/BRT/ - Bike Training and Racing thread

Base season. Two sweet spot trainer days after work, two pre-work lifts, and 2x75mi on the weekend. I'm even getting good at riding hungover on Sundays.

how much dosh should i spend on a bike computer? i want cadence speed HR, im 100 pages in the training bible.

>>1015257
Buy something that's Ant+ compatible and will support a power meter, so you won't have to worry about proprietary sensors and pickups that you can't get, and in case you get a power meter of some sort later.

>>1015213
>How fares your training, /brt/?
Haven't officially started Fall training yet, even if I'm still riding and going to the gym, but I'm sick at the moment so I'm not doing anything.

>>1015257
Theres no real point to getting a computer unless you get a power meter so get one that can display power and get a meter later after you save up for it, garmin 500 is probably the most common and best/affordable computer

cadence and HR are pretty much useless after a couple rides once you know what is a comfortable cadence (its personal preference, some people like spinning, some people like slower grinding, neither is better than the other) HR varies so much I never use it and just ride to power if I'm doing structured training

>>1015213
How fast do you guys lose fitness?

If I take a mere week off riding, the next week back on my fitness feels almost non-existent, like I've never ridden a bike before. Its fucking annoying. Spend 3 months trashing yourself in training to start see some decent numbers, go for a vacation for a week, all that fitness and work is gone.

>>1015365
That's definitely not normal. My diet isn't even that great but taking a week off from riding has never really hindered me that badly. It kind of sounds like you're over training then not doing anything for a week which doesn't sound very good for the recovery of your muscles

>>1015371
It only takes about 10 days of not training to lose up to 30% of VO2Max.

Aerobic base is slower to degrade.

Someone explain to me why using a Normalized Power readout of a highly-strenuous 1-hour ride (specifically ONLY on a controlled course with no traffic lights or stop signs) cannot be used as a baseline for calculating FTP.

>get sick just before the cx season starts
>get saddle sores after getting healthy and back onto bike
ree

>>1015365
sounds like you have shit genetics no offense,. I can gain 25 watts on my ftp in <30 days and I'm at 340 watts atm. Basically I've ridden 6-8hrs a week for the last 6 weeks and went from 355-340 watt ftp and I know if I did a few days of 20x3 I would rocket back to 355 watts desu

>>1015375
Honestly i'd say it is, especially if it's a hilly course with lots of power variation.

Normalized power of a TT usually doesnt vary much

>>1015364
>cadence and HR are pretty much useless after a couple rides
Uh, no.

>>1015365
I read something somewhere that the reason you feel like you lost fitness instead of gaining it after an active recovery week, is that your body stops producing the endorphins and other pain moderators that it was producing in the previous weeks of training, so while you actually did gain some fitness, it doesn't feel like it because now you're feeling all of the pain of how much you've been beating yourself up.

Now, if you're really not riding at ALL during your recovery week, then frankly you're screwing up. You should reduce the overall volume during that week, and the intensity down to mainly in zone 2 (basic endurance). As an example if you were training around 500 hours a year, about 7 hours total is what your recovery week should be.

>>1015375
Because it's not the actual average, it's what they call a 'weighted' average. If, for instance, you keep having squirrels, turkeys, deer, and the odd coyote jumping out in front of you during your 60 minute Tempo interval, causing you to stop pedaling and hit the brakes a bunch of times (not a random example btw, where I live, this shit actually happens to me some days), the 'flat' average will be lower than the 'normalized' average, but the 'flat' average is actually accurate, even if the 'normalized' average is more indicative of the level of intensity. If the purpose of the interval you're doing is to calculate your training zone ranges, then you have to use the 'flat' average, not the statistically weighted 'normalized' average. Now, you might be thinking, what good is this 'normalized' average, anyway? You can compare it to the 'flat' average and the 'average, pedaling'; the closer these two or three values are to each other, the more consistent your overall effort was during the interval you're looking at. Ideally the 'flat', 'normalized', and 'pedaling' (if you have that) should all be within a few watts of each other. If the 'flat' average is dramatically lower than the 'normalized', then you weren't very consistent in staying in-zone for the interval. For a long (several hours) ride, especially when you have no choice but to stop for traffic signals and what-not, the 'normalized' average then becomes a much more accurate indicator of what your intensity level was for the entire ride, whereas the 'flat' average will be much lower because of where you had no choice but to coast and stop. Long winded I know but I hope this helps.

>>1015451
If the purpose of your hour-long interval is to calculate your training zones, then you should be on a flat course, not a hilly one anyway, or even a rolling course, because you want your effort to be steady and consistent.

>>1015436
He didn't say what his level of experience is, for all we know he's training for his first Cat-5 race in 2017. A new guy is going to lose fitness faster than an experienced guy, especially if he takes an entire week completely off the bike.

>>1015347
>>1015364
Think il get a cateye smart computer, anyone use them? it says it is compatible with iphone 5 and on with ios 8 but i have a 4s with ios 9, think il have any problems with it?

>>1015576
I love my Cateye Stealth Evo+.

>>1015581
how do you upload your ride to some bike data after? do you plug it in manually?

>>1015576
If you're going to use it for training, I'd get something that supports laps/intervals, since you're going to be doing interval training of one kind or another, and being able to review those later is important.

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trainer road?????

>>1015585
It comes with a cord. Plug it into the computer, download via desktop app, upload to Strava/TP or .fit file

>>1015576
I had the Cateye Stealth 50 which is basically the last version of the Stealth evo+.
Maybe I had a defective one but the battery was ridiculously bad on mine, where it would die out randomly <2h after a full charge.

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finally got some KOMs

Also, I held a 257 Watt NP value for almost 4.5 hours. Is my 285 FTP estimate too high or too low, or is it where it should roughly be? I ask because there is not one stretch of road around me that fits the necessary criteria for even a 20-minute FTP test

>>1015770
How much do you weigh?

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>>1015796
5'9" 58.2 kg, this is me

>>1015803
I see we are going with the October spooky theme already, nice skeleton costume. Fix your handlebar setup, laws state that you must slam your stem and have the tops parallel to the ground.

>>1015803
what happened to your head bro did you remove it because gramz or aero

>>1015822
there is no need to show my face on a Tibetian spice exchange forum to be quite honest

>>1015821
>muh traditions
Sagan and Chaves run lowered hoods on bent bars and they get along just fine

cx is sooooooooooooooooooooooo fun

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>>1015803
>this is me

>>1016245
wish i could afford another baiku... maybe i should have gotten a caadx instead of a roadbike.

>>1016275
While getting a dedicated road bike is awesome, a lot of people get a CX and just use it as both. Some people hate it but some people love it

>>1016263
>posting the edit

Is it absolutely necessary to get a power meter to train effectively? I judt wanna be top in strava tbqh and maybe race later on in my life, can i just work off HR zones? I mean thats how everyone trained some 5-10 years ago.

>>1016676
Of course you don't need one, you just need to realise and accept the limits of HRM. It's not the end of the world.

>>1016676
>I judt wanna be top in strava
Please kill yourself, mister Cat-6.

>>1016676
the only people i know who "want to be top in strava" are 40 years old

>>1016957
Would you be shocked if there were 40 year olds on 4chan?

Is it a problem if I notice one side of my tires is thinning on tread but not the other?

>>1016995
So you're either a track racer, or you're a NASCAR driver and posted on the wrong board by mistake?

I think you need the /bqg/ thread, not this one.

>>1016995
Stop riding in circles

>>1016995
Yes, stop noticing it.

>>1016995
Generally it should be the outer side, yeah.

>>1015770
240 for nearl 5 hours nice senpai. 285 could be too low or too high. You can't know from a 5 hour test jonestly. I got 350 watts in me for a 20 easily but def couldn't crack 240 for 5 hours in training right now. Maybe if it was a race.

>>1017147
how much do you weigh?

360 for 20 here... 69 kg. fuggin hurt tho, it was in a race... whole race NP of 334 which was kool

>>1017165
this is me (again)
>>1015803

Since winter is coming around, what should i look for in indoor trainers? rollers or trainers? are those resistance controllers that you can mount on your bar necessary?

>>1018127
Most rollers don't have any sort of resistance unit so you're just spinning, so they're not very good for training. Also it's much more difficult to use rollers than a stationary trainer. If you're going to get a stationary trainer get a fluid trainer. Adjustable resistance really isn't necessary unless you ride track and therefore have no choice in gearing, otherwise you just shift gears to get to the intensity level you need.

Check Craigslist for used trainers. Lots of people buy them, use them a few times, decide they hate them, and sell them for relatively cheap.

>>1018152
why fluid? isnt there 3 types?

>>1018152
Rollers have tire resistance, they just don't have enough resistance to do sprint like high efforts. You only have the option of low/medlow

>>1018163
Fluid trainer is a meme and I hate them.

The best are electric direct drive trainers. They can simulate fluid power curves and do all sorts of things and don't wear out your tires.

Fluid trainers are just like normal trainers, but noisier, and they their resistance is not linear, so people like them for practicing sprint work and intervals. That's the only thing they're good at.

If you're doing steady state work, magnetic is better, as the resistance curve is linear and smoother. It doesn't feel realistic, no, but neither does fluid feel that realistic, just more realistic. If you're going to be watching TV while just trying to do tempo and not doing intervals, then magnetic is better. And you can still do intervals on magnetic, it just doesn't feel like trying to pop a sprint and the shift pattern feels different. So it's still fine if you're just doing high-low-high-low and not practicing acceleration.

By far the biggest thing in getting a good trainer is the heaviest flywheel you can get. When riding a bike you have your momentum to help get you over top dead center. On a trainer, it's only the momentum of your wheel and flywheel, which is much less. Raising resistance will feel like climbing and you will notice drag at top dead center, unlike riding on the flats.

This is annoying and why I never use a trainer.

Actually, if I were to do it over again, I'd get a spin bike. Doesn't put any wear on your bike. Huge ass flywheel. Fixed gear makes you not try to coast when you try to focus on the TV.

>>1017817
You're telling me you can do 6 w/kg for 20 min which would mean your ftp is 5.71... how are you not a pro then? tbqh, I don't believe you

>>1018165
>electric direct drive trainers
Yeah sure thing, point him at trainers that cost as much as an entire bike. Most people don't have $1200 or more for a trainer, and most people aren't so OCD about trainers either.

>Fluid trainer is a meme
Yeah well like I said, most people don't have $1200 or more for a trainer so $100 for a used trainer on Craigslist is good bang for the buck.

If you want realism, then man up and ride outside. Unless it's below zero and it's a blizzard outside you just bundle up and do it. Nobody should be spending hours and hours at a time on a trainer anyway.

>>1018165
>coast when you try to focus on the TV
This is the biggest fucker and it's why I'm considering getting a fancypants smart trainer and joining zwift. A spin bike would be nice if I had the room.

Then again it would probably just be better and cheaper to spend the winter months keeping on top of core and hitting the treadmill and squat rack.

>>1018193
And mag trainers are cheaper than fluid trainers. The point was fluid trainers are neither the best nor do they offer significant advantages over mag trainers. There was a time they were state of the art and offered the most realism to be found in a trainer for people that couldn't stand mag trainers. That time is past. And mag trainers have some advantages including being cheaper.

>>1018196
It's not as good, but if you don't have you can buy a bluetooth HRM for $15 or so and download a HRM app like SportsTracker which you can set to have an alarm if you leave a heart rate zone. But even then you find yourself coasting some.

I don't bike indoors because of winter, the weather is usually good enough to ride, so I don't come from the perspective of ride simulation. I ride indoors when I don't want to kit up and go out and want to catch up on some TV.

>>1018170
lol where are you getting this 6 w/kg value for 20 minutes? Directly because of my gauntness I have awful sprinting prowess, I am best suited for medium to long range rides (40-100 miles)

>>1018261
>350 watts
>58.2 kg
That's 6 w/kg.

>>1018198
(Trainers) That's all a matter of opinion.

>>1018298
Again, where are you getting this 350W from? That would be unbelievable and absolutely great, but my FTP is at the very most 285-290 W

>>1017147
>>1018494
This. You said this was you, did you not?

If you could do 350 for 20, that'd be like an ftp of 5.7 for an hour which is pro level. That's what i'm talking about.

>>1015213
>>1015213
>>1015213
>>>/sp/ you fucks

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another chan has their own bike board, arent you all jealous

>>1018536
spee is for watching pro sports, not doing amateur ones
>>1018560
>8ch
not at all desu

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>>1018536

>>1018560
Their whole site is slower than this board.

>>1016263
Post the part about the miscarriage.

>>1016676
Took me a year before I got my power meter. I always believed it to be a great pacing tool and also a way to get consistent baselines for training and to see improvement. Heart rate is fine, but to be honest I don't think anyone will think you're serious unless you get a power meter. It's an expensive investment, so make sure you have the bike/groupset you plan to stick with for a few years.

>>1018495
this guy >>1017147 was replying to me, instead of being from me, who presumably is taller and weighs more so it brings that ratio down a fair bit

>>1018609
Ok. My bad. But you replied to me when I was asking the presumably heavier guy how much he weighed so it confused me

>>1018589
Their servers can't be as slow as 4chans. that's simply not possible.

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>>1018603

You guys are going to call me stupid but how can i tell if im a good natural sprinter/climber/time trialer? Im pessimistic and am convinced i have shit genetics, i wasnt athletic at all growing up. ex-fatty

>>1018831
do some races and find out what you don't suck at.

probably the best thing to do is to figure if one discipline is more fun than the rest to you. I would just ride whatever is fun and not give a shit about what kind of riding I am doing.

>>1018831
Find something you like and focus on that. If you aren't planning on becoming a pro what your genetics are ideal to doesn't matter as much as your training. And you'll find it much easier to do the training if it's something you enjoy.

>>1018831
>be gifted with climbing legs

Thank god

>>1018831
Genetics isn't the end-all-be-all, if it was then there would be damned few pro racers, and some simple lab tests would tell whether or not you were going to make it in the sport.

The only way you can tell if you're going to be any good at this is to train for it, and over the course of a few years you'll see how you're going to do. Time trialing and climbing are trainable, and you'll spend lots of time doing Tempo and Threshold work to build the muscular endurance necessary to do well at those. Sprinting is largely dependent on the number of Type-II muscle fibers you were born with, but again that genetic trait is not the end-all-be-all of sprinting, either, because you'll do work both in the gym and on the bike to make what Type-II fibers you have stronger, and working on you anaerobic endurance and lactate tolerance will help with that too. Mental toughness is something you'll have to focus on, otherwise when the going gets tough, you'll quit; so lose the negative attitude or just don't bother, because otherwise you'll just sabotage yourself.

Above all else you have to be patient and keep looking at the big picture. This is not something that you're good at starting with Year 1, it takes years and years of consistent training to reach your full potential, you'll make mistakes along the way and suffer setbacks, and deal with the disappointments of losing races or just not doing as well as you thought you were going to do. Also one of the great truths of bike racing, is that the athleticism is actually the easy part; learning how to race effectively and successfully is the hard part, and takes the most time to learn because you can only learn to race by *racing*. Enjoy the process.

Oh and by the way: I'm also an ex-fat guy, and everyone told me I wouldn't be able to do this at all and shouldn't try. I out-climb and out-distance some of those guys now, because I NEVER quit.

>>1018836
I'd like to point out here for the guy we're all talking to and anyone else who might be reading this who is interested in racing: Don't use a couple Cat-5 road races you do, with no training whatsoever, as an indicator of whether or not you should actually train for racing. Even a first-year road racer at an early-bird road race held in February has at least 3 months of Base training under his belt, and that's more than your average recreational rider ever does intentionally.

>>1019263
just to add to this, look at the height differences in pro cyclists. It ranges from jockeys that are 5"4 all the way up to Stijn Vandenbergh @ 6"6. If it were all genetics, wouldn't you think that all the pro cyclists would hover around a very small range in height and build type?

>>1019263
But how does athleticism relate to cycling since athleticism = how explosive you are and cant be really trained and is determined by genetics, should i go test my vertical? If i get a bad score should i kill myself?

I still want to be fit and be a proficient cyclist, how much would weight training 3 times a week non consecutive days of heavy barbell compounds and accessory lifts in the hypertrophy range affect training on the bike? would i over train eventually? should i just chug a shit ton of protons?

>>1019305
I know a cyclist who is absolutely jacked in his upper body and he can still climb well. Granted idk the specifics of how he does it, but he definitely does not have a cycling build. It's possible, but it might take a lot of work and you might have to accept you'll not be the greatest cyclist

>>1019302
17 inch vertical.
brb going to kill myself.

>>1019302
>athleticism = how explosive you are and cant be really trained
The hell it can't. How 'explosive' you are is, if I'm not mistaken, largely a function of your central nervous sytem (i.e. reflexes and muscle memory), and also a function of the strength of your Type-II muscle fibers which, as previously stated, the *number* of which is determined by genetics, but the *strength* of which can be *trained*; that's what spending time in the gym in the off-season is for, and that's what some speed-skills training and Force training is for; you do things like Jumps, where you explode up out of the saddle and pedal at a high cadence (>100rpm) for about 12 revolutions of the cranks, as hard as you possibly can, and later on in Power training sessions, sets of full-on sprints.

I think you need to get yourself a copy of the Cyclists Training Bible and start reading. Here's a link to some Russian site that has a .pdf copy of an older edition of it: http://www.lronman.ru/docs/CyclistBible3.pdf

>>1019305
>>1019335
Big upper body doesn't make the bike go faster. That being said, sure, you can still climb well so long as you don't skip leg day, and so long as you don't neglect adequate training on the bike. But if you're going to compete then the excess body weight from more upper-body muscle will slow you down on climbs, because physics is physics and you can't really get away from that. Of course if you're not going to compete then it really doesn't matter that much, if you're still training on the bike regularly you'll likely still outpace your riding buddies, unless they race and keep their bodyweight down by not building unnecessary upper body mass.

>>1019492
I already bought the 4th edition and am only 120 pages in. since we are on the topic it says to make a goal, since this is my first year of being a full on roadie and having done no races previously, what goal should i set? 1:20 min 40k TT?

>>1019349
In the latest edition of the Cyclists Training Bible, Friel added something new in the Strength section, something he calls 'Complex Training', where you do sets of box jumps, followed immediately by a heavy set of leg press or squats, followed immediately by successive sprints on your bike (presumably, with it on a trainer). Plyometrics, basically. I can't say whether it works or not because it's kind of hard to arrange for all that in the same place at the same time; I can go to a gym where they've got an adjustable platform that I can use for the box jumps, and of course I can do the heavy set of squats, but they won't let me bring my bike and trainer and set it up in the gym, their insurance won't allow me to do that. So I'd have to set it up in the back of my pickup or something, and chain everything down so nobody just walks away with my bike and trainer. Kind of a pain in the ass unless you have a home gym or go to a gym that's more flexible.

>>1019496
>goals
It's really up to you. Just pick something that's going to be a challenge, but not so challenging that you're not going to be able to accomplish it.

I will say this: If you're going to be a new Cat-5 next year, I'd think about goals more centered around learning the skill-set for road racing, and and less centered around winning races. Your average Cat-5 is so sketchy and squirrelly in any race they're in, sometimes literally white-knuckling the handlebars the entire race, so tense that the tiniest little change in the flow of the race makes them slam on the brakes and/or suddenly jump their line and swerve all over the place, often causing crashes. Goals like 'become proficient in navigating around the peloton' or 'become proficient with a continuously rotating paceline' and 'learning to hold your line and change it smoothly' I think are worth some consideration, since actual race-smarts are harder to come by than the athleticism, and can often lead to you winning against someone who is a stronger rider.

>>1019501
Forgot to explain myself on one point: The reason, as a Cat-5, that you shouldn't be too concerned yet about winning races? They're meaningless wins. There's no prize money or upgrade points for Cat-5 races, you automatically upgrade to Cat-4 once you've completed 10 mass-start races (i.e., road races, crits, or circuit races, not TT's). They've structured it that way so you're encouraged to learn to *race safely*, not focus only on winning. This is not to say that if you have an opportunity to win you should pass it up, but don't kill yourself (or anyone else in the race) just for an essentially meaningless win.

>>1019501
the book says the opposite of what you just said.... it says racing outcome orientated goals and not objectives, you just listed objectives, check the bottom of page 121 on the 4th edition...

>>1019503
wait so you can do 10 races, come in last each time and upgrade to cat 4?

>>1019510
Yes, that's what the rules say.

Knowing the rules of racing is part of your training. You should read through the rulebook too.
https://www.usacycling.org/usa-cycling-rule-book.htm

>>1019506
Yeah, well, I'm telling you what it's like out in the real world of amateur bike racing from the perspective of someone who's been doing it for years. I've seen more guys that don't seem to be able to handle themselves riding in a pack than I ever wanted to, even past the Cat-5 days, and been victims of their poor bike-handling and racing skills more times than I care to think about. Don't be one of those guys that other racers are afraid to be riding near. The Cyclists Training Bible is a good resource for the athleticism part of bike racing, but it doesn't address *how to race* effectively or safely, not really. You can't win a race if you can't get to the finish line, and you can't get to the finish line if you cause a crash partway through. You also aren't going to get an opportunity to try to be first across the line if your racing skills are poor and you're at the back of the pack all the time because of them. Your first year training to race, and racing, is the time you should be acquiring the good habits and skills that make a great racer.

>>1015257
what is this training bible of which you speak?

>>1019578
http://www.lronman.ru/docs/CyclistBible3.pdf

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What do you guys eat on rides?

Bike food is so god damn expensive I've started to use these buddies, pic rel

I can get the generic safeway kind for like 30 for $5 CAD. They're 100 calories each. It's been working well so far.

>>1019814
What is that? Food for ants?

>>1019833
It appears to be a box of museli (oat) bars. Good shit.

>>1019814
I usually eat something similar.. Bananas are good too if you have space to carry them. Of course here in Spain you can just stop at a café in any town and get some real food while sitting outside with your bike right next to you..

>>1019814
Make your own muesli bars, it's piss easy

>>1019814
During races gels. Just because they're so much easier to deal with when riding hard. On normal training rides muesli bars, usually home made.

Also a bananas are great.

>>1019834
>>1019846
>>1019860
Never heard of them referred to as muesli bars. Only ever heard granola.

I make my own rice cakes sometimes which are really tasty and caloric, but alas I can be lazy. I can spare the $5.

Bananas are great as well.

>>1019880
>spot the american

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Who /longrides/ here? My taint has dissolved

>>1015231
not hungover enough then lad, when im hungover I cant do anything other than farting and masturbating.

>>1019906
why do you always ride at that shitty cadence? It angers me.

Do you guys ride when it's raining? I don't mean light rain, I mean like taking a shower rain fall

>>1019886
Canadian lmao

>>1019928
Yeah I have. Usually on less busy roads tho, with lights. It's fun when you finally get soaked. The part that sucks is bike part maintenance that may follow

>>1019931
While, I really want to ride today, but it's pouring like a man holding his piss for four hours. I'll wait until it gets cleared, hopefully before the sun sets.

>>1019924
73-77 rpm is the optimal cadence for endurance training and improving stamina for rides exceeding 75 miles, did you not know this?

>>1019906
sweet average

>>1018494
You did almost 240 non normalized watts for 4 hours. You should be able to do at least 330 watts for 20 minutes.

If you really did 240w for 4 hours at 128lbs you could easily be a domestic pro. I know at least one that is around your weight, probably doesn't put out that much power over 4 hours in a race and he regularly podiums.

>>1019972
that is some good insight, thanks. Because I live in the middle of Atlanta, finding an equitable stretch of uninterrupted climbing (between 2-5% gradient) road would have me driving an exorbitant distance to conduct a proper FTP test, so I rely on input from others (like in these threads). Also, my 5-minute max is only 325W, and my 20-minute max is maybe 275

>>1019981
I'm 125 and I've done 316w for 6:12.

I cannot come close to 240w for 4 hours.

Somethings screwed up with your numbers, you should be able to do a lot more. It makes no sense that you can only do 275 for 20 minutes but 240 for 4 hours.

>>1019987
I've never been good at sprinting or high-power outputs for intervals at or less than 10 minutes; my forte has always been endurance training, which results in a less steep power curve as I have been training for endurance for the past few years. Additionally, I've never formally conducted a 5-minute or 20-minute power test: my best results are inadvertent and from longer rides wherein data is extracted, as opposed to being dedicated tests for the sole purpose of an individual test; I suspect therefore that these outputs would be higher as you say, but not by much

Been getting into riding a little more. Got myself a heart rate monitor. Should I go out and find out my max heart rate straight up even though i'm quite unfit? Or some other test?

Or just ride sensibly and improve my fitness a little more? Just using a calculated max HR to stay roughly in the right zones?

I'm hoping to do sometime in the future when it's remotely possible i'll be able to keep up.

Right now my training is super simple, and probably quite dumb and wrong. I'll choose between three 'rides'. A fairly slow easy ride, an easy ride with some intervals, and a ride where I push myself quite hard. On top of that I have a short commute to work daily.

Anything glaringly wrong with this setup for a super beginner?

>>1019998
>Just using a calculated max HR to stay roughly in the right zones?
Yes, Idk why a beginner would worry so much about it unless they had heart problems and don't want to go into the red.
Just build up your miles and don't worry so much in the beginning.

>>1019814
I usually don't eat anything unless it's the long ride of the week and I decide to stop somewhere for a snack (in which case it's usually protein in some form), otherwise I've got to carry water anyway, so I stick to what I mix into my bottles.

>>1019924
He doesn't; Strava counts zeroes when it averages things like cadence, so it looks lower than it actually is.

>>1019934
You're kidding around, but 70-80rpm is the cadence you'd ride at to work on muscular endurance. Try that on your 120-minute Tempo rides, shit is SO cash. xD

>>1019998
Google "CTS field test". It's 2 8-minute long intervals where you go as hard as you think you can sustain for 8 minutes, then you calculate your training zones from the average heart rate (and power, but you don't have a power meter).

>>1020004
I'm not terribly worried. I just like to figure things out reasonably well, and also am trying to balance cycling and a physically intensive job. So making sure I'm not riding too hard too often will probably be beneficial.

>>1020009
Cheers dude. I'll look into it.

>>1020014
Yeah, just go all out to find it. It usually takes at least 2 minutes going as hard as possible to reach your max HR.

As you get fitter max HR decreases by a substantial amount. When I haven't been riding a lot my max HR is 202, when I'm in pretty good shape from riding a lot my max is like 192.

Those HR zone charts are usually way wrong, if my max HR is like 192 right now, those have me at like 130bpm for endurance, more accurate measurements have my endurance HR at like 150-160bpm.

HR is a shitty metric over all, at least to base training off of, its ok for tracking fitness trends. I never use mine anymore. Go by power or feel now.

>>1020025
I'll look into a power meter down the line. It's totally not worth it for me, but I'm a sucker for new toys and new information gives me a stiffy. Should see my training logs for weight lifting. Over kill, but awesome.

Any suggestions for an android app that'll do GPS, has programmable intervals, and that could let me know if i'm going outside of a prescribed HR zone ( or speed, or anything really)?

Spent $4k in the last month, so I'm tapped out and can't buy a decent cyclecomputer for awhile yet.

>>1020025
>Yeah, just go all out to find it. It usually takes at least 2 minutes going as hard as possible to reach your max HR.
You don't want to use the maximum, you want to use the average, and sustainable HR for 2 minutes isn't aerobic, it's anaerobic. That's why the CTS Field Test protocol has you do 8 minute intervals and takes the average. Otherwise your training zones would be way too high and you'd wonder why you can't manage to train the way you think you should be able to train.

Power really is more accurate for a number of reasons compared to HR, and training is more productive when you use a power meter, but if HR is all you've got, it's better than just guessing, especially if you're a new guy and don't know yourself yet, even if HR does lag behind effort enough that you'd wander around the intensity level you're supposed to be at until your HR settles down.

>>1020032
Keep checking Craigslist for someone selling a used PowerTap wheel. I got a used one for $150 to use as a spare.

>>1020035
Shit, that'd be nice. Prices in Aus tend to be pretty high for second hand gear.

Another question. I live in the flattest place on earth (well, the lowest devaton in elevaton). Would a trainer and something like Zwift give me a reasonably realistic way to train for climbs?

Might forgo a power meter and get a decent trainer. It's coming up to summer soon enough and i don't really like riding in 40C weather which is quite common here. It was bad enough working a labor job last year when it hit 46C by 11pm. So the trainer would be useful for more than just simulating climbs

>>1020038
I'd skip the trainer. Not only is it boring and de-motivating, it's not realistic. Practicing your bike-handling skills constantly, especially if you're going to road race, is never a bad thing. Sitting on a trainer is like being a hamster on a wheel, you're not going anywhere, you're just turning pedals.

If you want to simulate hills on flat terrain, just shift to a harder gear. That, and plan trips out to where there's hills to climb. Nothing wrong with repeating the same hill several times, either.

>>1020043
NEarest hills are some 200km away. Not really possible to travel that far.

Bike handling is an issue. Coming from motorbike riding to pushbikes is a little more difficult than i thought. Similar enough that my reactions are the same, but they really shouldnt be.

Surely a turbo would be more realistic than simply turning a bigger gear. Wouldnt the constant deceleration from a gradient be more similar to increased resistance on a turbo than turning a big gear and the resistance from wind alone?

>>1020046
I'm not kidding about how de-motivating riding on a trainer is, especially at Tempo and above.

Really the point of climbing hills, is that when you do in a race setting, you're going to have to work at your maximum sustainable intensity (Theshold, and up to your VO2max) on long climbs, without any relief because you really can't stop pedaling. Depending on the grade you're climbing your cadence may drop into the 70's, or even the 60's. This in part is what muscular endurance work is for, so you have what it takes athletically to handle the long climbs without getting dropped. Muscular endurance is also what's needed if you're time trialing, where you're going to be at Threshold for the duration. Therefore if there are no hills around just go up a gear or two for a while. Besides which, if you really can't get yourself to where there's real hills to climb, then you're not likely to be involved in any races that aren't flat anyway so what does it matter?

Get a trainer if you want but in my opinion they're only good as a last resort when the weather is just too bad to be out in, or for warming up at race venues where there's no place you can ride to do it (like a downtown crit).

P2M offering their new NG spider for 300 € if you buy any type S road model now.

I'd link it but my phone won't let ne for some reason.

I have a cyclocross race tomorrow. My first time on a cross bike is today. :^)

>>1020270
Enjoy your scraped shins

>>1019906 #
>3.84 W/kg fot 7 hours

Either you are bullshitting your weight or you're a damned pro, I'm guessing the former

Do most of you guys religiously train off the training bible or what? some of you guys got pretty gud stats. or just random leisure type rides?

What information should I have before working out a training regime? My goal is to do a TT in around 5-6 months time (when it starts to cooldown in early autumn).

Right now I know my max heart rate. Should I find out my lactate threshold and how long I can sustain it for?

Currently my training is pretty simple and probably ineffective. Todays ride was 10 min warmup, then 5 mins upper end of z4 followed by 5 mins rest (upper zone 2), for 20 minutes total.

Just a quick little ride as I've got a pretty full on day today. Mostly I enjoy either easy workouts, like todays or just a recovery ride, or something brutal. The in betweeners I find to be harder to psyche myself up for.

>>1020307
I have no other plan other than to ride at Intensity Factor values of between 0.85 to 0.95 for 20-30 mile /1.5-2 hour mile rides, and between 0.80 to 0.85 IF for all rides exceeding 30+ miles, every two days.

I'm not even sure if this is a prudent "plan", but the constraints of my very time-consuming engineering curriculum would cause another scheduled responsibility (like a structured training plan) and therein induce even more anxiety and stress than I could handle.

>>1020307
>>1020312
All I want to say is this: If you don't have any sort of coherent, rational plan, then you don't get to complain about doing shitty on race day.

>>1020308
Download this: >>1019618

Get this: >>1020009

>>1020307
I have a coach
>>1020308
20 minute rides will not cut it for any sort of intensity I'm afraid

>>1020318
>20 minute rides will not cut it for any sort of intensity I'm afraid
Pretty much this. I'm not even done warming up for the main set of a training ride after 20 minutes.

>>1020308
How many hours per week maximum, every week of the year, can you commit to for training?

>>1020370
I was unclear. It was 20 minutes of intervals, with 10 minute warm up, with a 10 minute cool down. z2 for rest and warm up/down, z4 for intervals. Would of been longer but I've had a busy day. Sometimes you've just gotta cut things short.

An hour per day for weekdays, longer on weekends. It'll be hard once summer hits due to the heat, but i'll work around that.

I'll look into finding out my lthr and then try and test out max average heart rate i can sustain for small periods - mostly just to measure how training is going month to month. Maybe 5, 10 and 20 minute.

Going to look into getting a power meter, but I'm thinking due to the heat of summer here, a turbo trainer with power meter might be a smarter purchase for the moment. If I do decide to get a turbo, then there's little reason why I can't increase training from 1 hour blocks to much higher as I'll be able to train after work rather than before.

Hey guys.
I bought recently a raodbike to get more miles and more basic-endurance. I'm focussing on 30-40km MTB-races with a duration of 1-2 hours. Best was 10 min behind a former national champion.Thing is, I overtake quite well on short and steep climbs , but on longer ones or reaching the end I am not that good. Let's say: I'm really bad. Is my target right, to build up more aerobic endurance in the winter-season (which I haven't done before), to have a longer breath (also facing the end of the season)? This year I've done about 1500km, filled with lots of short anaerobic training and intervalls.

>>1020448
Are you fuelling on those races?
Sounds like you need to do sweet-spot/threshold intervals, in any case.

>>1020379
Max HR means jack shit for TT, LTHR is what is important. Do the test right, warm up for 10-20 minutes, ride at a high steady pace for 30 minutes, as fast and as steady as you can, and take your average heart rate from the last 20 minutes of this effort, this is your LTHR

>>1020033
Max HR is "anaerobic"...well kind of, its not really cut and dry like those charts say

Top end of aerobic HR is 70-80% of max HR


The way I get max HR is to go up a climb thats about 10 minutes long as hard as possible , by the last two minutes I'm maxed out, usually around 192-193 bpm when fit, it takes less time to reach max HR when not fit, like 2-4 minutes

but anyway, HR is a shit metric to base any training off of, its really only good for tracking long term trends in fitness over months

>>1020053
htfu pussy

>>1020307
training bible is good to get ideas, I doubt anyone actually follows it hardcore.

most effective training is polarized training, which is doing intervals that are harder than race intensity (vo2max intervals), mixed with high volume of low intensity.

Training bible is shyper focused that actual pros will follow, most amatuers will just do a couple interval sessions a week mixed with long, fun rides.

>>1020270
I'm a fucking loser. I should give my bike to goodwill and kill myself.

>>1020540
what place did you come in anon? surely you didnt do that bad.

btw if you do decide to kys can i have your baikuu, i promise to take good care of her.

>>1020542
22/36 cat 5
I didn't even know the basics. My first time dismounting in the cross fashion was during the race itself.

>>1020544
Wait how stupid are you? you competed in an event you didnt train in at all, isnt cyclocross like 1/3rd based on bike handling skills? you know what just gimme ur baikuu, are you that guy with a caadX?

>>1020548
I had no intention to ever do cyclocross. The bike, shoes, cleats, and pedals were all handed to me for free. Am I stupid for taking an opportunity like that?

>>1020550
FREE NIGGA? are you on a sponsered team? it was a stupid decission but then again you got, what maybe 5000$ worth of gear for free, while im just here sucking dicks at 5 dollars a succ slowly raising enough to buy a good bike.

>>1020552
Nonono, not that good. I just got to use all the shit for free. I get to keep the shoes, though

>>1020509
>htfu pussy
Ah, I see; I'm a pussy because I won't sit inside a nice comfy house, in front of a TV, turning pedals. Yeah, I feel like *such* a pussy, riding out in the dark, in the cold, and in the rain, on actual roads, all Winter and early Spring-long. I'm not a Big Tough Professional rider like you, sitting *inside* on a trainer. LOL yeah I really need to HTFU.

>>1020553
>get to keep the shoes
completely worth it then if they have decent cleats

>>1020509
>HR is a shit metric to base any training off of
If that's all someone has, because that's the best they can afford to have, then it's better than nothing, and apparently I need to remind you that for a long time heart rate monitoring while on the bike was state-of-the-art, and it was a hell of a lot better than the way they trained in, say, 1903 for TdF. Yes, using a power meter is better than using heart rate, but to say heart rate is 'useless' is a gross exaggeration.

>>1020509
>most effective training is <insert someone's personal preference/belief here>

There is no 'one best way to train' and lots of people use CTB almost exclusively and they do very well on race day.

>>1020307
There is no 'one best way' or 'one right way' to train, regardless of what anyone will try to tell you.

That being said:
Friels' Cyclists Training Bible is an excellent starting point for training for racing bikes. Personally I think it's important for someone new to the sport, especially if they've never trained in a structured way for any sort of sport, to follow a plan that has proven results for so many people. After you've been doing that for a few years and have gotten a feel for how training works, then you can think about throwing other ideas into the mix. Also, think about it: Who are you think you should be listening to, someone who has been coaching professional bike racers for decades and is a published author with the 4th edition of his training manual on the shelves, or random anonymous guys on a Japanese image board?

>>1020509
>most amatuers
I've raced with these 'most amateurs' you speak of. The vast majority of them treat the sport like it's "Fantasy Cycling Camp"; they don't take it very seriously, and it shows in the way they race. They're sub-par where it counts, and most of them seem to lack any real guts when the going gets tough. They seem to be content to finish with the pack.

>>1020540
>I didn't win my very first race, so I'm going to give up and forget all about it!

Please. Don't be that guy, OK?

This is where 'mental toughness' training starts. You're going to lose lots and lots of races. Ironically, coming in 2nd will hurt more than coming in DFL. Losing is the real crucible in which you are forged into a racer; you have to have the ability to accept that losing is part of the game much of the time. If you can't do that then you don't belong in this sport.

>>1020544
True story: My first race (7 years ago) as a Cat-5 was a crit, in February, on a very short course with a tight chicane on the backside. I showed up later than I should have and had only 10 minutes to warm up. I don't believe I was even all the way through Base weeks yet. After three laps I was so far off the back that it was pointless. I bailed out on the backside of the course, utterly ashamed.

Of course I didn't quit. I learned from the experience.

>>1020572
>>1020574
I won't quit. I'm suffering the emotional backlash of what I consider underperforming. I don't think I'll mess with cyclocross again until I have my own bike. I have 5 months until criteriums. I'll make the most of my time.

Who here uses zwift, thinking about getting a fluid trainer used for 100$ when winter comes, whoever tells me to htfu and ride in winter, im in canada so fack off.

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>>1020687
trainer road is miles better but zwift is funner

my pc is old and cant handle zwift :(

>>1020457
Ahh, I see. Thank you for your advice. I haven't done any FTP-Test before. Stated by Friel, I took today my first ever TT, with 5 km duration. My average BPM were 186, (so my FTp would be around ~178, right?) my average Poweroutput ~430W. So, concering SST, is targeting Zone 3 righty?

>>1020687
I love Zwift, used it all winter last year.
It's fun and engaging. Lots of races and rides you can do.
I used the Cycleops Fluid2 with it until I got my Bkool Smart Trainer...which is badass.

Even though i have a shitty vertical should i just go ahead and train to become a sprinter? I dont want to be skelly, can i go the gorilla mode?

>>1015213
>Bike Training
>Riding regular weekday route
>See someone else on route , looks somewhat tired
>Think "I'll greet him"
>Quickly getting closer
>Start to pass him
>Yell 'hello' in english
>He rips his head around, looks startled
>I'm startled
>Sprint away as fast as i can

I probably seemed like a bellend to him

>>1020914
Where do you live

>>1020270
I had my first CX Race this weekend...I had a little bit more time on the bike before the race than you did. About 2 weeks.
Was a lot of fun, and as hard as I expected it to be. I came in 19th out of 37 finishers in the CAT5 race.
Got a bad start, and sat about 25th around the first corner (according to the photos) - managed to move up a few places each lap, and never got passed or lost a place once I overtook someone.
Can't wait to do it again this weekend!

>>1020457
EVERYONE who races for real (not just with your buddies) needs to do Threshold work. It's a basic athletic requirement for racing.

>>1020937
Were you number 531? I think we were in the same race.

>>1020933
Aversa Province, Italy

>>1020564
HR might be somewhat useful on base rides, but you really don't need HR even for that

Because of HR lag, it is absolutely useless on VO2max intervals.

It also fucks up your longer threshold intervals by having you go easier than you could go.

HR per intensity varies wildly from day to day from things like caffeine intake, hydration, food, sleep, rest, its not accurate at all for basing hard efforts off of and probably detrimental.

For someone without a meter:

VO2max intervals: go up a short hill as hard as you can. 4-5 times.
For 20 minute intervals just find a good stretch of road and go hard and learn to pace.

>>1020562
you don't actually do that though

trainers are excellent tools and 100% quality time, 1 hour on a trainer is worth at least 1.5 hours training on the road.

>>1020566
look at any pro training regimen throughout the year in cycling, XC, marathon runners

training basically boils down to VO2max intervals and lots and lots of low intensity/high volume, of course theres other stuff sprinkled in but the bread and butter is VO2max+long endurance. Threshold is saved for racing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912323/

>>1017817
>>1017147
I'm 75kg about.. my vo2 is my highest by a large amount, can do ~460 for 5 mins and 500 for 3. I think my issue is just I don't have enough base for a high ftp coming in after 2 year hiatus

>>1021131
I'm 69 kg at race weight and my best like 400 or so for 5 and 616 for 1. Couldn't repeat that 1 or 5 min power for any sort of significant reps, I usually do my 1 mins at 500-550 or so. My FTP is about 4.8 so that really frustrates me.

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>I'm just a poorfag from a poor family

What's the cheapest power meter you can get?

>>1021302
Single sided crank from 4iiii or stages, if you're desperate to save money can probably even go for a crank below whatever your bike has.

>>1021077
You sound like someone who reads articles about training but doesn't actually train at all, then tries to post intelligent-sounding comments about training on the internet.

Again: If a heart-rate monitor is all you can afford, then it is better than nothing, ESPECIALLY if you're new to the sport of racing.

We're not 'pro racers' here, and trying to use the argument that 'well, PRO RACERS do such-and-such, so we should do that too instead of this-and-that' doesn't work.

>you're either going ALL OUT (VO2max) or EASY (high volume) and only go at Threshold when you're racing
See, here, again, you sound like you have no idea what you're doing, because that's totally wrong. Tempo during Base, some Threshold work duing late Base, and Threshold rides after Base, are what build you up and give you the real staying power you need for long hard efforts and long hill climbs. But for some reason you don't know that?

Honestly, you're either someone who doesn't do this at all, or (small chance) you're one of those guys who is naturally talented, and can not train in any sane way at all, and still do reasonably well on race day. If it's the latter then the joke's on you because you'd do so much better if you actually trained yourself in a methodical and intelligent way.

Or you're just some garden-variety troll, typical of 4chan, talking out of your ass after scanning a few internet articles, trying to mislead naive guys who actually do train and race. In fact the way your write sounds like that train foamer that objects to this bike-training-and-racing thread even existing on /n/.

Oh and by the way: I *do* ride in the cold and the rain and the dark all Fall and Winter long, because I've got a full-time day job and two days a week isn't enough time on the bike.

>>1021302
If you're in the U.S., check Craigslist for a use PowerTap wheel, or other power meters. You don't see them all the time but you can occasionally find some guy selling one for a couple hundred bucks. Might even get lucky and find someone selling a used Quarq crankset; I've got one of those on my TT bike, and it seems to be a quality product.

Personally I'd stay away from other so-called 'power meters' that use a non-direct method of 'measuring' power generation, though, they're too inaccurate to really be useful for someone who is training to race. The 'Stages' type that attaches to one crank-arm, I hear is OK, but it's only measuring one leg and doubling, not both, so it's not going to be as accurate. A few percent error may not sound like a lot, but if it's a relatively narrow zone like Threshold, then it's easy to go above or below it.

If you're not in the U.S. I don't know what to tell you on used stuff; do they have things like Craigslist in other countries? I've never looked.

>>1021339
You have no clue what you are talking about.

Threshold work is like trying to do 2 things at once, cause adaptations in the strength of the cardiovascular system and muscles, most important of which is the strengthening of the heart and increasing its stroke volume IE the purpose of VO2max efforts, along with increases to aerobic metabolic capability.

The reason why most pros don't do this and why most elite amateurs focus on solely VO2max and endurance is because threshold work doesn't cause enough stress, the kind of stress you get in a VO2max effort. So it's not very good for increasing actual capacity. Threshold training days also aren't long enough in duration to cause enough aerobic stress compared to pure base rides. It also causes enough stress that you need recuperation from it. Its a shitty 'jack of all trades' style of training. It does everything ok, but nothing great. So its much more effective to focus on strengthening your heart in one part of training and strengthening your aerobic capacity in the other.
Everyone loves threshold work because it feels hard but good, it's not the best use of time or anywhere near as effective as doing training that is obviously more effective at the two sides of the coin.

Muscular endurance for long climbs/efforts is amongst the easiest thing to train, I see a lot of pros around me just doing VO2 work at extremely low cadence, kill two birds with one stone.

Training for amateurs is no where near as complicated as the stuff you obviously buy into leads you to believe. This is how they make their money you twit, by making you believe it needs to be super complicated. You obviously don't race because you'd know what kind of things you'd need to focus on anyways to improve your weaknesses. Its really quite brainless stuff. A billion dollar industry is built on gullible twits like you though.

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>>1021343
EVERYONE who races needs to do muscular endurance work at Threshold. EVERYONE. If you're not, you're fucking up. Enjoy falling apart on long climbs, completely melting down on TT's, and totally blowing up trying to hang with a breakaway.

What are you going to say next? That anaerobic endurance is genetic and can't be trained?

I'm not even going to sit here and argue with you, it's stupid to because you're so obviously a troll, so we're going to do this instead:

Post your racing licenses, ALL OF THEM, WITH TIMESTAMP. I know you won't, because the way you talk, you don't race. Wouldn't be surprised if you don't even own a bike, the way you talk.

These are mine. I've been racing for years, and I get a little stronger and a little faster every year training with all these methods you're saying are a 'waste of time' and that allegedly don't work, and I'm not some genetically-gifted athlete who can get away with training stupidly and still race well, either.

Now get out of here and stop trying to sabotage this thread.

>>1021443
Damn son

You right though. Without any significant threshold work say goodbye on the climbs

when did you guys end up joining a biker gang? im still not in one.

>>1020980
Nope. For whatever reason, we had low numbers for Cat5s. I was 173.
I'm a Cat4 roadie and usually have numbers in the 400s or 500s.

>>1021443
7 years and you're only a CAT3?
I know guys who went from 5 to 3 in 2 years. Most of those are 1s and 2s now, and obtained that within like 4 to 5 years tops.

>>1021524
>Most of those are 1s and 2s now, and obtained that within like 4 to 5 years tops.
Sure. If training and racing is your day job, and you've got someone supporting you.

>>1021532
I'm sorry, that was rude of me.

>>1021524
I went 5 to 3 in half a season. granted I am a cat 1 mtb, but that's not that great. Also didn't race a whole lot of road, I bet I could have gotten to cat 2.

>>1021618
Half a season?
So, 10 mandatory races from 5 to 4.
>Category 4 to 3: 20 points; or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top-10 finishes
At the very least, you'd need 20 races in less than 4 months (half a season).

Can't say I really believe you, unless you happen to live somewhere where they have points races every week, or traveled a shitload to get to races.
Huzzah to you, if you're not lying.

>>1021627
No. I got top 3s and won.

>collegiate C, got only top 3s
>the three of us that got top 3s upgraded to B
>Non collegiate
>Did 3/4s RR, got 7th as a 4 with uphill finish
>Won a stage of a big amateur stage race as a 4, 2nd overall (did a TT on a normal road bike lol)
>Used those and mtb cat 1 to get cat 3

Simple enough

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>>1021657
>>1021627
Only international because I live near Canada

Is it right, that your/mine/blahblah training-workout takes effect only ~3-4 weeks later?

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>>1021878
Yes.

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>>1021878
This one illustrates it even better.

>>1021918
Do you have one with approximate times?

big
>gran fondo
coming up in just over a week
Done 160 km this week commuting, but I'm still way less than half the amout of riding I did in october last year for this same ride. Feels bad man.

Got my 2nd ever CX race coming up this Sunday (4/5 Race) and I am predicted to come in 2nd to last so far. Haha.
If I feel up to it, I will do a second race there/ Should be proper worn out.

>>1021958
What do you mean 'approximate times'?

You train in 3 or 4 week blocks; 2 or 3 weeks of work, and 1 week of active recovery. So consider https://i.4cdn.org/n/1477687153574.gif to be that 3 or 4 week block.

What exactly are you trying to figure out?

likely moronic training question here

My riding has consisted of high TSS (200+) rides (40+ miles, one or two per week) mixed with shorter, higher power rides in between (1-3 per week); all rides being at Intensity Factors at or exceeding 0.900. Is this a decent plan to continue with, or should I pursue a structured approach? For what it's worth, I'm training for medium to long distance road races (so: not crits)

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>>1022137
Also: referring to today's data I'm finding that I can hold IF values of 0.900 +/- 0.005 for rides exceeding 60 miles or 3 hours, and that for 3 to 4 hour rides I'm getting readouts of between 4 to 4.15 W/Kg (zero-average, not normalized); does this mean that my FTP is set too low, or is this an expected outcome?

>>1022137
You're gonna plateau. Get some recovery rides in there. Switch it up. If you're riding that hard all the time it'll do you no good for progression.

>>1022147
What is the best source of literature for training with a power meter (if it isn't the Training With Power Bible) ?

>>1022137
>>1022141
What part of the world are you in?
How many years experience racing do you have?

>>1022147
>>1022141
If he's in the Northern Hemisphere and he's doing (or thinks he's doing) long Threshold rides in early Fall, then he's screwing up and will be burned out by the time March gets here.

>>1022137
>>1022141
Everyone benefits from having some sort of structured training plan.

Based on the 'data' you've posted I don't think you're riding for 3 hours averaging Threshold power. I'm guessing that either you haven't re-tested yourself for a long time, and your fitness has progressed to the point where what you think is Threshold power is now Tempo (or more likely the high end of basic Endurance) or your testing method is incorrect and you're not getting correct training Zones in the first place.

Assuming you're in the Southern Hemisphere and it's appropriate for you to be doing high intensity training, there's other things I see missing: where's the Speed Skills work, where's the Power work, where's the Anaerobic work? The way you're training might make sense if all you wanted to do is time trials, but road racing is much more than just being able to go hard for a few hours, you have to be able to successfully sprint at the end (Speed Skills, Power work) and survive surges during the race (Anaerobic intervals, Lactate Tolerance intervals).

Still, unless you're a Cat-1 pro at the top of your game, I don't think you're averaging 90% of your VO2max for 3 hours. Your training zones must be off. What testing method are you using, and how often do you re-test yourself?

>>1022147
If you're the same guy and can afford it I think I want to recommend you go find a cycling coach to work with you and straighten out your training. If you can't afford it get a copy of the Cyclists Trainign Bible and read it cover-to-cover at least once.

>>1022164
Georgia, United States: racing, very little. I am very aware that power doesn't mean shit without apt racing awareness and intuition (knowing when to attack, pace, handling skills, etc), so I take everything with a grain of salt

>>1022165
>If he's in the Northern Hemisphere and he's doing (or thinks he's doing) long Threshold rides in early Fall, then he's screwing up and will be burned out by the time March gets here.

Is this a physiological inevitability? I am completely alien to structured training, so I will probably ask or assert many stupid points in your following responses to me:

>The way you're training might make sense if all you wanted to do is time trials, but road racing is much more than just being able to go hard for a few hours, you have to be able to successfully sprint at the end (Speed Skills, Power work) and survive surges during the race (Anaerobic intervals, Lactate Tolerance intervals).

This is a very good critique. I don't mean at all for my rides to be end-all encompassing rides: a direct consequence of riding solo 9 times out of 10 is that there are no surprise bunch sprints, save for getting out of the saddle occasionally: and many aspects of racing are completely disregarded by consequence of the routes I choose (uninterrupted and long roads, low-traffic (early-hour rides), and so on). My objective is not in training for "everything" so much as it is training "to the best of my ability", in that I presume that high TSS, high volume riding is THE best method for improving my endurance stamina (I reiterate, I am not training for crit racing) that I can, without knowing better, aim for.

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>>1022170
>Still, unless you're a Cat-1 pro at the top of your game, I don't think you're averaging 90% of your VO2max for 3 hours. Your training zones must be off. What testing method are you using, and how often do you re-test yourself?

This is my most eminent question: I was on a nationally-renowned junior squad many years ago, but that was my last time racing, seven years ago. I've been cycling thousands of miles since then, and only now that I have a proper race bike am I trying to see "where I stand" categorically (again, determined pretty much only by W/Kg and training volume); Cat 2? Cat 1? I have no way of knowing until the spring racing season of course, so all I would like to know is a rough estimate of "where I am" before racing season. But what makes you believe that my numbers are "off"?

>Still, unless you're a Cat-1 pro at the top of your game, I don't think you're averaging 90% of your VO2max for 3 hours

My training zones are based off of a 285 FTP setting (I am 5'9, 129.5 lbs), which is corroborated by Strava estimates, GoldenCheetah readouts and my maximum 1-hour Normalized Power extracted from a recent ride. Additionally, I am only particularly good at 25-75 mile rides or Gran Fondos: this is a picture of me, which clearly shows I don't have the frame or legs of a sprinter or a crit racer. For additional reference, all my shirts are XS that I often have to tailor-in to make less baggy, and I'm a 29 waist

>>1022170
>Is this a physiological inevitability?
Yes. You're not Superman. No one is. You can't keep yourself at your peak fitness 12 months out of the year without something breaking somewhere. At the very least you'll get mentally/emotionally burned out and not even want to look at a bike let alone get on one and ride.

>My objective is not in training for "everything" so much as it is training "to the best of my ability"
You're training your STRENGTHS and not training your WEAKNESSES, and for that matter I don't think you're even aware of what your weaknesses are.

Part of working out a training plan for yourself is identifying what your actual weaknesses are and using those datapoints to decide where you should be focusing your efforts.

>was on a nationally-renowned junior squad many years ago, but that was my last time racing, seven years ago.
Right; that was seven years ago. Forget that. It's good that you had some experience as a junior, but that was as a junior, and if you were being trained in any sort of structured, deliberate manner, you've completely forgotten any of it, or whoever was coaching you had no idea what they were doing, I'm sorry to say.

>so all I would like to know is a rough estimate of "where I am" before racing season
"Where you are" is Cat-5, like everyone else who is just starting out, and if it's been 7 years then for all intents and purposes you're just starting out, like everyone else.

>>1022170
>>1022174

>My training zones are based off of a 285 FTP setting (I am 5'9, 129.5 lbs), which is corroborated by Strava estimates, GoldenCheetah readouts and my maximum 1-hour Normalized Power extracted from a recent ride.
Okay.. try one of these two methods instead:
Either the CTS Field Power Test: http://trainright.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/trainrightguidedescriptions.pdf
or, a 30-minute time-trial, done on a flat course, as hard as you can maintain STEADILY for the whole 30 minutes, at 90-100rpm cadence. Then take the AVERAGE (not NORMALIZED, the FLAT, unmodified average) power and heart rate for the last 20 minutes of the test.

Really, though, if you're going to self-coach, then get a copy of the Cyclists Training Bible and start reading it. I'm not going to claim it's the end-all, be-all of cycling training, but I think it's a great starting point for someone who wants self-coach. After you've used it for a few years and are very familiar with it and with yourself you'll probably find that there are different ways you want to do some things, but you really need to learn the basics first.

Just as a preview, what you need to be working on right now is your aerobic base, which will go on for about 12 weeks, then you start doing more advanced work in Threshold and Power and Anaerobic areas, planning to peak for the weeks of your high-priority races -- which is the whole point of periodized training, really: Rather than your overall fitness as an athlete being a flatline all year long, it drops off in the off-season, where you rest and recover and ride easy (or do crosstraining of some kind) and rebuild yourself from a long race season, and then start building up, peaking during the most important parts of race season, with your overall fitness higher than it would be if you tried to maintain it all year long.

CTB is in it's 4th edition, but here's a link to a scanned copy of the 3rd edition: http://www.lronman.ru/docs/CyclistBible3.pdf
Read it :-)

>>1022170
>>1022174
Also, if you don't mind my asking, what is your age and your weight?

Also, other questions if you don't mind answering them:
Living at home, or supporting yourself?
How many hours per YEAR can you dedicate to training? If by the year is not too easy to estimate, what the maximum number of hours per WEEK, all year long, can you schedule for training?
Do you ever go to the gym for any sort of strength training?
Do you do any group rides?
What bike do you have that you're using for training (and later, for racing)?
What's your on-bike nutritional strategy, especially thinking about being in the middle of a road race?

>>1022174
>>1022170
Oh, and one more thing: have you ever had any lab testing done? I'd be interested in knowing what your actual VO2max is, and as a matter of fact if you have a sports medicine clinic nearby you and can afford to have a VO2max test done there, it would be very revealing of what your potentials are.

damn i woulda won that cx race. fucker crashed into me in the first 15 seconds

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>>1022184
Thanks for this, you are very knowledgeable and have been very insightful : would you suggest also purchasing Joe Friels "'The Power Meter Handbook: A User's Guide for Cyclists and Triathletes" book in addition to his Training Bible?

>>1022185
>Also, if you don't mind my asking, what is your age and your weight?
22 years old (23 next week), 5'9 125.5 lbs

>Living at home, or supporting yourself?
Self-supported, yes
>How many hours per YEAR can you dedicate to training? If by the year is not too easy to estimate, what the maximum number of hours per WEEK, all year long, can you schedule for training?
I should now mention that I am a senior in a very rigorous and prestigious engineering school (which is to say: high stress, high course load), and thus far I have been able to squeak in 140-170 miles per week albeit at inconsistent intervals and consistencies, since most rides have ended up being the result of staving off an anxiety attack or to burn off a stress-induced food binge. So this is the single largest deterrent to my training, and it obviously takes precedence over cycling

>Do you ever go to the gym for any sort of strength training?
My school has a great gym, however I haven't been able to go in over a month as a result of my savage curriculum

>Do you do any group rides?
I am apart of my school's cycling team, and I participate in LBS rides fairly often, though 90% of the time I am going alone, since most of my rides end up being sporadic, impromptu decisions.

>What bike do you have that you're using for training (and later, for racing)?
Pic:

>What's your on-bike nutritional strategy, especially thinking about being in the middle of a road race?
Gels, depending on the severity of the race at hand: though I'm sure the correct strategy for fueling in-race is covered in Joe Friel's literature

>Oh, and one more thing: have you ever had any lab testing done?
I would like to know this as well, but I don't have the means to do so

>>1022200
There's almost guaranteed a place in your city to get tests done.

>>1022200
Okay.. one of the first steps in building a training plan is deciding how many hours a year you can dedicate to training, but of course training has to work around the rest of your life. You can train for racing if you have as little as 6 hours a week, but it's tough and you end up making trade-offs on some things to do it, and you might not come as close to your potential as you might with more time to dedicate to it, but sometimes that's just the way it is. I think you'll do OK though, all the answers to the questions I asked you give me a picture of someone who has their head on straight, you just need to be pointed in a direction when it comes to cycling training. Download the .pdf I pointed you at for CTB. I'd recommend you approach it the same way you approach your other studies; become a Student of Cycling Coaching and Training with regards to yourself, and I think you'll do fine. Considering your 'time crunched' schedule, I think you might want to also thumb through a copy of "The Time-Crunched Cyclist", which is as it implies geared towards someone in your situation, and which I hear good things about.

>>1022200
i throw up a little bit everytime i see your bike.

>>1022225
why

>>1022206
Since everything I own has been bought through my own money, a $20 ($32 total for both Friel's power meter guide and Bible) purchase would be nominal and more prudent than using a PDF, since I comprehend printed text better, though thanks for having provided a free source. Also, to answer your other questions I typically can designate between 8-12 hours of training per week and have done so for the past few months: a small amount I've reconciled all the while, which is why I've predominantly been training at such high intensities (because, I have assumed, it makes my training "more efficient" in that I eschew time on the saddle that would be at lower wattages or milage)

>>1022235

Fix that handlebar angle

>>1022236
>my set-up is the only correct way

wew lad

Training virgin here.

Any idea if all the spinning I do at the gym translates into actual cycling performance?

I also do a lot of weight training for my legs and I can do full no hands squats fairly easily

>>1022244
depends how much spinning you do, and what the fuck are no hands squats? as in not keeping them infront of you? so fucking what thats a stabilizing thing. how much do you BB squat plus depth? 190x5 ATG here.

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>>1022200
>>1022241
is this your previous bike?

>>1022255
200 BB squat for me. Might not mean much since I am a big guy

>>1022262
>say 190
>person says 200 without reps or depth
Cant tell if estatting or just stupid.

>>1022265
It's 200lbs back squatting, 5 reps.

>>1022284
1/4 squat,1/2 squat,below parallel or ATG?

>>1022287
1/4 squat above parallel

>>1022291
so you just slightly bend your knees? pathetic, thats not a squat thats an ego lift, lurk on /fit/. A proper depth squat is defined as when the top of your knees go above your hip crease.

>>1022295
I am not a serious lifter at all. Just someone trying to be fit. That's why I want to bike.

>>1022300
post your height and weight, bodyfat if you know it, did you read the fitsticky? It is one of the greatest and simplest guides out there. nutrition is more important than exercise.

>>1022304
My BMI us 40.1
6 ft tall 303 pounds.
Pretty fat around thighs and torso but I am developing muscles well

I am on a stricter diet the past week and lost 6 pounds so far. Might even go full vegan sometime soon.

I want to bike because going to the gym and walking all the time is boring + a killer on my knees

>>1022317
>Pretty fat around thighs and torso
No, you are fat all around, Please read the fitsticky,ever since i have read it, it has changed my life, i used to be fat too and now i have slightly visible abs, and dont go vegan, its a fucking stupid fad. do SS plus accessories and do cardio on your off days. Dont ego lift and do your BB compounds properly. You have to dedicate yourself to a fit life all around, you are classified as morbidly obese afterall, going to the gym 3x a week becomes apart of your routine instead of some chore you dont want to do after awhile.

>>1022320
I don't look obese at all with one layer of clothing. I have a thin neck and tiny legs and arms that grade into thickness at my torso and thighs. I do know I have to get better. That is why I want to train using a road racer.

I try to go to the gym all days of the week but I want to mix things up a bit by cycling through my town.

I do try to go for intensity in workouts but I have a pinched spine and I can't do 100% or else I will hurt myself (already did + spinning my ankles badly a few years ago)

I guess veganism won't help. I think I need to cut out much of my carbs and sugar though

>>1022322
HOLY FUCKING SHIT HOW DELUSIONAL ARE YOU? why am i even trying? just fucking die from a stroke fatty. READ FITSTICKY,GO TO FIT NOT HERE

>>1022329
Man you have a temper. Thanks for the help so far. Don't lose it. I know I have to get better. I said that like 3 times now.

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>>1022295
>be cyclists with DYEL level aesthetics
>at the gym squatting
>doing 2pl8 sets going well below parallel
>someone comes to the rack next to me
>makes sure to load more weight to his bar
>proceeds to do few sets of something that reminds more of a badly executed curtsy than a squat
>mfw

>>1022322
>BMI over 40
>I don't look obese
>mfw

>>1022235
Okay, in up to 12 hours per week, you should be able to do all the different types of training you really need to do to cover all the bases, and not short yourself on basic endurance, either, assuming that you can ride 5-6 days a week. In the pre-base period you can even trade ride days for gym sessions, and I highly recommend it to build general strength, which you'll make more specific later on with training rides. I think you'll do well so long as you work out a proper training plan for the year.

>>1022236
I think I know why he has it that way, and I've had the bruises on my wrists to prove it. Of course my solution was to get my upper body down lower when I got out of the saddle to sprint..

>>1022244
There's several complains I have about 'spinning at the gym':
1. Unless it's a high-end club bike with adjustments all over it to fit it specifically to you, most club bikes are total crap, with a gigantic seat, and it's nothing like pedaling a real bike.

2. Ergonomics aside, all you're doing is turning pedals. Riding an actual bike outside on actual roads, you're also getting bike-handling practice.

3. Sitting inside is boring and tedious and de-motivating. Riding outside is much more enjoyable.

Aside from all that, I guess you're getting some aerobic benefit from it. But personally I think you're nuts if you sit on one of those damned things for 3 hours instead of riding an actual bike.

>>1022257
Know what I think? I think that guy has a better bike than pretty much all of us, and you in particular are jealous and butthurt about that, so you're giving him a ration of shit because of that and his cockpit setup has nothing to do with it.

>>1022317
>303 pounds
I'm not even sure there's a bike you can buy that won't suffer early failures of one part or another at that weight, no bullying intended, dead serious. On a road bike you'd need a bulletproof wheelset with a minimum of 36 spokes each, more if you can manage it. Some manufacturers would void your warranty riding a bike at that weight. Better be sure whatever you're riding is rated for that much load or you might find yourself stranded somewhere with a wheel shaped like a potato chip or a cracked frame or forks.

>>1022322
See my previous post about making sure your bike can handle the load. Also plan on going to see someone who is skilled and experienced in bike fitting, at your weight and with your physical problems you'll need it fitted properly otherwise you WILL get hurt. And ignore the dickhead(s) telling you to give up and KYS. Do read the /fit/ sticky on the first page of /fit/ though it's got good information if you're trying to lose weight.

What training I'd recommend for someone in your situation, is to go through just the Base training blocks, which covers 12 weeks. You'll get up through Tempo rides with that, and long Tempo rides not only improve your aerobic an muscular endurance, they burn a shit-ton of calories, especially if you can get up to 90 to 120 minute long Tempo rides. After Base blocks start finding group rides in your area that you can handle. Riding in a group will help keep you motivated and you'll learn good bike-handling skills and group riding skills. Keep working a long Tempo ride into your weekly riding schedule to maintain/improve your fitness and burn lots of calories. If you lose a decent amount of weight and improve your endurance enough to cover the distance, think about working up to a Century event before the end of the 2017 riding season, good goal to work towards.

>>1022382
Oh, and I'll add this: I think if you train well between now and March, you'll show up at your first Cat-5 road race, and very possibly walk away with a win. It won't count for points and there won't be any prize money, just bragging rights and a note on your permanent record, but it'd feel damned good.

>>1022244
In the gym, consider more core exercises, as you use them for stability and manuvering on the bicycle, and you can't load them up like you can at the gym, and spin more on the road.

>>1022387
He's right at the weight limit for many manufacturers. Any decent basic offroad bike should be safe on the road.

But he's one cheesburger or two away from blowing it.

Weightlifting is stupid, calisthenics and yoga is more practical.

>>1022376
I know it sounds weird but with a layer of clothing, I don't look very thick. But that's why I put off diets for a long time. I want to change now because I want to look good without a layer too

Finished my 2nd ever CX Race this afternoon.
I was shit out of luck from the start.
They separated the CAT4s from 5s at the starting line, and had called roll and placed riders by rank. Since i've only had 1 other race, I was at the back of a 50 person group.
I fought to get by a few people, just to get nailed in the knee by the pedal of someone's bike as they fell over the first hurdle. Got past that, and nearly ran over a guy who went down on the 3rd turn. People just blowing up all around me. Managed to get through a few more people, but by now the leaders are so far ahead, it just becomes a training ride.
This course was harder than my 1st race.
3 different dismounts/hurdles.
Long, deep sandpit.
2 different twisty downhill sections on loose gravel and sand.
1 long run up, up stone steps.

The course was more geared toward MTBers...but, all in all, I had fun and finished.
On to the next one.

>>1022429
>Weightlifting is stupid
Only if you're not tailoring what exercises you do to your specific purpose in doing them.

This is a misunderstanding I get into all the time with other cyclists, even the guys on my own team. I tell them that I think it's vital for them to do gym strength training in the off-season before starting Base, like I've done for years, and they get this confused look and tell me that they don't see how it could make sense to "train like a bodybuilder" when you're going to ride a bike. Then I explain to them how what I do in the gym is specifically designed with a cyclist in mind. They never seem to understand, and they never remember either, because I have to keep explaining it to them.

There's a "Strength" section in the CTB, and in another book I used to use a long time ago ("Base Building for Cyclists"), my ex-coach had me do strength training (although he left it up to me so far as how I did it), there are countless articles on the Internet and in magazines about how strength training specific for cyclists will improve your performance, and so on.

'Yoga' is good for improving overall flexibility, but it's time-consuming, so if you don't have the time (or the patience for it), then just doing stretching for 15 minutes a day every day serves the same purpose.

'Calisthenics' doesn't go far enough towards improving the strength of your Prime Movers -- your quads, hamstrings, glutes, your calves to a lesser extent, and all the associated stabilizing muscles. Using a cyclist-specific training regimen improves all the above, plus your core (abdominals, upper and lower back, all of which if they're weak will mean you waste the power of your legs), and strengthen your shoulders and arms so you're more resistant to injury in those areas.

>>1022501
Core, shoulders and leg strength.

Core is imperative, and if nothing else it must be trained

>>1022864
In a nutshell, that's what I said, yes.

Just learned I have a huge power imbalance between legs. If I can get my right leg as strong as my left... I'm excited

>>1023003
Did you determine this yourself, or was there lab testing involved?

While we're also on the subject of off-season strength training, do you do any training in the gym? Have you/do you do single-leg leg press, and if so do you notice a difference there, too?
Single-leg leg press would help fix a muscular imbalance (which is more common than you might think). You'd use the same amount of weight on the sled for each leg, but do an extra set with the weaker leg (or one less set with the stronger leg) until they're equal.

How's it feel on the bike when you're doing something like a long steady climb?

>>1023217
>>1023217
I figured it out doing one-leg squats and lifts, yes.

I'm remedying it that way yeah.

Funnily enough, on the bike I thought my right leg was stronger, but that might be because it was less fatigued than my left since I used it less. On long climbs I honestly hadn't noticed.

It was something I was curious about since I have stages (would a left side meter make me unconsciously favor my left leg?) and it seems to have done that.

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Is the Tickr a meme HRM? What do you girls use?

>>1023351
Sounds like what you also need to do is pay attention to your pedaling mechanics. Maybe even put your bike on a trainer for half an hour and concentrate on pedaling as smoothly and evenly as possible, listening to the sound your tire makes on the roller. I usually tell people to avoid using a trainer as much as possible, but this is an instance where it could actually help you.

>>1023401
Yes. I'm working with some high performance coaching currently and I'm surprised we just now have caught this imbalance. Perhaps I'll invest in a chainring based meter or something.

>>1023394
Tickr on Garmin premium strap.
Get no random spikes which I used to get with the Garmin. But it's been really shitty connecting/turning on recently, not sure what to do about that.

>>1023421
Replace the battery?

>>1023394
You can buy a dedicated BT or ANT HRM for less. There's not really a reason you need to pay more than twice the price for compatibility for both.

I have a generic $10 BT HRM, and a $10 old stock Wahoo ANT HRM, which were bought on sale and work fine and cheaper than buying a TICKR. I had the BT when I used my phone, and bought the Wahoo when I got a Garmin.

>>1023417
Believe it or not check Craigslist a few times a week, used PowerTap wheels get sold sometimes for cheap. Just check with the seller whether it's Ant+ or not. You'll want to avoid the older 'wired' PowerTap hubs, they use the 'Little Yellow Computer' that was proprietary and that they don't make anymore.

>>1023421
>random spikes
HR straps that are one piece with conductive rubber pads get that way after a year or two.
You also need to wet them down a little before you put them on so it gets a good connection to your skin.

is 230 watts for an hour good?

>>1023476
Not really, honestly, BUT just the number by itself is useless. How much do you weigh? Were you at threshold the whole time? Could you have done more?

>>1023478
If I was well rested I could have done more. I'm overweight at 230 lbs and yes I was there pretty much the whole time.

>>1023476
I can hold 290 W at 129 lbs, git gud my dued

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>>1023476
>>1023479
So that's 2.2 W/Kg which, to be honest with you, is not good. But don't get discouraged and keep going.

This chart should give you an overview if you're interested in which numbers are "good".

>>1023482
What is FT?

>>1023394
I have Tickr and got it mostly so I don't have to keep a phone with me while doing sports other than cycling. Got it cheaply on sale.

>>1023483
Functional Threshold

AKA your 1-hour power

>>1023480
Tell me all the races you've won with a nearly 5 W/kg

>>1023504
0 because of repeated season-ending pregnancies

>>1023507
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N

>>1023476
>>1023478
Yeah, this.

Memo to anons in this thread: When you're talking about power, please do put it in terms of watts-per-kilogram.

>>1023507
>0 because of repeated season-ending pregnancies
wat?

>>1023507
Lmao k mr pro

I do weightlifting 3x a week and i ride my bike 4x a week and only put on some 125-150 km a week, id like to ride more and would like to do some recovery rides after my gym session, my question is how should i pace myself and how long should the ride be?

>>1023924
Question: Do you lift for liftings' sake, or are you lifting to become a stronger rider? If it's the latter of the two, post your routine; I've got my own (for cycling purposes) but I'm curious what others do.

>how should i pace myself and how long should the ride be?
An hour or so of easy spinning (i.e., mostly in zones 1 and 2), no long hard efforts, no big hill climbs, stick to a flat-to-easy-rolling course with a high cadence. Rides like this are a great time to work on basic speed-skills type stuff, basically improving your pedaling mechanics and efficiency with something like several-minutes-long intervals of 'endurace spinning': on the flat, drop down to an easier cog or two, raising your cadence, but maintaining the same road speed. Do this for several minutes (start with, like 3-5 minutes), then return to your normal cadence for a while. Do this several times during your ride. Obviously, focus on spinning as smoothly as possible. Doesn't put much of a load on your muscles, but over the course of weeks and months helps improve your pedaling efficiency by reducing how much your opposing muscles oppose each other through each revolution of the cranks.

>>1024020
i lifting for liftings sake, just wanna be a proficient cyclist as well. And how much spinning are we talking about? 110RPM? and i still struggle with pedaling efficiency, the bible says to strike heel down and to lift the pedal up on the retreating side of the stroke but i cant do it subconsciously yet.

>>1024023
>i still struggle with pedaling efficiency
Is your normal cadence 80-90rpm without bouncing on the saddle? If not then you need to concentrate on that.

>And how much spinning are we talking about? 110RPM?
Pick a larger cog on the flat that puts you at about 10rpm higher cadence than your usual cadence while maintaining road speed.

>>1024023
>the (cyclists training) bible says to strike heel down and to lift the pedal up on the retreating side of the stroke but i cant do it subconsciously yet.
Okay, here's another pedaling mechanics drill that will probably benefit you: single-leg pedaling drills. These are best done on a trainer, especially if you're not used to doing them and are having problems with your pedaling mechanics to start with, but you can do them out on the road, so long as you can do it safely, preferably somewhere there's no traffic and it's straight and flat; if on a trainer, have a box or a chair to rest your unclipped foot on. In a low gear (small chainring, large cog), unclip one foot from the pedal, and pedal slow with the other leg, the emphasis being on turning the crank as smoothly as possible. Note that this is not about turning the crank fast or hard. Start with 30 seconds per leg for 3 sets. Do this 2-3 times per week, increasing the time per interval every week as you improve.

You'll probably find this difficult and a little frustrating at first. Stick with it.

What I've done in the past is incorporate this and things like it into the early part of the warmup routine I'll do prior to harder rides.

>>1024037
what do you mean bouncing on the saddle? I stay in the 80-100 range most of the time with an average of 90, i tend to hit 100+ rpm at times.
And your drill, when you say increase the time you mean the time for 1 stroke per leg? so i have to go extremely slowly for 1 rotation with almost no resistance in 30+ seconds?

>>1024020
Would you mind posting your routine.

I do stronglifts with some minor additions. I've added extra core work, box jumps, leg presses, dips, and pull ups.

>>1024044
By 'bouncing in the saddle' I mean your sit-bones feeling like they're moving around on it rather than just sitting as still as possible on it.

>I stay in the 80-100 range most of the time with an average of 90, i tend to hit 100+ rpm at times.
Okay, that's good, but is your pedal stroke smooth? You said earlier you have problems with your pedaling mechanics, but then you tell me the above. If you're forcing a cadence of 80 to 100rpm but your butt is bouncing around on the saddle, then that's a sign that your legs are fighting with themselves and you're wasting energy.

>And your drill, when you say increase the time you mean the time for 1 stroke per leg? so i have to go extremely slowly for 1 rotation with almost no resistance in 30+ seconds?
I mean every week or two, as you improve, increase the time per interval a little, like from 30 seconds to 45 seconds, up to the point where you can do up to 2 minutes per leg, without that leg fatiguing so much that you can't continue turning the crank with it smoothly. Remember, this is all about your pedal stroke being *smooth and steady*. Initially it's a conscious effort requiring concentration. Over time it becomes reflex and muscle memory. The goal here is to be riding along at all times with a smooth, steady pedal stroke, at any intensity, not having to think about it at all.

>>1024055
is it actually that hard? going slow with almost no resistance seems like the opposite of hard

>>1024058
You're 'going slow with almost no resistance' with one leg unclipped from the pedal and making a conscious effort to maintain the same angular velocity throughout the entire 360 degrees of each and every pedal stroke, making the motion as smooth as possible. Try it then come back and comment on it.

>>1024046
>Would you mind posting your routine.
Sure, but keep in mind that I train specifically for cycling, I'm not a bodybuilder, or powerlifter, or training for 'aesthetics'.

Hard to do since it varies so much over the course of the Fall and Winter, and then different again during the Spring and Summer, and during Peak and Race weeks I may do nothing in the gym at all, and make that 1 day a week a total rest day.

Here's the core exercises though. Again, depending on the time of year, I may not do all of them:
Step-ups (done with hand weights or a barbell)
4-way hip stabilizers (done with a low cable and an ankle strap)
Seated rows
Lat pulldowns
Leg press (on 45 degree sled)
Standing rows
Shoulder press
Leg curls (mostly because it's a personal weakness due to sciatica problems with my left leg)
Leg extension
Seated calf raises
Situps-with-a-twist on a decline bench (or other 'core' exercises, as I see fit to do them)

All the above are a combination of things from 'Base Building for Cyclists' and CTB.

Before you say it, 'no', I don't do squats. I know all about how beneficial they are, and I know how to do them with proper form, and I have more than adequate flexibility to do them ass-to-grass, but my thoracic spine is curved outwards too much, so no matter if I do high bar or low bar, as the weight increases beyond a certain point, it rests on my spine, is painful, and would end up injuring me. Also it's much easier to get injured in general doing squats, so I see no reason to risk it. Someone might also say 'do front squats', but I just can't see myself with 2.5 times my bodyweight in front of me, doing sets of squats. Leg press plus other things have proven to be more than adequate.

>>1024062
>during Peak and Race weeks I may do nothing in the gym at all, and make that 1 day a week a total rest day
Should clarify: in the Fall and Winter, I'm in the gym 3 days a week, out riding the other 4 days.
After early Base is done, then it drops to a 1 day a week 'maintenance' phase and I concentrate more on riding.

>>1024062
are you fucked up handlebar bmc anon who posted his body on here before? wanna post yours just for the hell of it?

>>1024064
Oh, you mean this guy, right? >>1022200
Nah, I'm not that guy, but I was having a discussion with him.

Went down to the nearby human performance labs at a university to do a lactate and VO2 test today.
Results from the ramp test (increase resistance by 1w every 2 seconds until failure) were OK, got to 450w (6.25w/kg) before I popped. RER is a bit crap (250w) so need to do more fasted rides. Waiting to see the data from the whole thing before I recalibrate my training plan.
Things are looking good overall for 1st cat promotion next summer.

>>1024103
Wow Anon that's pretty impressive and inspiring!

Can you post what some of your training schedule from last year looked like? Say, your Peak weeks schedule? Be interested in what that looks like for someone at your level.

Also, where'd you get the testing done, exactly?

>>1024103
I wanna do a VO2 max test so bad. Nice numbers broseph

>>1024118
>>1024161
I live about an hours drive from one of England's top sports science universities. I just emailed them asking if they needed a lab rat. You can do these tests privately but they're stupid expensive.
This time last year I was doing turbo training 3/week focusing on a spinning set, a 2x20 min set and a 5 min intervals session. I was commuting (11 hilly miles to work) 4 times a week, at least once a week on the fixed gear. Weekends were 80-110 miles on both days.
Did barely any work at the gym (I know I'm about to get a spanking for that!) I just focused on core strength for power transfer.

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Finally broke the 5 W/Kg barrier (using today's 1 hour NP data), which came after a savage 3+ hour ride yesterday on sore legs (pic related). I'm very excited with my current standing and would like some (You)s to bring me back down to Earth, since my FTP has to be above 285 W now

>>1024103
Not sure if legit..

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>>1024357
Wait two days and I'll publish the .csv file.
That's mid test btw

>>1024300
Race and win then buddy. No one gives a fuck about strava numbers.

>>1024425
still over two months away family, cyclocross a shit

>>1024373
Okay. You can understand anyone being skeptical of someone coming on here and claiming they're Cat-2 and testing with stats like that.

What's your sprint like? That's something that's trainable to a point, but still largely determined by genetics, and as such can make the difference between winning stages and not.

>>1024429
race cyclocross pussy, it's fun as shit

>>1024434
Genetics only really play a part at the higher levels, everything is trainable until E/UCI pro.
Mah sprint is reasonable. P-max of +1400w @72kg. My main skill in the finale is being able to pick a way through the melee.
Ftp is 324w. Looking for about 10% for next season.

recovery rides for an hour days that i go to the gym or not? I go 3x a week. would it be too much on the body?

>>1024783
As long as you don't get carried away to start pushing hard then you'll be fine

>>1024783
Unless you're one of the typical gymcels of /fit/ that shun cardio like it's from Satan, 60 to 90 minutes is perfectly OK. If you have a HR monitor or power meter and know your training zones, keep it to zones 1 and 2; if you don't, then avoid going hard enough that your respiration rate rises to the point where you'd have to pause every 3rd or 4th word if you were carrying on a conversation with someone riding with you. Stick to a flat-to-rolling course, no big hill climbs, or if you have no choice in that, then use your small(est) chainring and biggest cog and keep the intensity down. If you're bulking or eating at maintenance, don't forget to eat a little more to compensate for the calorie burn.

>I go 3x a week. would it be too much on the body?
Nope. I train 7 days a week in the Fall/Winter, 3 days at the gym and 4 days on the bike, more hours/miles than you'll be doing, and it's fine. In fact you'll be much better off in the long run, you'll probably have a larger capacity for training in any given week because of it.

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Hit my 5 minute Power PR, halfway through today's ride, feels good man

>>1024904
yea i go 3x TO THE GYM in a week plus 3-4 rides on the days i dont go to the gym, If i do do the recovery rides i would ride 6-7 days a week plus the gym 3 times a week.

PEOPLE IF YOU'RE GONNA POST POWER POST WEIGHT

>>1025022
see above

>>1025217
It actually makes more sense to just post W/kg instead of watts and weight separately.

>>1025217
I'm the same manlet that always posts here:

>>1015803
, so that puts me at a 5 minute mark of 6 W/Kg

>>1025279
Well thats good. I can do 400 for 5 putting me around 6 as well

>>1025371
>400 for 5
Okay.. but if you're thinking that's your FTP, then you might well be wrong. If you have a high capacity for anaerobic endurance, then that might just be 5 minutes of anaerobic. Also, is that 5 minutes without a single break in your cadence? Or did you start to blow up after 3 minutes and started pedaling again 30 seconds later, after your vision stopped greying out on you? Makes a difference.

The average power of the last 20 minutes of a 30 minute time-trial is a fair measure of your actual FTP.

>>1025279
>>1025758
I know all this. See post referenced above. 6 w/kg for 5 min. Nowhere close to that FTP.

off season of 2 weeks done. Just did a bunch of gym work in that time. Gonna keep doing some gym work and then adding riding in this week.