/upg/ - Urban Planning General

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The Selby Avenue Streetcar Tunnel was built in Saint Paul, Minnesota to allow streetcars to climb a steep hill. It replaced an earlier cable car. It was closed and sealed when the streetcar system was abandoned and replaced with buses.

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The Cincinnati Subway tunnel was built through downtown but was abandoned due to rising costs and the Great Depression. It was never built and still sits unused.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Subway

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I walked over an abandoned branch of the LIRR last weekend

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>>1027324

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>>1027325

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>>1027326

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>>1027327

>>1027249
It's crazy how tunneling is the most expensive part and they still haven't found a cost effective way to use it since then...

>>1027331
A transit plan was voted down 68.4% to 31.6% in 2002 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroMoves) and it's taken years and massive political fights to get even the vanity streetcar we have now. There was a ballot initiative that would have banned light rail funding for like a decade at one point, thankfully voted down.

>>1027491
Why did you guys get a streetcar? Why not finish the subway instead?

>>1027517
John Kasich

>>1027542
Thanks Donald.

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>>1027324
This weekend I walked out to an abandoned pier in Philly

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>>1027936

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>>1027937

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>>1027939

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Streetcar ties that had been covered for ~50 years being torn out of the ground during construction of the Green Line in Minnesota.

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>>1027995
Fuck you 4chan for rotating the picture. It looks correct on my desktop.

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How do you feel about this /upg/?

>>1027997
Your camera has inserted an orientation tag in the image EXIF which causes most web services to align it like that. Windows image viewer ignores it.

>>1028199
mostly disagree with the second point (although i see the merit in simplifying such prescriptions, abolishing them completely would make for messy construction)

The fifth and seventh point are appropriate, concil housing and rent control have been very strong propellents of the housing crisis. I must say that, especially for london, rent control is a necessary measure while property there is being used as an investment bay for foreign millionaires. Russians out!

Point 8 is bollocks, what could be the reasoning for it?

>>1028248
by the way millionaires ruining london is such an old thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iriNIKeBLY

However now the enemy is different, and we're deep in shit with the fucking house prices

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>>1028199
How do you feel? Do you have an opinion at all or do you just like throwing around libertarian ramblings for a hobby? Lead by example and demonstrate that your mental capacity is worth the time it takes others to write their thought down if you want an actual debate, dick-wad.

>here is random pic
>discuss

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Can you people recommend any urban design related books?

any one is fine, so long as its related. whether its perspective from old or new planners and architects, or simple street building guides.

I'd even love to see any paint images with other anons' ideas!

>pic related, only book I'm currently reading

>>1028199
>You've spent 3 hours at Evergreen Memorial Park
>At $2 per hour for Basic Visitation Rights your total will be $6 plus a $1 surcharge for occupying a park bench
>Thank you and have a good day sir!

>>1028311
"Retrofitting Suburbia" was a fun read. My family lives in the suburbs, and it's great to see shopping mall parking lots being redeveloped into apartments. Roundabout access to the parking lots also slowed down cars and made the area much more pedestrian-friendly.

>>1028334
It's about time fringe users pay their own way. As a motorist I'm tired of my tax dollars going to special interests like that. I pay for the roads - why should bicyclists get their own special lanes if they don't pay taxes? Don't get my started on deplorables who don't have a car and walk.

>>1028199
How would squares and parks exist in a free market?

If NYC sold of Central Park to developers they'd make a bunch of 432 Parks in it.

>>1028199
>No social/affordable housing
So just like Hong Kong? Hong Kong have social/affordable housing but the supply is lacking, and thus you can see people paying US$400 a month for a caged bed in industrial building or US$200 for a roadside cargo container

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>>1028335
damn I watched her ted talk on the subject and it was pretty interesting
will check out

>>1028311
I just finished pic related
definitely worth the read especially if you are interested in North American urban planning

I am reading "The City Assembled" by Spiro Kostof. Would recommend for a fun read, its a general overview of the development of cities over the whole of their existence and all aspects involved at various stages of development

>>1028199
>Privatize everything
So that Arab rich people can create more regions like they did a while ago in Bosnia where non-Arab people like lical residents can only enter the zone if they become slave(housekeeper) of those Arab?
Or so that those private property owner can rightfully deny anyone from stepping onto the street after 00:00am?

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>>1028311
Not everything is applicable in the 21st century, but it was this book that launched contemporary urban planning and broke away from Modernist dogma.

>>1028199
Libertarian/anarchist fantasies like this are just as impractical as their opposite, pure Communism. Market forces have to be balanced by a social contract, and public spending for the good of the commonwealth, otherwise commerce and global economy would return to the way it was in the 19th century, with most people living as smallholding or tenant farmers, and most commerce would be strictly local.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this crap was written by somebody in the US, and when they say "social engineering" they think that means giving money to niggers - but don't realize that the Interstate Highway System, the Federally-backed mortgage that allows them to own a suburban home, and the pipes that bring water to their taps would all have to go too in a world without public spending and regulation for the common good.

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AHHHH WHY THE FUCK DOES THIS SHIT GIVE ME SUCH A NATURE BONER

>>1028426
Although there isn't always a perfectly clear line between the two, I think there's a difference between setting up infrastructure like roads and pipes that are able to be used (and are used) by everyone and are pretty much the basic necessary requirements for modern society, and flat out giving certain people money based off of who you think needs it and having everyone else pay for it. Since essentially everyone uses pipes and roads it makes sense for the cost to be split between them, and the few people living in the middle of the woods away from civilization probably aren't paying very many taxes and are a negligible outlier.

The gray areas are things like public parks where everyone is able to use them, but most people don't, and if they stopped existing people might be unhappy but it wouldn't really affect their lives that much, or homeless shelter type things that only help a very specific demographic but depending on the climate people could die without them and it's the absolute minimum to keep them alive.

With housing subsidies there's also the idea that things would still end up balancing out without them, because you still have the same number of people and same amount of housing, so landlords / sellers are saving money and able to lower the price somewhat, and renters / buyers are also saving money that makes the loss of the subsidy have less of an impact, which combines with the lower cost so the dollar values might be lower on both sides, but people would still be able to afford (or get an income from) the same things they can now.

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>>1027328
Same anon. Last weekend I walked the Reading Viaduct in Philly.

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>>1028523

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>>1028524
Spring Garden Station

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>>1028525

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>>1028526

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>>1028528

>>1028434
Most people don't use park regularly but can you imagine a children never been to park before.
Park in some city might be so dirty/dangerous/broken that no one would eant to go but privatization would only worsen these things.
Homeless shelter is not setup for homeless people, it is setup so that homeless people can be collected into it without spilling all around the city
Not sure how housing subsidies in rest of the world work, but here those housing are constructed by government which those houses would otherwise not being constructed, and as housing demand is rather rigid, if government does not setup regulations, then real estate developers would be more than willing to lower their supply like what OPEC did to oil price. This way the supply would always fall short of demand and property price as well as their profit would skyrocket.

>>1028534
Not that guy, I'm pretty illiterate on these subjects, but why would competitive real estate developers uniformly lower their supply to increase profit? Couldn't one greedy real estate developer simply up their production to satisfy demand, lower their prices, and corner the market forcing everyone to fail or fall back in line?

>>1028399
"Privatizing" a public good like that usually ends up being a half-assed disaster where the asset (parks and squares in this case) is sold off to a private interest, then the government leases the space back and pays the owner a contracted amount for maintenance and management.

I'm generally libertarian, especially at the local level, but something like that with no clear independent revenue stream just looks like a forced public-to-private transfer of wealth, which is the sort of thing libertarianism is supposed to avoid. I guess the upshot is that you wouldn't have to worry about homeless people and protesters in the parks, because they'd be private property and could kick out whoever they please.

>>1028548
Yes, this is generally how a market works.
Somehow people think the housing market isn't a market, maybe because of the emotional attachment.

https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2015/01/affordable-housing-and-subsidized.html

>>1028412
Reading this one right now.

>>1028529
cool pics, thanks

>>1028640
It is skewed somewhat by (the cities) artificially limiting supply with density zoning. Developers see that the total amount they can build is limited, so they focus more on luxury housing, which has a higher profit per unit, potentially leaving the need for affordable housing unmet. In a freer market, developers don't have to allot finite building rights between luxury and affordable housing-both markets could be met.

>>1028548
The greedy developer know that if the market is 3000 short in demand and he's building 10000 a year, the increase in profit margin due to lack of demand in future would be greater than 30%. Of course the greedy developer can be a new or underrepresented participants like Iran in the oil market, but the cost to become a property developer and the bar from regulations are also high, so new market participant is a rare occurrence. And even when new market participant exist, when other developers acknowledged and accepted they have taken some market share, the market force would drift all developers, no matter new and old, to reduce their total supply back to lower than demand. That might mean fewer profit and fewer market share for all of them, but usually they all know it is still more profitable than saturating or oversupplying the market. In oil market they are using OPEC to discuss about it, but that would be illegal in real life due to antitrust. However businessman are usually smarter than those governments and can usually work out a sokution even when there are no exchange between those developers.

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Gonna post a couple of links from this place that used to sell radiators/car parts near my place. The first photo is what it looked like in 2007 (ty google maps), and the video and graff photo are from this year, as of now the entire thing's been demolished and converted into apartments (as is pretty much fucking everything in Melbourne) one of my favorite spots to explore and fuck around. Wish I took more photos.

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graff photo and short vid
https://youtu.be/gEJNyWD5BCQ

>line is at max capacity
>extend it to central business district
>hey, the CBD have too little space underground, let's cur the train length by 1/4
W H Y
http://www.mtr-shatincentrallink.hk/en/project-details/alignment.html

>>1028798
Ooof.

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Evolution of urban rail in Montreal.

Tram network: 1941

Initial metro network: 1967

2016 metro and commuter rail network

>>1028248
i agree point 8 is silly and predictably what the other posts have attacked

i think if the market was allowed to be more responsive housing would stop being a place to park money the way it is now, as price rises would be much more limited

for me, urban planning should be about providing excellent infrastructure and worrying less about specific land uses and forms

>>1028426
i think it was a brit

anyway you're speaking in general terms i agree with but not really engaging with the points so much

>>1028798
To be honest, the webdesign pisses me off more than the transport planning.

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>>1027243
Budapest, the old Ikarus bus factory's former rail connection is now ending in the middle of the road

Kinda old and shitty picture, but nothing changed since then

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>>1029501

>>1027936
>>1027940
Nice pics, thanks for sharing.

>>1027325
>>1028523
Did you know you can ride NJtransit to trenton and then switch to Philly regional rail and ride all the way to philadelphia from penn station? pretty neat

Cagers assblasted in the 6ix

>>1029621
Because of transit city?

>>1029626
Because the city is looking into tolling the DVP and the Gardiner

>>1028199
I think #8 is bad, #2 is extreme and probably bad, and everything else is fine. Most people have been attacking #8, but the majority of those prescriptions are sensible, like replacing affordable housing / housing benefits with direct monetary support (i.e. welfare benefits that don't have conditions on how you can spend the money).

>>1028684
The total number of land can be developed are naturally limited, in some megacities like Shanghai, if you want affordable housing then you would have to go 2 hours away from city center. Yes property development in Shanghai is constrained but that doesn't mean relaxing those constraints can let property developers choose to build affordable housing nearer to city center where they could have gain more profut

>>1029748
Developers will always build to maximize their profit, and this usually means building high-margin luxury units in high-demand areas.
That still helps housing affordability by opening up older high-end housing stock to lower economic tiers.

In a dysfunctional housing market like San Fransisco, you get the reverse happening. The rich buy multifamily buildings and convert them from multiple relatively affordable units to a single luxury unit.

>>1029751
>open up older high end housing stock
Does not apply to cities undergoing expansion liks Shabghai, where old building are rare and even if they exist they can still cost more than the entire salary of average worker to rent.
Nor does that apply to cities like Tokyo which have a bit age and population are concentrating back to city center. Sure housing are more affordable now than 1980s-early 1990s in Tokyo but within 23 wards it is still nowhere near affordable

>>1029767
Those cities are undergoing expansion and yet are not in a housing crisis. Prices are high but not skyrocketing out of control, and older buildings (not that old, just 1970s stuff) will become the "affordable" housing the next time their economies cool off somewhat.

Meanwhile San Fransisco is growing at a much slower rate and is in a full on ridiculous housing shortage. By comparison, Tokyo has built more housing in the last decade than has the entire state of California. Housing is a market and supply and demand apply. That doesn't mean new market rate buildings are some panacea for making cities affordable to the poor, but that restricting new construction in high-demand areas exacerbates the issue.

>>1029769
>Shanghai
>Not skyrocketing out of control
????

and Tokyo (incl. neighbouring regions) have as much people as the entire California?

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>>1029767
Tokyo? Western cities would do well to follow Tokyo's flexible zoning laws and culture of rebuilding. Its 2% yearly growth rate is still 4x that of New York's.
https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60

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>>1029771
1995? What a convenient time

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>>1029778
*that one is land price not flat price, this is flat price

So apparently Guangzhou metro will open two more lines in the remainder of 2016, 4 new lines in 2017, and about 3 new lines in 2018. And there will have additional 10 more lines before 2025 and 5 more lines before 2030

so, instead of California, they are building hyperloop betweeb Dubai and Abu Dhabi?

mp.weixin.qq.com/s/4KrY4Z0_QJxyJmE9OB3IJg
24 upcoming intercity rail around Beijing announced
In 6th picture of that page,
black = existing intercity line
sky blue = constructing high speed passenger line
red = lines to be done in short term (by 2020)
green = lines under long term planning (2021-2030)
deep blue dotted = future forecast
The plan aim at connecting all major cities in the province of Hebei with either Beijing, Tianjin, or Shijiazhuang within an hour.
All existing intercity rails in China are new passenger-only lines separated from nationwide rail network. Most of those existing intercity rail are operating with a speed of 160-350 km/h.

Shenzhen planning to deploy CRH high speed trains into its metro line #18/22.... And the line's maximum speed will be up to 250km/h

>>1029692
good

>have to pay for collective public transport
>cagers basically get welfare for destroying the earth and our communities

>>1029905
Why? Metro stops are like 1-3km apart.

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>>1029970
*a correction, that is Guangzhou not Shenzhen.
Line 18/22 lines are designed to alleviate pressure on existing line 3, and they also function as a connection to faraway new districts like Nansha into city center and then extend to the north to connect with the airport. Because L18 run parallel to L3 so it can skip several smaller regions that are already served by L3 to provide higher speed link with faraway region. The segment linking Nansha and city center of Guangzhou together will be 51km(L22)/65km(L18) long and the journey time is planned to be under 30 minutes.
The attached picture is the expected system map in 2028 as illustrated by netizen (which I have not obtain permission to repost so don't repost this)

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>>1029982
segment of Line 18 with planned station and current flat price per square feet in Chinese Yuan next to those planned stations

>>1029985
*per square meter

And as such, it seems like every single region in Guangdong (except western part) are served by/building/planning metro/LRT, and all of them seems to have plan to interconnect with each other. If it is completed does that mean a single metro system covering an area equal to entire Portugal and population of a Germany?

>>1028426
>otherwise commerce and global economy would return to the way it was in the 19th century, with most people living as smallholding or tenant farmers, and most commerce would be strictly local.

You mean with massive international trade, regions specialising and exporting their produce thanks to the railways and everyone getting richer to the point that the middle class exists?

No-one organised that. No-one made a master plan in the 1890's to prescribe what would happen in the early 20th century. It all happened thanks entirely to technology and market forces.

What you are describing is mostly 17th, 18th, and very early 19th century living. After the spectacularly shitty 1840's things began getting better for a lot of people, and after the 1870's the middle class began to appear as cheaper manufactured goods and higher wages motivated by market forces started giving people more free time and more spare money.

>>1030003
like, slavery is also part of free market

>Abandoned infrastructure edition

Obligatory;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfn3_nqQK28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ju7TsFy8vI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZrdoqRZXss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNh_-aiFAQc

>>1029107
yes, allow the DOMESTIC market to respond. Housing is an investment asset solely because our cities are more desirable than their cities, as they're economic powerhouses and more stable for instance. Our middle class cannot (can not; can't) compete with the millions of foreign millionaires and billionaires wanting to use our property as rheir banking. Fuck them! Add a tax or a fee to vacant appartments, so they'll lose money if they don't rent or live here. I'd say 10 thousand pounds an year. Fuck them and their pockets too

>>1029107
The high investment required and high entry barrier in housing industry dictated that it is rather impossible for the market to be more responsive.

>>1030205
supply would increase and demand would decrease but once the balance point is reached and as long as there are bet gain in population the property price would rise again

>>1030210
population, and thus demand, is increasing regardless.

>>1030210
and by the way natural growth is negative in the uk and most of the west iirc, demand is artificial due to foreign investment/sloppy planning/overregulation

>>1030221
>demand is artificial due to foreign investment/sloppy planning/overregulation
Housing demand is also in part due to immigration and structural changes in family sizes (divorce, etc.)

>>1030258
Regardless, if the parliament wanted to, this crisis could be solved without much trouble.

>>1029778
>>1029779
It looks like the same as now on both of those images and he didn't make the graph himself, I don't know what you're trying to say other than "I'm a retard who has no idea what I'm talking about" (in case anyone wasn't convinced already).

>>1029966
>people who can't afford to live near public transit have to pay even more
>rich people who live in the middle of the city now have even more access to public transit that's cheaper
>"cagers" are the only people who ever need roads to exist, because there's no such thing as trucks, buses, or any of the various reasons people might not be able to take a 5 hour walk to work in each direction every day

>>1030205
Does anyone have any proof of the "foreign billionaires buying up every piece of property in the city then letting it sit empty and not even renting it out just to screw over the local people because they hate us" meme? It sounds nice because it gives you an evil strawman to attack, but it's not anything I've ever seen actually happen and sounds like the sort of thing whiners on the internet made up to avoid the reality of supply and demand, which is also the only context I've seen it used in. It's also usually accompanied by "it's literally impossible to stay alive anywhere in a 100 mile radius of here unless you're earning millions of dollars a year" and/or excessive outrage that a family of 6 can't afford to live in a desirable neighborhood on a single minimum wage part time job.

>>1030342
Around here people buy apartments and rent them out to tourists, some legally, some illegally. This is driving up rent prices like mad while people are thrown out of their old neighbourhoods.

>>1030338
>be poor
>"living in the city is too expensive" and go live in the burbs
>need a car to get around
>what you save in rent you pay for your car
well boo hoo, mr too fancy for a small flat wanted to have his mcmansion and now throws a sissy fit over the city not wanting his deathcage poisoning the air, cry me a fucking river.

>>1029549
I know a few people who have done this, especially because it's a lot cheaper than Amtrak, but I haven't done it yet. I'll try it someday...

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Recent article from business insider

Rents are plunging in the most expensive markets

All heck is breaking loose in San Francisco…

>But not because the economy has tanked in the most ludicrously expensive rental market in the US, which it has not. Enormous supply is flooding the market, thanks to a historic construction boom not only of apartment towers but also of condo towers, whose investor-owned units, now that selling them has become tough, are appearing on the rental market.

>Nearly all of the new supply is high end, and it is pressuring the market from the top down.

>The median asking rent – half are lower, half are higher – for a one-bedroom apartment fell 7.9% year-over-year to $3,380, according to Zumper, which analyzes rental data from over 1 million active rental listings in multi-family buildings (it does not include single-family houses on the rental market). For a two-bedroom, asking rent fell 6.6% year-over-year to $4,670. The fourth month in a row of year-over-year declines.

>The last time rents declined year-over-year was in April 2010. In October 2015, the median rent for a two-bedroom had soared 11% year-over-year to a famously ludicrous $5,000, according to Zumper. Double-digit rent increases had been common. Hence the local term for this situation: “the San Francisco Housing Crisis,” when teachers cannot afford to rent a median one-bedroom apartment in the city.

>Even now, rent of $4,670 a month for a median two-bedroom works out to be about $56,000 a year, nearly the median annual household income in the US. Even in San Francisco, not all that many households can afford those kinds of rents. Hence an affordability problem that is turning into a demand problem.

>>1030418
Boy a link sure would have been nice

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-rental-market-analysis-2016-11

>group project on sustainable development
>topic for our group: railway extension
>group members: railway extension projects are nothing more than an excuse to subsidies construction workers to live their life and give them something to do. Those convenience come with that are merely a by-product.
How to proceed and possibly correct that conception? He do commute via rail lines everyday but that does not help....

Why would Japan's Shizuoka city set a maximum limit in area for each individual shops outside the city core?

>>1030210
>The high investment required and high entry barrier

barriers and costs that would be reduced if you reduced regulation

>>1030205
>Add a tax or a fee to vacant appartments

you can't reasonably implement this type of tax

besides, only a tiny minority of apartments are actually left empty. it's a non-issue

>>1030627
still... you need billions to buy lands and billions to build on top of that.

>>1030610
thats a silly thing for your group members to say

Do you really think higher levels of government are just giving money to construction workers for the sake of it, or are they actually thinking about extending rail services for the benefit of the region?

>>1030619
probably to encourage density in areas outside the CBD.

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>>1030085
how did he find a gf interested in cycling along abandoned railway tracks

>>1030342
Its very much real in Vancouver. priced me out. fuck you desu

>>1030692
Official reason is to get people back into CBD

>>1030686
Of course I don't think it that way, but the fact that local government announce all the major recent under the name of lowering unemployment, and then blame oppositions questioning those infrastructure necessity for causing unemployment, as well as blaming those who initate legal challenge on the legitimacy of environmental effect report for breaking the livelihood of construction worker even when the case is established, seems to make people think in this way.

>>1030342
You can stay alive, but you have to pay 300 USD a month just for one bed in some illegal building, and the median income here is 1200 USD, with those living down the bottom of the social ladder gaining half that amount every month.

>>1031658
btw local unemployment rate is always under 5% and frequently under 4% over the last 10 years although underemployment rate is slightly higher

>>1030709

Japanese men have too much self-respect to date a woman with an obvious physical defect, e.g. wearing glasses

>>1030709
shes a female autist

>>1027249
The only thing it is currently used for is a high pressure water main and fiber optic cabling.

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Whats the highest level of service offered by your local transit agency?

Here in Montreal the metro has a rush hour frequency of 2 minutes in the peak direction.

There are also bus lines that have 3-5 minute rush hour headways. (Many bus lines transport over 10,000 passengers a day)

Here's a map of the metro and frequent bus lines.

>>1031655
no, zoning is what priced you out

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>>1031956
Ten minute headways on our LRT are standard from 6a to 8p. When we had one line headways were sometimes 8 minutes but now that the two lines merge onto one set of surface tracks downtown they say there isn't enough time to allow other movement of traffic.

Some bus routes have 3-5 minute headways during rush hour but they're typically only for portions of the route eg the 3 miles outside of downtown rather than the 10 miles the full route normally goes out of downtown

>>1031960
>but they're typically only for portions of the route
Is that portrayed with the thick grey lines thinning out?

And how does that work? Doesn't it lead to extreme bus bunching? If the headway is 5 minutes downtown and lets say 10 minutes outside of the CBD, do the buses just stop for an extended period of time?

Are those orange and red lines BRT? Because there's no transfer station where it touches the LRT network.

Also if its 10 minute headways on both lines does that translate to 5 minute headways on the mainline?

Finally, how does travelling from St-Paul CBD to Minneapolis CBD work?

>>1031959
>zoning is what priced you out

What the fuck do you even mean by this? Are you some retard that thinks Vancouver hasn't been allowed to build vertically? Look up "Vancouverism", the zoning laws in this city are studied and emulated by cities around the world. There's also heavy usage of mixed-used buildings further increasing density.

Vancouver's real estate problems are 100% foreign. New money chinese coming in to dump their dirty manipulated yuan in Canada. There are new condo projects going up all the fucking time but the amount of young canadian professionals and families able to afford them shrinks every day.

Now I'm in fucking SURREY because of this shitstain chinese.

Honestly fuck you with your "let me tell you about your city" attitude.

Are you from SF? Thats the west coast zoning disaster housing bubble shitshow

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>>1031966
The Green Line connects Downtown Saint Paul to Downtown Minneapolis. Because there are so many intermediate stops they still run the express bus #94 down Interstate 94 which connects the two downtowns. It's about 22 minutes vs 40 minutes to the same points in the middle of downtowns.

The map is a fantasy map sort of someone else made. The Orange Line is in the process of being built and is BRT. Currently the Red Line stops at Mall of America which is the ending point of the Blue Line. (I'm a little furious they named the Red Line as part of our METRO network. Around 1,000 bus rides a day only in the suburbs compared to the Blue/Green Lines which get 40,000+ rides a day each. )
The grey lines are current bus routes, thicker ones have 10 minute or more frequent headways throughout the day. Thin grey are less frequent.

I probably explained that poorly. All of the buses travel outside of the Downtown but they don't go the full distance of the route before kicking everyone out and returning along the same route. Some buses have a letter attached to their route which tells when the bus will turn around. It makes the timetable look like hell. Maybe this picture will help. Bus bunching is pretty frequent through the student neighborhood just before downtown at rush hour often due to buses being completely full.

>>1031968
>greenbelt

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NYC is getting ready to deck over another 'active' railyard.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20161202/REAL_ESTATE/161209975/state-eyes-massive-development-over-south-bronx-rail-yard#utm_medium=email&utm_source=cnyb-morning10&utm_campaign=cnyb-morning10-20161202

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>>1027243
>Thread
Found it to post in another. Filled tunnels to a temporary construction depot of the MTR Island Line.

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>>1032068
Diagram. The actual operating depot now is next to the second to last station of the line eastbound.

>>1032031
Noice.
>>1032070
Said depot houses an overhead podium development like every one in Hong Kong.

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>>1031956
All four of our light rail lines run along this route in the city center, which has only one track in each direction. That means the highest service you can get is one train every two minutes between Hauptbahnhof (Central Station) and Rathaus (Town Hall). On the individual lines, I think 5 minutes is the shortest headway you can get, but it might be a bit denser during football games, rushhour at the university or on lines 2 and 3 between the city center and the depot.

>>1032511
Looks comfy, I've only ever ridden metros in Europe, really want to try some of your light rail and tram systems.
>>1032015
The red line has 1,000 bus rides a day? Thats insane. Then again, Metro Transit transports 200,00 (283k total- 80k for LRT) bus passengers a day compared to montreal's 1.4 million daily bus riders + 200,000 bus riders from suburban agencies

There are at least 30 bus lines here that transport more people than the MTVA every day

Also the STM is installing GPS on all the buses and there will a control room kind of like an ATC to manage bunching. Will hopefully improve service in the winter, im sure as a midwesterner you know the struggle of catching a bus in the winter.

>>1032748
>Also the STM is installing GPS on all the buses and there will a control room kind of like an ATC to manage bunching.
You don't have Automated Vehicle Locators on buses already?

>>1032070
Those access tunnels seem fun to urbex.

>>1032769
Very big fleet. lots of service offered. Low on the list of priorities I guess. The suburban agencies have it and also the commuter rail

>>1032866
>Very big fleet
Wikipedia says its about 1,800 buses for 1.4 million a day. Ours is about 950 for 225,000 which seems off to me. When we count our paratransit fleet we have about 2,000 buses total, all with AVL. It's expensive to be sure especially the TransitMaster software but there are so many cool things you can do with it.

Stops on buses are announced automatically, you can look up how far away your bus is from your stop, you can integrate it with the APCs and get great data for planning purposes, even if you didn't have APCs the AVLs give great data to making sure timetables are appropriate for the route. Some of the busiest stops have electronic displays that tell you how long until the next bus for each route, when driver's send a distress call they police know exactly where the bus is. I'm not sure how much it helps with bus bunching but our transit control center is a really cool room to tour. They have about 8 stations that track how buses are doing with tons of big screen TVs tracking weather and where buses are

>>1027517
Like many cities in the US, the combination of investment in poor neighborhoods in the city + the need to keep yuppies in the area meant that the streetcar meme took hold.

Honestly, I love the streetcar, but it doesn't serve any practical purpose much like the failed Detroit People Mover (only used on weekends or during sporting events). It is interesting how they decided to build a streetcar in the most walk able areas of Cincinnati. Often time I will just walk than wait for the streetcar. The challenge they face to make it really practical is to get up those hills, specifically to get to University of Cincinnati's campus and the former streetcar suburbs.

>>1027517
Added: the original 2002 ballot that was destroyed for a city-wide transit system failed for two big reasons... the 2001 riots and the extremely low gas prices. It wasn't the right time. It should have waited until 2010s.

>>1028199
Short answer: the person who wrote this has asperger's syndrome

Long answer:
>only the market has a chance to calibrate
>market
The entire credibility of this went out the window

Libertarians are just failed republicans, and both of them have fucked over our cities way too much. Fuck neoliberalism.

>>1028412
This is an urban planner essential. That and also the Power Broker, which is what this book was written in reaction of

>>1030418
and you didn't even mention one single part of development regulations that states that for every certain amount of market rate houses built, there has to be a good amount of affordable ones built as well

>>1030418
Not even relating that much to this. But as the rents are falling in west coast cities (finally, except seattle / portland), the rents in Cincinnati, Indy, Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc are going up.

FUCK OFF STAY OUT OF MY MIDWESTERN CITIES

>>1028412
>>1033208
Think he should know or have read it already.
Any more modern and recent works on (similarly) equal footing and status?

>>1032070
Before publicizing myself I can tell you I frequent/look at the rail tunnel exit and the hill over the access tunnels in someway daily,

>>1032777
>>1033226
Fuck.

>>1033224
Well the Jacobian analysis is incomplete without taking a serious look at the zoning which got it this way.
Zoned American (1969), although out of print
https://www.amazon.com/Zoned-American-Seymour-I-Toll/dp/0670796972
Zoning Rules!
https://www.amazon.com/Zoning-Rules-Economics-Land-Regulation/dp/155844288X/
Zoned in the USA
https://www.amazon.com/Zoned-USA-Implications-American-Regulation/dp/0801479878/
The Invention of Brownstone Brooklyn
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Brownstone-Brooklyn-Gentrification-Authenticity/dp/0199930341

Transit and vehicle policy:
The High Cost of Free Parking
https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X/
Street Smart
https://www.amazon.com/Street-Smart-Rise-Cities-Fall/dp/1610395646/
Human Transit
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Transit-Clearer-Thinking-Communities/dp/1597269727/

Competing ideas on best-practice urban policy
Triumph of the City
https://www.amazon.com/Triumph-City-Greatest-Invention-Healthier/dp/0143120549
Happy City
https://www.amazon.com/Happy-City-Transforming-Through-Design/dp/0374534888/

Memes like Richard Florida should be avoided.

>>1028199
The general idea is not too bad, but this shit is fucking extreme

>>1033224
The Rent is too Damn High is good. "Edge city" isn't bad either

I know this isn't exactly "urban planning" but it's something I thought some of you might find interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bW1vuCgEaA

>>1033230
>>1033234
Thread quality up. Human Transit and Triumph of the City are my favs.

Real Americans drive cars, not this liberal "mass transit" bullshit.

Hindsight is 20/20 when planning a city, amirite?

Overpopulation is the root cause of all the urban planning failures of the last 50 years, especially in America. Prove me wrong.

>>1033286
Overpopulation is a cause of many problems, not only in urban planning.

>>1033294
I don't disagree. I'd argue its the main cause for most of the issues on the planet today.

>>1033286
Urban planning wasn't even a truly established profession in America until post-WWII. American cities since the drive for suburbanization reflect the antithesis of overpopulation. The root cause of urban planning failures is actually population migration, and encouragement and reliance of such migration.

>>1033300
Car-based suburbs would work just fine if global overpopulation didn't increase the price of oil.

>>1033286
Overcrowding is not the same as over population

>>1033301
>US is by far top consumer of crude oil
>wants to encourage more car usage
>more gridlock and wasted time commuting
>more unsustainable road/sewer infrastructure needed to support it all
>more health issues associated with pollution and lack of mobility
>more municipal bankruptcy

>US gas prices have been at their lowest in years
>suburbs still suck

GTFO. Read this.
http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/

>>1032748
>Looks comfy, I've only ever ridden metros in Europe, really want to try some of your light rail and tram systems.
Come to Bielefeld then, I can safely say that our light rail is among the comfiest. Go to Karlsruhe or Heilbronn instead if you want to satisfy your foamer autism.

>>1033286
>1033286
Overpopulation is nothing but a Malthusian meme, the earth's population will start declining in 50 years.

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>>1033369
hmmmm it looks fantastic

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>>1033286
wrong. European cities are much more livable and europe is very dense. The netherlands is one of the best countries in the world for planning. The problem is americans want to live in suburb shit with their mcmansions

>>1033301
oil price has been declining. Car based suburbs are still shit

>>1033417
The problem is the the US wasn't completely destroyed by a world war and then given the equivalent of trillions of dollars to rebuild.

>>1033438
Not the person you're responding to, but the destruction of war doesn't actually explain very much - Europe could have rebuilt on a suburban model but they chose otherwise. American cities grew dramatically after the war by expanding outwards into suburbs, but if the laws regarding Federally-backed housing loans and the Interstate Highway System had been written differently then our cities could have achieved much of more their growth inside their existing boundaries.

>>1033301
retard alert

whats a good thesis topic to write about infrastructure? I'm thinking of writing about how major arterial that link to pedestrian heavy intersections increases the risk for said pedestrians.

>>1033511
I don't really have an answer but I was in your shoes earlier this semester.
I just wrote my senior paper on transit fare policy. My other ideas were the fiscal disparities program in Minnesota or something about bus fleet management and replacement plans is for a transit agency (how do you balance mileage vs age and cost?).

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>>1033515
I had to create a city plan for the city of Chula Vista (San diego) for my class. I ended up creating a bike path linking parks, schools, and a local library which all leads to the beach.

Any feedback from anyone would be awesome. I already turned it in but still would appreciate /n/'s criticism
>pink is the bike trails, class 2
>green blocks are pocket parks
>red block is a proposed parking structure with solar panels and a clearing of 15'f for boats
>orange will be re-purposed land for future development

>>1033516
A close up of the Bayfront area
>orange is repurposed land
>red is a parking structure
>green is a proposed civic center (next to a police station)
>blue is a bypass created for people who want to do to the dock directly

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>>1033517

>>1027324
>>1027325
>>1027326
>>1027327
>>1027328
Fuckin kewl.
Why wasn't it torn down? Costs?
Would making it into a ped-only garden/walkway thingy be viable? Or is the neighbourhood purely industrial and no one ever goes there?

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>>1033414
Karlsruhe must truly seem like a gommunist hellhole to any North American.

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>>1033571
More like a gommunist paradise. Is this the s-bahn network? So karlsruhe has a population of 307,000.

This is the suburban train network I get for a metropolitan region of 4 million people.

Not adopting the cager lifestyle and living in NA is truly suffering.

>>1033571
Just noticed this also included tram lines... nice.

>>1033207
In what city have libertarians ever been a powerful force in government, and what policies did they enact?

City Kanazawa in Japan is planning a new, pedestrian and public transport oriented transportation system and develop the town center by making it the transportation network core. Some rationales raised to support construction of new transport system include:
1.Provide transportation backbone for the city in a super aging society
2.Integrate the city as a whole
3.Activate and concentrate the city to lower burden on environment
4.Improve the attractiveness of the city and its position as base to encourage communication between people.
Four representative system have been proposed, include mini-metro, monorail, LRT and BRT.
Analysis is as follow:
Town activation: mini metro/ monorail: improve city structure by acting as a backbone
LRT/BRT: Help make the city more bustle and make people more likely to visit again
Effect on view/symbol:
minimetro: underground thus no effect
monorail: large problem about view next to high rising buildings
LRT: no bad effect if overhead cable are not used, using cars with good designs can create a new symbol for the town
BRT: No foxed construction so no effect on view, using cars with good designs can create a new symbol for the town
convert from car:
mini metro: no change on existing roads so conversion effect is slim
monorail/LRT/BRT: Would eestrict inner town roads and thus conversion effect can be expected
barrier free for aging society:
mini metro/monorail: can move into out of train without height difference but need to went up/down stair to reach platform.
LRT: can move into out of train without height difference and can hop on/off on ground level
BRT: can hop on/off on grohnd level, and can get kn/out without height difference provided that works have been done on stops and drivers are skilled.
punctuality:
mini metro/monorail: very high, LRT: high, BRT: could be achieved if given dedicated lane
cooperation with existing transportation system: mini metro/LRT: can directly drive into existing rail line
monorail/BRT: transfer needed

>>1033749
space limitation:
mini metro: little as most are underground but need to make exit
Monorail: Not enough space to make station with the current road width.
LRT: In parts with not enough road width, might have to narrow pedestrian road/ buy lands/ turn into single lane/ etc.
BRT: In parts woth not enough road width, might need to use existing bus lane which would affect punctuality
effect to automobile:
mini metro: underground so no effect
others: large effect from cutting lanes, require flow control and help and understanding fron citizen
cost:
mini metro: 20-30 B JPY/km
monorail: 10-15
LRT: 3-5
BRT: 1-2

Above are content from official documents, now that they are holding some public opinion collection period for these proposals, and those proposals are like this,

>>1033750
>LRT occuping private car's road are shit
>construction cost for metro and the underused rail line is more shit, should be immediately abolished (the rail line transport 1 million peopke a year with transportation density of 1700)
>bus without punctuality are shit, kill all the bus now.
>roadside shoos along bypasses are cutting edge
>urban sprawl = justice
>kill the town center
>let makes lots of roads and fill the city with private cars
>Those who can't drive shall be abandoned

>>1033592
But Anon. The trains ARE the trams!

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>>1033591
Karlsruhe is doing this weird thing where trams and s-bahn (commuter rail) systems have merged over time. Most trains run as trams within cities and more like regional railways once they leave the centers. It is not easy to determine the actual population that is served by the system, but I think it is between one and two million people.

>>1033752
what's weird is I live in a US neighborhood that was built in the late 1800s and then abandoned due to white-flight in the 60s. The hippy generation moved in because lol black people don't bother us and we get neat old houses for cheap. Then the city was like "The city has been abandoned, we'll just eminent domain all this land and build freeways thru the city so suburbanites can use them."

In this case, the public input (from the boomer hippies that were about to lose their houses) was positive and 100% correct: They rallied against the car-ification of their part of the city center and managed to save a good bit of it. In the last 8-10 years, that whole area is booming with growth and new yuppie money is flooding in; MUPs and mixed-use development abound.

In your case, the public input is fucking horrible and will kill the city center.

I thought the nips were supposed to be smart and logical?

>>1033775
this seems like a cool idea. does it work well?

>>1033798
Apparently yes, it does. There is a whole model of transportation planning named after the system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_model

I live pretty far away from that region, but I have some relatives there. I only used the tram-like part of the system within the city (line 4 I believe) and it was pretty nice. Large parts of the city center were torn up for building a tunnel and underground stations when I was there. This is not meant to grade-separate trains from the cars on the street level. It is because there is so much train traffic going on that it has to be spread out to two different levels in the city center.
The system seems to be a role model for transport planning in Europe and around the world (see the article for examples). But it is not without its flaws. It requires trains that can run on different voltages as well as transfer stations at the city borders. Gauges need to be compatible or you need triple tracks everywhere. Kassel does the reverse where regional trains now serve tram stops in the city center, but a third rail had to be build for those since the trams do not use standard gauge.
Also, there are two different laws for tram and for train traffic in Germany, so in this system, the rules chagne at certain points on the route. For example, train drivers need to rely on signaling and controlling instead of driving the train however they see it is possible, like tram drivers can.

>>1033926
As you long as your trains and demands are light enough.

>>1033797
boomer hippies and hipsters are actually pretty based when it comes to public transit. Prolly the only good thing about that scum.

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>>1033926
>But it is not without its flaws. It requires trains that can run on different voltages as well as transfer stations at the city borders. Gauges need to be compatible or you need triple tracks everywhere. Kassel does the reverse where regional trains now serve tram stops in the city center, but a third rail had to be build for those since the trams do not use standard gauge.
However, all of these issues disappear when talking about completely new lines, or lines rebuilt from abandoned train ROWs. To me, that's more interesting than the Karslruhe-type system. It would allow a cheap tram and commuter train hybrid, very useful for places where demand isn't enough to fully warrant either a tram or a commuter train.

There used to be an interesting project for the city of Manresa, about an hour and a half from Barcelona, where the idea was to use two rail branches which are only used for freight trains to and from potassium mines. These branches are metre gauge and not electrified. In fact they're part of a metre gauge commuter system independent of the mainline railways, but passenger service was discontinued in the 1970's (when the upper portion of the line was also closed).
The idea was to build a tram-train so that the trams could run into the towns reached by these branch lines, which now end outside where the potassium mines are. On the other hand, the line would also be extended into Manresa itself, possibly reaching the mainline station which offers much more convenient service to Barcelona. The narrow gauge rail line used to run through the city of Manresa all the way to the mainline station, for freight to be transferred, but this line was also closed in the 60's or 70's. A tram line could be built basically running along the former ROW with some single-track stretches (Manresa is a very cluttered city with many hills and narrow streets, so there's no big avenues to easily lay down a tram line).

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>>1033940
Here's what the urban portion in Manresa could have looked like. In green the metre-gauge commuter line (orange squares are its stations). Mainline station marked by the blue symbol.
Follows pretty the exact alignment of the former rail ROW. This would have allowed the outlying towns served by the tram-train to be directly connected to the mainline station. Shit would have been SO cash.

But as usual, we can't have nice things. Instead, we built a useless highway somewhere else which went broke because it didn't get enough traffic. JUST

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>>1033518
>>1033516
We were given a prompt describing an imaginary city and wrote a comprehensive plan for it. We then presented the project to local planners who judged it.

Are all the pink lines actual trails or do they include bike lanes? Do you need to remove driving lanes for the bike lanes? Cagers get so upset with that stuff. That's quite a system either way.

>>1027243
what does his win mean for urban planning and /n/?

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>>1034060
>>1027243

oops forgot pic

>>1034030
>no direct subway link from acadia point to bay port
>need to transfer to orange line or inconvenient ferry
The geography suspiciously resembles Boston, if Acadia Point and Frog Leg Island were merged.

>>1033942
My city scrapped a plan that had a subway alignment with stations 5 minutes walking from the house I grew up in and my current apartment to build a 3 station stub line to service an island that had the international expo

now there are two bus lines among like 15 that service this neighbourhood that have a rush hour frequency of 2 minutes to deal with the insane of amounts of passengers that rely on them

>>1034290
We were given several East Coast cities as model cities that have similar characteristics as us. Different maps of the cities were overlaid on each other and then traced to create a new city. So likely very much like Boston.

>>1031968
the vast majority of Vancouver is single-family housing

yes it is zoning

>>1033302
>>1033286
this. it is agenda 21

>>1033657
They haven't, they're just a convenient scapegoat by people unable to form their own opinions who get all of their political "knowledge" from social media.

>>1033286
>So many lands
>only 0.3 billion people
>"overpopulated"
hahaha

>>1034520
The vast majority of the greater tokyo area is single family homes

Vancouver itself is very dense, its the metropolitan area that hasn't built up and everyone is moving there because van city is too expensive

>>1033544
The elevated portion is called the Montauk Cutoff, part of the LIRR. The structure itself is apparently unsafe for trains but there were a few parked up there. The track and signals appear to be in decent condition though.

The MTA has asked for community input for an adaptive reuse:

http://ny.curbed.com/2015/9/21/9919262/could-a-high-line-style-park-be-coming-to-long-island-city

More history on the Montauk Cutoff:

http://ltvsquad.com/2015/12/14/the-montauk-cutoff/

When I got to the Blissville Yard there were active trash trains but I don't think anything uses this spur anymore.

>>1035352
on another note, the queensway proposal better not go through

that would be a great north/south subway line to relieve the traffic along woodhaven, and the city already owns the ROW

Is there any interesting urban planning work that a lawyer can do? I'll be working for the NYC corporation counsel next summer. If I like it, I might consider pursuing municipal law full-time after I graduate.

I know it would face massive resistance from suburban homeowners, but otherwise would amending zoning codes to ban cul-de-sacs from most areas and using eminent domain to build roads to create a grid be a good idea?

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>>1035951
My urban planning professor has a masters in planning and is a lawyer. He seems to mostly do planning stuff but I thought he had an interesting career trajectory.
>>1035992
The density is likely already so low that I don't think it's worth it.

Would getting rid of zoning, and building requirements end auto-centric sprawl?

I worry that even if the legal rules were fixed, planners and developers wouldn't know how to do anything else but build shitty sprawl.

>>1036039
even despite the most retarded planning in history, we are witnessing the rebirth of the american city

suburban growth is still huge in places like pheonix but other americans cities are turning inwards

>>1036039
Houston has little to no zoning and is still autocentric sprawl. Housing is cheaper but commutes are killer and they are almost all by automobile.

>>1034065
seeing as he nominated a surgeon who thinks the pyramids were for storing grain as the head of the HUD... not very good

>>1036039
>Would getting rid of zoning, and building requirements end auto-centric sprawl?
No.

The real problem is the expectation that everyone will live a long way from where they work, and that both of those will be a long way from where they shop. Removing zoning laws will probably make little difference to that; the overhang of existing land use will keep the current problems for a long time. Instead, you need to encourage smaller zones, and to tax private road transport (including taxis) more heavily per unit distance.

>>1036039
you wouldn't kill off all auto-centric development forever, however you'd essentially revitalise inner urban areas, open up a lot more supply, and through that reduce the demand for auto-centric developments

There'd be a lot more small-scale and incremental developments compared to today as landowners would be free to make better use of their property

>>1036144
this is a myth

houston might not have zoning but it still has just as many restrictions as other cities, such as minimum lot sizes, parking requirements, setbacks, etc

>>1036247
>>Houston has little to no zoning
>this is a myth
>houston might not have zoning
???

>>1036648
Houston doesn't have zoning but it still has land use regulations that encourage car dependence, as well as preferential city, state, and federal investment in automotive infrastructure.

The "myth" in this case is that Houston's land use patterns are the result of unfettered market forces.

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MTA free of zoning shackles


[Gov] Cuomo vetoes a bill to limit a new definition of ‘transportation purposes’

Tacked onto the budget was a revision of New York public authorities law that changed the definition of “transportation purposes.” The MTA, a public authority, had previously been allowed to develop their property without restriction or obligation to follow local zoning laws as long as it was for transportation purposes, like storing equipment or building a subway station. Under the new law, the two words have far broader implications: “‘Transportation purpose’ shall mean a purpose that directly or indirectly supports all or any of the missions or purposes of the authority, any of its subsidiaries, New York City transit authority or its subsidiary, including the realization of revenues available for the costs and expenses of all or any transportation facilities.” This put all 656 known MTA properties in play for unrestricted development.

http://www.chelseanewsny.com/local-news/20161205/mta-free-of-zoning-shackles

So now the NY MTA can do TODas has been the established norm for any other foreign transit agency elsewhere in the world.

>>1037013
Fuck yeah

I've got a second interview at a private planning firm to be an intern helping making comprehensive plans for local cities. Any suggested reading before I go to the interview? It's in Minnesota if that matters.

>>1037078
Somehow it seems like Minnesota employs at least half of the American planning profession lately.

>>1037078
A planner recommended Walkable Cities by Jeff Speck to me recently.

>>1036039
A large part, yes. Making housing more affordable through density/requirements like parking minimums would make living in the city more attractive.

The other half of the puzzle is to stop subsidizing auto travel and suburban developments as much. This isnt a zoning problem but a market failure. When people arent paying the true cost of their infrastructure/travel of course they;re going to go with the more subsidized option

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>>1036015
holy shit it's real

>>1037141
But what is stopping you from just crossing over that small portion? Google maps sucks for walking paths.

>>1037078

Of all the places I've lived (Denver, Seattle LA), Minneapolis seems to have the best intentions when it comes to urban planning and development.

>>1037161
>muh right to exclude
I've found many people are anal about it

>>1037141
what that town needs is a canal network. just canoe everywhere.

>>1037138
Yes I agree, but despite the best hopes I don't see this happening in America.

There is a cultural meme denying the blatant truth about this. You have conservatives talking about undoing regulations and hating the government who flip their shit and call you an evil commie liberal for wanting to change these policies to protect their suburban meme image in their mind.

Same thing with liberals, who act like your supporting some evil corporate developers and it's going to be worse for the environment.

No matter how much I tell people they don't understand the role of subsidies and regulations that causes the market to do this. Even my uncle who owns his own construction company gave me "it's the market meme" and gave a blank stare when I told him subsidies causes people to not pay the actual price of their suburban houses.

>>1037325
You'd think libertarians would be all over getting rid government restrictions on how much you can build on your own property.

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Is the medium height apartment block the ultimate unbeatable standard of urban planning?

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Urban planning and public transportation in north America:
Mississauga is a 700k city in Canada. City public trasnportation is basicly just buses and some trains. So they build this huge and probably also very expensive "Transitway" aka BRT ROW road.
Where is the problem? Well...if there's a bus running only like once in 20 minutes in morning rush hour, and after 12 PM only once in half hour (on Sundays no buses at all), it isn't really convenient you know.

This is the reason why public transportation in north America (no matter if Canada or USA) in most of the cases just doesn't work.
They invest huge money in overpriced stupidly planned infrastructure and then no money at all to the service.

Just look at the picture, you can't think this is money well spent at all.

>>1037672
not sure, but it's definitely a highly efficient and desirable construction form in inner-city midrise areas

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>>1037672
>tfw you live in that small flat of the ground floor oriented to the inner courtyard and literally never see the sun

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>>1037747
>tfw no screen glare

>>1037747
thats why you go to the cafe around the corner

>>1037767
>tfw suburbanites will never know the pleasure of going to a cozy little cafe just across the street
they deserve our pity

>>1037747
that's just a sign you should use it mostly for sleep and not stay in it too much

>>1037683
Mississauga is a shit hole

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>>1037683
I don't believe that the Transitway was that bad of an investment.

Although it's alignment is bad and it went overbudget and overscheduled it shaves quite a bit of time off commutes. By the time the Transitway completely opens, route 109 would of bypassed at least over a dozen sets of traffic lights.

As for usage, the routes are becoming more used. Just before the Transitway opened, 109 ran every ~20 mins during midday and peak, with service ending at ~8pm. Currently 109 runs ~10 mins during peak, ~15 mins during midday, and ~25 mins during evenings, with service ending at ~11pm. Also added was Saturday service at ~25 mins and Sunday service at ~20 mins (starts this week).

On top of that, MiWay has started running articulated buses on route 109 because a lot of trips were becoming packed with regular sized buses. (I wish my trip ran with one, its always packed and the bus driver has road rage and a lead foot).

As for 107, it runs ~15 mins during peak, ~20 mins during midday, and ~21 mins on Saturdays, with no service on Sundays.

Also Winston Churchill station opens today (January 2) which gets rids of 5 sets of traffic lights.

>>1037820
Yes indeed.

>>1037683
>>1037827
This cannot be real

>>1037827
>Currently 109 runs ~10 mins during peak, ~15 mins during midday, and ~25 mins during evenings, with service ending at ~11pm

I checked the connection between 2 random station (already don't know which ones, sorry) at Transitway online connection finder. It showed me the schedule which looked like the way I described it with service ending around 8 PM.

>>1037882
We like building busways and other infrastructure at great cost and then not actually funding decent levels of service.

Let me tell you about CTfastrak. It's a $600 million 10 mile long busway built on an old rail ROW. It was sold as being much cheaper than rail service restoration. Btw, since the busway is wider than the old rail ROW, parts are only 1 lane wide.

Meanwhile, the nearby Hartford Commuter rail line is being built, also for $600 million, which entails redoubletracking the 60 mile line from New Haven to Springfield, and building new stations.

In a decade(or two), both projects will have to be rebuilt again through Hartford because the adjacent I84 highway is going to be nuked and rebuilt.

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>>1037885
Which site did you use? I'm using http://www4.mississauga.ca/planatrip/ .


In the pic, I've compiled various stop schedules from the link above. They are:

>Battleford Road: south and northbound (one stop away from Meadowvale Town Centre Transit Terminal)
>Central Parkway Station: south and north bound
>Skymark Hub: southbound (future Renforth Gateway Station)
>Green Lanes: northbound (right outside Islington Station)

You can see that the last southbound trip towards Islington arrives at Central Park Station at 10:07pm. The last northbound trip towards Meadowvale Town Centre arrives at Central Park Station at 11:10pm.

I've also calculated the frequencies through Central Parkway Station (in blue).

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/12/31/how-tos/getting-cozy-next-door-neighbors/

https://catforehead.com/2017/01/03/suburban-blight-japanese-style/

The Japanese model of housing development has lead to a glut of abandoned housing and overproduction of small houses very close together without proper connections to infrastructure.

>>1038043
oh noo we have too many house nao
t. japan

the other one is only a problem bcause the thing is noisy, just keep this shit well isolated or dont turn it on at all

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>>1037882
As real as it gets
https://tcf.org/content/commentary/our-failed-federal-transit-policy/

>>1037396
There are very few true libertarians in America. Most of them will cry foul on any restriction of their rights, but will happily restrict the rights of others to preserve their lifestyle or finances.

>>1037396
They are, when you give them the chance:
http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-crystal-minnesota-libertarians.html

>>1038421
>blame feds
What a pathetic cop out. It's the provincial government that's at fault for promoting suburban degeneracy and the morons who voted them in

>>1037672
>less than 20 floors
>"Medium height"
what

>>1038834
Those are eight stories tall, which is the boundary between mid-rise and high-rise.

12 and up is firmly in high-rise territory.

>>1038845
12 floors aren't even 50m. I think at least 100-150m are where high rise building construction protocol start to kick in? I don't think you need to put refuge floors in buildings shorter than 100m.

>>1037934

Why is it that Connecticut is always at the forefront of stupid shit like this? I have never seen a state more intent on proving that government intervention in transit is actually sometimes worse than having nothing at all.

Perfect example: CTfastrak. They took a rail route going between Hartford and the two largest cities in its near vicinity (New Britain and Bristol) and turned it into this expensive busway that will never be as useful as reactivating the actual railroad and now can never be fully integrated with the existing transit systems in the state. This single move ensured that the Metro-North and any other New York City based railroad is never, ever, EVER going to come to Hartford, despite Connecticut's sole reason for existing nowadays being that it is a satellite of NYC.

This insistence that every new transit project be incompatible with other networks and a completely new idea, separate from expanding existing services is quite possible the worst meme to have ever gotten into people's heads.

See also:

Every people mover system in existence (Jacksonville and Detroit being the worst offenders), monorails (what a meme if I ever saw one), and busways (all the downsides of a bus AND a train, oh joy).

>>1038730
Suburbanization was a federally funded program since day one. Like you know the nuances of American federal subsidies to metro regions any better.

>>1038869
In the International building code a high rise is defined as a building that measures more than 75' from the finished floor of the lowest street access level to the finished floor of the highest occupied floor. the highest low rise building you will see is about 88' to the roof. 7-8 stories, depending on height of each

>>1038887
Busways aren't all bad, the real problem comes from people selling them as equivalent to rail, when of course they're not. My city has a busway network, fully grade separated, that works quite well, especially since you can have commuter lines that don't require transfers. Light rail would've been nicer, of course, but for a corridor that's doing fine with bus service, in a city that isn't growing and is generally cash-poor, it's a fine solution.

>>1038834
you are retarded, don't ever reply to me again

>>1038917
pittsburgh?

>>1038998
yep

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/05/buffalo-new-york-completely-eliminates-parking-minimums-1st-large-city-us/

>>1038887
The REALLY stupid part is that apparently AMTRAK still has the rights to an easement on one of the tracks that they tore up to build the busway. So if traffic grows on the remaining tracks, AMTRAK could rip up the busway to put the tracks back, and there's nothing CDOT can do about it.

Also, because of the disaster that the CT state budget is this year, the state proposed cutting DOT funding by 10%. Somehow this leads to the DOT proposing to cut branchline and ShorelineEast service by 50%.

>>1039020
Forgot to mention that it recently came out that the state canceled the charters/licenses for private bus companies that were running in the Waterbury/New Britain/Hartford corridor.

>>1038904
Why would you interject about American bullshit on a clearly Canadian post. No wonder everyone wants to bomb the shit out you

>>1038917

I'm skeptical that busways are ever a good investment. Think about it: busses are much lower capacity than light rail or commuter rail and grade separation makes transit less effective (this is why streetcars do better than grade separate light rail in many cities). So you have a lower capacity vehicle shooting itself in the foot by sacrificing its normal versatility and main function (ie, not being grade separated and being able to go wherever it needs to go). I mean, I suppose that there are a few times when it's acceptable, but I refuse to believe that a busway is better than just giving a bus signal priority and transit lanes on a regular street.

>>1039020

That's beyond hilarious. I can't wait for Amtrak to manage to dig itself out of the unprofitable hole it is in now and BTFO some people like that. Central Connecticut is one of the most underserved areas for transit in New England (closely followed by the area around Worcester and the NH corridors). This is a direct result of the Metro-North's and CDOT's incompetence, laziness, and willful ineptitude when dealing with rail transit.

On a semi related note, the reason that Amtrak isn't making even more money on the Northeast Corridor is because the Metro-North refuses to let trains go faster than 50 miles an hour on its tracks, among other things. Connecticut is an entire state of transit failure and surburban cancer.

>>1039022

It's like somebody modeled the government of a state around the nosy neighbor who runs the local homeowner's association. I guess we can put that into the very long column of 'Connecticut needs to be nuked' list. Being an urban planner in New England must be like trying to conduct an orchestra consisting of nothing but monkeys and autistic children holding cymbals.

>>1039191
What cities have streetcars that perform better than a grade separated system?

>>1037934
>In a decade(or two), both projects will have to be rebuilt again through Hartford because the adjacent I84 highway is going to be nuked and rebuilt.

Sounds to me that was done on purpose. Someones going to make money on that.

>>1039191
Honestly North America should just give up and hire European planners to do it for us, were clearly too fucking stupid to make something decent ourselves.

>>1039198
>streetcars
>grade-separated
The raison d'etre or ultimately definition of a dedicated light rail transit over streetcar is any degree grade separation for forming a transit backbone where lies dense linear corridor with concentrated and on-the-way main line serviceable demand.

Streetcars are a step up from bus for door-to-door, seamless accessibility at-grade. A grade separated counterpart is LRT vs BRT, which may be a tram-train on main line or an independent metro-esque (hence sometimes light metro) network.

Bus and (commuter) rail forms the basic transit network. The natural upgrade/expansion goes to trams in lieur of bus and/or a grade separated BRT/LRT (similarly dependent geographically), then (mainline-compatible) S-Bahn and metro.

That's how I look at it. Apples and oranges. You are sorting out your priorities and demanded role in asking this question during planning.

>>1038917
>>1039191
>50 miles
Wut. Does it think metro. Stupid Americans.

>>1039229
I use S-Bahn here for inner city rail or mainline-compatible through service on metro (think Japan).

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>>1039215
It wasn't really done on purpose. When they were originally built, the rail line and the highway had to snake around Asylum hill and dense development. Allow for half a century of urban decay, and now there's no development in the way of straightening everything out. It would have been nice to coordinate the highway rebuild with the track upgrade/ busway construction, but the highway plans weren't advanced enough when the other projects were underway.

>>1039019
yay for my home city, i'm hoping to work there down the road

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>>1037672
No, raised podium construction is.

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>>1039198

>What cities have streetcars that perform better than a grade separated system?

Toronto, for one. At grade streetcars in general have higher passengers per mile and lower costs, although this isn't always exclusively true.

>>1039229

>S-Bahn

You Europeans need to get out with that meme. Turning streetcars into some form of hybrid subway-bus was the worst possible decision ever made, because it ensured that streetcars would be trapped with the downsides of both and be relegated to some sort of second-class system. Higher cost than a bus, but not the capacity and speed of a true subway.

Grade separation is not a natural upgrade to public transit that is designed to service streets rather than large centers of population.

>>1039309

>that pic

Think, only a mere 50 years ago every inch of that was dense urban development. Hartford is only a few steps above Detroit in urban decay, what a shit-show.

>>1039524
Toronto's streetcar system has pretty shitty performance.

>>1039524
>You Europeans need to get out with that meme. Turning streetcars into some form of hybrid subway-bus was the worst possible decision ever made, because it ensured that streetcars would be trapped with the downsides of both and be relegated to some sort of second-class system. Higher cost than a bus, but not the capacity and speed of a true subway.
>Grade separation is not a natural upgrade to public transit that is designed to service streets rather than large centers of population.
You're confusing S-Bahn and Stadtbahn, m8. S-Bahn is roughly equal to a commuter rail service. It is always heavy rail. It can be a little more like a fully grade-separated metro (Berlin) or more like a regional railway (Bremen).
A Stadtbahn is usually a tram with grade-separated sections in the city center. The rest of the network can be separate from road traffic, have its own right of way or run on the street. Granted, it is much more expensive than buses. But it reaches the same speeds as a subway in the grade-separated sections and the additional capacity of heavy rail trains is not needed. Many systems solve the discrepancy in demand between city center and periphery by splitting the lines on the way out of the city center. Take a look at Hannover or Stuttgart for example.

You're not alone in your confusion of the two terms. Here in Bielefeld, most people call the Stadtbahn an S-Bahn because they have never been to a metropolitan area and can't tell the difference. The next S-Bahn stations are a whopping 50km away.

>>1039452
Anything without shops, offices, access, space on ground floor or podium floor is beatable. Cake construction and clusters without anything but concrete floor is cancer.

>>1039524
That's what I was suggesting?

>>1039524
>Think, only a mere 50 years ago every inch of that was dense urban development. Hartford is only a few steps above Detroit in urban decay, what a shit-show.

Truly. Here's the same area of Hartford in 1934

>>1039684
His confusion or my fault aside, Stadbahn is the term I should have added. Was using S-Bahn to describe a blend of metro and the wider rail service, thus Stadbahn for light metro / pre-metro LRT.

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>>1039692

>>1039684
stadtbahn = light rail
strassenbahn = streetcar/tram

THE WHOLE POINT OF BUSES IS THAT THEY DONT HAVE FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>1039705
Dense, idiotic American way of thinking. This is why the US has such shit transit: when cities add bus-only lanes, all-door boarding and prepaid/POP fares they have to dress it up with useless branding and call it BRT, maybe relegate it to a single suburban line. In Europe they call it "the bus".

>>1039524
Stop sperging out, there are perfectly valid reasons why German cities can justify Stadtbahnen.
>>1036922

>>1039706
>tfw my city is building a half a billion BRT line on a transit corridor that could easily support a metro and which lines were planned since the 70s

Kill me

>>1039706
Your understanding of demographics, geography, and history is dog shit. I suggest not being such a pompous cunt, and then killing yourself.

>>1039710
Which city

>>1039706
>dense
>American
pick one

>>1039723
What a retard.

>>1039751
Montreal

>>1040130
Doubling down on your own stupidity is not a great strategy.

>>1039695
Tram is pretty much light rail. Light rail is an American-only term, and is hardly informative.
I guess commuter rail is a better term, if you mean fully grade separated trains operating on urban - suburban paths.

>>1039723
At least his responses use minimal reason and logic, unlike your name calling.

>>1040317
>Tram is pretty much light rail
>commuter rail
Wtf deeper into wrong territory. Your terms are not informative at all. Do you not know their differences?
Tram corresponds to streetcar. Light rail as commonly used is light rail (transit). Tram isn't "pretty much" light rail. It's only that we don't use heavy rail to refer to anything we ride that creates this illusion.
If you insist on yout terminology, when your stadbahn has an outer tram-train system serving longer distance than light rail you may call it a light commuter rail portion (???). Commuter rail itself is heavy rail.

>>1039695
To add on it, stadbahn = light rail / tram + light rail rapid transit / pre-metro (Light metro? Not sure on its capacity vis-a-vis medium capacity rail in general). Trams are trams. Light rail is light rail. Their traffic rights of way (not land RoW) are different. All those non-fully-elevated light rail can be confusing.

>>1040375
not him but i think tram and light rail are pretty exchangable although nuance difference might exist.
And i don't think commuter rail need to be heavy rail, like look at those interurban
and traffic row are definotely not defining factor, things are pretty much mixed across both.

>>1039524
but light rails here carry more passengers per floor space than metro system?

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>>1040413
>not him but i think tram and light rail are pretty exchangable although nuance difference might exist.
But you are wrong. Have you ever read up on anything about transport terminology? Light rail is not the same as a tram or streetcar:
>A tram (also known as tramcar; and in North America known as streetcar, trolley or trolley car) is a rail vehicle which runs on tracks along public urban streets, and also sometimes on a segregated right of way.[1] The lines or networks operated by tramcars are called tramways. Tramways powered by electricity, the most common type historically, were once called electric street railways (mainly in the USA).
>Light rail, light rail transit (LRT) or fast tram is urban public transport using rolling stock similar to a tramway, but operating at a higher capacity, and often on an exclusive right-of-way.
>>1040413
>And i don't think commuter rail need to be heavy rail, like look at those interurban
and traffic row are definotely not defining factor, things are pretty much mixed across both.
I have never heared anyone use the term commuter rail as a hypernym for interurbans. Commuter rail can be powered by electricity or diesel, and it can share track with other national or regional railways that transport goods or people. An interurban is just a streetcar that runs across the countryside and is an independent line or part of a city-specific system.
Unless of course you're referring to commuter rail as "rail used by people to commute to work", in which case you can apply it to everything from horse tramway to maglev trains.

Another important aspect of transport terminology are regional differences. There are no Stadtbahnen in North America and there are is no light rail in Central Europe. There are also differences in terms between the UK and the US and so on.

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>>1040471
>>A tram (also known as tramcar; and in North America known as streetcar, trolley or trolley car)
>>Light rail, light rail transit (LRT) or fast tram
Your very own sources contradict you pretty much.

I don't like American terminology, it's really misleading.

The very name "streetcar" implies that it's a car riding on the street, as contrary to a "railcar", riding on the rail. The term "trolley" is even more confusing, being more often understood as a trolleybus –a bus with catenary.

US language also fucks up and misuses the term "tram", applying it to so distinct concepts, as trolleybus and even cable car.

Now with light rail, how is it different from busy tram line? Is it a term describing only a subset of tram networks? What is its name even meant to describe?

>Unless of course you're referring to commuter rail as "rail used by people to commute to work", in which case you can apply it to everything from horse tramway to maglev trains.
Or maybe it's using commuter in its name, because of meaning of the word commuter (adj.), "designed for use by commuters", which relates to noun of the same spelling, meaning "a person who regularly travels from one place to another, typically to work"?
And because of that, it's not called, I don't know, passenger train? tourist train? electric train? diesel train? hybrid train? express train? intercity train? regional train? high-speed rail?
The names often reflect what they are meant to express.

>>1040574
>fast tram
The point is fast. Is light metro metro when it's not heavy rail? Is a tram-train light rail (not LRT) outside street-running sections? Would a AGT or monorail system not be metro or heavy rail without steel wheels running on steel rail? Is a maglev not HSR because it's not in contact with a rail? Generally trams should refer to streetcars. It may encompass LRT but it shouldn't be taken as such.

>light rail vs tram
Either I wasn't clear enough >>1040375 or you are mixing up two light rail concepts. Light rail (not LRT) contrasts heavy rail first technically. It is a category encompassing LRT and tram/streetcar.
The point of traffic RoW is that we have one type of light rail mostly street-running (streetcar) and one mostly with exlusive RoW on your standard ballasts and sleepers (LRT). If you search more carefully you will see the results and implications. LRTs usually have traffic priority. If you have a fully grade-separated system without grade crossings it would now be a light rail rapid transit, light rapid transit, stadbahn, pre-metro or even light metro (barely), into the medium capacity (intermediate rail?) category.

>commuter rail
Most if not all commuter rail is heavy rail, as how light rail is used instead of light rail transit in the common place, not as an umbrella term type-classifying.

>>1040574
>>1040584
In case you try to argue the scope and line drawn, a BRT is still BRT if you have normal street-running bus entering and exiting the system. We will know it when we see it.

>>1040471
There are tons of light rails run on street.

Anyone following the Neighborhood Integrity Initiative in Los Angeles?

http://www.voteyesons.org/

>>1037683
Missisasuga!

>>1040702
vote that nonsense down

>>1040702
I can't even figure out what they want to do

>>1040674
Exclusively? Then why isn't it called a tram?

>>1040719
Why not call it both? Who gives a shit?

Is it a giod idea to turn Nathan road in Hong Kong into a BRT corridor?

>>1040761
Don't all the private buses already frequent Nathan road?

>>1040719
There are also streetcars ("trams") that run on dedicated right-of-way. These terms are fuzzy and have more to do with region, culture, and the era they were built that technical specifications.

>>1040776
yes, but i am thinking about if a brt cprridor is built can all the service there get streamlined. Although the service is already quite streamlined....

>>1040809
Then they don't need a BRT

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rapid gentrification of the industrial docklands adjacent to downtown

>>1029549
I do it all the time, since I live across the river from Trenton. Makes my life a shit ton easier, since I visit friends in Manhattan constantly.

>>1040718
it's a nimby proposal

it would HEAVILY restrict the granting of variances for planning in LA which you need to build anything that isn't a surburban 2-story

don't believe their lies

>>1040761
>>1040776
No.
1. It's not how buses here do teir work.
2. There's a rapid transit corridor underneath.
3. It's not that congested with buses desu. Bus routes aren't that much of a mess.
Right now you want BRT where rapid transit is needed. South Island Line Western section is your candidate. East Kowloon in general, as with east-west cross-Kowloon routes until highways and rail open. West NT has light rail so East and North NT. Tsing Yi and Tseung Wan.
About streamlining and interchanges akin to BRT, you have Tuen Mun Road along Castle Peak Road which makes a good corridor but without sufficient space for stops, forcing one down to the slower (though more accessible) alternative. It's the norm here. Highway bus stops, bus interchanges and terminals aren't done well enough even with rail supremacist dominating. Need to highlight this.

>>1040828
>Montreal
and nothing of value was lost

fucking assholes the lot of them

>>1040955
Its the best major city in north america, come at me fag

>>1039706

Oh look, yet another smug elitist European who knows jack shit about American urban planning. Listen here, pal, before the highways we had a transit system that made yours look backwater. Nobody gives a fuck what you Euros think. Any old faggot can build a dedicated bus lane that nobody uses.

>>1041105
the inability to put infrastructures into work is exactly the point

>>1041024
>city run by the mob
>best

>>1041128
>>1041128
new

>>1028199
Generally agree with most of it but it could be toned down a bit.

I disagree with #8 in particular.

Anyone know anything about the Growth and Structure of Cities major at Bryn Mawr? I'm looking to major in this next year and possibly apply for their 3/2 masters program with Upenn.

>>1042877
Post in the new thread

>>1028199
i took a theory seminar with patrik s. his scholarship is questionable, he has no editor, nobody to push back on him, and he legit. thinks that child labor laws should be overturned.