/BRT/ - Bike Training and Racing thread

Reminder to report and ignore runningposting

It's 51 degrees and cloudy today with a 20% chance of rain, so needless to say I will not be riding this weekend and, given that the weekend is the only time it's possible to ride, it means I will not have another chance to think about riding again until next weekened

I'm thinking of riding again once the weather gets nice again, who else is a professional serious cyclist trainer enthusiast like me? God I hate all these runnerfags who ride when it's not between 64 and 71 degrees and between 30 and 60% relative humidity. It's like they love UTTERLY RUINING their gloves, everyone who is on a bike right now instead of shitposting on 4chan is a mean runner jerk who totally doesn't like cycling like I do

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>tfw single-digit bodyfat percentage
>tfw >4W/kg at threshold
>tfw KoM money coming my way

>>1066345
4w/kg ftp... holy fuck brochillini nice

>>1066345

>can't pass a piss test
>a judge could probably just walk up and LICK you and would subsequently fail a drug test

I just motor dope. No health risks.

>>1066283
>It's 51 degrees and cloudy today with a 20% chance of rain, so needless to say I will not be riding this weekend

Are you fucking kidding me?

>>1066381
If I hadn't lost all faith in humanity ages ago, this post might have bothered me.

>>1066372
4w/kg
4th cat confirmed.
We'll talk when you get to 4.5

Anyone here racing the LA Circuit Race tomorrow? Gonna be lit af.

>>1066345
>>1066413
Seriously. 4 w/kg will get you a cat 4 win IF you can do it at the end of an aggressive race.

t. 5 w/kg, 4.2 w/kg for 2 hours

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>>1066468
really?

>>1066469
Glad you posted that, you saved me the trouble of having to do it myself.

For those of you who have and use a power meter on a regular basis:
* Do you know what your current 1-minute power is?
* If Yes to the above, how closely does it correlate to your 5-second, 5-minute, and 20-minute (FT) power on the above chart?

To put it another way: Is your 1-minute power on more-or-less the same line as 5-second, 5-minute, and FT?

>>1066469
meh, that's not really that accurate. Pros will do OVER 4.2 w/kg for 5 hours so it's really not that impressive. I just started road from mountain biking last year and went 5-3... hopefully I'll get my 2 soon. I can do the best w/kg numbers on climbs. That 4.2 for 2 hours was on a flat road race and I was suffering hard since I had no uphill for recovery (as counter intuitive as that sounds).

trust me, i'm no pro

Racing goes in /sp/
Bikes only go on /n/ when they're used for actual transportation.

>>1066476
yeah, transporting riders from the starting line to the finish line lol

>>1066468
Depends what your CP, W' and fatigue profile all look like but 4w/kg for ftp is pretty shit no offence.

>>1066571
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, senpai.

>>1066571
why no offense? I'm not the one you're talking about

>>1066473
my 5s is much lower than all my other zones, 5min power being ahead of everything, ftp being in next position, 1 minute and then 5s

>>1066748
that's weird. what kind of rider are you? weight?
Usually a big 5 min means you can sprint pretty well.

My conference's season just ended so I think I'm going to switch on back to touring for the Spring/Summer. Reached Cat 4 without really training and had a blast this season.

Some teammates are going to Collegiate Nationals this weekend, anyone else checking it out?

2/3 race yesterday,
Chaingang today,
Rest day tomorrow,
VO2 max intervals Wednesday,
E/1/2 Crit Thursday,
Recovery spin Friday,
Time trialling Saturday (10mi),
Race intervals Sunday.

How do I get a 415 watt ftp?

>>1067102
be 85 kg

>>1067117
What about without being 85kilogees?

>>1067125
Be Bradley Wiggins

>>1067125
train hard and be gifted genetically

What list of skills would you say separates us from them?

Top tube descending
Track standing
No hands on the rollers
Take gillet/waterproof off while riding

>>1067329
i can do the first three but DESU i've never tried the fourth

>>1067329
>Top tube descending
shit meme is less aero than a standard coasting tuck with elbows in line with knees for like 72% of people

>>1067329
Wait you can't do all of those? Time to practice you bike handling skills anon-kun.

>>1067444
Source? Need to see numbers anon

>>1066476
Sorry fatty.

I did a 4/5 race and a 3/4 race today (obviously, I'm a 4). The 4/5 race was a much faster race than the 3/4. This has been the case over and over again.
Why?

>>1067510
probably cuz the 4/5s race is all edgelords who want to just ride fast and will chase down anyone who tries go for a break

3/4s probably think they're all strategic and want to conserve all their energy for the final few miles/kilometers

>>1067001
coll nats is too expensive and I'm not pro/1/2 level

I think I'll pass

>>1067329
if you want to call yourself a real cyclist^(TM) then you should be able to do a basic track stand for 5 sec, descent on the top tube comfortably, and be able to take your jacket off

if you can already ride no hands then i don't see why taking a jacket off would be much harder for you

If any of you are in the collegiate scene, I will bet you $100 either a member from
>Midwestern State University
>Lindenwood
will win either men's 1 or men's 2

>tfw ywn ride with anyone from /brt/

>>1067532
where do u live

>>1067511
What's the right way to race?

>>1067609
Get to the finish line before anyone else

>>1067609
Attack when there's a drop in the pace, never divebomb anyone, if you're hurting; everyone is hurting... It's a good time to attack.

>>1067526
idk, it's at "altitude" which is 4500 feet or so

Lindenwood is shitty and overrated and I'm pretty sure that Midwestern win was a one-off. Marian is the dangerous one, they're all strong and very organized. However, there are a couple CU Boulder hitters and other guys who are well-acclimated. You never know.

>>1067511
Chasing down attacks is what you're supposed to do, for two reasons:

1. If you can chase up to them, and the break is successful, you've got a shot at the podium.
2. You can't reel a breakaway back in if nobody chases them down.

This has nothing to do with what Category they are either.

>>1067724
Watch out for UW-Madison, they're on par with Marian and Lindenwood this season

>>1066225
How do you do both?

>>1067840
t. retard
>>1067843
t. caiel
>>1067859
t. runningposter

>>1067541
denmark

@1068044
Thank (((You)))

>>1068257
Dude no problem. Cardiovascular endurance is awesome to have as a bicycle racist... And running will make you good at that!

>>1068044
t. wheelchair-bound bitterman trainfag

Did a 70 km breakaway with my team mate today, we had a 1 minute gap at one point but got caught at less than 300 meters to go.
Afterwards i found out that another team mate had helped chase us down...
Aaaaaaaaa we could have had a 1 2 finish

>>1068510
>Afterwards i found out that another team mate had helped chase us down...
Tarded?

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>>1068419
>bicycle racist
keked

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>mfw looking down at my PM on an easy ride and just cruising at nearly 4w/kg

>>1068549
Definitely over-reading.
What pm you on?

>>1068520
such is life in cat D

>>1068549
It reads absolute numbers. It's not W/kg. You're putting out 4 W. I assume you were all over the MUP.

>>1068611
Averaged like 23mph sitting up in my hoods and tops for the entire ride lul

>>1068634
fuck

>>1066748
Worth keeping in mind that 1min power is hard to test and mostly comes down to finding the perfect hill that you can crank it out of the saddle on

>>1068616
if you were in a 70 km break, that's a long ass D race. Isn't that for 'tisms with flat bar road bikes and shit?

>>1068549
...

people that make posts about their w/kg with no strava ride and proof of weight in this thread should be banned

>>1068694
t. 2.5 w/kg

>>1068690
Our road categories goes from D to A instead of 5(?) to 1. The race was 85 km and we averaged 38 km/h

>>1068730
oh. In the US there's also collegiate cycling (sanctioned by the nationwide cycling body USA cycling) and their categories are E-A but most conferences are only C-A as E and D are for people who have barely ridden bikes. You'll see flat bar road bikes in those races. Typically they're in large conferences (obviously)

what cunt are you from?

>>1068734
Denmark
People in D here ride bikes that are just as high end as in higher classes.
There are also a lot of "exercise" races for people that dont do license racing

>>1068711
this kek

Hit a cat on the commute. Everything's fine, including the cat, besides my big toe which I can now barely move. I rode another 15 miles or so and it didn't hurt much but after getting off and pacing for a couple minutes I almost fucking died. Had to quickly neck painkillers. I was sweating buckets and feeling dizzy it was so painful.

Guess that's me out of commission for a while.

>>1068810
>painkillers
>loses natty card
>plebeian.

>>1068836
>loses natty card
>implying

>>1068660
What power meter?

>>1068694
>expecting people to self-doxx on 4chan
Nice try, troll. You get off on ruining people's lives or somesuch shit? Fuck you, kill yourself.

Did a 22:27 - 337w avg for a 10mile tt yesterday. Pretty slow day, only one person went under 21:00.
Chaingang tomorrow
E/1/2 Crit race Tuesday
2/3/4 Crit Wednesday
E/1/2 Crit Thursday
Rest Friday
Intervals Sat/Sunday

>>1068894
Technically speaking if you're already in FS then you're self-doxxing to some degree.

Gonna race Tuesday. Hopefully I'll finish this time

Averaged under 20mph today... kill me

>>1069390
you're an idiot if you think that's the only measure for riding

also you're a double idiot if you're trying to average that each ride... there's merit to going slow

or you're just riding in a pancake flat area lol

>>1069398
Uh.... 20mph IS slow??? I'm not sure where you got the idea that I never ride just ludicrously slow from lmfao. I was being sarcastic when I said "kill me," it was an ultra-extreme recovery ride lmfao, 19.8mph or something insane like that. I spent most of the ride coasting.

I thought that was a given... I mean considering I even SAID I averaged under 20mph...

>>1068895
Are crits more common in america?
Here in Denmark the road season has been going on for about a month now with out any crits, and I only think my area has like one or two during the season

>>1069556
I think he's from the UK, we don't use the classification E

>>1069565 did you just assume my gender?
>>1069556
10th place tonight, glad you asked.
You can usually find weeknight crit races here in the UK if you're prepared to travel. Bigger road races are usually Sunday mornings and sometimes Saturdays.

The ranking system here for British Cycling is Elite, 300 points for a single season after having held a 1st cat licence which will set you back 200pts. 2nd cat licence is 40 points and 3rd cat is 12. You start at 4th cat, we don't have 5th cat.

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>>1067329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDMhKHlEIA

-No handed wheelies
-trials hopping and general MTB skills
-God tier cornering
-Quotability

>>1066224
how long does it take to get comfortable on aero bars? I just got some today and went for a little ride around my neighborhood since it was too late to go out for a real ride and i didn't feel very confident when i was in the position

>>1069712
Depends on how much you ride them. I found maybe 10 rides before you get confident on them. Biggest thing to get over is crosswinds. Best way to deal with them is really hunker down onto them, if they're clip ons you van obviously just go onto the hoods/drops but on a tt bike the base bar can sometimes be worse that the skis

>>1069640
How many points do you get per race?

>>1069712
Ride in the aerobars for 3 hours, any time you're going straight try to ride directly on the white line while in the aerobars, try to turn as much as possible and always do it in the aerobars. Crash if you have to. Next day ride a few hours, do all the same things except this time do some hard hammering instead of easy riding. You'll be proficient in them quickly.

>>1069760
Races in't UK are divided into National and Regional.

National races are usually E/1/2 cat.
A "National A" race is 60 points for the win with points down to 20th

A Nat B race is 30 points down to 20th

Regional A races (E/1/2, E/1/2/3, 2/3, 2/3/4) are 20 points to 15th place

Reg B races (E/1/2/3, 2/3, 2/3/4, 3/4) are 15 points down to 10th place

Reg C+ (E/1/2/3, 2/3, 2/3/4, 3/4) 10 points down to 10th.

So if you came 2nd in a reg c+ you'd get 8 points. 2nd in a Nat B you'd have 25

Fields in road races are no more than 80 riders, crit races no more than 40. Unless you do a big crit like the tour series, you don't get many points in a crit regardless of level.
There are distance requirements for each level of race too, a reg c+ has to be more than 40 miles while a Nat A more than 80 (I think, not 100% sure on that one)

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Okay you knuckleheads, POST YOUR A5 WORKOUTS.
>you're WEAK if you don't do them
Going out to do these now, will post them later.

>>1070243
go do 4 hour ride at 70-75% ftp and tell me what weak is

>>1070256
>he can't carry a sprint
Nobody cares about your pointless 4 hour rides with your buddies.

>>1070256
>4 hour ride at 70-75% ftp
Is that supposed to impress us or something? That's not even Tempo, that's just Endurance. Anybody in reasonably good condition can do that.

>>1070314
>>1070243
>>1070321
I dunno what "zone 5c" is but it sounds like just the top end of vo2 max. I consider my vo2 max pretty powerful and even 10% or 20% over is not really a sprint.

And cringe at saying 75% for 4 hours isn't challenging at all. Maybe if you have a low ftp, which makes all zones under ftp less hard on the body

>>1070353
I forgot to add, my ftp is nearly 500 watts... if you were wondering.

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>>1070256
>>1070353
>>1070356
(You)

>>1069993
Sounds like a better system than the one we have in Denmark where pretty much any points you get outside of top 3 are trash


I also did my first 20 minute ftp test today and averaged over 4 watts per kg, seems pretty good but I still have to get used to riding with a pm

>>1070356
t. fatty

>>1070485
I am 65kg

>>1070494
t. manlet

>>1070356
Hahaha, not a fucking chance. 500w ftp my arse! Confirmed for over-reading power meter.

>>1070586
I'm 6'8

>>1070586
Probably what he is is a cyclist, you fatass.

>>1070604
LOL you're right, 500W is probably his peak when sprinting.

>>1070604
>even entertaining the idea he's telling the truth

stupid question.
or rather questions.

I just rode 100km on my 90s rigidmtb turned tourer.
about 30 of them fireroads with and a short singletrack part.
I felt great for about 70km and the last 30 were pure suffering.
the last 30 km where with hardcore headwind and just plain sucked.

was this stupid ? did I bite off more than I could chew and minimized my "gains"
I know it's probably difficult to tell but am I really bad or just bad ?

I plan to do 1 long ride every saturday, should I do 70 next time ? and then go up from there ?

also even though I do this in preparation of a tour , is it cool to take my road bike for this ?
I feel like it helps with motivation because I go faster and further that way

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I did an alleycat on my racing bike today :^)

>>1070686
did u win

>>1070688
No results yet but I went pretty fast

>>1070672
It depends on how long you take to recover. If you are a short recover-er then you can hammer out a ride and be completely fucked and barely stand at the end, take 1 day easy and do it again. You'll get great gains like this.

On the other hand you take a bit longer to recover, you will do the same ride as the fast recover-er, but need 2-3 days of recovery riding after that. So that isn't good.


You want to maximize the fatigue you can achieve while still recovering and improving. The more fatigue you can handle and recover from in the same period of time, the more you are capable of improving in that period. It's different for everyone.

>>1070703

okay cool ,
I thought I really fcuked up with doing too much.
at the end my everything hurt.

>>1070641
>even entertaining the idea he's telling the truth
Well obviously not. The key to telling a believable lie is to not go overboard with it, and for it to have a shred of truth that it's hanging from. That has neither quality. Must be some bike-hating trainfag, like that fag that keeps complaining about this thread. But that doesn't mean we suffer fools gladly, either.

>>1070672
>I felt great for about 70km and the last 30 were pure suffering.
>the last 30 km where with hardcore headwind and just plain sucked.
Sounds like you 'bonked', 'hit the wall', 'ran out of gas', or whatever euphemism you care to use for it.

Did you take adequate fuel with you? 100 to 200kcal per hour of easily-digestible carbohydrates, with some easily-digestible protein if you're planning on 3 hours or more, and 16 to 24 ounces of water per hour (i.e., a bike bottle per hour). Usually a good idea to have some electrolytes in that, too, to replace what you're sweating out. Those are the 'conventional wisdom' recommendations, and for good reasons. Especially if it's hot out, you won't be able to get enough fluids into your system fast enough to replace what you're sweating out, but if you take nothing at all in you'll just dehydrate and fall apart even faster. On a long ride you're burning mainly bodyfat, but you're also burning a varying amount of blood sugar and glycogen, too, and your brain runs on blood sugar so if you get into a hypoglycemic state, that'll cause you to bonk hard, too, which is why you need carbohydrates.

You sound like you're not a racer, and that's OK.. but you may in fact have 'bitten off more than you could chew'. If all you've been doing is much shorter rides, and not working your way up to a 100km ride, week by week, then you may well have just gone beyond your endurance limits. How many days a week do you ride, and how far each day?

finished the tour de bloom

Was fun

>>1070672
Yes you bit more of then you can chew.
In my experience bonking hard can still make you stronger, depending on the amount of rest and recovery you allow yourself to have. The advantage of not bonking is shortening your recoveryperiod and being able to train again sooner and feeling better & fresher. You also decrease the risk of overtraining.

So next time have a ride of 75km and see how it goes and go on from there.
The windspeed and direction is of importance on the intensity of the ride so keep these factors in mind when planning for a ride.

>>1070965
>>1071123

I tried really hard to keep eating enough and I feel like I managed that part but for whatever reason I completly failed at the hydration front.
I drank 2l in 6 hours.
I usually drink a lot when riding or in the gym but somehow I only thought about eating since I messed that up on a 80km ride last fall.

I go to the gym 3 times a week and play an hour of tennis twice a week. on top of that I currently to do 2 fasted 20km rides a week and want to add in one long ride on the weekend.

additionally I go everywhere by bike, so that's probably another 30 - 40 km a week.

I mainly want to improve my endurance and have set 200km as a current goal.

should I can those fasted rides and do longer rides on the evening ?

>>1071155

also forgot to add.

I took the ride on saturday and did a 20km fasted ride this morning and I feel great.

ftp w/kg: 5.2
vo2max w/kg: 6.45
5s w/kg: 14.1 (on a good day)

wat do?

>>1071564
>wat do?
Same as always. Identify your limiters and write your training plan around improving them. Learn to race smarter.

>>1071564
have you ever won a race?

>>1071716
Yes

>>1071725
is your FTP actually 5.2? If so, you should fairly easily be cat 1/2.

>>1071732
Yeah I'm a 1/2. You might think I am delusional but I expect to be at 5.5w/kg ftp by late July. Only done like 10 1/2 races so my results are actually underwhelming as fuck considering. Learning every day though.

>>1071747
Nah, I mostly believe you, as long as you're not dave.

I have a 5 w/kg FTP but I'm still a 3 - I just started road last season, usually a mountain biker. Hoping to keep improving my road game and grab my 2 soon - fitness is there, mobility and positioning in the peloton isn't.

Where do you live? North America? Yurop?

>>1071774
>>1071774
Yeah NA

>>1071775
damn it dave, GTFO

>>1071777
Its me.. dAve the triathlete

re asking:

after changing my crank I keep dropping my chain.

however I don't really know if it has anything to do with my crank.

the chain only drops on up shift.
and I noticed that the chain sometimes shifts normaly and sometimes slaps from side to side.
I notice this on the upper part of the chain ,so above the deraileur.

I even use a clutch deraileur.

what going on ?

>>1071805

damn wrong thread.

Entering several local races/sportives this summer and even as a solo rider I need a team name.
Hit me with some hot suggestions lads.

>>1071895
team fortress 2

>>1071895
fucking cagers

>>1071895
Forever Shinkansen

>>1071895
Morbid Depression

>>1071895
Pro Driver

>>1071895
An Hero

>tfw first year being older than majority of gt riders

>>1071895
Anal Canal

How do I stop being such a pussy about high speed technical descents, in a pack of riders?
>InB4 do more high speed technical descending in a pack of riders
I do it as much as I can. How do I get my HEAD to stop freaking out and making me back off? I really don't want to die.

>>1072929
FASTER
FASTER
UNTIL THE THRILL OF SPEED OVERCOMES THE FEAR OF DEATH

>>1072929
Start wanting to die.

>>1072929
as silly as it sounds, ride as fast as the pack. I know it's scary, but being a pussy boi around corners and being generally scared will make all the other riders avoid you like the plague as you're likely to cause a crash by braking all the time (unpredictably)

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>>1072929
>>1072932
>>1072935
>>1072964

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I thought I would post this here as well, since I wasnt really sure where to ask (i also asked in the /brt/ thread)

can someone recommend me a really good bike trainer for indoors, either one you put your bike on or one with a bike thats part of the exercise machine?

... noise is important, quiet as possible price range around 200-300 if possible, im not too sure whats on the market besides the stuff i have looked at.

also if it has a bike integrated something you can stand while you pedal. Thank you!!

(if you want to know why its mostly for losing weight, I used to bike a lot in my early 20s and then i had an accident at work and ended up putting on 100 lbs...I really wanna slim down but not sure if i should be riding outside just yet)

>>1073310
this was real hard to watch

>>1073310
Fuck. That is the worst concussion I've ever seen. Hope he got to a hospital ASAP and I almost guarantee his helmet saved his life. That's the kind of concussion that would kill if left untreated. Hard to watch.

>>1072929
Practice. A lot of it. Especially braking and cornering. Once you're confident with your braking and cornering tackling technical descents becomes a piece of cake.

>>1073310
>letting him get on the bike after that
The neutral service should have some fucking common sense desu and hold up obvious concussion victims until the doc comes up instead of trying to get them going.

>>1073403
Braking and cornering skills are fine -- on the flat. I however know damned well what'll happen to me if something happens descending a twisty mountain road at 40mph, especially when I can't see around the curves. Little hills where I can see where I'm going are not the problem. 90 degree corners on the flat are not the problem. I know when and how to use my brakes, and I don't ever panic out and jam them on. It's literally descending very steep very twisty very technical descents.

Never mind. I don't think there is any advice anyone can give me on this that I haven't already heard before, and it all amounts to basically 'man the fuck up', which really isn't very helpful.

>>1073403
Oh and also I can't 'practice' descending mountains all the time because I don't live close enough to them to be able to do that. I guess I'll either get better at it or I won't.

>>1073603
>>1073604
Well if your braking and cornering skills are fine then pretty much all you can do is 'man the fuck up'.

>>1073738
>tfw went to spectate at a local TT
>now i want a tt bike

>>1070604
He might get that tho if he is like 6'6" or somesuch and quite heavy.

Does anyone here race cyclocross? What shoes do you use?

I have some XC mtb shoes but they're pretty challenging to walk/run in, should I just practice with them or getting something better suited for off-bike situations?

I don't know why but I really like Tom Dumoulin, I hope he wins the GC
Did you guys see his win on the 14th stage? It was glorious

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>>1066224
>road race today
>felt crappy yesterday
>felt great today
>lots of energy, lots of stamina
>was my race to win or lose so far as I was concerned
>halfway through the race, a few surges, a half-assed breakaway that we chased down, still feeling great, no problems at all
>been working on my 1-minute power for weeks, made good progress
>still feel like it's my race to win or lose, you suckers just wait until we get to the sprint
>whoops, pothole up ahead of me
>riders on either side of me
>no problem, I'll just bunnyhop over it
>clears pothole, no problem
>PSSSSSSSSSSsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
...
Goddamnit.
I ain't even mad.. just.. disappointed.

Found out a little later that I wasn't the only victim of that particular pothole, either. One guy got a double flat because of it.

>>1074665
): sorry to hear that dogg

>>1074593
I just use my XC shoes and some SPDs. What XC shoes do you have? I haven't had any issues and mine have crabbon soles

>>1075023
They are Shimano, I don't remember the exact model right now. I'll check later if it matters.
I think they have carbon reinforcement too, stiff as fuck anyway. It's like walking with a plank strapped to your foot. Also the "tread"/"knobs" or whatever on them feel pretty unstable to me. On super soft ground I don't mind it but on regular grass or hardpack it's pretty fucked up.

I guess I'll just have to git gud

>can peak 1500 watts for 1 second
>can barely hit 1050 average for 5 sec
wat do?

>>1075131
Anaerobic intervals. Lactate tolerance intervals. Sprint intervals.
See Cyclists Training Bible, A2's, A5's, and P3's.

>>1075140
>Anaerobic intervals. Lactate tolerance intervals
>See Cyclists Training Bible, A2's, A5's, and P3's.
I have no idea what any of this means

>>1075165
Then why are you worried about watts at all

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>>1075131
>>1075165
You have a power meter but don't know what intervals are? How did that happen?
>>1075039
They are M182.
>Rigid fiberglass reinforced sole transfers your energy straight to the pedals
yep, I can confirm this.
>while the flexible nylon-polyurethane outer sole provides secure off-bike traction.
this, not so much..

>>1075165
>he has no idea what he's doing
There's a link at the top of the thread. Download the book and start reading.

>>1075216
Because I want to be stronger? How about you stop talking about cringey fucking meme books and just tell a good way to improve 10s power lul.


>>1075283
>I don't know what these cringey buzzword training methods are so I have no idea what I'm doing

Cringe.

>>1075294
>le cringe
>le meme
even reddit is embarrassed

>>1075294
>>1075165
>>1075131
>has a PM
>wants to improve
>doesn't know what intervals are
>doesn't want to read a book about training
>wants to be spoonfed
Unironically kys

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hello to everyone. i need good advice for my situation and that demands quite a bit of info, so sorry if it gets a bit long, ill try to be as objective as possible, but trust me im here to listen to you guys, im sure some of you may be able to help. also sorry if my english isn't the best, its not my native language.

i used to bike a lot as a kid, then i broke a ton of bones and my bike on a crash. after that and cause of a bunch of other reasons i didnt get back on a bike till 3 years ago. im 33 now. i rapidly fell in love with pedaling again. started with commuting, then riding a ton for recreation (on a 15 year old mtb, and no, its not rigid), 6 months ago i bought my first road bike.

for the past 2 years i have been "training". with this i mean riding hard a day, resting the next and the same again. a year ago i read friel's book and understood a bunch of concepts. as you know this isnt real training but its been a decent aproach to having some discipline and correcting mistakes like cadence and stuff. also understanding stuff like riding at your max all the time is not good, learning to regulate your efforts (by feel, no cyclocomputer yet). somedays i do short (1 - 1.5hr) intense rides, others i do endurance for 4hours (100km aprox with some climbing), etc. thats where im at. ive also had some crashes and stuff that also teach you a lot. i have reached this plateau where i dont really progress anymore, and i understand that its cause im not really training. (no good measurments of progress, no clear goals, etc.. but specially, no real planned training).

so heres the thing, and hope you guys can understand. i also fell in love with bmx (street) and i've been also doing that in between. i know most here dont really get it, but i like to develope handling skill, the "flowing", and just the fun of cruising around jumping like crazy. but im also new at that so i need to practice a lot more.

(continues)

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second part:
as i told you, im 33, so i must be realistic with goals. with road biking im not really seeking to compete and race (but im also not against doing it), what i want to do is push my limits and just see how fast i can be. i really enjoy pushing myself and getting better. that feeling of reaching 3000mts above sea level on your bike at a good peace is great. but i know i can go further. so one of my ideas is to get a cyclocomputer with HR monitor and develope a serious training program for at least one year, maybe 2. then maybe cut it down to a more recreational way of riding, like im doing it now. that must be seen then of course. with the bmx i just want to get a bit better. but thats not compatible with road bike training mainly due to time. just need more riding on the bmx.

so heres one of my ideas and heres where i need your advice. to tell me if its a good or bad idea. or if you think theres a better aproach to my goals, or if you think i just need to kill one of these two sports. and by the way, (this may sound cliche) i just want to enjoy life and have good real experiences. i dont like doing things superficially. i like to really get into them.

i live in the southern hemisphere, so my seasons are the opposite of most of you guys. you guys are almost in summer, im almost in winter. another thing. winter is not really hard here, so i can pedal most of the year around, kind of like in california i think. just some rains here and there during winter.
(continues)

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part 3 and final:
as friel's says in his book, its good to do weights and cross training during the winter, and gradually progress to bike riding to be able to peak in summer. so i was thinking.. what if i leave the road bike aside for this winter. focus on the bmx (as cross training, despite it isnt so cardio, but i can still add something else like swiming) and start a real road bike training as its suposed. start with it this winter aiming to peak during summer, gradually leaving the bmx. just need to get a cyclocomputer, read again friel's book and build a training program. (and follow it of course).

does this make any sense? what do you guys think? is it doable? will i likely burnout of some sort? do you have any other idea that will give a dude like me a good experience with both of these sports? anything helps, the truth is that i dont know where else to ask. and i ride alone (one thing i think i should change.. i mean, if do start road bike training seriously for a year or 2).

thats it, sorry for the long text, have mercy on me , ha! thanks for reading, im all ears and i will be replying yes or yes (sleeping right now, but im back here tomorrow).

>>1075355
>>1075356
>>1075357
First of all. You're definitely not too old to get into racing if you want to try it. And based on your plan it sounds like you'd enjoy it. Racing also helps with the training as you have some real goal for which to train for. At least around here there are masters starts all the way up to +65 in most races.

Secondly there's absolutely no reason why you should drop the BMX if you like it, even if you end up racing. Find a place for it in your training and it's going to be fine. You said you wanted to enjoy life, then enjoy it. If BMX is something you enjoy don't drop it.

Weight training is definitely worth it. And you don't have to entirely stop riding bikes during it either. I wouldn't recommend a ton of hard efforts during that phase but slow recovery rides might even help with the recovery. I was a poorfag with no powermeter so no power numbers. However there was a significant improvement in my cycling after I spent one winter doing starting strength and took my squat from 3x5@~40 kg to 3x5@140 kg.

Burnout? Guaranteed if you don't give yourself enough recovery time or just focus on the training while forgetting to have fun and do things you enjoy.

Don't want to race? Do something else that you enjoy on the bike. Take a vacation to some good cycling location and just ride for a week or two in a new place. Attend sportives if they're something you like. Bike vacations and sportives can also act as training goals if you don't get into racing. Personally the highlight of my year is the annual vacation I take just to ride a bike somewhere nice. Last year it was two weeks in Majorca with nothing besides riding a ton planned in advance. Obviously you find other things to do while there but I didn't do any plans beforehand.

Like riding alone? Nothing wrong in that. I personally like riding alone much more than in a group.

Cyclocomputer is definitely worth it.

Tl:dr stop stressing so much and enjoy riding.

>>1075294
>Cyclists Training Bible: Literally an INDUSTRY STANDARD in training materials for competitive cyclists
>Been in use for literally DECADES by everyone from total newbs to world-tour Pro riders
>"cringey fucking meme books"
LOL I refuse to believe you're for real, no one is so stupid and so arrogant simultaneously. You must be trolling. Furthermore you must be some bike-hating trainfag, who hates this particular thread an order of magnitude more, therefore TROLLING HARDER.

Go back to your autistic trainfoamerfag threads, kid. We're not buying it.

>>1075324
I don't think whoever this faggot is has a PM, or even has a bike. Just some garden-variety trainfoamerfag, who learned enough of our 'buzzwords' (lel) to try to troll us.

>>1075357
t. El chileANO.

>>1075294
>lul
Ugh.

>>1071774
>mobility and positioning in the peloton
How does avg person learn these things without being on a team? Are there camps/clinics? The dynamics of competitive riding in a large group are confusing to me.

>get injured in 2014
>get surgery x2 and back on bike in early 2016
>spent all 2016 doing base miles and race as frequently as possible
>this year destroying myself and boosting my ftp to more than 130 watts higher than it was early last year
>spent every ounce of energy on rides
>teams finally noticing me, shot at getting on a big local elite team soon, which will open up more possibilities within the next few years
>suddenly yesterday after normal 2 hour ride get knee pain when walking in
>ride 11 minutes and 17 seconds today and it hurts

I literally have nothing in my life apart from cycling. I dedicated every ounce of strength I have to it for years, got it ripped away and put back at the start after 2 years with injuries and built it all back. Now it's happening again, right as I was about to have something good happen for a change. This time I've already had the surgery, already done everything possible the first time. I am officially fucked. Every dream I had of being a great cyclist is gone, just like that. Every opportunity I lost because of dedicating everything to training. Wasted. Now I'm less than a year until I'm 20 and I haven't got a GED, no work experience, no friends outside of cycling, nothing of value, no life experience outside of cycling. Spent all my money on bikes and surgeries from age 15, now even if I got GED I couldn't get a scholarship because I can't ride.

My only talent. My life. Over.


Kill me.

Is it possible to be a shit crit racer, but a good road racers? I mean, does that make sense at all?

>>1075573
Seems like it would make sense. Crits are typically short, on more technical courses with not much ascending and a lot of explosive accelerations. Requires a specific set of skills and abilities.

>>1075554
You are only 20 years old, just a kid. You have plenty of tome to go to school or find some work you are ineterested in. Figure out what you want to do with your life besides racing bikes. Family? Travel? A stable career? Since you already have a lot of bike experience and industry contacts you can probably find work around and with bike racing or bikes if that is still interesting to you.

Take some time to figure out your goals and then make a plan to get there. Just like racing.

>>1075554
on the bright side: you are fucking young.

you dont know shit about life yet. and loosing stuff is a big part of life. get ready for it, it will happen again. it is inexorable. but at the same stuff you will gain stuff.- thats the thing you can do. and you can do it a lot in a lot of different ways. and trust me at 20 you are fucking young.

just learn to let it go as you thought it is and fall in love with something else. shit, later you will fall in love with a couple stuff and then its time to choose...passions bro. cultivate them. and also become friend of death. its one of the hardest cultural drawbacks we have... but totally doable. peace!

>>1075573
Crits are more about anaerobic endurance than anything else, really. You're sprinting out of corners constantly. Then there's the inevitable surges from the leaders, trying to thin the pack and shake off the hangers-on. The best crit racers have a high percentage of Type-2 muscle fibers, high anaerobic endurance, and as such are natural sprinters. It's possible to not fit that description and still win, though, especially if you're on a team and work well together, because team tactics can still make a difference. Also staying near the front the whole time makes a huge difference. Not only are you not subject to the accordian effect that you experience when on the back, but it's a little saner in some ways near the front. Of course the rule of thumb that says "if you're not moving up, you're moving back" goes double for crit racing, so you're fighting the entire time to stay near the front and not get engulfed by the pack..

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When you gotta go...

>>1075554
you are young and have knowlege of cycling, go and be a personal trainer and help fat women spin to lose weight.
You are a tradesman, you can sell bikes, train, even learn repairs and work for a shop.

Your young af, the world is your oyster.

Trust me, im 33 as shit, have a decent gig, a bachelors, and 2 paid off homes, I would trade places with you in a sec.

Is there any way to transfer the output of a 3 hour ride to the personal FTP? Like, if I put out 160-200W for 3 hours, would my FTP be somewhere near 300W?

>>1075839
>remove glasses
>remove helment
>remove jersey
>to take a shit

Ain't nobody's gonna convince me bib shorts are worth it.

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>>1075554
>Dave here, I feel your pain. I used to have a 306W FTP (I'm 5'9, 137 lbs) until my knees started to fail after a few months of too much exertio- it's been four months of recurrant, unending knee pain that has almost entirely shelved any and all training. I went from 200 miles of Zone 3 training per week to almost completely nothing since then and including now. Your options are to start physical therapy and rehab immediately, I mean it really fucking sucks and is tedious, but if it doesn't feel like you have a knife in your knees, then you haven't torn anything, and the culprit is most likely sustained overuse inflammation. It is imperative that you adopt a proper stretching, warm-up, cooldown, and RICE (rest, ice, compresssion, elevation). There is hope for you if you IMMEDIATELY see a physical therapist and IMMEDIATELY get on a serious, time-intensive recovery program (plus, anti-inflammatories, like tumeric pills and NSAIDS0- if you are this serious about not losing your aerobic capacity, take up swimming (which is awful too, speaking from first-hand experience).

I know exactly what you're feeling but you also haven't been sideswiped by a cager and you aren't paralyzed. Plenty of pro's have gotten injured or even nearly killed very early in their careers and still managed to become worldly talents- read up on Esteban Chave's near career-ending crash when he was 22, for inspiration.

>>1076217
No.
Do a 30-minute TT. The average power for the last 20 minutes is a reasonable estimate of your FTP.
Or look up "CTS Field Test" and use that test protocol.
Or go get tested in a lab.

>>1076270
He went on about it in a retarded way. Bibs are definitely worth it.

>>1076423
How else would one go about it?

>>1076431
Might have been quicker to unzip the jersey and leave the helmet and glasses on. He ripped the jersey over his head which is a bit unusual innit.

>>1076432
Now that you mention it yeah, it's kind of odd

>>1076432
>>1076433
Maybe he just like to take shits while completely naked, I know I do

>>1076432
not all jerseys have a full length zipper

>>1076486
I was about to post that I was pretty sure every pro team kit has a full zipper but it looks like the maglia rosa actually doesn't. Pretty dumb

>>1076423
>>1076431
>>1076432
>>1076433
>>1076434
>>1076486
>>1076499
I don't think any of you have faced a situation where you're on a bike and suddenly you realize that you're in imminent danger of losing containment of the contents of your bowels. Having bike shorts on when you lose containment would be a gigantic disaster. Aside from diarrhea EVERYWHERE, you'd literally have to be stripped naked anyway, literally HOSED DOWN with an actual water hose, and everything you're wearing bagged and tossed into the trash. You could completely and totally forget riding anymore that day, especially if you're in the middle of a goddamned pro-level road race.

>>1076285
The crash Eddy Merckx sustained early in *his* career; apparently he says that he felt pain from that injury, even after it ostensibly healed, to one extent or another every single day he rode a bike after that. I've been injured, too, in a way that can flare up from time to time, and when it's bad I remind myself of Eddy Merckx and that it didn't hold him back.

BASED TOM
FUCK NAIRO

>>1076535
God, imagine if he hadn't stripped, there would be hundreds of photos of him riding with shit running down his legs into his shoes. Revolting.

Does anyone know how to smooth out power bumps in a file? It seems that when you go over certain surfaces that make your bike vibrate, the stages cadence sensor spergs out.

>>1077395
Ok, Golden Cheetah does it fairly painlessly. If anyone else cares.

>>1077395
>power bumps
You shouldn't be worrying about second-to-second power readings, for the most part you should be worrying about average power over time, normalized power over time, and time-in-zone.

>>1077423
Sure, but it ruins the power curve data on >strava at the top end. Just a minor annoyance really.

damn, Julien Absalon (guy on the right in the OP pic) broke his collarbone. Now Nino has barely anyone to battle with unless Van Der Poel keeps racing weltcupps

I have a question for those who race: what would be your daily caloric intake on average? Of course it depends on how much training you do during the week, but I'm having trouble reaching my caloric requirements without losing weight from riding (I am already skelly mode so I need to keep every last drop of mass I have left) I am trying to devise a training + diet plan to get some solid gains at the gym and through cycling during winter (in australia so I can ride more or less through the winter no problems)
Anybody have any examples?
I estimated with some internet calorie requirement calculators that I will need 3000 calories per day in total, to give me enough energy for 3x per week at the gym and 160km-200km cycling per week at the start. Does that seem reasonable?

>>1077913
Eat some fucking burgers

>>1077913
>trouble reaching caloric requirements
Fucking eat senpai

I've been doing a 3 day split at the gym for a while now but I wanted to get more serious with roa bikeing.

should I skip legday and go hard on the bike ?

or shoul I continou squatting ?

>>1077913
How much do you weigh and how tall are you? Are you going to do crits or are you doing RRs with 15-20 minute climbs? If you're doing crits only, don't worry about weight much honestly. If you are doing RRs, but the only climbs are under 5-8 minutes then it's not near as much of an issue either. Just eat some food brah. I don't track my cals but I track my weight, once I'm in a range I weigh myself daily and look at the trends of each week and if it's trending up I'll skip a tiny amount of food each day, trending down for more than 2 weeks and I'll eat more. If there's a big race coming later in the week I'll eat more, if there is just training on the weekend then eat less. Etc shit isn't hard. Stop eating only brown rice and kale and buy some bigger bowls for your pasta and you won't have problems maintaining weight

>>1077997
>Stop eating only brown rice and kale and buy some bigger bowls for your pasta
More to this, I know a few people who talk about how much effort they put into maintaining their weight and say they eat insane amounts, but their portions are very small, they'll eat 8-10 times a day but not top 4000kcal. EAT more in one sitting and stop geeking out about eating only baked chicken, brown rice, kale and egg whites, jesus christ it isn't hard, if it were hard there wouldn't be an obesity problem. If you think you're an anomaly and have some insane metabolism and you're eatign 7000kcal a day and losing weight, you aren't, statistically speaking, you're just delusional about how much you eat.

>>1077988
Squats & oats m8. Squats & oats.

>>1077913
I really don't understand you people who can't EAT. The human body is EVOLVED to be a calorie-storing machine, and as stingy about burning them as possible. While the vast majority of everyone else is trying to NOT gain excess weight while not sabotaging post-Base training, there's guys like you who can't seem to keep enough weight ON you (and are probably bonking during things like Threshold work).

It's really, really simple: Stop eating low-calorie foods. Eat only calorie-DENSE foods. Put butter on everything that sounds good to have butter on it -- and try it on things you never thought of before. Use full-fat milk instead of low- or non-fat milk. Don't EVER eat or drink anythin with artificial sweeteners in it, get the stuff with (actual, not HFCS) sugar in it instead. Nevermind the boneless skinless chicken breast, mix in some beefsteak and fatty fish like salmon. EAT DESSERT. Hungry for a snack? Eat roasted nuts and dried fruit. Pizza sound good? Go for it! DO NOT UNDERFUEL YOUR RIDES, take 200-300kcal per bottle of carbs with you; maltodextrin works great. STILL can't manage to get enough high-quality protein? Get whey, preferably unflavored so you can put it in anything you can imagine to raise the calorie count and the protein count. USE YOUR IMAGINATION. Eat BACON. Go nuts! Eat all the things you've been told to never eat because they'll make you fat!

>>1077988
Are you racing? Then skip leg day or you'll sabotage your ability to produce force on the bike.

Not racing? Go nuts, do whatever you feel like.

>>1077988
If anything you should skip everything but leg day. Skip upper body day

Is there any way to stop suffering on climbs?
Today I pushed ~270-330W for an hour and felt pretty okay, but climbing at the same power is horrid. Why that?

>>1078218
Google "mental toughness".
They don't call cycling the 'sport of suffering' for nothing. If you can't find a way to *enjoy* the suffering, then you're doomed.

>>1078219
I enjoy 2-5 minutes of pure sufferfest again and again on 15-30% climbs (MTB-Racing), but 20 min of medium steep roadbike-climbing is plain exhausting. Thus I'm always in search of steeper but shorter onroad-climbs..
So, just to be sure: The only factor that plays a role is my mind not my fitness?

>>1078225
It could be that you're pushing a lower cadence while climbing, thus it's more of a muscular endurance effort than an aerobic one?

>>1078225
ride them more

>>1078225
I dunno, you tell me. 2-5 minutes at what intensity? Tempo? Threshold? Anaerobic? And 20 minutes at what intensity (same list). If you don't know then you can't say. You might have poor muscular endurance and therefore 2-5 minutes at Threshold is all you can stand, or maybe those 2-5 minutes is purely anaerobic, and you're trying to climb for 20 minutes at anaerobic intensity (which won't work; you can't sustain that). Frankly 5-6 minutes is about the right time frame for anaerobic.

You need to do some testing. If you haven't even been using a heart rate monitor then you'll need at least that in order to determine what your maximum sustainable heart rate is; a power meter would be better though. There are several different ways to test. You could do a 30-minute all-out time trial on flat ground, and take the average heart rate for the last 20 minutes as a fair estimate of your Threshold heart rate. You could use Chris Carmichaels' test, which is a structured warm-up routine followed by two 8-minute all-out intervals. Or, you could go get tested in a lab, which is more accurate, but it costs. If you don't want to do any of the above then that limits how much help anyone can give you because without some way other than RPE to gauge the level of intensity you're riding at in any given situation then it's really difficult to train in any really structured way.

Additionally we know basically nothing about you. You could have been training in a structured way all along and are not telling us that, or you could "just ride", thinking that's enough, and that any sort of structured training is just a meme. We don't know. So how about you tell us what you've been doing all this time?

>>1066469
how do you measure how good you are?
I've been riding rickety pile of crap bikes for most of my life and my legs are huge because of that so I figure it wouldn't take long to get to a competitive level when I get a good road bike now

>>1078467
If you plug in your weight and your bike weight to strava, then go up consistent hill, the estimated power will probably be fairly close to actual numbers.

That aside, you need a power meter on your bike, which starts around 400USD.

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>>1066413
>4.5 w/kg
i was at 5 when i was 14 cunt. only training for a year at that point.

>>1078467
>I figure it wouldn't take long to get to a competitive level when I get a good road bike now
..says every non-racer with aspirations, ever.

..so then you show up at a Cat-5 road race, having paid the extra fee for your 1-day license. Maybe you even seem to do fairly well. What you don't know is the other 49 guys you're riding with, half of which are already in team kit, are largely half-asleep, just wanting to get their 10 mass-starts in, so they can get their upgrade to Cat-4, and they're not even thinking about working hard, they just want to *finish*. What you also don't know is at least half of these guys haven't been doing anything like structured training, they've been 'just riding', emboldened by the group rides they go on several times a week; they're not anywhere near their athletic potential, not for years to come. It comes down to a pack 'sprint', using the word very loosely here because it's half-hearted at best; some of them don't even stand up on the pedals for it.

Time passes. You 'just ride' because that's what all the guys at the group rides, in their team kit, tell you is all that you need to do. You get your regular USAC annual license, you 'just ride' all winter, and you get through your 10 mass-start races without mishap, getting your free upgrade to Cat-4. You show up at your first Cat-4 race -- and get your ass handed to you by a combination of guys who have been Cat-4 for YEARS, not being quite good enough (or racing enough every year) to upgrade, the 'sandbaggers' who game the system so they don't HAVE to upgrade, and the guys who are going upgrade Real Soon Now because they really have the chops to do it. You're off the back after the second surge, or midway through the climb, and you wonder What The Fuck Happened Here?

The end of the story in the next comment..

>>1066473
>To put it another way: Is your 1-minute power on more-or-less the same line as 5-second, 5-minute, and FT?
i'm purely an endurance athlete, think of Tom Domoulin. I can sustain lots of watts for a long time, making my 5 minute and FTP figures correlate to a pro according to said chart(chart means shit, by the way). but my peak, 30s and 1 minute power are shit, correlating to a 3rd apparently.

I can hook it in any road race, i did a pretty heafty attack the otherday in race with pro riders, but got a cramp. In circuit crit-style races with pros, i only sit in, maybe making a dig or 2. Horses for courses, dont feel shit if you have crap peak numbers. but if you have crap sustained numbers, as long as you can stay with the peloton, just use it at the end and you should be golden.

>>1067018
where you based? i did 2/3 race yesterday and we have a crit on thursdays

>>1067102
sweet spot, conditioning, only train for your ftp.

epo too if you really want it.

>>1078555
Continued.

Let me jump to the End Of The Story for your benefit: Road racing is HALF athleticism and HALF knowing How To Race; you have to have BOTH halves of the equation in order to be successful, though, and while the athleticism is the easiest part of racing to attain, you still have to Do It Right or you'll fall apart in competition. In order to do that, you have to train like it's 2017, not 1917; we're on on fixed-gear bikes anymore, 'exercise science' is a Real Thing, and if you think not having some instrumentation to help you with your training, and that you don't need a coherent, rational Plan for training, then consider this: The other guys WILL, and you'll find out the hard way. The one exception to the above are the remarkably talented riders, who have the VO2max like a sled dog (i.e. like Lance did, even before he started cheating) who make it SEEM like 'training is a meme' -- but the fact of the matter is they're cheating *themselves* by not training right -- and even if you're not physically talented for endurance sports, training CAN bring up your stats a remarkable amount. Once you have solid training to bring you as close as possible to your potential, then comes the hard part: Learning how to RACE effectively. Some guys have an innate sense for it, most guys have to learn how to race effectively, but it's all like working on your high-speed technical descent skills, or working to be a better sprinter: you have to DO IT in order to get better at it. You can read all the books and articles you want, listen to all the podcasts you want, watch all the videos you want, but none of them will teach you how to race effectively, you have to DO IT yourself, make mistakes, get you ass handed to you over and over again, and you'll either sink or swim. Conventional wisdom says it takes up to 10 YEARS to become really proficient at ANY skill, and I believe this fully applies to road racing.

So that's my $0.02 worth.

>>1078556
Late to the party I see. :-)

Peak, 5s and 30s are more-or-less your ability to sprint, are purely anaerobic, and are absolutely the HARDEST area of your overall fitness to train, in part because they're (for most people) the most *painful* to train, and physiologically-speaking, the most *dangerous* to train.

My Peak power is pretty good; my 5m power is pretty good; my 1m power was a dip in the graph that didn't belong.

Since that post (more than a month ago) I've taken steps to correct the problem and address the weakness. Lactate tolerance reps are literally the least fun and most painful trianing you could possibly do, but I'm all about reaching my potential any way I can so I did them. I haven't tested my 1m power since then but I can tell my anaerobic endurance is better. Season's less than half over so I have even more time to work on it.

>>1078560
>epo too if you really want it.
EPO is a meme, unless you've already reached your potential and conventional training won't do anything more for you. Also shit might kill you. Not worth it.

>>1074163
>race a tt
>you wont want one

>>1078569
>ride regular road bikes for years
>get a decently high FTP
>decide you want to win TT's
>get a TT bike
>discover the horrifying truth about TT bikes: you're using every single muscle in your body differently than on a road bike, so it's almost like having to start over from Square One

>>1075554
im pretty sure that is tendinitis. gimmie more info on your injury, i've had a similar sounding injury and was informed i may need surgery. about 3 weeks later it had gone.

>>1078571
pretty much, it requires a lot of conditioning and stretching just to ride the fucking machine.

>>1078573
There are, I find, two schools of thought on this subject:
1. My ex-coach claims that you can't really maintain Threshold power in the aero position, so you maintain Tempo and end up faster anyway because you're aero.
2. You balance how aero you are with how 'comfortable' you are (i.e. how well you can continue to produce your maximum power) so far as how the bike is set up.

I went with #2 because it makes no sense that you'd get a special bike just for TTs, train at Threshold for TTs, and not be able to maintain Threshold for an entire TT. Over time I'll drop myself down a little bit at a time to improve aerodynamics but still be able to produce Threshold power over distance.

>>1078568
My 5s correlates with upper cat 2, my ftp is low domestic pro/high cat 1, i'm guessing my minute/5 minute are mid cat 2. I take the chart with a grain of salt though, I don't try to go into a race thinking that stuff because there are a LOT of people stronger than me at the am level.

by the way, to train your 1m you might try doing 30s intervals. Train the shorter interval to improve the longer one

>>1078576
>by the way, to train your 1m you might try doing 30s intervals. Train the shorter interval to improve the longer one
I was (and will be doing again) 90s intervals with about a 4 minute recovery between. Started with 4 of them, 5 the next week, and 6 the 3rd week, then I hit Recovery week.

>>1078575
interesting. I've never ridden a TT bike, and noone talks to me because the clique; i'm relaxed and treat it as fun instead of a fashion show or whatever.

I've seen peoples rides in TT's on strava and they had come 2nd in one to a pro. He had a full 10k tt bike but put out a pathetic 270 odd watt effort for a 10 mile tt/16km. He is about 180 cm tall. About 75kg.

I threw out 302 watts, was 15 or so at the time(don't even TT anymore) but I was like 170 cm at 60 kg. He put minutes into me. Minutes. My position isn't good, i can climb well because it requires no aero tuck.

Is that why I get destroyed in TT's back then? Simply the kit and position and not power?

>>1078576
>My 5s correlates with upper cat 2, my ftp is low domestic pro/high cat 1, i'm guessing my minute/5 minute are mid cat 2. I take the chart with a grain of salt though, I don't try to go into a race thinking that stuff because there are a LOT of people stronger than me at the am level.
also this.

like 8 minutes ftp efforts are good, do like 2-4 in 1 session.

chart means shit as i said.

>>1078579
There are more variables to consider. Your average power is one thing, but was the effort 100% consistent, or were there any instances at all where you slacked off for a second or two? Those will kill you in a TT.

..but yes the aerodynamics of your riding position make a huge difference in a TT. Otherwise you'd have guys on regular road bikes with clip-on bars doing as well as the guys with the $10k TT bikes.

So, it finally happened. I crashed. Big time.
I know this shit ain't my blog, but want to share what happened. Story tiem, stop reading if uninterested.

>be me, riding after a night of light drizzle, "it should be fine, lets go after those 2 KOMs i'm 2 seconds away from"
>ride the uphill section unaware of getting the KOM
>start riding the ups-n-downs through the local hills
>relaxed pace, dont want to push too hard
>get to the downhill section I want to attempt to get the other KOM
>gotta go fast
>50km/hr average (30mph for american'ts)
>road slightly more slippery than i'd want
>take a left hander corner somewhat a little bit too fast
>suddenly, lose traction, bike slides from under me
>fall into my left side, elbow, hip and head take the full impact (HOLY SHIT MAGIC HAT ACTUALLY PROTECTED ME)
>slide about 20 meters, road rash galore
>stop moving, suddenly moment of realization "holy fuck, what the hell did just happen?"
>start picking myself up, pick up water bottle, helmet visor (i'm a MTBer, i know visors are for fags, but still)
>pull over to the side of the road, bike in one piece, rider in one piece, all good
>suddenly pain
>realize i cant get myself home in this condition
>phone GF, HALP I CRASHED, limp the rest of the way down the hill, she picks me up, we go to the hospital.

0 11

>>1078620
You ride long enough, you crash. You race or do race-like things, itll happen sooner and maybe be more intense. Fact of life. Cycling is a hazardous sport.

>>1078677
this. i've gotten used to it to be honest. i no longer bank over and go "FUCK I MIGHT CRASH ARGHHHHHHHH".

It's more like "This could potentially hurt for a short while if I fuck up".

>>1078620
>>realize i cant get myself home in this condition
This is a false realization

>>1078778
Some things it pays to be cautious and conservative about. When you've been in a crash, adrenaline will mask much of the symptoms of your injuries, and just picking yourself up and continuing on could exacerbate those injuries from mild-to-modest into something major; you could theoretically go from something that'll take you a few days to a week at most to recover from, to something that'll take you a month or more to recover from.

>>1077988
heres my broscience I came up with from my own retarded (and probably wrong) observations

keep lifting weights and lifting heavy, and focusing on compound movements, my reasoning behind this is that cycling is heavily catabolic, lifting is not as catabolic but also when you lift, your body produces a lot more testosterone and HGH in order to recover than it does from cardiovascular exercise

my broscience is that lifting contributes to better recovery (and more watt gains) from riding if you are in a state of higher test/HGH production

Its something I feel that I have observed in training, no numbers or legit science to back it up though.

>>1079085
>broscience
>no numbers
Stop already

You do squats to increase your peak power output to get you up hills

>>1079085
FFS download CTB from the link at the top of the thread and read the section on Strength Training, stop guessing about things!

The purpose of strength training for a cyclist is twofold: One, to increase delivery of force to the pedals ('Force' being one of the three primary abilities, along with 'Endurance' and 'Speed Skills'). Two, to strengthen the supportive muscles/tendons/ligaments to prevent injury. Later on you use specific on-bike training to build Muscular Endurance (blending of Force and Endurance) so you can go faster, longer. Look in CTB for what specific strength training you should be doing as a cyclist, so you don't waste your time in the gym increasing your mass in ways that doesn't end up making the bike go faster (i.e. big biceps may look nice, but they do nothing to make you ride faster).

I did a 20 minute power test today and did 308 watts, which comes out to about 4.3 watts/kg. The software I use says that my FTP is around 290 watts or 4 watts/kg. I think its pretty good considering I started being serious about riding just under a year ago.

I'm still stuck on the lowest category in my country, and have only gotten into top 10 once so far, what should I try to improve other than power?

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Frick

>>1079179
depends. i work a lot on ftp and sustained power to get away from the group and win. if it comes to a sprint, i'm almost certain to be nearly last.

balance it, but look at increasing your sustainability/ftp. 4x8 minutes at ftp or slightly above work wonders.

russian steps too just if its crits, they can be nice.

30's efforts too, smash out 6-8 per session minimum and only work that if you do a session incorporating the 30's efforts.

But tempo is great, sweet spot is great, 8 minutes are fucking amazing and ensure to balance it with high end efforts too, but depends on your riding. I'd err on the side on sustained efforts; 8 minutes efforts are the way.

>>1079218
Seems good.

The races where I has the best chances has been the ones where I got into a breakaway.

Pretty much train to get better at getting away and staying in front

>>1078677
yes. it sucks, but I too have realized that as well. You bike long enough, shit will happen. Crashed on some gravel the other day - was a pretty slow crash but still got some pretty nasty cuts and pieces of gravel in my skin. Just part of the fun I suppose.

>>1079200
nice
unless you're dave

>>1079326
>unless you're dave
yes I'm fucking dave dude. Why do you hate me?

>>1079326
>Just part of the fun I suppose.
For various values of the word 'fun'.
'Fun', in the Chinese sense of the word. :-(

I've been riding motorcycles (road, not dirt) for a long, long time, and have had a few crashes on them. No broken bones but lots of road rash and soft tissue injury. The Awful Truth is: Crashes I've had on *bicycles* at speed were only slightly less bad.. And some people wonder why I'm a bit conservative on high-speed technical descents; I know goddamned well what'll happen to me if something fucks up, especially considering that wearing kit is the equivalent of being naked with regard to road rash (and other things pavement will do to me), even compared to what I'd be wearing riding a motorcycle.

>>1079421
>No broken bones but lots of road rash and soft tissue injury. The Awful Truth is: Crashes I've had on *bicycles* at speed were only slightly less bad..
Really? I have crashed dozens of times during bike races at 30-40mph and really road rash isn't bad. I had a few points where I was road rashed to the bone (paramedics seemed more concerned than me every time) and blood just flows down your arm to your hand so much you are slipping on the bars, or down a leg and fills up a shoe partly, but really you don't think much of it, since skin heals fast and doesn't really hurt THAT much. Or am I just a freak? I guess it comes with the territory.

>>1079392
because you post your strava shit constantly and still have no results from actual racing

>>1079508
>digital epo
it doesn't work out in the field. hence why he hasn't a result from real races.

>>1079485

Nah that's been my experience too, hyperbole notwithstanding. At the time the adrenaline and the endorphins you've already got pumping make it just not matter that much. If you're still on the bike two hours later it can really fucking suck though.

>>1079509
It me, Dave. Stop shit talk. Seriously man you are just jealous because I drop you constantly

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>>1079615
?
not him.
sober up dave and get to racing

To be honest, I wouldn't bother wasting my time on any of these automobile drivers. Automobile drivers usually lack anything that even remotely resembles basic human empathy. All they care about is getting from one place to another as quickly as possible with as little effort as possible because they're lazy and narcissistic. They care only about themselves and don't care that every time they operate a motorized vehicle they are putting innocent cyclists at risk. Disgusting. Car drivers, you aren't the only people that matter in this world, you know that right?

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>>1079615
post your face faggot

Ugh. 40km 4-man TTT tomorrow. At 4900 feet (I've lived at sea level my entire life). In 45 degree temperatures (it's been in the 80's for a month where I live), with a threat of rain (on a goddamned TT bike? Shit). With 3 guys I've never met. Wish me luck, lads, I'm going to need all of it I can get.
>How the fuck did I get talked into this?

>tfw you take a new KOM and grow your epeen by massive amounts

How many of you guys dope or have doped at some point in your life?

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>>1079616
>>1079797
actual Dave here, I know that no one cares but my knees remain pretty fucked, I can ride on them but only after a few days of rest and even then, max out at 30 miles tops at a power output similar to what I was putting out before injury. I did race for collegiate though, six races, (so only 3 weekends) two wins (meaningless ITT's), two 2nds (crits) and two 3rds (RR's), but all were Cat C

>>1080476
What's wrong with your knees Dave?

>>1080486
lingering damage from racing-overtraining, almost nonexistent stretching regiment, general disregard for warm-ups/cool down procedures, cleats (too far in/out), likely concatenated from using zero-float cleats prior to race season (though it did not hurt at the time) which all came to a sudden head in mid February. Have gotten an MRI and seen several orthopedic doctors who have said that the damage is mild, and can only be abated gradually (months) via a strict daily stretching regimen, anti-inflammatory supplements, icing, and complete removal of high-GI foods (I've drastically removed sugar & artificial sweeter intake) It's been slow going (4 months now) because I get an idiotic false confidence every time the pain even somewhat dissipates- right now it's mostly focused on the insides of both knees. It's been incredibly frustrating, that much is sure.

>>1080454
Never. Unless you're a world-tour-class Pro rider at the top of your game and the peak of your potential, you're pathetic if you use that shit.

>>1080491
So it's like meniscus wear or something?

>>1080491
>complete removal of high-GI foods
Curious, why is this necessary? Inflammation?

>>1080513
Chrondomalacia patella, aka 'runner's knee' to a moderate/advanced state. Alternatively I have been trying to keep my aerobic capacity from deteriorating through swimming, but swimming is an awful and frustrating activity in the absence of good form, which is my case. Alternatively I am looking into customized shoe inserts for my cycling shoes, because I know that exactly where my foot transmits the force has led to knee sensitivity, after all it only take a few millimeter off to degrade joints immensely

>>1080515
There was a period of a few months where I consumed 25-30 Splenda packets daily without fail- I kept it as a designated 'vice' knowing how bad it must be, but only later when I read through some journals about just how terrible artificial sweeteners are for people with arthritis and joint pain via sustained inflammation incurred, yes

>>1080476
nice bike but obnoxious bottle

You have a good cautionary tale, dave. I have kind of a janky fit on my road bike and I fear one of my knees is getting a bit touchy. I should get a real fit if, as you say, even millimeters count for cleat placement.

>>1080492
Apparently it's pretty rampant in amateur masters races. Old men gotta get some glory somehow.

>When somebody says fixies aren't more dangerous than freewheel bikes, "it's how you use it" seconds before clipping the curb with his pedal and doing a sick skid.

Sure showed me.

>>1080520
>aerobic capacity from deteriorating through swimming, but swimming
Ah yeah that's lame. I'm actually looking into swimming for this offseason. But I'm definitely going to get a coach to teach me form and stuff if I do.

>>1080520
all you need to do to get rid of that is stretch your hamstrings

the hamstrings wrap around your knee athe bottom of the hamstring and when it gets tight it yanks on the patellar tendon

you should not have to have everything within a mm of tolerance on the bike

bike fits, shims, float, etc its all to get your money

stretch your hamstrings (stretch glutes, hams, calves, psoas, and IT band

I bet you don't stretch

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>>1075839
GET OFF IT GET OFF GET OFF GET OFF IT

>>1081076
I've been on a stringent stretching regimen (30-45 minutes per evening) for the past few months as per physical therapy suggestions, which address your mentioned muscle groups. I'm icing twice a day, 15 minutes per icing out of habit now.

>>1075554
Wah. Youll have to get a real job

>>1081219
Fuck you kid. And go fuck yourself I don't really care what you think. But I will tell you this: if you decide that you're going to come confront me physically about it, you better not be a fucking Pog. You better be a stone cold killer. If you come at me aggressively, voice raised negative body language, as someone who I know is a trained killer. Because I don't flinch anymore when I hear a rifle round come by my head, when I hear that WHOOP and that snap or that sonic boom. I haven't flinched in 20 years from that shit. I got over that a long time ago. So if you come at me I want you to know son: it's not gonna be me who goes in the ground. I'm still here. I'm still upright and drawing air.

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FTP test yesterday. Boosted my FTP by 35 watts in 10 weeks. And with a rocky year of injury and other life issues preventing me from training until February, I'm the fittest I've ever been.

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How do I get a big base

I've been trying to ride 3 hours a day at 160bpm but I keep getting tired and have to take a day off

I started feeling real light headed and all floaty today

I want to be able to ride 60-80 miles a day like its nothin

I'm 119 lbs and average power is around 160w

>>1081223
>he actually thinks he could've won the tour de france

>>1081855
>>1081855
1. Get good nutrition, drink water/isotonic drinks (depending on the temp and how youre going 1,5l-3l) and eat some snickers e.g. When you feel thirst or hunger, it's most of the time too late to compensate the imbalance.
2. Don't overdo it. Begin slowly. Most of the pros drive just with 120-140 bpm for 3-5 hours. There's a reason its called "base training". And, if you are new to biking, give your body time to adapt.
3. Do you know your Threshold Heartrate? It helps you very much to stay in the aerobic zone when you know it.
Keep on riding :)

>>1081855
maybe 20 minute blocks at 160bpm, maybe even sweet spot(better adaptations, increases FTHR/FTP but also produces more fatigue and you will need a bit of fitness for it). but sitting at that for that long is a noob mistake. fuck your average speed in the ass, it means nothing. miles doesn't either; it's HR, Watts and time that are the main pieces of information you need.

don't use strava for daily shit, only for days you go for KoM's. get a power meter and a coach. otherwise don't listen to most of people, especially the internet. people hear stuff, it turns into Chinese whispers. info changes.

i member a lad who overtrained like fuck because "it will help me in a few years". he quit after a year of saying that because he always felt tired. he is the sort of person most shit comes from.

get a coach of gtfo

>>1081907
this nigga the truth mane

>>1081855
>How do I get a big base
By creating a sane training plan and sticking to it
>I've been trying to ride 3 hours a day at 160bpm but I keep getting tired and have to take a day off
Oh for fucks' sake, NOBODY DOES THAT, THAT'S STUPID
>I started feeling real light headed and all floaty today
Gee guess why, genius? Because you're trying to ride for HOURS at or above your ventilary threshold; you're literally KILLING yourself
>I want to be able to ride 60-80 miles a day like its nothin
Sure, you can do that -- but not at a heart rate of 160bpm!
>I'm 119 lbs and average power is around 160w
You're an obvious NOOB.
Either get a training plan that makes sense, or go pay a coach to manage your training before you literally kill yourself.

>>1081982
>>>I've been trying to ride 3 hours a day at 160bpm but I keep getting tired and have to take a day off
>Oh for fucks' sake, NOBODY DOES THAT, THAT'S STUPID

Heart rate is way too variable to categorically say that, desu. His max could be 210 or something stupid and 160 could be barely breaking tempo.

My longest rides (8 hours) have average 150. Sound like they might not be fuelling and drinking properly desu.

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>>1081926
yeah, that's why you get a coach and take internet comments with a pinch of salt. to be fair, i also study sport science so i can instantly debunk most bullshit.

>>1082053
When someone says "I'm riding for 3 hours with a HR of 160" and "I'm feeling light-headed and floaty" in the same post then I'm thinking it's safe to say they're pushing it TOO HARD.

>>1082084
>that's why you get a coach
Or go read and understand a book written by a well-known coach so you can make your own plan without fucking up as much.

I want to train myself to survive long, steady climbs (15km+) in the Alps. My goal is to reach the peak of the mountains in one go, for example the Galibier. I don't need to go fast, I just want to be able to make it to the top

Unfortunately I live in a land that is flat like a pancake so I have no real means to test myself. I don't have a powermeter, but I do have a HRM. How should I train to get to my goal? Should I just ride high-effort 30km-rides on the flat to try and replicate the effort level?

>>1082114
>survive long, steady climbs (15km+) in the Alps
Get a 42 on the back

>>1081907
>>1081884

Some pertinent info-


My max HR is 205
162-165 is the top end of my Z2
Threshold tends to be around 190bpm
VO2Max around tends to be around 200


these zones all drop by about 10 bpm when I get fit

I've always had decent 5 minute power (Highest I ever saw was 316w for a little over 6 minutes at 120lbs)


I've always had horrendous Z2 power, maybe after a couple months of steady 10-15 hours a week its around 180w

>>1082115
>needing 42
>needing anything above 30
This is the Bike Training and Racing thread, not the fat NEETs try out cycling for the first time thread.

>>1082114
You want to get your FTP up for long climbs. And learn to suffer. On a flat it's easy to take it easy when you are getting tired. If you want to go up long steep climbs without stopping you might not have that opportunity.

>>1082053
How much should I eat and drink on a steady Z2 ride of about 3-4 hours?

>break derailleur hanger
>don't have a spare one
>order 2 from Canyon to have a spare one in future
>have to wait 1 - 2 weeks to get the new ones
I guess I'm riding my shitty commuter cx bike then for a few weeks. On a positive side it was a good excuse to order an out from mount for my Garmin that fits the Canyon aerobars so I don't have to use the ugly as fuck stem mount.

>>1082115
I've got a 48/32 front and 11/32 back on my bike so I think that's a very forgiving gearing

>>1082121
>If you want to go up long steep climbs without stopping you might not have that opportunity
He'll have that ability if he has low enough gearing. He didn't say he was going to race. If he's going solo or touring with friends why not take it easy and improve over time without ripping yourself to shreds when you don't really have any real reason to?

>>1082119
>still thinks internet strangers will help more than a coach
get a coach

Riding a 240 km event tomorrow.
Forecast for the start line is 2 degrees and raining.
Forecast for the mountain is sleet and a headwind.
How much am I going to suffer?

>>1082202
How much of a pussy are you?

>>1082114
What I generally recommend to someone who is interested in cycling for performance, but not necessarily for racing, is go through the 3 months of Base training. For bonus points, spend time pre-Base in the gym doing cycling-specific strength training first. Either way by the time you're done with Base, you'll be in the best shape for cycling you've ever been in, and so long as you don't care about climbing fast, you should be able to climb any ascent with confidence.

Alternately you could do the 'just ride/just ride more/just climb more' training plan, which has no real structure to it, and you'll probably improve. But you likely won't improve as much as if you have some structure. I personally think that a very structured training plan is best for someone who has never trained before.

>>1082122
>How much should I eat and drink on a steady Z2 ride of about 3-4 hours?
That, at least, is an easy question to answer.
100 to 300kcal of easily-digested carbohydrates per hour for any ride exceeding 1.5 hours in length, preferably in your water bottles. 200kcal per hour will work for most, especially if you're the same skinny guy who has been posting. If you're riding over 3 hours steady then some protein won't hurt either. There are plenty of endurance fuels on the market that have what you need in them already, go check them out.

>>1082119
1. How are you arriving at these HR ranges?
2. If you've got a power meter on your bike, why are you even bothering with HR, except for your Morning Resting Heart Rate (MRHR)?

>I've always had horrendous Z2 power, maybe after a couple months of steady 10-15 hours a week its around 180w
Do you mean it's LOW? That's because you're out killing yourself off doing hard ride after hard ride, thinking you're doing 'Base Training', when you (apparently!) have SKIPPED BASE COMPLETELY. If this is you, then you're making one of the most common mistakes that cyclists make: you're starting in on the interval work WAY too soon.

YOU NEED A PLAN. GET ONE before you wreck yourself.

DOWNLOAD AND READ THE BOOK. The link is at the top of the thread. MAKE A PLAN OR GET A COACH.

>>1082202
Do you have appropriate clothing? Or are you going to be freezing and soaked to the bone the entire time?

If you can't dress appropriately for the weather I'd think about staying home. Pneumonia sucks.
>150 miles in below freezing temperatures when it's going to snow and you'll be in high winds the entire time
Where the actual fuck is this?

>>1082260
don't listen to this guy

he is fucking retarded by his advice

>>1082263
Canberra maybe? -1 celsius is their low tomorrow and there are mountains around there

otherwise maybe norway or some shit. maybe Alaska lol

>>1082268
>not having a plan and just making up shit as you go is somehow better
trolololol

For a beginner should I be focusing on maintaining a particular cadence or worry more about going fast?

Also, is it just an accumulation of miles or should I be looking at some other progression?

>>1082345
What path your 'training' takes depends entirely on what your goals are.

>>1082366
I want to win the tour of france

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>>1082205
>>1082263
Nevermind, race was canceled due to 3 inches of snow at the start line.
Just business as usual in northern Canada.
Hopefully my phone doesn't post the pic upside down.

>>1082432
Eh, sideways, good enough.

>>1082375
Step #1: Get Cyclists Training Bible, start reading.

Went to Hellyer Park Velodrome today for their novice track riding clinic, then hung around for the intermediate clinic. Was lots of fun.

What do you guys think about having a track bike and using it for some of your Fall Base training rides?

>>1082432
Where is this? It was nice up in Grande Prairie about a week ago. Whitehorse?

>>1082538
Do you mean doing base on the track or doing base on the road on a track bike? If the latter, fucking retarded.

>>1082605
>he actually thinks track riders only ever ride their track bikes on a track, never on the street, to train
Do you even OWN a bike? Seems you're the one who's retarded. Fuck you, I going to do it, I think it's a great idea.

>>1082132
>canyon
gtfo noob

>>1082553
Close, Haines Junction, YT.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/kluane-chilkat-bike-relay-canceleld-1.4165844

https://www.scott-sports.com/au/en/products/249659025/SCOTT-Addict-30-Bike

thoughts on this as my first race bike sale season and im sick of being a casual