Trackless Trolleys/Trolleybus General

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A coach heads round the loop to turn back inbound. Note the left hand doors for subway loading at Harvard.

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There is also a commuter rail station at the terminal in Waverly Sq, making this route very /n/ friendly.

>>1047660
Is this Somerville or Cambridge?

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The reconstruction of this route was likely the first new installation of traditional trackless trolley line in Boston since the 1950s when the lines were originally converted from streetcars. The Silver Line which opened in 2004 uses trackless buses but the overhead was constructed with modern European materials and techniques.

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>>1047664
It begins in Cambridge and runs into Waverly.

Hope you find this thread cozy on such a cold Winters day.

Also: post TT's

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Last pic

>>1047665
>but the overhead was constructed with modern European materials and techniques.
What are the differences there?

Also comfy photos, thank you.

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>>1047669
All the overhead components were from a Swiss company I think, and resemble the catenary of a modern tram or electric train. This line was done the old fashioned way with Ohio Brass hangers/frogs/etc and looks the same as an old trolley line, with span wires going across the road and little mushroom cap shaped things to hang the wires. I believe the newer system is also higher tension, whereas these wires sag a bit between hangers. Here's a pic I took of the new-old hardware.

>>1047660
Good thing this is basically obsolete with the rapid growth in battery electric buses. Can't wait for all this dog shit catenary wire to get off streets all over the country.

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>>1047711
To me a combination of battery and overhead line seems most practical.
Put an overhead line on the big roads that multiple bus routes use and rely on battery for the rest.

Currently there's a trial battery powered bus running here that charges at the terminal stations.

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Greetings from Budapest.

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>>1047671
This is probably the most modern way of hanging overhead wires for trolleybuses

Also this channel might be interesting for trolleybus fans

https://youtu.be/J9ndhMUg53A

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>>1047861
I think trolleys are the best for long, busy bus lines while right now battery buses are fine for basic lines.

Helsinki, Tampere and Turku here in Finland right now have a battery bus trials that has been proven succesful. Helsinki and Turku are using the Finnish made Linkker bus while Tampere is relying in Solaris buses.

>>1047662
oh fuck thats a sexy urban rail station

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>>1047660
Didn't know it still exists in Western countries. Glad to hear it.

Take a trolley pic from my former city in exchange.

>>1048087
The bestest trolleybus systems are literally in Switzerland which is IMHO 100% western country.

>>1047861
Münster is in desperate need of a metro or at least a tramway. Public transit sucks in that city.

>>1048098
The cyclists would never allow new rails.

>>1048094
Yeah. But all I heard was system closures, ie. Innsbruck.

>>1048101
It would work underground. Currently the buses are taking up so much surface space, you can't make it any worse by building rail.

>>1048141
Bicycles would occupy tunnels as well.
The space isn't as much an issue as the added danger for bikes from rails.

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Hey we get to play too!

We still have 13 routes that run as primarily as trolleys. These include:

3 Main/Downtown
4 Powell/UBC
5 Robson/Downtown
6 Davie/Downtown
7 Nanaimo Stn/Dunbar
8 Fraser/Downtown
9 Alma/Boundary
10 Granville/Downtown
14 Hastings/UBC
16 Arbutus/29th Avenue Stn
17 Oak/Downtown
19 Stanley Park/Metrotown Stn
20 Victoria/Downtown

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>>1048200
Most of the fleet is 40-foot New Flyers.

But we also have some 60-foot New Flyers that mostly run on the 3, 8, 10, and 20.

>>1047861
I have to say I disagree. The good thing about trolleybuses is that they don't need large batteries, just enough for detours and whatnot. What you suggest, which is hybrid trolleybuses (these exist in some places) is the worst of both worlds: need to carry the weight and the cost of batteries, while also carrying weight and cost of trolley equipment, plus you need the high fixed costs of trolley wires (the most expensive part isn't a few km give or take, but the equipment to maintain it in the first place).

Trolleybuses are soon going to be obsolete because battery buses have become more affordable and their batteries last longer. By now, systems like the one you show in your pic will soon be commonplace, they're in the last experimental phase as of now, and their initial cost is lower, while running cost is about the same, and likely less especially for smaller systems.
Yes, yes, very well, HOWEVER trolleybuses consume less energy and are more eco-friendly: They carry less weight and don't need to ever move to recharge, and they don't have large batteries that need to be changed regularily.

I guess the end is nigh for trolleybuses. The only hope for this transport is that cities which already have a significant system in place, which will likely never be economical to abandon in favor of battery buses, will maintain a certain demand for new trolleybus units. Also since a trolleybus is for the most part the same as any electric bus it's not like it's much work to produce trolleybuses as well as battery electrics.

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>>1048110
Innsbruck is in Austria. Switzerland is unlikely to close down trolleybuses, unlike most places they don't throw a tantrum over some dumb wires because MUH CITYSCAPE, and they're actually smart enough to understand that those wires are better than diesel fumes. Around 2010 I think it was the smallest system in Switzerland which is Schaffhausen with one line running 6 units held a referendum over wether to replace the aging fleet or switch over to combustion units. The latter would have been about 10% cheaper, but citizens voted to keep the trolleys and study the conversion of the second most used line to trolleys as well in the near future.

But you're right, there's few cities in the west that still keep trolleybuses. A few have them as a core transport though, such cities are Vancouver, Canada and Salzburg in Austria. It's extremely unlikely that Salzburg will ever abandon theirs, since they now treat it as part of their city's heritage.
Mexico City has the largest system in the americas, but it has shrunk continually since it peaked in the 1980's, partly due to new metro lines. Recently they discarded getting new battery buses because they'd be too expensive, it remains to see if they start betting on trolleys again or if that system will eventually go the way of the dodo when the units (many 30 or 40 years old, the newest are a batch from '97) finally give out.

>>1048234
The worst are trolleybuses with combustion engine.
Batteries and overhead wire supplement each other. You can charge the batteries while wired and reach areas that can't be wired such as old towns.

>>1048326
>Old town can't be wired

Pfff, neurotypicals and their rules.

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greetings from Lituania

>>1048157
Not if you don't let them go down there and/or don't pave it.

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Another Ikarus with GVM electronics.

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>>1047660
Back when I was still in Boston they were still running the old Flyer electrics alongside the newer Neoplan buses. didn't know they closed the Waverly route.

also, fun fact; the MBTA was a good part of the reason Neoplan USA went under due to the costs of engineering the dual mode buses (silver line) as well as having to redesign the Harvard Buses to have a left hand door.

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SEPTA AM General trolleybus passing a PCC in South Philadelphia. Philly was the second city in the world to run trolleybuses (1923) after Shanghai (1914).

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>>1048927
Modern New Flyer on the Route 59 in Northeast Philadelphia

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>>1048928
Current and former routes

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>>1048927
You sure about those positions? I mean, I believe philly was second, but 1914 is just toi early for modern trolleybuses.
I mean modern ones, there were old cable powered omnibuses years before that. Pic is a small Austrian town Gmünd in 1907

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>>1048936
I believe it. The dual-wire trolleypole system was apparently developed by Max Schiemann and a pilot service ran as early as 1901.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleislose_Bielathal-Motorbahn_mit_elektrischer_Oberleitung

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>>1048236
Basel is swiss and closed theirs pretty recently.

>>1047915
Solingen-Burg, i actually remember watching the turntable in action as a child. iirc it isn't in operation anymore since the new bus generation has an aux diesel engine.

>>1048936
Staten Island had trolleybuses on some lines in the 1900s. There was a developer who had trolleybuses built so people could ride up and down the steep hill to get to the trolley.in Los Angeles.

>>1048236
I think the wires add to the "cityscape".
Then again I thought the elevated lines did too and they tore those down long ago..

>>1048875
I've heard about that left hand door fiasco. I've seen a pic of one without it, before they sent it back and retrofitted it.

>>1049015
Huh, wasn't aware of that. Well I guess there's gotta be an exception to any rule...

>>1049665
>I think the wires add to the "cityscape".
I thought I was the only one who thought like that.

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This is the largest of three remaining trolleybus networks in Germany. It situated in Solingen, a city of 160 000 pretty much dead center in the Rhine-Ruhr metropolitan area and part of the Bergisches Land. The network consists of six lines and is 56,6km long.

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>>1049724
Line 683 connects to the terminus of the famous Wuppertal Suspension Railway in Vohwinkel, giving you really intensely /n/ pictures such as this.

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>>1049725
or this

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>>1049726
Or this one with vintage rolling stock.

>>1049726
Wonder if a train has ever taken out a dewired pole.

>>1049727
Could this photo be recreated today or was the wire-loop really removed with the diesel-extension to the train station (as in electric-only buses can no longer turn)?
I remember reading some forum post about this

>>1050136
A dewired pole will only spring up very little above the wire. Way less than would be necessary to be hit by the train, judging from the pic.

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something I've always wondered is what kind of black magic is employed for wire switches? how the hell do they work? how does the trolley pole just "know" which route to take? how is the switch operated?

I mean look at this clusterfuck. how does shit not get all turned around? at least with the pantograph it doesn't really matter as long as its making contact.

>>1050171
I don't know. Wikipedia only says that there was a diesel-only extension to the next train station, but nothing about a loop being removed. I'm not from the area myself, so I'm not an expert on the subject. Just thought the combined suspension railway and trolleybus station was a neat and very /n/ thing.

>>1050274
well at the guided rail form of transportation such as trams with trolleypoles it's fairly easy. Tram takes first the rail switch and the pole goes after it so the wire switch is rather primitive.
Trolleybus switches however are little bit more complicated but not that much. Imagine it as a little box with rails, the pole goes into the rails and then there is a switch.

Here a video of an old one from Slovakia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ILHFjvEMpI

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>>1047662
>>1048031

They want to replace it with this.

>>1047660
God I fucking hated riding these things

every fucking day the poles that got the power would unhook themselves and the bus driver would have to stop the bus, go out back and fuck around reattaching the probe thingies

always late

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>>1050424
Overkill. An easier solution is to repurpose the current platforms for ramps and move the platforms east where there's plenty of room..

>>1050274
The switches work by detecting whether or not the trolley is taking power. You power through the switch to go one way, coast to go the other. Some streetcar switches (the tracks not overhead) worked/work the same way. At least they did here in Boston.

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No Chisinau yet?

>>1047671

>Swiss

Lol before this post I was ready to talk about seeing these in Switzerland and how it amazed me.

>>1048875
>>1049667
They run normal buses sometimes (probably just when one is broken, when it's planned they use the upper busway) and you can get in the normal right door, and they usually open both, but I mostly take it on nights and weekends when it's a lot less busy, and you probably wouldn't be able to get a wheelchair on.

The 71 and 73 (I assume, I only take the 71) are also the only routes in the system where you don't always pay when you get on, when you're going outbound you pay when you get off so people can use the left door at Harvard. It doesn't tell you that anywhere, even after I knew I couldn't find any mention of it online or at the station - I found out about it from someone else, but there are always new people who don't know and pay when they get on, especially if they get on somewhere other than the busway.

>>1050274
I know the drivers have to take their foot off the pedal and coast for a second while they go through it, my understanding was that they just line everything up right so they sort of skip over it, but I only heard what the driver has to do and it was years ago so that might not be right.

>>1047660

weird, i was on the 73 the other day and the bus did not use the overhead wires. as much as i prefer electric over diesel, id rather the mbta unify their fleet and stop wasting money procuring esoteric hardware for single lines

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1931 Diddler No 1

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Ekaterinburg.

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Ryazan.

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Sunbeam MS2 1935

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Moscow.

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London Q1 1948

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Debrecen.

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Budapest.

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>>1051939
the reason they stick with electric at Harvard is the same reason the Silver Line switches to electric when it goes underground. nobody wants to die from inhaling diesel fumes. all the trackless trolley lines in Boston (save the Waterfront line) USED to be streetcar lines, and (at the time) it was cheaper to just convert them to electric trolleybuses rather than redesign the entire station to accommodate diesel buses.

>>1052076
And yet they still send regular buses through the Harvard Bus Tunnel.

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>>1052079
Yes, in limited numbers. and with newer, cleaner burning diesel engines, they might get rid of trolleys entirely, but probably not anytime soon. IIRC the Harvard trolleybuses act as sort of a tourist attraction as well as a source of revenue, similar to the Mattapan-Ashmont high speed line, which exclusively runs old post-war PCCs.

>>1050447
that's because you live in a 3rd world country, it's not a problem of trolleybus but your shit maintanance

>>1052076
They tested out the (new at the time) silver line buses in Watertown using the 71's wires, that's why they continue across the river into Watertown Yard even though the 71 stops before that. There are still a few feet of rail there from the green line too, but they start and stop with solid pavement so you wouldn't be able to use them.

>>1052079
They can't use the cng ones because of the wires (the gas is in the part that sticks out on the top, so it's a fire hazard), and all the regular ones use the upper busway because of the left side door thing in the lower one, so there isn't enough space to cram 2 more key bus routes into the top and having the bottom unused.

>>1052135
I live at one of the stops on this trolley line, they're talking about tearing out the tracks and replacing it with trackless trolley buses. It makes sense, but i just wish they'd strip one of the trolleys down and make new molds so new parts could be made for it. (I have no idea how parts fabrication works but it seems like it could work)
I do love those trolleys.
And they're expanding the bike path that runs along it part of it, cant wait for that to be done.

>>1048087
I live in the Boston area and I didn't even know we still had them.

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>ctrl+f Valparaíso
>no results
Let's fix this.
The only bad thing is that they got really old units that were modified, so they have more of a 80's Norinco style...
Good thing that a European asked to keep the oldest trolley without changes.

>>1047660
How does this work?

>>1056010
What is your question

>>1056013
How does this work? What if they steer too far left or right? How does it power it?

i come here for bicycles

>>1056014
Okay I'll just spoonfeed you now. The trolleypoles attach to the overhead wires in a manner that does not allow the wires to escape, but still maintain contact (and thus, a power connection) at all times. The electric current comes through one wire, goes down the trolleypole, poweres the electric engine in the bus and goes back up the other pole and the other wire.
Imagine you're carrying a fan around. Instead of turning it off and going to the next wall socket, the fan can run at all times because it is connected to the power supply at all times. And instead of spinning the fan, the motor spins the wheels of this bus.
There overhead wires and poles are flexible or mobile enough for all necessary steering maneuvers. The drivers are trained, of course, to avoid getting to far off the path. I guess in case of an accident the wire might tear or the poles may break off and the bus will lose power.
Most trolleybuses are equipped with an auxiliary diesel engine or a battery to go off the rails for a little while. Some have both the electrical and the full diesel engine, but those are less efficient because of the extra weight and space needed.

>>1056026
That is exactly the type of information i wanted to know. Thank you very much!

Fellow Bostonians! On a T related note, what is up with the Copley green line stop? I've found myself wanting to go east from there very often but I cannot...

>>1056038
Yer welcom

>>1056042
Because the street runs south-east?

>>1056014
black magic, geez

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Some pictures of the 71

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San Francisco, vintage equipment day last year

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Same bus model, long ago

>>1058554
Revenue service or just a joy ride?

One day a year, and on its own non-standard route.

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Moscow

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>>1050939
>Chisinau

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>>1048341
I heard some rumours about plans to close the Vilnius system. How true is that?

Our network hasn't changed much since soviet times and there are no plans to neither massively extend nor to shrink it, however the city council likes to throw money around and now the entire fleet is new and shiny low floor vehicles. Pic related, most of these have diesel generators, which makes sense to an extent, three lines got a little extended by running these.
All 14Tr including the newest ones from '98 and all 15Tr were retired a few years ago. Probably scrapped, unlike some Tatra T3 trams that were sold to some Ukrainian cities.

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>>1059478

The other type in the current fleet is these. Newest batch of them have generators, but there are no lines where the bendies would be running wireless. They said they bought dual-power ones to make the system more flexible to traffic restrictions in case of major public event (which happens like once a year) or a force majeure (say, a storm where a tree could fall on a wires - which also happens roughly once a year).

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>>1058527

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>>1060574