IGH Internal gear hubs

>>975847
Personally I think they're great for bicycles used for transportation or recreational purposes only, since they need less maintenance less often than a standard double chainring/rear cassette drivetrain does. But the 'servicing' of them, if they need anything other than their internal lubricant flushed and replaced, is beyond the capabilities of the average home mechanic, and I'd imagine it requires some special tools in addition to special training to service it properly, and (I didn't look so I'm not sure about this at all) you might not be able to get internal parts for them anyway.

That all being said, pair one of these up with disc brakes and a drive belt instead of a chain, and you've got a drivetrain that relative to a standard drivetrain, would be more or less maintenance-free, except maybe once a year.

Performance-wise, they're lacking however. They're heavy, and they shift slowly compared to a standard derailleur type drivetrain, and I'd suspect it might suck up a few more watts of leg power compared to a standard drivetrain, too, due to internal friction, but as previously stated this is something you'll find on a city bike or a recreational bike or maybe even a cargo bike, not a high-performance carbon-fiber super-lightweight road racing bike anyway.

Lastly, they're not particularly cheap, but if you pair it up with a drive belt-style system instead of a chain, the inital cost might well be offset over time due to lack of having to replace worn parts.

On a personal note, if I actually could afford a bike for every different use, and I wanted one just for around town to run errands and such, I'd consider something like this. I do pretty much all my own wrenching and would welcome something that potentially doesn't need babying all the time.

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Hmmmm I wonder why the american marketeted nexus 3 hub has 2 underdrive gears+1 direct drive while most 3-speed hubs and the older nexus sg-3r40 have one underdrive,one direct drive and one overdrive gear.
The SG-3D55 has a roller clutch for some reason too,interesting.
Nexus 4 is weird too as it has only direct drive and 3 overdrive gears

>>975847
Servicing basically consists of an oil change every so many miles (for oil filled hubs) and then similar stuff to a derailer drivetrain like replacing cogs, chains, and cables when they wear out. An oil change on an Alfine is fairly easy.

Reliability depends on the particular hub, they have the potential to be very reliable though.

>>975931
>They're heavy, and they shift slowly compared to a standard derailleur type drivetrain
I switched from a 2x9 to an Alfine 11 and only gained about 700g, not a huge deal. Some are heavier, but then some are also lighter if you're fine with having less gear range. As for shifting it's much faster than a derailer, as soon as the shifter clicks you're in a different gear. You can go from one end of the range to the other as quickly as you can mash the trigger.

>>975939
I don't know if you missed my reply in the other thread so I'll repeat it, the American one would have lower gearing with the same chainring and cog combo and for some reason that appeals more to the target market in America (I'm taking your word for that).

That said I can't imagine it would be very hard to get whatever hub you desired. The amount of under and overdrive gears doesn't really matter that much as you have a lot of choice when it comes to choosing the overall gear ratio (chainring and cog).

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>>975951
>As for shifting it's much faster than a derailer, as soon as the shifter clicks you're in a different gear.
Nice,Ive heard about the alfine11's ability to shift rapidly(probably have to ease up on the torque though)

>>975951
>I don't know if you missed my reply in the other thread so I'll repeat it
Dunno which thread,mustve missed it.
Sucks that the only /n/ archive is gone,probably again to fucking underage pr0n.

Pic is the "heavy duty"5 speed SA hub,Ive seen it in person,its a HUGE bitch!

>>975966
>Ive heard about the alfine11's ability to shift rapidly
It's not just the Alfine 11, it's any IGH. Once the shifter has pulled the cable the gears inside the hub have moved and it's in another ratio, there's no additional waiting for something to move afterwards like with a derailer.

>probably have to ease up on the torque though
If you pedal too hard it simply won't shift until you ease up, but you only need to do that for a fraction of a second. It's good enough that I can shift gears whilst wheelying and climbing is no problem.

>Dunno which thread,mustve missed it.
BQG >>974969

>>975968
Well in my experiece the spectros5 and s7 shift only when narly ALL pedaling force is gone,making it feel a bit slow.
They are fine IGH's though,shifters and clickbox design is bretty damage prone though.
But yeah,good IGH's shift fast,I want to ride a alfine 11 soon :(

>>Dunno which thread,mustve missed it.
>BQG >>974969 →
thanx,ill have a bit of a rest now

They're heavy and they slip and are less efficient and less smooth than a derailleur system.
Unless you absolutely need the ability to shift while stopped, or have vertical dropouts with no way of attaching a derailleur hanger, go with 1x.

>>976131
>vertical

aka horizontal

>>976131
>they slip
Hub indexed ones can't slip, shifter indexed ones like the Alfines can slip if you're an idiot and don't set them up correctly.

>less smooth than a derailleur system.
How so? Shifting is much smoother and pedalling is very similar.

>They're heavy
If you're not racing then it's unlikely to be significant.

>>976135
>Shifting is much smoother and pedalling is very similar.

Maybe on a Rohloff that costs more than a top shelf 11 speed groupset. 8 speed Alfine has very detectable crunching in some of the gears and occasionally slips even though the dots on the shell are aligned perfectly.

>>976136
>Maybe on a Rohloff
No, on an Alfine 11 (two actually).

>8 speed Alfine has very detectable crunching in some of the gears
Okay, so because one model of hub is like that (assuming that all 8s are that way) then all IGHs are the same?

>occasionally slips even though the dots on the shell are aligned perfectly.
That's the issue, the dots are just to get it roughly aligned, you need to fiddle with it to get it perfect. My current one is like 2-3mm off from lining up perfectly.

>>976141
>Okay, so because one model of hub is like that (assuming that all 8s are that way) then all IGHs are the same?

7 and 3 speed nexus are the same. 3 speed Sturmey Archer also. You simply cannot have a gearbox work as smoothly as, well, no gearbox.

If you're willing to pay 2-3 times more than a derailleur setup it's possible to get only slightly worse operation out of an IGH.

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>>976131
> less efficient than derailleur

That depends on many things: State of derailleur and chain, dirt and gear.

The first charts show that a derailleur is more efficient @200 watts than all hubs. @50 watts it is less efficient than most.

The second chart shows that derailleur efficiency also varies with gears chosen (crosschaining).

Both tests were done with new components. With worn and dirty components, the derailleur will be less efficient.

Sources:
http://fahrradzukunft.de/16/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabenschaltungen/

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.de/2012/01/factors-affecting-bicycle-transmission.html

>>976149
meant to say less efficent than most hub gears (only Alfine 11 and Rohloff in this case)

>>976149
>than most

This only shows Rohloff and Alfine 11, top of the line products that cost multiples of a derailleur setup, and at 50 watts they're still both less efficient except for a few high gears on the Rohloff. Also I'm questioning the legitimacy of the graph since they used a 7 speed derailleur (what year is this test from?) and apparently chain angle makes no difference for efficiency.

>>976152
see
>>976150

> 7 speed derailleur
> Shimano 27 speed
> chain angle makes no difference

You are not very good at reading, are you?

For the second chart a Shimano Ultegra was used, showing worst efficiency at extreme crosschaining (gear 24 is 32 teeth chainring with 12 teeth sprocket).

>>976144
There's a big difference between crunching and simply not being as smooth as a derailer drivetrain. Crunching is also different from just making a noise. Crunching implies that the gears aren't properly aligned or there's debris between them.

With a decent IGH with helical gears it can certainly be imperceptibly less smooth than a derailer. My Alfine feel no worse than the 2x9 that was on the bike before, but it does shift quicker and smoother and is quieter in most gears (and completely silent when coasting).

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>>976253
To add to anons statement,Even the bottom of the barrel nexus 3 hubs shit and operate VERY smooth,even more so with the japanese version

>>976265
>shit
Well...that obviously was meant to read SHIFT

>>976250
And that affects the 7-step long flat horizontal lines in the first graph how?

>>976253
Crunching might be a strong word but there is moving machinery between your pedal strokes and the back wheel rotation, and there is physical feedback to remind you of it. You might learn to ignore it, but if you ride derailleurs/single speed exclusively and switch to a hub, it is very noticeable and distracting.

>>976270
>And that affects the 7-step long flat horizontal lines in the first graph how?
Those lines are clearly labelled as being single speed, that's why they're flat.

>there is moving machinery between your pedal strokes and the back wheel rotation, and there is physical feedback to remind you of it. You might learn to ignore it, but if you ride derailleurs/single speed exclusively and switch to a hub, it is very noticeable and distracting.
That's exactly what I did, I can't notice any difference. there's just too much slack/play/flex or whatever in the whole system to feel the gears meshing together, it's like trying to feel a pea under 20 mattresses.

>>976270
>>976275
Actually, are you talking about the green lines? I can't read Kraut so I assumed that Kettensc was some sort of IGH, possibly a CVT.

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>>976277

>>976152
>Alfine 11, top of the line products that cost multiples of a derailleur setup

lol no. Alfine 11 + cog + shifter + crank is about the price of a tiagra groupset.

>>976290
Hardly comparable, a groupset includes far more parts although no hub.

It's hard to do a fair price comparison as there are so many options for the derailer drivetrain, it could work out far cheaper or a fair bit more expensive depending on what you go for.

At the time of buying my first Alfine 11 the other option was a 1x11 MTB drivetrain and the Alfine was a little bit cheaper than the cheapest derailer option, these days it's probably more expensive than the cheapest option. Compared to a 2x9 however it's going to be far more expensive.

>>976270
>Crunching might be a strong word but there is moving machinery between your pedal strokes and the back wheel rotation, and there is physical feedback to remind you of it. You might learn to ignore it, but if you ride derailleurs/single speed exclusively and switch to a hub, it is very noticeable and distracting.

I only have experienced this with nexus 8 and 4 hubs,which often have issues anyway.
Nexus 3,7,F&S/SRAM spectro s5 and 7 and SA 3/5 are all buttery smooth IME
Normies love them!

I still have a slight preference to a good deriie system

I've got a three-speed hub on my Brompton, it's good man. Saying that I never have any problem with my 2x setups either as I maintain them.

>>976290
You don't need a full Tiagra groupset to match Alfine 11 range, you can build a 1x11 setup with just a derailleur, shifter, cassette and chain for about half of that. If you don't need that much range you can go 1x9 for even less.

I think >>975931 this anon already gave a great review of it but I'll add my thing anyway

It boils down to what's more important in your shifting. Performance? Or simplicity and reliability?

>PROS
Less maintenance, more reliable
More weather-proof
No tuning

>CONS
When maintenance is needed it's much more difficult
significantly more expensive for comparable shifting quality
typically less range of gears
makes things like getting new wheels a lot more complicated
heavier
really there aren't many IGHs above what Tiagra is

>>976609
>what's more important in your shifting. Performance?
>for comparable shifting quality
Would you mind clarifying those?

>>976609
>more reliable

False.

>>976628
Substitute reliability for durability, because either drive train should be reliable under "normal" usage. IGHs however are much less susceptible to damage form hard use, misuse, or accidents.

>>976609
>Less maintenance
Of what? I've never maintained a derailleur in my life, and all the other parts of the shifting systems have the same maintenence requirements as a derailleur system does.
In fact, you _add_ a mainenence hassle of keeping the chain tensioned by moving the wheel around semi-regularly.

Wirepull is less on most IGH hubs than is it on derailleur systems, so they're actually _more_ susceptible to mishifts from over-due maintenence.

Please stop spreading this factoid.

>>976644
>In fact, you _add_ a mainenence hassle of keeping the chain tensioned by moving the wheel around semi-regularly.
What? An IGH doesn't care if the chain is a little slack, and if you want you can just run a sprung tensioner (which you'd need to with vertical dropouts unless you run a perfect gear ratio).

>>976647
Enjoy your dropped chains and skips. An IGH drivetrain needs chain tension just like a singlespeed. Hence the market for chain tensioners.

IGH just sucks dix. If you are not a 40 year old city woman who takes her bike to the shop when she gets "a flat wheel" then fuck these things to hell. Garbage complications that nobody needs

>>976654
Nice strawman.

>>976656
>t. Botched home mechanic fred

>>976644
> never maintained a derailleur

So you are a nice-weather casual? Or do you live where there is no rain?

For me, a derailleur doesn't make sense on my commuter, because rain, mud, salt etc., degrade shifting and make maintenance necessary.
An IGH can have a chainguard that keeps away most or all of this stuff. A derailleur system is always subjected to it.

The other points you mentioned are basically non-issues:
Keeping your chain tensioned is no hassle at all, even if you propagate it is.

Misshifting because of overdue maintenance happens but I don't think more often than with derailleurs. It literally is no issue that dooms IGH users to accept misshifting all the time.

You obviously don't own a IGH or want to give
them credit for what they are good at.

>>976656
You don't like them. OK. Others like them because they have benefits over derailleurs.

Derailleurs have proven to be solution for the shifting problem on bikes, as have IGH, so don't get butthurt.

>>976634
>are much less susceptible to damage form hard use

Try mashing a hub in a high gear because you didn't have time to downshift and tell me how that goes.

>>976987
Yeah, you're no where near strong enough to destroy a decent hub from mashing. I ran my Alfine well below Shimano's recommended gear ratio on a heavy mountain bike and it was fine, it's not some delicate little thing that can only handle a child pedalling it.

On the other hand it doesn't take much to kill a derailer and potentially fuck up some spokes with it (and have fun hunting down a new derailer hanger).

>>976983
>So you are a nice-weather casual? Or do you live where there is no rain?
No, I live in Sweden and bike year round. What exactly do you think need maintenence on the derailleur itself? It's a spring loaded arm. There's nothing to maintain.
Come to think of it I have replaced a pair of jockey wheels due to Shimano crappy design, but never ones with sealed bearings.

I propose that you have no fucking clue and is just making shit up. Rain causing maintenence of a derailleur - HA!

>>976993
The derailleur itself doesn't need much maintenance. Bu I may remind you that you are the one who stated that you didn't maintain your derailleur.
see
>>976644


But I think we can agree that we both mean the complete drivetrain. And when it comes to that: Rain on its own doesn't do much damage but salt, mud etc. does.
If you want to maintain that you don't have experienced any adverse effect of these factors, I can only assume you don't do much riding in bad weather.

One key element for good shifting is the chain. With derailleurs, the chain is subject to water, dirt and salt. With IGH you can avoid that (chainguard) and thus a lot of maintenance. Simple as that.

>>977003
>With derailleurs, the chain is subject to water, dirt and salt.
There's that new invention that's called fenders. And since chainguards (even the rare fullsize ones) are usually open at the bottom; no, they offer no protection against muck sprayed up by the front wheel. Belt drive or chain _cases_ are a valid point, but those are completely separate but somewhat advantageous items that necessitates the use of the inferior IGH. Not the other way around.

Get Longboards, pleeb.

>>977003
>gearhubs mean less maintenence
>*gets btfo*
>no wait i mean this unrelated accessory means less maintenence
i'll take moving the goalposts for over nine thousand, alex

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Is it likely that in our lifetime we'll see a hub with an actually usable clutch sort of thing, one which can be switched between fixed and free modes when riding, not just on standstill? Bonus points if it'll have some gears too.

>>980541
Can probably be done although I don't see what possible use it could have.

You could just use a coaster brake hub, that way you get the advantages of freewheeling (being able to lean in turns and go down steep hills without your feet flying off the pedals) whilst still being able to do skids like a child without needing to have proper brakes.

>>980546
A geared hub with moving parts inside will never be "fixed". At most it might not let you coast.

>>980998
That's what fixed means, it can't freewheel (or coast if you prefer) as the rotation of the cranks and the wheel are fixed together.

Having multiple gear ratios in the hub (even though that didn't seem to be his primary concern) doesn't change that. Technically you could have a fixed bike with a derailer. it would just be one of the most stupid ideas ever. Like wise you could use a geared crankset (Husselfelt or Pinion for example).

>>981067
That's not what fixed means.

>>981070
You're just arguing semantics. It would essentially functions as a fixed drivetrain.

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>>980546
>what possible use it could have
Urban cyclists, who enjoy riding fixed and enjoy occasionaly coasting too, having the option to switch the hub mode with a shifter or something.
A coaster brake hub sure let's me coast and let's me do skidzz, but it's missing out the above.

>>980998
Geared fixed hubs are a thing already http://www.sheldonbrown.com/asc.html
And this too https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-hammerschmidt-am-crankset

I don't see why it would be impossible to engineer a hub, be it multi- or single-speed, which would have the option to be instantly switched to coast/freewheel mode (and back) too.

>>981076
Hammerschmidt, that's what I meant. Always getting that shit mixed up.

>Urban cyclists, who enjoy riding fixed and enjoy occasionaly coasting too
I get what you're trying to achieve, but I still don't see the purpose. There's no benefit to riding fixed so you may as well just be able to coast all the time. If you need to be able to coast when leaning in turns or going fast down hills then that's exactly why fixed is stupid.

>>981077
>coast when leaning in turns or going fast down hills
Yeah, but on straight and flat stretches fixed is fun

>>981078
and going uphill

Are the alfine trigger shifters rapidshift-able?

>>981407
Dunno about the 8's, which is also reversed (upper lever goes to a lower gear). The 11's shifter can shift one or two gears with the upper lever (higher gear) in either direction (push it from either side) and I think the lower lever can do 1, 2, or 3 gear shifts in one push. If you're quick enough you can go from one end of the range to the other in probably less than a second.

My best bike has a Rohloff. It's probably the only bike drivetrain you can buy once and reasonably expect to last forever.

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>>981603
Very intrigued by the rohloff too.

Other than just being better engineered,the oil bath change maintenance procedure allows a lot of metal wear particles to washed out,and the oil moves freely around,basically removing wear particles from wear-intensive places.It also should allow better efficiency.
Just my theory anyway

With a nexus hub,Ive found that the grease lubricated parts are often inadequate from the factory,seeing rust-brown sludge and rusted bearing cages isnt uncommon here,even on bike purchased less than 2 years ago.

Shimano seems VERY backwards on their maintenance procedures sometimes,it's also true that some hub versions just suck shit in terms in efficiency and durability( a few nexus 7 and 8 hubs come to mind)

Pic partially related,Nexus 4

>>981635
Alfine 11 is also oil bath and changing the oil is fairly easy with a bleed hole on the shell.

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>>981644
Alfine 11 has an oil bleed hole on the hub?!

Never expected to see one on a modern hub.

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>>981727
It sure does, not sure why that's such a surprise to you. Serving kits comes with a syringe with a tube that threads into the hole so you can suck the old shit out and squirt the new stuff in.

Does the Rohloff not have one? If not, does that mean the hub has to be pulled apart to change the oil?

>>976987
> didn't have time to downshift
> on an IGH

I don't think you know how IGHs work...

>>976131
shite b8 m8 1/8

>>981745
Man with a Rohloff bike here.

To his credit, you can't shift a Rohloff under load. You have to let off the pedals for a split second, then click it to its next gear.

>>981738
>>>981727
>It sure does, not sure why that's such a surprise to you.

dunno,seems un-shimano-ish to put it on.

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Every IGH should be oil lubricated IMHO
With a dash of PTFE(teflon) or better yet MoS2

Is the Nexus 3 durable and reliable? I'm looking for low maintenance. Do I need to readjust cable tension every time I remount the rear wheel?

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>>982495
Absolutely,the only problems with nexus 3 and for that matter old AF sturmey archer hub is the lack of lubrication.
If you keep on top of that itll stay pristine for a long time.
The cable(assuming installed correctly and of the proper type) will bastically never have to be adjusted for its lifespan.
Japanese N3 hubs will also be better than singaporrian?or chinese made versions


The only nexus 3 hub ill not reccomend is the sg-3c41 becuuse coaster brakes make oil lubrication impractical.
SG-3R40
SG-3R75
SG-3D55
SG-3R42
Should all function perfectly
Shimano is world champion at under-lubricating and over tightening cone nuts so to take care of that before serious riding

How much more of a pain is it to replace a tire or tube with an IGH system? Is QR compatible with an IGH? How hard is it to retension and recalibrate out in the field?

Do I need to remove the wheel to replace a chain on an IGH bike?

>>983791
>Is QR compatible with an IGH?

No, you're stuck carrying a 15mm wrench.

>>983895
no, just break the chain with a chain tool

to reinstall I recommend holding together the end of the links with a zip tie and then install the magic link since the tension will be higher than on a normal bike with a tensioner

>>983893
It depends on the particular hub, Alfine 8 and 11 are fairly easy to remove and reinstall. You'll need a spanner to undo the axle nuts but that's the only tool needed, the cable detaches from the hub by hand and then you just drop the wheel out like normal. In my experience it's a little easier taking the wheel out and putting it back than with a derailer drive train.

>>983897
Or just reassemble the chain off the chainring so there's no tension on it. The tension shouldn't be any greater than with a derailer though.

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In which years were the best Sturmey archer hubs build?(Quality wise)

>>975966
I used to rebuild SA 3 speeds when I was in my early teens. The only problem they had was the cable through the hollow axle, drop the bike on it's side and the cable would pull dirt into the hub.

>>984725
nvm,I think sheldie knows:)

>>984729
Noice,I didt hub overhauls at 14 too!Not gear hubs though xd

Do you mean the indicator spindle that can pull dirt(or water for that matter) into the hub?

Im currently figuring out(not spending any effort rlly)Why a SA 3 speed hub I got at work wont do anything when I shift it in overdrive gear

The Rohloff is basically a car's transmission scaled down.

Cars go 100,000 miles+ without so much as an oil change because unlike freehubs and derailleurs and chainrings which are always exposed to dust they are sealed.

If I can find a good method of sealing off the chain and having it operate in an oil bath then we'd probably have the first bike transmission with a similar maintenance interval as a car. Just a thought.

>>975847
I just recently started looking into them. The first thing I noticed a bit of a gap in quality between Shimano's offerings and Rolloff. Would like to see more options in between.

Living in Seattle they're pretty damn appealing though.

>>983896
Rohloff has a QR version
>>982071
It all depends on the sealings. If you want to build a IGH with oil bath you have to design the hub so that no oil escapes.
That would mean to engineer the hub accordingly, with more precision parts.

>>982071
Addition: Adding a sealing to rotating parts to prevent oil from escaping will increase friction. It won't be massive but noticable (Rohloff wheels don't spin as long as e.g. cassette wheels or well adjusted other IGHs)

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>>984880
>Rohloff is basically a car's transmission scaled down
Nah, that would be a Pinion gearbox. Even has the same 10000km oil change interval instead of the Rohloff's 5000km.
>good method of sealing off the chain and having it operate in an oil bath
Old IGH roadsters and the like used to do that with metal chaincases. The problem was that changing the rear tire was a bitch.

>>984942
i wanna try a pinion

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>>984942
>10000km oil change interval

I ride a Nexus 7 hub on my commuter and its great.

So good being able to change gear while stopped at the lights without any fuss.

>>985195
10000 km or once a year is recommended

>>984880
uh, what? cars have oil change intervals of a few thousand miles

>>985381
>6% Energy loss
kek

>>985057
i wanna try a rohloff

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>>985381
Nexus 7 hub on my tank as well, its glorious. As this guy described, changing gear while standing still is amazing. Changing gear in general is extremely smooth, and has been for many years without any maintenance. On my roadbike I have to clean and lube it all the time. Derailleurs are absolute shit for a commuter, its the cheap option. Ever for the hills, the 7 speed hub has a decent granny gear too.

>>986070
Who fucking cares about a 6% energy loss on a commuter. To me the commuter is about reliability and comfort, I dont give a fuck about a 6% loss of power. As long as I can ride it comfortably where ever I want to go I am perfectly happy, im not racing it.

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>>987387
Piece of your chain case is missing

Its also made by woerden which use ABS plastic which is prone to UV(sunrays my nigga)degradation and become brittle and break easily.

Batavus bikes have horrid paint quality

The headtube angle,long rake distance,and sweepback make your bike steer like a tractor with a dead turtle as its driver,who died of turtle cancer

That model kickstand has a pin covered by a spring which is prone to fall out,its shit

Your headlight(looks like halogen which burns out fast af due to basta's incompetent current limiting circuits)is in the wrong direction and probrably loose due to the fietsenmaker monkey who didnt torque it tight enough

AXA SL7 and SL9 locks have a major flaw which caused them to be unlocked by master key,loads of ethnic kids have asked LBS for a axa master key to steal these pos bikes equipped with these cancer locks,more then tens of thousand of locks have been affected by this,you cannot insure your bike when having this lock for this reason

Looking at the saddle height and setback your frame is problably too small,problably because this bike is made for tall ethnic Dutch men you stole it from,not your small marrocan manlet body.

Adjustable quill stems are shit I wont even go into detail

Your rear carrier bungee cords(with simson branding even though the literal autistic fuck dont manufacture dont make anything themselves except their lousey puncture repair kit) lost elastic and are useless


Your rear fender seems to be mended by achmed

westwood/westrick rims are antiquated shit and presumably made by schothorst(Rigida/ryde) have shit tolerances

Your bike definitely is Dutch and thus by definition shit

Pic related typing "master key" in Dutch.
Its because Ali want to steal that heap of steaming shit.

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>>987397
Ok then friend, I have had this bike for 8 years now and it has never disappointed me, and has never been stolen by achmed.

>Piece of your chain case is missing
that piece is missing on nearly every bike you see in the Netherlands because of shitty chain case design along, my experience is that the chain stays clean even with that defect.

>The headtube angle,long rake distance,and sweepback make your bike steer like a tractor with a dead turtle as its driver,who died of turtle cancer

The handling is actually very good, high speed handling gets a bit tricky but tight corners are very easily dealt with on this bike. Much better than on my road bike I must say. I have done crazy turns and stunts with in the past with some infusion of a good brew.

>Looking at the saddle height and setback your frame is problably too small,problably because this bike is made for tall ethnic Dutch men you stole it from,not your small marrocan manlet body.

I have the saddle low for comfort, frame size might be a bit large for me but definitely not too large.


>Your rear fender seems to be mended by achmed.

bought a new one not too long ago and abused it, fenders are fragile things.

>westwood/westrick rims are antiquated shit and presumably made by schothorst(Rigida/ryde) have shit tolerances

I once rode into a dutch kerb at full speed at night because I couldnt see it clearly, smashed into it and fell of my bike violently from the impact, not a single dent in the steel rim.

Is my tank and I love it, I own a mountainbike and roadbike, but this tank is not exchangable for any of them when it comes to town riding. Fuck you.

>>987405
Your bike is shit,kid

Deal with it and kill yourself preferably

>>987387
Power loss makes comfort harder.

>>987405
>Too big frame, impossible to properly fit with your manlet body
kanker

>>987520
>Power loss makes comfort harder.
No it doesn't, it just means going slower for the same amount of energy. Let's say he could hit a reasonably brisk 14mph on flat ground (probably not on that thing), if he had a derailer drive train he wouldn't even be going 1mph faster. The slower he rides the even smaller difference that 6% makes.

>>987615
Humans have an ideal/preferred cadence where they're most comfortable at.
Using a less efficient gearhub means that reaching your ideal cadence is harder.

>>987617
If the gearing allows then you can hit your ideal cadence at any speed. Your argument is not that efficiency losses make a bike uncomfortable but rather that certain gearing may do that, however it may not apply to that guy's bike.

>>987619
And less efficiency is still less comfortable, always. (all things else equal)

Cadence is one reason.

Have fun pedalling harder than needed.

>>987622
>622

>>987622
>And less efficiency is still less comfortable, always. (all things else equal)
Speed being equal too, then yeah I'll agree. Even then 6% is a minute amount and for me would be worth it for the advantages of an IGH.

>>987625
>advantages of an IGH.
Increased weight?
increased difficulty replacing a tube?
Extreme sensetivity to cable adjustment?
Decreased gear range?
Larger steps between gears?
Refusing to shift under (moderate) load
And that all just to make you slower

>>987625

6% of nothing is nothing, so I kinda see your point.

>>987627
>Increased weight?
Came out to around +700 grams for me, not a big deal.
>increased difficulty replacing a tube?
I use self adhesive patches. That said I find removing and reinserting the wheel easier than with derailers, I've always found it a pain in the arse getting it out of the way especially when I've got a disc to line up with a brake caliper as well.
>Extreme sensetivity to cable adjustment?
Sure, that can make setup a bit harder. I'll give you that one. However once it's done you shouldn't need to adjust it again until it comes time to replace the cable.
>Decreased gear range?
That depends. In my case it actually ended up being a tiny bit greater than the derailer setup a switched from. Also not everyone needs a massive range, hence some people getting by with single speed. If you're someone that needs something like 2x11 with a mountain bike cassette then sure, stick with derailers.
>Larger steps between gears?
I'll give you that one too.
>Refusing to shift under (moderate) load
I'll give you that, but in reality it's not an issue. All you need to do is ease up for a fraction of a second.

I don't know if you actually care to hear the advantages of an IGH, you seem to only be concerned with shitting on them, but if you do I'll gladly list them.

>>987630

>almost two pounds of extra rotating mass, all on the rear wheel
>not a big deal

kek

Not that guy, but the reason IGHs get shit on is that they are shit.

They are suitable for one purpose and one purpose only: showing other cyclists what a special snowflake you are. There are no non-trivial real-world benefits.

>>987632
Two pounds ain't shit. If you really wanted to make it sound like a lot then you could've just gone with 700,000 mg. It's also not like it's right at the rim, it's located very close to the axle.

>the reason IGHs get shit on is that they are shit.
Okay, I get it. I guess we're done here.

>>987632
>I'm poor

>>987633
>700,000 mg
wtf i hate gear hubs now

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>>987632
>no non-trivial real-world benefits
They are tough. Winter, mud, banging around in public bike racks, years of abject neglect; hubs are able to tolerate this and derailleurs are not. Compatible with belts or cases that further enhance the toughness. If they have a twist-grip or lever they can also shift from high to low in a single motion while stopped, a non-trivial benefit in traffic.
Like fat, cargo, uni, tri, tandem, and other -cycles they fill a specific niche better than anything else. If your shitting on them for not being sporting, then you can put your carbon racer on your car carrier and drive your spandex ass over to /sp/.
This is /n/.

>>987687
>They are tough. Winter, mud, banging around in public bike racks, years of abject neglect; hubs are able to tolerate this and derailleurs are not.
But that is WRONG.
Ive seen many corroded gear hubs.
Especially nexus 4 and 8 hubs.

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>>987905
You think shit like this would be feasible if the bikes had derailleurs rather than gearhubs?

They are much lower maintenance items than derailleurs.

>>987905
>sees corroded gear hub
>ignores how a derailleur would have likely long since fallen to pieces or turned into one solid lump in the same circumstances
>HERP DERP INTERNAL GEAR HUBS A SHIT
Nexus 4/8 hubs are pretty bad though.

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>>987627
>>987632
>>987905

> Return of the IGH hateboys

Protip: If you don't like IGHs don't post in this thread.

>>988336
>topic of thread is literaly our opinions on igh
>hur-durr dont post negative opinions
It's not supposed to be an IGH wankfest, you turboautist.

>>988343
Have you read those anon's posts? It is not me who is the autist and it is also not supposed to be a derailleur wankfest you turboignorant.

Having an opinion is fine. But what's the point in talking about opinions when you are not interested in other's opinions?. Those anon's could just take a huge shit on IGH with all the arguments they can think of and dump it in the thread. But for that they would have to have enough attention span and focus to actually type a coherent text.
Instead its ignorant shitposting by haters.

>>988351
>But what's the point in talking about opinions when you are not interested in other's opinions?
I couldn't hear a word over the roar of your double standards and self-righeous asshattery. Let me quote (You):
>If you don't like IGHs don't post in this thread.

>>988352
I can see both of you guy's points. Yes disliking something is an opinion but that on its own isn't useful to anyone. By all means share your negative opinions of them but justify them, tell us what it is exactly that you dislike about them.

I'll quote one of the shitposters
>the reason IGHs get shit on is that they are shit.

>>988355
>By all means share your negative opinions of them but justify them
>I'll quote one of the shitposters
Conveniently leaving out the justifications for this statement, provided in part in greentext in the very post you quote. I'm not impressed, anon. Not impressed at all.

>>988357
But most of the points he raised were either false or not as huge as he made them out to be, and then he refuses to acknowledge the advantages of IGHs.

The points he provided don't make IGHs shit, they are simply reasons that he in particular doesn't like them (the ones that are actually true) and that's fine. However he has to be all antagonistic by calling them shit instead of having a civilised discussion.

The funny thing is you don't see many of us IGH owners calling derailer drive trains shit. We acknowledge their advantages and maybe even use them in some cases. I like both for what they are and base my preference in the intended usage.

>>988358
>The points he provided don't make IGHs shit
In your opinion. His differ.
>But most of the points he raised were either false or not as huge as he made them out to be
The same can be said for all the advantages of IGHs some proponents claim, and all the supposed problems with derailleurs that IGHs supposedly solve.

Pot, meet kettle.

>>988371
Neither system is shit, they each have their own disadvantages. Something is shit if it has no justification for being used because there exists an alternative that is better in almost every way.

>>988377
And some people thinks there is an alternative that is better in almost every way. Some people think derailleurs are. Please wrap your head around this fact and get into your thick skull that your _opinion_ does not merit special attention. Least of all to such a degree that other opinions should be silienced because they're "invalid" or should be considered shitposting.

Head. Get it out of your loose anoose.

>>988352
Since you don't address my point, I would also like to file that under shitposting.
>>988379
Please wrap your head around the fact that one's opinion does not equal facts, as some anon's in this thread seem to believe.

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>>988804
>Please wrap your head around the fact that one's opinion does not equal facts
Anon, you just had a major breakdown of reading. The fact is that there are different opinions, and that yours carry no special weight. That is the fact. The opinions were never stated to be facts. Now go eat your tendies.

>>988810
my mum bought me in a plate of tendies before and i yelled at her and slammed the door in her face. I don't mean to yell at my mum but i get so mad sometimes at the shit i read on here. I'm fucking hungry and you're still making stupid posts.