impede our investigation to date.”

>Mr. McCabe was referring to the broad investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. The investigation into Mr. Flynn is separate.

>A spokesman for the F.B.I. declined to comment.

>Mr. Comey created similar memos — including some that are classified — about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said. It is unclear whether Mr. Comey told the Justice Department about the conversation or his memos.

>Mr. Trump fired Mr. Comey last week. Trump administration officials have provided multiple, conflicting accounts of the reasoning behind Mr. Comey’s dismissal. Mr. Trump said in a television interview that one of the reasons was because he believed “this Russia thing” was a “made-up story.”

>The Feb. 14 meeting took place just a day after Mr. Flynn was forced out of his job after it was revealed he had lied to Vice President Mike Pence about the nature of phone conversations he had had with the Russian ambassador to the United States.
...

>Despite the conversation between Mr. Trump and Mr. Comey, the investigation of Mr. Flynn has proceeded. In Virginia, a federal grand jury has issued subpoenas in recent weeks for records related to Mr. Flynn. Part of the Flynn investigation is centered on his financial ties to Russia and Turkey.

>Mr. Comey had been in the Oval Office that day with other senior national security officials for a terrorism threat briefing. When the meeting ended, Mr. Trump told those present — including Mr. Pence and Attorney General Jeff Sessions — to leave the room except for Mr. Comey.

>Alone in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump began the discussion by condemning leaks to the news media, saying that Mr. Comey should consider putting reporters in prison for publishing classified information, according to one of Mr. Comey’s associates.

>Mr. Trump then turned the discussion to Mr. Flynn.

>After writing up a memo that outlined the meeting, Mr. Comey shared it with senior F.B.I. officials. Mr. Comey and his aides perceived Mr. Trump’s comments as an effort to influence the investigation, but they decided that they would try to keep the conversation secret — even from the F.B.I. agents working on the Russia investigation — so the details of the conversation would not affect the investigation.

>Mr. Comey was known among his closest advisers to document conversations that he believed would later be called into question, according to two former confidants, who said Mr. Comey was uncomfortable at times with his relationship with Mr. Trump.

>Mr. Comey’s recollection has been bolstered in the past by F.B.I. notes. In 2007, he told Congress about a now-famous showdown with senior White House officials over the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretapping program. The White House disputed Mr. Comey’s account, but the F.B.I. director at the time, Robert S. Mueller III, kept notes that backed up Mr. Comey’s story.
...

>The White House has repeatedly crossed lines that other administrations have been reluctant to cross when discussing politically charged criminal investigations. Mr. Trump has disparaged the continuing F.B.I. investigation as a hoax and called for an inquiry into his political rivals. His representatives have taken the unusual step of declaring no need for a special prosecutor to investigate the president’s associates.

>The Oval Office meeting occurred a little more than two weeks after Mr. Trump summoned Mr. Comey to the White House for a lengthy, one-on-one dinner at the residence. At that dinner, on Jan. 27, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Comey at least two times for a pledge of loyalty — which Mr. Comey declined, according to one of Mr. Comey’s associates.

>In a Twitter post on Friday, Mr. Trump said that “James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!”

>After the meeting, Mr. Comey’s associates did not believe there was any way to corroborate Mr. Trump’s statements. But Mr. Trump’s suggestion last week that he was keeping tapes has made them wonder whether there are tapes that back up Mr. Comey’s account.

>The Jan. 27 dinner came a day after White House officials learned that Mr. Flynn had been interviewed by F.B.I. agents about his phone calls with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak. On Jan. 26, Acting Attorney General Sally Q. Yates told the White House counsel about the interview, and said Mr. Flynn could be subject to blackmail by the Russians because they knew he had lied about the content of the calls.

It was a mistake to fire Comey, for numerous reasons, one important reason apparent now is to keep your enemies close so they don't reveal corrupt shit like this.

>An F.B.I. agent’s contemporaneous notes are widely held up in court as credible evidence of conversations.

Looks like an experienced intelligence operator with decades of political experience managed to outmaneover a 70 year old real estate mogul

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-fired-timeline.html
>Five Contradictions in the White House’s Story About Comey’s Firing
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/12/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-contradictions.html
>The Events That Led Up to Comey’s Firing,
and How the White House’s Story Changed

So does this mean Trump is finally going to be put under oath and asked some questions?

Because if it does I think he might be done - I legitimately dont think he is capable of being 100% truthful in any sustained conversation, the salesman spin is embedded too deep in him

>>140512
At very least he has tainted his presidency like Clinton did with his quasi-impeachment. There will be some sort of trial out of this on obstruction of justice for certain, even if it has to wait until he's out of office. If congressional republicans were smart they would do it themselves so they could just censure him like Clinton and not save it for the courts where they probably really would jail him.

It will be interesting to see if Manafort or Flynn flip now and turn states evidence possibly for partial immunity (since Flynn already tried for total immunity and was denied).

>>140497

Holy shit, what an absolute chucklefuck. It just keeps coming.

>>140518
Presidency has been tarnished since Nixon.

>>140522
Yes the presidency has been tarnished ever since the democrat/media faked enough outrage to get the president to resign.

That's what they're trying to do with this fake russia conspiracy hypothesis, but Trump won't back down for the GOP pr.

>>140497
I wish I were important enough I could accuse someone of something and require them to prove me wrong.

>>140523
>Nixon was innocent!
I feel like the actual Trump supporters have finally been shamed into silence. It's kinda nice now to know this whole thing is finally receding to just the shit posters.

I don't know how the presidency can practically survive this. Trump has taken three enormous broadsides in a week that all smell like impeachable offenses. Trump has alienated those in his party who are Russia hawks, supporters of Israel, and those who thought the Russian thing was finally over. The Democrats are screaming for blood and are increasingly likely to get it come election day since their mobilized base is facing Trump's demoralized base. And Comey hasn't even testified yet. And we haven't gotten to the bottom of what Flynn tried to hide. And we don't know what tapes there are, and at some point there will be a sopoena. Trump is fucked. Utterly fucked. Thank God this shit is finally ending

>>140512
You know if he's put under oath he'll just keep pleading the 5th. He already did that during his adultery trial.

>>140541
Even immediately after Nixon resigned he still had a 25% approval rating. 1/4th of the country thought he either did nothing wrong at all or didn't deserve what happened to him for doing it.

>>140547
Considering Hillary almost won the presidency from doing something almost identical, I'm surprised it wasn't higher.

>>140548
>Something almost identical
Nice try
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/4/13500018/clinton-email-scandal-bullshit

>>140547
I mean Trump is barely ten points above that

>>140551
>I mean Trump is barely ten points above that
To be fair there were only 3 liberal TV stations with 30 minute news broadcasts and newspapers back then. If there had been Breitbart and Fox News, Nixon's numbers probably would have been higher. Interestingly, Rupert Murdoch and a very young Karl Rove both worked in the Nixon white house for a time.

>>140551
> vox
lol

But I'll go ahead and debunk this whole article for you.

> Personal Email address
That wasn't the problem, plenty of other people used personal Email addresses. She had a whole private SERVER that she used. She had complete control over it and could get rid of anything at anytime.
The article talks about how this wasn't exactly illegal, it was against policy and she knew that and was warned. Obama new it was political suicide to admit that he knew about it so he lied that he didn't know, even though he had a known email chain going to her. Then they try to go with the Colin Powell did something similar he had a private email that he used along with his state address. Clinton used her private address only. None of her lawyers had the clearance to look at any of her emails and deem it was classified info but they did that anyway. Then they talk about Gowdy and Chaffetz shuffling through her personal emails as an excuse to delete shit without proper consultation. This is a shitty excuse, if she wouldn't have mixed her personal with state, she wouldn't of had this problem. When an official leaves, they have to give their archives to all the emails related to their state address, because she didn't have one her lawyers chose which ones were related.

Heres some facts about her server
- It had a maintance team that would watch it
- They reported multiple attacks
- They were told to clear the server once a month
- Combetta was told to find a way to remove headings and names from emails ( Completely blowing away the narrative he was doing this on his own) when he wasn't able to do that he just used bleachbit to wipe the entire server.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-19/paul-combetta-computer-specialist-who-deleted-hillary-clinton-emails-may-have-asked-reddit-for-tips

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/colin-powell-emails-clinton-trump-rumsfeld-228158


> Trump in 30's approval
liberals average at 8 and republicans average at 80

>>140547
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you can literally be Hitler and be guaranteed some significant percentage base support in the purely as a party affiliation consequence.

>>140512
I don't see why Trump wouldn't continue to lie, even under oath. He is not a religious man so he doesn't seem to fear God. Big mistake. An even bigger mistake in his case since he pretends to be religious.

Anyone else noticed how it's always "two sources with knowledge of the matter?" Seems like the same people with how close to the top these leaks are.

>>140547

At the end of Bush's presidency he got down to about 25% and 50% among Republicans, but it took years upon years of Dubya fuck ups before this happened. People laugh at the concept of Trump support dropping quickly, and I agree it wouldn't happen fast, but more so as the result from long term mental fatigue. I think 25% is the ultimate, impassable floor barring Trump actively raping someone on live television.

Yeah-timing is everything huh?

Wasn't' too long ago many Dems were calling for Comey to be fired. What a mess they find themselves in, as do all those morons who have regurgitated the whole absurd "devil Russia" line. Newsflash, Trump is trying to avoid nuclear war.

This is laughable in it's silliness.

For instances, in 1993 Hillary had Bill fire FBI director, William Sessions - the day before Vince Foster was found dead. How is that for timing!

>>140617
Context has changed. The reason why Comeys firing is outrageous (the Russia investigation) didnt exist 5 months ago when Dems were calling for Comey to be fired.

Is that so hard to understand? Context changes.

>>140617

For someone who supposedly has so much power and capability to hide a conspiracy stretching back 30 years, Clinton sure sucks where it matters, winning elections. Furthermore, Lewinski and the Email scandals (both the Private Server and the DNC leaks) show their ineptness when it comes to hiding/obfuscating this shit. I mean seriously, Hillary changed her story multiple times on the Email thing and then Bill made the monumentally stupid move of visiting Lynch when the email scandal blew up. They were also hopelessly out of touch and made so many stupid mistakes in their campaigning too. Hillary was so wrapped in her own egotistic bubble that she completely ignored the warnings of her ground level campaign workers.

Basically, Clinton isn't competent enough to have an ongoing conspiracy, especially with all the light being shined on them. Now a guy like Obama or Schumer on the other hand...

Honestly though, election was almost half a year ago, and the Clintons aren't really pertinent to what's happening right now.

>>140617
For someone who loves conspiracies, you certainly seem to not believe any about Trump. I wonder if you are... a little biased?

>>140617

Why is so difficult for people to understand the nuances of agreeing and disagreeing with different actions?

>>140624
Yeah, liberals aren't full of shit. They're "nuanced."

>>140727
Do you even know any liberals or do you only go by what you see on campus?

>>140617
>For instances, in 1993 Hillary had Bill fire FBI director, William Sessions - the day before Vince Foster was found dead. How is that for timing!
So what you're saying in essence is that when an executive fires the head of an investigative organization at around the same time as shady shit, it's potential evidence of wrongdoing on their part? Glad we agree Trump's guilty.

Fox news has finally confirmed the story after 2 days of evading and calling others 'fake news'

What now, Russians? Your narrative has fallen apart.

>>140554
>>140619
Damn, actual cohesive arguments that contradicted my views well enough to change my opinion. So her server wasn't inconsequential in judging her validity as a candidate, and she absolutely deserved to lose the election (but not to a clueless reality show star). Cletus, if you're lurking, that is how you should argue with liberals like me who're wrong

>>140523
Do you understand the gravity of the Watergate incident? A president had knowledge and approved of his staffers committing felonies in the name of winning against the DNC. Dam right people were pissed off.

liberals need to stop celebrating.
There are too many reasons this can end worse than it started for liberals.
1.) if Comey testifies that he believes his memo was evidence that Trump was guilty of obstruction of justice, then Comey too is guilty for not making this public sooner.
If he testifies he was building a case against Trump, that implies he doesn't think the memo is sufficient evidence of criminal wrongdoing on Trump's part.
2.) The special prosecutor might not even focus on the memo. He may well simply look for evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia in their hacking effort simply to exonerate Trump in the public eye by focusing on an issue more difficult to prove..
3.) impeachment takes forever.
4.), it'll be difficult to achieve in a republican congress.
5.) It still won't remove trump from office.
6.) a calculating government like that of Putin's Russia almost certainly isn't going to throw up their hands and call it quits. I'd bet they have plan B.
7.) Even if Trump is removed and Russia does nothing, Trump may yet successfully play the victim and leave an opening for an even more extreme right and ideological but more competent candidate next election cycle, who will appeal to those on the right that feel disenfranchised by Trump's removal from office.
8.) President Mike Pence and a Republican Congress isn't all that much fun in any case.

>>140798
>Do you understand the gravity of the Watergate incident?
Yes. Obama did the same thing, but nobody cares.

Watergate was bullshit and the GOP are cucks at best.

>>140739
I get my views from observing planet Earth. Any more questions?

>>140821
That might have something to do with why you think centrists are liberal.

>>140820
>Yes. Obama did the same thing, but nobody cares.
no he didn't you giant fagbags

"yeah well maybe trump has been a trainwreck but its a fact that obama and hillary did everything he did, like a million times but the media doesn't talk about it!"

obama was not guilty of obstruction of justice, and if he was the GOP would have given him the boot in half a second.

>>140539
So you want to be a beat cop?

>>140823
What's with liberals thinking they have this special understanding of words?

Liberals like to think they're centrists, but they're not.

Dumbasses just think shit like "neutrality" is the pinnacle of virtue. Obviously you people are retarded, it's no shock you don't know where beliefs came from.

>>140821

Through what filter?

>>140865

>liberals are centrists but they're not

The right has shifted WAY farther right over the past few decades. Nixon era republicanism are liberals of today.

>>140518
Flip on what? There is nothing to flip on and he didn't commit obstruction of justice. Asking is not forcing.

>>140825
people had no idea in 2016 that Obama was attempting to use the wherewithall of "counterintelligence" to have Trump watched.

It's so egregious that if the idea had been put forward, I think it would have been ridiculed. Watergate doesn't compare. But now, it's the most plausible reason we have for the media's Russia obsession. It doesn't matter how stupid the idea is that Trump feeds intel to Russia. It can serve as cover for what the previous administration tried to do.

>>140868
We're getting abstract here but I'll gladly elaborate.

Though I resent the liberal which I regard as an unwitting communist, it is imperative that we communicate.

I view the Earth through my filter of "That's Bullshit." But I am not merely an unbeliever. I am thoughtful and brave, and always second guess and double check.

I have zero problem being wrong, in fact I seek it. But it's ever so rare in 2017.

Have I seen the light or just gotten more stubborn?
Are liberals really communists in waiting? Or are they just assholes? I have more to ponder...

>>140869
*take sip of tea*
*read your post*
*spits out monocle*

This kind of thing man. It's just nuts.

Abortion. Gay marraige. Welfare. Fuck off.

>>140497
-Seth Rich is a staffer for DNC

-10.JUL.2016, found bruised, shot in the back near his home -still in possession of jewelry, phone, wallet, but police file as robbery

-22.JUL.2016, Wikileaks begins dumping captured John Podesta emails

-09.AUG.2016, Wikileaks offers $20 000 for information on SR murder

-10.AUG.2016, DNC crisis handler turned SR family handler, Brad Bauman, rejects 'conspiracy theories'

-03.JAN.2017, Julian Assange tells Sean Hannity Russia not source of emails

YESTERDAY 5/15/2017

-15.MAY.2017, SR family private eye, Rod Wheeler, claims evidence on SR laptop proves communications with Wikileaks -Wikileaks retweets the story

FAST FORWARD TO REALTIME

-16.MAY.2017, Brad Bauman claims evidence is nonexistant -anonymous federal investigator corroborates Rod Wheeler having witnesed fbi forensics report assange talks about seth rich @ 0.28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp7FkLBRpKg [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

assange denies russia ties @ 3.50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGlYf7UPTM4 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

wheeler comes forward on local fox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacShITWs-8 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

story picked up on national fox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NauP135Ozgo [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_rNdynFY4 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
SO WHAT?

People need to understand that the fuel behind the "meme war" and alternative media stories that helped defeat Clinton came about because of SETH RICH.

This is the man who turned the e-mails over to Assange, who published them on Wikileaks.

>>140878

This is the most blatant and undisguised Whataboutism i have ever seen, a technique straight out of the Kremlin handbook.

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Really makes me think....

>>140885
>a technique straight out of the Kremlin handbook.
Evel Knievel could not have made that leap.

He also would not have helped cover up a murder. (For Free)

>>140886
>Whataboutism was a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War. When criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[1][2] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[3] a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.

>At the end of the Cold War, the usage of the tactic began dying out but saw a resurgence in post-Soviet Russia in relation to a number of human rights violations and other criticisms expressed to the Russian government

>Although the use of whataboutism is not restricted to any particular race or belief system, according to The Economist, Russians often overuse the tactic.

Doesnt seem like much of a leap at all. Its very clearly exactly what you just did.

>>140889
>There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers. Well, you think our country is so innocent?

https://www.rt.com/usa/376357-trump-putin-interview-killer/

>LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): But the thing is, the world is built in such a fashion that if we do not take lessons from the past, we will hardly (ph) be able to achieve success in the present.

>And I recall certain situations when groups of countries, primarily Western countries, NATO countries, were sort of fixated on eliminating this or that dictator or totalitarian leader.

>When it was a question of ousting Slobodan Milosevic, NATO and furled a huge campaign. It was a very, of course, blatant violation of international law. They even bombed the place, which is certainly a war crime whichever way you interpret the Geneva convention. And they bombed the headquarters. And there were also attacks on trains, the Chinese embassy, bridges, and so on and so forth. This lasted some two months.

>And after all this, which was very near to weapons of dual purpose, then they ousted him.

>>140945
did you reply to the wrong post by accident?

>>140870
>Flip on what?
top lel. Still with this denial act?
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Flynn-Manafort-Key-Figures-In-Russia-Probe-422864384.html

>>140817
Comeys between a rock and a hard place. Tried to play both sides and keep his own interests protected.

He's going to hang by the rope he's thrown via this prosecution unless theyre in on some sort of grand conpiratorial witch hunt.

Which could mean civil war.

>>140591
Pretty much this.

A lot of people don't care about what their representative do as long as they have a (R) or a (D) next to their name, so you'll always get those tardos that think they're doing a good job.

I bet Trump could stomp on a puppy in the rose garden in front of the press and he could still eek out a 5% approval rate.

>>140953

When Nixon resigned he had a 25% approval rate and a 49% republican approval rate

part politics in america are STRONG

>The New York Times has not viewed a copy of the memo, which is unclassified, but one of Mr. Comey’s associates read parts of the memo to a Times reporter.

The state of journalism in 2017
Didn't get ahold of the memo
Didn't get ahold of Comey
Didn't get ahold of the entire text of the memo
But bring it to print anyways

>>140869
Haha, no. If anything, the right has moved towards the center as Democrats became traitorous communist. That's why movements like the tea party and alt-right arose, to pull the cuckservatives back to the right. As we say on /pol/, politics is warfare by other means, and all is fair in war.

>>140986
>As we say on /pol/
Is this a new meme or are you just the same guy who's been posting cringey shit like this?

>>140986
Cletus you know that isn't even close to being true. The right brags about how far right they've gotten since Bush, whose administration was far from being centrists themselves.

>>140993
It's just Cletus, out resident commie-hunter here on /news/. He's okay, he doesn't like /pol/ either.

On May 3rd comey testified under oath that none of this happened, That know one told him or suggested to stop the investigation. Watch the testimony for yourself. These are probably fictional memos. Whats being done to him is wrong. If they can delegitimateize his presidency with Russia histera then why couldn't they do the same thing to all republicans who were elected that night by saying the Russians got them elected? Its not like they have integrity or that anything is beneath them. firing Comey wasn't obstruction either. This russia thingy is fake and firing comey was a popular decision.

>>140986
>Democrats became traitorous communist
Its true and trump needs to address it.

That's why california voted to allow communists in government.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/09/527586682/california-assembly-votes-to-allow-communists-to-hold-state-jobs

Yet I'm supposed to be worried about Nazis LOL

>>141067
Oтличный шиллинг, тoвapищ. Глyпыe aмepикaнcкиe cвиньи нaвepнякa кyпят этoт cпeйл!

I just love how buttflustered the Trumpites are these days.

>>141078
I think the left is the ones butt flustered they are obsessed with Trump and will believe any conspiracy theory while ignoring well documted truths.

>>140948
Yeah the probe is about money now. All the leaks and facts are about payments they didn't disclose. Many have said there was no collusion or zero proof of any. My prediction is if anything happens or is found out that it will involve money and payments that were no reported when they should have been. If your hoping for some smoking gun in treaosn you're living in a fantasy land.

>>140885
Only Russia conspiracy theorist keft a Twitter follows of Louise Mensch.

>>140869
Wrong, it's actually the other way around. Bill Clinton of 1992 would be a republican today.

>>140865
>>140869
What's with both you cunts arguing about the political spectrum like it really matters? Where you view yourself and others on the spectrum is relative. So, shut the fuck up, and focus on the topic at hand

>>140871
What evidence do you even have that Obama had Trump wiretapped, or watched?

>>141080
Comey said the investigation was estimated to take as long as another 8-10 months in his testimony before the Senate Intel Committee... and that's just the FBI part of the investigation.

>>141078
What are we flustered about?

Democrats are launching an assault on the president and America unlike we've ever seen.

you people arr willing to cause war soley to pretend that Donald trump didn't win the election.

im not flustered, but it is deeply sad. Gloabalists are traitors to our nation.

>>141084
>stop picking on liberals
>you can't know anything anyway!

Fuggin leftists. Your mind is SHIT.

>>141073
>liberals are traitorous communists
Healthcare is a right, poor people shouldn't starve, secondary education should be free for those that earn it, and corporations should be heavily regulated. This is common sense, not Marxism. Trump is a cunt. Calling him a cunt does not make me a traitor, cunt

>>141091
It's not the way this country was designed to be operated.

>>141091
>Healthcare is a right
You don't even know what a right is

This is the basis of American values! Im so sorry for what the system has done to you.

Listen, a right is something you're born with. Freedom of speech, the right to defend yourself.

Is healthcare something that can be guaranteed. That's why European rights (like vacations) are not actual rights, but privilleges. If they go to war, that "tight" vanishes.

You can argue for privilleges if that's what you want. But they aren't rights. You just sound like a traitor who doesn't get America honestly.

Why don't you move to Europe? That is somethibg you can do fyi.

>>141091
>should should should should

You don't get to steal hard working people's belongibgs because you think the world "should" bend to your will. You're a selfish lazy asshole.

>>141086
People are still under the impression that this is all about Trump. This a far reaching investigation in to all aspects of the election and the DNC hacks of course they are looking Trump. It he's not the main target. I would not surprised if the trump part is already been concluded. But either way even if the Russians did hack the DNC I doubt anyone In the trump campaign directly involved this least of all! Trump. For Trump this whole campaign is been an extension of his branding, he has had a very shallow involvement in this from the start. Impeachment would only be viable if he directly colluded with Russia and there is records of that. Trump would be too stupid to even understand how to colluded.

>>141087
>what are we flustered about?
That we're being mean to your man crush
>Democrats are launching an assault on the president and America like we've never seen
Obama got plenty of shit from people who thought he was a foreign-born Muslim that was gonna change our national language to Spanish. Obviously, none of that's true. Trump deserves what he gets because the media doesn't need to lie, or paint him like a dipshit. He does that for them
>you people are willing to cause war solely to pretend he didn't win the election
I know he won. Most leftists have accepted it. Maybe not the cents rioting in Berkeley making us look bad, but most of us. We don't want to cause a war. We're just sick of the bullshit
>globalists are traitors to our nation
There's that fucking buzzword again. This discussion isn't even about immigration, or admission of refugees, but you had to throw in some bullshit about how leftists want to destroy the white race and white culture. None of that is true. So, fuck off and watch some more infowars you dumb cunt

>>140497
I doubt that Trump even realized that what he was asking for wasn't okay.
He has yet to make any decision that leads me to believe that he's playing 4D chess, or could even understand 2D chess.

>>141092
You're right. The founding fathers probably envisioned a country where slavery is still legal, landowners are the only ones with the right to vote, and people work for pennies on the dollar. The founding fathers laid a great foundation, but times are changing. Our country should too
>>141096
>healthcare is not a right
If you believe in the right to life from womb to tomb, you ought to believe in the right to healthcare as well. Someone shouldn't die because they can't afford a life saving surgery. Parents shouldn't go bankrupt paying for treatment for thei4 child in the event they're born with a preexisting condition. It's simple common sense
>>141097
>you don't get to steal hard working people's money because you want the world to bend to your will
We could probably pay for the programs I talked about without an increase in taxes if we cut some fat from our defense budget
>you're a selfish, lazy ass hole
How am I selfish? I'd be paying in to the system too. Also, I work long hours six days a week. Don't act like I'm a lazy slob because I'm not an apathetic cunt

>>141107
>If you believe in the right to life from womb to tomb, you ought to believe in the right to healthcare as well.
I don't, and I believe that their should be certain fail states built into the system (in this case, disease and death) to encourage people to work harder or clean up the dregs who don't. Capitalism requires a fail state, and a win state to succeed. These incentives are why its the best, most efficient form of economics and governance in history.

>>141109
People don't always become poor because they didn't work hard enough. Some are born into poverty, or shit happens and they end up there somehow

>>141109

Let's ignore the implications in human suffering; just valuing hard work is often counterproductive. An optimally productive economy would have built in controls to correct for confounding variables that prevent people with the right skill set finding the jobs where they can make the greatest impact, like access to preventative healthcare.

In many cases, people will avoid starting a business or switching jobs to where their skills might be more suited because of nonsense confounding variables like access to healthcare.

If I have a great idea for a new business or I found a company I'm perfectly suited to serve in, why should it matter what health conditions I have? When it comes to absolute necessities, stuff we need to survive, people are going to be encouraged to pursue the path of lowest risk in life rather than the path of creativity or innovation or risk taking; the stuff that powers a knowledge economy.

>>141113

The vast majority of people don't deserve most of the circumstances they find themselves in. Being optimistic and working hard are important, but your life would be vastly different if you were born to a poor family in Somalia.

Capitalism is useful because it provides a utilitarian benefit. It gets talent, risk-taking, creativity, and productivity to where greatest demand exists. Beyond that, it's useless. Talking about capitalism like it is some "ethical" good, that everyone gets what they deserve, is total nonsense.

We want an economic system that encourages leveraging the traits of the population that are most valuable for developing society. Intelligence. Hard work. Creativity. Risk taking. Various talents. &c.
Not being poor or not being sick are not traits that should bring and reward or punishment.
We need a foundation of capitalism because we can't effectively micromanage all that. But we need a framework of social engineering superimposed on capitalism that provides us the most competent human capital for the skills that a modern economy demands most.

>>141107
>me: i believe human fetuses are basically babies and shouldn't be killed

>you: I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR MY HEALTHCARE, COLLEGE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE SHOULD I DECIDE NOT TO WORK

move to Europe you disgusting animal.

>>141113
>poor people actually work super hard and never make bad decisions with their money!
>fuck rich people :( they got money by lick!

God you are just so unethical

>>141130
>Not being poor or not being sick are not traits that should bring and reward or punishment.
>WAH WAH life isn't fair >:[[[[[[[
>getting broken bones shouldn't cause pain! Fuck god!!!
>we need to take all the money from white people!!

>>141131
You personally aren't paying anything. Society is pooling resources to distribute it to where it can make the greatest impact, without reducing profit incentive too much.

If you don't like it, seceded or go to Somalia for an every man for himself economy.

>SHOULD I DECIDE NOT TO WORK

CITIZENS NEED AN EDUCATION AND A FUNCTIONING BODY TO FIND GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT

>>141135
>You personally aren't paying anything

>you didn't build that

Go fuck yourself Obama

>>141134
>we need to take all the money from white people!!
So your contention to building a more robust economy is that some minorities might disproportionately benefit from social engineering in the short run?
The implication is that if you had an all white society, social programs would be acceptable; less that you're against social engineering, more that you don't want to be a part of the same society as those minorities.

>>141136
such a logical rebuttal

>>141137
>You're a racist!!!!!!


Hahahahhaahahahaha im black you gigantic cuck

Fuck your communism tou god damned traitor


LITERALLY YOU CAN DIE ITS OK

>>141139
Whether or not you're racist, unless your end game is to have spite-driven policy, I don't see how your strategy makes sense.
If black people do worse economically, they don't magically disappear from society.
In fact, it's a well documented phenomena that birthrate is negatively correlated with socioeconomic status.

>>141140
>I don't see how your strategy makes sense.
I haven't said anything about "my strategy" what the fuck are you even talking about?

Pretend ass argument

That's a good little commie. Just give the illusion there is substsnce behind your tyrannical ideology.

You want to take my shit because you're evil. Evil hates good hard working folk.

EUROPE. GO THERE.

>>141133
I work very hard, but only make around 24k. Should I break a bone, the medical bills would keep me from paying for rent. Fuck that. Shit happens that's out of your control sometimes, but it shouldn't fuck your life up

>>141142
Sorry. just I saw the part where you say you're black.
In that case, you have no good excuse. You're just a moron or selfish to the point where you don't care about the sort of society your children will inherit.

>>141144
Buy health insurance you fucking moron

You're lying anyway

>>141142
Wouldn't evil people advocate condemning people to death if they're too poor to afford treatment?

>>141145
And now the marxist communism reveals his inherent racism

Oh lawd im offended

Hillary 4 Prison, George Soros 4 Prison, Barrack Hussein Osama 4 Prison. Crooked Hillary, Lock her up! SOB!

>>140518
You honestly think that most Republicans would have a problem if was sent to jail? They have Pence as their backup, who is 1000x more expierenced and more composed.

Many Republicans think he is damaging their party, which he arguably is. The fact that Trump is the first Republican President since Dubya is not helping their party.

>>141148
No. Evil comes in many forms.

Evil people want to take from others. The methodand justification changes with the times.

>>141147
>Average premiums and deductibles nationwide unsubsidized shoppers: Premiums for individual coverage averaged $321 per month while premiums for family plans averaged $833 per month. The average annual deductible for individual plans was $4,358 and the average deductible for family plans was $7,983."

Great. So, if I had individual coverage, I'd have 20k left over if I had to pay for my own insurance. How do I pay for rent in this situation?
>get an education and find a better job
Difficult to do if I wanna pay for rent or health insurance

>>141148
Property is the most sacred right. Theft of property is the ultimate sin. Murder is just theft of life after all. Anything that comes between a man and his property, or seeks to deprive said man of it is evil.

>>141154
You seek to take the lives of the poor by preventing them from having health coverage. Isn't that even more evil?

>>141154
rights aren't inherent, society decides what constitutes a right. Some rights we treat as absolute or almost absolute, like right to life, speech, free press, &c., because we don't want to set a precedent where something so critical to a functioning society is compromised for trivial reasons. And because we can appreciate that nobody wants to live in a world where their right to life is potentially under significant threat from the government.
For right to property, just like right to marriage or right to vote, there's a little more wiggle room. We can say 50% of your paycheck is your property. We can change that as per society's needs.

>>141153
Sounds like that communist healthcare isn't working out hahahaha

Capitalism actually works, remember?

>>141155
NAP. I do not have an obligation to help or hinder those in distress.

>Applying our theory to parents and children, this means that a parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child, i.e., to allow it to die.2 The law, therefore, may not properly compel the parent to feed a child or to keep it alive.3 (Again, whether or not a parent has a moral rather than a legally enforceable obligation to keep his child alive is a completely separate question.) This rule allows us to solve such vexing questions as: should a parent have the right to allow a deformed baby to die (e.g., by not feeding it)?4 The answer is of course yes, following a fortiori from the larger right to allow any baby, whether deformed or not, to die. (Though, as we shall see below, in a libertarian society the existence of a free baby market will bring such "neglect" down to a minimum.)

https://mises.org/library/children-and-rights

>>140497
>>“I hope you can let this go,” the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.

On May 3rd, FBI director James Comey, under oath, testified that he had not experienced any attempts to stop the FBI from doing any investigation. This week an unknown, unidentified person called a New York Times reporter and read to him a memo that supposedly Comey had written after a meeting with Trump back on Valentine’s Day where Trump hoped that the Flynn matter would not proceed further, three weeks after the FBI had cleared Flynn.

>>141158
It takes a village.

>>141142
>thinks fairly basic social safety net is communist
>Thinks Europe is communist
>Making rich people and corporations (not even myself) pay more a bit more tax is literally Tyranny.

Is it possible to be more of a Burger?

>>141159
You're pretending like other outlets including Fox haven't confirmed the existence of the memo yet. It isn't just the NYT anymore.

>>141156
>rights aren't inherent
Yes they are you dumbass European communist

Only American rights are rights. Other countriew call privileges granted by the government "rights"

>>141163
You're a fucking retard

>>141162
move to Europe if you like it so much.
Stay there.

>>141166
And you're a bootlicking cocksucker.

>>141170
You're the one acting for the establishment you cuck.

Trusting some unknown memo that nobody saw over COMEY'S OWN WORDS UNDER OATH.

you're a tool.

I am literally laughing at how booty blasted the the Trump internet defence patrol is this week, they can't even hold a civil debate anymore, it's all "Kill the liberals" now and it really shows whose lower in the evolutionary ladder. Guess they have more neanderthal DNA them.

>>141158

>This is what libertarians actually believe

Explain negative externalities mr steppy snake

>>141163
Comey quote was his own words under oath.
IDGAF what any news outlet says.

>>141163
On May 3rd, FBI director James Comey, under oath, testified that he had not experienced any attempts to stop the FBI from doing any investigation.

>>141177
>may 3rd

>>141167
Great argument. Wow

>>141176
>>141177
It's going to be fun watching you guys spin your way out of Comey's next hearing now that he's not a part of the government anymore. There is a memo. It's been proven. Get over it.

>>141158
Fortunately, we live in a civilized society. People have to take care of their children, and society has to take care of its people

>>141182
>There is a memo. It's been proven
Not yet. Just hearsay. Comey testifying under oath. On record.
Only "spinning" is by your lib retards.

>>141185
>hearsay
Just wait until Erik Prince gets a subpeona
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/17/notorious-mercenary-erik-prince-is-advising-trump-from-the-shadows/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html

>>141182
Even if there is a memo, were you born yesterday?
Do you not know this is how things work with all presidents, ceo's, and powerful men in the world? Sheesh, kiddo, grow up.

>>141186
Jeff Bezos
LOL

>>141188
It's like you think Jeff Bezos made Eric Prince go to the Seychelles

>>141187
Do you think Kissenger told Nixon that too?

>>141192
If this memo existed 2 months ago, why wait until now?
>crickets.

>>141196
Because it was part of the overall investigation that has barely gotten started. Plus, Comey requested more funds for an investigation Trump asked him to drop and he got fired for it, because Trump says he decided he had to go. That's obstruction of justice.

>>141199
>On May 3rd, FBI director James Comey, under oath, testified that he had not experienced any attempts to stop the FBI from doing any investigation.

Why are you so confused about this? If there is a "memo" then comey is guilty of perjury and proven to be a liar. Which doesn't hurt trump.

>>141200
Perhaps whatever source you got that quote from lied to you.

>>141201
>Perhaps whatever source you got that quote from lied to you.
He testified before congress. You think they made it up? It's a congressional record. Geezus you're dense.

>>141202
I watched all of James Comey's testimony on CSPAN and I don't remember him saying that. Source or GTFO.

>>141203
>I watched all of James Comey's testimony on CSPAN

Sure you did. Look it up yourself. I ain't your nigger.

>>141204
Because it didn't happen. Welcome to /news/.

>>141204
You have the burden of proof faggot, if you don't have a source to back up your claims then your argument isn't worth anything.

>>141207
HIRONO: Yes. And so speaking of the independence of not just the judiciary but I’d like you to clarify the FBI’s independence from the DOJ apparatus. Can the FBI conduct an investigation independent from the department of Justice. Or does the FBI have to disclose all it’s investigations to the DOJ? And does it have to get the Attorney General’s consent?

COMEY: Well we work with the Department of Justice, whether that’s main justice or U.S. attorney’s offices on all of our investigations.

And so we work with them and so in a legal sense we’re not independent of the department of justice. We are spiritually, culturally pretty independent group and that’s the way you would want tit. But yes, we work with the Department of Justice on all of our investigations.

HIRONO: So if the Attorney General or senior officials at the Department of Justice opposes a specific investigation, can they halt that FBI investigation?

COMEY: In theory yes.

HIRONO: Has it happened?

COMEY: Not in my experience. Because it would be a big deal to tell the FBI to stop doing something that — without an appropriate purpose. I mean where oftentimes they give us opinions that we don’t see a case there and so you ought to stop investing resources in it. But I’m talking about a situation where we were told to stop something for a political reason, that would be a very big deal. It’s not happened in my experience.

>>141209
>"where we were told to stop something"
>conflating that with Comey's dinner
I see what's wrong here. Whatever source you lifted the quote from, which wasn't the OP story BTW, tried to confuse the issue by assuming the incidents Comey tesfied about in public hearings were the total of all the incidents that happened or that were relevant to the case, which he also said he wouldn't ever discuss openly. I'd still like to know what source that is. If I had to guess off the top of my head I'd say TheHill.com, slightly right wing but spinny.

>>141209
In this instance, comey is answering a question specifically about the Department of Justice.

>>141204
>I ain't your nigger
if you make any kind of claim, you are responsible for posting evidence

>>141153
Hey

>>141209

> and that’s the way you would want tit

I love tit.

>>141297
What's up?

STOP COMPARING TRUMP SHIT AND HILARY SHIT YOU FUCKING RETARDS. They're both fucking criminals and shady as fuck.

>>141347
Remember when you said we need communism because healthcare was too expensive? Then i reminded you that healthcare got more expensive because of communist obamacare?

I'm hoping you reflected on your views and are now a patriotic American. Cool.

>>141371
My criminal is better then yours.

>>141380
Actually, for a good number of people, healthcare got cheaper with the ACA, and many people who had no coverage were provided coverage under the ACA
Just because you believe something, doesn't make it true

>>141371
Hillary wasn't given the chance to do retarded shit like this as madam president.

>>141385
I thought liberals were all about the greater good.

Now you don't give a fuck about the general state of healthcare. "look at the quadriplegic triple cancer patient (who is already on communist healthcare) now they get different communist healthcare!"

You people just want a bigger government for whatever reason.

>>141394
Forgot to mention that the quadriplegic is actually trans-quadripalegic.

She's also trans-cat and will be transitioning (in prison btw) and she has gotten 12 abortions and had 5 kids all paid by the state. They're all on welfare obviously.

>>141394
>I thought liberals were all about the greater good.
Yeah.
That's why we want you to die.

>>141385

That's simply false. The only thing ACA ensured was that if you didn't have insurance you were penalized. So fucking eat a bag of dicks you stupid fuck.

>>141398
Yes I know. How can such depravity be born of this world (America)?

Truly, you are foreign to me. Whatever made you this way, I resent it.

>>141394
You're thinking of Utilitarianism.
(For the greater good!)

Liberal theory means a free market and free society (i.e. the route word being Liberty). And usually take progressive ideas into fixing societal problems, this often comes with a foundation of meeting out resources in the most democratic process politically.

Modern day liberal (small L) comes from the association of Democratic theory with the democratic party. Something relatively new in history (i.e. less than 100 years).

However, for a majority of American history the two party system had well, two major parties with what they called Liberal, Moderate, and Conservative wings in each party. So you could have basically a cross reference of 6 different ideologies.

The liberal wing of the Republican party for example was way more progressive than modern day democrats. And the conservative wing is pretty much on par with modernity of Republicans as a whole.

The rise of 3rd party candidates, started because the narrowing of the band available in a straight two party system without wings. For example Libertarians, are in essence liberals in market and social sense, but do not believe in a democratic process for resource sharing. Instead taking a more republic centric "local rule" as the optimal way to distribute political resources.

Hope that helps.

>>141380
>These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).
-Time Magazine

Healthcare costs could be much higher. They're definitely too high, but they could be higher if we'd left it to the free market. What we really need is single payer so that everyone pays into the system, and spending doesn't go up too much. Really, we could keep spending at the level it's at now (or lower) if we cut a little bit from the defense budget

>>141400
That's simply false. The ACA has, for the first time, given our country a pathway to universal healthcare coverage. And healthcare coverage that's guaranteed to protect people in case of catastrophic outcomes.

Foundational reforms to something like healthcare are incredibly difficult to manage in a nation of 350M+, someone is bound to do a little better and some a little worse, but on the whole we need reforms that improve our society overall if our country is going to stay competitive.

Even so, under the ACA, premiums have fallen and we've fully covered additional tens of millions of Americans.

Premiums went up in some locations where an insurance company had a monopoly and there was supposed to be regulation that managed which regions an insurance company could choose to lock out of coverage. But it was Republicans that prevented that. And I'm not saying Obama was without fault; when he had a democratic legislature, he should have given us full single-payer IMO. But the law as is, is all around better than what we had, in terms of premiums, coverage, and protecting our economic interests by guaranteeing access of our human capital to preventative care rather than just emergency care.

In any case, every American has guaranteed access to emergency rooms regardless of ability to pay, so a tax for those who opt not to purchase health insurance is sensible, since paying out of pocket for emergency care is prohibitively expensive for most Americans, and almost everyone will opt to go to an emergency room in case of emergency.

We should perfect the laws as they exist, not scrap all our nation's progress and start from scratch, at the cost of millions of livelihoods, just so that Republicans in Congress can win some political points with their donors and a subset of their constituencies.

Here’s the story…

During Obama’s admin Hillary’s overseas building cheddar for election (Doing globalist shit for Soros in return for poli contribs), selling clam chowder for foundation (new handouts and bribes for her presidency) and paying back buy-offs and other shady shit overseas for CIA (Arab Spring). Bill’s chillin like a villian fucking little girls with Podesta.

Flynn’s over there same time running anti-dem shit for republicans (own psyop co) and steps in giant Hillary sized shit pie in the middle of the fucking desert and discovers Gulen cash to Clinton Foundation in his anti-Gulen campaign, Bengazi and other bullshit. Sells it to Trump who backs him into Whitehouse Admin. Flynn knows he’s fucked but has more shit up his sleeve.

Flynn/Trump Shit (Hillary Tar and Feather) backfires as Comey won’t investigate Hillary because he’s already been bought and paid for (Whitewater Commission). Comey tips his hand to Dems and they build a giant FU campaign to shut Trump up and get rid of Flynn so Hillary’s personal fort knox of deposit and withdrawal for dems isn’t bleached.

Hillary’s still Shady. Trumps still IDK at this point and Flynn is about to do some crazy shit. Maybe all stops come out and the leaks get so ugly they all end up in prison - but nothing will happen, everyone comes back down to Washing level of sanity and we continue sucking poli dicks.

It’s coming. Hold onto your horses.

>>141445
i think you mean "hold onto your hats"

>>141446
Not who you're talking to but I feel it's more like "hold onto your hair."

>>141449
that's donald's job.

thread derailed

>>140993
It's what /pol/ actually believes.

The idea that all politics is identity politics between enemies was first explored by German political theorist Carl Schmitt. Schmitt states that politics is a constant struggle between allies and enemies, a zero-sum game that only ends when one side is destroyed with maximum brutality and hate. There is no compromise or rational actors, just fighting and struggle, and it is more important to hurt the enemy then any real concrete political victory. To inflict pain was the greatest victory, and anything goes in your struggle.

It's no surprise that Schmitt was an influential Nazi, and smoothed over things like Hitler's use of extrajudicial punishments, kangaroo courts, purges, destruction of information, torture, and war crimes. He was called the "crown jurist of the Third Reich" for a reason. It's also no surprise that an edgy, anti-liberal intellectual would be someone /pol/ would parrot.