Rise of the Eastern Aircraft Manufacturers

>>994415
>Sukhoi
Never
>COMAC
Ten, twenty years and they'll be a major player
>Mitsubishi
Never

>>994420
I'm pretty sure you got that 100% backwards.

>Sukhoi
Has reached the West with customers like Interjet and Cityjet

>Mitsubishi
The only company in the list to have firm orders from relatively large airlines in the U.S. (Skywest and Eastern). Though I agree their chances are smallest

>COMAC
ARJ is a massively delayed (and thus, obsolete) ripoff, and the C919/C929 are vaporware

>Irkut
Who?

I'd like to see the Tupolev 214 and Antonov 148/158 enter the western market.

>>994424

Who is skywest and trans states going to operate the MRJ for? I'd love to know what legacy is going to give up scope out for 78 seats for the MRJ70 let alone the bigger 90 variant in today's pilot shortage environment.

>>994433
I think a bunch of Skywest's MRJs are going to be operated as United Express.

>>994415
I've heard horror stories about the Sukhoi's reliability

>>994415
>SuperJet
How can it go wrong?

>>994415
Those are all going to be niche.

The only Slav plane i'm interested in is the Be-200.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBv_6A7OOVY

>>994477
I don't think so bro. United's pilot CBA becomes amendable in Jan 2019 and because of this current pilot shortage there is absolutely NO WAY they will give up scope. The MRJ's skywest has on order are too big.

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In my opinion, the east will only have moderate success in the regional department, unless the COMACs and Irkut demonstrate amazingly economical capabilities.

However, the MRJ was delayed too long and will probably be BTFO by the CSeries and E2. I really do wonder why Trans States, Skywest, and especially Eastern opted for the MRJ.

I would absolutely love to be proven wrong, though. As someone else said, I'd like to see a shakeup in airplane design again.

>>994620
They thought there would be scope relief for something bigger than 76 seaters but smaller than 100 and the MRJ fit that bill and were to enter service long before the E175-E2. The MRJ90 should be at mainline just like the E190. Skywest also has Firm orders for E175-E2 but there are also scope concerns w/ that as well

>>994479
You need proofs other wise your just creating FUD.

>>994606
Doesn't mean shit. The MRJ90 is larger than any of the aircraft SkyWest flies on behalf of any airline.

>>994984
Are you dumb? I fly for skywest... you don't think scope matters? We can't operate the MRJ90 for any of our legacy partners.

>>995016
Your point that the capacity of the aircraft mattering a ton is irrelevant since it'll be larger than any of the aircraft SkyWest operates for any airline. The capacity increase is not unique to United Express.

>>995024

What don't you understand. SkyWest, can not operate the MRJ90 for any of the legacy airlines because of scope restrictions in the contracts of the pilots at the legacy carriers.

>>995024
Uh, the capacity of the aircraft is what scope clauses are about. I fly the 200 at SkyWest and I can promise you we will never operate the MRJ for any of our partners, because Delta will not get scope relief in their next contract, United's contract is not amendable until 2019 and their management will also not squeeze scope concessions out of its pilot group. American is trying to place all of its regional aircraft at its three wholly owned airlines and have no desire for the MRJ, which means the firm orders at SkyWest will never come to fruition.

>>995030
So you're saying that SkyWest ordered 100 MRJ 90s (with the option to buy 100 more) AND 100 E175-E2s (also with the option to buy 100 more) but has no intention of operating any of them.

Bullshit.

>>995062
>>995026
What on earth are they planning then?
Independent operations? Leasing? I'm not familiar with SkyWest's structure, are they contractually allowed to do either?

Regardless, I agree both aircraft have an odd passenger count for the U.S., I wonder if others have thought about this.

>>995062
Look, I understand you don't really understand how airlines in the U.S. work but yes, they wanted to operate them, they aren't going to. They will cancel their orders. We just signed on to a huge MX contract with bombardier so the plan at the moment is to continue operating the CRJ series and first gen E175. If you need help understanding what I'm trying to explain go to google and type in "Skywest MRJ scope"

>>995079

Of course they can try to operate aircraft outside of a CPA. They won't though because SkyWest isn't in that business, doesn't have the brand recognition to sell tickets... they could lease them, it's far more likely they will simply cancel their orders especially if there's no scope relief.

>>995091
One other point I forgot to add. SkyWest doesn't have the pilots (and they aren't readily available at the moment in the U.S.) to operate an extra 200 aircraft without parking tons and tons of aircraft. Furthermore, it would struggle to fulfill their current CPA's if it did try to operate these aircraft by themselves. SkyWest will not do that for VERY obvious reasons. I fucking FLY for them... don't say "bullshit" like you know what you're talking about.

>>995091
You keep deluding yourself into thinking you're not on the losing side of that issue in the medium to long term.

>>995098
To be clear: Airlines are not going to operate old and outdated aircraft, that they would rather not be operating, in the medium to long term just to indefinitely appease pilots. Period, end of story.

>>995092
Don't sit here and literally lie to everyone about the fundamental nature of airline labor agreements and operations. It's fucking disingenuous and, morte blunty, fucking retarded.

>>995099
You might be the dumbest most clueless person I've ever met, go play Microsoft flight simulator kiddo

>>995100
How am I lying rofl what the fuck? You are so fucking dumb. SkyWest will never fly the MRJ. You will see MRJ90 at fucking mainline before you ever see somebody operating them through a CPA.

>>995101
Nice work. You've said literally nothing of value and made unverifiable claims about yourself in order to pretend you're an authority figure.

Go jerk off to your manga, basement dweller.

>>995103
What do you want a picture of my ATP certificate timestamped? and a picture of the backside with the type rating? You're a fucking idiot child.

>>995102
Go ahead and prove your claims about future events over which you have no control, despite pretending you do. Come on, go ahead.

>>995104
And you're a fucking lying sack of maggot infested shit who openly denies the operational economics of airlines and the aircraft they operate.

>>995107
SkyWest can't operate the MRJ you moronic fuck. The legacy pilot CBA does not allow for it. You braindead dumpster child. It's the same reason mainline flies the E190. Hurr Durr.

This thread is pointless. The E2 and CS series are the only ones that will gain a real foothold going forward. None of the other new offerings will be more than niche players even though in the case of regional aircraft, the CRJ series is in decline.

>>995108
When the CBA expires and then you're fucked right in the ass, without lube or even the courtesy of a reach around. You don't seem to have any concept of the built-in impermanence of labor agreements.

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>>995107

Kek. Go back to microsoft flight sim geek.

>>995110
When the CBA "expires" it will be renegotiated and United pilots will not take scope concessions you moronic cunt. If you've been following the industry at all the last 4 years you'd know this.

>>995108
The current labor agreement expires after 2018, bro.

>>995115
Collective bargaining agreements don't "EXPIRE" they are up for amendment, the contract is followed whether there's a new CBA or not. As I've said 5 times already, United pilots will not take scope concessions. Skywest will NEVER operate anything more than 76 seats.

>>995114
That's not how negotiations work shitstain. It's not solely up to the pilots and never will be. And when the company start bleeding money because of old and inefficient fleet operations that easily and reasonably could have been avoided, guess who's fucked the most? Pilots. I bet you're one of those dumb cunts that thought some regional airlines would never convert to all-jet fleets.

>>995118
You're so braindead it's insane. Regional airlines wont even exist in 5 to 10 years, mark my words... anything bigger than 76 seats will be operated by mainline. Hang from a rope you wannabe geek.

>>995117
Staking your entire career on something that is objectively an unsustainable and untenable position in the long run is obviously not a smart play.

>>995120
My career is flying the CRJ? Lmfao k, thanks for letting me know.

>>995119
In which case, there will be widespread consolidation of regional operations, organizationally speaking, and a ton of pilots will lose their jobs anyway.

>>995122
Rofl no they wont because there's something like 20,000 retirements over the next whatever years and there's 17,500 regional airline pilots in the whole U.S. not to mention the flying will be covered because it's important flying, it will just be flown by 76+ seat plus and at mainline by people on mainline seniority. I can't believe that you continue to post when you know you're this clueless.

>>995123
I can't believe you continue to pretend like you control fleet operations or even understand why indefinitely sticking entirely with lower capacity legacy aircraft is a long term financial impossibility.

>>995124
Retard. I never said that legacy carriers will never operate the MRJ 90 or whatever other faggot shit airplanes you have a bone over. I'm simply saying that they will not be operating them through CPA's with ffd carriers like SkyWest. The pilots at mainline DO control what aircraft fly here in the U.S, why do you think nobody operates the CRJ1000. Why do you think FFD carriers in the U.S. operate the E190? It's becuase of SCOPE. You don't even know what legacy fucking means you're so stupid it's insane. Please fuck off back to Microsoft Flight Sim I'm done talking to you I have more important shit to worry about.

>>994415
If the alleged specs for the C919 are even close to accurate, the plane will be less efficient than the 737NG and A320 families, let alone the 737MAX and A320neo families. The only airlines who would pick the C919 over existing or future alternatives are the ones who are effectively forced to by the Chinese government. Same goes for the ARJ21. Pointless aircraft that was woefully outdated from the moment it flew.

>>995126
> have more important shit to worry about.
No you don't. You've proven that beyond any doubt.

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>>995128

Daily reminder that I fly jets, and you masturbate to pictures of airplanes like a greasy ass nerd.

>>995126
You're not exactly endearing anyone to your position when you call aircraft that are mathematically more efficient and cheaper to operate than what the aircraft they are designed to replace "faggot shit airplanes".

>>995130
Who the fuck cares what the little shit tube does? I fly the fucking plane and I make money. What I'm flying doesn't fucking matter whatsoever. The only people that care are the fucking nerds like you sim enthusiests, weekend warriors and spotter nerds taking pictures of me as I taxi by while I give them the finger. FUPM

>>995129
You sit in a dark room posting on the slowest and most autistic board on 4chan, an already extremely autistic site. As such, you lack the appropriate level of mental health to be reasonably allowed to operate any sort of commercial passenger aircraft.

>>995131
The people who sign your paychecks sure as fuck care.

>>995132
Yet I do it 16 days a month right? Even worse, I'm PIC. You're like the autistic fag on my flight who actually asks the FA to come up to the cockpit after we land for a tour. As your fat ass waddles down the aisle I search for the small child you're accompanying only to find out it doesn't exist and that you're a greasy ass 30 year old geek obsessed with aviation, then you start asking retarded questions about the aircraft's AC electrical system or the APU or whatever.... so cringe.

>>995131
Why are you here then

>>995129
> Disgusting /n/ nerd calling other disgusting /n/ nerds 'greasy ass nerds'.

Pot, meet Kettle.

>>995134
I don't fly on regional airlines because I live in a real metro area with multiple real, international airports and have no reason to fly to some doubly irrelevant backwater in some already irrelevant flyover state.

>>995137
ROFL. Yeah, MSP to JFK is so backwater.

>>995135
To be indignant over shit he claims to not even care about.

>>995138
Because you have to fly a regional jet between those two and they totally don't operate larger aircraft on that route... oh fucking wait.

>>995140
Frequency > capacity that's why 50% of flights in the u.s. are made by regional airlines. Nice try. Should we ask my AWAC friends about how they fly DCA - PHL, CLT - PHL etc so backwater, or how about IAH - DEN like skywest operates.. list goes on. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about enjoy your fine career being a wannabe.

>>995138
For what possible reason would I choose to fly on a tiny regional jet on that route when I could easily fly on an A319 with the same airline?

>>995143
HURRR DURRR I DONT KNOW CUZ YER LOOKIN TO GO AT A DIFFERENT TIME HURRR DURRRRRRRR

>>995142
The vast majority of passengers going between 2 major airports don't fly on regional jets. That is a bulletproof fact. You're literally claiming that the exception to the rule is actually the rule.

>>995145
I can pick from any number of Delta flights between MSP and JFK on any given day that use the A319 or MD88. There's plenty of flexibility without being forced to take a regional jet flight.

>>995149
This. The only reason you'd be on a regional jet on that route on Delta is because you either a) chose to be or b) had some extremely specific flight time requirements that required you to be on a flight that happened to use a regional jet.

And that's not even accounting for the fact that you could just be open to using another airline to increase your flexibility further.

>>995112
why is your weight and height switched?

>>995157
Assuming it's inches and pounds, not cm and kg.

>>995158
It is.
He is roughly 1.92 meters and 88.5 kg

>>994424
Mitsubishi has made vaporware planes for like 75 years. They need a massive war contract to bother with aviation

Comac actually wants to be a player and just needs time to figure out how to use all the data they stole from boring and airbust

Sukhoi needs to stop crashing planes on demo flights and they might be taken more seriously

>>995361
Comac is so far behind on all fronts that they will never matter outside China.

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>>995374
This, as well as all other companies and their respective countries of origin. Because flag carriers are gonna be forced to use these new planes, the manufacturers will only see moderate success in their own countries, while being denied literally anywhere else.

The COMAC and Irkut airplanes are already not fuel-efficient enough and will be DOA. In COMAC's case, I'm genuinely worried about the quality.
Not too sure about the SSJ numbers, but they must be doing something right to have Western orders.
Mitsubishi is the only new player I believe in at the moment, purely because of the numbers (efficiency+orders) and culture. Japan is the most "West" an Eastern country can be.

Had Russia not gone to war in Ukraine, I think the Russians would've started to become serious competitors to the Airbus/Boeing duopoly for large aircraft. But as it is, I doubt any Russian aircraft manufacturers will have much success while Putin's alive.

Comac's early safety problems have given it a bad reputation that will be hard to shake off. Unlikely to succeed except perhaps if Bombardier collapses completely.

Mitsubishi will be more successful, though I doubt they'll ever get anywhere near Embraer's market share.

Why would you want to fly on an A319 when you could fly on an E190?

I fly the superjet in Interjet.
And let me tell you, despite the initial problems the airline had with the plane, it turned out to be a great success for the airline.
So much that a few other Mexican and Latin American Airlines have shown interest in buying it.

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Who cares about the Ruskies and Chinese when the Dutch are going to save us all with their fabulous flying machines?

...I miss Fokker ;-;

>>994415
No, I'm sure they all have some sort of horrible defect that is going to cause multiple fiery crashes. Do you seriously think the Russians can build aircraft that won't crash and burn?

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>>995132

greasy ass nerd BTFO

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Embraer is already one step ahead tho.

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Embraer been expanding a lot on Asia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX4KRHamyfw

>Sukhoi
>Mitsubishi

heh no.

Did you guys see the one "homegrown" from China? Guess where they probably ripped it off from.

>>998228
Too bad it's inferior to the CS Series in pretty much every way.