Graphic details emerge of rape of girl, 14, 'who was sodomized

IMMIGRANTS WELCOME

IN HER ANUS

I LOVE MINORITIES

>>124104
>Reminder that this is the future liberals chose
Illegals are less than 5% of the population. Violent criminal illegals are an even smaller percentage. There is no crime wave of illegals raping and killing women, they are playing it up to scare you, piss you off and get you distracted like they have with everything else. Remember the shooting sprees? Statistically irrelevant in the realm of gun crime right? Yet people pushing for regulations with them as justification. Same principle.

You are being brainwashed dumbass, and what's more you're helping them do it.

Grow the fuck up and stop being such a schmuck.

>>124104

We need a deportation system.

If you're an immigrant, and you commit ANY crime, the punishment is deportation.

This applies to group sets of immigrants. Like how entire families can immigrate together.

If any one of these immigrants commit a crime, the ENTIRE FAMILY is gone with no hope of traveling to America again.

>>124244
That's retarded.

>>124205
fuck off, kike.

>>124282
Am I fucking wrong faggot? Why not report some black guy raping a girl or a white guy? Think those don't happen? This shit was on national news, coast to coast. Why focus on this one tiny group? Because they want to brainwash you just like the antigun crowd never talked about gang crime in Birmingham or Chicago and it was always these statistically irrelevant mass shootings they kept trying to mindfuck everyone with.

>>124284
i've got friends in sweden, and when they tell me there are grenade attacks in malmo, i believe them.

where is your evidence that this is not a perpetually-growing problem? do you think at some point they will just stop? appeasement is a pathetic strategy, and worse, it won't work.

where do you live anon? i bet money it isn't in any of these soon-to-be warzones.

>>124284
Why haven't you fucked off yet?

You dare imply that we should ignore criminal illegals, because they are a small fraction of the population aka minorities

Kys, you rape apologist. 4chan will be a better site once your corpse is rotting in the ground.

>dailymail
every fucking day with this shit
starting to think we have some shills on our hands

>>124281


We need a deportation system.

If you're an immigrant, and you commit ANY crime, the punishment is deportation.

This applies to group sets of immigrants. Like how entire families can immigrate together.

If any one of these immigrants commit a crime, the ENTIRE FAMILY is gone with no hope of traveling to America again.

>>124294

Write a tweet to Trump: make it so.

>>124286
You're asking me for proof that something isn't? Are you retarded? Prove to me that illegals commit a significant portion of violent crimes.

Also fuck off with Malmo, we're talking about America.

>>124289
obvious bait

>>124289
>You dare imply that we should ignore criminal illegals
>You dare

Nigger...you take the internet too fucking seriously. Yeah boy I sure "dare" check out mah balls hyuuk..fucking faggot holy shit.


I'm saying its getting national attention because they want to brainwash you. In actuality the crime happens daily by people of all backgrounds, that they're illegal is irrelevant to the event. Its just them trying to make you go "hey look, this is what THEY come here and do, THEY'RE EVIL!", when really its some small percentage of crimes they commit.

>>124294
That is still retarded also please stop spamming.

>>124299

Nigga, pls. Bait implies I want you to feel something like anger or rage and respond. I only want you to die: no feelings involved. No further posts necessary.

>>124303
Thats not me faggot thats Anonymous

>>124284
Hey dumbass, the problem with your argument is that the two examples you're trying to parallel (black-on-white, mass shootings) with crimes by illegal immigrants is that in those cases they don't stem from anything illegal. Being black isn't illegal, owning a firearm isn't illegal.

BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS ILLEGAL. Which makes these crimes incredibly EASY to prevent, unlike the other two, faggot. You can't just deport blacks or anyone who owns a gun, but all you have to do is ENFORCE THE LAW and keep illegals out of the country and these problems literally go to zero.

kys

>>124303
>I-I'LL BEAT YOU UP IN THIRTY YEARS

lol you would've been better off if you were just baiting nu-male

>>124320
how is that what he said

>>124302
Double posts are 100% legal

>>124312
Neither does this. It stems from shitty upbringing and crap morals. It has nothing to do with them being illegal.

And no they are not easy to prevent for several reasons not least of which is finding illegals.

>all you have to do is ENFORCE THE LAW

The law sucks though and too many people don't want to enforce it.

wow! another illegal rapes someone and makes a mess out of a town that had no problems before they got their.

>>124301
1. This bs argument could be used for literally anything
2. The media is 90% liberal
3. It's not that they're minorities, it's that they're fucking backwater degenerate idiots from shithole countries. Mexicans and refugees don't belong in the US unless they're top level. These ones obviously weren't, and before you go and say their are shitty natives my response is yes: there are, and it doesn't fucking matter.

>>124104
Fuck off, Piers.

>>124344
No it couldn't be used for anything. When people go out of their way to drudge out irrelevant facts and try to make them relevant it's because they want to change your mind about something. The tragedy should be the girl getting raped not that illegals did it but then you couldn't get all huffed up on anger juice if they just said guy a and guy b.

As for not belonging in the US they do if they have a single direct family member here. Period.

Btw these guys weren't even mexican, did you read the article?

>>124373
This post... I am filled with contempt

>>124376
Why should immigration laws pull families apart? Why report on so much on a tiny insignificant portion of crimes and go on and on on them being illegal? You're being brainwashed faggot, dwi.

>>124312
many thousands of people are illegally raped every year in the US

>>124244
>punishment is deportation.
I've got a better idea, execution by firing squad

White men are weak.

Empathy = low testosterone and high estrogen.

>>124282
can you refute what they said though?

>>124377
Not that anon, but committing any kind of crime will pull a family apart. Commit tax fraud and you'll be seeing a federal prison away from your family for quite some time. There's absolutely no reason this should be any different. If they don't want to split up then they're welcome to go with the person they care about.

People focus on the status of illegal aliens because if sovereignty and border laws were enforced the crimes they commit could have be duly prevented.

>>124301
>when really its some small percentage of crimes they commit.
read some statistics you retard

If they are here illegally how are they getting a state funded education lol! This makes zero sense. Our country is so stupid with how they deal with immigrants. They are a drain on the system. We already have plenty of legal citizens that drain it. We don't need anymore bags of shit weighing us down. Split their families up...you get what you deserve when you do illegal shit. We split families up all the time when we send daddies to jail for doing illegal shit. But for some reason the same doesn't apply to illegal immigrants? WTF? Haha...full blown retarded

>>124281
Ok rabbi

>>124298
Prison population of border states is an ok start

>>124480
NO U

>>124478
Illegals are illegals because the system doesn't work. 5, 8, 10, 15 and sometimes even 20 years to go through a bureaucracy is ridiculous.

And that's what many times it amounts to. Stripping families and lives apart becayse of rubber stamps. It's retarded and you're a retard if you can sit there and tell me with a straight face that it's great when an american family is torn apart because someone couldn't navigate an overbloated system no one has the will to fix. Because some bureaucrat in some office somewhere didn't get enough respect and didn't have a chance to take 5 years to stamp a fucking paper.

>>124480
Present them faggot.

By all means show me the stats that say illegals are committing a huge percentage of violent crime.

>>124527
No it isn't that simply tells me they committed a crime but you can go to prison for crimes other than violent ones. It also lumps in cartel pawns that go to the US for specific jobs with illegals that cone here to live.

>>124537
I quite frankly don't care. Committing any kind of crime will strip families and pull them apart. Being an illegal alien is a crime and should be no different. You're not entitled to live in the US just because you want to and a stringent immigration system is important in making sure those who come to the US are committed and invested into becoming an American who will benefit the country.

>>124377
>why should crimes be illegal when people have feelings

>>124205
They commit crime at a disproportionate level to their population.
immigration should be capped at 200k a year

Uhg, to anyone with the RIGHT frame of mind this Clearly is another stand for tough boarders and strick immigration, but like always and forever the left will never allow for the correlation between un vetted non assimilated immigrants! its fucked and they have an army of HardLeft Zombies to fight the war on sanity

>>124601
>Committing any kind of crime will strip families and pull them apart
That's not true though.

>a stringent immigration system is important in making sure those who come to the US are committed and invested into becoming an American who will benefit the country.
No it isn't, it's important solely in keeping the numbers low and racists happy. The system as it is now actually rewards people more for NOT being invested in the ideals of the United States. You get through faster on a business visa or worker visa, which are attained solely for economic benefit, than you do so you can be part of an American family.

Your argument is such blatant bullshit its amazing.

>>124611
It's more like:
>Why should something be illegal when the legal method doesn't work.

>>124615
>at a disproportionate level
Great, that does not transalt to what I'm asking you. I am asking you to prove that illegals commit a significant portion of violent crimes. And again, that's illegals living in the states not cartel thugs sent into the states to work.

>>124634
They commit a disproportionate number of violent crimes, and absolutely every single one is a criminal.
They also cost the USFG a massive amount of money in Healthcare and public service costs.

>>124638
>They commit a disproportionate number of violent crimes
Is it a significant portion of violent crimes and if so prove it if not fuck off.

>every single one is a criminal.
Most people are, there are so many laws on the books that aren't enforced I'd hesitate to say 3 in 10 people in the US hadn't broken the laws in some fashion at some point.

Besides, what are they guilty of? Not adhering to bureaucracy, big whoop. Don't care at all that some guy somewhere didn't get to stamp another piece of paper.

>They also cost the USFG a massive amount of money in Healthcare and public service costs.

they actually contribute more in taxes than they recieve in services because they aren't entitled to a great many services but most methods of employment for them still require they pay taxes.

This however is entirely irrelevant.

You're trying to change the subject because you can't answer the original question.

>The two teenagers then allegedly proceeded to take turns holding down the young girl while forcing her to perform oral sex on them and raping her both vaginally and anally on the toilet multiple times while communicating with one another in Spanish

People pretending they're outraged by minority crimes, they include this to make dicks hard. Dicks = clicks.

>>124640
>Who cares if they don't follow the law!
not an argument
>they actually contribute more than they take
Prove it.
That is absolutely false, costs to Texas' public services alone disprove that statement

>>124644
>not an argument
It is, I'm saying you're asking the lives of every illegal alien be stripped away and their families taken because of bureaucratic norms.

I'm saying you're a godless degenerate retard and your opinion should be disregarded.

>Prove it.

Why should I google anything for your ass when you still haven't proven what I asked you to prove?

In fact you're such a colossal faggot you just completely sidestepped the whole argument we were having. You didn't even quote that part.

>>124630
Yes it is. There are many crimes which upon conviction will estrange you from your family. Stop trying to play up the "families," bit like it means anything in this context when everyone sentenced to any stretch in any prison deals with the same thing. It's nothing more than a straight up sob story appeal to emotion.

Low numbers means high stability since large influxes of immigrants, especially poor ones, create a host of problems that are not offset by the benefits. You may not like it, but the racists are right in that keeping immigration at a small trickle to facilitate proper assimilation is the only way to do it peacefully.

>>124632
It does work, it just doesn't allow the volume of poor immigration you seem to be advocating for.

>>124675
>Yes it is. There are many crimes which upon conviction will estrange you from your family.
>many crimes
>many

Goal post shifting.

>racists are right in that keeping immigration at a small trickle to facilitate proper assimilation is the only way to do it peacefully.

That's historically inaccurate though.

>It does work
12 million people and a $900 billion pricetag say different.

>the volume of poor immigration you seem to be advocating for.
I'm not though, its just what you're hearing because you're a racist scumbag threatened by any number greater than zero.

>>124205
Best post ever.
Once upon a time, you could find such kind of posts on /pol/. Not any more, unfortunately.

>>124244
>If you're an immigrant, and you commit ANY crime, the punishment is deportation.
This would never work in my country, Italy.
The criminal code is so complex that I extremely easy to commit crimes without knowing it. Plus, it changes quite often.

Judicial instability make it inapplicable to use deportation as a penalty for crimes that are objectively negligible.

t. Swearing is a criminal offence in Italy. It's not enforced, but nobody ever abridged the related law.

>>124312
>BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS ILLEGAL.
This is something that intrigues me of your entire legal system, my -- presumably -- American friend.

Usually, it works like that:
>an action is seen as objectively harmful to others
>bills are approved to make it illegal
>the laws are enforced to bring about change in behaviour

Of course, some of you think this is just an action-reaction thing, i.e.
>breach => punishment (assuming punishment will teach by itself)
However,there is a shit-ton of empirical evidence that states punishment alone does not solve problems. Thus, punishment must go along with policies meant to bring about substantial changes in the social and cultural fabric of a country.

Now, I am a libertarian, so I do not think the State is above me--the collectivity of other citizens is above me, but not the State as an élite.
It is very common for élites to outlaw things not because they are bad per se, but just because outlawing them helps keeping the status quo.

This said, there are indeed many crimes that are such just because a piece of paper says so, yet they do not bear serious consequences as a matter of fact.

Just because two things are listed in the criminal code, this does not make them equal on an ethical level--nor on a legal level ('cause their seriousness may vary).

There are cultures, like mine, whose legal systems treat the movement of people as a mere breach of civil law. You may get a fine, but it's seen more like parking in the wrong spot than destroying property.

It is peculiar of Anglo legal systems to value property above people.
In continental legal system, people (humans) are always considered to stand above property. This has nothing to do with socialism, but with the belief in human rights that come before everything else.
Anglo legal systems have laws against walking, against loitering (I don't even know how to translate this in my own language).

You have laws meant to punish people just for the fact of "being there"!

>>124695
such weakness you show

>guys srsly this is the opinion you want to have trust me k

>>124632
>countries shouldnt have borders its mean >;<

>>124705
Do you have a fucking point? Why do leftists talk in such rambling convuted ways.

It's a confusion attack, right?

>>124709
>countries shouldnt have borders its mean
So basically:
>if i strawman hard enough maybe people won't realize I'm utterly retarded and incapable of original thought

>>124681
How is that shifting posts? Did you actually think I literally meant ANY kind of crime in the previous post? It's fucking obvious I was talking about crimes that are punishable with prison sentences, many of which are not violent crimes.

It's not historically inaccurate, that's the only way immigration works. There's a word for mass immigration without assimilation. Invasion. Every single wave of immigration since the US has been founded has been carefully controlled with assimilation forced upon the populous.

It does work and that fact doesn't change just because a bunch of criminals fell through the limbo cracks due to vote hungry Democrats and labor hungry Republicans deciding not to enforce border laws without changing the system first. Those people were let in to be deliberately exploited one way or another.

I don't care what you call me either, because it's obvious you're either personally attached to someone who jumped the border or just another person scrounging for more open borders relativism because of delusional misguided compassion. A country without strong borders cannot have social safety nets and I'd rather the American government serve its people first and foremost.

>>124705
Foreigners are simply not owed spots in American society. It's that simple. Sorry if that reality isn't compassionate enough for you, but that is indeed reality. If American laws harm criminals trying to break our immigration laws then so be it, I will lose no sleep over it. Fuck, that's what they're designed to do, to make sure we can control who comes, goes, and stays.

Fucking idiots saying why dont you post about whites or blacks.
Them whites and blacks are preventable. Illegals committing crimes are preventable.
Just dont fucking let them in

>>124826
Whites and blacks arent*

>>124828
At this point you should expect whenever you talk about immigrant populations in the West to be met with two almost guaranteed responses. A shit load of "white guy whataboutism," and endless deflections to Christianity. They've given up defending the groups they say they're defending because they know the arguments are lost so their only recourse now is to derail with their patented subversion and cultural relativism.

>>124724
Its clear you're anti borders

Quit bullshitting

>>124849
Dumbfuck retard.

>>124104
>Reminder that this is the future liberals chose with their immigration policies. When can we start holding them accountable for what is happening here?
>no true american would ever rape a girl

>>124104
According to islamic consensus it's ok to have sex with your 9 years old wife(just like the prophet) so 14 is old for them, and also a rapist marriyng his victim should escape prosecution (in fact girl's will don't count ). They don't understand why we make such a fuss about it

>>124817
Yes strange as it may seem a did think you LITERALLY meant what you wrote, maybe you shouldn't write stupid crap in the future and expect people to not think that's not what you mean, eh? Crazy right? But you're still wrong on a plain of equivalency. Granted violent criminal illegals should indeed be deported after serving time for their crime you go one step further and think they should all be. The problem here is that the punishment does not fit the crime. Any disagreement on this part does in fact out you as a racist more concerned with punishing browns than any law.

As I have said before you are advocating stripping away peoples lives and families based on noncompliance with bureaucracy. If applied to anything else like say drivers licenses or birth certificate registration, you would think it was insane but in this instance you're ok with it based on the fact it happens to non-Americans that only decided to forego the bureaucracy because it didn't actually give them an option they could accomplish on their own anyway.

Strict immigration to the US being the norm is a total myth. You're literally making this up now, it didn't become really difficult until I believe the 60's. The US is a melting pot with a vast array of public holidays and traditions stemming from several different cultures. Latin Americans would simply add to that, Touching again on my point about the system not giving illegals any option but to be illegals, that's precisely why it does not work, it isn't merit based. See the system as it stands now promotes cronyism and nepotism unless you-re part of the .05% of the world that's incredibly gifted. It's why we have 12 million illegals here with no chance of being able to pay the $900 billion pricetag it would cost to catch and deport them. You're right about illegals being here as some sort of ploy to have an exploitable pool of workers however that would still be something stemming from the system put in place.

>>124872
Open borders btfo

>>124817
>Foreigners are simply not owed spots in American society.
Both by the moral right and the legal one direct relatives of US citizens ARE in fact owed a spot in American society. The problem is that the longest such line is still processing shit from 1993.

>It's that simple.

The funny part is you're over here talking about it like you're some kind of authority and in reality you have no clue whatsoever.

>>124881
No one is advocating for open borders you mororn.

>>124884
>No one is advocating for open borders

False.

>immigration was easy until the 60s

Ahahahahahaa

Such retarded bullshit. Go die already.

>>124885
I could be wrong, I did say that was what I believed not that it was definitively so. And no I'm not advocating for open borders I'm just not going to outline my personal ideal immigration policy every time a thread arises (because it doesn't fucking matter and I shouldn't have to), nor will I agree that everyone needs to stay out and I will also not agree that 5-20 year waits for a rubber stamp is perfectly fine. I will however argue with you about the last two if you're stupid enough to feel differently.

Simply put you should be able to defend your own position, the benefits of the system as it is should be able to stand unaided and without you having to misdirect the argument towards nonsense that hasn't been uttered. Open borders weren't mentioned until you mentioned them.

>>124887
So in short you: >>124885
>>124881
>>124849
>>124709

Are fucking stupid.

>>124887
There are two views on the border and immigration.

option 1: SHUT IT DOWN

option 2: OPEN BORDERS

I don't give a fuck about whatever nuances you think your views have. Being "only kinda open borders" is still open borders.

>>124890
>hurr you can only go all the way lef or all the way right!!
Yeah, you are fucking stupid. You gotted me though troll, lol! EPIC TROLLZ LMAO XD :D ;D 8D XD

>>124891
Try to stay calm.

It's not my fault you don't understand what you're arguing for.

Liberals always try to have it both ways. You want to appease every one but it doesn't work that way.

>>124705
>You have laws meant to punish people just for the fact of "being there"!

No, we have laws that punish people for illegally crossing the border into another country without documentation or approval.

>>124897
but they only did that crime to improve their life

we're all animales

Retarded news for retarded propaganda

>>124903
If I kill you and rape your dad to improve my life, is that fine?

>>124913
Wow can't

>>124897
We have laws in which the punishment no longer fits the crime. You are saying it's perfectly fine to strip people of their lives and family because of bureaucratic norms. You are insane and subhuman.

>>124919
>Waaa, anyone should be able to take advantage of another country without repercussions

wee woo wee woo the wambulance is here for you

>>124919
Didn't sone 14 year old just get gang raped by an illegal alien?

>beurocratic norms

If we followed "beurocratic norms" kate would still be alive. Right about now she'd be getting excited for the weekend.

Fuck you.

>>124284
>>124826
How many gang rapes white people have you seen?not so much I guess. The diference between white´s crime and other people crime its that the whites usually are insane people, meanwhile the illegals and niggers have a cultural background that endorse these actitude; thats why they have gangs

>>124922
If the kids were raised right no one would have been raped too.

>>124922
There's a lot of "ifs" that can be thrown around. If the girl had been armed and properly prepared she could have fought them off. If the parents of the two illegals had been competent they might not have considered rape an option. If the school had better monitoring they could have stopped it before it became an issue.

That however is not the issue, the issue is the media trying to use the violent conduct of some to try and assume the violent conduct of others. This is alarmist, pure and simple and it is the exact same tactic used before by leftists. Yes illegals violated the law, however in too many cases (on this charge alone) the punishment no longer fits the crime and thus should not be enforced.

>>124954
Yeah it's a shame that illegal aliens weren't raised properly. We should deport them all back home yesterday.

>>124964
I am FILLED with contempt. You are truly disgusting.

You really are trying to act like the establishment is anti-immigrant? Since when?

Your ridiculousness would be humorous if that girl wasn't traumatized because of people like you. Because of her pain, this is just sad.

>>124967
You type like Trump talks. Incoherent nonsense full of confidence.
>like the establishment is anti-immigrant

I said the media, and this is news media.

>ridiculousness

Stripping people of their lives over a rubber stamp is ridiculous.

>>124998
>You type like Trump talks
you just made me smile so hard it's homosexual

>>125013
thought you might take that as a compliment, lol

>>124104
>burgers think the daily mail is reliable

>>125023
You can google for other sources reporting on the story if you don't like it's reporting.

>>125095
And you're perfectly free to keep enjoying the Daily Mail's excellent high quality reporting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

>>124710
>Do you have a fucking point? Why do leftists talk in such rambling convuted ways.It's a confusion attack, right?
If I had a dime for every time some Amerifars asked "do you have a point?" to an anon.

I realizes this when I went abroad for the first time, visiting Anglo universities.

Especially in the Humanities Departments, people are obsessed not just with making "points", but also with the need the interlocutor states their point "clearly".

Except that, for the Anglos and Americans,
>clearly = dumbed down

So no, man. We're not making a straw-man just because you are so dense you are not even able to analyze a text and extrapolate some basic info out of it.

You:
>people talk to make points
Go back to communication studies 101
People talk to share info, viewpoints, to tell stories, to offer their perspectives, to bond with other people, etc.
Language has so many functions... Making points is just a narrowed down view of what dialogue is.

Also:
>he disagrees with me
>so he must be left wing
Man, the political spectrum is so diverse your claim is clearly unwarranted. Again, you use your Ameri-logic to dumb down everything to a couple of easy-to-use labels you are familiar with.

Just take it easy on the internet. It appears to me other people's opinion and stories trigger you to no end. Just stay calm, ok?

>>124849
>Its clear you're anti borders
Again, Ameriburger logic is incapable of dealing with viewpoints unless they are dumbed down to some easy-to-use supermarket label the Amerifats are able to read.

Just increase your literacy already and try to appreciate possibilities do not necessarily align to a b/w spectrum. Opinion comes in different colours. Will you appreciate that?

>>124890
>option 1: SHUT IT DOWN
>option 2: OPEN BORDERS
Ha! The binary bluepill!
You cannot reason beyond binary, can't you?

tfw you realize there are computers that handle opinions better than this anon

>>124897
Man, in my longer post I was just trying to offer a view of how your entire legal system is rigged against people who are simply standing here and there... Or they cross borders and fences.

What I am arguing against is that this shouldn't be part of criminal law.

Let me make some examples:
>suppose I trespass and steal something
>I have damaged you by means of stealing
>this is a criminal offence

Now, in your system, also trespassing is a criminal offence. you get punished for both
>1. stealing (which is an act with substantial material consequences)
>2. Crossing a line on the ground (which is an act that has no immediate nor remote negative consequences: one can cross a line and actually do something good)

Now, my argument is that you simply shouldn't put crossing a line at the same level of stealing or killing.
This is why, in many foreign legal systems, all "crimes" related to the movement of people are not really crimes but rather administrative offences.
You get a fine and that's it.

Let's take loitering, for example, which is another "offence" I struggle with the translation thereof in my language: how is the mere act of loitering damaging of somebody?
This is not the same as obstructing a passage, because there are already norms that punish "obstruction".
Worst case scenario, you could fine someone for standing on some grounds, but how could this be illegal at all? You can fine them for their own safety (i.e. Don't stand on the railways, or you might get hurt) or even to prevent the safety of others (don't stand on the railways, or you might cause an accident).

But you need a very strong case to show that moving from A to B causes great damage to others and it must hitherto be regarded as a criminal offence rather than a mere administrative one.

>>125207
Americans don't have time for bullshit.

Just look at your post, you're masturbating.

>>125211
In your system people don't even have rights

The audacity of a nonAmerican to discuss our legal issues, you have no understanding of the basis of our law.

You probably think you have free speech and freedom just like us!

>>125209
Funny how the liberals are trying to ateer people away from the left/right narrative.

You would, as people are realizing what a scourge leftism has been on the world.

Its too late.

>>125208
You're real special l, is that it? You cannot be labelled? Cool.

>>125220
>You cannot be labelled
Man, I'm just saying you have a label for meat and one for veggies, but the supermarket also contains detergents, cereals, etc.

So it's not that I don't have my own label. I do have one and it's pretty straightforward (but I'm not here to push ideology, so who cares?) I'm just saying your labelling system is kek-tier at best.

Again, you are responding to me with another statement that is, at best, unoriginal
>muh duh he rejects my imprecise labels and failed measurement of his standpoint
>so he must think he's a special snowflake
Wake up, bogan: I'm just saying you are using litres to measure distance.

This doesn't make me a special snowflake.

>>125219
>be me
>anarcho-libertarian
>against fucking border, State management, and fines in general
>called a leftist just because I try to use logic and do not fall for easy off-the shelf opinions imbued by the obvious bluepill that is American pseudo-Republicanism
Er... well done.
Is that thing again?
>disagrees with me
>thinks I must be a leftist and liberal just because
Anyway please stop calling socialists liberals, because it is pretty clear to me that the so-called American liberals often advocate authoritarian solutions (e.g. free welfare)... so they aren't liberal at all, strictu sensu.

>>125217
I am severely critical of the fact most European continental systems have been developed in order to repress free speech.

But it also seems to me that most of you think your rights exist before you just because some dudes wrote a list of them over the years.

Rights are not natural kinds. They are a construction. You are not born with them. The State says it is acknowledging them but in fact they are simply deciding what counts as a right and what doesn't. In this sense, rights are no different than privileges. In a 100 years time, things could be completely different, afaik... And there will still be morons who think the 22nd Century "rights" exist as part of the natural world just because somebody brainwashed them to think so.

The only rights are the ones you fight for, because they are not out there asking to be respected. Every society drafts different lists of right. None of them is correct or mistaken simply because there are no rights at all beyond social behaviour and language. The only thing you can fully rely on are the laws of nature -- and there are no rights in nature at all.

So, different society have different lists.
I have never said in America humans have no right. My point is that, according to some hierarchy you have (de facto), property is seen above people... to the point that merely standing on property is seen as a worse crime -- whereas in my opinion an even worse crime is the act of jailing or deporting people who have done no objectively assessable harm.

If you are able to explain to me how trespassing or crossing borders causes direct harm in most cases, I will concede some administrative fine should be issued to migrants... But deporting for having walked in a certain direction? If this is a crime, you have a strange idea of what the priorities of a people are.

And, please, no mental gymnastic.
Just demonstrate to me:
>trespassing is an act in itself that causes harm and objectively so. Not just bc the law says so

>>125222
>Man, I'm just saying you have a label for meat and one for veggies, but the supermarket also contains detergents, cereals, etc.

Not really. My supermarket has Liberals and Conservatives.

There are lots of subtle flavors of each. Liberal comes in: communist, socialist, anarchist, and even mystery flavor (that's you). But these all basically taste like Liberalism.

Then we have conservative which comes in: evangelical christian neocons, constitutional fundamentalist, libertarian. They're different, but the essential ingredients are the same.

Feel free to list the various political ideologies (that are actually different) if you desire.

>>125223
Liberal doesn't mean what it used to mean. We don't use archaic definitions.

You're a right-winger. but a gay one who doesn't understand that the left IS the problem in America. Special snowflake.

>>125223
>>125233
Follow up here

You seem to think that everyone who votes republican actually agrees with them

I probably agree with your idealistic anarcho-libertarian views way more than with the GOP, but there is no anarcho-libertarian party

I don't fool myself into thinking everyones mom and grandma will GET WOKE and start voting third party (they're all controlled op anyway)

I'm using the only tools at my disposal to work for my nation's betterment. It's not productive to break down everyone's politics into the most specific label as possible when we vote R/D.

It's not even diffferent in Europe where they have 9999 parties. It's still left/right. Communism/less communism.

>>125225
>rights are no different than privileges
You see, you don't get it.

It's really sad how the notion of a "right" has been corrupted by Europeans.

I heard you people have a "right" to paid vacation. What a joke.

Try to understand that we don't have all the same problems as you. I can say whatever I want without fear of punishment. Yes even "hate speech" and denying the holocaust.

I can defend myself and my property with lethal force. That is my right.

I could not be sent to jail for a crime I did not commit without strong evidence. (see the dingo ate my baby case in Austrailia, that kind of shit cannot happen in America)

>>125225
>If you are able to explain to me how trespassing or crossing borders causes direct harm in most cases
This isn't the basis of our law. Maybe it's how you'd like things to be, but it's irrelevant to my country.

>>125239
>I can defend myself and my property with lethal force. That is my right.
Okay, but do you appreciate it is so merely because this is being granted by you? Do you realize that at the slightest change of wind you could end up losing that right... do you?

Or do you think it will always be your right to do so? And who says that? Some supernatural creature?

That is your right only as long as they let you have it.

This is why we, as European, know very well most things could be taken away from you at the shortest notice. We value right even more because we know that they are rights only as long as we stand behind them.

I am well aware you can not be sent to jail for a crime you did not commit without strong evidence.
PROTIP: that's exactly the same in Europe. Actually, in Europe the police cannot even keep you on hold without strong evidence. Instead, last time I checked, American police can stop you for up to 24 (or 48?) hours without a warrant!

Only difference is that, in Europe, we are aware that such things are very volatile, so we fight a lot to keep up the quality of our rights.

>>125239
>This isn't the basis of our law. Maybe it's how you'd like things to be, but it's irrelevant to my country.
Don't you see this is exactly the same as my point? You are literally saying things are like that in your country just because a piece of paper says so. Don't you see how poor grounds you have for your views?

I asked you not just to show me that something is written in stone, but also to show me -- objectively, even scientifically if you want -- that something is not just wrong because the law says so, but it is also wrong for other reasons (e.g. it causes harm to someone).

If you are not able to show that... you're just the slave or whatever your papers say. Your answer sound very socialist to my ears.

>>125247
>Okay, but do you appreciate it is so merely because this is being granted by you?
That's not accurate.

Once again, you don't undertand.

Europeans think America is just as shitty their home. But it's not, I'm sorry. We have RIGHTS. You do not. And you people are never going to improve your situation until you understand the difference.


>it's just a peice of paper

Yeah, so is money.

>>125247
>Okay, but do you appreciate it is so merely because this is being granted by you?
The constitution specifically states that these rights are not granted by the government, they are inalienable.

The constitution doesn't actually grant me anything.

It restricts my government from taking away my inalienable rights.

That's the trick, limiting the power of the federal government.

>>124887
Looking the other way and given illegal aliens any kind of leeway is open borders. You can lie to yourself and propose otherwise, but that's reality. Giving a bunch of illegals special status to evade the law just because they popped out an anchor baby is open borders nonsense.

You can't inject nuance into everything. You can't pretend your positions aren't what the practical applications of those positions are. Anything resembling amnesty for the millions of illegals in America is porous open border policy.

>>124880
Why is it a bad thing our immigration policy is geared to accept the .05% of the gifted again? How exactly are you coming to the conclusion that poor illegals in the US remaining illegal and facing deportation is in any way a lack of meritocracy?

I'm not about to have any sympathy for a class of people who knowingly broke the law because they felt they were owed a position in the US and because the American left's race infatuation necessitates large growth in minority populations in order for their shitty ideas to gain traction or because corporatist rightwingers hate unions and paying people living wages. I'm done being swayed by sob stories.

>>125254
>Europeans think America is just as shitty their home. But it's not, I'm sorry. We have RIGHTS. You do not. And you people are never going to improve your situation until you understand the difference.
Man... please stop memeing about Europe.
Wages here are fucking high.
Quality of life is awesome.
There's a fucking abyss between here and the US.

I have been to both, and would never trade my town centre with one of your malls.

>We have RIGHTS
>you do not
Man, let me show a link to a constitution.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/201601010000/101.pdf

Have a read of chapter one.
Does it look like we have no rights?

You will find there the right to own property.

What I am trying to tell you, is that such rights exist only as long as people (and those they vote for) believe they exist... and since human mind is volatile, you need a strong foothold to uphold them and have your own standards respected.

>>124964
How is being deported not a punishment fit for those who've broken immigration laws?

>>125258
>The constitution specifically states that these rights are not granted by the government, they are inalienable.
>The constitution doesn't actually grant me anything.
>It restricts my government from taking away my inalienable rights.
>That's the trick, limiting the power of the federal government.

Okay, but that's a meme. Your constitution might delude you into thinking there is "something" beyond it... but that's just Platonic philosophy (as in: "ideas exist beyond the minds who think of them").

Your constitution might make whatever statement about nature you want... but it is just language. Just because your constitution says so, it does not make it so.

Your constitution is a projection of your minds (or the minds of those who drafted and amended it). You can delude yourself into thinking that your Constitution is superior to the government that enforces it...
...but as soon as you will have your "rights" trampled, you will realize how things really stand.

>>125207
Being able to state what you mean with brevity and succinctness is the mark of someone who knows what they're talking about and can construct a convincing argument around that.

>>125266
>How is being deported not a punishment fit for those who've broken immigration laws?
Not the same dude, but I do not think it is a proportional punishment in most scenarios.

We are not talking of people who have just crossed. Rather, we are talking of people who, for all practical purposes, were allowed to settle and live, and join in families, and work, and increase the American GDP.

If punishments were foreshadowed, they were not properly enforced, thus creating a situation exactly as the one I described here >>125267, i.e. things are crimes only when someone decides they are.

Hence, these people who trespassed have been swindled for years, even decades, into thinking their status was somewhat accepted.

And now you go back and you say:
>all previous management was wrong
>everyone who was allowed to do this and that so far is not any more
>everyone must go home, regardless of the time spent here

WTF is this retroactive justice? Fuck off.

>>125269
>Being able to state what you mean with brevity and succinctness is the mark of someone who knows what they're talking about and can construct a convincing argument around that.

>has no arguments against me
>attacks the *way* I express my own arguments
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is somebody with functional illiteracy who is on a words-only board /news/ and cannot stand things that are too long to be read.

TL;DR:
>text too long
>your opinion is wrong
Clap clap, you 13 y.o. kiddo.

>>125271
Notice how that guys post was quick and to the point

But yours is just pure REEEE

Are you the same guy who complained that Americans are always asking you, "whats your point?"

That should be a red flag, genius.

>>125270
"We," didn't allow anyone to settle and live or any of that crap. Americans were always against the idea of illegal immigration, it's the political class on both the left and right that wanted it for various reasons. And now the public has made the political class listen and listen hard to their thoughts on this issue. Even in California the idea of something like sanctuary cities has a 70%+ disapproval rating.

Giving the 12+ million illegal aliens in the US special rights because the corrupt officials that were in charge when they broke the law decided to look the other way is a perfect way to undermine and subvert our immigration laws. These people have known for years they were not in anyone's good graces. Having lived in Las Vegas for many years I can say that with certainty. Every single election the topic of immigration pops up with heated rhetoric. These people can't claim ignorance when they knowingly broke the law and when American society has quite clearly grappled with this topic many times in the past few years. They were betting on the Democrats keeping the gravy train open and they lost. That's it.

>>125264
have fun being raped and bombed by mudslimes :^)

>>125264
You don't have the most fundamental right: freedom of expression

Can you deny the holocaust? No. So don't tell me about your "rights."

>>125267
>money is just a peice of paper man its worthless dude

>>125273
>REEEE
What meme is this?

>>125279
Gtfo

>>125274
>Americans were always against the idea of illegal immigration,
SAUCE 1: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html
SAUCE 2: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584
TL;DR (for you idiots who cannot read more than 5 lines of text): they are literally a resource for your country.

>>125275
>have fun being raped and bombed by mudslimes :^)
My country is safe.

>>125276
>You don't have the most fundamental right: freedom of expression
Did you even read Chapter 1 here:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/201601010000/101.pdf

>>125277
>>money is just a peice of paper man its worthless dude
In fact, what gives it worth are people belief in the fact it represents some credit you are currently enjoying.
As long as people stop believing in those pieces of papers (e.g. due to hyper-inflation), the game is over.

Same goes for right. In a different time and context, when people will stop believing and behaving as you are, your rights will disappear completely.

>>125276
>Can you deny the holocaust? No. So don't tell me about your "rights."
Mein Kampf is fully publisheable throughout Europe.

Don't confuse
>you don't have freedom of expression
With
>people will be pissed off at you if you say so

>>125285
Firstly, I don't care if they're a resource. Fracking for oil and burning coal are American resources too and I want nothing to do with either of them for very good reasons. Secondly, that article is over a decade old.

It's curious how you also ignored that illegal immigration is very unpopular, even in states like California where you'd expect the public to embrace things like sanctuary cities designed to help that end, yet they resoundingly don't.

http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/09/04/igs-poll-californians-oppose-sanctuary-city-flexibility/

The American public, even the left-leaning in a state with massive populations of Latin Americans, was never in favor of illegal immigration. It was always something rich Republicans and racist Democrats wanted.

>>125285
>My country is safe
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266208/week-terror-and-diversity-europe-daniel-greenfield
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-london-attack-20170323-story.html
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/382011-london-terrorist-attack-parliament/
https://www.rt.com/news/382177-terror-threat-europe-warzones/
Nah, that's just FAKE NEWS, embrace diversity and multiculturalism you sheeple cattle goyim, nothing to see here. :^)

>>125285
Can you deny the holocaust or not?

Does your country have any laws restricting "hate speech"

Fuck off, it's clear you're backpedaling now.

>your rights aren't real someday they might disappear

What are you even trying to say

>>125291
You're not answering the question.

So it's clear holocaust denial is illegal in your country.

Faggot ass trying to pretend you have rights. You don't know the meaning of the term.

>>125291
Mein Kampf isn't even a holocaust denial book.

You people don't understand that Americans have MORE RIGHTS than you. It's not even debatable. You're just totally ignorant because you call your bullshit "rights" and you just assume we're the same.

>>125292
>Firstly, I don't care if they're a resource.
Man, you used their money for decades and now you're kicking them out.
If I remember correctly, the point we started debating was:
>is deportation a punishment proportional to the offence
Well, fuck no if you enjoyed their welfare payments and gave little back. Now you're kicking them out.

>>125294
>many articles
>frontpagemag
>latimes being a good sauce on Europe
Man, it's not fake news, but you need to rely on Bureau of Statistics.

News is not fake. What is fake is that they give high visibility to phenomena that are statistically irrelevant.
Talking violent crimes, most European countries are way safer than the USA (generally considered). Of course, I'm still aware some areas of the USA are even safer than Europe.

Your sources is a bit like the anti-gun arguments.
If you tell anti-guns that mass shootings are not a problem, they will flood you with articles... but you can always reply they are statistically insignificant.

Now tell me: have you ever been to Europe?
The meme here is Americans will land thinking it is a war zone or something like that. ROTFL

>>125304
I never wanted to use their money. That's something you're not getting. The public has never wanted large scale illegal immigration to happen, it was the corrupt powers in place that allowed it to happen for the benefit of their donors and political friends.

You can't show up at someone's door, let yourself into their home, use their stuff, make yourself at home, and then proclaim after a few months "I'm staying permanently," just because you pitched in with some rent money. The American public never wanted them here to begin with and we're not going to be extorted into giving them special rights because the corrupt let them in anyway.

>>125304
Okay now I can tell you're just a fucking JIDF shill who is trying to brainwash me into accepting Muslim refugees and illegals in order to ensure the destruction of my race and my heritage. The white race does not need low-IQ subhuman in its territory.

So fuck off, kike, go back to watching Seinfeld and tricking other stupider goyim into race-mixing and committing cultural genocide.

>>125295
>What are you even trying to say
I am trying to go back to my first point: >>124705
My early point was:
>it is intriguing to notice Americans have an entire legal system that sees the movement of people as tantamount to criminal offence, whereas there are many countries in which it is seen as just a breach of civil law and which are faring pretty well despite not having the same system as America.

>>125297
>So it's clear holocaust denial is illegal in your country.
There is no law stating "holocaust denial is illegal here".

I offered you a clear-cut example: Mein Kampf is publishable. Holy shit we even had party members showing up at the Parliament with t-shirts that were regarding as "seriously offensive" by the (albeit little) Muslim community.

And no one blinked an eye.

Please, take all of your European memes and try to get some serious sauce.

>>125300
>You people don't understand that Americans have MORE RIGHTS than you
Lol, I have the right not to be killed as the result of a court sentence.

Say, can you make a list and compare how right you have with how right I do have.

Do you have right to free education? LOL
Do you have right to free healthcare? LOL

>>125304
this guy is really trying to say that illegal immigrants are good for the economy

hold on

*catches breath*

AHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

*out of breath*

*laughing silently*

*passes out*

*dreams of laughter*

*wakes up*

what happened?

*remembers what happened*

*catches breath*

HAHAHAHAHA AHA HA HA A A HA HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAAHA

>>125308
>You can't show up at someone's door, let yourself into their home, use their stuff, make yourself at home, and then proclaim after a few months "I'm staying permanently," just because you pitched in with some rent money. The American public never wanted them here to begin with and we're not going to be extorted into giving them special rights because the corrupt let them in anyway.
This is the notorious
>countries are like households
>consequently, what is true of a household must be true for an entire country
Ever heard of qualitative difference?

>>125316
>Okay now I can tell you're just a fucking JIDF shill who is trying to brainwash me into accepting Muslim refugees and illegals in order to ensure the destruction of my race and my heritage. The white race does not need low-IQ subhuman in its territory.
Lol. Labels again.
It must be some pol-tier autism showing up.
>muh duh... I need to label this person, otherwise I won't be able to make him fit into my worldview
Lol

>>125320
>this guy is really trying to say that illegal immigrants are good for the economy
No.
I'm trying to claim you have exploited them so far.
And now you kick them out.

How is this even rational, considering all your "values"?

>>125317
>My early point was:
>it is intriguing to notice Americans have an entire legal system that sees the movement of people as tantamount to criminal offence, whereas there are many countries in which it is seen as just a breach of civil law and which are faring pretty well despite not having the same system as America.
That's not a point. It's an observation based on ignorance.


>There is no law stating "holocaust denial is illegal here".
You're full of shit. I didn't ask if a law specifically says "holocaust denial is illegal here." What the fuck kind of legalese is that.

Holocaust denial is illegal in the following countries

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Israel
Italy
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Slovakia
Spain
Switzerland
The EU as well

If you live in any of these places, you do not have free speech.

>>125317
>You people don't understand that Americans have MORE RIGHTS than you
Lol, I have the right not to be killed as the result of a court sentence.

Say, can you make a list and compare how right you have with how right I do have.

Do you have right to free education? LOL
Do you have right to free healthcare? LOL

The part of your post makes it explicitly clear you don't have or understand rights. What you have are privilleges.

Rights are guarantees. They cannot be removed.
Education?
Healthcare?
These cannot be guaranteed. In fact, they require a human to perform labor on your behalf. How can that possibly be a right?

It cannot. You see. Dumb fucking European.

>>125321
It's a proper analogy. Once more, the American public never wanted large swathes of its society to comprise of illegal aliens kept in legal limbo between legal status and deportation for the benefit of racist leftwingers looking to import voters and moneygrubbing rightwingers wanting to pay peanuts for hard labor. Giving the 12 million illegals in the US a legal avenue would undermine out immigration laws and create a whole new divide between them and the immigrants who did it legally, whom I might add, outnumber these illegals heftily.

Whatever benefit this illegal community brings to the US is irrelevant. The American people never wanted it and now that the Democrats have been cratered and the Republicans have been turned upside down they're finally listening to what the public has been saying on this matter for a very long time.

I'm sorry they were exploited by scumbags, racists, and cheapskates. I'm sorry they were led to believe they would be fine by corrupt politicians looking to build shallow voting blocs with their children. I'm sorry they pitched in for the benefit of lying assholes. But, the American public never wanted them to do any of that. It never wanted a part in that shitty deal and it owes these people nothing in that context.

>>125322
WE'VE EXPLOTED THE ILLEGAL ALIENS?

You asshole, this is too funny for my shields to absorb.


*instant death*

>>125326
>American public never wanted large swathes of its society to comprise of illegal aliens
Even immigrants don't want more immigrants coming here

why would they...

>>125330
It's pretty obvious why they're against it. They left these places to get to the US with a lot of expenditure of resources. The last thing they want is to have the US morph into the place they left. That and they don't want to be associated with illegals and the stereotypes that follow them around.

That's not even a uniquely American phenomenon either since the UK's immigrant population was a lot more receptive to the Leave campaign than the conventional wisdom of the political establishment would admit to.

>>125327
The idea that they're being exploited is just reason to kick them out. Isn't that the rational position for a liberal?

>>125338
Either they're being exploited or they're exploiting US

They need to go back. Maybe they can come back in, but they have to go back.

>>124377
If you break the law, then you get punished? Because laws make perfect sense in the macro? Because noone likes getting a DUI, but if they didn't pull your license more people would drive drunk and get killed?

Life isn't about perfect solutions. It's about macro level concessions. Pros and cons. And they are illegal and therefore they get deported.

They also raped a minor and that, in my opinion, earns them a one way ticket to their respective countries supermax.

You accuse people who have concern for their kids and country as brainwashed? Fuck you. You're welcome to have any random strangers sleep in your house and see what happens. Not everyone is a decent person, and that you don't see that makes you an inane fuckwad.

>>125358
I'm not defending the rapists you opinionated know nothing. The discussion deviated to the more general topic of immigration. You're not even answering the question posed in the post you quote. You seem like some stupid ass teenager with way too much to say but a complete inability to concentrate on anything of relevance. I ask why immigration law needs to be so severe and your response is essentially an explanation why law, in general, must exist.

You are the definition of a moron.

>>125320
*teleports behind you*

Psshh, nothin personnel...Kid.

>>125320
>illegal immigrants are good for the economy
In the large scheme of things the ones that are already here don't particularly effect it, no. I mean if you're claiming that they have a severe negative impact. It's smaller areas with concentrated populations of illegals that see an impact.

>>125327
>WE'VE EXPLOTED THE ILLEGAL ALIENS?
yes....I-is this actually a point of contention?

Yes we have totally exploited illegal aliens. Of course we have, without any doubt we as a nation have exploited them.

>>125372
If you don't have something original to say, don't say anything at all. Reddit refugees like you are destroying this website.

>>125375
>uh well I.... yes you see... depending on certain factors,,, maybe smaller area? could be

>>125378
OH NO THE POOR ILLEGALS ALIENS (most of whom are on welfare) SOMEBODY HELP THEM OH NOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAH wtf

>>125378
It seems you lack education.....illegal immigrants?? Exploited in a country they choose to forcefully go in illegally?? WaaaaaaaaUuuuuu

>>125274
Sections of America have always been against immigration in general, legal or otherwise. The strange and exotic scares them if they aren't in stringent control of its flow either through barter or purchase. On one side many claim this is the only way to preserve American values and American life, this has always and without fail always been the alarmist drivel of the xenophobic. The way you go on and on about how they're flooding over the border, taking over whole demographics and changing the landscapes you'd think illegals aliens were some enormous section of the population and not the 5% that they are.

Illegal immigrants are disenfranchised they cannot effect or greatly influence legal change. The men that agree that the law need be enforced, that disagree with sanctuary cities or that wholeheartedly believe these men and women should have entered the USA legally do so because they have an ingrained habit of listening to authority. Of belief in fairness and a fair deal and an ignorance of systematic abuse to themselves or others. They do not realize what the legal method implies.

(CONT)

>>125397
(CONT)

They do not understand that it strips these people of decades of life and in most cases does not permit them legal entry at all under any pretext whatsoever. For many there never was a legal method of entry. You surely consider this fine, I consider it unjust. I consider it unjust because individuals should be judged by their own merits not subject to cronyism and nepotism. The have-nots should always have a method of improving their lot in life and if not provided with one the powers that be and the people that support them should have no room to complain when they forego the established system.

In the current predicament of illegals in this country it has become a matter of the punishment no longer fitting the crime. A lack of adherence to bureaucratic norms resulting in the total loss of all property, residence, family, friends and community. And no sir, their lack of citizenship both in the eyes of the Supreme Court of these United States and the eyes of the VERY LORD almighty god does not deprive them rights. It is you and your populist mob that would do so. That mob and its ability to strip the rights from men is the very reason that this nation is not and should never be a democracy.

>>125385
They're not entitled to welfare dingus. They don't have SSN's.

>>125392
Illegal entry in no way negates the ability to be exploited.

>>125384
Are you stupid or something? They're a tiny part of the economy, they have to be concentrated to negatively affect communities and be of statistical relevance to the economy as they control very little capital. Otherwise they would have no serious impact.

>>125382
*grabs you by the neck*

BACK THE FUCK OFF?

>>125401
You're a really stupid peice of shit haha

http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households

>62% of illegal immigrants recieve welfare

>SIX TEE TOO PERCENT

>>125406
The almost interesting thing about meme kids is they seem unaffected by their lack of originality. Perhaps they embrace it. It must be on the cuckold spectrum somewhere.

>>125407
That welfare is given to their children, the anchor babies, you know, the AMERICAN citizens.

That's how you get it, you can't even get food stamps without a SSN fucktard.

>>125408

i'm going to strap a spear to my dong and harpoon that poon all night long if you're nice you can lick the batter off the sticks when i'm done

>>125404
>are you stupid or something? They're tiny and uh things would have to be to relevant marginalized

make a fucking point

"there's only a little bit of them"

So what? You're admitting that they're bad for the economy in the most mealy mouthed way possible it's disgusting.

>>125411
You don't even have to courage to try making an original joke

on the internet

do you get sweaty even from copying and pasting?

>>125409
I don't care how illegal aliens receive welfare. I don't care how billionaires get welfare either.

All this abused needs to end.

>>125412
They're only bad because they're illega not as a consequence of being lazy welfare queens or anything inherent to their being, the way they're bad is that they get exploited and get paid slave wages thereby driving down wages, this only happens at appreciable levels though where they're a large portion of the population.

>>125415
>I don't care how illegal aliens receive welfare
They don't though AMERICAN CHILDREN are. Housing and financial aid are almost universally rejected by illegals. Its material aid programs like WIC that supply american children with diapers and formula that they sign on with.

>>125417
You're full of crap. Illegal immigrants can recieve welfare directly. You can claim dependants in OTHER COUNTRIES.

This is fucking bullshit and even in your own post you admit

>Housing and financial aid are almost universally rejected by illegals
>almost

So you admit that they sometimes can receive that sort of aid.

>>125416
>They're only bad because they're illega not as a consequence of being lazy welfare queens or anything inherent to their being
Ah a point. But I disagree. They are illegal and that's why they need to get deported. Many of them are also lazy and criminal that's why they're bad for the economy. Different issues. My racism has nothing to do with justice OR what's good for America.

You also underestimate the level of illegal aliens we're dealing with. The best numbers are something like 30 MILLION. That's a fucking lot of people driving down wages.

It is significant. And it's fucked up that they have to go, but they still have to go.

>>125418
>You're full of crap.
No U

>that they
>they

No, the aid goes to the children. The guardians only receive it as long as the child is under 18 and part of the school system. It is still the American individual receiving it just in a round about fashion you don't like.

>>125421
You're lying.

>>125423
No, you're lying and what's more are completely out of touch .Even something as rudimentary as food stamps require drivers licenses, second form ID and SSN's. To tell me that a bunch of illegals are jumping through hoops and passing with flying colors is insane. If you don't believe me go do it yourself. It's also why your source uses tricky language, notice its use of "any form of welfare" and "immigrant households". It's positively predisposed to report that illegals are moochers as even the aforementioned diapers and formula would qualify them as recipients of welfare and without context it seems really bad.

>>125424
Are you really trying to tell me that illegals can't get food stamps

here's my face -_-

>>125425
Go get it yourself and see what they ask you. For shits and giggle tell them you're an illegal and have no papers of any kind. Lets see you get that paper.

>>125420
They are economically a net benefit for the government as they give far more in taxes than they recieve paying for what few benefits are open to them many times over (https://www.scribd.com/doc/295271995/THE-900-BILLION-QUESTION-A-Complete-Fiscal-Analysis-Of-Donald-J-Trump-s-Immigration-Reform-Plan).

However their illegality should be of little consequence unless you are, like yourself, a racist. If most people understood what came with adherence to the law they would not support any measure that seeked to strip illegals of home and family. Most firmly believe you simply sign some paperwork, take some pictures, get your biometrics done, wait a few months maybe a couple of years and in you go. They don't understand that entering illegaly was the only method of entry for most and that deporting them now defacto denies them their lives.

I agree that being violently criminal is sufficient reason to deprive someone of their accumulated property as this is done independently of their motivations for entering illegally. Laziness should also be punished but I believe society in and of itself does a good enough job of that without the government needing to get involved. This said I cannot agree that they, as an whole, have to or need to go. I do believe the law needs to be changed and I hope Trump or his successor changes it.

>>125426
It would be easier for me to get food stamps if I did tell them I was illegal. Because then they would even consider my income when determining my eligibility.

It's like money earned by illegal aliens is considered 0 dollars. lol. nice trick for the illegals, DOES NOT WORK for Taxpayers.

http://cis.org/An-Aid-Program-that-Routinely-Discriminates-in-Favor-of-Ineligible-Aliens

>>124104
Why is that white privladged 14 year old bitch oppressing those 2 minorities. I can't believe this.

>>125429
Isn't that entire site dedicated to making immigrants look bad?

>>125428
>They are economically a net benefit for the government
How can that be when 62% of them recieve welfare?

That minority of illegal immigrants must be working their asses off and donating money to the IRS

come on man this is a joke. it's insulting to the Americans that support these people to the detriment of their own kids.

>>125433
>How can that be when 62% of them recieve welfare?

Read the analysis.

>>125432
No, immigrants just look bad when you do the math. It's not the website's fault.

>>125435
Oh, so it is just biased, disregarded ~

>>125433
Receiving some sort of welfare does not mean you are perpetually paid for by the government.Again, your source uses tricky language to skew opinion and the numbers to a presupposed conclusion.

>>125438
Wow your denial of basic math actually triggered me

8/10 I am fucking MAD right now hahaha

>>125441
You sound happy.

>>125442
Let's meet irl

>>125444
Wer u at bruh?

>>125448
Give me your address, I'll bring you a "sandwich."

>>125455
Fuck that lets meet up at Brugada on the other side of the river. Maybe we'll fug cuz ur such a nice gal.

>>124104
goddamn you cut off that story just when it was getting to the good part

>>125397
>>125399
I don't care. I really don't. I know precisely that enforcing a solid border means doing things that will make lily-livered leftwingers cry or shout xenophobe more than they already do. Given the public hasn't come around on this issue even after the stupid shit involving hiding in churches I doubt they will. It's not just a bureaucratic adherence to authority to enforce proper immigration laws. Someone could just as easily take your framing of the issue as such to be nothing more than antipathy for legal authority and it wouldn't benefit the discussion anymore than the insinuation you're making here.

I'm never going to buy your excuse that people should have an easy express lane into the US or the moral imperative to break immigration laws in light of obstructions that keep them from it. Not everyone is owed a spot in the US. That's reality. Drumming up sob stories of individuals who feel entitled to American status and are willing to break the law to get it isn't going to change my opinion either. Individuals should be judged on their own merits, and if they had to break the law to get where they are now then I will judge them as the criminals they are.

>>125338
>The idea that they're being exploited is just reason to kick them out. Isn't that the rational position for a liberal?
The other rational position is:
>since we exploited them, it is time to give them amnesty altogether
>Stricter rules will apply from now on, but as far as current illegals are concerned, they shouldn't be kicked out
>>125335
>That's not even a uniquely American phenomenon either since the UK's immigrant population was a lot more receptive to the Leave campaign than the conventional wisdom of the political establishment would admit to.
Been to OZ last year.
Many Greeks, who became Aussies after migrating there, are now far-right voters and hate Indians and the like.
It's the icing on the double standards' cake.

>>125358
>If you break the law, then you get punished? Because laws make perfect sense in the macro? Because noone likes getting a DUI, but if they didn't pull your license more people would drive drunk and get killed?
There should be a rule that says:
>if you commit a crime and the State didn't punish you even if it had the opportunity to do so, after X years your offence is cleared
It has a name. It is called "statute of limitations".
>>125358
>They also raped a minor and that, in my opinion, earns them a one way ticket to their respective countries supermax.
Yeah, but that's the PROBLEM, dude.
>young people were illegals
>they got allowed in an American school
>they committed a crime (not qua illegal, but qua assholes)
>they should be punished accordingly... in AMERICA
>they have to serve sentence in America, unless their country asks for extradition

>>125493
>we exploited them

What do you mean "we?"

Besides, they exploited my country.

>>125325
>Holocaust denial is illegal in the following countries
It is intriguing to notice Americans have an entire cultural system that sees the denial of the Holocaust as the ultimate truth that will tell whether or not your country is free and your population enjoy rights.
There are better means to detect the level of freedom in a country (and many international indexes to refer to). Yet... it seems it is Holocaust denialism that sets the threshold for everything.

You could be almost led to think that you cannot define yourself to be truly American if you do not deny the Holocaust every once in a while.

>Rights are guarantees. They cannot be removed.
Man, you live in a fantasy world. I am pretty sure you think rights will be there for you even if no one guarantees them and even if you don't fight for them.
>Education?
>Healthcare?
>These cannot be guaranteed. In fact, they require a human to perform labor on your behalf. How can that possibly be a right?
Now you're doing mental gymnastics and arguing semantics.
Of course the right is not "to be healthy". The right is properly called:
>access to healthcare
So now, according to your dumb-tard logic, rights are things that do not require human labour to be guaranteed.
Then what is self-defence.

Super-Ultra-LOL.

>>125496
>the denial of the Holocaust as the ultimate truth that will tell whether or not your country is free and your population enjoy rights

Close, pretty good for a European.

The right is the FREEDOM TO SPEAK about whatever the hell I want. It doesn't matter what it is, or who it bothers, I can say whatever I like about it.

>>125496
>>125496
>Of course the right is not "to be healthy". The right is properly called: access to healthcare

>Then what is self-defence

Ill clarify using your own words.

>Of course the right is not "to be safe". The right is properly called: right for persons to use defensive force

You could have done that yourself if you weren't so intellectually dishonest.

>>125397
>>125399
Basically, the quoted text is a humongous projection... in which the writer thinks he knows what other people have in mind.
>VERY LORD almighty god
Gave me a kek.

>>125401
>They're not entitled to welfare dingus. They don't have SSN's.
Yet they pay for it.
Also, many were able to access welfare by other means... and it is still negligible compared to how much they contributed to the GDP.
>>125404
>They're a tiny part of the economy
11 millions -- the fuck? It's a country the size of Belgium!
>>125407
As I said.
>>125409
Man, they access it indirectly.
They also get concession cards, bus discounts and sheit.
They also get gibs.
FFS America is so "free" that some of them even managed to get LEGAL State-issued driving licences because most States (at the time) didn't check for ID in order to make you sit the exam.

>>125412
>make a fucking point
Again, the Amerifat obsession with making points.
We're just chatting, dude. It's not that we have to spit out the 95 theses every time we type something on a keyboard.
People use language creatively. They share stories. They bond with others. They kek. They troll... Out of all the panoply of things you can do with language, you are asking us to make "points"? Hahahaha... you must be autistic or unable to comprehend a written text, because, as I saw, most of the people here are making points indeed.
>>125416
>and get paid slave wages thereby driving down wages,
Actually, there are studies that demonstrate that they don't really drive down wages, because we're talking of jobs citizens wouldn't do anyway.

>>125424
Literally, guise... Use Google:
https://www.google.it/search?q=how+do+illegal+immigrants+get+welfare&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=BTbXWIXhJaus8wfZ1IGICw

>>125495
>they exploited my country.
How so, considering they paid taxes and got less welfare than a normal citizen would be entitled to?

Aw... Now I see... You're talking Lebensraum.
The Living-Room (kek), i.e. the fact they're breathing your air, walking on a soil you think is yours... now I see... so that's their horrible crime... is this why you want people punished? Because they dared? Because they worked hard?

Aren't those migrants the quintessential American dreamers? I bet they uphold American values more than you do... because, so far, you have mostly spent time denying the holocaust (you, or the other anon, I mean) and upholding GERMAN values.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

P.S.: My captcha was in German.

>>125500
>Again, the Amerifat obsession with making points.
Oh okay that's cool, I guess I didn't think of it that way, perhaps one shouldn't criticize the way another types, we're just chattin lol, today i ate a fucking bowl of oatmeal, refugees are not even technically reguees by definition

>>125502
>they paid taxes and got less welfare than a normal citizen would be entitled to?
come on man

r u srs

>>125504
>come on man
REAL SAUCE:
[1] https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/economic-blame-game-immigration-and-unemployment
>There is no direct correlation between immigration and unemployment.
>Foreign-born and native-born workers do not generally compete for the same jobs.
>There is no correlation between immigration and minority unemployment.
>Immigration creates new jobs.
[2] http://itep.org/itep_reports/2017/03/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2.php
>Undocumented immigrants contribute significantly to state and local taxes, collectively paying an estimated $11.74 billion a year.[2] Contributions range from just over $550,000 in Montana with an estimated undocumented population of 1,000 to more than $3.1 billion in California, home to more than 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>Undocumented immigrants nationwide pay on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes (this is their effective state and local tax rate). To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent.
>Granting legal status to all undocumented immigrants in the United States as part of a comprehensive immigration reform and allowing them to work legally would increase their state and local tax contributions by an estimated $2.18 billion a year. Their nationwide effective state and local tax rate would increase to 8.6 percent.

This is literally a non-issue.

To go back to the main topic, offenders should be charged and punished in America as sex offenders, not qua illegal immigrants.

America allowed them in, allowed them to be minors in its territory. America did not take proper care of these minors she allowed in.
Such minors committed a crime. Now it is America's duty to repair, because minors should be tutored and protected even when they are criminals.

You don't just deport them as you please.

>>125505
>You don't just deport them as you please.
LOL

Illegal? Deported.

Illegal who committed a sex crime? Deported!

Illegal who have a baby? Deported :(

Illegal who have tricky anchor baby? Citizenship revoked due to bullshit. Double Deported!

>>125493
It's not a double standard if the Greeks there want to assimilate into Australia culture instead of change it the way Indian migrants do. There's nothing hypocritical about being a legal integrated immigrant loathing illegal or unpatriotic migrants just there for an economic backrub.

And I don't want the US wasting taxpayer money paying for another country's filth in our already overcrowded prison system. No thanks, that's a quick trip to making the US the Western Hemisphere's prison. Deport them.

>>125505
Fuck that noise. America wanted nothing to do with illegal immigration, it was the politicians and power brokers that looked the other way. America owes them nothing. They want handouts they can hound the specific assholes who made it their unofficial policy to let the border get so porous and then they can fuck off back to their own countries.

At least they didn't gangrape her and livestreamed it on facebook with a crowd watching like those niggers did in Chicago right?
At least she wasn't kidnapped and pissed on and partially scalped by a pack of niggers did in Chicago right?
At least she wasn't cornered and trapped in a laundry room and filmed as migrants raped her like in Twin Falls Idaho right?
At least she wasn't raped in her own bed by a migrant chanting allahu akbar in North Dakota right?
At least she didn't have to watch her boyfriend get tortured and killed by a pack of niggers before they raped her and cut her to pieces in Knoxville right?

>>125488
To call someone a criminal carries with it a series of connotations. The more you use it the more it will become meaningless similar to the way racist, sexist and xenephobe have all lost some of their public sting. In this case drumming up the fact that their criminality can be called into question by people in positions of authority does not take away from the fact that the crime they are guilty of is a lack of adherence to bureaucratic protocols. It literally is why they are illegal regardless of what you think of it. You have set up a bureaucracy called the immigration system and they have failed to follow the established protocols. As a result of that you deem it proper and just to entirely and completely strip them of the aforementioned things; home, family, property, friends and community. You do this because you are as a matter of fact racist and xenophobic.

I do not say this to make light of the law as a concept, I say this because the law is patently wrong in this circumstance and has itself merited its own abolition and complete replacement. It is wrong because these people have in actuality and as a matter of fact established homes, families, friends, bought property and made themselves part of their communities over years and decades and since they are in fact guilty of bureaucratic noncompliance and since I cannot justify such a harsh measure for other similar instances I cannot justify this measure.

(CONT)

>>125520
The logic follows quite simply sir. This would be like stipping the very existence of another person for driving without a license, or building without a permit. Fines, community service, jail time, all of the above. Understandable maybe even warranted but in this case. If they are not violent, if they otherwise have obeyed the letter of the law to the greatest degree possible given their situation, if they work and earn their own way, how the devil can you sit there and call yourself in any way a decent human being if you would strip them all and in their totality of the whole of their amassed life?


This is not a matter of being left winged. It is foolish to even consider this. I believe wholeheartedly in the constitution, I believe in the bill of rights, I believe it is the duty of every American to be armed as well as is able and be prepared to fight tyranny and despotism in whatever despicable form it rears its ugly head. I believe life starts at conception and abortion is a grievous sin and I believe we should fight against foreign influence that would see our liberties torn asunder. But I cannot fathom the level of foolishness, pettiness and sheer dogmatic selfishness it takes to so completely strip your fellow man of their fair toil. To see them cast out of the space they have made for themselves at no provable and demonstrable cost to you.

(CONT)

>>125521

The law as a general principle should be followed but if its adherence means the that one must do evil, morally repugnant things then the law must be changed, it must change sir it has a moral imperative to change. If it pushes the already powerless into total disenfranchisement that renders them even more prone to abuse and exploitation with no voice with which to plea for mercy from those in authority, it must change. This is not a matter of left and right, this is and has always been a matter of human decency and to deny this central, this one definitive truth requires the highest caliber of dishonesty to both yourself and the rest of the world. Indeed one that I simply cannot fathom. The law must never be blindly followed and we should always, ALWAYS ask ourselves what the punishment entails in its totality and if the offence committed merits that punishment. For the rights enshrined by our founding fathers were never the rights of Americans but the rights of all men that live under our banner.

(end)

>>125510
>America wanted nothing to do with illegal immigration
45% approval and dropping since day one faggot

Never got the popular vote

The candidate that was lax on immigration did

Trumpo and his band of immigrant hating retards never had a public mandate that you or anyone thinks they ever did is laughable

>>125488
>Given the public hasn't come around on this issue
Most people are in favor of a path to citizenship for the people that are already here though. They just want more border protection because the cartels and human traffickers are constantly pulling shenanigans.

>>125523
>let in billions of immigrants

>democrats win the popular vote!

funny how that works. seems kinda like cheating tbh.

>>125525
They can't vote

and as of yet you trumpcucks still haven't proven that they did in a systematic fashion

>>125525
>billions
kekekekeke

>>125523

Look at this moron that still thinks it was the 'popular vote' that American elections and campaigns were designed around.

Bet you think that the powers that be took the popular vote into account when deciding to fundamentally alter demographics in the welfare states of western Europe too, right? Hahahahahahaha

>>125527
funny how liberals don't discriminate between illegal aliens and immigrants.

such open minded

>>125509
>There's nothing hypocritical about being a legal integrated immigrant loathing illegal or unpatriotic migrants just there for an economic backrub.
Here's the problem, the legal method is the one that incentivizes economic migration. Illegal immigrants might start that way but really they earn a miserable salary and although by their home nations standards they might earn decent maybe even better than decent money they don't live there they live here, so I suppose I've never really gotten that excuse that they're "just here for money and to send money back home". I mean surely that might be a motivator but given their average living conditions and earned wages that certainly can't be the only reason. On the other hand if you look at skilled migrant and business visas they are solely money oriented. I mean it's business after all and those two are the easiest, quickest way to become a legal migrant and eventually permanent resident. I however don't see you hating them.

>unpatriotic migrants

Really hate those tbh but given the current climate I can't say I fully blame those unable to differentiate the state from the nation.

>>125530
I know it isn't

The whole point was that Trump thought he had a mandate for change

That most people thought and think like he does

That the people had given him a mandate to change the course

When in reality most people don't want him in the white house

In fact most people preferred and corrupt evil succubus witch over him

So again, no
>America wanted nothing to do with illegal immigration

Is bullshit

We are not Trump and this election proved nothing but the contrary, we want the issue resolved and not through mass deportations

>>125533
Oh I do. I absolutely despise foreign real estate sharks, H1B visa abusers, etc. I'm totally in favor of making it harder for anyone who comes to the US intending to stay simply for the sake of economic means. If the US is to remain a stable country with working safety nets it needs to be more than just an arbitrary market in the dirt.

Those unpatriotic migrants are part of the reason the current climate exists. Look at the sheer amount of Mexican irredentism in the American Southwest for example. These people wave Mexican flags at rallies designed to garner sympathy for illegal immigrants while burning American flags and telling everyone the US was never great in their myopic take that approach to their own strawman arguments. Look at the amount of young Asian Americans, who are as a group better off than even Whites, pile on with the identity politics and portray themselves as victims for the sake of hitting at acceptable targets. There's a shit load of these not just unpatriotic migrants in the US, but outright hostile ones too.

>>125523
>>125536
Shut the fuck up. You're conflating the approval rating for an idiotic buffoon with the policies he espouses support for. Not liking Trump has nothing to do with approving massive illegal immigration. Again, see >>125292. Sanctuary cities as an example are overwhelmingly unpopular everywhere, even in California.

>>125543
>Not liking Trump has nothing to do with approving massive illegal immigration
Its never been massive tho ~

>>125550
dis guy

>>125553
(-:~ 5% ~ :-)

>>125554
that's a massive number ma`am

>>125556
not really man it's

FIVE
I
V
E

>>125556
That's what you wish she said.

>>125557
It's 5%, which massive percentage.

Imagine if 5% of your fingers/toes were missing

You would have to rely on your face to scare children.

>>125560
>He can't type with 9 toes
pleb

>>125497
You can't say you want to kill the president of America. Doesn't even matter if you really plan to, it's a criminal offense. You Americans don't have freedom of speech as well

The real issue I see with illegal immigration is that solely by managing to cross the border they already did more to deserve citizenship due to meritocracy than someone who just happened to randomly be born in the USA. I think illegal immigrants should be deported, but in the spirit of justice everyone born in the USA should have to take a citizenship test when they hit 18 or be deported.

>>125656
Good plan.

>>124299
Naw I agree with that guy too. I used to this k people didn't like Muslims due to blind racism but now I do work for a lot of them. They're shit. I do t want them here. If they commit crimes why the hell would you keep them here?

>>125649
An American celebrity just made a music video where he pretended to shoot the President.

Why do you have such an issue with this? Every country has their specialty, and Americas is liberty.

>>125656
>meritocracy
Does robbing a liquor store because you don't want to pay for the goods or are too lazy to make money the hard way represent meritocracy to you too? Does skipping out on paying taxes count as a meritocracy to you? I know you're one of those silly people who've been conditioned to view any kind of patriotic kinship as an icky toxic problematic and gross thing, but that line of thinking is fucking retarded, even by that standard.

>>125692
Not that anon, but I think there are plenty of people born in the US who don't share your idea of patriotic kinship, have no love for the country, its people, its history, and are indifferent to as well as ignorant of its governance.

Do you consider birthright more american than the person who moved their entire life to the US because they loved what it is and what it could be, not because of what they could take from it?

>>125508
>LOL
>Illegal? Deported.
>Illegal who committed a sex crime? Deported!
>Illegal who have a baby? Deported :(
>Illegal who have tricky anchor baby? Citizenship revoked due to bullshit. Double Deported!

That's inherently wrong.

You are forgetting your duty to protect minors, which is a basic thing stated by the UN as well.

Suppose you find a young boy, who wasn't possibly born in the US territory (or, if he was, was never registered). Are you going to kick him out just because?

I'll tell you what: as a collective community that shares *some* duties towards other human beings -- especially minors, and in particular minors who display criminal behaviour... it is NOT your duty to kick them out and wash your hands like Pontius Pilatus (who crucifixed Jesus F. Christ). Rather, you have the duty to take care of them as one of yours.

>illegal
>kicked out
Why waiting so long, anyway? WTF is this? A cold case?

>>125510
>America wanted nothing to do with illegal immigration, it was the politicians and power brokers that looked the other way.
I'm appalled at your double standards.
It seems to me that, so far, many anons here have defended the Constitution and the entire legal system, regardless of how well it was working.

I kept maintaining the opposite opinion -- i.e. the State is your adversary until proven otherwise, so you have to keep fighting for your rights because at the slightest whim of the élite they might be taken away from you.

Basically, I was saying:
>you have to keep fighting for what is right, because no piece of paper will automatically guarantee it and as long as you delegate, you run a serious risk

Now you come over here and say that the government and the law is wrong whenever they do something that does not please you...

...that's too easy, man. Too easy to refuse to acknowledge responsibility just because your rulers acted wrongly.

>>125524
>Most people are in favor of a path to citizenship for the people that are already here though.
Yet, so far, even though I claimed this was the best option, I have been attacked as:
>JIDF shill
>libtard
>liberatarian shill
>Trump man
>radical
>anarchist
And consider that was just an opinion!

>>125680
And Trump ordered an investigation, the only reason it's not definitely illegal is cause the guy in the video just looks like trump but is never started to be him.

>>125656
>The real issue I see with illegal immigration is that solely by managing to cross the border they already did more to deserve citizenship due to meritocracy than someone who just happened to randomly be born in the USA. I think illegal immigrants should be deported, but in the spirit of justice everyone born in the USA should have to take a citizenship test when they hit 18 or be deported.
Interesting plan, except for:
>where the fuck do you deport them?
It's not that other countries with entire different systems (legal and economic) are there waiting for Amerifats to knock at their door and say:
>hey, we got a bunch of idiots that do not deserve to stay here... could you please take them on board on our behalf?
Fucking kek.

Alternatively, suppose you manage to get a fucking deal from, say, Zimbabwe... 20 years into this program and it turns out Zimbabwe's GDP has grown a thousandfold.
TOP
FUCKING
KEK

>>125760
Because that's a lie. Most Americans are not in favor of amnesty for criminal aliens.

Especially not legal immigrants. You people take some poll in southern California and go LOOK THE COUNTRY LIKES TO BE MEXICO

We all know it's bullshit. See: the last election

>>125761
>And Trump ordered an investigation
that's a lie

Let me explain our freedom of speech: I can say whatever I like EXCEPT direct calls for violence (because that is not longer speech, but violence)

this is not like your laws. we have no "rudeness" laws or "hate speech" except our heavily European college gulags.

You are not going to win this debate because you are categorically wrong. Stfu already.

>>125520
>>125521
>>125522
good stuff

>>125765
>Most Americans are not in favor of amnesty for criminal aliens.
>criminal

No they're not, but illegals in general? Yeah, yeah they are. However they phrase it as a pathway to citizenship not a skip to the head of the line.

>See: the last election
See:
>>125536
>>125523

>>125762
>>hey, we got a bunch of idiots that do not deserve to stay here... could you please take them on board on our behalf?
Diversity is their strength. These people will be a boon to their economy and actually create jobs and wealth by existing. They will thank us.

>>124104
>El Savador
>Guatemala

Well what a surprise......

>>124244
>If any one of these immigrants commit a crime, the ENTIRE FAMILY is gone with no hope of traveling to America again.

North Korea also punishes whole families for a single persons transgressions against the state.
I agree if someone commits a major crime, they should probably be deported if they're here on a visa or really anything which isn't full citizenship but what you're suggesting is retard.

>>125829
>being sent home for breaking the rules

>"punished"

>>125756
I never implied anything of the sort. I never said the government or the law as wrong, I said corrupt politicians refused to enforce them regardless of the American people's will to have those laws enforced. You can't sit there and tell me because a corrupt class of elites ignored the law for twenty years to increasingly irate public sentiment that that public is now responsible for the actions of those corrupt officials they wanted nothing to do with in the first place. The illegals are an unfortunate byproduct of that, but they are not owed American legal status because those corrupt officials mislead them into believing that's what the American people wanted.

>>125780
>illegals in general
No they aren't. Americans are profoundly against them too. Take a look at how accepting people are of sanctuary cities or expansion of schools to accommodate them. Illegals are criminals by their very status of being an illegal alien.

>>124630
huh. every immigrant i've met is only here to make money and doesn't care about what the govt does. most just want to send money back home to strengthen their own economy. no pride in being Amercan, just pride that they successfully got in to begin siphoning money out.

your comment and argument (so-called) is invalidated.

oh and your cock-in-mouth comment about crime not pulling apart families, you shouldnt have said that. it proved you're talking out your ass and your carefully worded statement lost traction. you fooled no one.

>>124698
Sounds like Italy's law system is retarded

>>125996
that's every non-American country

literally

>>125997
even america has backward laws 21 amendment (on prohibition, and latter an illegal drug war(only congress can DOW)((that was really an attack on minorites, witinessed by discepentcies in sentencing)). Europa has some laws that seem to counter the noticion of freedom of indivuals for teh sake of the collective, Germany how do you lack free speech (1st)? uk why you spy on people but fail to act?(prove that uk spying system fails with lastest attacks but lack the will to do anything with it)((4th))

>vpn was dropped to post this mgs
possibility of political retaliation is increasing

>>126011
>even america has backward laws
So what? At least we have rights. That's the difference. No other country even comes close to our legal system.

You people aren't even allowed to speak freely.

Honestly the mental gymnastics Europeans make when discussing legal issues makes me more anti-immigration than the Spanish being taught in my schools.

None of you people get it. Just enjoy your communism and stay the fuck out of the civilized world. We will fight the wars, don't worry your pretty little heads.

>lets just ban all immigrants because of this.

>lets also ban all white people for all those school shootings.

dailymail is your source?
get a clue mate

>>124615
American legal immigrants commit a low percentage of crime than natives do. Refugees and illegals are whole different story.

>>126083
>American legal immigrants commit a low percentage of crime than natives do
this is a lie

we don't even have statistics because the government is hiding it

why would they do that????? lol

>>126075
White guy whataboutism abounds with people who have no arguments against those suggesting a curb to illegal immigration or a downturn to all of it in general.

>>126079
Shop around for another source if you want. It's been blasted all over TV the past week from many different sources.

Stop acting like a faggot disregarding sources just because you don't like the story. If your little search shows it's the only source then you have a point, but this kneejerk bullshit is counter-productive.

>>125922
>Illegals are criminals by their very status of being an illegal alien.
See:
>>125520
>>125521
>>125522
It shouldn't matter. Yes they're "technically" criminals but so are many people for minor offenses. You repeating that like some mantra doesn't make them more threatening you brainwashed oaf, it detracts from the impact.

>>125959
>every immigrant i've met
>your comment and argument (so-called) is invalidated

Translation:
>Because of my anecdotes your argument is entirely blown out of the water!! HAHA! Take THAT logic and reason! I win again!
>who needs statistics when I've met 12 people that fit this strereotype! amirite guys?

I don't even fully disagree but fuck man, you sound stupid as shit.

>>126229
Nah

>>126201
>suggesting a curb to illegal immigration or a downturn to all of it in general.
I think the biggest issue in this thread isn't stopping illegal immigration its retroactively punishing people who have peacefully lived in the united states for decades. You cite the rule of law as justification but when confronted with the fact that the punishment de facto carries with it overly harsh penalties given the original grievance for which individuals are charged you shrug it off, ignore it or outright revel in it suggesting you're petty racists just looking for a reason to shit on minorities and are in actuality not concerned with the law at all.

At least that's my biggest issue. I think the immigration system is completely broken and needs to be reformed from the ground up because with the current system we're not attracting the kinds of immigrants a nation should want and are now looking at an enormous bill if we get rid of the ones that decided to forego the system we created. So it was a lose lose.

But that's neither here nor there.

>>126230
Just saying anecdotal evidence is retarded, I could say I met 10 upstanding Somali refugees and have just as much weight to my argument

>>126229
And that is why I ignored him.

>>126228
>minor offenses
I don't consider illegal immigration a minor offense. If something as simple as not paying your taxes makes you a criminal and entitles you to nice lengthy stays at correctional facilities then knowingly breaking the United States sovereignty and immigration laws should come with a stipend of deportation.

And no, I do no fucking care about the fact the previous powers looked the other way and allowed it to happen. If for some reason the IRS stopped collecting taxes from a certain demographic for ten years to the increasingly loud protestations of everyone else, those people are not granted relief or excused from their crimes because a government finally comes into power that wants to rectify those mistakes.

>>126233
Retroactive punishment happens for a multitude of crimes and just because a government full of corrupt people let them continue to break the law doesn't mean they're exempt from that law once someone with the intention of enforcing it comes to power. Those people built their houses on sand thinking the building swell of anti-immigration sentiment in the American public wasn't going to amount to anything and the people in charge of decision making would continually allow their flagrant disregard for the law to happen for their own greedy personal gains.

Deportation for breaking immigration laws is not an overly harsh punishment and I can't fathom for one minute why anyone would consider it such.

>>125922
>Take a look at how accepting people are of sanctuary cities or expansion of schools to accommodate them.
About this just googled it. The polls seem to run the gamut from 80% all the way to 50%


That's a 30% difference.


That's retarded.

I call shenanigans and poll tempering.

>>126240
Yet you didn't post any of them for anyone to see what biases they might have or examine their methodologies. You just blanket stated they vary wildly and therefore the point is moot, largely I guess because you don't want to have that discussion given the outcome would not favor your ideas or the misconception they're as popular as you think they are.

Since you didn't post anything, here's a poll run from Berkeley's IGS that found overwhelmingly the American public does not like the idea of sanctuary cities.
http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/09/04/igs-poll-californians-oppose-sanctuary-city-flexibility/

>>126239
>I don't consider
Read the post in it's entirety and within context. I am not asking you to consider illegal immigration a major or minor crime I am asking you to understand the factual statement that you can be branded a criminal for any crime major or minor so repeating the fact that they are technically a criminal is just language you use to attempt to brainwash people and win an unwinnable moral argument when taken to its logical conclusion as ultimately this title of criminal does not communicate as much as you think it does. It does not automatically make them dangerous nor does it mean $900 billion needs to be spent tracking them all down, trying them and deporting them. The same title can be used for a wide range of offenses.

>just because a government full of corrupt people let them continue to break the law doesn't mean they're exempt from that law

The law is wrong in this case and is fundamentally unjust.

>their flagrant disregard for the law

You keep using similar phrasing when you don't understand its meaning or are intentionally misrepresenting them. The overwhelming majority of illegal aliens have lived peaceful law abiding lives, they are not gangsters that break the law at every opportunity because deportation has ALWAYS been a real possibility for all of them even under the ultra leninist leftist quasi soviet rule of Obama, in fact I'm not sure but I think deportations increased under him from the Bush years.

>Deportation for breaking immigration laws is not an overly harsh punishment and I can't fathom for one minute why anyone would consider it such.


I explained why in the posts I quoted, if you cannot even acknowledge it I assume you're just being obtuse out of fear of losing you're fictitious moral high ground of unjust laws. You are not simply deporting them, you are doing everything the punishment entails. You are stripping people of their entire lives that they have built and forcing them to start in a now foreign land.

>>126241
>Yet you didn't post any of them
Yes, it's all a leftist conspiracy! Drat, I was absolutely terrified someone might use Google! Foiled again.

I just said I googled it, you or anyone can do the same and no your link does nothing, it's still seriously weird that on the exact same subject polls are just all over the place. You don't need to be a leftist media cuck shill to see that.

>>126244
You're aware Berkeley is one of America's most leftwing universities right? You're aware the very city it's situated in is in fact a sanctuary city right? I posted that to show even when those on the furthest reaches of the left conduct polls the result is an American citizenry that overwhelming rejects the idea of sanctuary cities.

>>126242
I'm not trying to brainwash anyone. I'm not gunning for the side that redefines illegal alien into a compassionate term like "undocumented immigrant." If you want to draw a delineation between illegal aliens who conduct heinous crimes and those who don't then the onus is on you to clarify that with more specificity than simply using the label "criminals," especially when it applies to all of them.

I'm sure you're a wonderful lawyer and an even better judge given you've decided for yourself and the people who ignore our laws which ones are just and which ones aren't, which ones they should follow and which ones they shouldn't.

And no, Obama didn't deport more, he simply turned more away at the border and redefined it as deportation to soothe the increasingly irate public calling for action on this matter.

Those people built their lives on quicksand. They built them on the assumption America's elected leaders would never actually acquiesce to the public's demands. They built their lives thinking the Democratic gravy train was going to stay open regardless of what happened. They are not ignorant to the realities of this, they were simply betting on one party over the other and they lost. It is unfortunate they bought the lies and misleading ideas of the corrupt and it is unfortunate their personal lives will undergo turmoil because of that, but I simply do not care beyond that. If you buy into this now it allows anyone to do the same with any demographic in the future as precedent. It allows any government to ignore the law and then say "Whoops, they're already here," when people actually want something done about it.

>>126246

You are grabbing people that have lived normal law abiding lives for decades and de facto stripping them of all property, all housing, all friends, all family and all community, for perpetuity.Why does their offense warrants such a harsh measure? What terrible crime that damages so many did they commit to justify this action? Immigrants that are entering illegally and have been caught in the act are one thing it is quite another for you to try and equate their punishment with the one handed out to people that have built lives here.

This is not a matter of democracy, this is a matter of rights being violated as the punishment is excessively cruel in their case. To be stripped of life so completely without the release of death is a cruelty beyond measure although I'm sure you would rejoice at the opportunity to add that as well. The people built their lives at no demonstrable cost to you or anyone else, they provably and verifiably pay their share of taxes and cover their owns expenses many times over. Their crime is a lack of adherence to bureaucratic protocols and a lack of power with which to influence the public and law making apparatus and for this, for this above all else you would see them crucified.

It is for this very reason that we are not a democracy. It is for this very reason that the founders of this nation did not entrust the liberties enshrined in our birth to the mob for they knew all to well that the mob would step on the necks of the weak and meek of voice given any opportunity. The majority should not be listened to when they call for the abuse of the disenfranchised and they were rightly ignored for as long as they were. Were it not for the powers that be who carouse at the pitting of the ignorant against the weak and the weak against the ignorant this would not even be an issue.

You hide behind uncaring platitudes and cries of democracy to hide an aberration of justice.

>>126251
>Why does their offense warrants such a harsh measure?
They're damaging my country. Massive illegal immigration poses an existential threat to the US unlike we have ever faced.

You just don't grasp the abstract so well.

>>126252
I grasp that you are making a mountain out of a moll hill on top of trying to creat the false equivalency that the just treatment of people that have built lives here is the same as the opening of all borders forever. You are a scaremonger and a fool.

>>126251
If you admit catching people breaking immigration laws in the act is a good thing and what those people are doing is bad then the rest is moot honestly. You don't get to stop paying taxes and use the extra money to build a life for yourself and your children for twenty years and then sell everyone a sob story when the IRS comes knocking once their corrupt bosses stop holding them back. You're conveying the message that it's OK to break our immigration laws so long as you don't get caught for a certain amount of time. That is unacceptable to me and judging on public sentiment, quite a lot of people.

The punishment isn't excessively cruel. If a fresh illegal gets deported when they're caught then the same should happen to those who've gone five or ten years without deportation.

Spare me the compassionate dribble. I don't fucking care. It's as uselessly emotional as an argument appealing to fear or hatred is. The people who allowed this kind of rampant illegal immigration didn't do it for justice, they didn't do it to spite a bloodthirsty mob, they didn't do it to uplift the world's poor. They did it because they wanted poor, cheap, exploitable labor and a growing base of misinformed and dependent voters. Illegal aliens would not be the disenfranchised in the first place if the public's sentiment had been listened to and the corrupt hadn't allowed this to continually happen.

>>126254
When you combine your idea of pardoning those who get away with the crime for any stretch of time with the politicians who refuse to enforce the law when its pertinent to such an idea the result is de facto open borders, especially when you have cities all over the US refusing to cooperate with immigration officials.

This isn't hard to understand and your endless arguments from a position of compassionate naivete aren't going to make that reality go away.

>>126257
>They did it

They didn't do anything. Migrations happen they always have happened, if they didn't erect an enormous border wall it was for all the reasons Trumps critics have sighted, if they didn't send the national guard there it was because it's only since the last Mexican President that things have gotten ugly on top of the expense and futility of such an endeavor. This is not some vast conspiracy to get immigrants to kill white culture and take your jobs even now at its height they are less than five percent of the population and shrinking. There is a great difference between stopping someone that has only just begun and stripping someone of all they have earned the difference is numerically quantifiable in dollars and cents, in time, contacts, progress and income. To say that because there is no problem in doling out the same punishment to men guilty of the same crime when the de facto punishment changes from individual to individual is wrong and why individual trials exist to begin with.

The difference between this and withholding taxes is that doing the latter has a verifiable and measurable cost to the state and by extension the populace, it is a repeated offence that requires forethought and a willingness to repeatedly break the law at the cost of others. This is not equivalent to a person ignoring a bureaucracy that likely did not let him in to begin with or if it did took half a decade or more to process a stamp with no justification whatsoever. Who on top of that contributes more to the state than they receive in services. I speak of rights and the justice the state and courts have an obligation to see ensured in all their decisions precisely because the powerful have an obligation to be compassionate with their use of power and you dismiss this as drivel? Have you gone utterly mad?

>>126259
Having or enforcing a statute of limitations on immigration law as well a reform of it is not in any way equivalent to opening the borders, claiming the contrary is just dishonest.

You're dishonest

>>126277
It's not if you just conveniently ignore the other half of the equation like you just did. If politicians are tying the hands of enforcement officials from doing their jobs, like they do in sanctuary cities across America, then they can't very well catch those people before those statute of limitations run out now can they? That's de facto open borders.

>>126274
Ah ha, migrations have always happened you say. Well yes, they have, and they frequently don't look very good for those on the receiving end of them. If you're going to use that as an argument then you're opening yourself up to some rather meaty counter arguments that look even more convincing in comparison.

Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime anymore than tax evasion is. All your grandstanding about the compassion of those in power is exactly that, empty platitudinal grandstanding. They had absolutely nothing of the sort in mind when they allowed these people to break the law, when they hamstrung immigration officials, or turned their cities into places where the laws are ignored. They wanted easy votes and cheap labor. They were willing to endanger these people in order to turn them into a permanent wage-slave caste. Stop acting like the blatant disregard of American laws by the greedy to fill their coffers and ballot boxes was in any way altruistic enlightenment. If the public had been listened to in the beginning it wouldn't exist as a problem and the public is not obligate to change its position on the matter because the corporatist elite muddied the waters by forcing their will despite those protestations. Nor are they obligated to change their position because people like you insist on being compassionate useful fools for the same corporatist parties who created this mess in the first place.

>>126257

Your post bothered me and it is not until now that I realize why. Where the devil did you get this idea that Compassion is some useless pointless thing that governments and those in power would do well to avoid? It is compassion that gave you the rights you now use to attempt to take from others. It was compassion that fueled the writing, framing and conception of those rights. And you honestly pretend to tell me of American laws and American rights and how both would do well to avoid emotion and compassion as if you made some sort of profound point by doing so? I was wrong you are not mad merely a fool!

I again ask you to justify the banishment, and that is what this is, THE BANISHMENT of people and the stripping of all their worldly goods as well as family, friends and community obtained through fair toils and strife all over the failure to comply with bureaucratic norms and I damn well do use compassion when I speak of justice for you cannot hope to have true justice without some measure of compassion for justice without compassion is nothing short of tyranny.

>>126291
>Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime
It is though.

>>126291
So you would be fine with giving illegals that have lived in the US for say 5 years or more a pathway to citizenship as long as sanctuary cities were no longer around?

>>124104
When white kids do it, it doesn't make the national news.

>>126293
Because your compassion is empty and misplaced. It's a political grandstanding. The people who created this problem did not have an ounce of it in their motivations. They wanted cheap labor and guaranteed votes. They didn't care who they endangered to get them. You portraying the elites actions as enlightened governance in the face of a mindless rabble is nothing but fantasy you've drummed up to help support your compassion for people who were used as fools for someone else's gain.

Compassion blinds people to reality. It's a tool those who lack it will wield to make you do things against your best interests. Just like fear. Just like hatred. Just like love. Thinking so strongly with your emotions will trap you. Take a look at Europe and tell me with a straight face compassion is serving their interests.

>>126295
This thread's topic says otherwise.

>>126296
No. I'd be fine with pathways to citizenship for people who have lived in the US for ten years or more and can prove beyond any doubt they are a net positive to their country and community and only if sanctuary cities were not only disbanded, but actively helped immigration officials in their jobs.

>>126297
>White guy whataboutism
This is as silly as people deflecting to Christianity whenever Islam is brought up. Firstly, there's a difference between crimes committed by natural born Americans and those who were already slated to be deported for their illegal status and prior crimes. Secondly, it does make the news, even when they're innocent as Rolling Stone and Duke proved. Take your petty racism elsewhere.

>>126291
I can't think of a single victim of illegal immigration worth mentioning that isn't more of a victim of some other system than of illegal immigration itself. Indeed I think illegal immigration simply serves to highlight outstanding problems in other areas than actually cause them. As I said migrations have always happened however it is again a falsehood to claim every migration is the same and with equal effects on the receiver, they are not, they vary in scale wildly and are just as wild in how they effect both populaces. It's a matter of individual cases not generalizations and to generalize them all is to ultimately be wrong.

Like all things the important thing is how it was handled and as I've already said I think immigration in general has been handled very badly in all aspects from legal to illegal. This however does not justify further abuse in the name of the law. I will however lend no credence to fools talk of conspiracies to rig voting blocks with people that can't vote and your scapegoating of illegals for all things bad with corrupt or inept government.

>>126301
Illegal immigrants commit less crimes than average Amercians. They purposely try to stay out of trouble so they don't have interactions with police.

>>126301

The woman is a victim of rape, shitty parenting and crap school monitoring not of illegal immigration. It's not like there's some causation relationship between illegal immigration and rape rates, not here anyway.

>inb4 someone posts Sweden rape capital of europe

>>126301
>Just like love
>fedoratip.jpg

>>126305
If they vary so wildly then bringing up "migrations have always happened," as if it means jack or shit is nothing but wasted verbiage. You can't make a generalization like that and get pissy when someone points out the argument will work against you as much as, if not more, than it'd benefit you.

It's also not a conspiracy theory to say illegal aliens have children and those children are by law American citizens. You don't have to dig far below the surface to find leftwing sentiment designed to turn identity into a voting platform and their intentions to do exactly that with America's burgeoning Latino populations is self-evident.

>>126307
Yes, they're deleterious to the civic health of the places they live precisely for reasons like that.

>>126309
She's a victim of all the above.

>>126314
Come up with a refuting argument if you believe otherwise.

>>126301
Compassion is why you and I have rights. Rights do not fall out of the sky like so much rain they were bled for by men who because of their compassion believed other men should live beyond the whims of what those in power were willing to tolerate. Your complete disregard for them in the realm of law does nothing but brand you a foolish mewling child.

This is not grandstanding it's truth being proclaimed. You seek unjust repercussions to those that have done neither you nor anyone else any measurable wrong and revel in the opportunity to judge them your lesser or at least you must since you as of yet have given no justification for such a harsh punishment and are now advocating against the laws you just a few posts ago claimed were fair and just and all you needed in return was an opportunity to even more aggressively persecute those weaker than you. Though I suppose even worms must spit on maggots.

In regards to the elites I have spoken my piece and will no longer speak of your conspiracy theories.

.

>>126316
I bring them up migrations historically occurring as a counter to your ridiculous claim that illegals were "let in" to support the people you disagree with politically which is what the conspiracy theory was you damn fool.

>>126316
>Come up with a refuting argument if you believe otherwise.
Oh noooo, you are too superior with your euphoric logic, who needs emotions?


It's just some stupid human shit.

Pfft, faggy ass humans

>>126316
>they're deleterious to the civic health of the places they live precisely for reasons like that.
And when people try to eliminate the fear of the police through things like sanctuary cities or laws that prohibit enforcement of immigration laws by non-ICE officers you complain that they need to kick the illegals out. Is there any scenario in your mind in which we would not be better off just killing everyone you don't like?

>>126093
if we don't have statistics how do you know its a lie you miserable fag?

>>126322
Bullshit. The Magna Carta wasn't signed because of compassion, it was because John's nobles had the power to show him his crown meant nothing if he overstepped his bounds. It was conciliatory. He was acting in his own self-interest to aid that of others so they would abate from opposing him.

The American constitution was forged in the fires of revolution. It was the grand sum of a series of actions taken by people who did what they did not strictly from compassion, but from self determination. If they were compassionate, they would have freed the slaves then and there, yet they did not because those slaves continued their own means to their own ends.

The secularism of the West is built on competing balances of self-interest, not compassion. It certainly wasn't compassion that compelled the retreat of political religiosity following the Thirty Years war, it was the self-interest inherent in disarming religious incompatibility conducive to such disastrous existential warfare.

The Civil Rights too were not won by compassion, they were conciliatory actions in light of the civic unrest and promises of escalation in light of the turbulent decade of the '60s.

Compassion is nothing but self-interest with a moralistic and saccharine dressing wrapped around it to save egos and preserve unity.

>>126325
Still not seeing an argument.

>>126323
They were though. Reagan allowed it first because the religious among Latin America promised to be loyal voters. That blew up in his face when the left co-opted it and used identity to push the same concept. The rightwing's elite did it because they like cheap labor. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's history and using the "migrations always happen," line to justify it or obfuscate from that reality is irrelevant and silly in context.

>>126328
It fixes one problem while making another even bigger. Strong immigration laws and a complete disbanding of sanctuary cities fixes both. Two birds; one stone.

>>124615
>they commit crime disproportionate to their population
[citation needed]

>>124876
>montano and sanchez
>muslims
how can you be this stupid and still know how to type? are you dictating to your mom?

>>126330
>Still not seeing an argument.
To your oh so euphoric reasoning that emotions are for plebs and faggy degenerates?


Of course not

Makes sense

Humans are fags

>>126330
>They were though.
Prove it or kindly fuck off.

>>126334
It's not a hard concept anon. I didn't say be a fucking robot, I said making decisions and judgments based on emotion is often not a good idea. Do you have a competing argument or are you just going to be a passive-aggressive twat?

>>126330
We already have strong immigration laws the problem is that they are enforced of course you don't know what you mean. You think immigration laws are weak because people ignored them, what you don't understand is that people ignored them because they were strong. People want what people want and they wanted to come here, rather than trying to legislate behavior doesn't it make more sense to incentivize it? Why are you such an authoritarian piece of shit, holy crap.

>>126336
Yes, making decisions based on emotion is human

even the decision to forego emotion to concentrate on facts is motivated by a fear of being wrong or negative outcomes.

You are literally asking for the impossible.

>>126330
The bill of rights is a document with compassion for the people as its primary motivation, the defining of the rights of the people as a recognition of the fears of the sufferings and misfortunes of others. That the people provide power for the state to function does not negate this fact. Nor does it mask the compassion inherent in the right to arm yourself and fight against the tyranny of the very state that would recognize your rights from virtue of birth.

Again, to disregard compassion in the affairs of the law and the rights of men is tyrannical in its very nature.

>>126335
Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million people in '86. It's not a conspiracy theory.

>>126337
I'm not an authoritarian, I'm just not someone who suffers from the illusion that the US can have a stable society and working social safety nets without strong borders and people willing to enforce them. I don't care that people wanted in. America does not owe itself to everyone who thinks they're entitled to a spot within it. I want strong immigration laws and I want them enforced.

>>126338
I'm not asking for the impossible, though it might seem that way to someone used to making all their arguments based on emotion. It's really simple. Whenever you find yourself making an emotional decision stand back and look at things as objectively as possible, if for just a moment. Boom. There you go. It's not motivated by fear, it's motivated by wanting to get your shit in a straight line.

>>126343
>Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million people in '86. It's not a conspiracy theory.
I'm asking you to prove your conspiracy theories about "letting them in", how it was all because the left wanted votes and to change the national demographics in their favor. Not about whether or not Reagan gave people amnesty, neither feigned nor sincere ignorance is flattering.

>>126343
>I want strong immigration laws and I want them enforced.
We have had strong immigration laws and they were enforced that is precisely why they entered illegally. Immigrating to the United States is not easy and I suppose you take no issue with that whatsoever. The problem is the amount of people that want to come far exceeds the number the system is legally capable of processing. Or to be more precise, the problem is the people that want in have no real way of deciding whether or not they get in. The requirements tend to be a series of things they have no control over so when they are given the rejection notice they feel cheated and thus feel owed and so we now have to pay $900 billion instead of them paying us.

However you want to dictate to human beings what they will and won't do at every step of the process instead of providing an incentive to comply with protocol...Because you're an authoritarian twat.

>>126342
The Constitution was drafted by rich land owners who just overthrew a strong central government. The stipulations in the Bill of Rights aren't there out of compassion, they're there as self interest to make sure their rights as land owners would not be impeded by that kind of central apparatus again.

Again, if they were focusing on compassion they would have freed the slaves, they would have made efforts to compensate for Natives and Loyalists displaced during the Revolution.

You seem to be suffering from this idea that compassion is objectively speaking a moralistic good and the absence of it must mean a moralistic evil as if mutual self-interest can't facilitate the same thing without the unneeded baggage often enough.

>>126345
They obviously weren't strongly enforced if mayors across America can openly disregard them. Again, the United States does not owe legal status or entry to anyone who simply decides they want it. You're not entitled to live in the country just because you feel you are. It's that simple. I don't care if those people feel cheated or if they get frustrated. The American immigration system should be set up to benefit it and its citizens first and foremost and the American citizenry wants nothing to do with allowing people to circumvent the process because they feel owed.