/BRT/ - Bike Training and Racing thread

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>>984715
>What are you gentlemen up to?
>gentlemen
Fixing my cargo bike up to go pokemonhunting by the playground tomorrow. Gotta catch them all!

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In continuation of the last thread:

I am strongly considering upgrading to an FSA K-Force Light BB386EV0 standard 53/39crank (with the MegaEvo bottom bracket) now that a helpful anon has helped me with compatibility concerns. I've read a lot of reviews and it has a high stiffness/weight ratio, however FSA has had some quality issues with recent models. Has anyone any experience with this particular crank?

does anyone else live in new england?

how the fuck do you train with any regularity with the weather here?

winter: -30f
spring: -20f
summer: 100f with 4 out of 7 days a week thunderstorms
fall: nice riding

>>984731
same deal in Minnesota. Just gotta ride in the rain and cold. Give your bike a little more love, dress appropriately, you're good to go.

t. just got back from ride in a literal thunderstorm

We should make this more of an official general, with a copy&paste main thread body. Stuff like a link to Velominati's rules, joe friel's book, how to buy a license, just basic stuff like that

(those are just off the top of my head, don't kill me)

>>984731
Cold weather is best weather. Rain is not a problem if you have the right gear.

Roadies need to stop being such gigantic pussies

What is a respectable top flat-ground sprint speed? I maxed out at 32 mph on a 50/11 setup after 100+ miles of riding and 15 miles of running this week, I'm curious to see what I can do with a 53/11 ratio and rested legs

>>984731
Sadly, that's what stationary trainers are for; if the weather really sucks that much, then you really don't have a choice. I'm glad I live in NorCal. Even during the coldest weather down here in the Central Valley, I'm still in bib shorts, and so long as I keep moving, I generate my own heat.

>>984742
I like you; I'll kill you last. xD
Not a bad idea. People please post suggestions and I'll compose a draft for group approval.
In fact it might make more sense to create a pastebin to point to.

>>984743
>Roadies need to stop being such gigantic pussies
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've got no problem riding in the rain, with some exceptions: Doing sprints, or even Jumps, or most other anaerobic work when it's pouring down rain and/or blowing hard? Bad idea. I can think of few worse things than ending up in the ER because I crashed my bike while training alone. Also, riding for hours in the pouring rain turns my bike into an absolute horror show that takes me a couple hours to dismantle, clean, and re-lube everything that's all mucked up, so it doesn't just grind itself into scrap.

>>984750
Hard to say without knowing more about you.
I will say this: how you sprint during training or 'just riding' often has little to no bearing on how you'll sprint at the end of a race, both for athletic reasons and for strategic reasons; you might have spent an entire road race with some assholes at the front driving up the pace as much as possible, and you're mostly gassed by the time you get to the 100-meter mark; you might not have a lead-out and have to try to do it on your own; you might have a great lead-out, and look after the finish and find you hit 40. Too many variables.
I can also tell you this:
>don't skip Form Sprints
Bad sprint form will rob you of top speed
>don't skip Lactate Tolerance
Poor lactate clearance will make your sprint fade faster
>don't skip anaerobic intervals
Will help you develop sprint power

>>984750
You don't need longer gears!
32mph is a cadence of 90 with those gears. Personally I'd be bringing the cadence up to 120 sprinting and many experts seem to agree.
So this means only once you hit 43mph would you need any longer gears.

53/11 is only ever needed on descents (imo unless you're superhuman). When I ride flats my max gear is a 53/13.

>>984786
I live in an area where a twenty mile loop in any direction produces between 1,300 to 1,900 feet in elevation change. However I have a 12/25 cassette as well as an 11/23, would a standard crank (170 mm) with the former be best? I usually train at a low cadence (around 70 RPM around on average) but am only now understanding that such an average can be made more efficient

I have underestimated and overlooked my diet in terms of improving my cycling strength and ability and would like to start over anew. What are the best articles or sources of info thereabout for advanced cyclists that isn't also trying to sell me their shit?

>>984821
I'd start with the part of the /fit/ sticky pertaining to diet: http://liamrosen.com/fitness.html#part3

If you're fat, then you need to fix that.

If you're physically weak (lacking ability to produce force for long periods of time, no sprint, etc) then you need to address those problems.

Other than that: unless you're eating absolute crap food (fast food, pizza, sodas, etc) all the time, training is more important than diet. Since we know nothing about you (your current level of experience, your goals, etc) we can't really give you any specific advice on training.

>>984786
>32mph is a cadence of 90 with those gears. Personally I'd be bringing the cadence up to 120 sprinting and many experts seem to agree.
True. At 90rpm you're probably using Type-I muscle fibers, which would mean your 'sprint' would be wimpy. Above 100rpm you're really using Type-II muscle fibers, which may fade quicker, but will produce higher peak torque for that shorter period of time, which means a better sprint.

>>984730
>receive good advice last thread
>still wants to 'upgrade' FROM shimano TO fsa
just fuck off already

>>984731
By not being a massive faggot.
>implying -20f is even cold
>>984859
Shimano is shit.

>>984859
I needed the (You)s

does standing up on rest days help?
i have a freelance job so training has to be flexible. so its usually train day then rest day then train day, etc. a job popped up so i did 2 rest days in a row. but the second rest day i had to be standing up for 12 hours. i think i sitted a total of 15 minutes during that day (one 5 minutes and 10 minutes sit).i even ate standing up. anway, training day after that and i felt my condition had really improved.. i knew how i should be for that training but shit was way better.

so... does stading up help? i usually work sitting but could be standing up.. any opinions? am i a retard? cheers

>>984809
I'm always a fan of standard length cranks, but that's personal preference. Supposedly standard length are slightly more aero also.

I train super different to you though. I'm high cadence, 90-100 so prefer to have lower gears I can spin faster.
For hills like that I ride a 53/39 with an 11-28 and that's got me up everything I've hit so far. Just.

But if I was looking at a new bike or new crankset I'd look at going for a compact 50/34 and keeping the rear 11-28.

Semi related, the 28 tooth cassette ring works perfectly with a short cage derailleur. A lot of people will tell you it won't. These are people who have never tried.

>>984925 (Me)
Should have mentioned by standard length I mean 170mm...

>>984926
Isn't standard length 172.5?

Although I think a lot of bicycles vary the crank length with frame size.

>>984925
>Semi related, the 28 tooth cassette ring works perfectly with a short cage derailleur. A lot of people will tell you it won't. These are people who have never tried.

It explicitly says on the product page use SS for up to 28 and if you want 32 you need GS.

>>984933
Yeah, it's not my day is it.
Standard probably is 172.5 but I'm so used to bikes coming with 170 that became the standard in my mind.
And the comment about the 28 should have be a 30 tooth. Have just checked and it's an 11-30 not an 11-28 as I thought. Short cage works perfectly.

>>984938
A "standard' crank means that it has a 53/39 chainset. Standard cranks come in 170mm, 172.5mm and 175mm arm lengths although there are standard cranks in production that are longer and some that are shorter

>>985074
Which is why I covered both options and mentioned 53/39 suggested to go for a compact.
I also specified what I called standard "length" was 170...

Not sure what point you're trying to make...

Why were there so many crashes by the end of La Course? Is it that difficult riding on a straight flat paved road?

>>985078
Because a 170mm 53/39 is one iteration of a standard crankset; this categorically is defined by the chain set and not spindle length, which you asserted

>>984875
No, I have the same question. I work as a host at a restauraunt and it requires me to stand a lot (just walking around) and I'll work after I've ridden and/or on rest days and sometimes I'll have a great ride the next day and one in a while I won't.

I don't really know, once in passing I was walking somewhere after a race (and there was another the next day) and someone who was also racing both saw me and said "walking can be nice recovery for some people" and that made me kind of curious as well.

You aren't REALLY using the the same muscles when you walk/stand, so it could be good? It could keep lactic acid broken up if you walk around?

Not sure, but I definitely have the same thoughts as you.

>>985095
Except I never even mentioned spindle length.
Go on, quote where the fuck I came even close to mentioning spindle length.

Secondly, you pedantic fuck, chainset is one word.
Thirdly a crankset does not include chainrings, so how the hell could a 53/39 be "one iteration of a standard cranket"...
Maybe before you start being all pedantic check you know what the hell you're talking about.

>>984695

>I am wondering about my heart rate back here though, I expect it will be significantly lower than it was, wonder if that will make me faster or whether its purely the legs that determine the pace in the end.

I lived at altitude for 8 months and coming back to 1000 feet or so was strange. I had the same power in my legs but my HR was lower so I would blow up my legs easier. How long were you in the alps? I don't think you'll really notice anything unless you were there for a month or more.

>>985113
>a crankset does not include chainrings
false

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Hey guys, do you think this chart is pretty accurate?

>>985321
If you read it correctly, which most people don't. Most people just look at one column and declare themselves a CAT 3 or something.

It's a relative fitness guide of different durations of efforts. A CAT 3 or whatever is expected to have values in the CAT 3 range for all 4 columns. If you have a column that is better, then that's your specialty. If you have a column that's lower, that's your weakness and you need to train to bring it up to at least an acceptable level.

>>985324
Yeah, I get everything you're saying. My 20-minute (FTP) and 5-minute power are deep into one Category, but I know for a fact that my 1-minute and 5-second power are lacking and need work. I even know why they're lacking and what to do about them to bring them up, it's just not something that's going to happen overnight (or in a month, or even this year). Really it doesn't surprise me all that much that 1-minute and 5-second power need work, those are fully, deeply anaerobic, and pretty much everyone needs to work on them. If they're lacking then your sprint will fade early, and relatively short hill-climbs, where everyone goes anaerobic, will be where you get dropped, among other things.

I understand now why Friel wants you to test the way he does. Just testing FTP and deriving your training Zones from that is one thing, but anaerobic performance is a totally different ballgame and needs to be tested separately.

>>984875
Not sure but it could be that you needed the extra rest day, most cyclists struggle to rest enough because we want to keep riding.

does anyone here artificially add weight or some sort of wind catcher for training? I like to ride on pathways but the speed limit is too low, thinking of somehow making the bike slower while pushing myself hard.

I have a commuter bike which is 2x as heavy but the fit is different.

>>985375
get a decent touring bike and load that fucker up

>>985375
>his pathways have speed limits

I'm sorry

Are there any non-terrible roads you could use instead?

>>985375
How about not riding on pathways and riding on the roads?

>>984875
>>985371
A well-designed training schedule should have enough recovery/rest built into it to sustain you through training blocks. Perhaps you're not getting enough sleep or poor quality sleep? Or maybe you're just overall training too many hours per week for your level of development? Also, some cyclists think 'more miles is better' when they should be thinking more in terms of quality, not quantity, and they wonder why they're so tired all the time.

>>985378
>>985380
Roads are pretty shit and filled with flat causing debris, gravel, usually not scenic either. Pathways are nice and clean and brings you along the river.

Riding on roads is also more stressful having to avoid said debris and trying not to shoot out into traffic. City is really doing a bad job cleaning the roads this year.

>>984715
>What are you gentlemen up to?
Training for sydney to wollongong. Cycled Mccars creek for the firt time sunday, holy crap that is a big hill, but the view and payoff is great!

Hurt like a muther fucker at the moment

45 minute solo threshold ride with a bit of an extra push at the end.
33.2km/h average speed in a loop.

Felt pretty good about the speed. Was aiming for 32.8km/h.

Here's where I get called a slow cunt...

>>985689
not bad, but you should care less about speed and more about effort and time. Seems like it was a good effort if you still had some in the tank to push at the end of an extended threshold effort.

>>985689
GET A LOAD OF THIS SLOW CUNT

>>985689
average speed is not a valid measurement. i can be riding at zone 2 on flats travelling at 27km/h average but be riding at 13km/h at zone 4 when climbing mountains.

>>985689
Doesn't mean shit without providing a total terrain profile in elevation ascent

>>985750
>>985751
No elevation. Flat as fuark area.

>>985730
Effort and time aren't easily comparable. Speed is.
People really latched on to the "speed doesn't matter" thing and it's actually BS.
If it is flat and not very windy speed is extremely comparable for solo rides.

>>984743
>>984860
guarantee you live on the west coast or some faggy shit

no mountain biking for an hour in the winter on some snow mobile trails doesn't constitute training

you ever descend for 20 minutes when its 20f out and the wind chill is so bad from that your cock is encrusted in an icicle? doubt it

below about 28f its hard to do more than an hour if you dont break your leg from riding on ice and crashing

>>985321
no

it should say ftp for the last category, 20 minute of pros would be higher than that chart

also depends on the area of where you are racing, there are thousands and thousands of guys who race for fun on the weekends that have FTP of 5.2-5.5 w/kg.

some areas of the country will have those 5+w/kg in cat 3 and 2

majority of cat 4 and 5 are more like 4.0-4.5 w/kg

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>>984750
I can hit about 40 mph with a 53x11 on the flats with my road bike. I can hold this for a few miles before I burn out. I always end up running out of gearing with a 46t when in route to the trails.. I understand you think you are some eilte rider that 'knows' everything about biking but I think you are just weak as fuck.

>>985321
>tfw cat 1 in 5s and 1min , uci div I/II 5 min and UCI Div III pro 20min
>only cat 2
>not even on a team

Prolly cause I've racedd like 20 times and 10 of them were cat 4 races

>>985396
Well, then I guess you have to choose: ride on your bike paths and don't race (because you can't train correctly), ride on the roads regardless of how bad you say they are (not like you wouldn't be racing on them anyway, better get used to it!), get a stationary trainer and use that for training in your garage (say 'goodbye' to any bike handling skills though) or move somewhere there are good roads to ride on.

>>985824

You can def practice handling skills on rollers
No substitute for the real thing but...

>>985750
>>985751
These. Plus, you can only train at the level you can train at. Everyone starts out slower than their potential. Also, unless you were on a time trial specific bike, or at least riding for 45 minutes at threshold with your nose bumping into the handlebars, you were wasting lots of power to wind resistance anyway.

>>985760
No, when you're training, road speed really isn't relevant at all, not unless you're doing full-power sprints, and even then it's still not the same as if you were in an actual road race.

When you're racing, you only have to go faster than the other guys. Speed is relative. The only exception I'll consider here is if you're training for a TT, in which case you're literally racing against the clock.

>>985769
>it should say ftp for the last category, 20 minute of pros would be higher than that chart
I have another version of this with the same exact data except it says FTP instead of 20-minute. The implication, I think, is the 'do a 30-minute all-out TT and take the average power from the last *20* minutes' FTP test. I posted this version because the other is actually a spreadsheet.

>>985825
>You can def practice handling skills on rollers
Sure, if you're racing on the internet on rollers. Nothing can take the place of pack riding in close quarters, practicing pacelining, etc. If all you do is ride on a trainer then all you're doing is turning pedals, you're not riding. Glad I live in NorCal, I hate using trainers for anything other than warmups at downtown crits where there literally is no place to warm up.

>>985829

You seem like a complete douchenozzle.
You should give some serious consideration to suicide. It's not like you're living for anything anyway.

no1 here races

>>985081
Women can't into bike handling.

Riding a bike on straight paved or even cobbled roads isn't hard. However it becomes hard when you're in a peloton travelling above 40 km/h where everyone is trying to position for sprint. The women don't have as much experience and aren't as good as men so they make more mistakes.

>>986082
>this guy again

leave pls

>>984715
So I had something odd happen to me training last year vs this year.
I trained for last season so so much harder than this season, I ate a very strict diet I weighed about 10 pounds less, I was strict about training never missed anything. My overall performance lacked I had an extremely good sprint but nothing else. I was stuck a Cat 3 during my second season.

Now for this season I ate whatever, I missed training often, and my lifts in the gym were no where near last years. But the thing is my overall fitness shot up and I got my Cat 2 upgrade, my max watts are up about 200 and my ftp is up 10 watts.

So my question is what should I do for training this next off season?? I have a coach I'm just unsure if I should take it easy as fuck again or go really hard. I feel like this could ruin my season next year.

>>985829
yeah, theres also a difference in the ability to make that power outside of tests, lots of people can put up good numbers in tests, but when it comes down to doing that in an actual race, a lot will fall far short of things like their 20 minute power or 5 minute power that they achieved in testing

I have a 20 minute power that would put me at about 4.6 w/kg ftp, I cannot come close to doing 4.6w/kg average power for an hour.

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>>986126
To get your hour power, it's 95% or so of your 20 min (or is it your 30 min?) either way, 20 min is not your FTP.

I just did 2x10 thresholds today, did 361W for one of them. I couldn't do that for an hour. Given, my threshold is lower than 361, but I wanted to see what I could do for my second set.

>>986176
Watts on their own mean nothing.
Use watts per kg.

>>986178
No shit. I like saying the raw numbers so people can speculate what it'd be. For me 361 is 5.23 W/kg so not great but I could probably do two sets of 350 for 10 min seeing as my first set was 344 and my second was 361. 350 would be 5.07.

>>986178
watts per kg means nothing when not on a long climb

>>984766
>>takes me a couple hours to dismantle, clean, and re-lube everything that's all mucked up, so it doesn't just grind itself into scrap.

Just get some fenders, prevents all that nasty road spray from getting all over your gear and bike. But you shouldn't need to dismantle anything after every messy ride even riding in thick mud... spray it off, and re-lube the chain. Done. Sure some grit will penetrate over time, but fenders help reduce this greatly.

>>986212
skinny boy how tall are u

>>986126
Yes, that's all true, but the reason you fade trying to take your 20-minute average power and ride at that intensity for 60 minutes, is because you run out of *muscular* endurance. That's why earlier on you're doing sets of intervals at Threshold, and then later on you're doing long Threshold rides -- 40, 50, 60 minutes: you have to build your muscular endurance up to the point where you can sustain it that long.

>>986256
W/kg is a handy way of comparing power between two riders.

>>986260
I do have fenders. I do put them on when I know it's going to be wet out. All those do is help keep me from being completely covered in muck by the time I get home again. Just spraying down the bike with water and throwing lube on the chain is the lazy mans' way of 'cleaning up the bike' and will shorten the lifespan of the drivetrain considerably. Maybe you like throwing hundreds of dollars away every year replacing ruined drivetrain and other components, for no reason other than sloppiness and laziness, but I don't and I don't recommend anyone else be that sloppy or lazy either.

Is there some sort of training regime for gentlemen with a very busy schedule?

>>986382
Just ask Matt Stephens from GCN™ about how he won the nats while working full time and riding to work for training!

>>986382
it's called QUIT being a bitch

>>986262
6'1" lmao. Same height and weight as Froomey but without the watts

>>986445
How the fuk u guys get so small? I'm 5'8 and 75kg, I'm always amazed when my buddies who are much taller than me tell me they're like 65kg and shit

>>986382

>How do I get rich quick? Guyz??

>>986551
always been this way. When my peers started to be at an age to begin lifting, I did endurance sports. First running then cycling

>>986382
Go pick up a copy of 'The Time-Crunched Cyclist', apparently you can (up to a point, at least) race on training as little as 6 hours a week.

>>986445
Eh, the power comes with experience. Every year you retain a little more of the previous years' progress.

>>986551
Much of it is genetic.

>>986574
Let me guess: If you talk about your training and racing in detail in front of some of them now, they say things like "..and you do this voluntarily?" with a look on their faces like you're an escapee from an asylum for the violently insane, am I right?
>casuals

http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(16)30355-2

Scientists find ketogenic nutritients (ketones, not sure how to translate) that are tapped into before glycogenic storage during excercise. Study shows cyclists using drinks have the advantage of being on a ketonic diet (boosting fat burning process) as well as using dietary ketones to use in anaerobic excercise.

>>986777
They get hung up as soon as I said "I did 3 hours today..."

Anyone else experienxing extreme fatigue and sometimes even faiting when starting your cycling routine? It happens to me quite a lot but if I just rest a while it goes away and I can continue for many kms like nothing happened.

What is this shit?

>>987167

If I had to guess, I would guess you have ze diabetes.

>>987167
nothing near fainting but sometimes I do feel a bit sluggish and slow in the head at the start of a ride. Cant get heart rate up to decent levels and feeling slow. Half an hour later I can feel like a god and stay a god for the rest of the ride and day. This happens only about 1/10 rides and I think it happens only when I have slept very well.

Maybe you just sleep too much/sit on your ass too much and only unlock your true powerlevel when on the bike, but this requires some "waking up" at the start of the ride? Nearly fainting doesnt sound so good though m8, might want to see a doctor for that shit.

>>987167
Actually I used to get this until I was aware of what was happening. Essentially I was getting dehydrated and that was causing an extra drop in blood pressure and caused light headedness, fatigue, (nearly) fainting etc.

Then again, on the flip you could have some weird heart abnormality and be on the brink of death so...

>>987248

I would have died by now then. After this strange bump in performance I can do some serious pedaling without much trouble. I also noticed that this is cycling specific and does not occur in the gym when doing cardio or weight lifting.

>>987167
Don't eat before riding

>>987322
just go see a doctor okay ?

>>987186
I also get something similar once in a while. Also sometimes I have my head swim if I get up too quickly.
I think that it's an ironic side-effect of greater fitness. Your blood pressure and resting heart rate are low. You can be more explosive than any average person. You go from a near-resting state to normal riding speeds, and your heart rate sometimes takes a minute or two to catch up. It's probably nothing.

>>987167
I agree with the anon who mentioned dehydration. I find that if I am dehydrated I have very poor recovery and it will take a very long time to catch my breath after a hard effort. But if I get a good warm up and drink some water I'll be alright after.

I was 4 seconds off of KOM on a sprint segment on my local Strava today.
I am now beginning to understand what drives people to become weight/aero weenies.

When you get your first time trial-specific bike, you quickly learn an awful truth: no matter how many years' experience you have on a road bike, no matter how hard you train, no matter how long you can continuously sustain Threshold power, as soon as you get on that TT bike, with your forearms down on those pads and your hand gripping the aero bars, bent over at the waist at a 100 degree angle, your entire body just isn't optimized to produce that much power for the same amount of time; you're trading speed for power, and no amount of force of will can make your muscles work at Threshold levels in that body position. So you spend every ride you can on that bike, in that position, trying to get your body used to it, trying to get comfortable producing Threshold power continuously. Even if it means riding in the rain, with your aero helmet on, with a rain cape over you. But of course a total, filthy casual like you would know nothing of this; all you do is 'ride your bike'. You're not a triathlete; you're not a road racer training for stage race weekends and individual time trials. The only time you're going 30mph is downhill. But that's OK. Enjoy your ignorance. You can't miss what you'll never experience. In an ironic way, you're better off.

>>988094

>t. can't into bikefit

Future classic.

>>988094
you dum

>>988087
I didn't think this would occur to me either, yet I have become obsessive about upgrading components and maxing HR Zones

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>>988094

I fucking love this copypasta, you can smell the insecurity of the original poster.

>>988087
Is sprinting that much about total rider/bike weight or aerodynamics? I'd think it's more about anaerobic endurace and lactate tolerance. Weight maybe some, since you have to be able to accelerate your total mass, and I'd think that aerodynamics are pretty much shot to hell when you're standing on the pedals sprinting, am I right?

>>988131
>lactate tolerance
Excuse me; I really mean "lactate clearance".

>>988131
>standing on the pedals
look at caleb ewan's (or cav's) sprinting posture

sprinting performance is about power to relative aerodynamic efficiancy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsB_Ad_0p9g

I want to start training with an HRM, curious what people would recommend? I've seen garmin and wahoo straps, but i'm curious if there's chinese knockoffs that are roughly comparable quality and cheaper.

>>988153
Much of it is genetic.

>>988155
Not helpful.

>>988108
>implying that athletes in general aren't all insecure to start with, even if they hide it from everyone else

>>988153
You'll obviously want one that's Ant+ for widest range of compatibility with handlebar computers, or one that's Bluetooth so it's compatible with smartphone apps. Either way you'll probably want datalogging capability in whatever the HRM is connecting to, for post-ride analysis of performance.

>>988172
>anything you post, anywhere
>>>/trash/

>>988094
Is there any truth to any of this? I don't have a time trial bike but I want one. What am I in for when I get one?

>>988167
Thanks!

Right now I'm mainly using strava on my phone as my data logger, but I might pick up an edge 25 at some point.

>>988260

No. None.

However...

Fitting a TT bike is considerably more complicated than fitting a road bike. You are basically trying to make your body into the longest airfoil you can WITHOUT impairing your breathing or sacrificing the use of your strongest muscle groups. This is easy to fuck up, difficult and time-intensive to balance just right.

Additionally, the very steep seatpost angle & forward saddle position CAN potentially fail to make use of your strongest muscle groups while climbing in the saddle. This is part of the price you pay for optimizing performance on the flats & descents. It's a balancing act.

Basically the pasta was by someone with a totally, utterly fucked fit who thought they were hot shit.

>>988330
with the seatpost angle and saddle position fuck with my balls

>>988167
>>988289
I have a Wahoo and a Garmin Premium HR monitors.
Prefer the Wahoo monitor to the Garmin monitor, but prefer the Garmin strap. Luckily they're interchangeable so I use the Wahoo monitor on the Garmin strap.

Garmin is ANT+ only, Wahoo is BT and ANT+, so really you'd be better off going for the Wahoo even though they are a bit more expensive..

I also use Strava on my phone. Huge screen, factory spec'd huge battery (7h ride and I think I had about 40% battery left), full maps, instant upload. Why would I want to downgrade to a Garmin?!

Actually, can anybody actually answer that. What can a Garmin do that a decent phone (that you already own) and a Topeak phone drybag can't do?

>>988393
Garmin GPS is a LOT more accurate and frequently recording, your phone has a nice battery but garmin's are nicer, and in my experience the rare crashes have recovered decently.

You can also get maps on higher end models.

>>988094
Must be the same faggot who posted this thread: >>988929

>>988710
Does anyone actually use GPS when they're training?
I originally bought a Joule when they upgraded my Powertap hub to G3, but two of them died so they 'upgraded' me to a Joule GPS for free. The only time I use the GPS is if I'm on a team ride and someone provides a .tcx file of the route we're taking.

What do you guys do for nutrition?

whats a typical days worth of food like for you guys?

do you do something like drink a protein shake after your rides?

protein intake?

Why would anyone buy any other power meter that isn't a PowerPod considering it's a quarter of the price of most other brands and is at most 2-4% less sensitive or accurate than top-of-the-line Quarq or SRM meters?

>>989375
>>989375
Because it's a grossly inaccurate piece of crap; it's literally a troll-meme for your handlebars. The only thing that could possibly be worse than that, is PowerTap's PowerCal heart rate strap. I originally got one of those by mistake when I got my G3 PowerTap hub and Joule, and I kid you not I'd be sitting there not even moving and it'd flash rediculous power readings at me, completely out of left field.

>>989003
I'm talking about stuff like sperg-outs on strava where the GPS drops out or fails to update for a time, not actual navigation. It's how people end up with 120 km/h average speed on short segments and fuck the leaderboards.

>>989406
Did you make an attempt to calibrate it or troubleshoot with the aid of the manual or asking online? They're very timely with replying to questions, and I haven't had any problems with mine to speak of

>>989529
What does calibration have to do with the fact that it cannot detect differences in rider posture?

>>989530
What direct measurable data can be gained by rider posture if not by inherent fluxuations in wattage due to posture changes? Also, have you tested it alongside your PowerTap to test this inaccuracy, or are you just making an unfounded opinion? I don't bean to come off as brash, I'm genuinely curious as to how you established such a conclusion

>>989543
I read DCRainmaker's review, and the comments.

It measures wind speed, direction, gradient. How can it possibly know?

>>989548
Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. Rider posture can be an important variable to consider, however how does knowing this augment a wattage readout or accuracy?

>>989562
If you're on the drops, or clip on aero bars, or the forearms with the 90° angle, then your air resistance will be appreciably less than say, riding upright on the tops. So the power required to travel at a particular speed is less.

It is my understanding the power pod has no way to know this, so it may over or under read depending on how your riding posture.

A normal power meter measures the physical strain on a particular component which has no relation to rider position or anything like that.

>>989570
Thanks, that makes complete sense. For clarification I never said the PowerPod was without its limitations (for its pricepoint, it has to be lacking some features), however for non-Cat 2 riders and up (which is at least 95% of all cyclists), I contend that for not being a DFPM, it's estimable. Additionally with the PowerStroke upgrade the software demonstrates wattage losses in cadence and sustained riding, so they provide at least something in the way of what you're talking about

>>989562
Are you trying to defend the powerpod? By design it's inaccurate, it seems like they made it to appeal to the cheap crowd who make the argument you're making.
You get what you pay for. Unfortunately people who buy that are paying for a random number generator.

>>989575
So it's price point with the powerstroke is $388. New powertap is $599 just for the hub, without looking very hard $400 for a used current generation hub built into a wheel already.

Definitely not worth buying a powerpod.

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>broke my wrist last month and decided to register for 2 more races instead of getting it fixed
>pain is like getting a tooth drilled without anesthesia
>4 more days till i can get it fixed
>mfw
>my face is literally an ultra rare collectors edition shitpost from the strava thread on/n/

hub based power meters are crap
power pod is crap

4iii is 400 bucks
stages is 560

>>989597
very compelling argument

Since everyone here is on about DFPM's I'll ask here: is buying a secondhand SRM power meter a bad idea? Also, is there a software component or anything data-wise that a secondhand buyer cannot access that the previous owner could?

2 training related questions, by the way im halfway through the cyclist's training bible, so i do understand (to some point) the importance of resting and the common error of overtraining. still doing the math tough.

-ive seen pros also working out on rest days in big races like the tdf. they say something like its not good to fully rest cause your body shuts down too much and stuff like that. whats up with these dudes? is there a point where your riding level is so power demanding that rest is not really rest but just riding more relaxed? any insights on this?

-is it possible to ride a full year withut doing other sports like friel suggests? like keep riding at good level with peaks and stuff but stay fit all year long?. are there any downsides besides monotony and having to deal with weather? . something like its better for the muscle to have "long rests"and then start building again? or in other words.. can i always have a base built and try not to loose it? then owrk on top of it full year around?

thanks, and sorry for my crappy english, peace!

>>989671
Quark riken. Best vfm.

Tomorrow: off
Sat: leadout practice 2/3hrs
Sun: 5/6hrs @ endurance/tempo
Mon: chaingang 2hrs
Tues: 25x1 min @ z7
Wed: 3x20 min @ftp (319w)
Thurs: 10x5 min @VO2Max + handling drills
Fri: no target; easy spin.

>>989603
why would you want a hub based power meter

you can only use one wheelset
you have to pay to get the wheelset built up, or build it yourself but you gotta buy a bunch of shit to build the wheel

4iii and stages are cheaper and its much better to be able to switch the crank onto different frames if need be instead of it being stuck on one wheelset

Don't know if this is the right thread but

How crazy am I if I decide to cycle all of Netherlands coast if I haven't cycled since I was a kid?

I live in a very cycle unfriendly country so I dropped it years ago, but I (did) enjoy it

Not looking for a race or challenge anything, just a relaxed cycling holiday

>>989675
Quarq is SRAM's making, which almost ubiquitously uses a BB30 standard, for which my frame is incompatible with (it is BSA)

>>989445
>cheating on Strava
With minimal knowledge it's easy to cheat on Strava.

>>989529
I've never owned one. I researched them when they came out, and discovered that it's an inaccurate piece of crap. It makes at least as many assumptions about various important parameters as the calorie meter on treadmills at your local gym. I'm sure it's fine for the Gran Fondo crowd or anyone who is casually training, but for anyone serious about training it's just an expensive toy that lacks the accuracy necessary. Frankly if you want best bang for the buck you may as well stick with just a heart rate monitor.

Here's some advice for you: Watch Craigslist, you can sometimes find someone selling their used PowerTap wheel for a good price. I picked up a 2nd one from a guy for $150, works perfectly fine, and if and when I decide to do so, I can send it in to PowerTap and pay to get it upgraded to the current G3 model if I like.

>>989548
>It measures wind speed, direction, gradient. How can it possibly know?
It can't. It makes assumptions.

>>989570
I second this.
Also, the thing has no way to accounting for wind conditions.

>>989575
>for non-Cat 2 riders and up (which is at least 95% of all cyclists), I contend that for not being a DFPM, it's estimable
If all you're doing is riding in Zone 2, then I'm sure it's fine. But considering how narrow Zone 3, 4, and 5a are, I wouldn't waste my time or money on it. I don't need to think I'm training at Threshold when it's only Tempo, or vice-versa, just like I don't need to think I'm doing anaerobic intervals when it's only Threshold. I really don't need to 'save' a couple hundred bucks in cash when the real cost is having my training sabotaged by something that's so wildly inaccurate as to be useless.

Also we're not talking about something you have to replace every year or every two years. For more or less everyone you buy something like a PowerTap hub once, and maybe every 2-3 years you need to send it in for bearing replacement. If it's something like a Quarq, you'll likely never need to send it in for anything, ever. So for the most part it's a one-time investment. Considering it's something you're buying to make your training as effective as possible, why cheap out on it? Makes no sense.

>>989712
>why would you want a hub based power meter
Until recently all there was, was PowerTap, and SRM. Things like Quarq are more recent, as are power-measuring pedals from various manufacturers.
Also, unless you really need the data, why do you care what your power is at in the middle of a race? In a crit or circuit race you really don't have the time to have your eyes glued to a display. In the middle of any road race, what does it matter what your power is? You do what you have to do to not get dropped if there is a big surge, or what you have to do to bridge up to a breakaway, or keep up on a climb, or to win the sprint. You're not going to go "oh well, I guess I'll just get dropped on this 5 mile climb because I don't want to go above Threshold", you either do it or you don't. Power meters of any kind are training tools. You might ride with your PowerTap wheel in a 'B' or 'C' priority race, because they're mainly training anyway (even if you're still trying to win), but for an 'A' priority race, you bring your best along with your 'A' game.

>>989716
You need to work up to it. Endurance isn't something you acquire in a week or two if you don't have it already, more like 2-3 months of riding several times a week and increasing time in the saddle.

>>989712
Oh and by the way Stages and 4iii are single crankarms so they only measure power from your left leg then double it to give you an *estimate* of your actual power. If you want to stay away from a hub-based power meter like PowerTap then you may as well get power-measuring pedals, at least that way you get power from both legs and not just one, and with the unique added bonus of power balance between left and right legs.

>>989672
>-ive seen pros also working out on rest days in big races like the tdf.
It's called 'active recovery'. See 'E1' in the workout menu in the back of the book.
Spinning easy for an hour the day after a hard ride can actually speed recovery. Getting your heart rate up from resting, muscles warm, blood vessels open, and blood circulating helps move out wastes and bring in nutrients.

>like keep riding at good level with peaks and stuff but stay fit all year long?
No. Sooner or later you'll burn out, physically and/or mentally. At the very least you'd hit a plateau and ride mediocre all the time. At the worst something in your body would finally give way and force you off the bike, or you'd get sick, or mentally/emotionally you'd just get so burned out on riding that you wouldn't even want to think about riding let alone doing it.

The whole point of periodized training is to prevent things like the above from happening, while allowing your fitness and performance to peak a couple times a year, when races that are important are happening.

>>989783
I also want to say this on the subject: If someone thinks that they can stay at their peak 12 months out of the year, year after year, then they either go by the name Wolverine and have claws that come out of their forearms, or they're just not training hard enough to actually challenge themselves, and they just THINK they're at their peak all the time. It's like the guys you inevitably come across that claim that they don't need Recovery weeks in their training; they're not training hard enough to need them.

>>989779
A very valid point.
The way I sees PMs is that you use it mostly for training, examining the data and making adjustments to training so you can analyse your ctl, atl and tsb.
The reason why it's handy in races is having the data feedback afterwards and also in a break it's handy (but not strictly necessary) "I see I'm above my CP, need to chill out a bit"

>>989784
The other thing about having a recovery week is so that your TSB surges upwards while your ATL diminishes while your CTL declines only a tiny bit.
You gain form, fatigue goes down and your fitness stays about the same in other words.

>>989882
No, your overall fitness increases, that's the whole point of training. Supercompensation is a real thing. Without it you'd never improve.

>>989784
People used to think that, pros today stay pretty fucking fit the entire year. Maybe a month off with a couple rides but most are riding hard year round now.

>>989952
>with chemical recovery aids

What's the technique for getting up hills?

I've just started riding on a shitty bike after more than a decade and I'm so unfit I struggle with small inclines. I dont want to blame my equiplent too much because its too useful an excuse. I'm sure it's mostly my lack of fitness and I probably need to push myself harder, which is a case of building confidence in my self, but I know I could help myself if I had a better idea what I should be doing.

I don't know if this is really the thread but I didn't think it was worth making a new one.

>>989956
>What's the technique for getting up hills?
HTFU and pedal harder for longer. Seriously, there's no technique. You just shift to a gear where you can maintain a comfortable cadence and spin away. If the climb is quite steep you might be climbing very slowly, so being able to control your bike at <10km/h speeds is a plus.
If you don't have a gear low enough to climb sitting down at a comfortable cadence - by all emans, blame your equipment. Buy a wider cassette or compact chainring.

>>989972
>HTFU and pedal harder
I figured that was most of it. I feel like I slow down to such a crawl I can barely keep upright most of the time. I'll try pushing myself to within an inch of my life later on. I've been pretty annoyed that my legs aren't hurting enough afterwards anyway.

It's not a bike i'd spend money on though, it's completely barebones and about as cheap as you can buy. I'm planning on getting something better after i've proven to myself I can stick at riding regularly.

Having said that I do want to go try some out soon, just to get an idea what sort of difference it makes. I have no point of reference right now because I've only ever ridden cheap trash.

I'll fuck off now anyway, I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have.

>>989976
If its not that tall a hill but steep, try building up as much speed as you can before you hit it to get some momentum up

>>989978
That's how beginners climb and that's how you blow up on a climb. Maintaining the same cadence is ideal shifting when you need to before it's too late.

>>989983
Right yeah, but if he's not fit enough to climb up a hill steadily yet then it'll help him while he's getting in shape.

>>989976
>I feel like I slow down to such a crawl I can barely keep upright most of the time.
So practice riding slow. Which can be nigh impossible if you can shift to a low enough gear that you can spin. If you're standing and mashing you're going to swerve some.

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>>989932
Blue line (chronic training load) is your fitness
Pink (acute training load) is your fatigue
Yellow (training stress balance) is your form.
When your tsb peaks, your ctl drops as a result of your atl reducing from diminished training intensity.
Read skiba and coggan. Friel isn't the be all and end all of training.

>>989952
Sure but they're not at their PEAK all year long.
I can do Tempo rides once a week during the Fall and Winter and keep more of my overall fitness without fatiguing myself too much, but I'm not out doing hour-long Threshold rides in November either. Staying "pretty fit" is very relative.

>>989956
>What's the technique for getting up hills?
Simple. Don't go anaerobic unless it's a short enough hill that you can get away with it without killing yourself off and ending getting dropped on the backside. Otherwise try to spin faster rather than hammering so you save your muscular endurance as much as possible for the steeper climbs where you don't have a choice but to hammer at low cadence.

>>990084
>Friel isn't the be all and end all of training.
Sure but learning to self-coach is an ongoing process so expecting me or anyone else to have read and seen every last thing on the subject that exists on the planet is unrealistic.

I (obviously) won't comment on anything you're saying until I can do my own research.

>>987323
Unless the person youre responding to is morbidly obese, trying to ride without calories will only exacerbate the problem

m8s I'm genuinely contemplating upgrading to Q-Rings on my Rotor 3D crankset. Does all the "science" about improved pedaling efficiency across all terrains show verisimilitude or is it a meme?

>>990084
>>990209
>Friel isn't the be all and end all of training.
I should also say this for the record: I don't think there's "one right way to train", I don't always do everything Friel says to do, and I do some things that Friel never says anything about doing, too; Friel also doesn't always explain things properly or completely, leading to mistakes, until you figure them out for yourself. I don't test myself like Friel wants you test yourself (although I'll be incorporating some of his testing methods as supplemental testing), I use something Chris Carmichael came up with. All that being said, I've come a long ways using most of Friels' methods, and being somewhat conservative about how I train myself, I'll stick to them for the most part until if and when I have reason to do otherwise. Really, I'm finding that, in the spirit of "no 'one right way' to train", a blending of various methods works rather well, so I keep and open mind about these things -- but I still take what I hear and read with a grain of salt until I see for myself how they actually work out. Reasonable?

>>990238

I rode Q-rings for a season.
They're very nice and do seem to work as-advertised.

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>>984715
going to start running cross country on Monday
this will officially bring an end to my life as a NEET, although I will still continue to receive NEETBUX. as a reward for myself, at the end of the year I plan on building up a garbon road bike with a mixed Ultegra Dura-Ace group. pretty much everything will be Ultegra except for the rear shifting which will be 9 speed Dura-Ace. my gearing will be 11-25 53-38.

I was pretty fast in high school track, running a 4:32 1600m, training exclusively during the season. now I plan on training on the off season too!
I realize I probably need to up my mileage to get good at road racing.

I'll be getting up at 5:45 to take the bus on Mondays and Wednesdays and hopefully be getting a ride around 7:20 the rest of the week with the qtπ coach who also lives in my town.
</blog>

>>990275
>my gearing will be 11-25 53-38

why would you do that to yourself

>>990277
gotta go fast. I've done a 5.2 mile climb with an average grade of 6.9% fairly comfortably with 42-25 gearing while in mediocre shape, so I think 38-25 would get me through most climbs in most races when I'm at peak fitness. maybe this isn't the case though.

>>990280
I'm leaning towards 11-32 and 52-36 semi-compact as a likely endpoint for my roadie. It's very hard to actually justify though when the old stuff still works fine, will work for a very long time and replacing it is quite expensive, though.

You get a bit less granularity but a lot more range.

>>990281
>though though though

*a lot more range and basically the same top gear

>>990280
also the climb was done on a 21 pound bike (9.52 kg) vs my target 14.99 pounds (6.8 kg)
>>990281
funny because changing the gearing on my current bike cost me pretty much nothing

if I ever compete in a grand tour, I'll probably use an 11-28 t b h

>>990275
how will you not be a neet ? are you getting paid to run?

Don't 'build up' an archaic group you fucking moron, 9 speed DA sucks balls, a new tiagra alloy bike will be infinitely superior.

>>990275
"so anon, what do you do"
"I'm an amateur professional athlete"

>>990284
it's for the local JC
and I need to be a fulltime student in order to compete. so I'm taking
web design
jazz appreciation
spanish
the only way I can fathom old DA sucks balls is that it's probably like half an ounce heavier than modern DA
>>990286
no man I plan on running XC at Rio this year

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>>990287
>web design
>jazz appreciation
>spanish

>>990287
9 speed da is on par with 3500 sora. Believe it or not shimano improves their technology.

t. rode a 9 speed DA carbon tomasso for a year when i lived in a mountain range.

>>990288
so in your honest opinion what should I go for if I want a top of the line 9 speed rear mech?
the classes are like 50$ each

>>990290
I'm beginning to think it's not worth bothering with this since I can keep the Ultegra 11 speed and just not use the easiest gears. thanks anon for showing me the error in my ways.

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>>990287
you're a little bit late m8

>>990290
That guy is kind of full of shit. Sora uses plastic in the derailleurs, the parts are more cheaply made.

The reason why modern Sora is better than vintage DA is mostly because they're similar, except that the DA is more expensive and has tens of thousands of miles of wear on it already.

The only thing Sora is better at than vintage DA is improved hood shape and being new.

>>990290
tourney

>>990275
>>990283
>>990287
>>990288
>>990290
>>990291
>>990295
>>990297
forget everything I said about rear shifting
>>990298

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIN1qY56Nx8
I'm getting this shit with 28-11

>beginner starting to gain endurance
>nowhere spectacular to ride
>have to ride at night because texas summer

My fore arms are really fucking sore when I'm done riding, and I don't think it's related to my saddle. What can I do to help?

>>990253
>reasonable?
≥reasonable!
It's good to be open. A book I'd recommend is training with a power meter by Andy coggan. It's pretty dense reading as is Skiba's thesis on power curves. Worth the read though.

>>990238
Load of shite!
They throw out power meter readings and make it much easier to throw your chain off your rings. If they were that good then why doesn't every pro cyclist use them?

>>990325
>If they were that good then why doesn't every pro cyclist use them?
But a lot do, even when it infringes their drivetrain sponsorship contracts. Froome is a good example, he uses Q-Rings rather frequently in the Tour, although Shimano or Campy is very strict with the tenants of their contract stipulations, top riders often use different components (Fizik saddles when they're sponsored by Selle SMP, for example) as unbranded items.

Otherwise you're correct about the instability with power meter readings

>>989675
What. 25x1. Is this a real schedule? How much do you weigh negro

>>990389
Even more fun: he says they're in zone 7, aka zone 5c. So he's doing 25 1-minute sprints?
>RIP OP

>>990389
>>990568
I'm 186cm and weigh 72kg on a good day, been down as low as 67kg but I figured there aren't any races I'm eligible for that warrants that sort of thing.
Yup, 25 one minute all out efforts. That is with 4 mins rest between efforts. RIP is literally how I feel from halfway through until long afterwards! But hey ho, the road to 1st cat is a tough one.

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>>990389
>10x5 minute VO2max

>that entire schedule

>>990635
Who is writing your training schedule?

>But hey ho, the road to 1st cat is a tough one.
What category are you right now?

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so i did a 3.5 hour endurance ride today. tomorrow is rest day and i usually do some easy recovery for 30-45 miutes.
heres the thing i need help with (please dont hate): im getting into bmx and i trully suck at it (street bmx). im working bunny hops and manuals. as im not trained and have bad technique i usually feel that muscles in my arms and back suffer the most. also when cruising around legs work like when youre out of the saddle..and they work quite a bit.

the big question: if tomorrow i go out and bmx for a couple hours.. or maybe even one hour, will it fuck up my road bike training?

any smart advice or tip anyone can give me so i can spend time on the bmx and not fuck up road bike training? how would you address it?

thanks bros, im really lost here. btw my training is based on friel's book.

>>990661
I know a few elite cyclists who are giving me a hand with schedule. I do need to point out that this isn't every week!
I got my 2nd cat license earlier this year and then did some big boy races. Although I could keep up, that was about all I could do so it was back to the drawing board in terms of training. Got a powermeter to track training much more effectively, got mates to help out with coaching.

>>989956
I made it guys; I just needed to dig in. Also rode further than I have before at the same time. On a high right now.

Hi guys

Chris Froome here, I'm a professinoal biek racer. I can help y with alll you need for traing. Pleas ask me


I helped >>990882 come up with his schedule
he is totally legit and not lying

>>990896
How did you let a non-country beat us, mate?

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>>990896
>Chris Froome here
Why didn't you chug it down like a real man?

>>990896
Ha, what on earth would I stand to gain from lying anonymously?
I meant domestic pros, not international pros.

>>990990
Personally I don't think your "training schedule" is for real, unless someone helping you is trolling you, hard.

Post screencaps of power data of past workouts of the schedule you posted, for our analysis. You can edit out your name and other personal information. But otherwise its pretty unrealistic looking.

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>>991073
Warm up
10x2min
Cool down

Etc.

>>991132
>photo of the screen

anon, please

>>991134
It took me ages to get that photo developed

>>991134

Mac user what did you expect?

1 week until my first 10 mile tt, wish me luck

>>991132
I don't see any 60-second zone 5c sprints in there. I see some less than 10 second sprints, which amount to jumps, basically. The rest look more like plain old anaerobic intervals. Map out your training Zones for us, please?

>>991241
>>991132
I'm speculating/extrapolating based on a small portion of rides but essentially his ftp is ~320 and his vo2 power is ~375 and his peak 5s is probably 1150

fuck i wanna do a hillclimb so bad god damn

>>991246
>peak 5s is probably 1150
That would put him about mid Cat-3, if he's actually 72kg; your hand-waving estimate of his FTP would put him mid Cat-2.
I dunno, legit or not, you think? That 'schedule' makes me wonder, though.

>>991272
I dunno about where you are, but hillclimbs, and all other TT's, seem to very often get cancelled. It's annoying as fuck.

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>>991241
ignore the automatic power zone matches that GC produces and look at the laps instead. 2mins on 1 min off

>>991246
>>991293
as I said, this week's schedule isnt every single week as that would be madness.

>>991345
3 min off even...

>>991132
crit with average speed around 18mph
sprints around 900w
1minute power around 350
cat 5 confirmed

>>991945
I'll point you to my other post >>991345

>>991945
>>991974
>cat 5 confirmed
Easy enough to settle.
Just post your USAC race license, with timestamp. Block out your license number, name, and what team you're on. All we're interested in, is your Category and age.

>>992216
>>991945
>>991293
>>991246
My license.
>>991345
My post with my power data

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>>992340
Forgot pic lel

>>992342
>no timestamp

>>984730
I had an FSA SLK crankset... Never again!
The spindle gets washed out faster than any other crankset, which translates to lots of play in the front rings which means it the chain eats the front derailleur and drop the chain often.
Got a Quark Riken recently. Overjoyed with it!

>>992534
Thanks, since I've posted this I've decided to pony up and buy a Rotor 3D crank with a Power2Max meter,as I was going to upgrade my cranket anyway

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Hey guys, I did some Jumps (P1 in the CTB training menu). I don't think I did too great on these. Are they any good?

>>992808
What's your weight

>>992812
about 77kg

>>992808
>>992842
Good for a pure sprinter no. Possibly enough to win a pro/1/2 sprint.. in a crit or RR.yes. If you have a good ftp/vo2 and can do your peaks after 2 hour crit at 30mph.

>>992921
>win
You think so, 2bh? I'm 69kg and can do 1060 for 12s, not sure of my 5s. I'm a 3, but I've also just started racing road so my tactics are horrible

>>992921

Holy molee, 2 hours at 30mph is typical/possible?

>>992938
If you're inside the peloton sure.

>>992938
You lose about half the wind resistance by riding in a group. Slightly less if your in the front to or very back, but it's still a big advantage.

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>>992931
>2 hour crit

theres a dude around me thats a domestic pro and wins crits (and stage races around here) and shit and his max power is less than 1100w, (hes pretty small)

>>992950
this isn't thta rare in pro/1/2. u should get out more.

>>992941
>>992931

It's the corners in a crit that'll ruin you. The further back from the front you are the more work you have to do out of every corner. Stay near the front and don't be afraid to get on the front now and then. If you're at the front and the pace drops too much I can guarantee you someone will come flying past and you'll need to work to either reel them in (which is probs what will happen if you go after them from the front of the pack) or bridge to a potential break.
If the race feels like it's slowing up constantly sit about 1/4 way down the field and wait until it slows again and use the pack's drop in momentum to launch yourself clear. You might stay away, you might get drawn back. Who knows? That's part of the fun! Gave everything to a break and you won, fantastic feels. Gave everything to a break and got reeled in, no regrets you gave it everything.

Easiest way to win a 3/4/5 crit race is to go off the front with 3k to go. No one will want to chase after you because they'll all be "saving myself for the sprint"
Unless you're being led out by someone (not necessarily a team mate) it's better to go from slightly further out in a sprint and from further down the field. If you can pre-empt the surge and sprint onto the back of it you'll be going up through their draught which will see you in better stead.

>>992953
show me a 2 hour crit

>>993011
first and foremost... https://www.strava.com/activities/548824683/analysis/154/5597

>>993041
That's pro nats. typically, P/1/2 crits are one and a half hours. a two hour crit is pretty uncommon so speaking as if they are common is fairly wrong

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Lads, what's your least fav workout?

Me personally, it's MTB starts. 2 sets of 2x3 min at full gas from stop with a foot down (like an mtb start). It's hard for me to get in the race mode while training so it's really a mentally tough workout for me rather than physically. Full gas for 3 min is also terrible as fuck if it's not all uphill.

>>993101
i said it as an exaggeration to make an example.1:30 crits regularly run a hair over that

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>>993113
you sounded pretty sure

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I did my most gruelling ride this morning with a local roadie club. I normally only ride in the city and this only made me love riding in the highway. Am I doing this right or is there an easier way to git gud and keep up with my new roadie buddies next time?

>>993901
Is the city flat? Do you normally ride 1200m of elevation?

Best way to get faster uphill to is ride up hills.

>>993902
It's not flat. But it doesn't have 1200 meter climbs. It was my third or fourth time out on the highway, but there are some hilly areas in the citt. I never climbed that much before, it was insane for a rookie like me. I'll try to ride more in the hilly areas. Thanks anon!

>>993907
Where is this? Cali?

>>993920
Oh wait you use meters... Nevermind. Still, where?

>>993815
fukcoing asshole you are embarrtassing me online please don't

>>993921
Guadalajara, México.

New to serious bike riding/training.

How are the training plans on the british cycling website?

>>993947
I wouldn't trust it, britains rarely do well at cycling which is dominated by europeans

>>993947
Get the Cyclist's Training Bible. It's basically the Starting Strength of bike training.

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I just started riding about a month ago, how shitty am I?

>>993901
You have to push past what you perceive as your 'limits' in order to spark the changes that create improvement in performance. As counter-intutitive as it might sound on the surface, FGRs (fast group rides) where you're off the back of the pack, week after week, will help you do exactly that. Training alone is relatively structured compared to an actual road race, where anything can happen; your typical FGR is, if done properly, as unstructured as an actual road race. You need some of that random unpredictability to help you break through your limits. So while it's somewhat humiliating to get your ass handed to you, week after week by guys who are so much better and stronger than you are RIGHT NOW, it's serving an important purpose in your overall training. As someone I used to know would say, "Humility is part of the training process".

>>993947
There's no such thing as the 'one right way to train', and you'll find overall training 'plans' that range all the way from 'just ride lots', which has little to no structure, all the way to strict implementations of The Cyclists Training Bible, where the vast majority of your training is planned out and structured. There's a guy on my team that only has time to ride 3 days a week, and it's all race-like group rides, and he places well when he races. Point us towards the website you're talking about and we'll give our opinions of it.

>>993923
Well, you're sure to get teased and bullied endlessly, now that everyone knows your skin is so thin.

>>993987
yeah, and when I'm going at it alone I don't push myself as hard as I do when I'm trying to keep up with some dudes or stay on the back of a very fast someone who's doing me a solid with a leadout

it's kinda like masturbation vs real sex desu

>>993982
not bad for being new but work in some all-out sprints on the flats and find a few decent hills to crush, although that area looks pretty flat

but man that route has to be gorgeous to ride on

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>>993992
Finding hills is a bit of a problem, my elevation change there was about as high as it goes around here. Although there is constant 20-40km wind working against me.
I'll do that just! It can be beatiful sometimes (lots of coastline buildings) but the roads are usually pretty terrible.

What's a good average speed to shoot for on flats?

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>>994012

>>993992
You can simulate hills by switching up to a harder gear or two, dropping your cadence to what it would be on a hard climb, and pedaling harder. It's not quite the same set of dynamics as actually climbing, but it's better than nothing.

Also I don't think you understand what a 'leadout' actually is.

Did my first crit for geared bikes today, in the class where you don't need a racing license.
I'm planning to do a few more this year to learn how to race and then start racing in D(lowest cat here) next year.

Good idea or no
https://www.strava.com/activities/675761262

>>994012
...companheiro, can we have a chat about your bicycle setup?

>>994041
Yeah I know. I went the cheap route and got the most basic setup I could. Frame is most likely the wrong size, and I rotated the handle bar up to get a faux STI grip feel to it.
I'm planning on selling this bike this month and going with a Meridian frame and do everything right. For now though, I'll just keep riding.

>>994053

What is your height & inseam?

>>994068
I'm 5'6 and 76.2cm inseam (king of manlets), which comes to a frame size of 51 dead.

I think mine is 52, but even with the seat where it is, I barely reach the floor. And if I were to raise it higher, I'd also have to raise my handlebar so my arms aren't straight when riding.
If I stand with the frame between my legs, it's a snug fit unless I move forward since the frame rises up. So yeah...

Anything else wrong with the bike setup that I should know about and try to fix? >inb4 get longer legs

>>994035
did the definition of a leadout change from being the dude who lets a sprinter draft until it's go time

>>994080

Your arms should never be straight when riding.

Raise your fucking saddle, raise your fucking bars, and rotate them to the correct alignment.

>I think mine is 52, but even with the seat where it is, I barely reach the floor

Your foot not reach the floor while you are riding in the saddle.

>Anything else wrong with the bike setup that I should know about and try to fix?

Almost everything.

Also, you're a girl not a manlet. It's obvious.

>>994114
>Almost everything.
Explain.

>>994117

Everything in the picture is so completely wrong it's like a parody of a troll bike. Platform pedals on a road bike, stem shifters, a cable lock wrapped around the seatpost, and crosschained to top it all off. All this on top of the completely, utterly fucked saddle height & bar rotation.

For fuck's sake the fucking TUBES are mismatched - schraeder & presta, with the fucking valve cap still on the presta.

>>994122
Pedals is easy to replace, so are the other things. Got a flat tire, went to buy replacement tube and the only ones had schraeder valves.
I'm not gonna go buy and replace my other tube because of a fucking valve lol.

Stem shifters will be gone (along with the horrible fucking brakes) soon as I'm getting a STI system for the bike.
The only reason the handlebar is rotated Is because there's literally no support for my hands other than on the straight part.

Don't worry anon, meme bike will soon be fixed. Can't say the same for my cotton hill legs.

>>994125
>because there's literally no support for my hands other than on the straight part.

This suggests to me that you are too far forwards on the bike as well. Your hands shouldn't really need much support or purchase - you should be resting most of your weight on the saddle, balanced against the force of your pedaling.

You should strongly consider forgoing your dubious STI upgrade and pay for a proper bike fit instead. It will have FAR greater impact on your comfort and performance.

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>>994126
What I mean by uncomfort is the angle of my hands when I grasp the handlebar.

Pic related, surely there's a reason that STI's have a hand support? I'm not complaining about too much weight but rather too much wrist rotation.
Though sure, it can also be a frame issue but either way even if I were to get a proper frame, I'd still have to buy a STI system.

>>994128

The "hand support" is used as a secure grip while sprinting out of the saddle.

Seated riding you have your hands comfortably on the flat area of the bars & hoods.

You SERIOUSLY know nothing about this stuff and your misconceptions seem to be total.

>>994129
>You SERIOUSLY know nothing about this stuff and your misconceptions seem to be total.

That's why I'm here asking questions :3
Don't get mad anon, relax.

>>994095
No, it didn't, but and I think perhaps you're not who I thought you were; sorry about that!

>>993973
ayyy

>>993981
alright, sounds pretty promising.

>>993987
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20140129--2013-14-Intermediate-and-advanced-training-plans-introduction-0

this is the plan. the beginner one is designed for someone who wants to attempt a 60 mile ride (which i've already done a few times) so i figured this one would be a better target (100 mile ride)

What's the best relatively cheap HRM strap? I'm trying to improve my training analytics.

>>994192
http://m.gearbest.comhttp://m.gearbest.com/bike-computers/pp_364844.html
I'm no expert but this one seems to be pretty decent for the price. I'll probably review it once mine arrives.

>>994192
The only advice I have is that you might be better off with a HRM that is Ant+ compatible rather than something that is just 'wireless', because often enough they don't adhere to any kind of standard, and if either the handlebar comp or the chest strap dies on you, you have to replace the entire set. Besides which if you decide to get a power meter of some sort later on, it'll be Ant+ anyway.

>>990302

If your shift strategy doesn't suck you don't need that at all unless you're in the top 1% of riders in your area.

Just curious: What do all you typically eat for breakfast on race day morning?

>>994553
I'm buying an edge 500 with cadence from a friend, and so the HRM will be an add on.

>>993981
does it require me to drink a galon of milk?

>>994989
Overnight oats are amazing. No worries about cooking.

>>995005
Interesting, I've heard that oats are something you should avoid on race day morning, presumably because of the fiber.

>>995043
I haven't had issues, and I like the good combination of carbs, ability to add whatever other nutrients/flavorings I want to, and not having to worry about cooking breakfast in the morning.

>>995003
LOL no, not unless you really want to.

>>994989
A can of Rockstar, half a box of Crispix cereal with about a pint of 2% milk mixed with 50 grams of whey protein, then another can of Rockstar on the way to the race venue. Never fails me.

>>995043
It's something you should avoid on a date day. Wouldn't want to fart all over your date

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>>995075
whattafugg

>>994989
Steak.

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>cavendish

>>995179
apparently it's not really his fault

didnt even win tho lmao

How fast do you guys go over a sustained distance of maybe 60 km?

>>995318
It's not his fault, but he did it on purpose because the guy behind him was shadowing him. The other guy shouldn't have looked away when he did. It was a mistake that was supposed to spook the dude off his wheel.

Still fuck Cav for that one. It's a sign you're well respected if someone is following you around like that, it may be frustrating but that's the game.

>>995179
isn't this illegal ?

>>995388
Not if you're famous

>>995390
what place did he end up ?

>>995391
Silver. He should just quit. The peloton is sick of his shit too, fuckin egotistical dick

>>994561
I realized Shimano can upshift 3 at a time, so I'm just going to get 11 - 28 105 for now. The main mechanic at the local bike co-op said he wouldn't be surprised if my current 9 speed 105 could do that which blew my mind when I tested it. It also kind of made sense because I think I had experienced multiple upshifts before without realizing that they had taken place. Eventually I want to get campy tho. 105 cheap af

>>995096
What? Cyclists have been pounding coffee on race day for probably 100 years, they even have special high caffeine versions marketed specifically to cyclists, and you've got a problem with an energy drink being used as my caffeine source? It's actually easier on my stomach and digestion than coffee. Or is it my choice of complex carbs and protein? Don't knock it till you try it.

>>995105
>Steak.
That's for post-race. ONLY IF YOU WIN, THOUGH. Steak is only for WINNERS, not LOSERS. LOSERS get a fucking lunchmeat sandwich at home.

>>995394
Noting too terribly wrong with 105. Ultegra is best bang for the buck, though, and Dura Ace is if you have money to burn. So is Campy.
Seriously though experience has shown me that any component group is only as good as your maintenance of it. A dirty, worn-out, or misadjusted drivetrain is going to make you rage for one reason or another.

>>995392
>fuckin egotistical dick
Yeah, well, when you have as much natural talent as he has, and is a Pretty Boy like he is, it's not much of a stretch to get arrogant and annoying. I'm sure he's got a whole cult-of-personality built around him, 'Manx Missle' indeed. Got to admit, most of us would like to have his Type-II muscle fiber ratio and anaerobic endurance to back it up.

>>995414
What do you have to say to this anon?
>>995297

Also since the bike is internally routed I'm wondering if there is going to make a difference. Are higher end groupsets optimized for internal routing?
BTW campy is pretty economical considering that each tier chorus and above are supposed to perform the same, the only difference being they're made with different materials. Campy touts chorus as being on par with Dura Ace.

>>995411
Energy drinks are disgusting, and that is an utterly ridiculous amount of brotein

That aside is there even any point of having the first can

do any of you guys ride a bike one size down? like pros? what stem size are you using? slam stem?

How many of you bought your first road bike with the intent to race?

Those of you that didn't: What were the mental stepping stones to realize you wanted to race?

Those of you who did: How expensive was that purchase / was it worth it?

>>995452
That's all your opinion. I've tried a bunch of different race-day morning strategies, and this one works for me. Maybe someday I come up with something else that works even better; right now this is what I do. Nobody is forcing you to drink Rockstar or do anything else I do, so why do you even care? Why are you so mad about this?

>>995475
>>995411
Calm down, buddy. Maybe lay off the rockstar before you post. He is much less mad about this than you, and you are being defensive as fuck.

>watching olympic trifags, bike stage
>everyone rocking their hips
>very scarce and ineffective drafting
>awful cornering/apexing
>sprinting out of the saddle on every lap for no reason
This is embarrassing

>>995464

Nut up and go race in babby's-first-race-category faggot, use whatever road bike you already have. There will be guys racing using shitty $400 Claris direct-to-consumer as well as guys riding $10,000 Di2 Pinarellos and they'll be racing each other because as long as your bike is in good working condition it makes no fucking difference even if shills on the internet and marketing tell you otherwise

>>995411
just snort fat rails of anhydrous caffeine to be a true pro

bonus point for doing them off your handlebars just before the race starts

>>995617
don't get me started on triathlete """"climbing""""

>>995765
whats wrong with their climbing? :^)

>>995609
You and too many others have an overactive imagination.

>>995609
You also apparently have an overactive imagination.

All I wanted to know is why anyone is (apparently) so offended that someone else would use an energy drink as their caffeine source, but If it's going to get everyone so riled up then maybe we'd better just drop the whole subject and forget it.

>>995617
Isn't the bike stage of a triathlon basically a time trial, and like in a time trial drafting isn't allowed?

>>995804
Some do, some don't. I read that the olympic one does allow, which means only one leg (the swim?) is actually really important and the cycling is pointless.

Most training schedules seem to be built to peak towards a certain period of racing
I personally have no interest in racing, I just want to consistently ride at a steady level all year long, as I cycle about the same distance throughout the seasons

How should I train?

>>995804
Not the olympic one

>>995802
Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself

>>995976
By literally just doing that.

>>995976
>How should I train?
'Just ride'.
>but I want to go faster!
'Just ride' more.
>but I want to be able to ride longer!
'Just ride' even more.
>how do I climb hills better?
'Just ride' up hills more.
>how do I not fall off the back when I ride with a group?
'Just ride' with groups more.
>how do I win the town-line sprint?
Whoa, wait a minute there buddy, you said you didn't want to race!

Periodized training is meant for people who want to race. If all you want to do is 'just ride', then all you do to 'train' is 'just ride'.

>>995452
>poor widdle babby is too weak and delicate to handle a widdle energy dwink, awww!
bikefags are all weak and useless

>>996019
Sorry but I'd rather drink something that doesn't taste like cough syrup.

Are you 12?

too much energydrinkposting

>>996025
>>996025
>>996025

>>996020
>I only drink MANLY MAN drinks because I'm a MANLY MAN
Manlet skellington bikefags.
Why don't you lift instead? You'll still be manlets but at least you'll be buff manlets instead of skinny weak bikefags.

>>989583
you fucked up mate