Electric Bikes Now?

You want to search for ebike stores in your area and try them. For some reason ebikes companies have their own stores and bike stores don't touch them.

This is one of those situations like phones and other memey tech bullshit where the internet is useless because all the useful information is drowned out by hype and marketing.

What kills the e-bikes is the 25kph speed limit. Totally worthless for road bikes and seriously limits MTB use. That being said, are you looking at road or MTB?

Electric bicycle is a concept completely beyond my understanding. Seriously, why? Why not an electric scooter or even a moped if you need motor assist? Why not a recumbent if you'd like to go fast not under UCI designations? Why carry that heavy ass bike everywhere for, what, 60 minutes of lighter ride?
I dimply don't get it.

>>1066876
>no registration
>no insurance
>lightweight
>relatively cheap
>not entirely reliant on the engine
The people that ride bikes today aren't really the target market for e-bikes. They are for people that need something for city travel but don't want to get sweaty while doing it. My only problem is the 25 km/h limit and the assistance power limit at 250 W. Change those to 30 km/h and 500 W and the possibilities for city bikes are amazing.

>>1066809
e-bikes belong on /o/

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>>1066878
>>no registration
>>no insurance
>>lightweight
>>relatively cheap
>>not entirely reliant on the engine
Isn't that what a moped is essentially?

>>1066899
Mopeds need licence plates and a driver's licence in Europe, a moped/scooter over 50cc is considered a motorbike in some countries.
Electric mopeds are pretty much considered bicycles since they don't have an internal combustion engine.

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>>1066858
>>1066876
It's simple really, for me I live on a dirt and gravel road with a steep ass hill. I don't ride out from my house on my recumbent or my hybrid because that climb through dirt and gravel kills me at the end. It just make it not worth going, for me at least.

Instead I have to load shit up, e.g. get out the bike rack, put it on, put the bike on, load my gear, drive somewhere, unload all my shit, gear up, ride etc. I used go through all that but since I had kids I've only done it once.

I just want to be able to leave my garage, go for a ride in the paved part of the neighborhood and come home without killing myself to get to my driveway. I never realized how important sidewalks are. I'm hoping an electric bike will do that for me and I'll get back to the point I can climb the hill home without killing myself.

t. fatass out of shape now

>>1066897
>tfw no /o/ /n/ merge

>>1066809
If you want reliable and quality then you go to a big company like Specialized and get their e-bike offering, but you'll pay as much for that as you would for a used motorcycle.

If you want cheap there's conversion kits, but they're all made in China by companies that DGAF about round-eyes surviving past the payment being deposited into their bank account, and it's a coin-flip whether the goddamned thing will get you killed or not.

In any case you'll end up with something that's literally a bastard stepchild of a motorcycle and a bicycle that has severe birth defects, even worse than a moped, because it won't have all the lights and signals of a moped or motorcycle, and likely not the robust brakes of a motorcycle, making it much less safe on public roads, in exchange for which you'll usually still have to pedal the thing and it overall won't have sufficient range or speed to actually be anywhere near as useful as you'd like it to be.

In the end you're better off either getting a motorcycle/scooter/actual moped, or just spending the thousands of dollars you'd otherwise spend on buying a decent normal bicycle and ceasing to be a fat weak pussy and just pedal the goddamned thing like a normal person.

>>1066897
You know what's even worse than pedophiles, feelfags, and social justice warriors? Piece-of-shit 4channers that post in threads they don't like just to complain about the thread, because they don't like it. Go take a long walk off a short pier, buddy.

>>1066858
if you go faster than 25km/h then that's under your own steam, as the motor unit will stop assisting.

>>1066809
anything with a bosch, yamaha, or shimano drive unit, but expect to pay $2k more for the equivalent spec of a non-E-bike.

I ride an ebike, for those that don't understand ebike's purpose I can explain my pov.

I have a health condition which makes me need to sleep a lot and makes a 9-5 job unbearable. At the same time, I try to support myself financially. I live in the US where everything is spaced far apart. Every hour I spend on a bike is maybe an hour and a half taken from my ability to work, but of course gentle exercise is still healthy.

I used to ride a moped, which required license and associated fees, registration BS, a huge helmet, and lots of clothes in winter. Moped feels much more dangerous than bike, being forced to stay on road, I think statistics would support that feeling. I was also always looking out for police, and could only carry what would fit in my backpack.

I put a $1500 conversion on $250 of CL bike, for $1750 total. The moped was $3200 plus $250 helmet, belongs to my parents so I am off the hook. To top it off, the bike is so much more pleasant to ride, and not much slower. I can carry at least twice as much cargo easily, without needing a backpack. I can tie long unweildy items to the frame without worrying about getting ticketed for it.

(contd)
In a country built for cars, with garbage public transit and a well entrenched system for reaming auto owners, ebikes offer a viable alternative to car ownership. Each person who ditches their car/motorcycle for an ebike makes cycling in all forms considerably safer and easier.

The cost and repair of commercially available units sucks right now, but perhaps that will change. I hope the lack of wealth in younger generation prompts more bike usage (god knows the rich and powerful aren't looking out for us), and if bikes can be adapted to fit more people's needs, why resist?

I really want an electric bike so I can tow my dog on a trailer to some state parks somewhat close. I can get her there on my own now but it's hard as hell so I'm not willing to walk too long once I'm there. An electric bike would make it easy to get there so we can spend more time walking in the forest. I've considered a Haibike or Rad City but I'd like to sell my motorcycle first.

>>1066935

And you can't really go much faster due to the huge loss of power with the motor unit spinning along. It's like hitting a wall after the limit. It would be great, if the limit would be like 35, and the assist gradually fading instead of being so sudden.

>>1066809
Considering a conversion kit so I can get around without stinking of sweat.

I also like electric mopeds but they aren't exactly the prettiest so electric bikes would probably catch on more outside of China.

>>1067021
With my hub motor I can easily maintain more than 25km/h unassisted on flat ground, it's not all that much slower than my unassisted bikes. It certainly a pig to get it going with all the extra weight but that's what I use the motor for, accelerating (and climbing, and burnouts).

The limit on my bike is actually adjustable or even removable entirely, yet I still keep it on a lot of the time (although adjusted up a couple mph) just so I save battery power when cruising on flat ground and so I get a bit more exercise.

I certainly agree that the power limit is way to low in a lot of places though, 250-300w just isn't enough for some steep climbs. Mine's ~700w and whilst I keep it limited to about 350w most of the time when I want to climb or accelerate I press the throttle which overrides the limit and uses all of the power.

>>1066926
>tfw no /two wheels/ board

>>1066926
You ain't gonna get in shape if you kickin in that motor in face of the slightest challenge, fatso.

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ELECTRIC BIKERS DESERVE TO DIE

FUCK OFF TO >>>/o/

FUCKING SHITHEAD FUCK

>>1066927
e-bike fatass needs pedos to feel better about being an e-bike fatass, is probably a pedo himself

>>1066878
If you do that you'll need thicker heavier wheels too.

I'm pretty sure it should be possible to hack the speedometer so that the assist motor stays with you over 25 kmh.

>>1067294
fuck off mate i check >>>/o/bike and >>>/o/elec daily and fuck if i can find anything about electric bikes or ebikes.

ebikes and electric bikes are /n/ and we are staying here.

>>1066926
why not just ride a regular bike where you can and little by little learn to climb the hill on the bike? not saying you have to book it all the way up on your first ride, but maybe you only ride a quarter of the way and then walk it the rest, then the time you go out you ride a little further up and walk a little less,etc. etc.

I'd rather walk my bike up a hill a few times instead of investing in a goofy e-bike

>>1067021
even with the current 250w motor units they can go faster, but they require registration and licencing as a motorcycle be it an off-road motorcycle or road legal, and it's not worth the hassle, so you just restrict it from the factory, and wait for someone to hack it to go faster.

>>1069167
250w is too much power, no civilian needs 250 watts of power, 50w is just fine are you riding an assault ebike?

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More natural weight distribution than wheel motor systems
Integrated lights
Integrated rack
Fenders
No suspension mush but plenty of tire
45kmh
180k+ rangel in economic
350w 60nm assist
Available now from a reputable manufacturer with 15 years of ebike experience

So I'm looking for a good and fast road bike. I live in norway so the speed limit for a bike is 30km/h. Anyone got recomendations??

>>1069213
By the way I have over $5000

>>1069215
Trek super commuter is the bike posted above. I'm sure it is governed to meet whatever legal requirements in your region if it's sold there.

Othet than that look for something using the Bosch or shimano Esteps system.

>>1069220
Its not for sale here in norway yet, bjt there are other ebikes made by Trek with shimanu system

>>1069234
Ah that's unfortunate. It may be available soon though as it is a spring 2017 release model. I saw a youtube video released yesterday interviewing a trek person about the upcoming crossrip+ which also may be a good option in the near future

Hey OP,
Checkout the Bafang Midrives. I bought one and installed it on my commuter road bike.
Cost was 2000 dollars US with a 48 volt, 14 amp hour battery. I use the motor to get to work(no showers + 15 miles one way = stinky BO), and ride home under my own power for the work out because I like to mountain bike on the weekends without an e-bike.

>>1069482
So is there a good bill of materials for making your own DOT-compliant e-bike?

Found a company in Vancouver BC recently called Grin Tech. They sell a lot of ebike parts--seem like a good company who might actually care about customers.

>>1069212
>350W
That is cute...
>>1071030
I used Hobbyking Multistar 5,2Ah 4S LiPo batterys(10 of them), a kelly KBL72151X, controller and a 3000W Johnway scooter motor for my project.
It is not legal though...
But it does 0-100km/h in under 10 seconds at 70% power and is fun as hell...

>>1069213
>speed limit for a bike is 30km/h
>speed limit for a bike
Do you actualy get a ticket when going any faster?

>>1071801
I assume he means ebikes, in europe and australia they're speed restricted, you can go faster than that speed, but you have to do it all yourself.

I recall seeing one of those cop shows (think it was in victoria) where they pulled over a guy on his self-made ebike which he was cruising along at 40 km/h on.

>>1071810
In germany E-bikes are only allowed to boost up to 25km/h (45km/h with inshureance and licenceplate) but you are still allowed to drive them as fast as you want.

>>1071801
At least here the speed limits are for all vehicles. Cars, and bikes alike. So yes it's possible to get a ticket from speeding on a bicycle. However I don't know anyone who has ever gotten one.

>>1071827
Apparently here in the UK speed limits don't apply to bicycles or any other human powered vehicles, only motorised vehicles (assisted bikes under 250w and with the motor limited to 25km/h are considered non-motorised in the eyes of the law). I'd love to trip a speed camera one day, especially a mobile one in a van, just to see what would happen.

>>1066876

Have you ever ridden one?

Once you feel what it feels like to have that motor helping you, you'll get it. It's like the difference between walking and biking.

>>1067165
>>1069141

Biking up a steep hill is fucking awful, don't give us this "hurrr r u fat" shit, you either don't live in a place with hills or you're a professional athlete. For most NORMAL people living in NORMAL places, biking up a hill fucking blows and kills any enjoyment you might get out of going on the bike ride.

People actually buy electric bikes for a reason and you can't argue them out of existence by calling people fat you fucking retards.

>>1071904
>he doesn't like climbing
>he doesn't enjoy slowly improving
>he doesn't try to beat his climbing section times

>>1071907

You're right. I, like most normal people, do not give a fuck about any of that. We have places to be.

Nobody buys an electric bike to obsess over fitness. You seem to be in the wrong thread.

>>1071907
Those are all fine if you're riding recreationally. However if you're buying a vehicle for transportation and happen to live in a hilly area then being able to hold 25 km/h on hills is a pretty massive selling point.

>>1069213
>I live in norway so the speed limit for a bike is 30km/h.

Really? Because that isn't what the law says.

https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/1990-02-19-119

Section 2:

>Som sykkel regnes også kjoretoy som nevnt i forste ledd og som er utstyrt med elektrisk hjelpemotor med maksimal nominell effekt på hoyst 0,25 kW hvor hjelpemotorens effekt reduseres gradvis og opphorer når kjoretoyet oppnår en hastighet på 25 km/t, eller tidligere hvis syklisten slutter å trå/veive. Det tillates at kjoretoyet har fremdrift kun ved motorkraft opp til 6 km/t. Kjoretoy som nevnt i dette ledd anses ikke som motorvogn etter vegtrafikkloven

Norway adopted the same guidelines that the EU did regarding E-bikes, so it's 25 kph. Where in Norway can you legally ride a 30 kph E-bike (and how)?

I might just be missing something here.

>>1066927

What is with you idiots who think you can argue electric bicycles out of existence?

This is an industry that pumps out over 30 million units a year and sells them all over the world, and yet you think you're going to magically stop all of this by weakly shaming people on the internet?

>>1071907
>mfw faster than E-bikes
>on the uphill
>with 24" Decathlonshitbike
>because manlet

>>1071908
>not getting fit AND going places

>>1071921
>24"
>manlet
Do you get lifted on to the saddle?

>ITT lardasses looking for excuses to not put any effort in
This thread is sad.

>>1071908
>We have places to be.
Get a car, moped, bus ticket or whatever, nigga. And stop talking shit.
Right now all you ""have to be"" is be seen riding a bicycle without actually doing it. How many hipster points do you get that way?

>>1071958
No, but I have to set it all the way down...

>>1072067
>car
wastes urban space
>moped
exactly the same but petrol powered, more expensive and not allowed on bike paths
>bus ticket
really...
>you must choose amoung these things only because stop liking what i dont like
autism

>>1072091
>not allowed on bike paths
As opposed to e-bikes which are flat-out illegal on bike paths, roads, sidewalks, and everywhere else you fucks like to zoom around while screaming in terror because you're going well in excess of your ability to control your vehicle?

Everyone hates e-bikes because e-bikers are literally just cagers on two wheels

>>1066809

Buy a moped if you don't want to paddle. It's cheaper faster and more convenient.

>>1072092
In many places e-bikes, as long as they meet certain requirements, are allowed everywhere that a solely pedal powered bike is. That includes bike paths as well as roads.

>>1072092
>As opposed to e-bikes which are flat-out illegal on bike paths
Not anywhere in the EU at least. I'm sorry to hear that you live in such a shithole. But then again, might it be that you're just fabricating your own laws on the fly to suit your preconceptions or lack of arguments?

>>1072101
What kind of price-range is actually reasonable for a used moped anyway?

Not OP, but I'm half entertaining the idea of getting one if the costs are far enough below getting a car. (Mostly for ease of licensing, since there's a pretty big backlog in my area for driving lessons.)

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>>1072135
Depending on brand, model, age and kilometers.
Usually 300(shitty scooter)-2000€(based Simson).

>>1072067
>Right now all you ""have to be"" is be seen riding a bicycle without actually doing it.

How is this something that you are actually threatened by?

Seriously. Explain this mindset to me.

>>1072092
>As opposed to e-bikes which are flat-out illegal on bike paths, roads, sidewalks, and everywhere else

E-bikes can be ridden anywhere that a normal bicycle can. This is true all over the world.

> zoom around while screaming in terror because you're going well in excess of your ability to control your vehicle

E-bikes don't go faster than a normal bike, they simply make it easier to accelerate.

You seem to be describing an electric moped or something, not an E-bike.

>>1069129
>i check >>>/o/bike and >>>/o/elec daily and fuck if i can find anything about electric bikes or ebikes.
You can also check /n/ and not find any if not for this shitty fucking thread of yours
Now fuck off and post the thread where it belongs, on /o/
Go fuck yourself

>>1069213
>>1069215
Get a real bike not an electric "bike" you stupid lazy fat fuck

what is it about bikes that turns people into bike people?

i used to ride a bike and i just rode a bike without thinking about anything, except that one time i got a loose thread from my sock stuck and even then all i thought was "what can i use to cut this sock" but these guys are like serious

>>1072194
Salty bikefag

>>1072194
>>1072195
Calm your autism, Timmy.

>>1072204
It's like any hobby, there's always some that take things way too seriously and lack the ability for self reflection.

>>1072104
>>1072155
>E-bikes can be ridden anywhere that a normal bicycle can. This is true all over the world.
Cool story fatass

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

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E bikes are pretty fun, and useful especially for commuting.

Grinding out many so km's on a boring commute thats identical every day is a waste of the body. I'd rather save mine for recreational rides after work.

I still pedal and ride my non-e mtb's a lot more, but an e-bike more so replaces my car. I can do my 30 km commute in the same amount of time as it takes to drive during traffic hour. Traffic is really soul crushing.

With my ebike, I have a lot of fun AND exercise during my commute. Compared to driving where you get none at all. I can add as much human power as I feel like to my ebike. Sometimes lots, sometimes little but it always gets the blood pumping.'

My custom cruiser has been super solid over all types terrain for about 15k kms now. 55 kph top speed on flats, 50-100 km range, 95 lbs.

>>1072282

They can. Cite me a law that says otherwise.

>>1072311
Take a new picture of your fucking bike. I'm pretty sure you've posted this one >25 times now.

So, any nice headlamps worth putting on an electric bike?

>>1066809
kys fatty

>>1072311
holy disc brake rotors man, those are massive

Has anyone used ferrofluid to increase the cooling on their hub motor?

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>>1066900
Pic related doesn't need a licence.

>>1072311
I like your bike it's pretty cyb

>>1072311
i hope this battery explodes inbetween your legs and you die.

I would get one if it doesn't cost me 3 months worth of full time work.

I have experience with bikes, e-bikes and mopeds so I'll write up some pros and cons then compare the e-bike to the moped and regular bike

>Bike
>Pros
Cheapest option to buy
Cheapest to run
Easy to work on
Exercise
Can be put on a bus
>Cons
Get sweaty on commute
Can be tiring

>Moped
>Pros
Larger range than the e-bike
Cheaper to buy than the e-bike
Refueling is much faster
>Cons
Loud
Costs more to run than the e-bike
Smells bad
Harder to work on
More prone to issues than the e-bike
Needs to be licensed, registered and insured in most places
Pedal assist is a cruel joke
Not allowed on any path

>E-bike
>Pros
Cheaper to charge than the moped is to fuel
Quiet
Easy to work on (standard bike parts)
Comfier to ride then the moped
Discrete
Is still an okay bike if it runs out of power
Can be put on a bus
Great on hills
Multiple levels of pedal assist and a throttle
>Cons
Most expensive to buy
Short range
Long charge times
Much heavier than a standard bike
Batteries degrade
Legally has to be slower than the moped
Not allowed on some paths


So in conclusion:
The moped is good if you commute over 20 miles but you're probably better off getting a car.
The e-bike is good if you commute and don't want to exert yourself at all at least one way.
The bicycle is only as good as you are.

>>1076225
>>Moped
>>1076225
>Needs to be licensed, registered and insured in most places
>Not allowed on any path
not in France

>>1066858
>>1066878
I honestly don't know why would anyone want to ride over 25 kmh in the city when in lots of places cyclists are non-existent by default in the minds of other road users

>>1076357
My experience is soley in the US

>>1076361
aren't the US quite bad in that regard? where do you live in there?

personally I live in Montreal (QC), and here neither pedestrians nor cagers do account for the existence of cyclists, and bike paths are literally door-zones in which the city has painted a white line

I have drastically reduced my avg cruise speed after being cut by a cager turning right and being deemed responsible for the accident

>>1076369
Yeah, it's mostly the same here.
I live in maryland. We have some paths but it's mostly road. Drivers are okay. They're inattentive but only the fat ones are malicious.
I wear a taser in a hip holster, so they probably think i have a gun and they won't touch me though. I got the idea from a guy here who got tapped and started carrying and never had another indecent

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>>1072208
>>1072258

>>1076380
Kill yourself

>>1076379
I should indeed look into looking more agressive, altough carrying in quebec would probably get me arrested after 5 mins on the road

thks for the tip though

>>1071904

Gears. Learn how to use them. You're either fat, retarded, or both.

>>1072358
Yeah I guess you're right. I'll get a new pic next time, just for you.

>>1074925
Just standard 203mm rotors.

>>1075933
thanks

>>1076193
well, that's not very nice.

>>1071904
>Biking up a steep hill is fucking awful, don't give us this "hurrr r u fat" shit, you either don't live in a place with hills or you're a professional athlete. For most NORMAL people living in NORMAL places, biking up a hill fucking blows and kills any enjoyment you might get out of going on the bike ride.
idk man i always feel accomplished when i crush a widowmaker climb.

t. fatass mtber

What's a good waterproof connector for adding accessories?

>>1071904
biking up a hill is easy for anyone with the right gears desu

>>1071904
I bet you're asian

Althought I don't think there's anything wrong with ebikes.

>>1066899
Seriously, have you ever tried to pedal a moped more than 10 feet? Ain't no bicycle, dude.

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>>1077636
Try Deutsch connectors. The auto OEMs use them too.

>>1076225
>Legally has to be slower than the moped

Yes, but - mopeds almost universally require a helmet, license, and vehicle registration, as well as being restricted to certain roads and pathways.

E-bikes require none of that, and can be ridden virtually any place that a normal bicycle can be.

>Not allowed on some paths

In 99% of cases, where a bicycle can go, an E-bike can go too. The exceptions are very few and far between.

>>1076729
>i always feel accomplished when i crush a widowmaker climb.

Cool, but the fact is that the vast majority of E-bike users are normal people who want a commuting vehicle, not an exercise machine. The main demographic for E-bikes in North America is your mom, not you. Ask your mom if she wants to pedal up those hills.

you know it takes all of 5 minutes to remove the limit on an electric bike right?

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>>1066809
>best ebike shit out there
Mid-drives > hub driven motors

The most indestructable ebike kit is from Tangent Motors. Just add it to your mtb/downhill bike of choice. Chromoly cycloidal 40:1 gearbox lasercut here in the US and a milspec USA made motor:
http://tangentmotors.com/
pic related, my bike w/ 300+ service free miles on it


>>1079059
>Deutsch
My man. Their DT/DTM patent ran out, so they can be had from Amphenol under the 'AT/ATP' model. This and Anderson Powerpoles account for 99% of my non-pc/microcontroller wiring.

>>1080542

Sure, but:

1) It's illegal. If you attract the attention of the police or lawyers for any reason (like, say, you get into an accident, or inflict an injury/property damage with your bike), you are probably screwed. The police will charge you with offenses related to modifying your bike and your insurance company will disown you, on top of all the misery that comes with whatever the original situation was. It's not a great idea.

2) That's only true of some electric bikes. You need to have two things - a controller which can be modified, and a motor which can (safely and reliably) output the higher speed you want. If you can't modify the controller, you'd have to replace it with one you can. If you set the controller limit higher but your motor can't output the power you want, you have to replace the motor with a more powerful one. And most of the time, even when you *can* run a motor with higher power, doing so shortens the motor's life and may lead to catastrophic failures that destroy the motor. Running a motor at higher power than it was designed for creates heat which can weaken the glue which holds the permanent magnets in place - when one becomes unstuck while the motor is running, it shatters into pieces which then fly around the inside of the motor, tearing shit up and getting stuck in bad places.

It's really just smarter to buy a more powerful bike (which is legal where you live) rather than modifying one.

If I wanted to run some higher draw electrical accessories on my bike, say a proper headlamp, are there any speed controllers out there that would have an auxiliary 12 volt circuit good for, say, 4-5 amps? Or someplace I can tie in a DC-DC converter at pack voltages for an equivalent wattage?

I have to wonder if mid-drive is really that great of an idea for a high power e-bike. Seems like it could lead to broken chains. Particularly if you accidentally apply a lot of power during a down shift. Or ripped off derailleurs if you experience chain suck and the motor helps you blow through the resistance that would normally tell you to stop pedaling.

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>>1082918
>Seems like it could lead to broken chains.

Do I need to elaborate any further?

>>1082920
Considering that isn't a bicycle chain and lacks a derailleur, you certainly do.

>>1082918
What do you consider to be high power? It may surprise you to know that humans can put out a fair bit of power themselves and don't break chains (not due to the power anyway, chains break when they're worn or damaged). I'm talking about the 1700-2000w range.

>>1082950
Yeah, chains can survive people standing up on their bikes and using their entire weight on one crank to push them. 70kg of rider pushing down on a crank is a lot of newtons.

>>1082908
>12v aux at 4a
It depends on your pack voltage - most dc-dc converters top out at 48v input. Ebikes.ca makes a really small, potted unit that I use to power my LED lamps, a USB port, and microcontroller stuff. The larger potted aluminum ones used on golfcarts that say 48v I've tested up to 85V but they are quite a bit larger.

>>1082918
>mid drives and broken chains
Lots of folks running 7kw+ without problem on a chain (as high as 40kw with smaller reduction see Endless-Sphere user 'recumpence'). I've found 5kw at 20:1 reduction really reliable.

Chain breaks are usually the result of 4 things:
- chain angle
You'll want to optimize for whatever gear you spend time in. On an ebike this is usually the high gear. You'll also want at least >14 tooth gear else it wont hold and the chain will slip. This could be as benign as a 'popping' sound as it slips to fucking up your derailleur.
- chain bounce
Use a clutched rear derailleur - solves this issue. Without it you get oscillations in the chain that result in dropped chains that get broken as they bind up in your drivetrain.
- unsmooth/jerky starts cause breakage
Use high enough reduction and you will get a smooth preload. If <~20:1, you'll want to use a throttle ramping circuit inline with the throttle input. Google 'throttle tamer' and the throttle mapping feature of the Cycle Analyst. This was a big problem on my GNG kit running at 6kw.
- Shit Chinese hardware
Poor chain quality chain tensioners and excessive runout on reduction side jackshafts are usually to blame. Don't buy Chinese shit.

If I wanted to go fast, would I be better off buying a bike with 20 or 26 inch tires? 20" rims can be shod with moped tires.

>>1066876
My dad's friend is an old man recovering from a broken leg, the electric assistance was enough to get him rolling again.

All the other people I've met had DUIs or were just lazy.

>>1084681
It depends. If you want to go stupidly fast then motorcycle tyres are going to hold up better than bicycle tyres, but that's probably going to require a custom frame and fork at which point you may as well just get a motorcycle chassis and do an electric conversion.

If you want to stick to using actual bicycle parts then 26" is probably a good idea (27.5" if you want more tyre choices into the future).

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>>1084685
> motorcycle tyres are going to hold up better than bicycle tyres, but that's probably going to require a custom frame and fork
Nah, you can use 19" motorcycle rim (use on 125cc kids frames) laced into a mtb hub. It will be the same circumference as a 26" mtb tire and still fit 135mm dropouts. 3"+ wide tires will require special mods/frames - but plenty of people out there on motorcylce rims.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55458
and
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=65293

>>1084681
20" tires will make more torque - but speed is really dependent on battery pack voltage and gearing.

>>1085887
I said probably, which is true if he uses motorcycle tyres as well as the wide rims. Wide rims with a stretched narrowed bicycle tyre would be more likely to fit (trials rear tyres are 19", not sure if it's the same 19" as used on motorcycles, or using 20" rims as he said) but then that doesn't get the advantage of motorcycle tyres.

Trek Super Commuter. It's an awesome bike; super fast and comfortable.

>>1069176
i'd take an extra 250w on top of my 300w threshold anyday. sitting at 550w for an hour? for 60kg rider? yes please.

I'd like to have an electric mtb for commutes. I could ride to work wearing my shirt and tie. No worries about sweating. Sit in a relaxed position instead of streched position with shit visibility in traffic. But I could still have fun with the bike when I'd see some nice spots for fooling around.

Mopeds are noisy, too heavy for playing around and still not that cheap. Ebikes are too expensive though and that's why I still commute with my cx-bike.

I don't understand all that hate against ebikes. I think they're marvellous for the masses. What's wrong with them?

>>1071956
NEET life must be nice.

>>1072152
Everyone who starts riding efficient electric bicycles is someone who is not burning gasoline to haul a ton of steel back and forth every day. It threatens the OPEC Princes' hooker budget.

>>1066834

>For some reason

Most bike shops build their business around moving product quickly. It's an industry where inventory loses value relatively quickly, because every new wave of shit/each year's model drives down the price of the old.

E-bikes are new, niche, and expensive. They just don't sell quickly enough for shops to feel comfortable carrying them.

>>1086227

I've spent a while researching e-bikes and it seems that the only way to really do it right is to DIY it, and at that point you might as well build a full-on electric motorcycle or moped so that you can legally (and safely) go faster. It seems like it'll end up being about the same price anyway.

It might be worth waiting until next year, because the Li-ion gigafactories are going online now, and battery prices should be a lot lower. The fun thing is that you can build your bike using cheap acid batteries and swap out the battery packs when you find a good price on some cells.

I may pick up one of those cheap conversion kits floating around eBay to play with, though.

>>1066809
>Inside peadel down on a turn

I am triggered.

>>1086271
It's not down, the cranks are level. Outside pedal down is preferred but he has plenty of ground clearance.

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>>1086227
>They just don't sell quickly enough for shops to feel comfortable carrying them.

But that's wrong, you idiot.

Most of the shops I've been to in the last year have had at least a few electric bikes on the floor. They're Baby Boomer Bait.

Which is fine.

Pedal-assist is an interesting technology with lots of potentially really cool applications for real cyclists who really ride. Just look at how fast motor doping blew up on the racing scene. The extra watts make options available to you that would otherwise not be.

In the not-too-distant future I would love to see a discipline somewhere between technical XC and technical moto trials.

>>1086277
>>They just don't sell quickly enough for shops to feel comfortable carrying them.
>But that's wrong, you idiot.
>Most of the shops I've been to in the last year have had at least a few electric bikes on the floor. They're Baby Boomer Bait.

I agree with this.
My local Trek shop recently started carrying at least 2-3 e-bikes, and that's how they can sell them. I honestly thought they were just going to gather dust all the time, but I saw 2 new Townie Go!s ordered and built for a couple that probably wouldn't have spent $5k on bicycles if they couldn't try one first-hand (they weren't "cyclists" or cycling enthusiasts)
The shop FB page posted the first Trek Super Commuter+ 8S that they got in being assembled, and a post the next day of a customer that came in and bought it. The salesperson that sold it told me that customer didn't come in because of Facebook or that he was even looking for a shop that had one.

It doesn't seem economical to stock an expensive bike hoping someone will come in and buy it, but it's near impossible to sell someone a bike like that without knowing what it's like yourself (as a salesperson) or having the potential customer feel it for themselves.

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I figure they're all mass produced in china. They're improving them all the time. You're better off waiting, I think
These kind of bikes are the most powerful, I think.

DJ Bikes Mountain 500W 7-Speed Electric Bicycle, 48V

>>1085887
Thanks for the links.
I think I'll go for the M/C tires at first and work on the other parts of street legalizing as funds allow.

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>>1066876
I thought this until I was riding a shit beater bike home in January after a 12 hour shift in a fucking warehouse, in the pissing freezing rain, uphill. Totally fucked and cursing the world and some meme old guy went past me like bzzzzzzzzzzzz, into the park, still going uphill, and he was gone. I continued to crawl upwards, never saw him again.

>>1086121
And super expensive!

Just got my first ebike to commute. Gtech Sports

>>1089570
I see all kind of cheap 500 dollar ones.

A lot of this thread, people have been talking about wattage and pushing up hills, bitching about speed limiters and trying to get them to 50 mph.

Are the cheap ones with a 250 watt outage really that bad? I have a 2 mile commute and its entirely flat city, I could bike without breaking a sweat, but IM FAT AND LAZY, and would rather walk half asleep to work. I would love a cheap alternative to get me to the luxury of the 21st centrury, but if I have to buy a 3 thousand dollar one to be happy then fuck it, Id rather just buy some clunky scooter and get into the red tape.

>>1089707
For flat landing 250w is fine, you'll just accelerate a bit slower. It should be enough to get you up to the 25km/h or so limit with little effort from yourself and then you can try and maintain a speed above that (it's really not that hard) or just be lazy and go a bit slower with the motor helping.

I am repeating/seconding some things have already been said here:

If you want reliability, go with a big brand. Raleigh has some inexpensive ones. Specialized. Trek. The following brands are more specialty: Haibike, Kahlkoff. Gazelle. Focus. The motors you want are Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha.

Cheaper route is to convert an existing bike. I would recommend a kit from eRad. They are a distributor of Bafang motors, BUT they offer assistance and warranty and instructions, i.e. support, for their product. Very reliable, and if you have any problems, you can call a human in the United States.

That's what we use at my bike shop. Enjoy!

>>1069212
Shit, I didn't know Trek makes good looking bikes.

>>1072155
>E-bikes don't go faster than a normal bike, they simply make it easier to accelerate.

>meanwhile in the real world
>old people on ebikes going over twice the speed their reaction time can handle and being a danger to everyone around them

I think the concept of ebikes is really fucking cool though, and I can't wait to see where the tech will go.
Now they just need to fix the laws to allow higher wattages and top speeds outside of populated areas.

>>1066899
Combustion engines are loud and stinky, e bikes are sold to the muh environment crowd.

>>1086150
>I don't understand all that hate against ebikes. I think they're marvellous for the masses. What's wrong with them?

The old, familiar forces of ignorance and elitism.

The most common complaint you hear from people is that people on electric bikes are "rude" (something that nobody on a regular bike has ever been accused of). The second most common? That E-bikes are too loud - as loud as, if not louder, than a gasoline-powered motorcycle. Yes, this is seriously what people say. Whether or not they actually think it is up for debate, because to me, it appears that they're not doing any thinking at all. They're certainly not riding these bikes.

There's an article in the latest issue of BRAIN (July 15th) about a poll conducted by Jefferson County in Colorado where they collected people's negative impressions of the idea of E-bikes being ridden in state parks. One of the questions was "Have you noticed any E-bikes being ridden in the park today?", to which only "very few" people replied "Yes" - which is pretty amusing because, as the article reveals, the pollsters had arranged it so that there was a stream of E-bikes being ridden past the polling station. People don't even know what an E-bike is - but they know that they don't like them.

>>1086227
>Most bike shops build their business around moving product quickly. It's an industry where inventory loses value relatively quickly, because every new wave of shit/each year's model drives down the price of the old.

No. The margin on bicycles is extremely small - you can't pay your rent and your employees by selling bikes. Where independent bike dealers actually make most of their money is by selling things like water bottles and powerbars, along with maintenance and repair services.

E-bikes actually have a much higher margin than a conventional bike, which makes them attractive to IBD's.

>E-bikes are new, niche, and expensive. They just don't sell quickly enough for shops to feel comfortable carrying them.

This was true many years ago, but it's not true any longer. E-bikes have been selling very well through IBD's over the past couple years. The BPSA is making some noise this month about how this year in particular has been unexpectedly excellent for E-bikes. The amount of E-bikes being imported to NA annually is hovering around a quarter-million - and rising.

>>1089707
>I see all kind of cheap 500 dollar ones.
>Are the cheap ones with a 250 watt outage really that bad?

Yes. Cheap E-bikes are destined to break in a number of unpleasant ways, including burning your house down because of a bad battery. They really should be avoided.

Frankly, any E-bike that's under $1,000 should be treated with suspicion. There have been some attempts by major companies to make a decent bike under the $1,000 price point, but it's tough to do, mainly because building a safe battery that will actually last a while is expensive - most cheap bikes that don't have bad batteries are saving cost by cutting quality in other areas.

A reasonable budget for a good quality E-bike these days is around $1,500 - $2,000.

>>1090578
I was mostly looking at these.

Im sure the cheaper ones will need more fixing up, but I didnt hear anything about bad batteries. I don't want to touch walmart and amazon ebikes, which is what I assume youre talking about? It seems as though the more reputable ones give you a decent motor, frame and battery with a bicycle shaped object attached as a bonus, way better deal than buying the motor and battery and bike all separately as marked up specialty items. Im trying to decide whether its better to get a cheap entry level one and fix it up if I like it (speedwise, being fat, battery drain in winter, whether I end up using it, maybe it gets stolen in my ghetto ass neighborhood) lots of shit can go wrong that would have nothing to do with the 'quality' of the bike. And I feel like getting an entry level one first is better- these things are cheap enough to fix or replace pretty easily it seems.

Or, if I go all in on a 1500 dollar one, I may have less issues, but I also may be buying overkill. The 2 more expensive ones have 500-750 watts that will power up hills I will never see in my flatland city, and instead of giving me a bigger battery, they give me a more powerful motor, which I fear is wasted on me. I also fear they may teach me less about bike repair, haha.

https://sondors.com/collections/north-america/products/sondors-thin-us-only-preorder

https://shop.juicedbikes.com/collections/e-bikes/products/crosscurrentair

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radcity-electric-commuter-bike?variant=27902381121

>>1090568
The most common complaints I see, against off road e-bikes, is that they're just for lazy people and destroy trails. They don't understand that you can still get a workout on an e-bike and that an extra 250w isn't going to do shit to the trails.

From on road riders the biggest concern seems to be about safety because they think that it's only 50 year old ultra casuals on 2kw bikes.

>>1066809
The one with two riders, three wheels (not including) a flywheel, and that is recumbent style in terms of aerodynamics. also some kind of CVT and dick breaks for maximum meme

>>1090631
>workout
Ever notice how the only people who use that word are fat? But hey, e-bikes, so, of course it would be.

>>1090727
Are you trying to imply that I'm fat? I can assure you I'm far from it.

>>1090729
Im fat and I want an e-bike. I'll gladly validate him.

Hell, I hope he goes around stalking people who ride ebikes and murdering them in their sleep.

>>1090631
>The most common complaints I see, against off road e-bikes, is that they're just for lazy people and destroy trails.

Yeah. The lazy people argument is hilarious to me because, well, who gives a shit? Not everyone is a serious cyclist, nor do they need to be.

The "E-bikes destroy trails" thing is, as far as I understand, completely without evidence. People who already hate E-bikes anyway simply have (by pure coincidence!) a funny feeling that E-bikes wreak some sort of unspecified havoc on dirt and rocks that are otherwise immune to the ravages of normal, foot-powered bike tires.

>>1090589

The phenomenon of bad E-bike batteries is not widely advertised, for obvious reasons, but they exist and are either an irritating headache (due to being faulty and requiring a costly and time-wasting replacement) or a threat to life and limb (when they burn down your house). Setting malfunctions aside, a cheap battery simply won't last as long (in terms of lifetime performance) or take you as far. My advice is: don't skimp on the battery. It's the most expensive part of the bike, but also the most important. Without a good battery, you just have a heavy bicycle.

>I don't want to touch walmart and amazon ebikes, which is what I assume youre talking about?

Not just those, but really any cheap bikes from anywhere. There are a thousand factories in China that will build you a bike to any spec you want, and the vast majority of them are more than happy to build a complete piece of shit. Their attitude about this is: Give us the money and we'll give you the bike. An attention to quality and safety is not a feature of this transaction.

>And I feel like getting an entry level one first is better- these things are cheap enough to fix or replace pretty easily it seems.

Why spend $1,000 on a bike you'll eventually have to throw away, only to buy a better one later? I mean, what do you want to do here - spend $1500 now or $2500 over the course of a year?

The expensive things that break an E-bike, by the way, are both A) not things that you are going to be able to fix yourself (the motor and the battery), and B) the things that are affected most by the cost cuts needed to keep the bike's price low. The actual bicycle itself is perfectly fine 99% of the time, it's the other parts that you're sacrificing when you buy cheap.

(Cont.)

>>1090589
>>1090756

(Cont.)

There is really no such thing as overkill with an E-bike. The law mandates that E-bikes are restricted to a certain speed and wattage which is irritatingly low. You want to get a bike that gives you the maximum power allowed.

However, you have to be careful here - in the US (which is where I assume you are), each state (and even some cities!) have their own speed and power limits which you must be careful to stay inside of. One of the bikes you linked goes 28 mph - which is illegal in most of the 50 states. Don't buy an illegal bike - your chance of being caught out by the police is practically zero (most police don't even know what an E-bike is, let alone what the law says about them), but if it happens you will not be happy about it.

The most common scenario here goes something like this: You're out riding around one day and some asshole hits you with his car. The cops show up to assess the accident. They discover that your bike is illegal and slap you with a huge fine, or maybe even some more serious consequences depending on the situation. Your insurance company makes the same discovery and disowns you. So you're out a bike, you're probably injured, you're paying thousands in restitution to the state, and nobody will help you pay for it. It's not a great result. Try to avoid it.

Anyway, as for the bikes you linked:

>Sondors

A lot of people think they look cute, and the price tag is attractive. Unfortunately, these bikes are complete dogs.

>CrossCurrent

This one seems fine for your purposes. The 350W motor is a drag, but since you live in a flat place you may not actually care. However, this is the 28 mph bike that may not be legal where you are.

>RadCity

Another dog. Everything on that bike is cheap, and it's heavy (60 lbs...a bike should weigh around 40). Avoid.

These bikes may be out of your price range, but they are what I generally suggest to people as an example of a quality E-bike: https://www.prodecotech.com/

>>1090760
> You want to get a bike that gives you the maximum power allowed.

No I dont. I want a short distance flat land city commuter

>The expensive things that break an E-bike (the motor and the battery),

This is the opposite of what I read everywhere else. All I got from your post was: "Spend 3000 dollars, because that's what an e-bike costs" when thats the price of a fucking scooter or motorcycle.

>you're paying thousands in restitution to the state, and nobody will help you pay for it.

Jesus dude. Do you live in constant fear? I was stopped by a few cops for riding at night on a honda ruckus a few years back. He didn't know the law, he didnt even ask for registration, he didnt even notice the rim was bent 3 inches and I had no insurance or registration. He didnt notice all the dents and missing bolts, the broken headlight, we shook hands and parted ways. The world is not out to get you. Bicycle laws are muddled to all hell and cops are just as confused as we are

>Unfortunately, these bikes are complete dogs.

Pro's review entry level bikes like they arent entry level bikes. They take them up steep hills and turn around and say they wont commute in a flat city. Be more specific or get bent.

>The 350W motor is a drag

There you fucking go again. You fucking enthusiasts are the worst.

>>RadCity Everything on that bike is cheap
>prodecotech

God, it's like playing ping pong. One forum says one thing and another says the opposite. One thread will say rad city is the greatest and another will say its a bicycle shaped object. I research prodecotech and find tons of stuff saying "They tend to use lower-end components and their frame designs tend to be a little dated. They are priced pretty cheap, though!"

I get the feeling any of them would be fantastic for a casual like me who's needs are little. All of them seem to be above walmart quality and would do fine as a city commuter.

>>1090767
(cont)

Also, I could only find a couple news stories about fires. Maybe 5 or six in the last few years. With millions of ebikes sold every year, and no brands were even mentioned in any of the articles. For all we know, the bikes or batteries may have been old, they may have been megacheap ones, hell, they may have been super high end bikes or /diy/ jobs. There's just no info and it doesnt seem like as big of an issue as you make it out to be.

Yes go buy electric bike and use it as your commuter. Easiest 5k a thief will ever make

>>1090767
Cops stopping you and fining you randomly on the street isn't going to happen. The chances for that are lower than winning in lottery. However as anon already said earlier if you get into an accident on an illegal bike you're fucked beyond belief. Worst case scenario you end up paying out for all damages to all parties involved AND the fines for riding an illegal bike.

Let's assess the situation for your average accident. Someone hits you while you're riding. They're at fault. One of you calls the cops and they show up. They end up figuring out that your E-bike is illegal to ride on the road. Now instead of you getting a new bike from the insurance of whoever hit you you're absolutely fucked. First the cops hit you with fines and all the consequences of riding a vehicle that's not legal on the roads, varies wildly depending on your location. Then the other guys insurance company finds out that you were on an illegal bike. They won't give you a penny for your bike because illegal. In worst case scenario, depending on where you are living you might even be determined to be at fault for the accident if you're on an illegal bike. And as it's illegal you don't have insurance and are liable for all damages to the other person and their vehicle.

>>1090767
but a cheap rigid 90's hardtail with rack mounts, then buy a £400-500 250w hub conversion kit, and that's good enough for 15.5mph EU limit or remove it and it's pretty good for 20mph with minimal effort,


I recently just bought a hub kit and holy crap it's fun, i was skeptical at the low power but it's more than enough as it can easily drag my fat ass up a steep hill and keep up with traffic.

>>1090893
You're assuming a lot of things. Most courts wouldnt know what to make of the law, and any fines would easily be contested and dropped. In my area (Massachusetts) they dont even define legal wattages, the law is a fucking joke. There are ebike shops around and the law dont care. In general, the only people who get in trouble are tryhard faggots who try to get maximum wattages like 750-1500 watts where they essentially become motorcycles or scooters- which is too powerful for something as under-built as a bicycle. They ignore the 25 mph limit that the law does not fuck around with. But even with those getting in trouble seems rare to me. If I wanted it legal I could just get a moped sticker which is only 35 bucks and doesnt require much red tape at all- only a license- no insurance or inspection is fantastic.

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>>1066876
>>1066878
>>1066899

>mfw 26 states don't require insurance for 50cc mopeds
>mfw four states (FL, MT, NH, WA) don't even require insurance for anything with less than four wheels

Honestly you can buy a 50cc or equivalent moped today and get around even easier than e-bikes. They top out around 30-35 mph, which happens to be the limit for moped classification in most states anyways. Registration is like $30 a year, so it's a pittance, but they allow you to do so much more than an e-bike while costing about as much used.

>>1091002
I was always under the impression that most places in America don't require vehicle insurance at all, is that not true or are motorbikes different?

As for mopeds compared to e-bikes, the latter can use cycle lanes (some of which are alternate routes to roads, not just alongside them) and go offroad some places that mopeds can't legally. Along with registration costs you also have fuel and maintenance costs could end up being higher too.

>>1091026
All states require liability insurance for automobiles (insurance company pays if you damage property or injure someone), but the minimum coverage varies. Most states require the same kind of insurance for motorcycles, and only half only require insurance for 50cc mopeds.

I think the viability of either transport method depends heavily on your locality. Many American cities don't have developed bike paths, and if they do, they don't offer much more mobility than roads. Most college campuses have good road access, and any campus area that's too dense to access by motor vehicle will probably ban riding bikes, too. Fuel is almost a non-issue in the US, since most 50cc scooters get ~100 mpg, or you can buy an electric scooter anyways.

Any transportation decision is a compromise. However, given the added expense, weight, and complexity of an e-bike for a minor improvement in ease-of-use, I can't justify having one as a bicycle or moped alternative.

>>1091038
>I think the viability of either transport method depends heavily on your locality.
Definitely. A moped sounds like a great idea there in America but it's not as appealing over here in the UK. Not only are there significant costs involved but living in a town bordered by plenty of countryside means there are many places I can ride that I wouldn't be able to on a moped (legally, and the noise of a moped will attract attention).

>>1091002
you wish, thats the case for a moped in my state (mass), but my state now defines scooters as limited use vehicles which needs a mc licence, tax on purchase, inspection yearly, insurance, and a registration fee.The law is catching up. Scooters are great but they have more red tape. Actual mopeds dont exist anymore, no one fucking makes them.

My RMV has confirmed they recognize a federal law on low speed electric bicycles as not requiring registration, insurance, inspection or a license. All I have to do is buy it and get a helmet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Massachusetts

>>1091044
for country roads a 125cc motorcycle would be better than an ebike, and insurance is like £100-200 a year, if new no MOT for the first 3 years, a licence is £35, a CBT is £100, you can get gloves, lid and a jacket for like £150.

also when it comes to selling it a 125cc will hold it's value more than an ebike due to people needing them to get an A1/A2/A licence,


Or if you're up for bridleways most of the time then an Ebike would be an okay option, and you can always get away with taking them on footpaths

>>1066809
>What's the current best e-bike shit out there?
Bosch mid drive

/thread

So, I was thinking of getting a sondors but Im starting to realize how much they suck (battery charging is user timed and wont auto-stop I mean jesus wtf)

I was going to do a /diy/. Front hub seems the easiest to do, is there a downside to doing a front wheel drive setup? I know it's less efficient than a mid drive or a rear hub, but efficiency and power doesnt concern me.

>>1091432
Additional weight up front is going to affect the handling more than in the rear, forks generally can't handle as much power, there's less traction on the front wheel so it's more likely to slip and if that happens it's more likely to result in a crash than with the rear wheel, you can't do donuts or wheelies, and probably some things I'm forgetting.

On the plus side AWD is pretty neat, it's a bit simpler and easier to do, it'll probably be cheaper, and you won't be limited to 7 speed freewheels.

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>>1091444
So when you say too much power, what do you think? Im increasingly going down /diy/ and its pretty easy to get lots of power for very little money. I was linked someones build and he put a 850 watt front hub on his bike with a cheap 16 AMP battery somewhere in there.

That seems pretty powerful to me and maybe he built that for hills. I definitely want to build something with throttle control so I'm not on full power- I'm hoping 250 watts wont make me skid if I set it to that.

>>1091451
>So when you say too much power, what do you think?
It's hard to say. Pretty much any frame will be fine with a 500w motor out back but there are forks out there that won't like even 250w. It'll probably be fine as long as you don't stick it on a spindly road bike fork, stick for stuff designed for mountain bikes.

250w probably won't cause any traction issues on roads but you'll want to avoid anything loose like gravel or sand/dirt on paved surfaces. Like I said though there aren't many advantages to front wheel motors and the ease of fitting and price differences aren't massive.

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Waiting for this one to hit the market.

You could import the electric bikes they have in Japan. But I think they are a bit different from what you want.

>>1066809
I've considered building an e-bike now that I start at a new job next month. My commute will be 10 miles one way.

I'm thinking getting a beater DH bike and slamming a BBSHD in it.

Should I do it?

>>1094749
A DH frame likely won't have room in the frame for a battery so you'd need to backpack it.

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>>1094501
looks promising annon
the future is now

>>1094501

da fuck is the motor ?

>>1095617
Rear hub, probably only 250w.

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Soon there will be a company offering lightweight micro-turbine range extenders.

https://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/10/wrightspeed-unveils-turbine-range-extender-for-medium-heavy-duty-electric-powertrains/

Energy density of hydrocarbons is always going to TRUMP batteries and the carbon output is negligible, but somehow I foresee libtards screeching about this.

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>>1095680
It has nothing to do with the environment.

that would be classified as a moped which would put you into all sorts of red tape (registration, licensing, inspection, insurance) and maybe bar you from using bike lanes and paths.

You may be right but it's the law that matters, and dont be so naive as to think it doesn't. The law constantly tries to tax and regulate the wheel, regulate what can or cant use the roads and when. Try rollerblading in a bike lane, a scooter, try putting a motor on a bike and see how many times you get pulled over. I wish I could slap a hub motor on a kick bike (pictured) and cruise to work, but cops would pull me over for not having pedals. It's stupid but its the shitty world we live in.

Electric bikes are protected because people perceive them as weak, and similar to the power of a bicycle. People understand that they have a right to ride a bicycle and electric bikes fall under that umbrella of protection. Laws were crafted in their favor as a result.

That motor will stick out like a sore thumb, anyone looking at it wont think cute low speed motorized bicycle, they will think "diy dirtbike leaks oil goes 40 mph thing"

>the new design weighs in at about 250 lbs

because that is no tiny micro-engine. And it sounds 5 times more expensive to boot.

>>1095617
rear hub 1000 watts
dont know if it will be legal in many places

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>>1095694
Range extender makes it a "goped." And the laws regarding those varies by jurisdiction.

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>>1095694
But yeah maybe the example I provided wasnt the best but you can make a micro turbine somewhat quiet and because it doesnt directly power the wheels and instead works like a hybrid car and charges the battery that might get around the laws. Think about how much energy a bic lighter has versus an iphone battery. There is an iphone battery charger that runs off of a microturbine so if you plugged that into your e-bike surely that doesnt necessarily make it a moped.

Actually wtf am i talking about. HYDROCARBON FUEL CELLS are the way to get around the gay moped laws. Pic related.

>>1072145
had a simson when I was a kid. Good shite it was. First ride already got ticketed for not having a helmet, not having my moped license and riding uninsured/unregistered vehicle. Pops gave me a black eye.

>>1095713
show me a kit or howto for any of this. What would that actually do for performance and how much does it cost? That thing pictures puts out 4 watts and charges 1 amp in 2 hours. So plugging it into an ebike over a 40 minute bike ride would give you an extra mile or two maybe? And does that work out better than putting that 40-50 bucks into just buying a bigger battery with more watt hours? Maybe if it put out more watts and we had some kind f quick charging system, but that sounds expensive to me. If it ends up being some fancy 4-5k system then who gives a shit, of course rich people will get nice toys.

I see clickbait articles every day for the next new thing but it's whats in the store that matters.

>>1095711
In my area they cant be ridden at night (but still need blinkers, tail lights and headlights), it blows. They got classified with mini-bikes and received the hatred of some old white dude who wants dem kids to keep it down ya hear?

>>1095757
Because he is a special snowflake that is triggered by the theory of climate change and wants it for the sole purpose of sticking it to evul libruhls

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>>1094501
I was going to buy a prebuilt until I started looking at accessories and replacement parts.

>>1095769
this company seems to be moving in the right direction for ebikes.
affordable too.

>>1066809
I just spent $300 on a 1000W direct drive rear hub motor kit and an 48V and 18 amp/hour rack of sealed lead acid batteries to start to figure this whole e-bike thing out.

It's not quite as swish as a Li-Ion kit, but if I enjoy riding it, I can upgrade the batteries later.

>>1095769
That's relatively standard from what I've seen. The lithium ion batteries are the most expensive part.

>>1095694
>>the new design weighs in at about 250 lbs
lol, the 1000W motor that I'm putting on my bike weighs 25.

oilfags BTFO

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>>1095757
>some old white dude
im triggered nigger (jk)

>show me a kit or howto for any of this
Get a hydrocarbon fuel cell big enough to charge your e-bike.. or a seperate microturbine. If the "range extender" is a generic electrical generator then i dont think riding around with one hooked up to your e-bike is going to get you into trouble unless libs go super full sjw fascist. Obviously there arent any plans on the internet but there would be a market for it and something I might try in the future if i have the time or money.

The bottom line is that hydrocarbons are always going to have more energy density than batteries and are arguably safer and less harmful to the environment in some ways.

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>>1095764
What do you think caused the mid evil warming period? The danger is that we are overlooking some other phenomenon that is warming the planet and also the carbon tax is authoritarian and unethical. If saudi arabia started burning hydro carbon at some huge giagantic rate then obviously that could have an effect but for transportation there is NO reason to focus on electric energy so badly except for political reasons which is gay and dishonest. Transportation, even by super libjew standards, is quoted to be only 10 percent of global warming (probably less) so mucking around with toxic lithium batteries that overheat is unnecessary and futile.

Some vids you might get a kick out of:

Randall Carlson hippie Phd climate scientist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wAKVz_lKv0

Lindybiege aka Lloyd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZHnjDJpkVc

And I think that alternatives like solar and wind energy, even nuclear, are great initiatives but I cant stand the bad science on the left and the bias they have for political reasons. Scientists can lose their job if they are skeptical of the narrative which is dangerous for science in general. And also I dont think that taxing carbon is ethical and its authoritarian, but if I think that federal subsidies to increase alternative energy development is ethical. Its like the difference between trying to teach a child by punishing them versus positive reinforcement. Animals exhale carbon dioxide so putting a tax on it seems orwellian also and another solution would be not cutting down rain forests but no body talks about that and there are just a lot of factors and dishonesty which seems to be used for egotistical authoritarian reasons.

Although there might be a reason to stop people from emitting carbon so much but the fact that people are so emotional about it makes it seem less credible.

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>>1096029
>taxing carbon is ethical
meant unethical, although I concede that if the science was better I might actually believe Al gore and whatnot but a bunch of angry sjws and vids of polar bears makes me not trust them at all. And of course the best method for controlling carbon output is to provide technological alternatives instead of punishing people. And also transportation is incredibly insignificant in climate change although stupid libs would have you believe otherwise.

Cow farts make up 51 percent of global warming according to the regressive authoritarian fascis-libs themselves but no one is going after the agro mafia.

>>1096030
1. You only knee-jerk against a carbon tax because unaccounted externalizations is the most ready source of industrial profit and has been the whole time profit was a thing.

2. Transport is about 28% of the energy use in the US. That's very significant especially when the toxic byproducts of those internal combustion engines are concentrated in our urban areas where people are actually living.

3. The purpose of a carbon tax is to incentivise businesses to provide those technological solutions, because if left to their own devices they will leave the world an ash covered husk. Democratic regulation of our businesses is how American society balances the purely corrupt greed of our corporate businesses.

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>>1096107
>Democratic regulation of our businesses
IS CANCER MOB RULE. CARBON TAX IS AUTHORITARIAN PUNISHMENT WHILE FEDERAL SUBSIDIZATION IS POSITIVE ENCOURAGEMENT. WE NEED LESS FUCKING BOOTLICKING KEKS THAT LET BIG DADDY GOVERNMENT FUCK THEM IN THE ASS. DECENTRALIZING THE POWER STRUCTURES IS BENEFICIAL TO US ALL.

>28% of the energy use in the US
NOT 28 PERCENT OF GLOBAL WARMING AND THE AIR THAT COMES OUT OF NEW CARS IS CLEANER THAN THE AIR GOING IN THANKS TO FILTERS AND CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. BATTERIES ARE TOXIC AND A FIRE HAZARD.

FUCK THIS BOOTLICKING BULLSHIT. YOURE JUST GIVING THE GLOBALISTS ANOTHER WAY TO FUCK YOU IN THE ASS. TECHNOLOGY SHOULD BE ENOUGH OF AN INCENTIVE IN ITSELF OR OTHERWISE PAY SOMEONE TO NOT POLLUTE BUT DONT PUNISH THEM.

>>1096107
>You only knee-jerk against a carbon tax because unaccounted externalizations is the most ready source of industrial profit and has been the whole time profit was a thing.
Btw i have no self interests invested in the petrol industry i just fucking cannot stand authoritarian bullshit and CO2 is being leveraged as a way to control people already. Federal subsidies would be just as effective without unethically controlling people. The only time I could see carbon output being an issue is if a country starts outputting it at some astronomical level and then TREATIES would be the solution. In western countries with free market then subsidization should be the primary way of controlling emissions. If you give people money not to burn petrol products that has the same effect on taxes and the economy without being authoritarian assholes.


ANNNNNNNND biofuels do not increase net atmospheric carbon because the plants trap the carbon in the first place. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT TRANSPORTATION EMISSIONS CAN BE FILTERED AND THEY ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT PART OF GLOBAL WARMING EVEN ACCORDING TO REGRESSIVE LEFTISTS.

>>1096029
>>1096030
>>1096107
>>1096112
>don't listen to scientists and professionals! Listen to my poorly argued internet shitpost! I want to live in a society where we shun and laugh at the smartest of us, and where caution is thrown to the wind just to make a quick buck! Go to /pol/ instead of getting a Phd!


Gas motors make bikes go too fast and be too heavy to be safe. You need to build a stronger frame for that to be safe and anything more than a /diy/ trainwreck. A spindly bicycle should be meant for no more than 25 mph. If you want gas, get a scooter or motorcycle from honda, there are plenty of options out there. They have big heavy tires and solid frames that can handle that kind of torque and speed. No one even makes mopeds any more in the western world, the pedals did nothing and motors became to powerful even within lawful limits. Go to /o/.

>>1096160
BRUUUUUUH DO YOU REALLY WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE SCIENTISTS ARENT ALLOWED TO BE SKEPTICAL OF MAINSTREAM OPINIONS? HOW MANY SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN SHUNNED BY THEIR PEERS FOR BEING "CLIMATE DENIERS?" THAT IS DANGEROUS FOR SCIENCE. THE POINT IS I DONT FUCKING KNOW WHETHER CLIMATE CHANGE IS BS OR NOT BECAUSE OF ALL THE EMOTIONAL LIBTARD BIAS! I FUCKING HATE THAT SHIT AND THATS EXACTLY BECAUSE I WANT LOGIC AND REASON TO SUCCEED ABOVE ALL. JUST BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER TELLS YOU EVIL PETROL COMPANIES ARE TO BE BLAMED DOESNT MAKE IT TRUE. THE WORLD GOT EXTREMELY HOT DURING THE MIDEVIL AGES AND NO ONE KNOWS WHY. COULD THAT ALSO BE HAPPENING NOW BUT SCIENTISTS ARE MISSING IT BECAUSE OF THEIR BIASED HATE FOR CORPORATIONS?

Also, a fucking EBIKE with a battery ANNNNNNDDDDD a range extender, either a hydrocarbon fuel cell, or microturbine, WOULD BE OBJECTIVELY THE OPTIMAL CONFIGURATION.

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>>1096112
Pouring billions of dollars into oil companies and other large businesses isn't "decentralizing power structures". Multinational corporations ARE power structures. Real democratic regulation that you decry as "cancer mob rule" is as decentralized as it gets, Anon. Grassroots movements, like Obama (though a hybrid) and then Bernie's campaign(though killed in the womb by Dem corruption), are the truest manifestations of decentralized power structures that exist. You aren't making any sense.

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>>1096188
fucking hell, please stop posting

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>>1096160
>bikes should be meant for no more than 25mph

This is legit, especially without any suspension.

My plan after this initial e-bike/moped is to build an electric motorcycle from the stripped down frame of some 80s or 90s jap bike. I think I can get one built out that'll be fast enough to be worthwhile.

>>1096188
It is objective stupidity to transport an average of two tons of steel, an average of 26 miles each day to move a person to a workplace and back.

>>1096107
>You only knee-jerk against a carbon tax because unaccounted externalizations is the most ready source of industrial profit and has been the whole time profit was a thing.
Fun fact, property rights solve all negative externalities.


>Transport is about 28% of the energy use in the US
We should really get on the extended range electric wagon. Physics has known the best answer for around 100 years.

>the toxic byproducts of those internal combustion engines
You mean those byproducts that are naturally solved with the nitrogen cycle, rain, algae, and time?
(regulations are in terms of pollutant per gallon instead of pollutant per mile, if regulations weren't made by people with mild intelligence instead of leftist/eco-terrorists, then we would have less pollution and wasted energy.)

>concentrated in our urban areas where people are actually living
They deserve it. Population centers were a mistake.

>The purpose of a carbon tax is to incentivize businesses to provide those technological solutions
The purpose of regulations don't matter.

>because if left to their own devices they will leave the world an ash covered husk.
So become a land owner and use property rights to solve the problem.
OR
Buy land that has natural resources on/under it and refuse to sell. Stop being a statist and use liberty to solve your problems.

>Democratic regulation of our businesses is how American society balances the purely corrupt greed of our corporate businesses.
You can not be corrupt if your power was not granted by the government. Think for a moment instead of using slogans.

>>1096160
>Go to /pol/ instead of getting a Phd!
But anon, phd's are worthless. Masters are only worth it for certain degrees like chemistry.
Stop fellating acedemia.

>Gas motors make bikes go too fast and be too heavy to be safe
Not if they don't drive the bike directly.

>A spindly bicycle should be meant for no more than 25 mph.
... 25mph is the minimum speed a bike should be going if it's on the road.

>If you want gas, get a scooter or motorcycle from honda, there are plenty of options out there.
Don't be a fucking moran.


EXTENDED RANGE ELECTRIC
A generator, gas tank, gas, and small overflow battery are lighter than a stack of batteries and offers more range.
- engines become more efficient the smaller they are
- gas is about 120 times more energy dense (by mass) than lipo batteries
- a generator can be kept at it's most efficient rpm
- the power output only needs to be slightly more or less than the average rate of power consumption
- gas stations exist, battery swap stations don't
etc etc etc

>>1096209
The entire concept of "land ownership" is Captialist Statism, you lolbertarian faggot.

>>1096213
>gas is more energy dense than batteries
LiPo batteries aren't entirely consumed upon use. This comparison is literally retarded.

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>>1096220
OK, so what? The electricity held within them is.

So you either use renewables to make electricity and store it in inefficient battery powered vehicles, or you use the energy for fuel synthesis. Otherwise, your argument is fundamentally flawed.
The increased efficiency of extended range electric makes the entire process either more efficient or a wash depending on the numbers and efficiency ratings you use.
So let's assume that the amount of energy used is the same either way, you're still backing the inferior option.


>>1096219
Ownership exists independent of the existence of a state. Stop fetishizing chairs.

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>>1096227
Yeah, so the weight of the batteries is more akin to an engine block or other durable medium for the system of transmitting chemical energy to spinning wheels than to the weight of a consumable product like gasoline. The only real barriers to EV is the necessary infrastructure investment and the political drag from the people with sunk-cost in the gasoline infra investment. When we hit the tipping point, and we will, gasoline will be obsolete instead of merely harmful and deprecated.
>>1096227
>Muh land ownership isn't a myth invented by Monarchs who literally believed that they were God's chosen leaders.
k. Land ownership is violence and has history. We'll see how that fantasy works out for you in the future, Kulak.
>stop fetishizing chairs
What?

>>1096234
>Yeah, so the weight of the batteries is more akin to an engine block or other durable medium for the system of transmitting chemical energy to spinning wheels than to the weight of a consumable product like gasoline
If you're talking about a full sized engine that has to be able to meet the demands of a vehicle at any given time, you have a point.

Ext. range electric doesn't have that fault. The generator only needs to be large enough to produce a somewhat more power than the average power draw of the vehicle. And unlike traditional engines, the generator can always be at the most efficient rpm.
Generator + a couple dozen lbs of batteries + gas are lighter than any battery stack capable of meaningful distances.
You've got more energy, and less weight.

>The only real barriers to EV is the necessary infrastructure investment
And the superior alternative of extended range electric.

>the political drag from the people with sunk-cost in the gasoline infra investment
If you mean lobbying for prohibition of alternatives, you would have a point. If you mean lobbying against prohibition of the free market, you're a faggot.

>When we hit the tipping point, and we will, gasoline will be obsolete instead of merely harmful and deprecated.
Energy density and long term storage says you're full of shit.


>Muh land ownership isn't a myth invented by Monarch
The earliest you could argue for it's (meaningful) existence is the beginning of horticulture. Predates monarchs by a fair bit.

>Land ownership is violence and has history
So? Causus beli don't stretch back forever. The sin is always present, but retribution loses legitimacy with time.

>We'll see how that fantasy works out for you in the future
Property rights have worked out pretty well for the past couple hundred years... Things have pretty much only been fucked up when they were violated/disregarded by the state.

>What?
The marxist meme of alienation and not being able to see yourself in your work.

>>1096243
You don't get it. I'm an anarchist, not a Marxist.

Personal property is fine. Nobody wants your toothbrush. Capitalist Empires based on bullshit paperwork (see every industrialist resource exploitation empire in the US) are not fine.

>>1096243
And I already refuted your

>muh energy density

Your comparison is specious.

>>1066949
as sad as your own personal anecdote is, it alone doesnt justify bastardising the cycling industry and even further endangering fraught relationships with motorists

>>1067165
this is the absolute crux of the issue. E-bike degenerates go on about how "at least you're getting exercise when you want to", literally every e-biker i have seen or met has beeen riding the thing full assist full throttle all the time. stop kidding yourselves that you want an e-bike for any other reason than making cycling 'easier' for yourselves

>>1071908
then why not get a motorbike? the whole point of cycling is transport whilst improving your fitness. The problem with E-bikers like you is that your bring a driver mindset to cycling, which is something which is definitely a negative

>>1072152
because when you cycle under your own power, and do it regularly, you develop an understanding of how to ride, road positioning, pacing, and all the other things which combine to make someone a safer, fitter and more complete cyclist. If you just hop from your car onto an E-bike without the years of riding which have build up your fitness and road skills, you will ride the same way as you would drive. Thus you are a motorist with less power rather than an assisted cyclist.

>>1072204
It is like any hobby or interest. The more time you spend doing it, the more you learn about it. The more you learn about it, the better you get at finding the best/safest/fastest/etc. way to do it. The more you do this, the more you start to resent people who have not invested as much time as you trying to tell you how to do things, because inevitably they are wrong and have not invested the time to know that they are wrong or why.

People say "muh taking it way too seriously", but that is really just a way of admitting that you are a casual.

>>1072311
I can do my 20km commute in half the time it takes to drive during peak hour on a non electric road bike.
Sounds like you are just unfit mate

>>1096227
You're still ignoring why gas powered bicycles are not as popular and are mostly fringe /diy/ projects. Generating your own power needs oil, grease, fuel injection systems,coolers, starters, batteries as well. Using just a battery SIMPLIFIES what is meant to be a simple light use vehicle. There are other reasons as well, try and sound them out try hard.

>>1090568
>ignorance and elitism

ignorance is thinking that letting a bunch of absolutely green cyclists have the speed and acceleration that seasoned riders have spent years acquiring is a good thing.

my experience here in Sydney, Australia (where e-bikes are legally limited to 250w/25kmh) is as follows: dithery old people who dont have any situational awareness; fat middle aged businessmen who want to be boy racers and feel as virile as they did 20 years ago but dont want to put in the effort to get fit; bogans who have lost their licenses and are riding some unlimited Chinese piece of shit at 40km/h with the same reckless abandon that lost them their license in the first place; and fucking south americans who are riding DIY jobs which look closer to IED's than bicycles.

Being a quite fit roadie it is often the case that i pass e-bikers, and they just dont know how to handled being overtaken. It is like the regular Strava commuting warrior butthurt but turned up to 11, and quite often it results in some pretty dangerous manouvres.

>>1090752
e bikes put a lot more direct and immediate torque through the back wheel than most normal riders would, leading to increased digging-in of the tyre to trails and thus fast wear.

>b-b-b-b-but good riders p-p-p-p-ut that much power down anyway

yeah sure but chances are they are fit enough not to be carrying around the extra 10-15kg of weight that most e-bikes do.

>>1096273
But anon, if you're an anarchist and not ancap, then you're either advocating forcing people to be paleoniggers or you're a communist or a hedonist.

Help me understand please. I am 99.9% sure I'm missing something.

>>1096274
>And I already refuted your "muh energy density"
You didn't.

extended range electric =/= pure combustion
Extended range electric that has been properly design is lighter than both pure combustion and electric.

>>1096313
If we're talking about factory e-bikes and not conversion then 250w isn't going to do any extra damage to a trail and they're also unlikely to be even 10kg heavier either (my hub motor conversion added about that, an integrated battery and BB motor is going to be a fair bit lighter).

I can put down far more power than a weak rider on an e-bike, whether they pedal or not, there are riders out there that can put out more power than me even on a low power e-bike, and a right fatty skidding up the trails is going to do more damage than a light rider on an e-bike. If you wanna ban e-bikes then fuck it, ban mountain biking altogether and leave it to the hikers to fuck up the trails.

>>1096323
If we're talking about strictly motor powered bikes then there are electric motorbikes out there that have ranges exceeding what most people would do in a day (100+ miles). Sure if you want to cruise down a motorway for 3 hours non-stop then a petrol bike is going to be the way to go for probably quite a while, otherwise an electric bike can fill the need. Eventually we'll see petrol stations having charging stations and charging quick enough that you would be able to do hundreds of miles in a day with just short stops to fill up, which you'll want to do anyway.

>>1096321
No.

Anarchism is a critical political philosophy that works to remove hierarchies (hierarchy and anarchy are antonyms), not advocating for some particular political system. Ancaps are libertarians who want to feel edgy and libertarians are the ideological descendants of French aristocrats who were trying to morally justify their whoring trips.

Communism is a political system that has seen great success in China and Russia and India more and more since they dropped British colonial rule. The vast majority of the people in the world lives under communist governments. They don't call themselves communist in this day and age, but that's only because stupid old white men with their hands on the nuclear football might get buttmad about it. A person can't be a communist, but a government can be. That whole idea is a fiction invented by cryptofacsists in the United States during the Cold War and beyond to criminalize their political opponents. Was that all not already clear or did you still believe that the US was a free country with a legitimately elected government?

Hedonism is a philosophical position where pleasure is the highest good. It is unrelated.

I think you are missing a lot of things, because it seems like you actually believed the screeds that the alt-right jackholes blogoblagged about politics for the past few years and didn't see them as the quaint white nationalist propagandizing that they were.

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Bump with a pricey ebike

>>1096374
>Anarchism is a critical political philosophy that works to remove hierarchies
I think that's anti-confucianism, if anything.
Almost everyone would describe anarchism as being the lack of a state and/or opposed to the existence of the state.

>Ancaps are libertarians who want to feel edgy
It would be the other way around.

>the ideological descendants of French aristocrats who were trying to morally justify their whoring trips.
The french revolution was a mistake.

>communism has done good
Compared to what, a colony drop?

>The vast majority of the people in the world lives under communist governments.
The vast majority of people in the world are also literally retarded...

>but that's only because stupid old white men with their hands on the nuclear football might get buttmad about it.
Please actually look up how nukes work in white countries. It's either a joint decision between the president and secretary of defense or Heisenberg's letter.

>A person can't be a communist, but a government can be.
Catholics don't exist, a person can't be catholic. Only a government can be catholic.

>cryptofacsists... Cold War... opponents
I assume that's a McCarthy meme. Look into the history of it for yourself. McCarthy was 100% right.

>Was that all not already clear or did you still believe that the US was a free country with a legitimately elected government?
There is a difference between actual evidence of historical soviet subversion and just baselessly blaming everything on russians.

> It is unrelated.
Disagree

>I think you are missing a lot of things
I believe the same of you.

>alt right
wew. Sorry for the wrongthink.

>white nationalist
Are you trying to imply that it is wrong? What do you expect after you spent the last 25 years championing identity politics and expressing anti-white sentiment?
Name one thing that is wrong with an ethnostate or nationism (note: not nationalism).

t. califag

>>1096345
>If we're talking about strictly motor powered bikes... do in a day
As it currently stands with ebikes, you are definitely right.

>Eventually we'll see petrol stations having charging stations and charging quick enough
I am skeptical of the first claim. They would almost certainly exist in only in parking lots.
As for the second claim, you severely overestimate the advances in battery development. Batteries aren't going to get much better.

If we are limiting ourselves to ebikes, then the logical progression would be a few standardized battery types that can be exchanged for a fee for a fully charged battery at places like target/walmart/costco. Think of it like a keg, you own it and it's almost certainly been used, but it's smarter to exchange it.
Batteries will never progress to the point where all they need are a few minutes, so this would always the best and most economical system.

If we are talking about normal vehicles, then the same applies. Only battery swaps would be a viably fast solution. That's why half the reason why I say extended range electric is objectively the best.


Also, I would rather have gasoline between my legs than a lipo bank.

>>1096428
>I am skeptical of the first claim. They would almost certainly exist in only in parking lots.
Well obviously not the small garages where there's only room to drive through, but there are plenty that have room for a couple of cars to park up. Also the larger service stations littered along motorways.

>As for the second claim, you severely overestimate the advances in battery development. Batteries aren't going to get much better.
Well a Tesla can fill its 300 mile range battery in as little as an hour. That requires their special charging station and tech in the car but it's certainly possible that a more standardised system could be implemented.

>a few standardized battery types that can be exchanged for a fee for a fully charged battery
I've heard this idea a few times but it really doesn't sound like a good one to me. I wouldn't want someone else's used battery especially as swapping it out wouldn't be a regular thing (charging at home/work would) so you could end up stuck with a crappy battery for a while.

>Batteries will never progress to the point where all they need are a few minutes
Not to fully charge, especially as capacities increase even further, but it's not like a few minutes worth of charge would be useless. Let's take the Tesla example and assume it's linear (I assume it would actually be faster at the beginning), that's 5 miles per minute.

>That's why half the reason why I say extended range electric is objectively the best.
Sure, but it's not like electric vehicles are or will always be inadequate for most people. Also there's the whole environmental thing, you can't run an ICE off renewable energy and whilst some electrical power stations still use fossil fuels they're more efficient.

>>1096446
>you can't run an ICE off renewable energy
That's where you're wrong bucko. We can even make jetfuel from seawater.
The problem is that purely chemical synthesis is inefficient compared to using biological and chemical synthesis.
You can turn solar energy into chemical energy. And the carbon cycle is 100% renewable.


http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.4719723?journalCode=rse&
From the abstract: Included in this analysis are the capital cost, operation and maintenance, and electrical generation cost for synthesizing jet fuel at sea using either ocean thermal energy conversion or nuclear power processes as the energy source. The results suggest that jet fuel could be produced at sea for $3 to $6/gal.

Chemical energy will always be king.

>>1096446
>whilst some electrical power stations still use fossil fuels they're more efficient.
Also you're wrong here. They're more cost effective, not more energy efficient. Actual joules per dollar is different than actual joules per theoretical joules.
You would be right if this was 1950, but as it currently stands modern engines are as (energy) efficient or more than coal turbine plants.

>>1096467
>They're more cost effective
Actually not even that any more. Those graph lines crossed roughly 2015 depending on your locality. Current US coal is more expensive per GW than renewable.

>>1096471
The comparison being made was between combustion engines and power plants.

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>>1096199
>like Obama (though a hybrid) and then Bernie's campaign(though killed in the womb by Dem corruption), are the truest manifestations of decentralized power structures that exist.

Are you a literal mouth breathing retard? The establishment has convinced you that the US has to be one big country with a powerful centralized authority. BUT A TRUE REPUBLIC would give more power to states. The presidency is a sham and itll never go away because every president just tries to give themselves more power.

The only way to combat this is to create alternatives to government online and just start doing things without (((THEIR))) permission. The government wants you to need them but we do, because at any time we could organize an alternative government with more LOCAL AUTHORITY.

Fucking hell somebody telling me that ONE MAN LEADING 300 MILLION PEOPLE is decentralized authority holy fucking shit lol you are retarded as fuck and that is why america is doomed.

EVERY STATE SHOULD BE A FUCKING COUNTRY. Like the way Europe is supposed to be although the EU has it's jew claws around all our throats.

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>>1096204
>It is objective stupidity to transport an average of two tons of steel, an average of 26 miles each day to move a person to a workplace and back.
Nigger we are going to be walking around in samus suits soon. Everybody wants a shell to protect them from the outside world.

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How the fuck can you niggers think that shaming skeptical scientists by calling them "climate deniers" is good for science? That creates bias and when people are afraid to challenge the status quo then dogmas form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wAKVz_lKv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al5SZnjZzgw

Climate Change was invented by the nazis lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0iwI4LZ5go

>>1096310
Youre the one butthurt anon because you are resisting technological advance. What good would our thumbs be if everyone just adhered to their own physical limitations?

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>>1096293
>you want an e-bike for any other reason than making cycling 'easier' for yourselves
so?

>>1096213
Nicely put but >>1096227 this makes me think you are an authoritarian mob rule commie. The family unit or your group of friends is the biggest a "commune" needs to be. The best way for humans to live would be in small communes of about 120 people that FREELY TRADE with eachother. Things like AI and 3D printers will decentralize production and services can be decentralized via the Uber model.

>>1096227
Oh shit I didnt realize you were making a point with the picture of Marx on his chair, should have read your post.

Ffucking shit my argument about communism >>1096494 should be for >>1096219

Fuck sorry my posts are so messy goddamnit.

>>1096234
How can property not exist if computers can be locked via cryptography? Any system can have an Admin. Therefor information in our Universe is inherently capitalistic. Who gets to control 3D printers in marx dystopia? What about the AI? Someone always gets to have the password.

>>1096492
Bruh this isnt a technological advance. We strapped motors to bikes like a century ago. This is just needlessly crowding cycling infrastructure with bad riders so companies can get a larger share of the transport market

>>1096503
A tiny little motor and battery pack is different than a motorcylce. Its like a hybrid.

And I know youre an elitist fred but a proper e-bike should be just as maneuverable as a reg bike and use the same paths. I know elitist like you will always hate newbs but they have to start somewhere and everyone is human and makes mistakes that does not mean they shouldnt be able to ride though. Grannies getting out on their e-bikes should be celebrated because theyre actually getting outside and being active instead of laying in bed and watching fake news.

>>1096489
No. States have been making laws about where people can legally take a piss. States should have less power if they are going to waste it on bullying trans people.

>>1096496
>How can property not exist if computers can be locked via cryptography? Any system can have an Admin. Therefor information in our Universe is inherently capitalistic. Who gets to control 3D printers in marx dystopia? What about the AI? Someone always gets to have the password.

Cool word salad, bro. You should get checked for schizophrenia. Makerspaces are Communism.

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>>1096520
You realize that there could be one state that is nice to trans people and another that is mean and you could live wherever you please? Trying to centrally control everyone is problematic because people dont have options then. And also just because city dwellers dont want big crowds with guns that is unfair to farmers protecting their ranch. And anyway im not going to change your mind because you seem like a bootlicking fag that gets off controlling people.

>>1096521
Yeah but if you lock a system with crypto then effectively you control it which is something that is inherent to computing. Commies literally want to make that illegal. Although youll come up with some contrarian bullshit, but my point still stands that our world is naturally a capitalist one.

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>>1096528
>muh gun control
Neoliberalism isn't leftist, you stupid fucking faggot. It was a right wing takeover of the Democratic party. Gun control is horseshit that the Establishment uses to waste time and justify lawyers' paychecks. You are so cucked into the Establishment's game and you don't even realize it!

>muh crypto = muh capitalism
You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Shut the fuck up.

>>1096556
Information systems can be controlled ie you can own a system by having the password, so then our universe is inherently capitalist.

And i brought up gun control because its an issue that city dwellers and rural folk disagree on but affect their lives in a major way and an argument against centralized authority. If there was more variance in the types of governments you could choose to live under then that would hedge against someone like trump coming in and being mean to trannies across the nation vs a localized govt like south carolina.

>>1096562
>Information systems can be controlled ie you can own a system by having the password, so then our universe is inherently capitalist.

Information is only considered capital because of military-industrial-complex legal protectionism.

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>>1096565
>Information is only considered capital because of military-industrial-complex legal protectionism.
False, one can design a system in a way that makes it impossible to access without a password thereby establishing that the user with the password is the owner of the system. This is inherent to computing so I would argue that our universe is intrinsically capitalistic.

Not to mention that humans, and monkeys will trade things of value for one another given the freedom to do so and only authoritarian power structures inhibit this. Even in the Soviet-Union there were illegal gambling rings and there is a thriving black market in North Korea, and today with crypto-currency trying to outlaw currency and trade is as futile as prohibiting mind altering substances.

Furthermore the free market does not dictate how one must organize their business so it is perfectly allowable for companies to exist where the workers control production, so I would postulate that a free market society is one which respects diverse individualistic economic wishes far more than a homogeneous oppressive marxist society. Additionally, a marxist society is catastrophic for artists and creative individuals because it forces them to work in an institutionalized manner whereas the current situation on the internet allows artists to work outside the 9-5 model through platforms such as patreon, bitcoin, and kickstarter. Also, alternative journalism would suffer in a marxist society because challenging the establishment would not be profitable.

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>>1096528
filthy commie

>>1096586
bakunin pls go

>>1096565
Whoever knows how to take, to defend, the thing, to him belongs property. What I have in my power, that is my own. So long as I assert myself as holder, I am the proprietor of the thing. I do not step shyly back from your property, but look upon it always as my property, in which I respect nothing. Pray do the like with what you call my property!

>>1096556
>Neoliberalism isn't leftist
Where have you been for the past 100 years?

>>1096608
>leftist not thirdwayist
>neoliberalism
>100 years old
Spot the millennial who just voted for the first time in 2016.

>>1096610
>voting

>>1096610
But anon, are you trying to tell me that fdr wasn't a neoliberal?

>>1096614
He wasn't though you massive retard. You're one of those politically illiterate types that doesn't even know what neoliberalism means, on par with the faggots from /pol/ that think neoliberal means people that are trans.

>>1096619
As far as I'm concerned those who are described as liberals but are not classical liberals are neoliberals. (inb4 that meaning of liberalism has been dead in america for 200 years)

>>1096624
its funny because libralism used to mean support for freedom but then it got hijacked and turned into liberty to be authoritarian.

>>1096491
nice youtube university bro. How many pages do you think you could write on climate change? 2? 12? 25? 100 pages? How long before you start repeating yourself and rambling? Excuse me while I take a piss all over your shitpost and refuse to listen to some dweeb online and continue listening to legitimate scientists. Anyone reading your post has only the potential to get dumber.

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Getting back to Op topic
25 mph around 1300 Dollars

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Here's another one
1500+ shipping

But motors and lipos don't cost nearly that much... Were ebikes that much of a scam before hipster faggots?

RARE BIKE POSTING

So I've been tryiong to decide whether to buy a /diy/ or a cheapish premade.

I can get one or the other for about 1,000 dollars and I could probably get a more powerful motor and a bigger battery on a /diy/ for about the same price. Ive also noticed /diy/ stuff sells for much less on craigslist and I bet it would be less likely to be eye-candy/bike theft bait.

Premades have one distinct advantage. They are usually built up for e-biking. Better tires,12 gauge spokes instead of 14 gauge. This might not matter since I'll buy a kit with thicker spokes anyways for the motorized wheel, but Im not sure if a weaker front wheel would matter.

Also, If I do do a /diy/ approach, motors and batteries are easy to research since there are so few kits, but its hard to decide on a bike. I was thinking of the diamondback insight 2 because you can get it for about 300 bucks and it has disk brakes, but I'm increasingly unsure whether I care about disk brakes since I'm no speed queen and really just don't want to pedal. Whats a good cheap bike without disk brakes? Needs to have fender mounts, decent components, decent wheels and rims.

>>1096698
Don't worry about the front wheel as it's only about 10kg you'll be adding, the reason for the thicker spokes on the rear wheel is because there's more power being transferred through them. You'll want to factor in $80 or so to swap out the brakes for hydraulics, luckily it's already 7 speed so you won't have to get a new derailer and shifter, chain, and you could even reuse the freewheel if getting a hub motor without one saves you any money (or keep it as a spare).

>>1096510
>grannys should be celebrated for going out and causing road hazards rather than being placated indoors

Right. Also calling me elitist doesnt make me wrong

>>1096675
How do you define those scientists as reputable or not. Because if you are conflating reputability with belief in climate change then that in itself is a really stupid premise.

>>1096624
Classical liberalism rejects private property unless you conveniently ignore everyone but Locke.

>>1096859
Well, in general, I've noticed a lot of extreme devotion to mid drive motors, even though in most cases a powerful hub drive seems to do just as well. Obviously a mid drive is superior in some circumstances, especially for hauling heavy loads on cargo bikes or steep hills. But they're also more expensive and harder to install + breaking chains. I'm a little sick of people online being so quick to recommend them to entry level users. I think people should be careful about where they get their information, and think very carefully about who they trust about their ebike motors. You don't wanna listen to just anyone. I'm sure a lot of them think they know a lot about mid drives and hub motors, but what they think they know about them, is really just passing knowledge from building one bike or something. They form these strong opinions on mid drive motors, which is great because they are thinking independently, but I often times wish that they would be more humble and admit that they are less than well informed on mid drive motors.

>>1096851
>no one should be on the road but me

I get it, someone didn't signal, or cut you off. It happens, it sucks. But the solution isn't to ban everyone from the roads and get all red and hot over bikes that go 20 mph. People should be free to use alternative transportation. Like it or not, grandmas can drive cars long into their 80's in super duty pickup trucks and its all legal. Cry about it, then cry some more, punch a pillow if it helps.

>>1096876
In america, classical liberalism is the term used to describe the liberty centric view of (most of) the founders and for about 30 years onward.
Basically, it's a cop out to try to give some legitimacy to liberalism so that people don't have to accept other people's liberty that comes with libertarianism.

>>1097006
I'm glad you asked. There are actually some really cool cargo e-bikes with two massive batteries strapped onto them that can go over 100 miles on one charge. They are pretty pricey though due to usually being a mid drive. But if you're looking for a cargo bike, making it an ebike is a no brainier if you really plan to haul a bunch of shit.

Can someone tell me why $250 in lipos and and a motor costs $1000+ and/or is beyond chinese trash?

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>>1096888
I bought a cheap direct drive rear-wheel hub motor and built a cheap 48v SLA battery pack for prototype testing and this thing hauls ass without even trying. I'm planning to pick up a fatty LiPo battery to fit in the triangle after this prototype testing phase is complete, probably something like five to ten full charge cycles.

I read a lot of the articles from electricbike dot com and this seems like it's the most maint free way to go for a first ebike. I could have gone with a front-wheel motor for slightly less pain in the ass installation, but I thought that it would put too much torquing strain on the fork compared to pushing in line against the rear stays.

>>1097211
how many watts is that motor? And what kit is that? Just curious.

>>1097222
It's rated for 1kW and it is unbranded stuff that I got from a dropshipper in CA.

>>1097026

Which cargo bikes in particular?

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>>1066809
Witness my 1.3kw SLA hackjob prototype.

>>1097363
nice.

>>1097363
About how much are you into it so far?
Looks nice btw

>>1097384
>>1097418
Thanks frens, it's a different kind of stupid. Acceleration off the line is unreal thanks to torque electric motors generate. Then it hits top speed and you want more. It needed a torque arm to prevent the axle from spinning in the dropouts. It's acceleration could be stupider with lithium cells.

Whole build cost roughly $1.3k. Tops out at 40mph without pedaling, range of ~25mi. Could be further if I pedaled but it's weight makes it more like an emotorcycle... with pedals. Controller is capable up to 60v for ~1.6kw, which is planned for v2 along with lithium cells. Had to mount the batteries on the frame because handling turned to garbage with all the weight in the rear.

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>>1097474
Surprised that cost so much with SLA, how much was the base bike?

Mine was about $1k with half going towards the motor kit, 36v ~750w. Haven't ridden it in a while due to being too lazy to fix a puncture, last time I looked it had rusty water pouring out of the hub so I'll need to disassemble and clean that again.

>>1097484
The base bike was costly, neither was it a good platform to motorize but it was the only bike I had that fit the bill. It was roughly $700 for the bike, $300 for the kit, then the rest for the batteries and bits and pieces.

>>1097484
Nice build btw, 750w is a respectable amount of power without needing to worry about bracings, batteries, and the law

>>1097499
Cheers. I've still got a torque arm even though the dropouts are quite thick and beefy and it's still technically illegal to ride on the road here in the UK (I usually have it limited closer to the legal limit for pedal assistance, then the throttle can go to full power for climbing and accelerating) but I haven't been pulled over yet.

The battery was a pain in the arse to get fitted and I got lucky with it, literally any larger and it wouldn't have gone. Only one bottle cage bolt lined up so it has a velcro strap around the downtube and a strip of metal going over the top tube that's the screwed to the battery case (not in that photo) so it's mounted quite solidly. Looks like your front triangle is quite small too so try and get some battery dimensions when you upgrade yours unless you're gonna DIY something.

>>1066858
>>1066878
Why does anyone care about the 25 mph speed limit.
Buy your hub motor. Buy your own 50+ Amp. electronic speed controller. Buy a $15 microcontroller if you can't electrical engineering and build a more efficient throttle to send a PWM signal to the ESC.
Bravo, you now can go fast.
For even more lulz, put a hub motor on your front and rear wheel and use two ESC units. Seriously though.
>Talon 120HV 120A 12S Max HD BEC
6000 W max output from 12s LiPo's for $200 a pop.
Two $250 hub motors, two of Talon's and a throttle of your own devising which should cost less than $20 + time and effort.
>Protip, make sure you have some armor around your LiPo packs in case you drop the bike. No one likes burning their nutsack off.

>>1097973
Where does one find parts as these annon?
Google?

>>1097986
Just google
>Talon 120HV 120A 12S Max HD BEC
The hub motors you can get off ebay/amazon/ali
express.

thanks

>>1096029
Exhaust is toxic you dipshit. I don't want it in my air.

>>1098760
It stinks really bad, too. People don't realize it because they smell it all of the time, but cars stink.

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bumping with
smart e-bike

>>1099070
What's smart about it?

>>1099076
Just the brand annon

high IQ
FTFY

>>1099095
Is that your ride Annon?
Noice eh

This thread is incredible.

Open lunacycle.com and build your own with BBSHD. Goes 50mph and climbs any hill because it's geared.

Done. Thread over.

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>>1098760
>>1098765
WHAT ARE FILTERS AND CATALYTIC CONVERTERS FOR 100 ALEX?

SOME CARS' EXHAUST IS CLEANER THAN AIR IN CHINA

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/Emissions-from-our-cars-cleaner-than-Delhi-air-says-Jaguar-CEO/articleshow/50894430.cms

AND SOME TINY LITTLE MICROTURBINE FOR AN E-BIKE IS GOING TO PUT OUT NEGLIGIBLE EXHAUST ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO ALL OTHER SOURCES IN YOUR CITY EVEN PEOPLE LIGHTING FIRES IN THEIR FIRE PLACES!

ALSO ALCOHOL BURNS CLEAN SO DOES NATURAL GAS

AND BATTERIES ARE FUKKKEN TOXIC AS SHIT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT AND THEY ARE NOT RECYLCED YET AND HAVE TO BE PURCHASED FROM FUCKING CHINA

AND HYDRO CARBONS ARE BURNT IN THE PRODUCTION OF BATTERIES YOU FUKKKKKKEN FAGGGGGOTS

AND BIO FUEL DOES NOT INCREASE NET ATMOSPHERIC CARBON CONTENT BECAUSE THE CARBON IN THE PLANTS CAME FROM THE AIR FIRST

>>1099647
shite b8 m8 0/8

>>1099653
NICE MEME YOU KNOW IM RIGHT NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOUR EGO AND BIAS WANTS BATTERIES TO MAKE YOU A BETTER PERSON FOR USING THEM

>>1099647
>>1099655
This lad is a salty faggot, but not wrong.

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>>1099679
omg i posted caps im so salty lel thanks for agreeing with me tho xD

>>1099210
more like how to get your bike stolen. Thats a weekend ride build.

>>1099647
awesome, where can I buy it? Link me something legal I can buy.

All rage and no substance. We have been through this twice in this thread.

WHERE CAN I BUY IT?

>>1099647
>AND BATTERIES ARE FUKKKEN TOXIC AS SHIT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT AND THEY ARE NOT RECYLCED YET

But that's just incorrect. You can't throw them in the blue bin, but recycling batteries is possible unless you live in a backwater flyover shithole.

>>1100223
It's not economical to recycle li-ion batteries because they contain so little lithium and it's cheaper to just make new batteries and dump the old ones. The batteries are challenging to recycle because of toxicity therefore increasing the cost.

https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge

>>1100206
Well maybe if companies cared less about pandering to libs and more about practical engineering sense there would be one on the market already.

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>>1100225
But anon if there were true, then companies would have to make an actually viable product. Do you seriously have a problem with post-modernist engineering?

>>1100224
"not cost effective" is the excuse of greedy capitalists who don't want to find the solutions to problems so they can keep milking their current infrastructure investments. Fuck off, oil shill.

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>>1100224
>>1100271
Also, once lithium mining gets too expensive, the cost will balance out and recycling will become viable. Until then, we'll mine more lithium, nbd.

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>>1100271
Yeah, so is slowing down economic growth by capping carbon emissions going to help residents living in coastal cities relocate inland? You know the world is getting warmer whether or not libs cuck everyone into paying more for energy or not, not to mention China and India are the world's largest carbon emitters.

Fucking commie millennials these days... and you know that economic principles don't only affect capitalist society's that use currency?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN5L2q6hfWo

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>>1100272
nbd, just huge landfills full of toxic chemicals and paying third world commie dictators for their conflict minerals..

oh yeah not to mention engineering retardation and regressive economic principles

>>1100274
Cool non sequitur strawman, bro.

Go fuck yourself.

>>1100275
>nbd, just huge landfills full of toxic chemicals and paying third world commie dictators for their conflict minerals..
Sounds exactly like the status quo to me.

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>>1100279
yeah or just you know? grow some biofuels so transportation has no net carbon output or toxic batteries (or less of them) and you dont have to expend a bunch of energy building a gay ass supercharger network and have pants on head retarded engineering solutions to carry around heavy ass batteries which causes transportation to use even more fucking energy.

>>1100277
DO YOU THINK THE RESIDENTS OF COASTAL CITIES WILL HAVE AN EASIER TIME RELOCATING IF YOU SLOW ECONOMIC GROWTH BY MAKING ENERGY MORE EXPENSIVE?

And like the tucker carlson piece with bill nye displayed, climate scientists have no idea how much humans are actually affecting the environment or how effective slowing down carbon emissions would be in trying to curb global warming. And they definitely dont know whether it's better or worse for coastal residents. All they can say is "hurr durr white people are making the earth warmer but who knows how much and we need to stop emitting carbon so we can probably slow down global warming by an ambiguous amount."

Meanwhile cow shit and deforestation supposedly accounts for over half of global warming..

Anyway climate scientists cant agree on shit or make accurate predictive models and scientists are scared to even question it for fearing of losing their careers and being labeled a climate denier which just creates more public suspicion.

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>>1100283
1. Biofuels are grown from conventional farming, which uses synthetic nitrate fertilizer that is made from petroleum intensive processes. They are incredibly inefficient if you actually pay attention to the whole cycle that it takes to produce them, but I realize that such things can be difficult for a nincompoop such as yourself.

2. a Tesla doesn't weigh significantly more than an average car in America, and my electric bicycle is going to only weigh about 50 pounds total. Please tell me more about how commuting on electric bicycles is going to use more energy than a car. I would really like to fully understand how pants-on-head raterded you are.

3. I am ignoring your strawman horseshit about carbon credits and global warming because that has nothing to do with why I support EV. Concentrating polluting electricity generation to power plants and using EV's in our urban areas will make our urban areas cleaner and more environmentally friendly for the people living there. It has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with making our cities nicer places to be a human person. Kindly fuck off with your shrill nonsense.

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>>1100285
>Biofuels are grown from conventional farming,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

Right now it's corrupt corn lobby bullshit but if someone fucking researched algae farming then it could be done with minimal impact to the environment and even could be potentially done off shore.

>Tesla doesn't weigh significantly more than an average car in America
Maybe not but you cannot change the fact that hydrocarbons or even hydrogen has an order of magnitude better energy density. You could make your bike lighter and TESLAS LIGHTER.

>Please tell me more about how commuting on electric bicycles is going to use more energy than a car.
Apples 2 organges m9 i didnt fucking say that. But you would be using less energy if you had a small microturbine instead of the relatively yuuuge battery because your e bike would be lighter and wouldnt suffer the same lack of efficiency. You might think your e bike is light enough and thats cool but i would rather have a lighter bike with a more elegant engineering solution. Its not a fucking crazy conspiracy theory to say that companies are hesitant to develop a hybrid e-bike because they dont want to be labelled dirty carbon emitters and want to appeal to trendy millennials.

>using EV's in our urban areas will make our urban areas cleaner and more environmentally friendly for the people living there.
Jesus christ man we're now officially going in circles look at this shit:
>>1099647

You know brake dust and rubber particulates are arguably worse for health than FILTERED catalytic convertered exhaust ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS FROM BIOFUEL! Should DEEP FRYERS be banned to??

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/11/polluting-effect-wear-brakes-tyres-pollutionwatch
>The researchers found some roads where the air pollution benefits from improvements in diesel exhausts were outweighed by increases in particles that come from the wear of tyres, brakes and the road

You know that black dust on the side of highways?

>>1100287
>wishful thinking and wild speculation
>muh magical algae fuels
>muh magical microturbines
>muh faith-based-engineering

Oh fuck off with your imaginary-land fantasy horseshit!

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Embrace freedom of choice

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Outta my way plebs!