High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes

HOV Lanes are great. Less of an induced demand effect, and great for providing a cycle land buffer because 99% of cagers won't use it.

>>1081776
>cycle land buffer because 99% of cagers won't use it.
Cycling on the freeway is illegal here, but we do have extensive intercity bike paths in southern Ontario

>>1081776
HOV lanes are only on controlled acess highways. You're not riding a bike on them anyways, retard.

>>1081781
This happened in 2015 in Toronto during the pan american games. The Brazilian cycling team ended up on a controlled access highway during practice

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/brazilian-cycling-team-accidentally-ends-up-on-dvp-police-escort-them-off-1.2465627

>Now sure this has benefits and I take advantage of them when I can but wouldn't just widening the highway an extra lane help everybody?
They should just ban single occupancy cages entirely. That would help everybody.

>>1081772
>wouldn't just widening the highway an extra lane help everybody?
This just doesn't work. Look at LA. More roads = more cars

>>1081865
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27_paradox

>>1081867
good read

Don't buses use these lanes too?

>>1081865
>>1081867
Interesting concept

>>1081900
Yeah, highway 403 in Ontario uses them as part of a rapid busway system in the city of Mississauga

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississauga_Transitway

>>1081902
I really think there should be PSAs for how to drive properly on the freeway.

If the public was educated to not pass every chance you get and instead try and make pace with the person in front of you (or whatever) it could save literally a million man hours a day.

HOV lanes in South Florida are being converted into Toll roads and express ways as people use them so why mot make a profit?

>>1081914
Every road should be tolled for cars.

>>1081914
>Where can we make a profit next?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U

>>1081914
They're doing this on one highway in Ontario too; it's HOV or 'hot lanes' which you pay for a monthly pass. Idk how they enforce it though because it's the left most lane

>>1081912
>If the public was educated to not pass every chance you get and instead try and make pace with the person in front of you (or whatever) it could save literally a million man hours a day
I'm not very comfortable driving on freeways so I do this anyway. Pick a safe looking driver and follow him at a safe distance.
PSAs or just new driving laws could improve the flow

>>1081772
>Now sure this has benefits and I take advantage of them when I can but wouldn't just widening the highway an extra lane help everybody?
In the general situation, an extra normal lane would be more effective. But on the approach to a bottleneck, an HOV lane would be better.

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>>1081772
In Atlanta we don't have those. Here we have express lanes so you have to pay to get in the fast lanes. The most annoying thing is that the price goes up with the amount of traffic.

>>1081965
>capitalism

>>1081772
>As you can see from the picture during rush hour the lanes carry much less traffic.
You can't tell that by the pictures. The HOV lane could look perfectly empty because it's not backed up, but still transporting as many travellers per hour as any of the other lanes.
For (an extreme) example: one vehicle per minute at a hundred miles per hour in the HOV vs four vehicles per hour at fifty miles per hour in the other lanes. You'd think the HOV is perpetually "empty" when it is in fact just efficient.

The uttermost extreme example of this is tram lines where a single tram car often carries as many people as there are trapped in """traffic""" as far as the eye can see, yet the tram lines looks completely empty most of the time.

Efficient transport looks empty.

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>>1081971
>four vehicles per hour
minute, obviously.

HOV lines are often times slower than the other lanes in Southern California.

Our traffic is so terrible.

>>1081772
They are great in California though not nearly this empty. They also use it as an incentive for zero emissions cars, and use the rules for that to control how full the lanes are. For example, a couple of years ago they made hybrids no longer qualify.

>>1081772
Got 'em here in Vancouver. They're pretty well used and also tend to be highspeed lanes.

>>1081772
We have HOV lanes in the Denver area. With transportation money short, they tend to be a way to expand highways using private funding.

>>1081965
what? we absolutely have HOV lanes. 75/85 has them and so does 20.
those georgia pass things are on 85 north of the city

>>1081965
Jesus just do proper electronic road pricing to collect that toll with peak surcharge in rush hours.

>>1081772
An HOV or bus lane always sees less traffic. It's what they do and how it words. High capacity, high efficiency.
Whatever the name or theory induced demand should be common sense.

>>1081851
Or ban roads wider than n lanes without bus lane or HOV lanes.

>>1082154
You have a little RFID toll tag that is scanned or license plate scanners.

It's pretty simple, really. In fact, the North Texas Tollway Authority doesn't have any manned toll booths. It's all automated.

>>1082154
highway 407 in Ontario was the first fully automated toll highway
It either takes a picture of your license plate or scans a device you keep in your car

>>1081772
>Now sure this has benefits and I take advantage of them when I can but wouldn't just widening the highway an extra lane help everybody?

The point is to reduce the number of cars on the highway. HOV lanes accomplish that by rewarding multiple people who take 1 car as opposed to multiple people who take many cars.

Adding another lane doesn't reduce the number of cars on the road. It actually increases them.

I feel as if you're the sort of person who would fail out of kindergarten.

>Provincial election next year
>Don't particularly like the Liberals due to them becoming legitimately old and busted
>But hate the PCs even more since they essentially cater to cagers and will set back public transit in the province for God knows how long

orz

>>1081904

>Mobile link

That aside, isn't that half and half? (dedicated BRT east of Square One and using HOV lanes west of it)

>>1081918
>Pay road tax, vehicle tax, fuel tax

...I thought it already was, at least in the UK

the best HOV lanes I've seen are reversible and separate from the other lanes. in the morning the HOV lanes go into the city. in the afternoon the HOV lanes go out of the city.

>>1082221
>reversible
Have you ever driven in Montreal?

>>1082232
no. but i've driven in washington dc, tokyo, and atlanta.

>>1082232
Dont they do this on the bridges/tunnels into the city?

>>1082191
>That aside, isn't that half and half? (dedicated BRT east of Square One and using HOV lanes west of it)
I didn't say it exclusively used HOV lanes, just that it's part of the rapid busway

>>1082261
I'm not sure, but there's a big mess of middle lanes which change directions based on the time of day. It really is a mess and doesn't work.

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Cages are the most cuccd form of transport. You're sold an ideal which is never met and you keep paying for it, and so does society with non-stop subsidy.

>>1082113
85 is really the only way I go in and out of Atlanta. I didn't realize that HOV lanes were in other parts or I just didn't notice them.

>>1082158
In most cities it's all automated. Last time I went to Chicago they no longer had people in the booths on the skyway. It was just machines.

>>1082219
It's still not enough, they've encroached far too much.
Cars need to go back to being a luxury instead of being seen as a necessity. Cities can't handle it otherwise.

>>1081971
Though you can't always tell that by the pictures, you can in this instance. If congestion were slowing the other lanes down that much, the vehicles in them would be closer together.

And with very fast vehicles, a greater space is needed between them, so they're actually less efficient in terms of throughput.

Trams can be more efficient, but that's to do with the vehicle capacity not the mode or the speed. Though I've never seen it myself, ISTR reading there's a bus lane under the Hudson River that carries more people than almost any railway.

>>1081788
Why do retards from third world countries have no fucking common sense? It's not like Brazil doesn't have highways where tons of cars are speeding at 100km/h, so why the fuck would they get on one with their bikes

>>1082329
The DVP is a shitty freeway running down a valley. If it was empty it would probably look like a cycling track

>>1082320
>Trams can be more efficient, but that's to do with the vehicle capacity not the mode or the speed.
In Toronto studies have been done which show that the streetcars attract a broader ridership than buses
Meaning people of higher socioeconomic status would choose to ride the street car over the bus. It is one of the arguments in favour of keeping our extensive streetcar network

>>1082329
Cycling on freeways is legal and even facilitated in some countries.

>>1082219
>Road tax
No such thing. (Yes, this is a trap.)

>>1082446
Just accept your bus service isn't good enough over that.

>>1082320
Thanks for replying, though I think I must protest.
>Though you can't always tell that by the pictures, you can in this instance. If congestion were slowing the other lanes down that much, the vehicles in them would be closer together.
Are we looking at the same picture? Because a lot of them are barely a cars length apart.
>And with very fast vehicles, a greater space is needed between them, so they're actually less efficient in terms of throughput.
At or near their maximum capacity, yes. Though through that we only know that the HOV lane is not at or near it's maximum throughput capacity. We do not know if it matches the regular lanes in throughput.

Remember to multiply the number of cars in the HOV lane by a fudgy number between two and four. Taking the rightmost half of the picture as an example, I count at least five vehicles in the HOV lane. Possibly six. I count twelve or thirteen in the adjacent lane that can be somewhat clearly made out. That's a minimum of 10-12 people in the "empty" HOV lane, as opposed to 12-13 in the lane next to it. Assuming more than two occupants per vehicle in the HOV lane the number could be greatly in the HOV lanes favour. And that's without even getting into the fact that we might or mightn't have greater and more consistent speeds in the HOV lane, artificially deflating the number of vehicles visible at any given time slice.

To reiterate, efficient transport looks empty. Your eyes are deceiving you.
1/2

2/2
>>1082320
>Trams can be more efficient, but that's to do with the vehicle capacity not the mode or the speed.
You're correct on the capacity point. Which is the exact mechanism in play with HOV lanes. It is, however, also partly to do with mode and (average) speed. Trams have ROW and do not get backed up. A tram stuck in traffic (through no fault of its own) would not be very useful. Similarly, being stuck in traffic in your six people occupancy minivan is a very marginal efficiency gain and not one people are usually willing to make. Single occupancy vehicles are a game of externalities where there is very little incentive for individual actors to act in the common good, unless some artificial encouragement is offered. Gaining access to superficially "over provisioned" HOV lanes is one such incentive. Even if I were a die-hard, single occupancy fundamentalist cager I would want more such initiatives because they reduce congestion to the benefit of everyone, including mine.

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>>1082480
I hate our buses man
The new street cars are comfy af tho

>>1082463
Not in civilized countries.
>>1082329
It's because they're subhuman monkeys

>>1082600
Yes, some civilized countries do. Simmer down.

>>1082484
>Are we looking at the same picture? Because a lot of them are barely a cars length apart.
I was looking at the full size version of OP's picture. Yes, a lot of the cars on the normal lanes are barely a cars length apart, but crucially a lot of them aren't. A road where congestion was limiting throughput wouldn't have so many of the bigger gaps.

I notice there's a pair of cars on the HOV lane that are just as close.

BTW I don't regard HOV lanes as efficient transport.

>>1081772

Probably already mentioned, but an extra lane just encourages more cars on the road, whereas an HOV lane may take actually take cars off.

HOV lanes alone are on the downswing while the new (not really new but more are being built) thing is HOT lanes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-occupancy_toll_lane, as was mentioned earlier.

>>1081929
>Idk how they enforce it though because it's the left most lane

I suspect it's like the automated nonstop tolls. If you have the card (in the NE we have EZpass, for example), it detects it and charges you normally. If it does not detect the payment card, it snaps a picture of your license plate and mails you the bill (or penalty fee for violations). Similar to bus lane cameras which work by grabbing your license plate and sending you the fine.

>>1082446
Buses literally stink. They're also affected by other traffic, so they're more prone to running late or, worse, early. Can't count how many times I missed a bus in the town I went to school because those fuckers never kept to the schedule.

I fucking hate buses.

>>1081971
>one vehicle per minute at a hundred miles per hour in the HOV

Buses use the HOV lanes. So no hundred miles per hour. More like 10 under the single vehicle lanes.

>>1081971
>a single tram car often carries as many people

Your metric fails from the point of view of people whos time is worth something. City measures people per hour, which makes slow transit with poor connections look good. People who actually have to be somewhere measure their transit time. Even if the single occupant lanes are slow, I often get where I'm going faster by driving.

>>1081772
Fines for high occupancy vehicles using the single occupant lanes when?

>>1084294
Why not just ban single occupiancy vehicles all together?

>>1084330
And while you're at it, make everybody ride unicorns. Not gonna happen.

>>1081867
I never bought into that. Braess' paradox is a thought experiment that has never been proven, and we've only seen instances where the inverse has happened. And even that isn't a sure thing (example: when I-85 collapsed in Atlanta, most peoples' self-reported commute time after the collapse was significantly worse than before the collapse).

>>1084462
>Braess' paradox is a thought experiment that has never been proven
No, it's sound maths. The only unprovable part is the consistency of the axioms.
If a model doesn't follow the paradox then the model wasn't applicable.

How about a train-based public transport system like in japan?

>>1084348
Oslo is banning cars all together. It is clearly not only possible, but happening.

>>1081772
Nice but for HOV lanes to work you have to occupy at least half of the lanes or more.