/BRT/ - Bike Training and Racing thread

going to ride my bike in a racer fashion tomorrow. Racing 3x this weekend. Imbue me with luck guys

>>966106
I think you need to take more PEDs my man.

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>>966261
Nah, brah, caffeine is all I ever need.

>>966157
Stage race?

>>966157
Where do you live that racing would start on a thursday? Or is a friday-saturday-sunday stage race?

>>966287
>>966294
O I mean, I'm doing a 3/4 and a 1/2/3 crit on Sunday and one race on Sat. so basically racing 3x

I have a 25 mile timed race a week on Sunday. Going to use it to test myself as a starting point. Training on a heavy steel bike until next thursday. Climbing is nothing but uphill and back for 15 miles a day on top of my 5 miles each way commute.
Would I be better pushing my sprint for cornering or aiming at continuing climbing for worst case scenario?

>>966303
>Would I be better pushing my sprint for cornering or aiming at continuing climbing for worst case scenario?
There's really no way to answer that question without knowing in great detail what training you've already been doing, like posting your training log for at least the last 3 months or so. What kind of racing are you going to be doing, mainly? You do things slightly differently depending on whether it's regular road races, crits, or time trials. Otherwise, pretty much everyone needs to always be working on muscular endurance and anaerobic endurance, and if you get far enough along, lactate tolerance intervals.

How do you even get into racing? Are you supposed to start out young? I'm 19, so is it too late for me?

I live in the middle of bum fuck nowhere, so I'm lucky enough to see a community 5k walkathon pass through once or twice a year, you can forget about road racing. Maybe when I get to uni I can get into it? I don't even have anyone to ride with.

>>966500
>I'm 19, so is it too late for me?
no. Maybe if you wanted to be a world class pro winning the entire TDF. But you can quite easily be a great rider and get on a good team if you dedicate yourself and work hard.

Anyone racing at Tulsa Tough this weekend!?
Cry Baby Hill!!

>>966500
If your ambition is to be a pro rider on the world tour with a top-level team, then maybe you're getting started a little late (unless you're super-talented to start with), but if you want to get into it just because it looks like fun, or maybe if you're good enough, go pro on the U.S. level, then sure, go for it. If you want to be any good at it, it takes some dedication, though. You can't just ride on the weekends or just when you feel like it and expect to be fast.

>>966505
>>966520
That's encouraging to hear. Where do you even begin though? Just enter local races? Would i have to drive out to some if none happen near me?

Do you get scouted or some shit

>>966531

Most people start by doing organized group rides. Check local bike forums or social networking pages, ask around local bike shops, etc

Your basic initial goal is to learn to ride in a group without endangering yourself or others.

If you have a velodrome in the area, that could be worth checking out. Otherwise criteriums, alleycats, category 5 races and the like. Most organized races have categories appropriate to inexperienced riders. These are every bit as much of a clusterfuck as they sound like, but you've gotta work your way up and in any case you'll be able to decide if it's something you enjoy and want to commit to/work towards.

>>966531
There's two aspects to racing: Athleticism, and race skills. The athleticism is, really, the easy part, since it's just Make a plan -> Follow the plan -> Get faster (ideally, at least). Race skills, on the other hand, are harder to acquire. To get race skills, you need to start with things like participating in group rides, preferably with guys who also race, so you get experience riding in close quarters with other riders at more than just a casual pace, learn how to move up in a group safely, and in general how to not piss everyone else off and how to not cause crashes. There's a gotcha to this, though: you can't just do group rides all the time and expect to get faster; you have to do much of your riding alone, so you're training the areas of your athleticism that you need to be training. Group rides are always going to be either too hard or too easy for what you need to be working on.

Since it's already race season, and you may not be up to an actual road race athletically-speaking anyway, just find some group rides with guys that race in your area, go to some local crits just to watch and be around that environment, talk to guys who race, and see what you really think of the whole thing. You could even get a one-day license for a cat-5 road race (wouldn't recommend a crit to a newbie rider with no experience), just be damned careful and don't expect much from yourself, play it safe.

lads, mtb racing

A/n/yone do the 11 mile Silverstone 9up TTT this evening? Finished with 6 for a mid 22.

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>CAT 5 road race
>good position before the line
>purposely start sprinting EARLY as fuck
>but only at 60%
>group freaks out and starts chasing at max effort
>start increasing my effort to max right after I get passed
>1st place
>scrublord track tactics win the day

Lyrics at 3:03

https://youtu.be/-5FKNViujeM?t=3m2s


Pretty much going to be me at the crit I'm racing today...

>>966944
2nd place to9day. Went super hard with my buddy from the second lap. He got 4th. Basically we drilled it into the cross/head wind and cross/tail wind for every lap and shelled everyone

115 in my field today. Finished 85th. Got fucked behind not 1, but 3 fucking crashes. My fault for starting where I did.
Oh well. Day two tomorrow.

>>967175
Actually, looking at flybys and results - I should have had at least 66th. But, I don't think protesting would have mattered. If you're not on the podium or in the money, who cares?

>>967175
>>967191
1. If you're not moving up, you're moving back
2. Closer to the front means less chance of getting stuck in a wreck
3. Closer to the front means working less (no accordian effect)
4. Closer to the front means a better chance of a top-10 finish

You should be working on your placement in the pack every minute of every race you ever do.

is this a good training schedule:

mon: off
tues: LT 2x20s
wed: easy 20 mile spin
thurs: 2x20s or 5x4 Vo2max
fri: 20 mile easy spin
sat: 2.5 hour tempo ride, or just fun stuff, strava segments, noodling
sun: 3-4 hour base ride

raced 3x today lol, 20km TT: 27:20, 3/4 crit:5th, 1/2/3 crit:8th. Basically, I'm shelled.

>>967520
its good if you hit your intervals hard and dont slip into the "trap" of doing the same watts for your intervals all the time. say you did 365 for 5x4.. then 2 weeks later you did 365 for 5x4. dont do that. you should improve constantly for intervals

>>967624
I don't see how you can call intervals that are within the specified range as being a 'trap', you're doing the work in the prescribed manner, and during the three work-weeks of a training block, you should be trying to increase the total time-at-intensity of intervals from one week to the next, not the intensity. Remember that 'fitness happens when you rest'. When you do a power test at the end of your recovery week (4th week of a training block) then you have an opportunity to increase the intensity, as your max power goes up, and all training zones with it.

I'm probably about to get shit on, but any triathletes in here?

>>967520
>mon: off
OK
>tues: LT 2x20s
Why just 2 intervals? Why not 3 to 5?
>wed: easy 20 mile spin
Why say '20 mile spin' instead of '1.5 hours in Z2', or however long?
>thurs: 2x20s or 5x4 Vo2max
Why is there an option here for ME intervals, or anaerobic intervals?
You already did ME intervals on Tuesday, why are you doing them again?
Shouldn't you also be working on your anaerobic endurance, too?
>fri: 20 mile easy spin
Again: Why say '20 mile spin' instead of '1.5 hours in Z2', or however long?
Your rides should always be 'time at intensity', not 'X number of miles', unless you're going on some group ride of a set length.
>sat: 2.5 hour tempo ride, or just fun stuff, strava segments, noodling
I have a hard time believing you're averaging in Z3 for an entire 2.5 hours, and even if you are, why are you doing that, which is more appropriate for mid-Base training, when we're in the middle of race season and you should be in Build blocks? You're already doing Z4-5a intervals on Tuesday, and (potentially) Z5b intervals on Thursday, why are you grinding yourself into the ground (potentially) 2.5 hours in Z3 on Saturday?
You should consider a fast, race-like group ride on Saturday instead, to not only give you a little more anaerobic work (surges and sprints during the ride) but bike-handling riding in a fast group, working on maintaining and improving position in the pack, etc, instead of riding alone all the time.
>sun: 3-4 hour base ride
This is how you should be planning your Wed/Fri easy rides: time at intensity.

Don't forget to throw in some speed-skills work on your Wednesday or Friday basic endurance rides, at least Form Sprints. Never seen anyone who wasn't a pro who didn't need to work on their sprint form.

>>967635
lol I won't get into a physiology debate but essentially as you gain fitness especially in that vo2 range... you won't be in your vo2 range anymore. You'll be in a sligthtly above ftp range and that'll essentially just work your ftp. Obviously there is crossover from all zones. Even z1 to z5. but yea. As you gain fitness in vo2 you have to do more watts, not just raise the wattage once a month, what the fuck? Why not just do ftp intervals instead of5x4 if you aren't gonna do them actually AT VO2.?

>>967587
That's amazing

>>967670

THANKS HOMIE@! It was my first time doing a 1/2/3 crit too. Pretty gnarly how there is actual team tactics and people actually being semi-competent bike handlers instead of #chaos 3/4. Might have done better but Tailwind sprint+Jr. gear restriction = tough. At least I didn't crash this time

>>967654
'Fitness happens when you rest'.
During the course of the work-weeks in a training block, you actually lose fitness. It's during the recovery week that supercompensation happens and you gain fitness. Otherwise, what you're suggesting also means you have to make guesses about how much power you're supposedly 'gaining', without doing any actual testing. I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's the opposite of everything I've ever read and everything I've ever been told. You're welcome to push the average wattage per interval up closer to the top of the zone(s) for those intervals, but you don't just arbitrarily move your training zones in the middle of a training block, especially without any sort of actual testing.

>>967641
get lost fred
your noobness is showing

>>967640
I want to, but I can't really swim (freestyle that is).

>>967973
>embarassed
>butthurt
>lashing out in his indignation

>>966106
Eddy had some wide bars.

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Hi, /BRT/. I'd like to get into racing but don't have the money for a carbon bike. All I have now is a steel 12 speed. How can I start racing?

>>968136
Eddy rode a bike many considered too small

>>968138
Does it have drop bars, and brakes on both wheels? Then it's legal to use in a road race. Of course it has to be in decent working condition so it's not a hazard to you or other riders, and I'd recommend at least toe clips or preferably clipless pedals.

>>967654
>but essentially as you gain fitness especially in that vo2 range
Apparently, not, actually. According to this article I was reading today, your body just dulls the pain as the training weeks progress, so it just seems easier, like you're getting stronger.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/news/to-peak-or-not-to-peak-and-why-our-bodies-can-fool-us_290785

Of course if you can post links to credible sources for what you're talking about, I'd be interested in reading that, too.

>>968138
It takes a lot of cajones to show up with a shit bike. It's rude as fuck to show up on a shit bike and perform shitty. If you're slow, it looks like you aren't taking them or racing seriously. If you win, it looks like you're thumbing your nose at them trying to show off how good you are by beating them with a shit bike. Youtube video to help you visualize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzg3esJaaU

>>968624
>links uncited blog
>of course if you can post links to credible sources for what you're talking about, I'd be interested in reading that, too.

Obviously everything I said is just extrapolating from what I've experienced, especially when doing bulgarian-type weightlifting training, you learn your body can recover from a hard workout and make gains without taking time all the way off. Often, on a day to day basis. If you're legitimately experiencing good gains then there is no reason to read myriads of articles on training to gain more info. Also, I'm pretty sure the human body doesn't have thoughts about lions. It's just physiological reactions and producing a positive result in athletics apparently raises testosterone (i.e could potentially slightly help with recovery, strength, etc) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2606468

Hello,

I'm new to the cyclist world, and, anyway, I'm not here to be a «monster». I think it's the best thread to ask.

I'm a poor «as fuck» student who want to be «in shape» (can't continue running due to health issues but my doctor said a bike is just fine) and I got my father's bike (a Road Bike with a BH frame, will send picture 2 ou 3 hours later) with Shinamo clipless pedals. The problem is I don't have clipless shoes (his are 42 and I wear 45-6), can I just continue to use them with normal shoes or will they break from use ?

And the curved handle bar seem old, I can't use it without dirty my hand. Is there a way to solve this without the use of gloves ? I want to ride almost everywhere to save money, so I can't be dirty.

Thanks.

>>968677
Change pedals if you dont want to ride clipless. Sure you can ride clipless pedals wit normal shoe, but that wont be very comfortable or practical, your feet can slip easily.

Secondly, change the bartape.

>>968677
>I just continue to use them with normal shoes or will they break from use ?
your pedals won't break
>And the curved handle bar seem old, I can't use it without dirty my hand. Is there a way to solve this without the use of gloves ?
Wash it... with OIL AND A CLOTH

>>968679
I hope I can find bartape for cheap in my third world country. I don't have the money to buy new pedal and the ones from a rusty vtt here seem to don't fit in.

>>968681
Any type of oil will made it ?

>>968682
As far as I know every pedal has the same size threading and any pedal should fit your bike. Grease the pedal threads before you put them on

Try cleaning the bar tape with soap and water before trying solvents or oil.

>>968675
>Obviously everything I said is just extrapolating from what I've experienced
..and as such is literally as subjective as you can get, and therefore utterly useless. Meanwhile what Iinked to was written by a many decades experienced cycling coach, and chceks out perfectly with what other very experienced cycling coaches will tell you. Which do you think I'm going to believe?

Please, buddy, this isn't trolling or bullying. I want everyone that comes to this thread to be as successful in their training as possible, therefore I'll challenge things I know just aren't right.

the secret to training is to train really fucking hard

fuck training plans

does anyone train by TSS?

i did a 300tss ride yesterday
do i take today off?

>>968138
Learning basic roadie etiquette, and how to not crash in a group is a good start. Find fast group rides near you.

>>968683
Really, really old stuff, like weird french pedals and BMX pedals are an exception.

>>968654
I would not be concerned about this at cat 5. I'd be more concerned that the rider is going to blow his riding line and wreck the entire pack.

>>968719
>the secret to training is to train really fucking hard
>fuck training plans

THIS... except I like to go really, really hard for a bit, then really, really easy for a long time and have fun. My average speeds are so bad I've had multiple people see them on Strava and ask me about them in person. Tho I probably made more gains in the past 4 months of doing this than most people will in their whole cycling career.

>>968711
>Meanwhile what Iinked to was written by a many decades experienced cycling coach, and chceks out perfectly with what other very experienced cycling coaches will tell you.
But that is still just guesswork on their part. Assumptions etc, no legitimate research. Anyway, like I said - do whatever you believe is effective, and you will make it more effective by believing in it.

>>968862
Guess work, decades of experimentation, experience and a sample size greater than one.

>>968867
>your whole mindset

baka desu senpai

>>968862
>do whatever you believe is effective, and you will make it more effective by believing in it
You basically just said that anything and everything anyone does for their training only works because of 'placebo effect'.

>>968742
>do i take today off?
No. If you're really feeling that beat up, then do an hour or so recovery ride (and I do mean Recovery: keep it in Zone 1 and just spin). Recovery rides will help you recover faster than just sitting around.
If you're really feeling too beat up to even think about getting on the bike, then go for a hike in the woods or a park or something for an hour. Changing things up sometimes is a good idea.

What did you do, anyway?

>>968883
No, I said it would make anything more effective. And, in most part because if you believe something will work you are more likely to give it your all. Would you endure more pain when you thought something was ineffective or worthless, or when you thought what you were doing was going to take your where you wanna be in an effective manner?

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401W for 5 min lads. i weigh 150ish, prolly 152. That's dece I think.

>>968905
>152 kilos
>335 pounds
Jesus landwhale

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>>968906

>>968905
>No space between the number and the unit symbol
>Expressing weight in a dimensionless quantity
Please re-read the SI Brochure.

>>968742
Get golden cheetah and you can track it properly.

Got a powermeter a couple of days ago, breh's. Still working on power zone testing. Fatigued, my ftp was 331 watts yesterday (4.55 w/kg.) I reckon I could do better though. Time till tell. Still need to do a proper 1,3,5 min 5 and 30 second output tests though so I can gauge CP, w' and etc.

>want to support mah good ol' LBS
>get a quote for a stages crank
>expecting 900 buckaroos or something
>twelve hundred and ninety five AUD
>950 in fucking burgerbucks

Why do they make it so hard?

>>968905
tfw I literally did exactly that a few days ago but had at least 15 watts more that in me and didn't do them because I was spun out the whole tim THANKS JR. GEAR RESTRICTIONS. but yeah oviously my knees would be fucked if i had a 50x12 instead of 50x14

>>968885
pretty solid 4 hour ride with a ton of climbing

my endurance is shit and I don't do many rides in the 70 miles range, usually 30-45 miles (all rides are 1k of climbing per 10 miles).

Toward the end my legs were pretty narfed but there was this bizarre shit happening where it felt like I didn't have to breath hardly at all for doing power around my FTP. My HR monitor is dead so I didn't track what was going on there.

>>969125
>it felt like I didn't have to breath hardly at all
I refer to that as 'power supply problems'; your muscles may have been able to go on, but you were overall too fatigued to really produce any substantial power for a sustained period of time.

>>968891
Regardless, 'Fitness happens when you REST' is the reality. You don't get stronger and fitter during the work weeks of a training block, you actually lose fitness, breaking things down, and supercompensate during your Recovery week. That's reality.

>>969338
I've literally never done a recovery week and am making gains. Maybe I'm just an anomaly

>>969337
its called negative aerobic decoupling, its a very good sign.

>>969348
you're not training hard enough if you can afford to not take a very relaxed week once in a while

>>969360
lol

>>969348
If you don't ever need to take a recovery week every 4th week, then you're not training enough or not training hard enough in the preceeding 3 weeks.

Is it just me, or do anaerobic intervals actually get easier after the first few minutes for everybody?

>>969407
>he doesnt warm up

What's the best way to transition to competition for someone who rides 15mi/day at around 18mph? Used to do running races at a decent skill level and been biking for /fun/ nearly every day for a few years.

>>969502

15 miles/day at 18mph is sub-casual, unless you are doing it on a fatbike.

You're not even ready for group rides, forget competition.

>>969125
Research critical power, tau and w'
Ya dun depleted ya tank

>>969502

Hire a coach, make a 5 year plan, and start using PEDs.

>>969502
>15mi/day at around 18mph
That's not even an hour of riding per day.

If you can't handle at least 10 hours a week of riding (and up to 15 hours a week) then you don't even have the basic aerobic endurance to even hang with the group in a cat-5 race yet.
Spend the next year building up your weekly riding to those levels.

Then there's bike handling. Racing is more than just being fast, you have to be able to handle riding safely in a large group moving at high speed, and be able to maneuver your way through the pack safely so you can get near the front (and stay there; you're either moving up or you're moving back!); if you can't do that then you're wasting your entry fee. The athleticism required to race is the easy part; learning to race effectively and safely is the hard part, and learning how to win is the hardest part. In the meantime find local clubs and groups that ride together and ride with them a couple times a week and learn how to ride in a group.

Go to a bookstore and find a copy of The Cyclists Training Bible, sit down and thumb through it. You'll get the beginnings of an idea of what you have to do to get the athleticism necessary for racing. It's much more involved than 'just ride a lot'. Read through this thread at least and you'll get an idea of what we're all doing.

There's a lot to this. Good racers make it look easy, but it's really not.

>>966303
train on what you race on, brah

>>969507
My power didn't decline, the amount of breathing I needed to do to maintain that power declined

>>969811
So what you're saying is your heartrate increased relative to the duration of an anaerobic interval? Fancy that!

>>969852
do you have a reading disability?

>>969862
You have a writing disability?
Do you even have a power meter?

Are you idiot?

>>969989
I have a power meter

fug felt good about 2:50 into a 3:10 ride. why

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>>970034

>>970067
are u idiot?

BKOOL just reminded me that my FTP exps today and that I need to take a new test.
Would it be a stupid idea to do the test the day before a 45min Crit Race?

>>970949
If it's an important race or something then maybe you should skip it. Altho the day before honestly sounds like a good warmup for a crit race IMO. A lot of people will say you will get fatigued but a ftp test is like 20 mins? 30 mins? I dunno. I don't test my ftp. But I mean, even doing it on the day of a 45 min crit won't be THAT bad unless you have bad endurance.

>>970976
Yeah, the test itself is only 20 mins... there is a warm up/cool down as well. The entire test takes only about 45 mins or so.

>>970949
If you can't do a simple little short power test the day before a short little 45 minute crit without sabotaging yourself then your fitness is lacking.

Well boys I think I overworked myself and now I don't feel like cycling at all, kinda funny how that happens- you do it too much because it's all you think about and you end up despising it for that very reason.

Shit sucks desu

>>971179
have you thought about trying the "quit being a pussy" training plan?

literally no one on /n/ races bicycles

>>969705
Thanks for the help and sorry for the late response. I know I don't do enough riding yet, I just wanted to give some idea of where I am on the bike. I'm probably not cut out for real racing, but I'd like to give it a shot before my youth leaves me for good.

>>971260
Dude. Don't listen to them. Enter a race for fun, see where you stand. Maybe you can keep up, maybe you get dropped in 30 seconds, it doesn't matter. Look for local group rides (a local bike shop would know them) and go to them as much as possible and stick as long as you can. Also if you pump up your weekly mileage to around 220-250 you will see big gains. Trust me man, if you're 30 or under you have over a decade before your age REALLY limits you a lot. Some of the fastest guys I know are 35+.

>>971334
>Don't listen to them. Enter a race for fun,

and this is why totally unavoidable crashes happen

>>971260
Ride in groups plenty before you race, even if you aren't that strong, you need to be very confident riding in a tight bunch.

>>971179
Let me guess: You don't train with any sort of a structured plan, you use the 'just ride a lot' training philosophy, and believe that taking an Active Recovery week every 4th week is just for weak pussies?

>>971260
Please, don't listen to this guy: >>971334
Just do like I said and take your time building mileage and your group-riding skills, then if you're feeling confident late in this season, find a regular Cat-5 road race (not a crit or circuit race), pay your fee for the 1-day race license, and try it. No reason to rush things. Even if you don't get in a crash, getting dropped will leave a bad taste in your mouth and maybe you won't want to try it again.

>>971375
>and this is why totally unavoidable crashes happen
>>971464
He'll be in a 5s or 4/5s race.

>>971464
>getting dropped will leave a bad taste in your mouth and maybe you won't want to try it again.

Forgot to say, pretty much all races are crash infested until 1/2/3.Even then, 3s fuck things up. Also getting dropped should serve to motivate you and show you what you should strive to achieve. If you are a little bitch then yeah, maybe it'll "leave a bad taste in your mouth."

What goes through your mind when you're on a training ride?

>Am I in zone?
>Stupid fucking squirrel, GTFO of the way!
>Oh look, boobies! Hurray for summertime boobies! Yay! :-)
>Damn, that guys' bike needs the chain lubed like right away, squeaks like a motherfucker
>"ON YOUR LEFT!" fucking casuals, they need to get to the right and stay there!
>"MAKE A HOLE, PLEASE!" goddamn pedestrians think they're the only ones out here
>Ack, bugs! I FUCKING SWALLOWED A BUG *HACK HACK COUGH COUGH*
>6 minutes down, 50% done with this interval, then only 4 more to go..
>Hmm, what should I make for dinner later?

>>971484
on solo ride
>*completely blank mind*
>oh shit was that light red?
on bunch ride
>gonna rub this guys wheel to scare this guy for kicks
>gonna do an exaggerated aero tuck on this 10 seconds descent

>>971190
Well no and to be fair I don't think pushing myself to train when I don't want to is going to be of any help, I'm not a pro or anything.

>>971461
No, I have a plan, was pretty good at sticking to it when uni didn't get in the way although I never took any active recovery weeks, maybe I'll look into that.

>>971484
More or less it's usually
>fuck this is a long interval
>fuck THAT'S a long interval
>fuck I'm tired
>I wonder if anyone wants to do a sprint?
>I should probably take a turn
>fuck I'm tired

>>971499
>gonna rub this guys wheel to scare this guy for kicks

REEEEEEEEEE

>>971629
I'm too scared I'll eat shit to do this to anyone

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>mfw im about to race US amateur 17-18 road nats on 4 and a half months of training

>>971499
>gonna rub this guys wheel to scare this guy for kicks
You're a dick. xD

>>971626
>I never took any active recovery weeks, maybe I'll look into that.
"Fitness happens when you rest."
You can't get supercompensation otherwise.
What you end up with is plateauing, and if you keep pushing hard enough, overtraining and burnout.

>>971630
I'll tell you this much: If someone is doing it to you, it's a whole lot easier to deal with (assuming you don't freak out) than it is to do it to someone else. Physics.

>>971481
>getting dropped should serve to motivate you and show you what you should strive to achieve. If you are a little bitch then yeah, maybe it'll "leave a bad taste in your mouth."
When I was a brand-new Cat-5, my first race was a local crit. I didn't show up early enough, so I ended up with all of 10 minutes to get warmed up. Naturally I was immediately in the red and off the back by the second lap with no hope of catching back on; I'd fucked up big time, felt totally ashamed, and skulked off the course on the backside so nobody would see me drop out. But I knew why I'd failed so hard and resolved to show up 2 hours before start time to any race after that, so I'd always have enough time to get everything done. Not every new racer is going to bounce back like that, some will just think they were delusional to try in the first place and maybe never try it again. I see the role of guys like me, who now have a few years experience, is to help the new guys avoid the dumb mistakes that may turn them off to the whole sport. So I give advice accordingly.

>>971626
>I don't think pushing myself to train when I don't want to is going to be of any help
OK, that's a bad attitude, literally a loser's attitude. There is such a thing with athletes of any kind, called 'mental toughness', and part of that is doing the training you know you need to do, even when you don't really feel like doing it. I'm not talking about having a high fever and going out and training anyway, that's just dumb, I'm talking about when you just don't want to but you have no good reason not to other than 'I don't feel like it'.

>>971807
Not that guy, but unless you are going to subject the guy to a detailed psychological profile, a casual description of overtraining symptoms sounds pretty similar to "I don't feel like it"

My usual disposition is "it's physically impossible to ride enough" but there have been times when I genuinely overdid it and I experienced a strange revulsion towards getting on a bike

tl;dr shut up you faggot

>>971803
>overtraining and burnout
me irl
I hate rest days feels like shit

>>971481
But 4/5s are often the same people...

Also if I were racing crits, which I'm not, I'd buy a crit bike. Aluminum with new Sora, maybe 1x. Wouldn't feel too bad if I crashed, don't need those climbing gears, and 9sp means I can easily put together custom cassettes.

>>971804
Yeah I've never actually caused a crash doing it, that would be fucked up. It's usually at slow speeds before/after a light or stop sign, like 15-20mph. Just don't hit their rear derailleur, they'll be pissed after that

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>>971219
excuse the shitty handwriting

>>972001
>4 pins
>crumpled number (illegal)
>implying you were aero or anything other than a cat 5

shiggy diggy

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>>972007
>4 pins
was for the gila monster, don't really care about pins when i'm doing a lot of climbing lol
>crumpled number
fuck off, novice

>>972016
>cat 3 road
>crumpling number
>calling people novice
>afraid to show his usac
I can only assume this is because of bad results.

>>972044
it's connected to my name, retard, I'm not putting that on 4chan

>>971808
>"it's physically impossible to ride enough"
If you say that all the time then you're not training hard enough.
Try doing a couple 2-hour tempo rides at 70rpm every week for a few weeks, I guarantee you you'll get burned out.

tl,dr: blow me

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>>972001
These are just the ones I could find easily, there's more somewhere around here.

Yeah, I never race.

>>972016
>only 19
>already cat-3
Nice.

>bitches don't know that bib numbers get crumpled to shit just wearing them

>>972143
I was cat 3 when I was 15 and a half wassup lol

>tfw now 18 and still cat 3 because i jacked up my knees for over a year right before i turned 17

>>972139
>riding once a week
hi weekend fred

>>971219
Well this is my first season, not doing particularly well but I've got some years to improve.

>>972143
Thanks. I'm mostly mtb and just started road this spring. Won a couple races and now I'm a 3. A lot of 19 year olds are 1/2s now though. I race too much mtb, I'd like to try to go pro with that.
>>972146
i got my first serious bike (mtb) when I was 15. raced 6 times that year, only low level mtb. I sucked lol. Didn't get serious until I was 17 really. Good work tho senpai

>>972146
>>
>>tfw now 18 and still cat 3 because i jacked up my knees for over a year right before i turned 17

seth?

Just got a PM and had a short spin back from the LBS, noticed with 3 second av even trying to do a steady effort it was all over the place.

Presumably this will get better over time (?) but would putting it to 10s for now be fine?

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Hello /brt/

please dump all of your cyclist related memes

>>972210
yes :( :D
>>972217
10s is good

>>972234
Thanks m8
>>972225
Only one I have is spurdo jens

>>972217
Define 'all over the place'?
Also what kind of power meter is it?
If it's a PowerTap G3 then they just do that. Part of the problem is there is a bit of lag between effort and it showing up on the display. You get used to it and just ignore it. Don't use 10s averaging, that's too much, 2-3s at most. I don't use averaging at all, it drives me nuts.

>>972379
Stages crank.

I'm used to riding at to a constant pace, or heart rate. Power seems way more variable.

Like say I'm cruising along just doing 180 W or so, I'll often catch it going up or going down without much difference of feeling in the legs.

>>972382
There are always small variations in conditions and in your own body mechanics that will make the power jump around a little. You'll get used to it. Also when you're doing interval training where you need to stay in a power zone, it's not the second-to-second power readings that are all that important, it's the average power for the interval that really counts, although you should of course still work to stay in your zone at all times. It's never perfect though. It'll take a while for you to get used to riding with a power meter, don't sweat it.

I could use your opinions on something, guys.

Next week when I start a new training block, I have a couple choices for anaerobic interval training. I could continue with Z5b intervals (3 to 5 intervals of 3 to 6 minutes each with equal recovery between intervals; I'm currently up to 4 minutes), or 'Lactate Tolerance' intervals (4 to 8 intervals of 90 seconds to 2 minutes each in Z5c, with 2.5 times recovery between). Do you think I should continue the Z5b intervals, increasing the time per interval, or go for the Lactate Tolerance intervals? I'm leaning towards the Lactate Tolerance intervals.

>>972431
i dunno what those words meant?

>>972431
What are you training for? What style of rider are you?

>>972555
Road races (mostly), crits (some), and time trials.

>>972651
well nigger the LT intervals would be better for crits and the Z5b would be better for RRs. Both are are a little short for RRs, usually you'd do 3x10s or 2x20s for RRs or TTs, but you can get away with shorter intervals for RRs as long as you're still doing ample endurance. But I'm primarily an XCO racer so what do I know

>>972695
>usually you'd do 3x10s or 2x20s for RRs or TTs
okay, we're talking about different things, you sound like you're talking about Threshold intervals, and I'm talking about Anaerobic intervals.

>>972700
Yes but you're not giving me much to work with. Are you just doing anaerobic? A mix of a bunch? What is a training week for you? I can't just tell you which anaerobic one to pick without knowing context. Sorry, I got ahead of myself

>>972740
>Yes but you're not giving me much to work with
OK fair enough.

New training block starts next week. Weeks in this block (Build 2) will look more or less like this:
Mon: Off, or core/flexibility in the gym
Tue: Threshold ride (M6)
Wed: Endurance (E2) ride
Thu: Anaerobic intervals (either A2 or A5)
Fri: Endurance (E2) ride
Sat: Race-like fast group ride (counts as an A1)
Sun: Long Endurance ride (E2)

I'm using Cyclists Training Bible so that's what the references are.

The matter at hand is whether to continue the A2s, or start doing A5s.

>>972740
>>972747
Oh, the Wednesday or Friday ride will also probably have some speedwork (the 'S' workout menu, or similar) built into it, too.

>tfw you have to change your TT bike fit to make it uci legal

Had to slam my saddle back literally 5 inches or some shit. Lmfao
It's a bit fucked now and I have ridden it for 30 mins and I got my nationals TT tomorrow. At least I don't have to change my road bike fit.. . wish me luck bros!!!

>>973957
I don't understand a lot of their standards, good luck hopefully your change in fit doesn't come back to bite you in the ass

>>973959
Yeah it's super fucking dumb because it fucks with my knees. Lukcily it's just 21km. Also I've got to throw it back another 2cm, the bike shop had to get a different freaking seatpost with a setback in it, what the fuck? It can't have anything to do with aeroness because I swear I'm a bit more aero with the seat slammed back, it's just a way worse position for me.

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how bad is it to always ride hard? I have gotten into cycling recently and I always ride hard, but I am going a bit crazy these days and ride about 300km a week, all pretty much as hard as I can. Got a heart rate monitor and my 3-4 hour rides are at a 160bpm average usually, 1-2 hour rides are 170bpm. When I climb a hill at full power the highest I will reach is 195. This usually happens in a ride anyway because I climb any hill I encounter at full power, max climb is about 70m of altitude difference here so what can I do.

I am dutch so I have always been cycling everywhere, I ride my bicicyle to the supermarket which is about 2 minutes away and thats the only easy riding I do.

I feel perfectly fine physically and I feel that I am improving. A friend told me riding like this I will destroy myself, but if I feel fine is it okay to continue to ride hard? I tried going easy but its just not as much fun and I couldnt do that and have a good time. I love cycling the way I am doing it now

>>974113
it'll come back to get you eventually. Do you take any days off? If not, I would advise at least one easy day a week. Since you've just gotten into cycling recently, you'll probably notice a large improvement, but you almost definitely will plateau. Rest is where your body recovers.

I used to ride the same way as you, all rides hard. That was when I also was relatively new to cycling. Now that i'm on a serious training plan and racing frequently, I know the high efficacy of rest.

You can get away with it now, but you will notice your gains becoming less and less i'm afraid. Keep it fun though!

>>974115
>rest is where your body recovers
Whups, I meant to add recovers and gets stronger.

>>974115

>promise myself a zone 2
>turns into a zone 8

every
fucking
time

>>972747
hmm. I have a coach that doesn't really use the friel system so I must say I'm not familiar with his whole deal. Since you're only doing one day of anaerobic, it is a tough choice which one to do.

The Z5b intervals, which I assume is a bit less wattage than Z5c, might be useful for when you might attack and want to stay away in a race, but the Z5c intervals might be useful for that race winning uphill charge. You know your body, which one of those do you feel more confident with?

>>974115
well I usually get blackout hammered on friday evening so I take saturdays off, I hope being terminally hungover and recovering go together.

Fridays are usually my hardest rides too so I can recover that evening by getting shitfaced, feels so good.

>>974133
just fyi, alcohol calories don't actually aid recovery but rather go right to fat. but you probably don't care - when I learned that i was just surprised

>>974144
I am skinny as fuck since I started riding so I dont really care about calories but good to know I guess. Beer does contain a lot of carbs besides the alcohol though right?

>>974144
psuedo science

>>974120
In the time between when I made that post and you replied, I've done a bit more reading and research, and some thinking. The longer, lower-intensity anaerobic intervals don't really serve the same purpose as I thought they did, they're really for pushing up your VO2max power. The Lactate Tolerance reps are for developing staying power at the highest levels of your power output, like bridging up to breakaways or sprinting, and for quicker recovery from surges, like you'd experience coming out of the corners in crits. Once I digested all that for a while, I realized that that's the gap in my overall performance: I can generate the big numbers, but holding them up is a big problem for me. So what I think I'll be doing, is during Build 1 training blocks, I'll do the A2's (longer, Z5b intervals) and during Build 2's and Peak weeks, I'll do the A5's (Lactate Tolerance reps).

>>974144
>>974227
Not 'pseudo science', the effects of alcohol on endurance athletes is thoroughly studied and well documented. Alcohol consumption is one of the worst things you can do to yourself if you're any sort of endurance athlete. You're literally poisoning yourself, and your body allocates a considerable amount of it's resources to purging it from your body and reparing the damage, instead of your muscles and cardio-vascular system recovering like they should. The total effects of alcohol on your body can take up to 72 hours to be completely gone. It also dehydrates the fuck out you. Getting hammered all the time if you're a bike racer is just not a good idea.

>>974322
Sounds like a good plan. Glad you were able to reconcile your issue - sorry I wasn't much help. It is pretty hard to give such answers without personally knowing you/your abilities
>>974325
Good reply, thanks. Didn't realize the extent of it... Just thought it made you fat lol. But it makes sense, alcohol kind of is poison

>>974385
>It is pretty hard to give such answers without personally knowing you/your abilities
Oh, believe me, I know that. My expectations weren't particularly high, here, just thought there was an off-chance I'd get some sort of input. Ironically, I'm the one who added input on the subject for everyone else.

So I just got 17th in the TT after 16 months off the bike and 4.5 months of training.. did any1 else happen to race on a Thursday? lol

DNF for the first time today, mate and I went out of town for a race and I was stuck in a pretty aggressive handicap, needless to say I dropped 15km in to a 50km race, worst feeling. I've had poor results before but they were still rides I could be proud of but this time I know I could have done better and that eats away at me.

Fuck.

>>975107
What do you mean when you say you were 'stuck in a pretty aggressive handicap'? Do you mean something like it was a Cat-1/2/3/4 (everyone together, Category winners picked separately) race, the pace was high because of that, and you ended up off the back?

Just shrug it off and move on. This happens to everyone at some point or another, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

>>975186
Race was handicapped with the weaker riders going earlier, I was in with a faster group than I probably should have been and I dropped before we caught the group in front of us meaning my race was over. I know that it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but I still disappointed myself.

>>975189
Okay.. on the one hand, getting dropped sucks ass. On the other hand, you probably got some good anaerobic time in before you did, which is all to the good. It may have sucked as a race, but if you consider every race as also being training, then it's never a waste of your time.

One of the Sky dudes was riding around my tiny ass town last week for some reason. breddy crazy how fast those world tour guys are.

>>975948
Do you live in France?

>>975949
no, northern new england

>>975956
Who was it

>>976194
Ian Boswell

>>976408
he's american

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Finally going climbing this weekend!

On my usual rides I do a lot of short climbs but I have never encountered a hill thats more than 60m of elevation difference. Will be climbing pic related as my first long hill as it starts right outside the apartment I am staying. I am looking forward to it and am telling myself it will all be alright and ill just zip up there no problems. Realistically I will probably get angry and blow up after 1km. Any tips on how to survive? Or should I just try to find an easier climb first?

>>977390
oh yes I also live at 5m above sea level so I think the altitude might be a bit problematic. Although I have been hiking in the alps before and it never seemed a problem, but this is ofcourse a much harder effort.

>>977390
How far and fast do you normally ride?

I'll tell you right now, that's a brutal fucking climb. Moderate in length but consistently steep with no letup.

If your bike doesn't already have a low gear (like 36-32 or something) then if you can get that changed between now and then I'd definitely do so.

But it's quite likely you'll need to stop and take some breaks.

>>977393
I ride about 40-120km on my usual rides, usually 4 rides a week of mixed length. The shorter rides are usually at high intensity and I tend to average 33-35kph. Mostly flat with some hills thrown in but nothing very significant.

Lightest gearing I have is 34x28, I do prefer cadences of 95-105 so ill see how that works out, probably just going to have to get used to grinding a bit. I should have weight on my side at 62kg.

>>977398
You'll make it up. Remember that's at least 35 min climb if it's 14km. Prolly more. No matter how slow you go, don't get off to walk, it;s harer.

>>977469
My longest local climb is slightly shorter than that and half the gradient, it takes 40-45 minutes at a reasonable clip.

I can easily see that taking an hour and a half.

>>977469
>>977470
strava KOM is 55 minutes so it will take over an hour for sure

>>976746
yes
He's an american rider on Sky

>>977390
>doesn't climb
>lives at sea level
>is going to climb a mountain
>wants advice
..okay, do you have a power meter or at least a heart rate monitor? Because pacing yourself is key here. You can't go anaerobic for the entirety of a climb that length, you have to stay at Threshold, or lower. If you have neither then you're going to have to be the judge of what is and is not sustainable; that's the goal here, to be able to tackle a climb of this magnitude without having to stop until you hit the summit.
Note that even if you're familiar with spending long periods of time at Threshold, it's incrementally harder when it's a sustained climb, even at what should be the same exact level of intensity.
The only way to know if you can do it, is to do it. It's not like you're going to hurt yourself somehow if you try, at worst you blow up somewhere before the summit and have to either slow way down or stop.
Also I'd recommend picking a gear (where possible, at least; grade will often dictate this) low enough that you're spinning more than you are mashing, unless you've got mad amounts of muscular endurance and 70-80rpm is where you're most comfortble. Higher cadence is going to spare your muscles ability to produce force as much as possible, saving that for the steeper parts of the climb.

>>977525
I do have a heartrate monitor but I noticed I am better at riding near threshold by judging it by feel. I ride near threshold a lot so that should not be too much of a problem to do.

One big thing for me is that when I am at near threshold I am only comfortable at over 95rpm, with my lightest gearing this is at 14.5kph. This seems pretty much pro level for a 10% gradient so thats pretty much a no go. I do read about cadences being much lower when climbing for a lot of people so Ill see how that works out for me.

Another thing is clothing, its probably cold on a descent when not putting in power and going at high speed, am I fine if I take my wind stopping winter jacket and winter gloves or will I also need something for my legs and feet?

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>>977549
Anon this sounds awesome i am jealous as fuck. Stand to stretch often, don't speed up when you stand. Good luck to you. You'll maybe need something for your legs and feet if you're a little bitch.

>>977549
Also if you're really worried about the cold take a thermal as well. Weighs practically nothing and with gloves & a shell, will cover all your bases.

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>>977556
>>977561
thanks, yes was thinking as much, with my winter shell and my thermal I can cycle comfortably at freezing point so they should be alright.

I am hyped as fuck for this, ive looked at some streetview things of some things I am planning to ride on. Grosse Scheidegg from Grindelwald looks glorious, that descent is just heavenly. The road in pic related goes on for about 15km following that stream. Only people who live there are allowed by cage, its supposed to be a road with absolutely minimal traffic. I might die of euphoria, or more likely from a crash.

>>977476
That 9-10% segment looks especially suffering-inducing.
Godspeed nohills-anon,

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>>977568
ill post after the deed is done, probably sunday or even saturday if I feel like stretching my legs after the travel. My legs tingle in excitement.

>>977549
>I am better at riding near threshold by judging it by feel
How often do you actually test yourself, to establish your heartrate training zones? If it's more than every other month then 'Threshold' is probably not what you think it is anymore, which sounds like what you're describing.

>One big thing for me is that when I am at near threshold I am only comfortable at over 95rpm
Okay.. that sounds like one of your limiters is muscular endurance. At 95rpm you're producing less force per pedal stroke but still producing the same power because you're turning the cranks faster. During Late Base training do you do long Tempo rides at lower cadence (70-80rpm) and during advanced training blocks do you do Threshold intervals and long Threshold rides at 70-80rpm? That's the kind of training that builds the kind of muscular endurance that sustains you on long steep climbs like climbing 2500m over 14km.

Does your handlebar computer record data, or at least tell you what your averages are? One thing you could do on your mountain-climb ride, is to double down on it and use it as a performance test. Look at your average heart rate between the 10th minute and the 30th minute of the climb; this should approximate your functional threshold heart rate. Of course you'll have to not hold anything back during the first 30 minutes of the climb, though. xD

>temperature
On the way up, you'll probably appreciate the temperature going down. xD
On the way down, you'll just have to grin and bear it if it's cold, until you get far enough down that it starts to warm up. Or you could do like the pros do in TdF and carry a newspaper with you, and stuff it in the front of your jersey.
I've got a variety of team kit items just for this reason. Do you have arm warmers? Carry them with you and put them on at the summit before you head down.

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>>977669
Could you sperg any harder with shit that's irrelevant to a ride this weekend?
>On the way down, you'll just have to grin and bear it if it's cold, until you get far enough down that it starts to warm up. Or you could do like the pros do in TdF and carry a newspaper with you, and stuff it in the front of your jersey.
Or, you know, he could carry a shell & a thermal because he's not racing, riding a mountain pass, likely unsupported and doesn't want to fucking freeze to death should the weather turn.

>>977677
>Bike racing and training discussion thread
>complains about discussing something training-related
Do us all a favor and shove it up your ass, OK?

>>977681
haha ok senpai

I'm really used to riding only on flats and a coworker invited me on a 650m over 8.5km climb.

How fucked am i?

>>977788
gun butty

>>977549
95rpm is fine, I'm usually doing over 100rpm when doing intervals

I think theres some argument to be made that doing a bit of work in low cadence is very beneficial even if you make power more easily at high rpm

heart rate is pretty useless for intervals, its ok for base work but still not very good. Its useful in tracking long term fitness trends.

A trick that you can use for doing something like intervals on hills/riding at threshhold is to try and make it feel like you are going over your the power output you feel comfortable on the flatter sections and conserve your energy on the steep sections. The steep sections usually will keep your power up, people tend to take it too easy once the grade becomes easier. Once I finally got a power meter I was amazed at how much I was letting my power drop on the flat sections.

>>977788

Does your bike have gears?

>Yes!

It's an easy climb

>No :-(

Don't bother showing up

>>977832
>The steep sections usually will keep your power up, people tend to take it too easy once the grade becomes easier.
I've got a power meter, and I've been seeking out mountainous climbs the last couple years, and I've noticed that, too.

>>977864
yes its very noticable even without a powermeter, I tend to stay at the same exact same speed as the gradient eases, very difficult not to do that.

>>977832
>>977864
>>977890
Power is good for base training in this way. You can keep ~210W easier by going 210W up a climb (easy) then 210W down the other side (a weird feeling for people who have never used power)

I used to always be so used to just easing up on base rides when I'd crest a climb, but this winter getting "KEEP PEDALING! SAME POWER!" yelled at me while going DOWNhill was a new change. I like using power for this reason

>>977956
You should always be pedaling, even down to like 50w, just keeping the legs turning over helps to recover a bit, it also helps to not let your heart rate go too low, keep it in Z1 range if you have a section where you can fully recover if need be. When you let your HR bottom out you get this sluggish feeling getting back into Z2+power.

People realize they can add an easy 1-1.5mph to their overall average speed just by keeping a bit of power on while descending.

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>>966106
>I suffered from a constant nosebleed no matter what I was doing
>During the same week I had two nosebleeds
>Two days after the last, I had a midweek crit against the pros
>The race started
>Things are going better than expected.
>Breakaway.jpg
>Tries to close the gap
>Stars to bleed like someone who got their jugular artery cut off
>Spilled blood all over my white jersey

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I'd like to remind everyone in hilly areas to wear glasses when riding downhill in the summer, today I hit a bumblebee at 60kph and sadly my glasses (and neither the bee, probably) did not survive the impact.

>>978158
>fakeleys

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>>978222
better than this

>>978223

Muh grams

>>978158

A bumblebee? Wow!

>>978158
rip my lil bee nigga u coulda fucked so many flowers

>>978158
>2016
>Not wearing glasses of any kind while riding
So you want to go blind?

>>977863
Showed up, it was 1250m and 128km in the end, but I somehow managed, hooray.

>>978958

Sounds like fun

>>978082
i think u got brain cancer bruo

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>>977572
After some initial riding around and realizing climbing is actually very tough, I decided to go for some easier climbs first. I did the Grimselpass today which climbs about 800m at an average of ~7.5%, and I could not have gone much further without falling off the bike.

As I was expecting, riding around at a nice 100rpm like I do in the flatlands was simply not possible. Most of the climb I was in my lightest gear grinding 70-80rpm which was very uncomfortable for me. I hope ill get used to this cadence fast enough because I will need it.

I also felt a bit uncomfortable throughout my whole body and was a bit shaky and slow in the head long before my legs started complaining. I was drinking a lot and had a lot to eat before going so I expect its the altitude? This was 1400-2200m and I live at sea level, maybe thats siginificant enough at high intensity riding.

And then the fucking heat. It was only roughly 15C on the climb and I was overheating like mad. I now have mad respect for those pour souls riding the Tour de France who have to climb at temperatures of 25C+.

In the end I completed the climb at an average of 13kph which is good enough for a first proper climb I would think. And descending is absolutely the most fun I have ever had, until I got stuck behind a car.

/blog

I shot a nice road porn picture, pic related.

>>979076
>15°C
>too hot

m8 do you live in the arctic circle or something

>>979076

>Most of the climb I was in my lightest gear grinding 70-80rpm
>average of 13kph

Does not compute. Try again, and try to make it cogent.


>uncomfortable throughout my whole body and was a bit shaky and slow in the head

Could be altitude sickness, or something else.

> It was only roughly 15C on the climb and I was overheating like mad.

You were dressed wrong.

Additionally, you may have been eating oily or fatty foods when you were stuffing your stupid face before doing a big climb. Diet is an important part of core temp regulation.

If neither of those, you may have some kind of health issue. Because that's fucked up.

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>>979076
Sounds awesome. Climbing is like fighting a bear. You don't stop when you get tired, you stop when the bear gets tired.

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Do any of you take supplements or have experimented with supplements?

I tried some shit called citrulline malate
It kind of tasted like the sour part of sour patch kids, supposed to do some shit with ammonia production or some shit and help with aerobic metabolism
made my sweat like acid, not recommended

beta alanine, dunno if this was placebo or not, but it seemed to have a positive effect on short intense efforts like 3-4 minute climbs
makes your whole body itch for a while after taking it

vitamin B complex

this is the only one I'm convinced is not a placebo, I can certainly ride harder after taking this

>>979076
thats pretty normal for high grades, I'm 124lbs, in the 34t ring and 28t in the back, I can be doing over 300w on portions of climbs at 70rpm
I was just peeping some pro doing intervals on strava, he did 10 repeats on a hill that took 3 minutes and his cadence was down in the 40rpm range

spinning at 100rpm is good for racing, grinding out low cadence is good for training.

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>>979095
>Does not compute. Try again, and try to make it cogent.

what? some parts were a bit faster when the gradient eased but most of the proper climbing was done at around 12kph, which was 75rpm on my 34x28.

>If neither of those, you may have some kind of health issue. Because that's fucked up.

yep I do have a bit of a problem with heat, usually over 25C on the flat gets uncomfortable, but now 15C at slow speed and little wind I just had no air cooling at all and was suffering. It was also quite sunny at times and that sun really is very hot at this time of year.

>>979110
don't listen to that guy, he is certified retarded

lads I have an issue.

I'm mostly an mtb racer, but I started racing road this season. I think I'm starting to like road more. mtb racing makes me stressed out, it's like constantly racing time trials. It's still a lot of fun when you're doing well, but first laps are super stressful. Does anyone else feel the same way? I love road races, as you can just be grindin for some miles then just rage up climbs. That is the best feeling ever - being in a breakaway up a climb. I did it at some of the road races earlier this year and man it was like crack. Nothing better than being at like 350W suffering alongside other racers.

>>979076
D526?

>>979076
>As I was expecting, riding around at a nice 100rpm like I do in the flatlands was simply not possible. Most of the climb I was in my lightest gear grinding 70-80rpm which was very uncomfortable for me.
Yes, like I suspected: You don't have much of anything in the way of real muscular endurance.
You need to do long Tempo rides during mid-Base, at 70-80rpm, then Threshold intervals and rides at 70-80rpm during late Base through advanced training weeks, to build up your muscular endurance.. for climbing fucking mountains, dude.

>And then the fucking heat. It was only roughly 15C on the climb and I was overheating like mad.
Sure. Because you were redlining the entire time, due to lack of muscular endurance.

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>>979102
I take pic related vitamins. I've never found anything better.

During advanced training blocks I'll take Beta Alanine, seems to help short anaerobic efforts.

N-Acetyl-Tyrosine, especially on the morning of a FGR or race, along with caffeine of course. Helps with mental focus, fuels your adrenals and muscle contractions. Mock me all you like for it, but on such days, I prefer a can or two of Rockstar as my pre-race caffeine source. xD

I've also got straight powdered caffeine and a milligram-resolution scale and add 25 to 50mg of caffeine in my bike bottles, along with a little tyrosine and beta alanine.

If it's an important race I'll do a sodium phosphate loading cycle for the 4 days before the race, just for that extra few percent boost.

There's other shit I've tried in the past, but these are the ones that seem to have a positive effect.

any ftp gains lads?

>>980652
Two and a half weeks ago I (finally) got around to re-testing and FTP went up by about 5%.

Damnit.. it's still over 100 degrees outside and I need to go do a threshold ride.

>>980853
that's a fat gain. I gained 29 watts to mine as well, but I hadn't tested since mid january kek

>HOLD YOUR LINE!
>Fred shouts whenever you get in front of him on the straightaways of your local crit.

Does this happen to anyone else?

>>981472
No, just to retards who can't hold their line. Translated to english it means 'ride predictably and stop swerving, you dangerous prick'.

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..didn't want to create a whole new thread

>>981551
Got sauce on this?

>>981558
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6296/206

>>981551
I'll believe it. Training properly is still GOAT compared to almost any PED. For that matter being naturally talented is also GOAT, but I can see where that would be a sore subject for many riders.

Since I'm reminded of it, anyone have any opinions on altitude training? I don't mean those rediculous masks or even 'altitude tents' you install over your bed, I mean actually staying and training at altitude (like, say, ~9000 feet) for a couple weeks.

>>981551
>http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6296/206
Definitely want to see the full test

taking human growth hormone was the other half of doping with EPO

take EPO so you can go really really hard in training, take HGH to recover over night and do it again the next day

>>981551
>http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6296/206
>>981580
IT doesn't tell dosage. Doesn't tell diet. Doesn't tell training. Doesn't tell us if/how much their blood markers changed. Someone needs to post the whole study as they should have went trhough all of these things in their research.

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>>977390
I did it lads, was suffering like I never suffered before. Especially that low cadence was just painful but I had no choice with that fucking gradient.

10.6kph average is not that bad for a climb like this, r-right?

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>>981866
I also met some italians who went up there in a van to take a picture with the sign. What the fuck is wrong with Italians?

>>981866
nice effort mate

>>981878
Silly DH riders.

>>981866
Only 25 min off the KOM :^)

Memes aside, nice effort, that looks like an epic climb

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>>981918
>tfw slow

That cadence was way out of my comfort zone, so even with me being slow in the first place that might have made me even slower. Also the altitude probably had a negative effect for a pleb living at sea level.

Thats what I tell myself and that will make me sleep well.

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plen here, what is the best cassette gear ratio for top speed (if it isn't a 12/25)? Tired of maxing out at around 25 mph with my current cassette

>>982042
'best' cassette depends on where you ride and strong you are. But if you're spinning out at 25mph with a 12t cog then the problem is probably not your cassette, more likely you need a larger chainring. Tell us more about your current setup if you want specifics.

>>982055
I've got a 53/29 crank with a 12/25 cassette, I live in mildly undulating terrain (not mountainous) so anything higher than a 27 is too much. Ideally it appears that an 11/23 would be best (especially for my carbon wheelset) but there's no decisive answer, why I ask for input

>>982042
Stop mashing

>>982059
You max out at 25mph in 53-12? Are you riding a minivelo or something else with small wheels?

All this talk about gear ratios and max speed has got me thinking. Is there a table or a site where we can go to see avg/max speeds depending on cadence, gear ratios, power output etc?

>>982067
search 'Sheldon Brown gear calculator'

>>982063
this...

what cadence is that? like 55? fuck thats grinding along on a normal bike.


>>982042
basically regardless of where you are riding having a broader range of gearing than you think you will need can only benefit you. I have a 12-30 and it does help me because I am pretty shitty at climbing.

>>982067
http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed

thats the one I use.

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Figure I'll ask here before making a new thread. How do I know my bike is fitted properly, what are some things to look for? When I bought it the bike at the shop they fitted it to me and while I trust them I just want to make sure. The only knew pain i have is when I'm first starting my ride but it goes away after a few moments other than that I'm not sure what to look for. I can't touch the ground while on my saddle but I just move forward and straddle the bike.

>>982075
Also what is everyone talking about when they say 25/12 etc and when, as a novice, should I start worrying about it? I've had my bike for 3 days and so far have ridden 4-5 miles every day and plan to do a 5 mile ride tonight with some decent hills.

>>982075
numbness in hands, feet, dick (seriously), excessive pain in back, elbows ect. While some pain is to be expected on longer rides it shouldnt persist long after you stop riding. It should also be in a position that doesnt cause injury. Google up some youtube videos on basic fit for more info on saddle and handle bar placement.

>>982076
12-25 is a rear gear range, they make many different types for more specialized uses. 12-25 is a pretty average range suitable for an average rider, here a racer on flats may want a 11-21 gearing or a climber may want a 12-32 to make the hills easier. the numbers refer to the number of teeth on the cogs... it probably isnt something you need to worry about until you are riding 50-60 miles and maybe getting into the hills a bit.

>>982079
>>982081
I see. The only persistent pain I've had after riding is in my ass, and it's more of a soreness even with padded shorts. That's just becasue I'm not accustomed to the hard seat yet. I saw in another video they said not to wear underwear under your bike shorts is this a thing or is it like wearing underwear under your swim trunks?

>>982083
soreness in the ass goes away with more time in the saddle.. I have done a few 100+ mile rides and desu even in the 7-80 mile range I still get sore...

just dont wear underwear under your cycling shorts.. they will bunch up and make more areas of pain... desu anything under a 20 mile ride you probably dont need cycling shorts, or at least I dont bother.

>>982067
Try this one:
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

>>982042
>Tired of maxing out at around 25 mph with my current cassette
You're not 'maxing out', you're mashing at some really low RPM. If you want to sprint, you have to do it at high (>100rpm) cadence. The only way you should 'max out' in 53:12 is if you had at least a 3-man leadout and a good tailwind.

>>982088
I can hit about 40 mph with a 53x11 on the flats with my road bike. I can hold this for a few miles before I burn out. I always end up running out of gearing with a 46t when in route to the trails.. I understand you think you are some eilte rider that 'knows' everything about biking but I think you are just weak as fuck.

>>982089
>this fuck again

Go away. This is a productive thread.

>>966500
19 is plenty young
Find a group or team to train with if you are serious about racing
>>966531
>Would i have to drive out to some if none happen near me?
What the fuck do you think?

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>>982075
>>982076
Me again. How do I build up to longer rides/find routes to go? I don't want the money I spent on this bike go to waste. I've had my bike for three days and already the panic of "I should be doing X, why am I so bad" is already setting in. I hopped in my car today and charted out my ride for tonight, 5.5 miles but I feel like I should be doing more. I kind of want to find other people to ride with but outside of riding/work I'm a complete shut in and have a really hard time socializing with people. I figure I could also google routes, drive there and ride those but I'm kind of at a lost. All this is totally new to me.

>>982114
Did you get your bike from a shop? If so, most shops have organized rides for beginners that you can join. Otherwise, just google '[your town] cycling group' and you'll find people.

As for building up - just gradually increase the maximum length of your rides, when you get comfortable doing 10 mile rides, you'll be fine with 15, then 20, then 30, and so forth... If your goal is to progress as quickly as possible, start doing core exercises and stretching right away, and once you've got some basic strength and are comfortable on the bike, you can do interval training.

>>982120
Thanks. Another thing too is where I like the climate is hot year round (Hawaii) and I generally wait until evening to ride. all I can think about during the day is how much I wanna go ride now but I know trying to ride in heat is a bad idea. I plan to ride 6 days a week and I'll get up a few hours before I need to be to work so I can ride before I go in. I should get built up fairly quick.

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>>982089
>I can hit about 40 mph with a 53x11 on the flats with my road bike.
See pic related

>I can hold this for a few miles before I burn out.
>***FOR A FEW ***MILES***, HE SAYS***
(see pic related times 1,000,000)
My sides.. exploding.. Oh GOD PLEASE STOP I CAN'T BREATHE YOU'RE KILLING ME

>I always end up running out of gearing with a 46t when in route to the trails.. I understand you think you are some eilte rider that 'knows' everything about biking but I think you are just weak as fuck.
Gee, thanks, whoever you are, that was the biggest, most unexpected LAUGH OUT LOUD I've had all week! Nice job!

>>982141
>replying to ancient pasta
wew lad

>>982164
>implying anyone has seen ALL THE COPYPASTA there is
Besides, it was so rediculous that I actually did LMAO.

>>982331
>it was so rediculous that I actually did LMAO.

You absolute madman!

I have a compact crank (50/34) and just bought an 11/23 cassette for my Ultegra Di2 6700 build. Is there foreseeable a compatibility issue with this pairing that even the electronic derailleur adjustments couldn't resolve?

How do I get going faster on flat land? I know it comes with experience but I'm looking for ways to improve quick. Been biking for 4 days so my stamina is still shit.

>>982549
Not that I can see. Double check your specs if you are worried.

>>982552
Learn to spin instead of mashing
Use your gearing to get you up to speed instead of just using all your power to get yourself going.
Stay on the drops
Proper bike fit will create more power
Do some intervals
Go longer

>>982552
>How do I get going faster on flat land?
You do realize that question is pretty much impossible to answer because it's too generalized and we know absolutely nothing about you; the only answer anyone can give to you without lots more information is 'ride more'.

>Been biking for 4 days so my stamina is still shit.
Please tell me you mean you rode for 4 days straight, and not that you've been riding 4 days total your whole life?

'Getting fast' takes anywhere from months to years depending on your definition of 'fast' and what your state of development is at.

Go find the .pdf version of 'The Cyclists Training Bible' 3rd edition and start reading. Then figure out what your goals are.

>>982549
I don't know why it would. So long as both derailleurs are installed and adjusted correctly, and your chain is the correct length, they shouldn't care what chainrings and cassette you have.

>>982334
Hey: I got this visual of some petulant 12-year old, who knows Jack Shit about bike racing, sitting there in front of his keyboard actually typing that shit out, thinking he's being all big-and-bad. I just cracked up at it. This is 4chan after all, you know there's some dumb kids out there who would say shit like that.

>>982334
Also, consider this: You're at 200m to go and decide to start the sprint, in no time at all your HR is 5bpm above the highest you've ever seen it at, your brain is telling you YOU ARE GOING TO DIE NOW but you keep working like the Devil himself is chasing your ass down; those 200m seem like a couple miles, and you know it!

>>982584
I actually just got back into cycling, though the last I rode an actual bike was overy 10 years ago and that was just a Walmart bike. I'm in shape according to navy standards and usually burn 110 calories on the stationary bike in 12 minutes, with a 131 body weight but outside of that I need to work on my fitness

>>982612
Well, OK, but like I said before, 'getting fast isn't something that takes a trivial amount of time, it takes months, and you still haven't said what your goals are with regards to cycling. Wanting to race is one thing, just wanting to 'git gud' is something else entirely, and the difference is how much time and effort you're willing to put into it. The simplest reply is if you just want to 'git gud', in which case you just 'ride more'.

>>982612
>>983033
This, at your meager fitness literally riding at all in a somewhat frequent fashion will make you "faster"

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>stop riding for two months
>gained over 12 lbs
>tfw thighs hitting gut when I ride
can't even stand around wearing a normal shirt without it bulging

I am considering upgrading my compact Ultegra 6750 crank to a standard 53/39, what is the best crank (a non-Power Meter crank) for maximal stiffness and lightweight if money is of no concern? I am running a Di2 10-speed grouppo, and am particularly keen on FSA K-Force cranks, but I would like some advice

>>983256
what cassette?

>>983263
An Ultegra 11/23 10-speed cassette

For reference, I live and train in a mildy undulating region, but there are plenty of flat areas as well. And I've been cycling for years and feel that I have strong enough legs to handle such a cassette and crank gear ratio combination; plus, I'm getting frustrated maxing out on my 12/25 + compact crank combination

>>983266
I should add: there are some fairly large hills nearby, and I sometimes train at a local "mountain" (550 feet of elevation gain in a 1.5 mile long climb), and, despite having always used a compact crank, I have never needed to shift down into the lower chainring- I state this to demonstrate such a high gear ratio shouldn't be too ambitious for me (again, there are no real mountains nearby)

>>983266
So you're currently riding a 12-25? Just switch to a 11-23. Having an 11t will make a huge difference.

If you're riding a 7% avg hill in your big ring it sounds like you just need to get good mate, that's awful.

>>983275
I have never once gotten passed ascending this mountain m8, how is this awful? Even at a lower cadence I exert higher torque and it works out

>>983287
Read literally all the posts above. High cadence is more efficient and lasts longer, I don't care what you say. I did low cad big ring grinding as well. It's just not as good unless you've been doing it for years and years and years and years

>>983301
*It's just not as good unless you're Johan Museeuw & doped to the gills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnX4uaDYyIU
^stays in the big ring even on 20% ramps

>>983287
No but for reals you're a slow faggot and your knees will explode one day, get gud

>>983308
hahaha I love that video, absolute madman, love to see the ratio he's doing. it doesnt look like he shifts once

>>969511
>5 year plan
Дa, listen to this тoвapищ.

Doing my first group ride on Friday. 25 miles at a 20mph pace. Should I just keep riding in this club until a scout watches or get a race licence

high cadence is a meme

its starting to trend back to lower cadence for climbing

porte, kwiatkowski use pretty low cadence

>>983301
You train muscular endurance at low (70-80rpm) cadence because when you encounter a climb that you don't have a choice but to climb at low cadence, you otherwise won't be able to produce the torque required for long enough. By all means do spin faster on climbs if you can but you need to be prepared for steeper climbs too.

>>983657
>Should I just keep riding in this club until a scout watches or get a race licence
Uh, I don't think any 'scouts' are watching 20mph group rides, m8.

Whether you go get a race license and try racing is up to you, since we know nothing about you (other than you're a complete newbie).

>>983658
See: >>983704

>>969511
>start using PEDs
Faggot please leave

Daily remind that bicycle racing has fuck-all to do with transportation and belongs in
>>>/asp/
>>>/asp/
>>>/asp/

>>983657
nigger, I can do 30+ mile rides at 21 mph solo fairly often and there are no "scouts" watching me. not sure if you're baiting but you're a bit delusional. get a license
>>983725
lol trainfag this thread has been going on a long time so fuck right off. salty faggot

>>983725
>/asp/
There's nothing alternative about bicycle races, it's a mainstream sport.

>>983795
mph doesn't mean shit without stating elevation gain

>>984320
only 1400 feet for 30 mi, not much I know, but headwinds for half and tailwinds for the other half. It wasn't some flat windless ride

My frame manufacturer wrote back to me telling me that the BB standard is "English threaded bottom bracket." What does this mean, that it's only BB30 or anything else?

>>984638
It's a 68mm BSA gang threaded shell. It's not BB30. BB30 is a confusing name for what's actually several incompatible pressfit standards. You're lucky. All modern threaded bottom brackets are of this type. HTII, GXP and the standard square taper cartridges.

>>984640
Please educate me anon: I am trying to research for replacement cranks (a compact for a standard) that are compatible with my frame; hours of looking online has been inconclusive because of said ambiguities. Which BB standards are compatible only with this 68mm BSA gang threaded shell dimension? For reference the current BB is a Shimano BB-6700

>>984644
>BB-6700
So you have a HTII chainset. Any Shimano HTII will work. SRAM GXP and Campagnolo Power/Ultra-Torque are also compatible, but you need the BB to match the chainset obviously. You don't need to replace the bottom bracket, but you might as well if you're pulling things apart anyway. They're cheap.

Were you replacing an existing standard 52/39 chainset with a new compact? Tenspeed?
In that case I'd suggest the FC-5750 available for about €100, or the FC-4650 for half that and actually a few grams less. The SM-BBR60 BB is less than €20 and a good buy. You need a HTII wrench and a preload cap tool unless you have those already.

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>>984645
I'm interested in FSA cranks, and their compatibility chart seems to have answered everything I believe- you are right about BB30 being incompatible with my frame I see.

>Were you replacing an existing standard 52/39 chainset with a new compact? Tenspeed?
Other way around, I'd be exchanging a compact for a standard since I live in a fairly flat, non-mountainous region.

And thankfully, I don't have to deal with press-fit nonsense since by design the external-cup design is simple to replace with a normal BB wrench tool

>>984646
>FSA cranks
Are generally said to be flexy and poor shifting, the FSA bottom brackets of poor quality and the axle/BB tolerances so poor that using the theoretically compatible HTII bottom brackets is not always possible without play. A Shimano crank even at the 105 level is often the suggested upgrade. If I were buying a new crank it wouldn't be a Gossamer. I'd spend the extra few schekels and buy Shimano, unless you're getting the Gossamer almost for free.

>>984647
Thanks for the update. Would you instead recommend a Dura Ace 7900 or 9000 standard 53/39 crank instead? For reference my drivetrain is a 6750 Ultegra Di2 10-speed

>>984648
I wouldn't run an 11spd chainset on a tenspeed group. The other way around is fine, but narrow chainring gaps and a wide chain is liable to get the chain caught on the pins when crosschaining.
7900 if you can get it cheap, or even just third party rings for the chainset you have. Easy, as it's a five arm chainset. It also gives you the option to try out oval chainrings and is way more rad than a standard chainset.
A 110mm 36/38t or even 42t inner chainring and a 52t outser will set you back less than a Dura-Ace chainset. CRC has absoluteBLACK 52/36t oval chainrings in 110mm compact diametre for cheap. Also round Rotor rings in any combination you'd wish for up to 54/39t, ovan up to 53/38, still in 110mm.

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>tfw back in the flat Netherlands just as I finally got comfortable with the climbing in the glorious Swiss alps

When climbing over there I noticed that my heart rate got significantly lower over the course of the two weeks, probably from getting used to the altitude. First few climbs I was in the red all the time heart rate wise (180bpm) because my legs could easily keep up with that. Ended up with my whole body shaking and shivering with the legs feeling fine. A week and a half later it was the other way around, 160 average HR which is low for me, in the lowlands I can hold 170 for an hour quite easily. I was significantly faster at the end with the 160bpm than I was at the start with the 180bpm, clearly the legs were limiting towards the end resulting the in the lowish heart rate. Should really work on riding at low cadence riding because I think that was limiting me on those steep long climbs, being at 70rpm for over an hour. I did feel significantly more comfortable with the low cadence towards the end as well but hell, time was up.

So a tip for anyone who is from the flatlands who wants to go do some significant climbing: train at low cadence before you go, you will need it for the steeper gradients and its a waste of time when you are struggling on the actual trip. Also going to the high mountains as a sea level pleb might not be the best idea either, takes time to get used to and reduces the time for the true fun.

I am wondering about my heart rate back here though, I expect it will be significantly lower than it was, wonder if that will make me faster or whether its purely the legs that determine the pace in the end.

>>984695
>>So a tip for anyone who is from the flatlands who wants to go do some significant climbing: train at low cadence before you go, you will need it for the steeper gradients and its a waste of time when you are struggling on the actual trip.

I appreciate your experience (and enjoyed the comfypics) but another way to remedy this would be lowering the ratios on your drivetrain, either with a larger cassette or compact chainrings or both.

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>>984696
I thought of that before hand, and went with a 34x28, which is quite granny already, or so I thought. Did not want to go with the 34x32 because I thought that was just for fat freds.

I did a 13km at 9% climb and it was grinding even with the 34x28 gearing. I think most people just assume 34x28 would be just fine, I did.

So yeah dont underestimate the gradients I guess, hell even with a 34x32 there might be some uncomfortable grinding for a spinny flatlander.

>>966106
Thread is currently on auto-sage; please post in the new thread: >>984715

>>984700
I just plugged it into a gear calculator, at the speed 34x28@70 RPM gets you, you'd be doing 80 RPM on a 34x42.

It's a small gain. It's also interesting because that's the shortest ratio you can actually get on modern 2x drivetrains without various fuckery.

>>984720
not much indeed, in the end I think you are better off just training at low cadence then eh. I watched some pros on strava, they climb at 60-70rpm a lot.

>>984718
What is autosage?

>>984867
Over 300 posts new posts stop bumping a thread, so it eventually falls to the bottom of the board and gets pruned.