Scotland will try again for independence referendum, possibly

>Ms. Sturgeon’s comments came hours before the British Parliament was expected to clear the way for Prime Minister Theresa May to invoke Article 50, the formal procedure that sets off a two-year negotiation with the 27 other member states of the European Union.

>Ms. Sturgeon said her preferred date for a new vote would be in the autumn of 2018 or the spring of 2019, when the terms of a British exit from the bloc would be clearer.

>She said she would ask Scotland’s devolved legislature in Edinburgh to request approval from the British Parliament for the new referendum, known as a Section 30 order, next week.

>Mrs. May has accused Ms. Sturgeon and her Scottish National Party, which dominates politics in Scotland, of having an “obsession” with independence. But officials say it would be politically difficult for Mrs. May to refuse a new referendum outright.

>Ms. Sturgeon’s party won the 2015 election in Scotland on a manifesto that left open the door for another independence referendum should circumstances “materially change,” and she had cited a so-called Brexit — then considered highly unlikely — as an example of such a change.

>The real fight might be over timing: London, officials say, would prefer that Scotland put off another vote until after Britain has left the European Union, betting that voters will feel less confident about leaving once they have been pulled out of the bloc. as an example of such a change.

>Ms. Sturgeon emphasized that Scotland should not be withdrawn from Europe against the will of its people. She also pointed to the weakness of the opposition Labour Party, citing predictions of a Conservative Party government in London “until 2030 or beyond.”

>Since the June referendum on Britain’s future in Europe, Ms. Sturgeon has argued that Scotland should be given a special status.

>So far, Mrs. May has ruled out any concessions. On Tuesday, Ms. Sturgeon said that there could be room for compromise if the prime minister were to offer a deal for Scotland, but she noted that no options had yet been offered.

>>121335
>Ms. Sturgeon said that London had failed to address Scotland’s desire to remain in the single market after Britain leaves the European Union.

Does she understand the concept of democracy? They took your votes, that was the consideration of the Scott's opinions.

>>121371
Additional:
Spain and France said they would veto Scotland's application into the EU plus the EU said they would have to apply with 4 countries already cued ahead of them and no new members will be added until 2020 as stated by the president of the EU commission.

>>121375
Spain says it's gonna veto because they are afraid that Catalonia will do the same as Scotland. But Spain is weak now. They don't have a stable government sonce years and Rajoy is totally dependent of Merkel. Merkel will do everything what's good for German economy. And France will NOT veto ANY new EU member. They cannot live without the EU and the EU burocrats need at least some expansion of the union otherwise it will collapse.
If EU economy leaders dictate that they need Scotland so that at least some British companies are on EU soil, France will happily accept Scotland, especially after the elections. Scotland will be treated preferentially. The EU will crave Scotland after completion of Brexit.

>>121335
SNP = biggest load of hypocritical faggots in the history of british politics
>We need freedom from outside influence.
>But being a part of the EU is the greatest thing ever
>Even though they are far more controling than any British government, and we would be legally bound to go into "ever colser union" when the UK union respects and promotes the sovereignty of the home nations
>We want the Euro as well, and would be legally bound to adapt it, even though it's a completely failed EU political project that has inpoverished alot of the smaller economies in the EU.
>We'll practically have no military, just some pithy little "scottish defence force" and sponge off the UK and US for protection.
>We constantly titter about how much better we are because of our free university tuition and free medical proscriptions, things we can only afford by being a part of the 5th largest economy in the world.
>Also we are SJW fuckheads, are anti-gun, anti-self defence, pro-business restrictions, high taxes, pro-rapefugee, pro-welfare, pro-EU free movement/open bourders, etc
>Did we mention that we are totally not anglophobic.

etc, etc, etc.....

>>121391
Offering Britain a bad deal no looks like a win win for the EU.
We either take their shitty offer or have Scotland leave to join them.

We'll probably be forced down the 'no deal is better than bad deal' road because parliament looks like it will do no more than offer a rubber stamp.

Left to make trade deals with the rest of the world from a position of weakness

Thank you very much Mr Farage.

>>121397
>I would rather be financially better off than have a country and government able to determin it's own destiny without extensive intervention from foreigners who have very little in common with us politically, culturally or constitutionally that my children and granchildren can inherit.

>>121400

Got any more straw men?

>>121394
>We'll practically have no military
who is gonna attack them anyway? norway?

>>121394
>things we can only afford by being a part of the 5th largest economy in the world.
they will become part of the 3rd largest

>>121400
Strong argument for Scottish independence you bring there.

RIP UK

>>121397
why dont you just simply stay in the EU and help reforming it into something reasonable and worthwile?

>>121401
The truth hurts I see.
>>121403
No one is going to attack scotland in the short tern, or even at any point in the forseable future. If you follow that logic you wouldn't get life insurance or put smoke alarms in your house or do a load of other pre-emptive things. You prepare for bad times when times are good, you don't wait until things turn to shit and then suddenly think "oh crap" and do a mad half-assed scramble to throw something together

>>121405
Lol was waiting for this one.
The EU is shit and should be gotten out of because it has no respect for national sovereignty and legally bounds it's members to conform to ever closer union, the UK union on the other hand respects and promotes the sovereignty of the home nations, a scotland part of a UK free of the EU would be the most independent scotland of them all.

>>121414
> extensive intervention from foreigners

I voted leave because of bendy bananas.
The EU was literally destroying my culture.

>>121406
Because crashing Europe is more important than our own well being.

>>121335
Remember kids, democracy isn't democracy unless you get the result you want. Get voted down? Just try again next year and the year after and the year after that.

I didn't realise that scotland was basing its democratic principles off those practiced in central fucking africa.

>>121416
I know mate. The EU controlling our tax powers and military was a real problem. Good job Westminster doesn't do that to Scotland.

>>121419
>The EU controlling our tax powers and military was a real problem
Don't worry friendo, those things will be coming to an EU state near you in due course.

The Home Nations should (and for the most part do) control most issues, somerthing you will not get from the EU.
Westminster should control the UK military and (some) tax powers, along with a limited number of other things because the UK is a country in in of itself, whos Home Nations are closly linked culturally and constitutionally over the course of hundreds of years, unlike our friends on the continent

>>121426
I think Scotland was right to stay in the UK for the same reason we should have stayed in the EU.

I think most Brexiteers have been tricked into thinking the EU is some sort of monster for reasons known only to the people doing the trick..

>>121436
the EU isn't a monster, but it's run by out-of-touch moonbats accountable to no one but themselves.

europe did not need a USSR-esque political union. NATO suffices for defense, and if they want to coordinate trade, why not simply make treaties without all the insane and unnecessary overhead of a vast, overarching and ever-expanding political union? the whole thing is ridiculous. now they want an army. what could go wrong? a multinational army chained at the hip to an unaccountable anti-democracy political formation. what could go wrong?

>>121443
>NATO suffices for defense
I heard from an excellent source that it was obsolete.
So you might not want to put all your eggs in that basket.

It was a pity someone couldn't have negotiated some sort of opt out from the 'ever closer union' part of the EU.

camerons_legacy.jpg

Are you a Yank btw?

>>121418
why do you say that? when the first referendum was started, all of uk was in the eu. and scottish independence would have made them a non-eu country. now all the prerequisites have changed: uk is not a member of eu and scottish independence will turn them into an eu member. with all those conditions changed, the old referendum is no longer valid.

>>121443
>the EU isn't a monster, but it's run by out-of-touch moonbats accountable to no one but themselves.
But Britain is run by morons, too. I mean just look at their politicians who put their penises into pig heads, who don't possess combs (which we happen to use since the stone age), who are shoe fashion victims, fuck little boys, and the like.

>>121414
No one is going to attack scotland in the short tern, or even at any point in the forseable future.
that totally proves my point. scotland does not need a big military now.
>You prepare for bad times when times are good
and they have all the time in the world to analyse what kind of military they gonna need for the future and to set one up, or for when a bad thing will happen in the future.

>>121443
>NATO suffices for defense
Nato does a very strange global thing of its own, that is totally not focussed on defending the countries of the EU.
>a multinational army chained at the hip to an unaccountable anti-democracy political formation. what could go wrong?
so the problem behind it is not the eu army, but the eu leaders.

>>121418
The situation has changed.

I guess if you signed a contract to work at a place, liked it, and then they were bought out and shat on, you should just suck it up for the remainder of your contract. You confirmed that you are okay with being cucked.

>>121446
>NATO suffices for defense
>brexit supporters also think NATO should be limited or shut down

Which is it?

>>121452
I'm pretty sure some people confuse the problems of NATO and the EU. They seem to think the EU is some kind of military alliance with trade, and NATO is just a secondary arm of that. The two aren't that related outside of sharing members, otherwise America would be in the EU.

>>121456
Didn't think that was what I implied.
Sorry if I confused you.
It was a Trump™ joke.

But I can see why the EU is looking again at its mutual defence options with Trump moving closer to Russia while the eastern Europeans feel increasingly troubled by Putin's behaviour.

Would an independent Scotland automatic be part of NATO?
I expect they would want join an EU army so they had a second option if NATO ever looked shaky.

>>121454
Yup, things have changed. That's how shit works. Next year there'll be something else, and then something else after that.
"Oh, they changed the NHS, we need a referendum again."
"Oh, there's a new prime minister, clearly we need a referendum."
"They made give way signs circular. Obviously this doesn't reflect the will of the scottish people, we need a referendum."

Fucking whinging cunts. You were lucky to get the vote you had. Should have been told to fuck off in the first place.

>>121464
There I was thinking Brexit was this huge monumental decision that has completely change the course of British history.

Glad to know it's a minor change.
Feel so much better now.
Thanks man.

>>121464
obvsly you are trying to ridicule the fundamental condition change. but to bite your stupid hook, plz go read about liquid democracy if you like.

>>121475
>>121471
The SNP strongly campaigned on the fact that voting to remain part of the Union might mean being taken out of the EU so it'll be uncomfortable for them on the doorsteps.

>>121452
I'm not sure many people would have a problem with a pan Euro joint armed forces, which in fact is basically what NATO is, plus the US.

The leaders are exactly the problem - no country will consent to its soldiers being marched off by some foreign leader, and the countries who will not make up a large part of said armed forces will not likely be happy to concede all the control to other countries

>>121406
This has been the plan for the past decade and a half. This was the point of the attempts by Cameron to get such changes 3 years ago, and again just before the referendum was held.

If an organisation is not going to stop and think 'hold on a sec, is this a good course', when it is clearly driving away one of the large contributor states, nothing was going to.

Plus, the Government's idea of reform is not much like that of the population in general

>>121503
>which in fact is basically what NATO is, plus the US.

I feel sorry for Canadians to be honest.

>>121506
'Canadian defence spending among lowest in NATO despite small increase last year'
CBC

No hard feelings Canada

>>121502
source? I remember all sorts of opinions and persuasions. Most of them were speculative.

>>121503
>which in fact is basically what NATO is, plus the US.
Turkey disturbs a bit.

>>121505
Thanks to people like Juncker, Merkel, Barroso, Rajoy, and Prodi, etc. God I hate those people.

>>121530
>God I hate those people.
Britain decided to not bother fighting them.
Bravo.