Alabama senate votes to allow church to form own police force

Whatever happened to separation of church and state?

>>131155
The USA only had to be separated from the church of England

>>131135
>The Alabama Senate has voted to allow a church to form its own police force.

FUCK YOU!!1! NO MUSLIM SHARIA LAW IN AMERICA!

>Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department.

Oh… well, that’s fine.

Briarwood Presbyterian Church is one of those superchurches. Go look it up on Google Maps. It's like a compact college campus.

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017/02/briarwood_presbyterian_church_2.html

>"We've got over 30,000 events a year that take place at Briarwood - going on all day, all night, at the school, at the church, at the seminary," Johnston said. "We have to hire policemen all the time. It would be so much easier to have someone on staff."

Since no news website wants to post a source... here's a direct link to the bill.
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/alison/searchableinstruments/2017RS/bills/SB193.htm

>Church has to hire someone to act as a police officer, rather than an actual officer

>Hire has to get police trained

>Church police can't work outside the church

They're mall cops.

First Amendment states,
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
That's a problem of being an unconstitutional law on the federal level, but a grey area for state.

>>131168
Call me back when you see Christian extremist violence on a level similar to Muslim extremist violence.

No, Westboro Baptist Churst doesn't count.

>>131135
They should be allowed to contract the local police force, but no way in hell should they be given full oversight. This just opens the door for them to police based on doctrine. Sharia police could quite literally become a reality in America if this bill passes.

>>131231
This is how that shit starts. Just because it's not as bad doesn't mean it still isn't a terrible trend.

>>131168
Thus validating the concept of Sharia Law?

Nope. Shut it down.

>>131188
I can see the need for a quick response force to meet their needs.

However the devil is going to be in the details. Will they be required to call 911? Do they do investigations? In something like a rape case, can they collect evidence? How are the officers trained?

Fuck one of these up and you pretty much got Sharia law zones in the US.

>>131231
>two wrongs must make a right!

Cast out the beam out of thine own eye etc.

>>131155
that only applies to brown people religions

>>131231
It's going to set a dangerous precedent.

>>131258
Agreed. Same thing should apply to universities.

>>131291
Counties in Louisiana have been referred to as "Parishes" for a long, long time. Where's all the cajun suicide bombers?

>>131324
They are called parishes, but the sheriffs aren't appointed by the church. Think before you post.

>>131258
Well no, because Police can only operate based on the criminal code that applies to them and the judicial system they report to.

>>131324
Their political motivation for terrorism is more focused on the killing of police officers, rather than mass mayhem.

>>131231
>Call me back when you see Christian extremist violence on a level similar to Muslim extremist violence.

You unaware of the years of sectarian violence know as 'The Troubles'?

The IRA used to love blowing up British pubs, gleefully sponsored by their Catholic chums in the US.

Have to say that when the Boston marathon was bombed, the location gave me cause for a dark chuckle.

My question is, why do they need a complete police force on-staff? I think the safest way to do this is to have a police-trained security staff, who don't have the same legal powers as a real police officer, and who would have to report any and all crimes to an actual valid police force. I mean... what's the difference, really? Fine, it makes sense that a church that large needs a security force.. but why do they have to have a police force of their own? Can't they do like literally any mall, college campus, resort/conference center, et cetera, and just hire a security staff to manage whatever low-level enforcement issues they might need? When you think about it, a fully-fledged police officer has a very large capability as to what they can do, including making arrests based merely on suspicion or, as we've seen quite often in the media, use of deadly force against unarmed targets. I'm not saying that it would go to any sort of extreme like that, but my gut tells me the church in question is more fishing for a precedent than needing a private police force. Really, why is it they "need" a police force of their own? Do police in Alabama charge money for their investigative services, is that it? If you call 9/11 to report a crime, or file a report at a local police station, is there a service fee attached? I understand that if you want to have police officers regularly on patrol you must pay them for their time, but why is it that they would need an active police force over a capable, large scale security force? Is it possible that what they really want is the legal powers of an officer of the law, but who, rather than working for the county or the local government, works for their church and is under their employment? Not to mention the fact that this "superchurch" doesn't pay taxes, yet has enough money that they can hire a full-time police force...

deusvult

>>131292
>Same thing should apply to universities.

Indeed, why is it OK for a college to have their own cops?

Shouldn't the same issue of the college's police force possibly covering up crimes on campus also apply?

yet another reason to never step foot in that backwater redneck state

inb4 walks of atonement

>SHAME!
>ding ding
>SHAME!
>ding ding
>SHAME!
>ding ding

>>131135
I actually live around Birmingham, and when I first saw this article I thought it was for the First Baptist Church in Gardendale, a city about fifteen minutes from Birmingham, that's pretty much taken over the town.
Church members are on the city council and actively try to ruin shops whose owners don't attend the church. They've got these little maps of gardendale that implore church members not to shop at these establishments.
I'm okay with normal churches, but fuck mega churches like that

>>131672
That's some fucked up shit, right there. I live in Olathe, Kansas and we have a couple mega churches doing screwy stuff, but nothing like that. Our mega churches own huge plots if prime real estate and rent out sections to chain restaurants like Applebee's. I'm not sure how legitimate it is for a church to take rent payments from a national chain.

>>131697
Ours doesn't do anything like that, but the whole plot for the church is about 3 miles long, maybe 2 wide, the parking lot encompasses a mile with little golf carts toting people to and fro.
They've also got a coffeeshop and a gift shop. I can get a coffeeshop, that's pretty smart since they're charging more than Starbucks does for a cup of coffee, but why a gift shop?
Like I said I'm fine with religion in general, but fuck that mega church. We just call it the Jesus Dome now
>THIS SUNDAY
>SUNDAY
>SUNDAY
>SUNDAY
>GET YOUR REDEMPTION ON WITH THE J-MAN

>>131672

Scientology has that a little bit with Clearwater, but they do a great job of keeping it on the dl. It's well known that there are many Scientologists in the police dept and in several positions of power, and the police regardless don't rock the boat when it comes to dealing with the Church, while the Church can definitely make shit hard for businesses who do so by bringing down the city council hammer, etc.

>>131701
>but why a gift shop?

Well remember how Jesus reacted to the merchants in the temple? I don't remember the exact words in the Bible, but it was something like:
>Lo, Jesus cameth in and looked on the vendors with disappointment. He said, 'You are selling petty goods here in the eyes of the Lord; Double your prices, as idiots will pay anything in a church!'

>>131537
The Troubles were rooted in Unionist discrimination towards the minority that wanted Ulster to be part of the Republic, and the IRA were all about separating Ulster from the UK through terrorism so that could happen.

Hardly a "go commit a suicide bombing because your God told you to"

Religion = Brainwashed.

It doesn't matter what label they use.

>>131341
You don't actually believe they will be fair and balanced do you?

>>131697
And it's all tax free even though they're probably making assloads of cash. Most megachurches and televangelists just seem like fronts for pastors to make off with obscene amounts of money and live extravagant lifestyles while pretending that they're holy.

I know there's one in Houston that has two locations on opposite sides of town. Each one has a landing pad and the pastor has his own private helicopter that he takes between the two to do his sermon. It's ridiculous.

>>131135
I can see it already.

Donald trump presents:
The crusades.

>>132078
How is this at all related to Trump? Besides his unabashed support for Israel I can't think of any favoritism he has shown towards a single creed. Discrimination most certainly, but not support.

I can see this as very problematic in the future if this bill is passed.

Legally, what's the differences between a private security officer and a police officer? What advantages would the police officer have? Unless they plan on building a jail they surely won't house anyone they detain so there's going to be cooperation with the local police force from the beginning. Why does the church need someone with the full powers and authority of a police officer rather than a security officer?

One thing that comes to mind is how much money some churches spend on hiring officers to do off-duty work, like traffic control when their thousands of members all try to exit onto a highway after service. Maybe they figured it'd be cheaper and easier to have an officer on staff full-time rather than having to have a bunch of part-timers rotating shifts for 1.5xhourly wage (which is what we have to pay police here if we need to hire them for an event.)

>>132157
A private security force must be payed for by the contracting agency. A public police force is payed for through taxes.

>>131155
Your undergoing a separation of police and state.
Private prisons, private security.
This actually looks like the quite normal (by US standards) of putting dedicated officers in schools.
They've just done it in the most constitutionally controversial way possible.

>>131162
>The USA only had to be separated from the church of England
Sounds like something a Papist would say.
It applies just as much to Rome or any other church and don't you forget it.

>>131168
Some Christians have forgotten that hypocrisy is not a virtue.

>>131188
Thank you for bringing facts rather than feelings.
Did the bill say who the cops would be answerable to?

To have the full power of law enforcement but to answer only to the church seems a bit too much, but maybe this is the norm in the US, for campuses to have police separate from the local police hierarchy.

>>132175
I'm not familiar with the experiences of others, but when I was in high school and college in the US we had police officers on campus (with the college having a precinct located there.) They were not separate from the local police at all. The one police officer assigned to our high school kept an office at the school and didn't go in to the precinct often, but he answered to his chief before the school board. And the cops on the college campus would respond to any calls within that area (including off-campus) but the calls coming from the school grounds kept them fairly busy. But they were just another precinct like all the others.

>>132150
PMC's soon son

>>131283
how do private security operate? when are they obligated contact local authorities?

let's say you have a sexual abuse case that is brought up to private security, are they mandatory reporters? are they shielded from misconduct if they don't report it to the police?

As long as they are policing the church and individuals associated with the church only, then I personally don't see a problem. Their jurisdiction will probably be confined to that church property. If an Islamic group in the us wanted the same police force, then same rules would have to apply. Keep the Muslim police confined to their church.

>>131588
It is brouht up.

If you look past the screaming heads about pretending to be raped back when colleges started hitting the lime light. It was brought into question by various stories and researchers that schools had ass backwards protocols designed to minimize trouble even at the cost of justice.

>>131697
Paying Jesus in ribblets is the least we can do

>>132353
I think a lot of the details are going to vary by state. Legally they have to report the crime. In that regard their authority is no different than you or I who might witness someone getting raped but then not reporting it. How colleges got away with this was by threatening the students or encouraging them not to report it to real police.

Actual obligations will also vary by the contract between the employer and firm. For example security officers for school A may simply be trained on how to direct traffic and issue parking tickets. While B may pay a higher price to have them act as professional bouncers at sporting events and first responders.

>>131135
>Critics of the bill argue that a police department that reports to church officials could be used to cover up crimes.

Literally could use that same argument for universities like... oh... Pen State:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_child_sex_abuse_scandal
>One child's mother reported the incident to Penn State police when he came home with his hair wet. After an investigation by Detective Ronald Shreffler, Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar chose not to prosecute. Shreffler testified before the grand jury that director of the campus police, Thomas Harmon, told him to drop the case. University police eavesdropped on conversations during which the mother confronted Sandusky about the incident. He admitted to showering with other boys and refused to discontinue the practice. District Attorney Gricar was not available to testify, as he had disappeared in 2005.

>Police experts have said such a police department would be unprecedented in the US.

Not really, there are fundamentalist Mormon cult towns that de facto have the local police under their "church"'s control in Utah.

>>131155

For the thousandth time, that doesn't imply atheism. There is no preferential treatment and they are not enforcing a different law like Sharia.

>>132675
>tfw go to penn state
>tfw university is forever known for this

>>132681
Your fault for sticking around the pedophile campus

>>132879
>>132681
>Have one pedophile
>Remove them
>Still associated with pedophilia

You produce amazing research and alumni, but just one coach is a rapist, now it's known as a school of rape and pedophilia

>>131168
Rednecks, stupid piece of human garbage and worst of all murrican, i mean the nazis had taste and style and awesome uniforms, but this retards are even worst than black ghettos

>>132904
>Have one pedophile that's was active for a long while and covered up by everyone else because SPORTS

Penn state deserves it

>>131135
Muslims will have a field day with this if it is allowed to set precedent.

>>131986

>hah stupid religion wiph all der thupid rools
>with religon, I have to actually think about my action and live justly

>>133355
If you need religion to be your moral compass, then you never had any morals anyways.

If you can't be a decent person without religion, then you should seriously consider killing yourself.