/upg/ - Urban Planning General

>>1083852

What the fuck.

Why would ANYONE go there, for any reason, ever? Except to take money from as many people as possible, I mean.

>>1083856
Well this thread is off to just an absolutely dog shit start. Thanks autismo.

>>1083859

Thank the OP for posting such a dogshit place for human life. I would literally rather take a stroll through TEPCO's Fukishima holdings.

>>1083861

I'm the OP.

>make new thread
>know image will piss some sperglord off several thousand miles away
>do it anyway
>see these posts
>laugh

Well done.

>>1083861
Feel free to blow your worthless brains out at any time.

>people are MAD that they can't live in the best city in the world

>>1083865
With a transit system on its way towards rivaling WMATA as the most decrepit system in the country, yeah

>>1083867

After numerous fuckups this year, it is definitely in need of modernization, but NYC is the rare exception in America of having a truly integrated mass transit system woven deep into the city fabric. One of the few systems that is so extensive in a city so dense that 75% of Manhattanites don't even own a car.

It deserves its fair share of criticisms after numerous delays this year alone, but only because the city had a world class transit system that was nonexistent in most other cities by the turn of a century; long before contemporary standards, planning and regulations. Renovation of a century old system is much more difficult than just building shit from the ground up like they do in the far east.

>>1083864
>>1083865

>Hell on Earth
>"This is great guys!"

Literally worse than Trump voters.

>>1083870

Alright, anon, let's be constructive here.

It's definitely by no means anyone's ideal place to live.

What is YOUR ideal place to live?

>>1083871

The Greek isles are mostly okay.

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Will the self-driving car revolution increase or decrease vehicle traffic? Will streets be widened or repurposed? Will self-driving cars cause an increase or decrease in urban density?

>>1083884

It will wildly decrease traffic. 100% of traffic delays are the result of bad driving by people who should never have been allowed to.

>>1083886
That is certainly true, but it may be counteracted by increased use of home shopping services.

>>1083884

Brave new world type shit here. It may encourage lower density as people may live farther away from where they work (if they even travel to work at this point) due to increased speed, less traffic delays. It may encourage higher density in the denser urban core as people can take personalized trips to work and back with less and smarter cars on the road, allowing for even MORE people to be jam packed into an area.

I think we'll start to see polarization of what kind of densities there are, with less middle ground between suburb and urban. I remember in the cars in I, Robot could go in speeds excess of 100 miles per hour because they were automated. Probably won't see anything like that soon, but in theory we could slice commute times in half or more.

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>>>1083852 (OP)

>>1083896
>real cities have curves

>>1083886
>100% of traffic delays are the result of bad driving by people who should never have been allowed to.

are you actually retarded? do you not understand how capacity works

>>1083903

I can absolutely guarantee you that I have a stronger theoretical and practical basis for this than you do.

Capacity is utterly meaningless when the entire system is crippled by actors which are working to undermine it for their own perceived short-term advantage.

To put it simply, you can have a ten lane highway. That highway can be occupied by a tiny handful of vehicles, and those vehicles will cause each other to experience delays for literally no reason at all.

If you somehow don't understand this, you are either totally inexperienced or clean out of your fucking mind.

>>1083908
Road rage, look out!

>>1083909

>I dismiss anything I don't understand

r u a girl?

>>1083908
Roads/highways still have a lower pphpd than your average subway train even under perfect conditions.
No amount of automation can increase the maximum theoretical throughput of a road

>>1083922

That's a completely retarded truism.

No amount of automation can increase the maximum theoretical throughput of a railway.

But hey guess what. A reasonable level of accountability and training for conductors is mandatory for safety and acceptable throughput of that railway. In lieu of which automation rapidly begins to seem appealing.

>>1083927
Right, so what I'm saying is, autonomous cars will never replace high capacity transit unless you want 30 lane highways everywhere.

>>1083944
Not to mention that fully automated fixed guideway transit already exists

Look, automation can improve traffic flow by reducing following distance and human error, but you eventually run into the issue of geometry. Single occupancy cars are just not an efficient use of space, autonomous or not. The only thing you can do is either get people to ride transit or perpetually widen the roads

>>1083892
I wouldnt be surprised if this happens. Sad because we were finally on our way to densification and mass transit.

>>1083944


Mmmm. Doesn't necessarily follow.

Scaling those metrics has to take into account maximum carrying capacity of the biosphere for human life, which we are already exceeding in practical terms if not technically.

That is to say, there is a maximum density of transit on Earth. That maximum density is not globally supportable and won't be reached in most places.

If 5% of your global population is dense enough to be most efficiently served by high capacity transit, quite a lot more than that may be most efficiently served by low-capacity transit.

I'm simplifying, but you're waaaaaaaaaaay over-simplifying.

>>1083950
Sure, a fleet of autonomous cars/vans would be a good replacement for a lot of suburban bus systems and especially paratransit. I'll give you that.
But where high capacity transit is actually needed, like in cities, automation is way better suited for buses and trains. (Imagine everyone in the NYC Subway in their own autonomous car. It would be pandemonium). Labor is one of the biggest costs for transit systems today, and eliminating that would allow them to run trains/buses more frequently without significantly increasing their costs.
I live in Seattle. Traffic on I-5 is terrible. Automating everyone's car would improve things a little, but traffic would still suck because there are too many goddamn cars trying to get on the freeway. "Muh autonomous cars" are usually just a concern trolling tactic used by people to oppose investment in fixed guideway transit. In the Seattle Times comment sections you'll usually see people claiming that the rail extensions will be obsolete by the time they're built because driverless cars will completely solve congestion. Which is totally fucking bullshit.

>>1083952

Good examples, yah.
Totally agree.

>>1083856
>>1083861
>>1083870
Street level vs aerial view

>>1083946
Do you mean guided in general (including rail) or guideway (eg rubber-tyred concrete tracks) transit?

>>1083868
Living in a modern transit city I am baffled by the amount of criticism towards systems with a century long history. They can be better and improved. We shouldn't deny their roots, record and standing. Evolving an embedded network deep underground is hard. Look at all the old pipelines buried just beneath street level and you can tell the scale of work.

>>1083884
it will increase traffic because every innovation that allows higher speeds and higher capacity increases traffic. Wider highways dont solve congestion and autonomous cars wont either.
also this >>1083892 and this >>1083952

>>1083976
I was talking about rail. Vancouver Skytrain for example, I believe it's fully automated.
I don't think driverless buses are in use anywhere on a large scale, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use it on a gold-standard BRT system (which doesn't exist in the USA).

>>1083898
The city has four of those

>>1083952
Can you or some other burger explain to me why your whole fucking country hates trains so much?

>>1084028
Watch this video and other related content from the channel. It should give you a good quick rundown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ
Cars are seen as a luxury and a guarantor of freedom in the US. If you don't own a car, you're trash. Practically nobody lives within walking distance from work, everyday shopping, doctors and bars. Combine this with low population density outside of the East Coast and California and endless suburban sprawl, and trains just are no viable means of transportation anymore. It's either the car or the plane.

>>1084029
>Practically nobody lives within walking distance from work, everyday shopping, doctors and bars.
I asked about trains
>Combine this with low population density outside of the East Coast and California and endless suburban sprawl, and trains just are no viable means of transportation anymore.
So why are the trains in the East Coast and Cali shit then?

>20 seconds into the video and the guy said Florida, Illinois, and Ohio aren't dense enough for trains
You could get San Diego- Portland, Dallas- Orlando/Miami, NYC- Orlando/Miami and NYC-Chicago High speed lines with no issue about nobody living on the route

>>1084031
>I asked about trains
Ye sorry, didn't finish that thought. Whenever someone needs to go somewhere, they hop in the car. They never walk there. So walking to a bus stop or train station never even occurs to them.
>So why are the trains in the East Coast and Cali shit then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwjwePe-HmA

>>1083950
what the fuck lmao what are you talking about? What is your theoretical background in again?

>>1084015
Guideway refers to guidance by a guideway duh. Rail is guided by tracks.
What >>1083946 said people would think about AGT not guided transit systems, let alone rail.

>>1084029
> "Cars are seen as a luxury and a guarantor of freedom in the US. If you don't own a car, you're trash."
It's called a necessity.

>>1084052
Mobility is a necessity and can be achieved by various different means, including public transit. That should be the preferable option in all urban areas.

>>1084052
>It's called a necessity.
You shouldn't have to rely on the oil and insurance jew to get around. Trains, whether high-speed, branch line, or surburban commuter line are all superior
>>1084035
Planes are subsidized, and case after case in Europe shows that passengers are willing to wiat a few more hours for cheaper travel, and no airport shit. That guy Wendover Productions seems to hate trains for some reason tbqh

>>1084054
>>1084065
That's why I reworded that false language for him.

>>1084049
>implying rails aren't a guideway
fuckin lmao

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>>1084028
In this particular context, it's because cagers take every infrastructure project that isn't highways as a personal attack. Obviously it's by Kelly, so it's satire, but a lot of people genuinely think this way.

anyone else ever make cities in Simcity and other games, where there were no roads, only rail/ship/air transit?

>>1084028
People hate paying taxes. Transit is seen as heavily subsidized while people don't realize how much highways are subsidized

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Vancouver is a pretty cool place.

>>1084080
they don't understand that traffic cost them and the economy money. While good mass transit can make money for the economy. even if it is a loss leader.

>>1084082
if you like paying million loons for a shitty old tiny house on a tiny lot, because the chinks bought everything up.

>>1084077
>>1084080
We have that here as well (UK), except with every project not just trains. We call them NIMBYS and they get BTFO every time.

>>1084075
If you are serious: look, guideway has a specific meaning. Guided (as in guided bus) is the umbrella term for these transit systems, or you can use rail.

>>1084097
Fixed guideway transit has a legal definition. Look it up. It's anything that has its own track. This means light rail, subway, monorail, and could be broadly construed to include BRT.

It's not the same thing as AGT in that not all fixed guideway systems are autonomous.

>>1084094
>and they get BTFO every time
This is unfortunately not the case in burgerland

>>1084079

Pretty sure lots in SimCity have to be next to a road for them to be developed. I could see making street defined neighborhoods that are only connected to one another via rails.

>>1083886
Hey, decreasomg traffic delay =\= decreasing traffic

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>>1083852
Here in Finland, my friend lives in this new neighborhood, called Kartanonkoski.

It's very comfy, the major dogshit bad side about it that it's in the middle of nimby-car suburbs and malls but it's a resonable bike ride away from her job and the nearest regional railway station (~2,5km by bike paths), which has trains to central Helsinki every 10 minutes.

I like the pretty colours and red roofs on it, resembling a old, classic Swedish style buildings. It has different buildings in it from 5 storey apartment buildings to double floor terraced houses with own little yards.

Sad the new residential areas aren't build like this, just glass and soulless white walls.

Pic related, downright corner is a satellite view of the area.

>>1084028

To be fair they're not much use outside of major metropolitan corridors.

Mass transit is most efficient in compact urban areas, and compact urban areas are most efficient with mass transit. The two build off each other. It's a chicken and the egg type scenario, where one usually has to be implemented first to induce demand for the other. This usually involves risk, as one side usually has to jump first if there is a collective have a goal in mind.

Some areas where I think high speed rail is a viable option is LA-San Fran (currently being built), the Seattle-Olympia-Portland corridor, the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor, and the DC-Philadelphia-New York corridor. Most of these do have some rail connection, just not a line that keeps the commute/travel times under 2 hours.

>>1084028
In my state the first salvo out of any rural legislator is that they don't want to pay for the urban areas trains. Nevermind that the urban area contributes more tax money than rural areas.

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>>1083896
>tfw they have been refurbishing the bs.as - la plata line for almost 2 years and they still havent finished.

>>1084131
You can rip out the streets after

>>1084210
They just now finished. I read two days ago that tickets are already on sale.

>>1084142
Reminds me of Münster-Gievenbeck. Similar style of architecture involving lots of red bricks, similar street layout and bicycles everywhere.
>I like something Swedish
Whoa Finland

>>1084128
> It's not the same thing as AGT in that not all fixed guideway systems are autonomous.
I didn't say that.
So what do we call those systems running on a guideway?

>>1083896
Mmmm, Buenos Aires is fucking tasty.

>>1084255
"Fixed guideway transit"
A guideway is literally any kind of reserved, generally grade separated route

>>1084337
Which, if it wasn't immediately obvious, includes rail

>>1084143
>To be fair they're not much use outside of major metropolitan corridors.
That's a meme. They can be used quite well to go to market towns.
>>1084192
>Nevermind that the urban area contributes more tax money than rural areas.
You bribe them with a nice parkway station with an hourly service. Problem solved.

>>1084028
Not an American, but when it cost almost as much as travelling voa aircraft or high speed rail but the journey time is abput as long as buses I think it is natural to hate trains...And delays is also frequent which erased the benefit of rail too
Especially when it seems to be public and using valuable resource (land, public money, etc.)

>>1084345
I'm talking rural areas inaccessible by trains. The leaches on the urban fabric.

They have no problems taking the train from park and rides to sporting events but if I'm not going to ride it I'm not going to pay for it!

>>1084345

>market towns
>look it up

Yeah, this is the US, not England. Market towns are the US equivalent of exurbs of major metropolitan areas, which would include metropolitan corridors. Stuff like Joliet/Naperville in Chicagoland.

>>1084461

>Pretending the state of Illinois has any merit

>>1084255
>>1084337
>>1084340
THE guideway.

>>1083975
This so much

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.ca/2015/08/point-of-view-matters-scourge-of.html

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How do I reconcile my love for large, high density cities and love for cars/highways?

I think Tokyo is the only city that has the two things. Massive and dense metropolis, and a very efficient road network. You have to pay a toll to use some ring-style expressway but traffic isn't nearly as bad as in most large western cities. London was on the right track up until the 70s, sadly we now have an anti-car consensus thanks to all the Labour-voting faggots here. The Caliph Sadiq Khan is even proposing to ban parking from new developments altogether.

Webm related: I love this city, it's a shame all the muslims keep ruining it

>>1084516
Private car + large, high density city = congestion.

>>1084523
Tokyo disagrees.

>>1084530
Rail dominate Tokyo transit and Tokyo is not free from congestion.

>>1083856
I live there, it's fine. some good ppl, some bad ppl. I want to move out to the countryside for biking/hiking/fishing/camping, but it's pretty fun to live in nyc.

>>1083868
yeah, it's definitely getting worse over time, as each further improvement costs incredibly large amounts of resources to implement.

but yeah, no other city in america has, like you said, "truly integrated mass transit." e.g. MTA+commuter rail+ a bike = I can get almost anywhere for a solid 100 mile radius away from the city w/o a car.

>>1084142
I wish you Europeans would participate in this gen more often, I have very little of an idea of what your new subdivisions look like

>>1084394
>I'm talking rural areas inaccessible by trains
They don't have the numbers to form significant oppostion.
>>1084461
> Market towns are the US equivalent of exurbs of major metropolitan areas, which would include metropolitan corridors. Stuff like Joliet/Naperville in Chicagoland.
I looked up Joilet. That's not a market town, that's just a place on the edge of Chicago. I meant places like Grantham, Lincolnshire

>>1083952
Sup Seattlebro

Our city needs more bus lanes. ST3 takes forever, so we need results now.

>>1084090
Here the racism is somewhat justified. Out-of-country buyers have been ruining the market, mostly the super rich from China.

It's still just a portion of the Chinese, not all of them.

>>1084516
How do Muslims ruin something?

I've lived within walking distance of a mosque my entire life. No one is violent and no community has been ruined, They have a smaller parking lot than most churches.

>inb4 too progressive to post on 4chan
>inb4 "religion of peace/war" bullshit

Of course Islam is not a religion of peace. The Bible includes commands to stone disobedient children and commit genocide, but we don't hear about it that much. The followers I know are just fine, and if they proposed any Sharia bullshit, our city would shut it up real fast.

>>1084621

It's because Muhammad was a prick whereas Jesus at least preached peace, and a majority of Muslims do believe shit like bombings are justified. The fear is mostly overblown and you're more likely to die by the hands of some crazy right/left winger, but there is some rationale behind it.

>>1084516
>ring-style expressway
>>1084523
>>1084530
>>1084539
Tokyo has a extensive spider web network and as expected the most congestion occurs on radial not circumferential routes, save for Inner Circulate Route which still sees less traffic for some years already.

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>>1084600
Well, I've been lurking /n/ for a long year but posted only couple of times until recently. /n/ overall lacks European posters.

Picture is Kaleva neighborhood in Tampere, where they are building a new light rail system. More about http://www.tampere.fi/en/transport-and-streets/tramway.html

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>>1084632
And oh yes, since we are in /n/, must brag that we have shared walk/bike paths everywhere from NIMBY-subrubs to cities.

Only annoying thing about them is small school children walking middle of the road but usually people walk on the right side and we cyclist and pass them by center. Also on more rural areas or next to busy road, these shared-use paths are or mopeds too, so people on scooters etc. can safely ride too.

Pic related, see the one car lane wide path on right for pedestrians and cyclists.

>>1084516
>traffic isn't nearly as bad as in most large western cities
And why exactly do you think that is?

>>1084621
Not in London but in my community Muslims refuse to vaccinate their kids because they think it will give them autism. (srs). This has led to outbreaks of measles in the community which should realistically never happen in a civilised society. Cab drivers refuse to give you a ride if you have alcohol which is an issue when most cab drivers are Muslim. Cashiers refuse to ring up your purchase if you have pork products. Members are being radicalised and going off to the Middle East to fight for ISIS. Only a matter of time before they strike at home and not in another country.

>>1084621
Look at London.
Look at French Muslim-controlled districts, where women without burkas are not welcome, and where women entering a bar will be asked to leave.
Their culture is different from the western nations. It's not a problem if they are minority, but it's a problem when this minority thrives to become a majority. And they do.

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Anti-cagerism is a blessing upon the condition of living.

>>1084610
Yeah, it's going to be a mess downtown when they kick all the buses out of the tunnel. Good thing I reverse commute out to Everett.

I'm eagerly awaiting the opening of North Link, since the bus-rail integration at UW station is awful. Things will be pretty much set once the ST2 portions of Link get built out. They're also gonna have more BRT-lite "Rapid"Ride routes by then too

>>1084733
It all looks good but you're forgetting businesses on a street like that rely on deliveries both in and out. It's interesting how the same people who preach for streets like that are also shocked and appalled by de death of high streets in the face of competition from online warehouse businesses.

When the average person's total shopping weights more than 5kg and is clumsy/oversized and they're given the choice of carrying that on a bus or ordering it online to be delivered to their doorstep, they will pick the latter as parking/driving isn't an option anymore.

This anti-car new age urban planning is also the reason why large cities are losing family households and becoming places where only university students and single people want to live in. It is simply easier and more practical to raise a large family when there's a car available.

Anyway don't know if you were trolling, but I just think a lot of the anti-car movement is based on pure ideology and not practicality and more often than not, it has the very opposite effect of what was originally intended.

>>1084747
>deliveries
>by private car
Oh, get the fuck out.

Also, there is research to prove that pedestrians buy more, and more often than motorised shoppers. The busiest commerce in a city is often the old towns and cage free streets. For the big washing machines there is after hours home delivery.
And now white flight is the fault of 'muh war un muh car' too.
>cager rationalising his privilege this badly

The bike/train/bus vs car debate has gone pretty partisan at this point.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems and both have their place.
The trick is to combine the advantages of both systems:

>car
Needs roads and is usually oversiezed for its use.
If you live in a rural area and need to get groceries or tools or heavy stuff, a car is the best option since public transport requires a high density and a high demand to be efficient and gives you little cargo abilities.
>bus
They are not that great, since they are often late slow and powered by diesel engines.
But they can archive a highly dense grid with only minor infrastrucure.
They are good for old persons and students especially in the winter when biking kind of sucks.
>bike
Not good for long distance travel and dangerous in some places with limited cargo abilitys in most bikes while verry slow on the uphill if you are not that strong.
It is pretty fast in the inner city and doesn´t require that much infrastructure, it can use normal roads.
E-bikes are making weak riders much faster on the uphill nowerdays and cargo-bikes increase the ability to carry stuff like grocerys.
>train
Usually late and a not that dense network.
It is a good way to get from city to city, but you can only leave it in designated stations wich slows down the train quite a bit.

I know the list isn´t complete, but these are the most used and most available options.

>>1084764
There are things I would change to those systems to improove the ability to combine those systems:

>car
build a big parking lots near highway ramps to allow people to switch to other systems in the city and charge electric cars there.
>bus
Use electric trolley busses with a small battery (like 50km range) and let them get their power by high voltage DC cables at main streets that are used by many bus lines to reduce needed infrastrutre and ecological impact.
Focus more on urban/suburban areas and skip the rurral areas completely, public transport by bus sucks in rural areas anyways and just wastes money wich could be spend better somewhere else.
>bike
Physicly seperate bike lanes from roads and make them bike only,
allow bikes to use the road regardless.
Build highway-like bike routes with highway like intersections on much used routes, for example a 3-lane bike-highway on a bridge over a mainstreet in a city would promote bike travel verry much since you would be able to keep your speed up the entire time instead of riding in a stop&go traffic situatin and reduce danger from cagers.
>train
allow bikes on all trains without additionals fees

Change the layout of the wagons:
remove toilets on regional trains
add bikestands instead
add charging ports for E-bikes (standard plug for the country you live in)
increase train sieze during rush hour

>>1084767
I forgot to mention that the bike-highway should be somethng like the Autobahn with a fast lane on the left and a slow lane on the right.
You should always use the right lane if you are ont overtaking someone and give hand signals before you do so.
Maybe electric mopeds should be allowed as well...

>>1084759
Deliveries are made by vans, how do you expect them to reach the shops if the street has been pedestrianised?

>>1084747
>It all looks good but you're forgetting businesses on a street like that rely on deliveries both in and out.
>>1084798
Please learn how vehicle restrictions in access roads and pedestrian-friendly streets works. There's something call priority and exceptions.

>>1084798
First of all the deliveries arent made through the front door but the loading dock in the back. Second, theyll use the pedestrianised road of course. Special permit for deliveries, emergency services and maintenence, obviously. The hurr-durr we must allow single occupancy personal car travel OR MUH AMBULANCES AND DELIVERY TRUCKS continues to be the shallowest, most blatantly contrived hollow excuse to continue subsidising and enabling private cars.

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>>1084635

>>1083852
Here is one of the way I envision it.

You set up nice wide roads. Which are primarily for walkers, bikers and strictly regulated low power motorized vehicles. All of that is focused to the "common person" and kept at some sensibly low speed, ... something like 25~35 mph tops.

They also can accommodate a larger "industrial" vehicles like box truck for special purposes. These would require extensive training and licensing. The costs would incentive them to only be used when needed as some needs just can't be met with a bike and alternatives lack the flexibility that regional commerce needs. Odd over powered luxury vehicles would fall into a similar category, as I don't want to outright ban cars, but limit them to where they are most useful.

Longer range travel be done by high efficiency trains, not to be mistaken as high speed as those cool bullet trains actually have many hidden costs. And long lived low cost support roads would allow things like anything else from hikers and bikes to long range box trucks to travel if needed. Think high tech gravel roads. That would work with the railways attached in parallel. This redundancy would not cost much relativity speaking and would allow for lower rail maintenance costs and secondary emergency proposes.

High speed would be mostly the realm of airplanes, with smaller more manageable airplanes. With a few exceptions for things like trans ocean flights where scale really pays.

While these structures are slower then what people are use currently to it does things far more efficiently. And favors creating many sustainable systems with a high focus on people scaled events. And believe it or not it is still fast enough to support many of our modern perks.

I expect to see many over lapping mid size city-state structure to spawn from this creating a rich and dynamic way of life that is more reponsive to the needs of people.

>>1084635
That must be so harsh. Black as the night sun tans for all.

often hear people on this board saying non-car transport in burgerland is for the poor and crazy, why it is seen as undesirable. Surely many on this board are poor and crazy, but the effect of being a well-kempt and peaceful person on a bus shouldn't be understated.

Most of us have no political sway, are not in charge of urban planning. Getting around by foot/bike/bus stands out; it's one of the few ways we actually can make a tangible positive change where we live. 100 people in cars, 1 person on sidewalk vs. 99 people in cars and 2 on the sidewalk.

>>1084811
Where's this?

>>1084850
Seems like Hong Kong Island, Aberdeen to be exact.

>>1084851
Thank you

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>>1084288

that's La Plata m8. It's 30 miles away from Buenos Aires City, which is a fucking mess.

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>>1084747

>>1084811
>>1084850
>>1084851
>>1084853
Ap Lei Chau. Second island in population density after Santa Cruz del Islote.

>>1084821
>High speed would be mostly the realm of airplanes, with smaller more manageable airplanes. With a few exceptions for things like trans ocean flights where scale really pays.
The size of the plane (along with the frequency of service) should depend on commercial considerations, like how many people want to take that particular route and how long the route. It'd be silly to use a large plane on a route that isn't popular, and it'd be silly to use a small plane on a route that gets a lot of travelers.

So what is a sensible route? Easy. Compare with time taken by surface transit. Converting an 8 hour journey into a 1 hour one is a no-brainer (common where the alternative involves going around or over the sea or a major lake). Shaving 40 minutes off to make a 1 hour one is much less valuable (such as when the fastest alternative is HSR). The best choice will vary from place to place too, and depend on overall journey (e.g., a multi-hop long-distance flight might include some short legs at either end, but replacing those with other transit solutions might make not much sense).

>>1083884
Total traffic will increase. As mentioned in other posts, innovation in transit would enable more people to travel to popular areas. Autonomous cars would reduce driver caused traffic, however the convenience of using autonomous vehicles would increase total traffic and would eventually require increased road capacity. Mass transit, BRT, autonomous cars, trains, or anything else like that will not solve issues of congestion. Congestion is an issue of inefficient land use. Simply put, too many people need to commute from far away to get to job centers, school, shopping etc...

>>1083883
you mean the refugee isles

>>1084652
>>1084651
You make some good points. Fortunately I don't see this happening in America.

I believe in freedom of religion as long as it doesn't bug anyone else. Muslims should not be banned, because that is immoral, but communities should comply with the law.

>>1084767
>remove toilets on regional trains

That's a shitty idea

>>1084821
Biofuel planes so we can still have NY and Venice by 2100, hopefully.

>>1084955
There is one in every wagon on the RB trains and pretty much nobody uses them.
I don´t mean RE or IC trains.

>>1084916
While that is true to an extent, the supporting industry needed to maintain such a variety of planes is huge, like mind boggling massive. Arguably our current air transit diversity is propped up by secondary military spending in defense systems and would not exist without it, although I will admit it is a that is a complex debate.

We have seen huge savings in using a limit number of plane types. Southwest was basically founded on that, as fleet maintenance is a large consideration and can even over take the high energy cost, mostly because the maintenance is actually high energy as well given what goes into part production and other things.

>>1084956
Most of that R&D was done is a flashy Navy project few years back. They showed a F-18 run a 50% biofuel blend of camelina grown in the US. While the results were real, the feasibility was terrible given the realistic fuel production rate. Sure it proved our military aircraft could run fairly green without foreign aid, as this was mostly a show of independence. But when you stop and look at fueling the just the whole fleet things get silly as the fuel maybe green but limits in fuel producing mean it will be priced into different bracket. So any flight becomes very expensive, as it really is expensive we just don't pay for all of it thank to cheap oil and poor market structures. But there are a number of cases were we are willing to pay that high price for speed, and so while dramatical reduced it still has a place in the future.

step 1: make bigger bike lanes and more lanes for cars

step 2: ban all people from the city that run over cyclists

step 3: have biodegradable napkin dispensers on bike lanes as frequently as regular trash cans

step 4: never mention step 4

>>1084956
biofuel won't cut co2 emission by a lot...
>>1085000
Most of those saving you have mentioned are actually from things like human and manufacturing cost so cutting them won't help much on social and environmental aspects. And LCC did that already

>>1084956
fuel is the past, electric planes are the future

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>>1085125
>manufacturing cost
How is it so many people fail to understand how F***ing expensive (excuse my language but there is a lack of words to use here) manufacturing costs really are.

Pic is a bauxite from space, I know it doesn't seem that big now that Google maps can pick out a car, but trust me this is just one of many global sites as just one of many steps needed to make your simple soda can. You want to stop and think of how big the supporting infrastructure is for a modern jet engine? Let me put it this way, part of the Internet goes just to coordinating this massive undertaking and arguably could not be done in a timely fashion without it.

>humans
there very expensive to start with, and that is before specialized training. The airforce has policy to let fighter jets crash before injury to the pilot. Not because they care about people, but because the years for training that goes into them is worth several time more then the super expensive jet they fly.

That is why LCC airlines are going this way, it really cuts costs.

>>1085130
Do not get me started on batteries. They have their place s they can be miniaturized well, but Diesel actually give much better returns then most and can be made in a robust distributed carbon neutral manner, although not at scale to replace our current system as very little could now.

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>>1085163
>F***ing
>***
>excuse my language [...]
Fuck off.

>>1085163
Diesel is the worst, especialy in urban areas.
NOx and fine dust emissions of diesel engines are the most cancerous of all...

>>1085187
I thought because diesel emissions are typically larger they are more likely to settle on the ground and not be as toxic as it would be if you inhaled petrol exhaust fumes

>>1085190
Nope, the fine dust doesn´t simply drop to the ground and neither does NOx...

>>1085130
Please learn the role of electric planes if you think it's the future.

>>1085192
The only reason for the fine dust is because of particulate filters

Diesel without the filters is fine

>>1085217
>Diesel without the filters is fine
It is even worse without filters...

>>1085192
This what I must have been thinking of then.


>SOAs are tiny particles that are formed in air and make up typically 40 percent to 60 percent of the aerosol mass in urban environments.
>"The contribution of diesel to SOA is almost negligible," Bahreini said.
>That leaves gasoline contributing the other 80 percent or more of the SOA, Bahreini said

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120302193928.htm

>>1085220
Worse as in more smog yes, more PM2.5, no.

>>1085221
>SOA
They are still far worse in NOx and fine dust, wich are cancerous.
>>1085222
>PM2.5
Only if you are that specific about a special group of fine dust maybe, but the total fine dust is worse.


Long stroke naturaly aspirated gas/ethanol engines with medium compression and multipoint injection and catalythic converter are better than diesels.

>>1085163
I mean,those expensive manufacturing and human resource cost are afterall the money that the society need to spend one way or other, spending them in makong different airplanes doesn't seems to affect the grand scheme of thing too much.
>>1084821
How about time cost?

Are there actually any planners or transportation engineers, or anything related on here?

>>1085262
I'm close to being one! Right now I'm a transit planning intern who will be going to grad school for urban planning in the fall.

>>1085264
Nice! I am also a transit planning intern. Just graduated with a bachelors in planning and planning on getting a masters in Transportation engineering. What school are you planning on going to?

>>1085187
>>1085190
>>1085192
>>1085217
>>1085220
>>1085221
>>1085222
>>1085223
There are 3 major pollutant issues here

NOx, typical Diesel does make significantly more of this. These react with UV light to quickly breakdown into Ozone. Ozone is nasty stuff on ground level, but at higher altitudes it either gets wrapped up in our Ozone layer or fully reacts before reaching the ground level. So if used in airplanes exposed to sunlight it is not a big deal.

Assorted radical chemicals, these can be largely eliminated in refinement. Diesel is often not refine to be nearly as pure like gasoline. If we leave radical chemicals in it to start we get them out later when it burns. Petrol based diesel has a lot of these, others sources not so much. This is largely a back end issue we could easily solve.

Soot, is a surprisingly poorly understood issue as researchers still debate its very definition. The bad black stuff that comes from combustion seems to be one of many. From my understanding there are two major parts that need to be addressed.
1. The radical chemicals, in which the black carbon body is mostly just a carrier. In that case better refinement would make harmless soot. (sounds silly but it could be true) 2. The complex carbon nanoparticles are bad, as certain nano structures are dangerous regardless of elemental chemistry. There is growing evidence that certain nano carbon rods are bad. However most descriptions of diesel soot are egg shaped, given how much geometry matters here more research is needed. This is important as the living things can easily handle most forms of carbon.

So really it is a question of how damaging are the carbon nano particles created by Diesel, and if they are harmful how could we manage then. (obviously we could burn them, but the overall impact to system needs study, as starting fires to clean up fires has obviously efficacy issues)

But from energy density stand point Diesel ranks very high, which is good

>>1085246
>need to spend
>money

Not to be rude, but this framing is part of the deeper problem. Even in its own context we could spend it on having better lives, or on the future as investment.
But the problem with such discussion is the word "better" is very subjective, and to take a very Keynesian stance we are all dead in the future.

Really any system will need skilled people and things to be built. But I doubt we would consider all systems equal.

Like time cost. Sure many things would move slower in my proposed setup, compared to now. One could argue, like I do, that all that walking and biking would lower health care costs among many other things that offset the "lost" time. As shoes and bikes cost far less then cars, so those resources would be freed up for other things. Which could including not being used at all, as that option has interesting effects. Smaller overlapping city structures would shorting the typical required travel distance and create robust redundancy.

But really all of this is so connected it hard to talk about just the transportation system. As one persons robust redundancy is another persons wasted dupilcation.

>>1085262
I'm a mechanical engineer who reads transit and urbanism blogs while I'm at work if that counts

>>1085298
>Invest in improving lives or changing the future
Nah, we are not in a world as cooperative as this. Grab whatever money you can get and use that to improve personal life would be more effective.
>Lowering healthcare cost compared to time cost
Do you think many people willing tp do thos exchange? Those do want would have already done so.
>Resources can be allocated elsewhere or get freed up
Mostly for personal enjoyment at best

>>1085266
I will be going to Minnesota which is also where I got my bachelors. I majored in Geography and Urban Studies (minor in GIS).
Do you have an engineering background in undergrad? I thought about doing a dual degree with a Masters in Civil Engineering but I didn't want to spend the time to have a science background.

One of the engineers where I work got his bachelors in Geography and then 7 years later got his masters in civil engineering from Wisconsin Madison. I've always wondered how he did that transition but I haven't asked yet.

>>1085223
PM2.5 is fine dust, particles larger don't get into the bloodstream

>>1085354
I started in Civil Engineering, but it was structural, so not really. Around here, southern California, most transportation firms want planners that can do engineering work. So I think it would be useful for me. Now I just have to find the right program for me.

>>1085223
>Long stroke naturaly aspirated gas/ethanol engines with medium compression and multipoint injection and catalythic converter are better than diesels.


Apparently not, unless this is propaganda.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/29/gas-cars-much-dirtier-expected/
>The laboratory studied the emissions of 7 gas engine vehicles equipped with direct-fuel-injection systems. The research found that they emit from 10 to 100 times more particulates than modern diesel engines. In fact, they have higher particulate emissions than older diesel without particulate filters.

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>>1085515
That is why I wrote multipoint instead of dirct injection.

>>1085497
My boss has majored in Civil Engineering. I've always been told a civil engineer can get into planning but a planner can't get into engineering.

There's a few people at work who have their bachelors in civil engineering and their masters in planning. They're pretty useful because they go back and forth between engineering and planning depending on our projects and work load.

>>1085597
My general impression is that civil engineers are desperate for the jobs that come with managing whatever they build.

I mean, nothing wrong with that, if there are no specialized people for that job.

>>1084821
Gravel roads? Really?

>>1085266
>>1085264
do you work for your local transit agency or somewhere else? how did you get your jobs? what do transit planners do?

>>1084090

Word.

Has also happened in Silicon Valley.
I'm mov
Ing.

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comfy towns are naturally grown over centuries

>>1085764

Most of that development besides the churches was built in the late 1980's.

The churches were probably built in the early 1950's.

That oldest bricks in that town are 70 years old at best.

>>1085749
I work for an MPO (Metropolitan Planning Organization) doing research and analysis. I would say my job is a bit different than a typical transit planner for a local agency. I literally do GIS analysis and database management all day. I got the job through presenting a project at an event and someone taking an interest. As well as partly through recommendation.

I actually just got hired by a fairly reputable transportation consulting firm so I will likely be leaving the MPO in a couple of weeks. At this new place i will help with GIS, TDM, and 3D modeling and graphics. They tend to do a lot of active transportation work.

Also today, i was recommended for a GIS analyst position at an environmental planning firm. Unfortunately I had to turn this down.

The planning world is fairly small. Network and get to know people. A lot of good planning jobs, at least around here, tend to get passed on through word of mouth.

>>1085764
Few european towns are older than 1945

>>1084516
tokyo is much more high dense than london

>>1084652
I'm looking at Paris, you're looking at faux news.

>>1084747
>the average person's total shopping weights more than 5kg
If you shop once a month in a remote supermarket only accessible by car, maybe. And I suspect this average still include the weight of the car.
If you have a (cheap) convenience store down the street, you don't buy 5kg daily on average.

Also these pedestrian street have access to delivery trucks at times when there are less pedestrians (early morning).

>>1084767
>add charging ports for E-bikes (standard plug for the country you live in)
>Lithium-ion battery explodes due to currant being too high and charger being crap.

>>1084798
>how do you expect them to reach the shops if the street has been pedestrianised

>Open gate with delivery driver badge
>Drive through gate
>Gate closes automatically
>Drive on pedestrian road
>Profit, literally
That was tricky.

>>1084621
Alex Jones taught me that Élysée Palace has been owned by ISIS since Obama was inagurated and anyone saying otherwise is part of the coverup

>>1085816
>Lithium-ion battery explodes due to currant being too high and charger being crap.
That meme has to die.
Maximum Li-Ion do is blow off some electrolyte:
https://youtu.be/e4-eLOqzDg0?t=1m26s

>>1085764
>cramped, noisy streets
>no breathing room
>look out your window, see into someone else's window across the narrow street
>'backyards' are visible from dozens of other apartments, no privacy
>all apartments or attached houses
>open your windows and let in that city noise and car exhaust!
>comfy

Even worse than sterile North American suburbs.

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>>1085877
Time for Kornhill

again

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>>1085882

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this is literally perfect

>>1085771
>GIS, TDM, and 3D modeling and graphics.
What did you major in to be knowledgeable of all these things?

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>>1085903
(You)

>>1085921
I just graduated with a b.s. degree in urban planning.

>>1085846
High maximum discharge current/low capacity gas off (when shorted)
Low discharge current/high capacity blow off violently some time after being shorted.

They don't react the same when burning due to external heat or when made to blow up electrochemically. It's not regular explosives.

That why phones explode, and electronic cigarettes that do belong to idiots who thought they could do with a cheaper Chinese battery and/or shorted the battery by carrying one without a case in a pocket with change or keys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbnjEt8msjI&t=3m20s (over charging a small 12V one. The problem in trains would be over-charging, not using a torch against one.)

>>1085906
Not a place to be old and having trouble climbing stairs

>>1085772
What part of Europe are you talking about?

Practically any town in my vicinity is from before 1945.
Leading to massive opposition to the merger of municipalities in the 20th century, since the towns that were merged into larger cities had nothing to do with that city before that, despite being relatively close to each other.

Seriously, if anyone of you ever comes into the position of deciding on if a municipality merger is the way to go, you absolutely have to look at if the tows or cities are even related, and if the citizens and their culture are similar.
Otherwise you make a grave mistake.

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>>1085903
>>1084504

>>1085882
(Pic)

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>>1086134

>>1085877
Build tall, build dense or build wide.
Hint: The 3rd one is the worst.

>>1085764
Lübeck actually is extremely comfy from a tourist's point of view.
Keep in mind that it's just the historic city center on that pic. The city has more than 200 000 inhabitants.

>>1086136
Third one has the best living conditions. I would never live in a city again. It's horrible.

>>1086189
> best living conditions in the house?
I said build wide not build spaced.
One is suburban sprawl, one is what density a human should expect in livable rural and suburban settlements outside of towns (and maybe villages).
You just lived in horrible cities.

>>1084635
What happened to this poor island? I feel for the remaining huts

>>1084142
super comfy

i want this in the netherlands

>>1085938
why are japanese buildings so thin/small? high rises tend to be wide and tall but japanese ones are thin and tall.

>>1086213
Everything's fucked

>>1086242
It's in the name of space efficiency. Less wasted space when you have smaller buildings packed together.

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>>1086242
As far as I know, Japanese have very strict building code ruled by zoning, so they use it as efficiently as possible. They have limits on buildings width and height, so they make these mini "high-rise" style buildings.
Personally I think it looks much better than huge blocks of glass or concrete, like most of the big high-rise buildings.

>>1086242
Personal hypothesis: they just acquired one house to construct a building there instead everytime, instead of collect & develop?

>>1085262
I'm studying urban planning but at a community college so what I learn doesn't go much beyond AutoCAD, ArcGIS and planning law in my province. I have the option of adding on two years of education at Ryerson University in Toronto and get a bachelor of urban planning which I considered since the beginning but I'm not sure if it's worth it

>>1086256
>Japanese have very strict building code ruled by zoning

How is that particularly Japanese? Isn't that how it usually is?

>>1085823
>passive aggressive "witty" humour with a liberal agenda

Yup, sure smells like Reddit

>>1086470
http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

This is a great read, highly recommend everything else on his blog too

>>1085354
What kind of jobs can you get with that education.

Here in the Netherlands urban planners can work at the government or building associations. Some work for consultancy agencies or property developers.

>>1086528

You seem to know a lot about this Reddit place.

>>1086711
Everyone knows their enemy

>>1084600
Fuck then I'll show some portuguese (non existing) urban planning.

>>1085262
I worked a summer in my cities transportation policy and planning division working on cycling policy(!), but I haven't been able to get a full time job with the city after graduating unfortunately

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>>1084600
There's not much to say. The newly built areas of the city are cager-oriented hells.
Been there once while looking for a flat, and swiftly returned to being an urbanite, where I have access to frequent trams, metro close by, the whole city within reach of a hand. I live in Prague currently.
Another thing, most of the cities in Europe have to adapt to centuries of urban planning (or lack of thereof), so they are much different than US-style grids.
The city itself is pedestrian oriented, it's easy to get from place to place, the tram grid is really dense. Metro serves as a high speed transport between the further areas of Prague. Buses are used mostly away from the centre, where there are no tram tracks, or where the area doesn't warrant high ridership.
Since the city is already well developed, there are not many major changes to the urban planning, or they are happening few (tens) kilometres away from the city centre and are mostly cager oriented. Probably the biggest thing coming up, is the new metro line, D.
The construction of the Line D should start in 2018 and end by 2023. The line is planned to be driverless.

>>1086539
Well, going by that article, it's not stricter, it's merely different.

>>1085266
>>1085497
>>1085597
>>1085771
>>1085964
>>1086395
What are you supposed to do if your school doesn't offer an urban planning major and just has a meme "Urban Studies" or Geography degree? What sort of soft and technical skills do I need to supplement my major? Most important software?
Do you build a portfolio of your work? Do you create a personal website like I see some of the GIS majors at my school do?

If I major in urban studies I don't want to work for some community arts nonprofit or get paid 30k for some local neighborhood organisation which seems to be the career path of many of those graduates.
>>1087045
What did you major in? How's the job search or career prospects?

>>1087165
>What are you supposed to do if your school doesn't offer an urban planning major

I'm not in civil engineering, but I'd change college, if my school didn't offer what I want to study.

>>1087057
prague is awesome. I learned the city by lurking the webcam on the service tram for months when I was unemployed. the tram service is incredible, plus there's a subway and bike lanes everywhere that nobody uses since the tram goes everywhere.
http://slowtv.playtvak.cz/prave-ted-mazaci-tramvaj-jede-prahou-d73-/mazaci-tramvaj.aspx?c=A150908_111659_mazaci-tramvaj_plap

>>1087299
>bike lanes everywhere that nobody uses since the tram goes everywhere
I'm not even a Czech, but I suggest it's because Praha is kinda hilly and steep so nobody bikes because of that.

>>1087165
>>1087168
In the united States, its common for most planners to have a masters degree. In fact a lot of schools do not have undergrad planning programs even though they have have masters programs. Someone I work with at my local MPO got his undergrad in geography with a focus on planning related classes and seems to be doing fine. He is intending to go to a planning masters program in a couple of years. However there are exceptions to all this. Some programs like the one i went to have a good reputation in their undergrad program and can compete with masters students. If you consider switching schools, just make sure the planning program is accredited by the Planning Accreditation Board.

That all being said, a lot of planners come from different backgrounds before pursuing their masters in planning and it just depends on what you want to do. if you want to focus on urban design, i would switch to something like landscape architecture (they also use GIS). if you want to focus on transportation or something with heavy GIS, go for civil engineering with an emphasis on transportation or geography. if you just want to work as a local planner for a city then maybe urban studies or any of these would be fine.

the ads for planning jobs always list the type of majors that could provide the knowledge necessary. they usually list the majors listed above. It all depends on what you want to focus on. just make sure that where you intern should reflect what you want to do.

technical skills depend on your area of focus. In general I would say autocad, sketchup adobe suite, GIS, microsoft suite.

I always make portfolios, just do it. for good examples for layouts and style check out architecture student portfolios.

website would be good to have when you are networking and have it on a business card. i wouldn't worry about this too much. at least not until you are a junior or senior.

>>1087168
I'm kind of limited to my metro of 3 million and none of them have a bachelors of plannning. There is one accredited masters program and then an unacredited program from a city that offers remote classes somewhere in my metro area.
There are only 16 undergraduate planning programs in the U.S. so it's difficult to find one in my area.
>>1087516
Thanks for the response.

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>>1087493
that, too. it is very hilly.

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>>1087299
>>1087493
Sure, bikes are not as popular, due to public transport, but people who like biking, have many opportunities to enjoy them in places like parks (there's shitload of them), streets that do not see much car traffic, or away from the busiest parts of the city.
It's possible to take a bike onto the public transport (PID/PIT - Prague Integrated Transport).
The thing includes:
Metro, free of charge;
Suburban trains, free of charge (zones P, 0, B), with ticket (zones 1–7), capacity depending on train: basic, extended, or even dedicated bicycle cars on non-working days during the season (line S88);
Trams, only on selected sections, outside of core hours on working days, on direction away from the centre, free of charge (if I'm not mistaken, all these directions go uphill);
Busses, no bikes; exceptions: line 147 during season (April-October), line AE (Airport Express) only bikes prepared for air transport, both free of charge;
Cyklobus, dedicated bike bus, only during season, 16 CZK ($0.70), pic related;
Funicular & Ferries, free of charge.
Full map for bike transport in Prague: https://ropid.cz/wp-content/uploads/mapy/schemata-trvala/a5_cyklo_doprava.pdf
It's possible to transport a folding bike, as if it was luggage, 16 CZK ($0.70).
I have seen some people biking behind trams, too.
PID also offers B+R (Bike+Ride), besides P+R (Park+Ride), so people can leave their bikes near metro and suburban train stations, free of charge (there's also something about locking for 20 CZK/$0.87, but I don't exactly understand how it works).

The governing bodies of Prague actively work on promoting biking. They plan on having 5~7% of total PAX in Prague travelling by bikes during summer, 2~3% during winter by 2020, as part of some national programme.

>>1087592
that is excellent news.

in the US, Atlanta's MARTA is considered second-rate, at best. Like a lot of systems here, the buses have bike carriers on the front, which is cool, but I was surprised to find that bikes are allowed on all the trains, too. Unfortunately not with the special hangers like your pic, but it's still pretty bad-assed. apparently, MARTA is one of the few systems (or only?) in the US that allows bikes on the trains. And it has nothing to do with this current bike-boom we're having, I got here 15 years ago and it was already a thing.
It's a transit game-changer, for sure.

>>1085262
I'm currently 3rd year in my undergrad planning degree. I'll be undertaking an internship at an urban renewal state government organisation within a few weeks.

>>1086584
I'd like to be involved in transportation planning. Working for a local government agency (city/county/state/MPO) or a engineering/planning consulting firm.

With just an Urban Studies degree I've had classmates get into planning for local municipalities. The nightmare would be a community organizer for a local neighborhood organization due to the organization small staff size and salary. I've also had Urban Studies classmates who working for real estate developers or community arts organizations.

Geography can be very broad. GIS can be a big proportion which can be government work or private consulting or even business analyst stuff if you working for a large organization with many locations or a utility company.

http://www.vtpi.org/tranben.pdf

This answers so many questions. Focused on bus usage, but has info about most modes.

>>1087610
MBTA allows bikes on commuter trains, but only off peak, and there isn't anywhere to lock them up.

Not sure about the subway.

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>>1087991
>>1087610
Commuter trains and light rail trains in Minnesota have bike racks. No really strict limitations on when you can bring bikes aboard but I think they don't really let you have a sports game and the trains are full.

>>1087911
>internship at a government organization

Have fun garnering no useful work experience

>>1088005
Why do you say that? Where should aspiring urban planners work if it's not government?

>>108806

Consulting firms do all the "good" planning work. Most agencies do not have the expertise or staff to handle the larger planning projects so they outsource to the private sector. Private sector tends to have a lot of talent because its competitive and overall fast paced. you are forced to either be good at what you do or get fired.

>>1083884
We might get a small increase in traffic for the fact that at the beginning it will be a mix of self driving and standard cars which I'm sure will lead to a "few" problems and I doubt we'll see self driving cars become the majority on the road since look at electric cars that have been arguable around for 10-20 years now (yes I know they where around when the model T was introduced, I'm talking when intrest for them wen't through a small revival)

Plus there is that one theory, I'm forgetting what its called but its basically been used as such
>Adding more lanes for traffic only encourages people to drive thus increasing congestion

>>1084028
we used to love them but then we stopped caring.
Somewhat reliant video:
https://youtu.be/eDbNGMIosVU

>>1087998
Kinda annoying that when the green/central line opened and they bough new trains, they decreased the bike racks from 4 to 2 slots per train car

>>1088005
Hardly, gov departments actually let you build a diverse experience, both in policy and DA.

The private sector tends to shaft interns to whatever is most cost effective. Not to mention a well known gov department is going to look a lot better on a Resume then what could be a no name planning firm.

Of course it depends on where you go, but public work experience certainly holds weight.

>>1088113
I think they had to do that because wheel chairs/motorized scooters were have trouble fitting in the space where one of the slots was. Disappointing two per section works on the old trains and not on the new especially when I try to take the Green Line to Saint Paul from West Bank and there are too many bikes.
>>1088101
Induced demand.
My state has finally realized that adding a lane that just fills up in five years is an unsustainable way to invest in infrastructure. Unfortunately they think Lexus Lanes are the way of the future.

>>1088136
DA?
What do you mean most cost effective?
>>1088096
Alternatively you are hired to work on all these projects for small cities who contract out their work because they do not have planning departments.
All the small communities that have no idea how to do a comprehensive plan update or no expertise on how to improve their transit system for 50k people.

>>1088144
Development Assesment, where you assess development applications. A useful skill for both statutory planners and planning consultants. I'm in Australia so im not sure if its the same in other countries.

Like the poster said, the private sector is competitive. So their focus will be to put you where you get them the most gain. But really I guess it depends on the firm and their arrangement with your school as to how your internship would go.

>>1083952
>>1084610
Sup Seattle bros
Fremont here
Sdot/Metro/St really needs to expand exclusive ROW for transit and get serious about enforcing current lanes

>>1087165
>What did you major in? How's the job search or career prospects?

I actually majored in business. They basically took me because I was the only candidate with some statistical programming and gis experience, that could also hold a normal human conversation about cycling at public consultations.

I work as an analyst at a mid size company but I do want to get back into something more /n/ related. I might go back to school but idk

>What are you supposed to do if your school doesn't offer an urban planning major

from my (limited) experience, all the actual planners in my city had masters degrees in planning, and had various undergrads tangentially geography related.

On the policy side, there was a pretty wide range of backgrounds, from MA in public policy to MSc in enviro sci

A lot of the other analysts came from civil eng, and then some technical people from software eng, compsci, math/stats

>What sort of soft and technical skills do I need to supplement my major? Most important software?

GIS, but also general database and data manipulation is helpful and I've gotten other jobs off the back of that. Knowing VBA, Access, SQL, R and Python and general computing/statistical concepts seemed to help me

>Do you build a portfolio of your work? Do you create a personal website like I see some of the GIS majors at my school do?

I have a website that I post some projects I do in my spare time (both /n/ and business related, sometimes both). Mostly mapping/visualizations, statistical/financial analysis, and some general blogging. It helped during recruiting being able to show some of the stuff that I claimed I could do since I didn't have too much on the job experience with it

Honestly I found a good piece of advice is to find people in roles you'd like to do some day, look at what their educational/work path was and help use that to make your decision. Also people don't really mind if you hit them up on linkedin or just email them for advice

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>>1088250
>They basically took me because I was the only candidate with some statistical programming and gis experience, that could also hold a normal human conversation about cycling at public consultations.
> all those people that couldn't also hold a normal human conversation about cycling at public consultations.
Sounds like you were up against a lot of people from /n/
muh cagers REEEEEE

Anybody have that good talk that explains good city and suburban planning and how some houses are just depressing by nature?

>>1088162
>depends on the firm and their arrangement with your school as to how your internship would go
How closely do employers and schools work together for internships in Australia?

From my experience in the U.S. most internships are entirely sought out by students individually and the organisation will do what ever with you. The only connection is if you are not getting paid then you need to receive academic credit and the school must approve that. I've heard in rare cases of unemployable majors getting more help with internships.

>>1084767
Toilets are holy for the commuter, leave them there. Just get on with the larger trains with vertical bike storage possibilities, so you can have the best of both. Then let some tard be on the train as a community working programme cleaning up the trains and working by filling and looking after a small vending(machine or window, depending on your tard/train ratio) for profit

>>1088658
I'm not sure if other unis are the same. I think we're pretty lucky that the work placement is a mandatory part of our degree, so our program director organises the arrangement based on our preferences for us.

The employers are fairly happy with it since most of them have all gone through the same process during their education.

Only downside is that it has to be unpaid since it replaces your courses for the semester.

>>1088910
Sounds nice. I would have liked actual work experience rather than 4 years of sometimes only tangentially related theory to what I want to work on.

Is the program large or in a big city? I imagine it could be difficult placing too many students.

>>1088174
We'll finally have a real BRT line when Madison BRT (RapidRide G) opens up. For me, once North Link opens I don't even give a shit about what happens anywhere else anymore.

What Metro can do is add a surcharge for cash payment on buses (or ban it completely) to cut down dwell time. There's no reason not to have an Orca card in current year. Also, removing paper transfers because you just know 2/3 of people using them keep a little folder of them and check Twitter for what color/letter that day's transfer is to cheat the fare
The worst part is that even when the driver rightfully calls out a fare cheat for not having a valid transfer, they can't kick the freeloading scumbag off the bus. At least on Link the transit police come every so often to discourage fare evasion and other antisocial behavior

Do you guys read Seattle Transit Blog or what

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>>1084142
beautiful. I'd love to see stuff like this in Canada.

>>1089195
did they let a drunken council member from the north of england design this cluster fuck?

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>>1084767
>journey time of 30 minutes to 3 hours
>no toilets

>>1084082
except for those atrociously ugly buildings

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>>1083852
remember when New York used to be aesthetic ?

before a certain type of building spread like cancer and ruined everything...

>>1089458
>highrises are cancer
Are you 11 or something?

>>1083856
the city's atmosphere is happiness, anon. it's so chill and aesthetic and atmospheric. it's alive, energetic, optimistic, and very fun. it doesn't require you to be born and raised there to actually have fun, everyone is from somewhere. it's nice being surrounded by noisy crowds while knowing no one and knowing that everyone wasn't born there. literally the only western city i would live in.

the only answer for this thread is minarchism.

>>1089458
the proportions are really throwing me for a loop here

>>1089458
Good thing we knocked down most of those tenements then.

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>>1089732
It really is amazing how much cities can grow through landfill.

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>>1089823

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>>1089824
And Manhattan isn't even that extreme an example

>>1089686
Sorry m8, ~6 story dense mixed use attached buildings are the peak of urban form and function
Especially if they are in the European style with a courtyard in the back

High rises are modernist trash
A uniform height limit excluding church steeples etc keeps light in cities without having to rely on ugly setbacks and gives a sacred skyline

>>1089824
I always thought it would have been cool if they kept the broadstreer canal and all the other ones and built them like old Amsterdams canals

Same goes for GOWANUS canal
I wosh I was a billionaire developer because I would love to clean it up and develop it like the Dutch canals

>>1089824
Battery Park supposedly named after where the battery of cannon were placed to defend the island in the Revolutionary War--the land it's on didn't even exist then

>>1089843
> "A uniform height limit excluding church steeples etc keeps light in cities without having to rely on ugly setbacks and gives a sacred skyline"
Sorry m8, the non-uniform height limit and setbacks you had are trash and you never thought of building on podiums, developing proper corase-grained complexes or fine-grained superblocks.
And who says high-rise can't be mixed-use?

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>>1089828

>>1089843
Is 6 stories really the best or is just because that's about how tall you can build with sticks before you need to pour concrete when costs go up?

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What's the general opinion on skyway systems. Minneapolis has quit a large network, covers around 69 full city blocks over about 9 miles with some odd shops scared in the system

>>1084516
with a bullet through your fucking head, cancer.

>>1084523
This.

>>1089828
>East Boston used to be an island
well now

>>1090074
No one cares unless you don't have street life to begin with. It kills the street activity if designed around such, leaving ground level to unwalkable car-oriented layouts..

>>1090268
But there are cities in the world where it gets unbearably cold during the winter so they're a blessing. In Toronto we have the PATH system which is underground and it hasn't killed life at street level at all. Besides, most buildings lock their doors during the weekend so you can't even use it if you wanted to after work hours

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>>1090273
>>1090268
>>1090074
Cities and downtowns should have enough surface parking where you don't need to walk much to get to your destination. Surface parking also makes building skyways pretty difficult.

>>1090299
what are you doing here? fuck off

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>>1090074
Minneapolis is small time.

>>1090299
lol I study in Hamilton and I'm in the downtown area very often and let me tell you most of those surface lots are barely utilized yet there are so fucking many of them. I would love to see some infill development happen and some has but it's been so far very dissatisfactory, and looking at census data we see that the census tracts in the downtown core have actually had a net loss between 2011 and 2016 and that most of Hamilton's growth is happening in the suburban areas, despite Hamiltonians boasting about some sort of "renaissance" happening in downtown

There's just no saving North American cities, all we can do is shit on the generation before us for making the cager lifestyle the default

>>1090342
how many miles is the plus 15 again, I thought they where around the same total length.

>>1090268
that's the main argument against them here, can't say if its true or not cause I don't really follow Minneapolis politics, it seems a bit to stupid even for the state (case and point the recent renaming of one of the lakes)

>>1090299
Are you fucking kidding me? What in the hell is the matter with you people?

>>1090299
listen you son of a bitch, I don't know what you're doing in this thread let alone this board, but if you know what's good for you, you'd better leave and never come back.

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>>1090420
>>1090418
>>1090318
Look, there's a reason people are fleeing your rust belt or East/West coastie cities and moving to the South. Better lifestyle, less (or no) zoning, cheaper housing, more jobs, more convenient and reliable transportation.

Picture related is a picture of successful city planning, It Just Works™.

>>1089456
>3hours in a RB train
That is where you are doing it wrong, you should take the RB train to the next RE stop only...

>>1090299
7/10

>>1089843
So that you don't need to install elevator?

>>1084516
Learn the beauty of mass transit infrastructure and the beauty of modern, massive, elegant publuc transportation vehicles

>>1090449
Where can you build a multi storey building now a days that doesn't have an elevator for disabled people?

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>>1090434
Anon, we are talking about urban and city, not desolated deserts.
Even this attached picture would be closer toa "city" than your post-apocalyptic wasteland

>>1090451
China allow that for up to 6 Floor.
I think that is also allowed in Japan.
Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore seems to be same.

>>1090459
Those are old buildings only.

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have you guys read anything about the REM project in Montreal, Canada? its a pretty garbage and cat-bus addressed most of the problems thoroughly in a 100 page brief. Heres my response to it, a comprehensive transit network that could probably be built with only double the money that is being spent on REM. this would put montreal's transit on the world stage with european and asian cities.

It calls for 58 new commuter rail stations and the creation of 4 new lines- all along existing rail right of ways.

Revamping the regional rail system would entail the purchasing of lots of new rolling stock (preferably the new bombardier units that can use diesel and overhead wires to allow incremental electrification) and also double tracking according to traffic. Minimum 1 hour headways on all lines all day and 15 minute headways at rush hour on the busiest lines.

In addition, the metro would be expanded with 15km of new tunnels and 11 new stations, with 8 new stations for the blue line turning it to a true east-west crosstown line like the green. The orange line would be extended 2 stations to connect with bois franc on the deux montagnes line and the yellow line 1 station to vieux-longueuil to study the feasibility of more tunneling.

Also theres a people mover similar to AirTrain connected to the Vaudreuil-Hudson lines Dorval station which carries passengers to the Pierre Elliot Trudeau Intl' Airport.

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What the f happened to urban planning in this area?

>>1090492
Hills? That looks like some parts are too steep to build.

>>1090503
Right, it do seems hilly there.

>>1090492
Hey hello fellow HKer it's hot here.
Pro-tip: USE the terrain layer.
Also look at Sau Mau Ping a la Kwun Tong / East Kowloon Mid-levels. Tsz Wan Shan has more gradual slopes.
What makes you ask this? Travelling, living or surfing on map?
>>1090503
Connecting contours with stairs is unplesant and expensive elevators/escalators are seldom justified in suburbs.
I do think this Sakuragoka can connect to the little commercial zone in Chuzan down below better, You can see that wangling path to Prefecture Route 210 and a narrow street to Chuzan-danchi Entrance intersection. Other than that the two districts at the base aren't attractive.

>>1090522
>>1090504
It's straight up building on the plateau on top of a 100m hill. You can see the major entrance is to Prefecture Route 35 up north, traversing the contour up top.

>>1090522
>>1090523
> "上ノ原台地"
Indeed original name of place reflects the terrain.

>live in Asia for three years
>come back
>absolutely hate the fucking Urban Sprawl

Who thought this shit was a good idea?

>>1090459
Nobody cares about ching chong countries

>>1090522
>>1090523
I see, thanks for answers.
Was just randomly navigating around.

>>1090562
>Who thought this shit was a good idea?
cagers

>>1084504
I find densely populated urban areas with gorillion meters high buildings on all sides to be pretty aesthetic from the pedestrian perspective desu

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>>1090789

nothing cooler than an artificial mountain skyline imho

>>1090434

The South is an abhorrent shit hole. It's statistically god awful. I've literally been in developing, 3rd world countries that are better off than the south.

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So is this a thread for north Americans who fantasize about experiencing public transport?
Do you realize that shit's awful?

>Get your phone or whatever you have in your pockets stolen
>peak hours are atrocious
>either let 4-5 buses wait and risk getting late to where you gotta go or get on a filled tin can
>never get a seat
>hot in summer
>freezing in winter
>dirty
>barely able to breath because you are trapped in an ocean of flesh
>sometimes the asshole driver doesn't even feel like stopping

Literally why would you ever want to do this?

>>1090894

Sounds like NYC transport in particular, and that's because it's underfunded and the system is literally a century old. Dense and effective city planning coupled with funded public transport is pretty solid, which is admittedly pretty rare.

The bus in my city has popular routes running every 5-7 minutes (frequent enough that you can just wait for the next one if you miss it), GPS telling you when the buses are coming, fairly new vehicles that are air conditioned, with rush hour vehicles being the ones that are even remotely packed. Electronic cards that you swipe over a machine make getting on relatively quick.

Best part is honestly just zoning out, sleeping, or dicking around on your phone while you get to your destination. There is definitely a learning curve on how to behave, what to expect; but that becomes second nature once you get acclimated to the system.

>>1090896
I'm not even from the US, we have swipe cards and most buses do just take 10 minutes or so to pass by, but if you really don't want to be pressed between some fat nigger while having to crouch slightly to avoid unintentionally harassing a woman then you'll have to let 3 or 4 pass during peak hours.

>>1090894
>>1090492
>>1090522
We realize your/our public transport is awfully shit. Get it?

>>1083852
Is it bad that I can see my building in this pic lol.

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>>1090963
you're an inpatient at the ward island psychiatric complex?

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>>1089710
>western
doesn't count faggot

>>1090894

I have had none of this shit happen on public transport in CHINA or KOREA or JAPAN.

Maybe westerners are just fucking RETARDED.

>>1090896
I know it's a bit of a long shot, but are you from Canberra?

>Northwest Hong Kong
>Have an existing light rail system
>Plan to develop nearby area
>Propose another form of tram that are seemingly not going to be compatible with the existing light rail
why.jpg

>>1091382

Nope. Milwaukee.

>>1090898

>not from the US
>niggers

So either you're from Canada (which is basically the US) or some third world country where everything is guaranteed to be shit anyway.

>>1091423
Excited for the streetcar or East-West BRT?

>>1091786

For the most part.

I am of the opinion that they should just go all in and install a high capacity light rail from Froedtert to downtown. It would serve lots of of poor minorities, college students, with two popular nodes on either end to justify the route.

Milwaukee doesn't run the state like Chicago does with Illinois though, so I could never see funding for such a project.

>>1091398
MTRCL doesn't want a losing business and can't see the value of NWNT LRT.

Hong Kong:
After some Legco member asked MTR consider putting female only cars in their train, MTR responded that doing so reduce the train capacity, disrupt platform flow management and would also necessitate the need to consider setup male only cars to avoid sexual discrimination

China start resuming 350km/h operation speed in its HSR network

>>1091859
Here in Jakarta
The first and last cars of the Commuter Train are for Women Only and then it was extended to the BRT

>>1091909
Yeah, but Jakarta is mostly Islamic, so there's religious aspect to that. Indonesia even has "Pengadilan Agama (Religious Court) to deal with codified Sharia Law cases". The country is 87% Islamic.
There are such cars probably only for the fact that women shouldn't stay with other men than their husband. It's a form of oppression of women. In case of Hong Kong I believe it had sexist feminist background.
That's interesting insight about Jakarta's transport nonetheless.

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>>1085264
>>1085266
>>1085354
>>1085497
>>1085597
>>1085964
>>1087165
What are the prospects for a person that can get a Masters in Urban Planning, but had a relatively unrelated undergrad? I've been teaching myself about GIS but my formal education is International Relations and Russian. I have experience working with policy and know plenty about urban issues from my degree, but would I have any chance of gaining skills in graduate school to make me competitive in being a transport engineer? I finally realized I wanted to do urban planning in my 3rd year of college, which makes switching majors a bit tricky.

>>1091922
Well it's not completely for Religious issues it's just because some of these people face harassment in their commute and other usual 3rd-world shit and There's only one Province that practices full Shariah here

Will it be a good idea if the waterway next to Kei Tak is used to build a seaplane base?

>>1092097
*I mean Kai Tak, HK

How expensive is it to built anti-seismic subways compared to regular ones?

How realistic is it to built a lot of roads underground?

>>1092106
>How realistic is it to built a lot of roads underground?
Totaly unrealistic since it is fucking expensive.

New thread

>>1092113

>>1092113

>>1092113