Trump has grand plan for mission to Mars but Nasa advises: cool

>“With Nasa’s current budget it would be challenging to go to Mars without a massive increase,” Phil Larson, a former senior adviser for space and innovation to Barack Obama, told the Guardian. Larson said that Nasa is far more prepared to go to Mars today than it was to go to the moon in the 1960s, but stressed: “The devil’s in the detail and the devil’s in the funding.”

>In the bill last month, Trump and Congress kept most of the agency’s funds intact, at about $19bn, but cut $200m for climate science, education programs and an asteroid mission that Nasa had hoped would be a stepping stone to Mars. Although 100 days into his presidency, Trump has not yet named anyone as Nasa’s administrator. Nasa has estimated that the total cost of missions to Mars would be hundreds of billions of dollars.

>Larson wrote in an op-ed last month that at the rate set by Trump’s budget request, sending “humans to Mars in less than a decade is not just impossible, it’s laughable”.

>Depending on launch timing, it takes seven to nine months simply to reach Mars from Earth – the Apollo missions to the moon took on average three days – and Nasa has to overhaul its rockets and spacecraft for such a long mission.

>The agency is currently building the most powerful rocket the agency has ever designed, called the Space Launch System (SLS). On Thursday, the agency pushed back its planned 2018 test flight to 2019, after a report by the Government Accountability Office cast doubt on the rocket system’s readiness to fly.

>The private spaceflight company SpaceX is also developing a new rocket, the Falcon Heavy, and has announced an ambitious plan to use it to take two private citizens around the moon in 2018. That rocket also remains untested in flight.
...

>SpaceX’s CEO Musk wants to reach Mars by 2024, but has acknowledged that his private company would probably need help and luck for that “optimistic” timeline. Any organization, public or private, needs to solve the challenges of fueling, radiation bombardment, and, if it wants to land, how to do so safely and with the ability to take off again from the surface of Mars. The planet’s atmosphere is about 100 times thinner than Earth’s, making descent faster and more perilous than when astronauts return home.

>Deep space is full of hazards to life, and Nasa has said that a crewed mission to Mars and back could take as long as three years. The agency plans to send a crewed mission into deep space in the 2020s as a “readiness” gauge – a test of whether it has technology for a long-term space habitat, protected against effects of radiation and microgravity, which over time weakens bones, muscles and eyesight. Lockheed Martin, Nasa’s partner for the project, is working toward a “main base camp” spacecraft for 2028.

>Astronauts on a Mars mission will also face psychological tests of extreme isolation and close quarters whose only comparisons might be the journeys of 16th-century mariners, 19th-century whalers and the Arctic explorers in centuries past. Space agencies have had several teams do mock missions for as long as 500 days, and Nasa researchers have stressed that psychological tests and prep will be key for any crew.
...

>Though the International Space Station has had humans on board for over a decade, it receives regular supplies and only a handful of people have logged more than 340 continuous days in space (Whitson holds the US record). A mission to Mars requires food, oxygen, water and fuel for as much as three times as long. Astronauts who land on the surface would not only need those resources, they would have to contend with uncertain terrain, high winds and even dust that could be toxic. And while the moon is sterile, Nasa also does not want to contaminate a planet where liquid water still flows – nor have Mars contaminate the astronauts.

>“We’re absolutely very ready to go to Mars, all of us would be very happy to go,” Whitson told Trump on Monday. She did not say when.

>>135942
>It was not clear whether the president meant the remark as a quip or something more serious

This presidency in a nutshell

>>135942
>Trump replied: “Well, we want to try and do it during my first term or, at worst, during my second term, so we’ll have to speed that up a little bit, OK?”
>>It was not clear whether the president meant the remark as a quip or something more serious
>LaughingEvans.jpg

>>135942
So it's gonna go down to who gets there first can claim it ? This is gonna cause a lot of problems.

This is really nice, honestly, but he just sort of decrees it.
Is there any indication he has the support of congress?
This is something they should really be talking about since a mars mission is something they'll need to decide funding for, and at this stage the cost of that would definitely be non-trivial
I'll be the first to support him on this, even if we don't make it there within 8 years, but I'd like to see him try and produce concrete momentum among legislators to begin funding the next steps toward a manned mars mission.

>>135942
Reminds me of Kennedy's speech about putting a man on the moon by the end of the decade. People thought he was crazy, but we sure as hell did it. Would love to see a renewed push into space just for the technological advancements it would promote.

>>136364
>Reminds me of Kennedy's speech about putting a man on the moon by the end of the decade.

We could have gone to Mars in the 1970s and would have multiple colonies there today, had we not derailed our space program to pay for LBJ's cradle-to-grave "Great Society" welfare system.

>>136391
>had we not derailed our space program to pay for LBJ's cradle-to-grave "Great Society" welfare system.
Bullshit, blame Nixon. LBJ wanted 8-12 secret Manned Orbital Laboratories spying on the USSR and would have started the LandSat AND Reagan's 'Star Wars' program 15 years early if Nixon's administration wouldn't have cut funding in '69.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Orbiting_Laboratory

>>136397
>if Nixon's administration wouldn't have cut funding in '69.

Nixon had to cut funding for NASA, as he was required _by law_ to pay for LBJ's massive welfare state.

>>136403
>_by law_
Negative, this was a black project only canceled for being democrat in origin. Or as the wiki page puts it:
>President Richard Nixon and National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger agreed to the Bureau of the Budget's proposal to cancel MOL,[14] as it was determined the capabilities of unmanned spy satellites met or exceeded the capabilities of manned MOL missions.

>>136406

Spy satellites didn't have shit to do with it, there simply wasn't the money to go Mars _and_ pay for a massively expanded welfare system.

>>136408
They were more with spy satellites, they were space stations, the beginning point to eventually going to mars.

>>136408
Yet, you can pay for multi-decade foreign wars just fine. They eclipse the budget for Mars expeditions many times over.

>>136360
This is something I've always wondered how unclaimed land would go in the modern era. Obviously, anyone claiming anything in this day in age is going to be met with resistance by every other interested party, but if say, the US, did actually stake a claim on Mars and establish colonies there long before any other nation came along, what would actually go down? I imagine the majority of other nations would pressure for it to be partitioned up so they can own a chunk of land they aren't able to get to yet sort of like Antarctica, but I could be wrong.

>>136483
I feel it should go to who establishes a settlement there first with a reasonable radius around said settlement for work. One nation will be unable to set up enough colonize to take the planet, but can strategically place themselves on choice regions. This would provide sufficient incentive to be an early pioneer while still ensuring that there will be something left for those who come later.

>>135942
>Russian Soyuz-FG (..or is that s Soyuz-2?) in picture
>NASA watermark

>>136483
Every country signed a treaty stating no state or government can claim anything in space.
So if USA said "this part of the moon/Mars belongs to us", every country would consider it does not. A bit like Sealand, only Sealanders recognise it as an independent country, other countries consider it an English madman on an English demilitarised platform in English waters.

>>136620
It's not a Soyuz, it's an Orion.

>>136700
lel.. nice troll post, sweetheart.

https://img-new.cgtrader.com/items/28427/b20b5aa33a/large/soyuz-fg-rocket-3d-model-3ds-lwo-lw-lws.jpg

>>135942
so we’ll have to speed that up a little bit, OK?
I love this man. I really hope this happens

>>136952
last one on the list, buddy
http://www.wowtoyz.com/images/product_images/Rocket%20Poster/RocketsPostersmall.jpg

*chinese laughter*

>>136995
Yep, thanks for helping confirm op's pic is a Soyuz variant launcher.

>>136363
>Is there any indication he has the support of congress?
would have any support from the scientist and engineers that would build them?
If I were them I wouldn't exactly be enthusiastic about doing something for an administration that is pushing anti science sentiments, I'd probably just do enough not to get fired and nothing more.

It will never happen.
The economy is shit, the financial system may collapse at any moment, we're hitting limits when it comes to extracting natural resources, tensions between nations are on the rise and somehow government X, Y or Z is going to send men to Mars, let alone colonize it? Not to mention we have yet to know what the full consequences of living so far away from the earth might be on human beings.

>>136391
You're delusional.

>>137263 #
Well the economy is doing well. We have low unemployment and our GDP growing at a steady clip.
The problem isn't a lack of growth in general but lack in working-class's real wage growth. And this administration + congress has consistently decided that the government is doing too much for the working class at the expense of the wealthy, and that if they see growth, it has to be via trickle down theory. So that's not likely to change.

NASA is the lonely middle-aged man that is permanently broken by the woman who left him long ago.
Most of the people don't care about a space program when they are in need of medical attention that they can't afford.

>>137317

The 1960s were a great time for the US space program, despite the war in Vietnam and the race riots and protests.

The people don't care about space missions because it became routine science instead of grand political gestures. All it would take for the American public to get excited about space again is for the President to make it a political priority.

Hell, I would actually vote for Trump to be reelected if he diverted the nation away from culture wars with a ridiculous desire to put a flag on Mars.

>>137320
>diverted the nation away from culture wars
Start by making it possible for the commoner to achieve basic needs.

>>137324

He's trying to do that by expelling non-citizens who are a burden on our social welfare system.

Personally I think he's taking the wrong approach, though. Yes, build the wall. But instead of deporting illegal immigrants, when they find them they should deport a family of chronic welfare dependents instead on a 1:1 basis. The problem eventually solves itself.

>>137327
>He's trying to do that by expelling non-citizens who are a burden on our social welfare system
That's retarded

>>137317
Perception of egghead scientists who spent 12 years getting their degree so they could conspire to scam taxpayers for grant money to support communism + "you can't know nuthin'" probably doesn't help.

>>137277
Both parties are designed to push policies for the rich. Republicans overtly push for decreased taxes and regulations, Democrats push to devalue labor by increasing the supply in excess of demand.

>>137324
What basic needs are not being met? Are people dying in the streets?

>>136658
by "every country" you mean "only countries with no space program"

>>135942
>get to talk to president about something you wanted to do since 1969
>instead of convincing him why it's good, you mock him
why are liberals fucking retarded

>>137384
Wrong.

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

>>136658
Unlike Sealand, the US has the military to back up such a claim.

>>137385
...Where did she mock him? She was explaining it to him like he asked, and encouraging him to keep focusing on the project.

>>137373
>Are people dying in the streets
Yes, in fact, on a daily basis. Go down to West Virigina some time, or turn down the wrong street in a city like New York, people are in fact dying in the streets (some even die in the gutters, if you can believe it).

>>137414
It's all about fiscal priorities. For the price of one new aircraft carrier the government could feed the homeless military MREs in a few American cities AND go back to to the moon. Or for the price of a B-2 stealth bomber they could finance another Cassini-like mission and reinitialize the system of "poor farms" like they had in the 19th century on some of that federal land the government has been holding for over 200 years.

>>137414
People really die in the gutters all the time and our major cities are littered with corpses? Where do all the corpses go and why is this not national news?

>>137420
Are you a fucking child? This shit happens daily here in Chicago

>>137428
I am just trying to point out that there is not a basic needs crisis in this country, nor any other first world nation. Over 95% of all people are not at risk of dying due to not having access to food and water. Yes, we could do better, but to make grandiose claims that make it sound like you live in fucking Syria is disingenuous. The fact that there even is a welfare system in place puts the poor in this country leaps and bounds ahead of over 50% of the human population around the world. People do die all the time in the streets in chicago, but many are due to gang violence, drugs or other behavior and not from lack of basic needs. If you really think that the US of all fucking places has a humanitarian crisis with how we treat the poor you have never visited a third world nation and seen an actual emaciated person begging on the streets.

>>137263
>government X, Y or Z
Or private society like Space X.
We don't need that much resources, and the point of an international cooperation is that it helps with these tensions between nations.
>we have yet to know what the full consequences of living so far away from the earth might be on human beings.
Err, distance to earth isn't a problem. We'll send people who aren't sensitive to "feeling homesick".
Consequences to solar radiation exposure are known : high cancer risk to insta-death, depending on dose.

>>137384
Poor countries with no space program didn't even dream of visiting alien lands, so when the First World asked to ban itself from claiming these lands, poor countries had no reason not to accept.

>>137436
>AMERICA FIR-
>America kind of ahead the rest of the world, but very far from being first, and not even trying to be
>Struggling to explain that gang violence is somehow not due to poverty
The thing is, if people had good paying legal jobs, they wouldn't create illegal jobs for themself. Best way to make gangs disappear is to hire every single member and henchman in a better job. Create a liberal competition to mafia and gangs.
Not the easiest solution of course, but the best long-term.

>>137449
Your green text completely ignores the point I was making. I never claimed America was the best, just that it is better then most other places with regards to quality of life, regardless of income bracket. You blatantly sidestepped the issue of the US failing to meet the basic needs of a large percentage of citizens.

The gang aspect is a multifaceted issue and reducing it to simply "they kill because they are poor" ignores the complexity of the situation. Your solution is equally simplistic for numerous reasons. First, what is a good paying job? The traditional definition would be to use purchasing power, so a good paying job is only good relative to a bad paying job. Therefore if everyone has a good paying job, then no one does. Prices will rise accordingly due to the increased influx of money into the lower class. Second, these jobs would need to artificially be created due to their not already beong enough demand for these potential workers and with robotics steadily improving will likely be the first to be phased out. More importantly though, it has to be a job they want to work. We can easily put them out in a field picking strawberries, but I doubt they would do it. Finally, ignoring all of that, there is no way for you to implement this besides creating a shit ton of government public works jobs similar to the new deal. Unfortunately this is not sustainable and will ultimately fail. There is a reason why it has not been done and it is not because some asshole wants to fuck over the poor.

>>137452
Is there a country on Earth that meets the basic needs of 100% of its citizens?

So we shouldn't explore space until all countries on Earth take care of 100% of their citizens?

>>137470
We can't meet everyone's needs simply because there aren't enough raw materials on a single planet, so resources will naturally be warred over by the resident populations of animals.

We don't need to go to mars right now. A dead red planet isn't going to help.

The asteroid redirect mission WAS going to help, but it has been delayed or cancelled.

If humanity seeks to enjoy a healthy, wealthy momentum: keep landing probes on materially rich asteroids, design rockets to redirect them into lucrative orbits, space miners become rich, economy prospers, we have surplus.

What happens with that surplus is another problem. You all have to grow comfortable with all of your fellow humans being 'materially rich', which would upset most of the social and political ecosystems earthlings seem to have come to enjoy.

Of course this is mostly fantasy. If we can't develop warp technology our children will starve to death once we've mined out this solar system. Perhaps we'll try to send frozen egg and sperm on many different trajectories for hopeful planets.

>>137503
This is what we've been reduced to, the functionality of a mere virus. Toppest of keks, sir

>>137385
/pol/tard reading comprehension

>>137414
>turn down the wrong street in a city like New York

The month of February had the city’s lowest crime figures in any of the 25 years since the introduction of CompStat, police announced on Wednesday.

Overall major crime dropped 9.7 percent — by 709 crimes — this February over the same month last year, from 7,339 index crimes in 2016 to 6,630 in 2017.

There was a bump in murders from from 18 to 20 last month but five of them took place in years past and had to be reclassified, including the death of Det. Steven McDonald. who passed away in the hospital this year but was shot in Central Park in 1986, cops said.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/01/nycs-low-crime-rate-just-got-even-lower/

It's not the 80s anymore. Stop talking shit about New York.

>>137503
>The asteroid redirect mission
The one in Star Wars, or the one /x/ talked about? Because none were real projects.

>>136408
yes yes it was the welfare and bettering people's lives that drained the treasury, not a tax system ever changing to favor the wealthy and foreign wars against enemies that pose no threat to America

>>137599
It got me thinking... How much did that hack elon musk make thanks to government subsidies?

>>137503
>We can't meet everyone's needs simply because there aren't enough raw materials on a single planet

That's not true. We have way more than enough to go around. It's just that we don't like to share, can't get along with each other and are too married to our consumerism and modern luxuries.

We already grow enough food for 10 billion people, and we're nowhere near as efficient as we could be at agriculture.

Think of how many resources we could save if everyone who owned a cell phone used it a year or two longer before getting a new one and then made sure the old one was recycled. Or if we got serious about mass transportation instead of building our transportation system around the assumption that every household own a car or two. Or if everyone just chose to eat half as much meat.

We waste so much it's incomprehensible. We could spend all day going over the social, political, moral, whatever reasons why people's needs aren't met but "there's not enough" is a complete lie.

prometeus

>>137601
>0$
He don't receive any subsidies any-more, and reimbursed any received in the past.


I'm a Yuro, my government can give me money to add insulation when redoing my rooftop, that could help me add solar panels, but this money isn't for Tesla, it is for me. And it's obviously not American government's money.

>>137503
>Perhaps we'll try to send frozen egg and sperm on many different trajectories for hopeful planets.
I've heard this before but what's the point of this? Interstellar, a fiction, at least had people to set up the human birthing pods. If in reality we send a bunch of eggs and sperm to some other planet, we still have to deal with a bunch of technologies we don't have anyway. Birthing pods, automated processes to raise the humans or accelerate their growth, etc. Right now those are still in the realm of science-fiction and speculation, the same as light-speed travel. Unless the whole thing is hoping that some Good Sa-Martian aliens we don't know about yet will find our thawing gametes and decide for some unknown reason to use them to make more humans.

>>140779
Robot probes, of course. Like the Voyager program but at relativistic speeds.

>>137320
> I would actually vote for Trump to be reelected if he diverted the nation away from culture wars ...

This

>>137542
He made a good point!!

>>137503
Mars has minerals we can use .

>>137599
No welfare is hurting people not helping them.

>>137613
>It's just that we don't like to share
Yeah. Most people like you just want to take shit that hard workers created.

The majority of humans are lazy as shit. No country works as hard as America. That's why we kick ass and Other countries and poor and impassionate.

BOOT STRAPS

>>136483
Chinarussia will bomb the fuck out of your martian colony, fem

>>137407
And so does at least couple other little countries with nuclear arms.

>>135942
>Trump replied: “Well, we want to try and do it during my first term or, at worst, during my second term, so we’ll have to speed that up a little bit, OK?”

This isn't how Trump talks. This is how women talk.

This bitch is making the story up AS USUAL. FUCK the media.

>>137414
Liberals have a warped view of things. Are you a foreigner? Even leftists should know people don't starve in first world countries.

>>137320
>Hell, I would actually vote for Trump to be reelected if he diverted the nation away from culture wars with a ridiculous desire to put a flag on Mars.
You know the two-party system sucks when Portal 2's Space Core is a better option than either presidential candidate.

>>142588
I do hope this is a troll -- there's obviously video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFrH5nVsoH0

>>142611
Given the state of the media I'm assuming every anti-Trump report is based off anonymous or second hand sources

Ever heard "the boy who cried wolf?" Well i heard it too many times and I don't give a shit anymore.

>>142608
>Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace

>>142591
Word. If you starve to death in this country it's because you chose to

What happened to the reusable space planes and rockets or the space guns which would cut down costs to thousands of dollars instead of millions? I'm sick of NASA using disposable rockets instead of a more durable solution, the kikes are preventing the public from accessing spaceflight

>>137613
I was like you once. Then I graduated, got a job, and got married.

>>140824
>>143677
>waaaaaaaaaaah asceticism is bad because muh work effic (you can't work hard and live simply either? what a generation of nu-males)

Sad!

>>135942
>>136391
>>136397
Gov. has said it is going to go to mars "in 20 yrs." since 1979.
I would like to see it done soon; I am tired of waiting!!!

>>137503
Didn't NASA say there was minerals (iron,copper,etc.) on Mars?

>>140809
I agree, to think that the Earth is the only planet with minerals on is foolish.

>>143655
They either are imaginary, or a private company created by a stranger only recently got the technology to make it work.

>>144645
Yes, and? You don't think about bringing them back, do you? Space travel still cost millions per pound.
Sure, we can use it there and build rockets to deeper space, or enlarge a colony. Once and if we have one. But it's not a reason to go there in the first place.