Brightline

>>1058831
Okay? Too bad Florida turned down all that HSR study funding when it was available.

>>1058850
eh, its better than nothing.Plus they have made a few offhand comments about possibly making an extension to Jacksonville sometime after Orlando which makes a little sense since FEC's (parent company) headquarters is located in Jacksonville so assuming its true and depending on if there isn't to many speed restrictions, we might see it have a faster average speed than the Acela Express

>>1058855
> eh, its better than nothing.
Well, I can't argue that.

>Phase II aka the Orlando Leg was set for earlier 2018 but is up in thin air now thanks to some of the counties along the route.
What's the fucking point of all this if it doesn't go to Orlando.

>>1058863
It will go to Orlando Brightline has made that clear, the only thing up in thin air is when it will happen since the initial lawsuits from some of the counties as well as a more recent bill that if passed will force Brightline to pay for and install even more safety requirements despite already having the OK from the FRA that could delay it for a undisclosed amount of time.

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>>1058831

What will Brightline have in terms of services (classes, specialized seating, dining service etc.)?

While I'm not expecting Orient-express tier restaurant service, it would nice to go bar hopping like I do every long-distance passenger train I ride (seriously, I've had beer on the Eurostar, Sierra Dinner Train, and more Amtrak trains I can count).

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>>1058945
As far as I can tell, for classes there's going to be two main ones, one business one luxury with the biggest difference between the is seats/legroom as well as some minor differences.

For food, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure they'll have an onboard trolly offering complementary food and drink but I don't think they'll have a dining car initaly.

>>1058831
Anyone want to guesstimate how much the initial ticket price is going to cost.

I'm gonna bet around 30-40 bucks for the standard class from West Palm to Fort Lauderdale

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I love their rolling stock choice. 2 locos and a rake of coaches, just like the Intercity 125 from the 70s. Makes a change from all the multiple units these days. To me, units are not proper trains and never will be.

Anybody know if Brightline will have amenities for bicycles?

I want to ride Brightline some day and ride my bike around Miami. Kind of pissed that I might wait over 2 years just to get the Orlando connection, but driving to WPB and riding the train to Miami would suffice, I guess.

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>>1059181
Yep

>>1059204
Aw yeah

>>1058831

Brightline is going to Orlando.

reason: Disney

>>1059252
You know I am actually surprised that Disney hasn't lobbied for some sort of train stop on their property.

>>1059271
Direct train access to Disney would certainly create a lot of ridership. It's also not as if WDW hasn't had experience in dealing with multi-modal passenger services before.

>>1059271

Great America did that with Amtrak and Caltrain

>>1059271
I think they already have a shuttle type system going to Orlando international airport where is where the Orlando stop for brightline is going to be eventually, or am I confusing them for Universal

>>1059271
>>1059283
>>1059284
>>1059313
I'm from Orlando and from what I know, the airport is building a new south terminal complex complete with an intermodal train station that will serve 4 lines - a people mover to the north terminal, Brightline, a spur line for the SunRail commuter train, and a proposed light rail line (maglev was rejected not too long ago) that would go to the International Drive area and convention center.

Disney uses their own buses - Disney Magical Express. It brings guests and their luggage directly from the airport to Disney. Walt Disney World has a great transit system (monorails, buses, ferry boats, shuttles, ect., they are also rumored to be designing gondola cable cars as opposed to expanding the monorail) that easily puts our local Lynx buses and SunRail to shame.

Having said all of this, Disney is rather stubborn when it comes to working with transit that they don't directly operate. They would actually be opposed to rail going to their park unless it was an express line that makes no stops between the airport and their parks, because they don't want to lose tourists to competitors. In that case, they would have to build the rail line themselves and it's just a whole lot cheaper to run buses than trying to get new ROW through the sprawled out mess that is greater Orlando. Maybe in the future if Brightline extends to Tampa they might try to propose a stop at Disney Springs or something.

>>1058855
>extension to Jacksonville
That would be interesting, but the main questions for the possible route involve:
How long would they want the travel time to be? I imagine they would shoot for an hour or so faster than driving just like the Orlando leg. anyone here know what the average driving time is between Jacksonville and Miami? As well as needing to know how much do they need to upgrade the tracks to get the required travel time and knowing how many stations to have and where to put them.

>>1059284
Caltrain doesn't serve Great America. ACE train does.

>>1058831
Probably highly unlikely but imagine if they tried to make an extension to Key West

>>1058831

Brightline is the great cager BTFOing of our time. As soon as this thing proves it's viable for private entities to run and earn a profit on passenger rail, it's ALL over for the cagers. They might be able to vote to stop Amtrak and whatever else, but they can't stop a private company, and once that happens railroads will be much more central to the US again. I for one am looking forward to it.

>>1058831
>Diesel trains
Why didn't they just go all out and put in some over head electric wires, it would of saved them money in the long run.

> moving to Melbourne in a few months for work
> was looking forward to using Brightline to get to Orlando Amtrak
> mfw I'm living in a city without a train station

It hurts, man.

>>1059781
>electrification of railroads
>would of
Did you eat paintchips for breakfast?

>>1059828
Lunch actually

But still if there going to run a passenger service why not set it up like the NEC with an overhead wire powering the train

Bit old intonation but the proposed bill that would probably delayed the Orlando leg might be dead in the water.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-brightline-bill-may-die-in-house-20170328-story.html

>>1059859
Because it's a freight railroad that owns the damn track. Because overhead electric is expensive and pointless in an area that frequently gets hurricanes.

Stop munching on those paintchips.

>>1059872
True but said freight railroad that owns the damn track also owns brightline and they can still run freight with overhead wires, I'm just saying that if there running 32 trains a day it would probably cost a lot less in the long run.

However I can see why they didn't put any at the begging not per say of cost but because it would of taken a lot more time to get the system up and running which probably would of been much worse

Though I'm still kind of willing to bet in 10-15 years of service, there might be some form of talk about electrifying the line

>>1059921
Why would you add something expensive to install and maintain when it won't help your primary business?

>>1059865

>Citizens Against Rail Expansion in Florida

jesus this is almost as bad as Atherton

>>1060036
That's why I said maybe at best in 10-15 years since if everything not only goes according to but surpasses projections, brightline could start rivaling there freight businesses in terms of profit

So any chance of Amtrak using the same Rolling Stock as Brightline to replace the aging Amfleets and Genesis locos?

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>>1060119
yeah Amtrak has bought chargers for routes in Illinois, California, Michigan, Missouri and Washington and are testing them right now (although they wont have the false noses at the front like the brightline trains) as well as MARC (Maryland Area Regional Commuter) buying some as well and the state of MN is possible going to buy some as well assuming the proposed line from the twin cities to Duluth gets up and running

>>1059865
>>1060054
There's a pro-rail Youtube channel that investigated this organization, Citizens Against Rail Expansion, ironically acronymized as CARE. There might be some collusion from the airline industry to kill high speed rail projects, because more high speed rail can mean the death of short haul flights in the long run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4miqOGWZIsI

>>1058831
is that a fucking freight loco at the other end

every fucking time

>>1060209
Tbf they had to transport the train set from California to Florida somehow and I don't don't think they would of been to keen on the idea of having to have there new rolling stock making the 1000 or so mile journey without any assistance for a few reasons

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What's the fucking point of Brightline when it doesn't even go to Orlando yet?

I can buy a $2.50 ticket from Tri Rail to get from Miami to West Palm Beach.

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>>1060119

here's more information on the subject then you'd ever want:

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/pages/section305committee.aspx

tl;dr:

CA, IL, WA, MD, MI, MO are getting Siemens Chargers, all of which have been delivered on time.

Those same states also ordered new bilevel coaches from Nippon Shayro, but the original design had to be dumped when the FRA raised their minimum compression standard from 785,000 lbf to 800,000 lbf. This set everything back four years, and NS is still working on getting a prototype car passing the standards then into production. Also 2008 PRIIA money runs out next year.

>>1060166

>because more high speed rail can mean the death of short haul flights in the long run.

this is a thing most airlines want though, since it frees up gate space

except southwest (because they make so much money off las vegas)

>>1060209
>>1060225
The loco hauling the Brightline train set is there to take any frontal damage that might occur in the journey from Denver? or wherever they were made out west to Florida. So basically it's there to take any damage from things such as idiots stopping their car on railroad tracks.

>>1060267
No, it's because they hauled it as part of a damn train. The UP and other railroads aren't going to run that engine. In fact, they'll usually add stuff like this to the head end of another regular train.

I swear that most people on /n/ that call themselves railroad experts and enthusiasts have no fucking idea about how trains are run.

>>1060241
Time really, it takes about 2 hours by Tri Rail from Miami to West Palm Beach where it will take about 1 hour by brightline which is probably about 10 minuets faster than driving depending on traffic.

>>1060257
I can see why american would be the most apposed though since they alone operate around 185 flights per month from Orlando to Miami 168 per month vise-versa.

>>1059160
>what are steam railcars
>what were the emus built by the British southern railway in the 1930s
>what was the burlington zephyr

Units are what trains were always MEANT to be, limited design/construction possibility

>>1060481
Meant that the motive power had to be separated from the rest of the train, hence the locomotive

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OK brightline just posted an update on there west palm beach station and I'm gonna dump some of the images they shared

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>>1060493

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>>1060494

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>>1060495

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>>1060496

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>>1060497

>>1060493
I'm in the area everyday and the construction is coming along nicely.

>>1060119

Probably very low at the moment since President Trump is trying to slash their budget. Although he'll almost certainly fail (Amtrak offers the only substantial rail service to many rural states that vote Republican), the likelihood that he'll approve any increase in their budget is next to none.

>>1060609

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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>>1060609
Amtrak has already purchased the chargers though, quite a few videos of them testing them on YouTube

https://youtu.be/kFJ7xbXvOxo

Although at first glance the trump budget will only only kill the long haul routes (empire builder, zephyr, etc) so the routes like the ones around Chicago and the NEC should be safe but if it ends up being wrose than that pic related is definitely not going to happen

In related news brightline has started a small campaign to tell students the somewhat obvious fact that its probably a bad idea to walk along its train tracks.

http://malled.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2017/04/04/brightline-school-officials-warn-students-to-keep-off-train-tracks/

>>1060801
Jesus those Amfleets are anachronistic as fuck compared to the Cities Sprinters and Chargers.

>>1060801
So why does America tend to go for TGV derivatives instead of shinkansen models?

>>1060609
He is also trying to cut funding for the essential air service program.

>>1060166
Short haul flights are the least profitable for airlines. Freeing up gate slots for longer distance flights and more city pairs benefits everyone.

>>1061196
Don't know but funny thing hapened a while ago with Texas Central Railway that is using shinkansen models for its proposed Dallas to Huston route where a lawmaker who wanted to stop it assumed only Japanese trains can run on tracks built with Japanese technology so there proposed a bill saying that any rail company must have track that can allow any type of train to run.

You can imagine how far that got.

>>1061248
My favorite is still when a group tried to argue that TCR wasn't a railroad and didn't have dominion rights to survey there land

>>1061248
Really? Has the fool never heard of standard gauge? Then again we're talking about lawmakers, they're expected to be stupid and follow orders from their superiors/lobbyists.

>>1061248
>>1061329

From what I read they invited some dude from sncf to speak that said that Japanese trains are wider bodied so that the platforms would have to be wider than usual. This is regardless of everything being standard gauge.

>>1061434
Oh so the fool had never heard of loading gauge.

>>1058831
>Predicted Ridership: 3 million per year

Alright strawpoll time, does /n/ think brightline will succeed or fail to meet its predicted ridership
http://www.strawpoll.me/12693428

>>1061474

To be fair, that's not actually unreasonable. Do the Japanese have a different loading gauge?

>>1061777
Standard Shinkansen is 3.4 metres wide while mini Shinkansen is 2.95 metres wide (typical European train width)

>>1058831
>line runs ~100km though a densely populated area with 5,5 mil people
>three stops
>no regional and commuter services

???
do they expect their customers to do P+R at both ends of their journey? To me it would be incredibly obvious to install a new commuter line along the route, both to boost ridership for the express service and to cash in the commuter revenue. Why aren't they doing that?

>>1061833
There's already a commuter rail in the area called tri rail that serves much more stops and brightline is going to connect with it, metromover and metrorail at a new Miami station.

>>1061844
I wouldn't be surprised if some people with more flexible incomes are willing to take Brightline for commuting, especially if they work/live closer to the downtowns of WPB, FL, and MIA, since it will (1) be faster; and (2) not require a haul out to/from I-95 for a train.

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>>1061844
i just looked and the tri-rail wiki page says tey're planning to run commuter services on both lines in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-Rail#Extensions_and_upgrades

>>1061700

In its current state it is just an excuse to build condos in Miami over the station. If Orlando happens then it might be successful.

>>1061833

Tri-rail coastal link will run the same line for commuters. This whole project only exists to get Brazilians from Miami to Orlando so they can go to Disney.

>>1061700
I'm gonna say not initaly since the 3 million is probably factoring in Orlando but I could be wrong since tri rail gets about 4.2 million a year

>>1061474
on a somewhat related note iirc brightline had a similar issue with loadings gauge as well. I remember reading an article saying the FEC fright would be to large to pass through the stations so I think they had to do some magic or something with the track to be able to fit both types of trains and installing this on all of the passenger cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKd7NqsxFWo

>>1062334
Oh neat. I'm actually really happy about how accessible they're trying to make these trains.

and a wild meme appears to take a shot at bankrupting brightline where lawmakers have failed

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-to-orlando-hyperloop-proposed-by-florida-department-of-transportation-officials-9261976

>>1058850
The biggest issue with any train coming to Tampa is we have no decent mass transit. You can't even catch a bus from Tampa/Hillsborough county to St Pete, Clearwater or any of the popular beaches. Do they just expect everyone to rent a car and clog up our already crowded roads? What's the fucking point of having a train come here if there's no way to get anywhere people want to go like Busch Gardens or Clearwater Beach? I say this as a Clearwater native who's sick and tired of this shit.

>>1062750
Are you a scientologist?

>>1062817
No lol

Do you guys think they'll add a Treasure Coast station or two?

>>1062915
Maybe, but the biggest issue with a fifth station is that how much it'll slow down the total travel time between Miami and Orlando by decelerating, waiting
at the station for passengers to get off or on, and accelerating back to speed could cost a decent amount of time so the only work around for it either are

A.upgrade the tracks from either Miami to WPB or form WPB to Cocoa that have speed limits of 79 and 110 mph respectively so to save enough time for the additional station

B. Have a non express train that stops at every station and the normal express one speed through that can either be ran by brightline themselves or through tri rail/sunrail

This is a cycling board. What are you doing here?

>>1063054
Is the WPB-Miami speed limit because of the track itself or the extremely suburban enviroment and numerous at-grade crossings?

>>1063175
I'm gonna guess its the latter but I don't know the tracks so I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if there would be a few sections they could upgrade to save time, mainly if there's any curves they can bank so the trains don't have to slow down when entering it.

>>1063087
>This is a cycling board.
Who let the moron in?

>>1063175
Rail right of way still has plenty of at-grade crossings despite being decently linear. I think the trains are limited to 79mph while going over crossing. I'm assuming this is some regulation in Florida because Tri-Rail in Miami and SunRail in Orlando are limited to 79mph.

>>1063303
They should grade separate all crossings and bank curves eventually but I don't know if they ever will.

>>1063558
79 mph is the speed limit for trains without cab signals.

49 mph is dark territory.

>All these retarded rail plebs that know nothing.

>>1063603
I'm pretty sure brightline has cab signals since there after leaving WBP it will get up to 110 mph then at Cocoa it will be able to reach its max speed of 125 mph intill it arrives at Orlando.

>>1060149

Thats good to see. I have seen two broken down cascades locos in the past month. One sat in local railyard blocking the secondary line for two weeks. South side of the cascades had a UP that morning.

>eugene, or

>>1058831
Anyone know if brightline is only going to have a direct connection with Trirail at Miami Central or if its going to also have a direct connection with metro rail and metromover as well?

I've seen a fair bit of articles that seem to contradict each other depending on what day of the week it is.

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wonder if and or when Brightline will official release models of there train sets, cause not gonna lie I might buy some if they do.

>>1059155
old article so good chance its probably change by now but a round trip Miami to Orlando was estimated around $188 for coach and $286 for business class.

http://www.wesh.com/article/brightline-to-connect-orlando-with-miami-1/4445921

>>1063612

Station in Melbourne or Cocoa when?

>>1069979
probably once phase 1 is complete and the lawsuits from the treasure coast are dealt with.

>>1061178
The Amfleets really do need to be replaced and I suspect the Viewliner will be the basis for the Amfleet III (if CAF can finish making the damn things)

http://malled.blog.mypalmbeachpost.com/2017/05/10/federal-judge-dismisses-lawsuit-over-bonds-for-all-aboard-floridas-brightline/

>Brightline claim they "won" since the judge threw out the lawsuits by CARE and the treasure coast counties.
> CARE and the treasure coast counties claim they "won" since brightline can't sell $1.75 billion in bonds.

anyone else a bit confused

>>1060241
There's no way to even get to a tri-rail station without lyft/uber/taxi since there are no bus stops anywhere in broward

>>1071979
Not at all. The DoT rescinded the bond offer and AAF was okay with that since they wanted a smaller bond amount anyways. The judge dismissed the case because the counties were challenging the original bonds which is moot if they don't exist. They'll have to file another suit if they want to prevent AAF from selling bonds still.

AAF was the real winner, but it's not a major victory.

>>1072004
so the NIMBY's are just trying to save face and pretend there still relevant, good to know. Although now that I think about it are there any major legal barriers left standing?

So NIMBYs got BTFO or what?

>>1068017
>188
But a bus to Orlando costs like 20 bucks. No one is going to ride this train.

>>1072050
It's intended to compete with Miami-Orlando flights and serve a generally wealthier clientele. The trains will have features that are comparable to what is found in airplane flights.

Yes, you could pay the bus and get there in double the time stuck in Miami traffic, in a more uncomfortable ride with more stops factored in, not to mention the buses are usually filled with low class people, druggies, and the homeless.

>>1072050
True but a bus will take you around 5 hours. The 188 was roundtrip so one way would be 94, and the article is a bit old so prices may be different. Plus most recent articles have them saying they are aiming to be around the price of driving which is around 22-23 in gas alone with the other biggest cost being you have to go though tolls which any Florida anons want to give a estimate of how much you have to pay on the turnpike from Miami to Orlando.

>>1072082
>which any Florida anons want to give a estimate of how much you have to pay on the turnpike from Miami to Orlando.
My time to shine

It depends on where you get on the turnpike as it runs parallel to I-95 near Fort Pierce to Miami. I do the trip maybe once or twice a year, but I come from the opposite direction (Orlando to Miami). Round trip from the beginning of the the Turnpike in Miami to Orlando is going to cost $25-30 in tolls alone. My car's pretty efficient with gas so I expect to pay no more than $40-50 on gas for the roundtrip. This is providing I'm not carrying anyone else or a lot of cargo. Plus general wear and tear on my car, I'd say I spend around $100 for the round trip, as a high estimate.

$188 is a bit high in my opinion, I would gladly pay up to $150 for a roundtrip though, if I'm traveling alone.

>>1072268
Like I said initially its a old article (over 2 and a half years) so there's a good chance the estimate is off by now, plus I know they are for sure going to offer monthly and yearly rail passes and I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like what the UK does with there "advanced, off-peak, and anytime" system

>>1060166
Shit, that's a great yt channel.

>>1060279
Not everyone lives in a country where the only form of rail is a freight oligopoly

There was an event earlier today at the West Palm Beach station were Brightline gave a tour of the station to a select number of people. Lots of new photos of the interior and exterior but probably won't dump them all cause its a little late for me.

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>>1075297

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>>1075299

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>>1075301

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>>1075302

>>1075299
I'm glad the stations have a consistent style, rather than trying to make each station unique. Should really help to build a brand awareness.

>>1062750
This.

I love HSR, but you need a car in every Florida city.

>>1072053
Who the hell flies from Miami to Orlando? You'll need a car in both those cities. Might as well drive a few hours instead of fucking around at the airport and rental car place.

>>1072082
IIRC it's less than $20 in tolls from the Northern terminus to Miami. A tank of gas is about $40.

>>1076657
>cagers
>having common sense
Pick one

>>1076659
Maybe if you drive gas guzzling bro-dozer it would cost $40 for gas. If you have to spend that much to go 240 miles, that means you're getting 13.8 mpg, and that's mostly on the highway. That's fucking abysmal.

>>1076657
There are specific cases where flying between Orlando and Miami makes sense. I'll list down one of my own: I live in the Orlando area, and I usually get relatives that come stay at my place so they can see the theme parks and shop. Once I've had a relative that wanted to see both Miami and Orlando. I hosted her in Orlando and a friend of theirs happened to live in Miami. Now she didn't have a license so she was stuck with having people driving her around. She came to Orlando first and did the rounds at Disney and when it came time to head to Miami she bought a plane ticket because a)she didn't have a license b)I wasn't going to waste 8-9 hours driving to Miami and back c)she would not take the Greyhound bus to Miami. She was kind of loaded anyways so the plane ticket wasn't a big deal.

It's a specific instance, but I'm sure plenty of people have traveled between the two cities and have people on both ends to drive them around. Even if they rent cars in both cities, many people just simply hate driving but don't want to take a bus either. I've driven between the two cities a few times on my own for work and recreational reasons, I hate driving but I bear through it because I feel like I'm going to waste more time at the airport and plane than just driving. Plus I wouldn't pay for a flight and rental car if I could.

>>1076657
I'm gonna guess partly for the some of the same reason why people fly from New York to DC albeit on a less smaller scale

There was a Q and A with the executive directer of Brightline's parent company Florida East Coast Industries
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/biz-monday/article152781004.html

>Q: Describe the scope of this project.

>A: We’re introducing a new alternative form of transportation that we think ultimately will change the way people think about the proximity of things and also change the way they go about doing some of the most important things of their daily lives. Whether it is for business travel or leisure travel, we’re creating a new way for them to think about how they get around in their life.

>Q: Take us back to that moment that you acknowledged this asset that Florida East Coast Industries has had for decades could be turned from cargo traffic to something that is more consumer-oriented.

>A: Almost from the moment that passenger service stopped on the Florida East Coast Rail line, conversations began about how do we get it to come back. In the late 1960s, passenger rail in America pretty much died a natural death. New interstate highways and big cars and cheap gas killed it.

>But over the last 20 years or so, there’s been an increasing push around how we take advantage of trains as a way to move people around in the way that is so common elsewhere.

>As a company, we came to the realization that the biggest population centers in Florida are Central Florida and Southeast Florida. People move about heavily in those in that corridor. We already had possession of a [rail] corridor and billions of dollars of infrastructure that had been put in place over about 120 years.

>That gave us a real head-start in developing a solution that could provide a newly considered passenger rail system that would move people back and forth between those important population centers.

>>1076973
>Q: What were the considerations that gave you the confidence to say now’s the right time to take advantage of that century-long investment?

>A: When we look around the world, we saw that where you have big population centers that are between 250 and 350 miles apart, you can offer train service as a way to move people that is faster than driving, much more convenient and comfortable than driving, and significantly cheaper than flying. When that happens, train travel quickly becomes the preferred mode of transportation for city pairs that fall into that zone, [which is] exactly what we have here in Florida.

>We also see that traffic is broken. No matter how much you love your car, you don’t love it when you’re stuck in traffic. And when you look at important demographics like millennials — to an ever-increasing degree, they’re looking for alternatives to private automobiles for the way they get about.

>So we had this convergence of things that that gave us confidence that the time was right and that we had a leg up on being able to deliver something.

>Q: What are you expecting in the first year or so of this southern leg, from West Palm Beach to Miami?

>A: First of all, we’re introducing a new product. It really is first of its kind in the United States in the format that is being presented. We expect that it will take us 24 to 30 months to get to its full potential.

>But in the first phase between Miami and West Palm Beach, we fully expect that 3 million-plus passengers will be taking our train service. Ultimately, with the addition of Orlando as the fourth stop in the system, we believe that we will exceed 5 million passengers annually.

>Tri-Rail already is carrying more passengers than we project between Miami and West Palm Beach. So in that regard, we actually think that our targets are somewhat conservative.

>>1076975

>Q: Who’s going to be riding Brightline?

>A: We have built the product specifically targeted for the needs of three different types of customers. First, there will be business travelers. That’s one important business segment for us.

>Secondly, leisure travelers. Millions of people come to visit Florida every year and many of them come here without cars or they come here from places that make driving an inhibition for them.

>And then lastly, residents who travel for all kinds of reasons associated with their daily lives [such as] visiting friends and family or going to an event in a nearby city or a doctor’s appointment. That is a different group of customers who are traveling for different reasons. We’ve tried to address their needs [like] everything from how much luggage they’re carrying to who they’re traveling with directly, with a product in the station and onboard the trains.

>Q: When you talk about introducing a new product, passenger train travel is not a new product. What gives you that confidence to describe Brightline as a new product?

>A: People have been traveling by train for hundreds of years, but broadly speaking, people’s first thought when they think about transportation in the United States is still the car and second, the airplane. So in that context, our mission is to change your behavior.

>>1076977
>Q: How confident are you that you’ve addressed or will have addressed all of the safety concerns when it comes to vehicular roadway crossings as well as marine industry concerns regarding the bridge over the New River in Fort Lauderdale?

>A: For sure, safety is the very top of our priority list. First, because it’s obviously the right thing to do. But, second, we’ve invested a lot in this new business and our new business depends on it. If we can’t reliably and safely move passengers back and forth, we won’t have any customers, and we won’t have a business, and this will all have been for naught.

I can say with confidence that we have covered all those bases because we have been deeply engaged with all of the regulatory authorities, principally the Federal Railway Administration, from the beginning on this. We have designed and are constructing what will be the only railroad in America that is fully compliant with all of the absolute latest and most strict safety requirements that exist in the rail industry today.

>>1076979
>Q: How about those marine industry concerns regarding that pinch point of that singular drawbridge over the New River?

>A: When we first announced our project, there was understandably some concern by the marine industry that we were somehow going to change the dynamic of the interface between the railroad and the marine industry that has been in place for a long time.

>But through a very productive dialogue, we’ve come to a terrific place where we’ve instituted new rules through the United States Coast Guard for when and how the bridge will be operated.

>We’ve installed new technologies for how the boaters can communicate with the bridge, including a tender at the New River Bridge in Fort Lauderdale. And we very recently completed a very large scale renovation and repair exercise on the New River Bridge to upgrade and modernize its operations so that we can with confidence say that it is in as new condition as it can possibly be.

>That’s important because that’s what underpins safe and reliable operation of the bridge and as long as the bridge is operating according to the rules safely and reliably then the coexistence between the marine industry and the rail industry will be as it always has been, a very productive relationship.

>Q: Is there room in the passenger rail market in South Florida for Brightline and for Tri-Rail?

>A: There’s absolutely room for both. Brightline and Tri-Rail provide two different services. Commuter [rail] is oriented toward an everyday use primarily for shorter distances. Brightline is targeted as an alternative to express and intercity services that connect from downtown to downtown. The longer the distance, the better the service offering for what we have.

>Q: So when you point out that Tri-Rail ridership already is larger than your expectations for Brightline, are those Brightline riders entirely new to rail transit?

>A: Most of our riders will be converting from car drivers to train riders.

>>1076980
>Q: Should we then look at traffic volumes on Interstate 95 to see how successful Brightline is?

>A: There’s no question that we would be alleviating traffic from I-95. The reality is traffic is not likely to stop growing. So what we’re doing is improving the traffic situation on I-95.

>Q: Everybody wants to ask you about fares.

>A: We have a philosophy and a strategy around fares that is driven by this behavior change, which is to get you out of your car. In order to do that, we believe that we have to have a fare structure that approximates what it cost you to drive your car today. What you’re going to see is the ability to take the train for what it costs you to drive your car those comparable distances.

>Q: The IRS mileage rate is 53.5 cents per mile. Between Miami and Fort Lauderdale, that would be $15 round-trip.

>A: And in that general neighborhood is an important clue as to where we’re going to be.

>Q: Will Brightline be profitable its first full year in operation?

>A: Our first full year won’t be until 2018 because we’re starting service here in 2017. We expect that we will be break-even or profitable in 2018.

>>1076982

>Q: And that is based upon the fare structure that you’re going to announce plus that ridership number of 3 million or so getting to 3 million... What does the operating cost to keep those trains running and maintaining the tracks and the safety features look like?

>A: For Brightline, it’s an important part of the profit and loss of the enterprise. We believe we have a very efficient operation here. No. 1, the nature of the corridor that we’re traveling on makes it a very efficient operation.

>No. 2, we’ve invested in facilities and technologies that are meant to mitigate operating costs. Whether it’s the diagnostic technology that we have on the trains or the quality of the trains, [is] an investment in capital upfront in order to mitigate the need for continual investment from an operating perspective. That’s the important thing to note about our business.

>When you look at publicly subsidized transportation services, those are businesses that are really built around the idea of maximizing ridership rate. Their objective is to get as many butts in seats as they possibly can at the lowest individual no cost per ride. The higher number of riders is central to that proposition.

>>1076983
>Q: And what’s central to that proposition is it’s a monopoly. There is no competition.

>A: But taxpayers subsidize it. Therefore, you want to get the costs as low as you can. The way to do that is to serve as many people as you possibly can.

>Our business is optimized around revenue and expenses as opposed to ridership. For every product, there are a [certain] number of people who are able and willing to pay for that particular service.

>For us, because we’re not subsidized, we don’t have the backstop of the taxpayer to cover our costs. We’re focused on finding the right number of the right riders who are willing to pay the fare for the service that we’re offering them that will make us profitable.

>Q: And for that first year, as you build up, it’s roughly about 3 million riders in those seats at the fare structure that you will announce in order to be profitable?

>A: If we get to 3 million riders with the fare structure that we expect, we are going to have a very robust business that will have ample opportunity to expand throughout the state. We think we’ll have a model that we will have learned from that will have applicability elsewhere outside of the state of Florida.

>Q: Does your profit forecast include the interest you’ll have to pay on the bonds?

>A: Absolutely. We’re a stand-alone company.

>Q: The first tranche of borrowing that All Aboard Florida did was $405 million.

>A: Those are those are just regular capital markets bonds.

>>1076984

>Q: With about a 12 percent interest rate. You have not issued any of the private activity bonds. As you look at your planning and the capital investments necessary to complete the rail to all the way to Orlando, do you anticipate issuing private activity bonds?

>A: We are considering a number of options for properly capitalizing the second phase of the project. One of the primary options that is available to us are these private activity bonds. We haven’t made the decision, but it is one of the leading options.

>Q: Some of the criticism about those private activity bonds has focused on the fact they are tax-exempt bonds, which are normally the types of bonds that are issued by government entities. Brightline is not a government entity, so it doesn’t have a taxpayer backstop. However, there is an implied public subsidy because they’re exempt from taxes.

>A: That, in my view, is patently wrong. The private activity bonds would not be available to us as a private company if the money weren’t being used for a public purpose. In this case, we’re making private investment into public transportation infrastructure.

>If we weren’t using private dollars to do it, the need would exist for public dollars to do this very same thing. If this were built as a public-sector entity, it would generate exactly $0 of taxes as a result of its operation.

>Because we are investing private dollars, we are a taxable entity. The economic output from our project generates almost a billion dollars a year in total tax revenue as a result of the investment that we’re making. No taxpayer is on the hook for a dollar as a consequence of private activity bonds.

>The resulting economic output, including tax revenue, which gets generated by the investment far exceeds the amount of taxable income that would come from the debt. So if we don’t make the investment on a private sector basis, how much tax income has been generated? $0.

>>1076985
>Q: The Brightline project has been split into two phases. Phase one being the southern leg — Miami up to West Palm Beach. Phase two is from West Palm Beach up to Orlando International Airport. The three counties that the second leg will first go to on its way to Orlando have been vocal in opposing that expansion. Does this pit transportation interests from Central Florida against transportation interests in South Florida?

>A: Between the four cities that our service will connect, something like 95 percent trips are taken on the roads. There’s no lack of agreement between Central Florida and South Florida as to the importance of what we’re doing.

>Q: The lack of agreement is concentrated along the Treasure Coast.

>A: There are a few people that don’t see the world the same way that we do and who have taken much more of a ‘not in my backyard’ kind of attitude toward this. It’s a bit ironic because we’ve got a railroad that’s built on private property and that has been in continuous operation on that private property as a railroad for 120 years. It predates the existence of the places that some of the opponents of the project are from. And if it wasn’t for the railroad, those places may never have come to exist. It’s not unexpected.

>Q: As you split this into two phases of the project, have you had second thoughts about that second phase to Orlando?

>A: No, not at all. We absolutely believe in the importance of the project and the business opportunity that the project represents.

>Q: No chance that the train doesn’t eventually go to Orlando?

>A: We are fully committed to this.

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All we need now is a line going into Tampa and Jacksonville and Florida will be GOAT.

>>1077136
JAX>SAV>ATL by 2050 pls

>i can dream, can't i?

>>1077821
Who owns some of the track in Georgia because depending on the success of Brightline (and if we do get a Jacksonville connection) that might be possible.

>>1077847
Probably CSX.

>>1078259
Yes, CSX.

https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/files/customers/maps/printable-system-map/

>>1078259

And Norfolk Southern

>>1066007
Those look awesome

>>1063087
Fucking cyclefag

>>1079223
>>1078260
So witch one would probably jump first at the opportunity to get a new passenger rail running along side brightline.

>>1080049

Neither.

>>1080049
>Class I's
>Wanting passenger rail on their shit.
Not even a little bit.

>>1080219
>>1080204
Didn't Norfolk have a steam program for a while where the would have excursion where people could get a ride on some of there old locomotives

>>1080224
Those are one off specials though, not regular service.

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This is not the BOS-NYC-DC corridor-- Who actually commutes from MIA-MCO, TPA-MIA or TPA-MCO?

Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Palm Beach is a 2 to 3 hr drive. Tampa-Orlando is a 2 hr drive. Tamp-Miami is a 5 hr drive.

FEC tracks are designed for 30mph freight.

Waste of money.

>>1080663
You really don't know shit, do you. FEC has the fastest average freight speed in the country, its all 80MPH operation of fast fruit and fast cargo from the ports to interchange with CSX. Please stop shitposting.

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>>1080665

He he. I know plenty of shit.

TriRail is a money loser. It takes as much time to park and ride from Broward or Palm Beaches western suburbs as it does to just plain old drive. No one does it. Especially when a perfectly serviceable car can be had for $3000. Good luck getting anyone with any type of income to spend the same amount of time or more travelling on a train when they can take their Audi/Benz/BMW/Caddy/Jag and not have to deal with the unwashed masses-- or park and ride.

The key to passenger rail success is steady regular traffic-- or gov't subsidies. Commuter rail between Florida cities is a money loser because no one regularly commutes between those cities. These cities are just not linked economically or politically. Grandma going between MCO and MIA twice a year is not going to make an economically viable rail system. And don't tell me the trip will be faster on intercity rail. As soon as local stops are introduced, you are looking at extending the trip by 50-100% or more.

Waste of money.

>>1080669
How did you go from lying to the speed of the FEC tracks to shit talking tri rail

Factor in the cost of gas and insurgence and rail is still cheaper (and that's not even counting the fact the roads are more heavily subsidized than transit)

Tri Rail loses money cause just like most type public mass transit, its not designed to make enough to cover its operating cost but to maximize ridership numbers (2016 ridership was around 4,240,000), which is a massive flaw in every public transport

if there's no "regular traffic" between Miami and WPB, why does the morning commute take over 2 hours when the distance between the two cities (71 miles ) means it should only take a little over 1 hour

If the cities are "not linked economically or politically" why are all three cities part of the Miami metropolitan area

What evidence do you have local stops will be introduced, if they where going to build more stops then we would have seen them being built already

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>>1080669
>shit traffic with shitty tourist and snow bird drivers
>long commute where you need to pay tolls
>parking is impossible to find and expensive

>>1081858
>What evidence do you have local stops will be introduced, if they where going to build more stops then we would have seen them being built already

It's a fairly common thought I've seen in Brightline discussions elsewhere that they will have to add intermediate stations in the second phase to Orlando between WPB and Cocoa as compensation for increasing the number of trains running through those towns. Nevermind that that's not how things work, that's how some people are trying to make it work.

>>1058863

Floridafag and foamfag reporting.

The real reason why Brightline is being built is simple. It's a front to double-track their system with a gubmint loan

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>>1083342
the closest I've seen is Tri-rails Coastal link they have running on the FEC track up to Jupiter but I doubt it happens because 1) tri-rail will probably never get any more money any time soon after the absolute failure with the miami station being to short fore amtrak (the whole reason why they build it) and 2) if the addition of slower commuter train disrupts the speed and on time performance, Brightline has every reason to block it from ever happening (unless per say tri-rail promises to help fund small sections of a possible third rail for passing assuming there's enough space)

But that's mainly talking about the Miami to WPB sections, if there is any fifth station from WBP to Orlando, it probably depends on if there's any major tourist attractions in route and whether or not it will generate enough passenger fares and mainly revenue from property values (which I'll bet any anon here FECI will eventually buy the land around the unplanned station) to cover the cost to build the facility and possible track improvements to make up lost time.

>>1083349
source

>>1075299
>>1075567
Not digging the style, but I do prefer consistency than trying random shit at every station. Unique styles are for public train stations

>>1083441
kinda disappointed they didn't try and pay more tribute to the old stations Flagler built on the old line

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More to do with the Miami Central Station than the Brightline service, but here's the new TriRail connection being built.

>>1059776

What a delusional thought. Florida is railway heaven because it's long thin and east biased. Other than the la-san Fran area, the NEC is the only rail friendly region - both suffer from giant problems in pre existing (shit) networks and high real estate costs blocking new ones.

Fla has the Miami portion open to business to Disney but past that where will you go? Atlanta is north and west, the Atlantic seabord is empty. Hitting DC is nice but then it's empty again till Baltimore, and once again pre existing NEC rails ain't moving for you.

Rollers btfo.

>>1063553

Non car cucks whining at each other makes me hard

>>1076973

Well there's your mental gymnastics

> RRs die a natural death, big cars cheap gas and good highways kill them
> But in the last 20 years people are thinking about trying it again

"People" means RR companies and hipsters who think Europe is cooler than America for contrarian hipster reasons. It reeks of self shillery and false consensus. I smell a Jew trying to scam us off of bonds and cut and run when it turns out to be unprofitable. Then enter second line Jew who buys company and lobbies for subsidies. Also,

> Wealthy people will want it

Wealthy people want planes first, luxury cars second. And also don't think that all of them are delighted to spend more than they have to. Even the most gas hogging Mercedes beats the train in costs, and when you factor in split costs (because who the hell goes to Disney alone) it's not even close. Trains are for europe, which has shitty legacy roads but passable legacy train tunnels, and big legacy cities, which are limited by parking availability and also draw lots of shitskin labor and pavent ape traffic that can't afford cars anyways.

>>1088546
>"People" means RR companies
Most RR companies hate Amtrak and so much so that there have been instances where legal action was required to make them stop forcing Amtrak to wait while fright passes even though federal law gives Amtak priority.

> and hipsters who think Europe is cooler
But mostly Baby Boomers

>Trains are for europe, which has shitty legacy roads
What is the Autobahn, plus the american highway system is complete and utter shit, full of pot holes, overcrowded, and at least one major bridge collapse a year. Also bonds =/= loans, I know there's no difference to a stupid Antifa commie like (you) but bonds HAVE to be paid back or else the guys is going to jail or gets everything he owns sold off as compensation

>Wealthy people want planes first, luxury cars second.
False, wealthy wan't luxury first regardless of transport and you can't name a single luxury train in america that operates today

>>1059351
Can confirm. Hong Kong Disney and Tokyo Disney are kinda like this. They are connected to the city by subways but in order to get there you have to transfer at a stop that pretty much exists only as an interchange to transfer to a special line only servicing the park and hotels.

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Zero regular traffic between major cities (Tallahassee, Jax, Orlando, Tampa and Miami/Fort Lauderdale/Palm Beach) = no economic basis for rail. Govt gimmes are the only thing that will make it work. Will never be economically self sufficient.

>>1088664

>>Wealthy people want planes first, luxury cars second.

>False, wealthy wan't luxury first regardless of transport and you can't name a single luxury train in america that operates today

Er, no.

Middle class people do not ride buses.

Rich people do not ride trains or coach-class in airplanes.

Just the way it is...


> bonds =/= loans

This is just plain wrong-- economics 101. Get some. ("I'll take what is principle, interest, term and payment for $100, Alex").

>>1089257
>Middle class people do not ride buses.

>Rich people do not ride trains or coach-class in airplanes.

>Just the way it is...

buses are far from luxury, hard to find one that doesn't smell like piss.

Also what exactly is your argument against my statement saying wealthy people wan't luxury regardless of transport they take again cause you didn't really present anything aside from rewording your first statement

>>1088664
different anon but your kinda full of shit with the bonds =/= loans

They effectively operator the same, both borrow money from a source and have to pay it beck with a set intrest rate, with legal ramifications if you don't pay with of them back (think you where confusing loans with grants which don't have to be paid back) the only difference is where the money comes from as is paid back as
>Loan are typically borrowing money from a bank.
>Bonds borrows money from the public.
The only other major difference with bonds, the issuing company makes periodic interest payments to its bondholders, usually twice a year, and repays the principal amount at the end of the bond's term.

Allthough iirc Brightline/AAF did go for some tax free bonds/municipal bonds which I'm not to familiar with (maybe someone else who knows more about economics can chime in) but from what I can gather, all that's different is that your intrest paid to the bond does not affect your taxe for that year.

>>1089253
How is the government involved when its a private company

>>1089253
The only group pushing that lie are the TC nimbys. It connects to Orlando Airport directly in Phase II; and everyone hates parking at/picking up from the airport.

>>1062750
Uber to the beach, dumbass.

>>1062750
>>1076654
Same.

I love trains and HSR but I wouldn't use it here in Florida because I'll need a car wherever I'm going in this state. 99% of anywhere I'll go isn't near non-bus mass transit. Plus if you're going to the beach or doing outdoor shit you're probably gonna have a bunch of stuff to lug around. I'd take a train and love in in the Northeast or Yurop, but it's simply a waste of time here due to how cities are built down here.

>>1076968
Both those cities have great mass transit though. You need a car in Miami and Orlando.

And now there's this, some planners are trying to get FEC to build and operate a new line along with an expansion of highway 27.

http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2017/07/21/brian-mast-encourages-efforts-move-rail-freight-traffic-west/484476001/

Fort Pierce pursuing a potential Brightline stop.

>>1094716
derp
http://www.tcpalm.com/story/opinion/columnists/rich-campbell/2017/07/27/yay-fort-pierce-pursuing-brightline-train-stop-rich-campbell/509444001/

>>1058831
>starta in July
Is it currently up and running?

>>1088735
In both cases there're no place worth stopping in between

>>1059155
Lmao why not just take the fucking tri-rail for $5

>>1096165
unfortunately not, it was delayed a while back (surprised no one brought it up back at the beginning of July)
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transportation/fl-reg-brightline-fuel-update-20170627-story.html

Most speculate its because the final train set still hasn't left the Siemens workshop in Sacramento or its because the whole project is a sham and proof of it (mainly coming from the treasure cost that is)
The current status at the best is limited serves (4-6 trains a day) FL to WPB in August with full service (16 trains a day) to Miami in September, at worst limited serves is scrapped all together to catch up for in time for full service

>>1096246
>Each train will have at least three coaches with nearly 50 seats and one coach with between 58 and 66 seats in different configurations.
How long will each train be and what's the max length supported by platforms?

>>1096284
Max length of a car in the US is typically 89 ft. and those are loooong cars. 6 axle engines are usually 75 ft. and geeps are like 60-65.

So your train length is probably 350 ft. I'd guess stations will be 500-600 ft. long.

>>1096284
>>1096288
Found a document with exact details of the cars
http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/brightline-Coach-Siemens-2.pdf
but to make it simple each coach is 85 feet long and since there planning to run a 3-4 car set up initially that means that not counting the two engines its gonna come up to about 255-340 ft, and I think they said something about increasing it to a maximum of 6-7 cars plus an additional dinner car.

>>1096315
Damn I was right on it.