Hub gears

It's hard to tell. High end IG systems like nuvinci, rolhoff, pinion, etc cost so much that is hard to have a fair opinion

People who drop $300 on a hub convince themselves it rules

I see bike tourists hyping rolhiff when they are stuck in Cambodia and it breaks... And the company sends them a new one. Doesn't sound so great to me

I've heard some bad stuff about belt drives on geared hubs due to debris and snow getting between the belt / cogs. I'd stick with a chain if I got one.

Alfine 8 seems to be pretty solid, though big jumps between gears. I've heard of people blowing up Alfine 11 hubs, though that seems to be mostly due to exceeding the recommended ratios trying to get extra low end for mtb / fat biking.

>>1014746
>Rohloff breaks
They do?

I have a nexus 8 speed. Its not anything special, kinda nice switching gears at a standstill but not many other benefits, and if you plan ahead you can mitigate that on traditional deraileurs by shifting down as you pull up at the lights or whatever.

Pros
>clean lines
>low maintenance
>can shift gears while not pedalling

Cons
>lump of iron in your back wheel
>feels like it causes a bit more drag in anything other than the 1:1 gear, 5th I think on mine, but that is purely subjective
>smaller gear ratio spread

I'd go for alfine 11. Regreasing a Nexus 8 every year or two will cost you close to 100$ Canadian each time, unless you do it yourself which is more work than someone who wants to set it and forget it would care to commit.

The internet is full of picture of Rohloff hubs with failed spoke flanges - seems like mostly with heavier riders or people who are trying to use them for touring, but still distressing for such an expensive part.

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>>1014766
Yeah, they're a little prone to flange failure. Not really a great big deal because they're great about warranty even if you're in the middle of nowhere.

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>>1014745
try one of these boyo
>are you guys ready for /o/ to move in

They are good at what they do. If you don't specifically need their special strengths (toughness and convinence) derailurs are a better choice in every other way.

>>1014825
No. Not ready.

I've got a three speed on my Brompton, it's pretty good. Saying that I've never had any issue with derailleurs in many thousands of km of tough conditions, besides once breaking a cable.

If worse comes to worse I know I can nigger-rig a derailleur setup to get me down the road, but I've heard plenty of stories of the fancier IGH seizing or going freewheel. What use is a warranty when I'm 100km from anywhere?

>>1014745
something that has low maintenance, but is expensive/difficult to work on when it does finally need it

vs derailers, needs more frequent maintenance but is easy as fuck to do it

I'm in the latter camp, cause I like to take care of my shit, not ignore it till it dies then throw money at it

>>1014746
Nuvinci is an entirely different beast compared to rohloff and pinion. The point of getting a Nuvinci is almost entirely about getting a hub that can work well with a motor.

>>1014745
Recently I got my sister a vintage Hercules roadster that needed some maintenance. Luckily the Sachs torpedo pentasport hub (the older 2 cable version) was in good condition, so I didn't have to get it apart.

For a shitter like my sister it's fine, shifting is braindead easy and she has the coaster drum brake she likes.

But I wouldn't ride on that thing.

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>>1014761
>I've heard of people blowing up Alfine 11 hubs, though that seems to be mostly due to exceeding the recommended ratios trying to get extra low end for mtb / fat biking
You have to go pretty low for that to happen. I ran mine below the Shimano recommended ratio on a mountain bike and it survived, however the torque was too much for the anti-turn washers to hold and the axle would be pushed out of the dropouts under heavy load. Some DIY torque arms (I don't know if anyone sells any to fit Alfines) would fix that.

Pic related. Not the same Alfine I had on a mountain bike, I have two of them. This one is running 39:16.

>>1014907

I didn't realize that. I always wanted one just for the novelty, but stories of them breaking kept me away

>>1014938
>39:16
Meant 42:16. The original chainring was 39 (double along with a 50 something) but I replaced it with 42 so the overall gear range is similar to the original.

>>1014904
> ignore it until it dies

Getting a hub doesn't automatically make you a technical illiterate.
I care for my stuff also and so far I'm happy with the low maintenance aspect. Came from derailleurs and didn't want to constantly worry about my drivetrain in winter so I switched to IGH + fully enclosed chainguard.
Chain has topped 10.000 km with exactly three times of putting oil on it and still is doing well (all weather, year-round rider).
Can't get that with derailleurs.

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>>1014938
Did you use a torque wrench to tighten the axle nuts?

What are "torque arms"?

sicc bike

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>>1015075
I don't own a torque wrench nor know what the torque rating is for the axle nuts. I actually did the nuts up so tight once that I completely stripped the threads in them (they're pretty soft, much softer than the axle) and had to buy some replacements. Unfortunately it's not a standard 10mm axle threading so getting some harder replacements isn't that simple (they could be found of course, but I could never find the spec and I don't have the equipment to identify the thread myself).

Torque arms are bars that rigidly attach the axle to the frame, like you see on coaster brake hubs and that one you posted, and stop the axle from rotating. As standard the Alfines rely on washers that slide over the axle (it's not completely round) and slot into the dropouts. They're the yellow part in this photo.

>>1014945

Chains are consumables which cost only a couple of bucks, hardly a selling point.

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How about some ebike torque arm
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/torque-arms.html

>>1015091
Won't fit the Alfine axle. I have an e-bike too and was curious as to whether they'd work but the e-bike axle is much larger, it's 10mm wide at the flats so it by itself can't rotate in the dropout.

>>1014922
>For a shitter like my sister it's fine [...]

If I were your sister, I'd slap you silly for saying that.

>>1015080
/o/ here. you're fucking retarded. buy a torque wrench.

>>1014945

Can you post the chain case you used? I want to go fully enclosed on a single speed beater

>>1015082
It's not about money it's about maintenance, as I have clearly stated and which was a main argument in the post I referred to.

>>1015351
I built it myself with truck tarpaulin and alu profiles.

>>1015344
Having a torque wrench wouldn't have solved the issue. Unless you're a retard a torque wrench isn't needed for the majority of bicycle components except carbon.

I work at a bike shop, and every so often we have frames abandoned because people dont want to pay more than 100 to fix their bikes even though they also dont want to do any basic maintenance themselves
Through this i obtained an old raleigh frame that needs a new rear wheel. It had come with a sturmey archer 3 speed and i was thinking of replacing it with the same, anyone got a reason why i shouldnt use that IGH and use another one instead?
Its intended purpose would be winter riding

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>>1015422
Hmmm interesting,Im also in the (though)process of upgrading my grandma's bike that we inherited with a 3 speed hub.
Oh and I work at a shoppe too.
And people don't want to spend more than 40 euro on their (completely trashed)bike

Im deciding between the shimano nexus 3(sg3-c41) and the SA AWC(II)
>nexus 3
More common/easier to get parts for
More rugged "bell crank" thingy at the axle(more rugged than an indicator spindle/chain anyway)
Bigger gear range
Probably a slightly stronger coaster brake
Easier repairs IME

>AWC(II)
More classic looking,both the shifter and hub(bike looks a bit like pic related.It fits better on the bike looks-wise)
Smaller gear ratio
More expensive(for me anyway)
I dunno if they're good since I almost never see one,all the bikes I repair have either nexus 3,7,8 or Sachs/sram 5/7 or the SA AW with drum brake.

>>1015416
>>1015344
>>1015080
I Really like my torque wrench,I got a fancy stem that needs 5,5Nm and when loosening them I always think "wow 5,5 Nm is quite a bit less torque than I'd put on it by hand".
If I have a shimano nexus hub with a questionable axle thread (eg damaged) I always use a torque wrench @35Nm(manual says 30-45Nm I think) since It usually is less than I would torque it by hand,even though I never really trip threads.

That being said I never had a problem with my own bikes when I didnt have/use a torque wrench

>>1015431
> I always think "wow 5,5 Nm is quite a bit less torque than I'd put on it by hand".
The torque ratings on the majority of parts are bullshit and you can safely exceed them without damaging anything (to a certain extent of course, it's possible to strip the majority of fittings on a bike by hand if you try hard enough).

When I stripped my axle nuts I was far exceeding the specified torque (I don't know what that number actually is but obviously it's going to be less than what I did). If I had a torque wrench and did the nuts up to the specified value it simply would've been even more likely to slip.

>>1015434
>The torque ratings on the majority of parts are bullshit and you can safely exceed them without damaging anything (to a certain extent of course, it's possible to strip the majority of fittings on a bike by hand if you try hard enough).

I certainly agree that a lot of parts have a very large tolerance to overtightening...even undertightening doesnt make some parts come loose. ,But since My stem had been rock solid for a while while "just" being at 5,5Nm It surprised me at how low of a torque value it is secure.

Btw is your axle still ok?
As in is it just the nut that stripped or did it deform some threads on the axle too?

>>1015435
Yeah the torque ratings are basically a safe minimum that'll hold the component in place. It doesn't take much rotational torque to produce a lot of clamping pressure.

>As in is it just the nut that stripped or did it deform some threads on the axle too?
Just the nuts, the axle is fine.

>>1015438
>>As in is it just the nut that stripped or did it deform some threads on the axle too?
>Just the nuts, the axle is fine.

Good to see that alfine axles behave like the nexus axles,strip an old SA hub nut and the axle isn't usually that happy.

>>1015080
Get a tug nut you mongoloid

>>1015454
Not easily possible with vertical dropouts and needing to have the anti-rotation washers. Could probably DIY something but no off the shelf part is going to work.

>>1015374

Post pics babe

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>>1015431
Laced up a 2nd hand nexus 3 hub (cross 4 since they didn't have the correct spoke length for x3)

Greased it up with mos2 nlgi grease despite the whole internets saying not to,the pawls arent sticking so I'm fine.
The pawls in the nexus 3 are fairly strongly spring loaded and the grease is on the low side of the nlgi2 viscosity rating,I expect little or no problems.

Waiting for 2 Schwalbe professional bike tires since the old Schwalbe professional bike tires are like FUBAR at the wire bead.

Update and photo will follow.

Who needs this overcomplicated shit?

>>1016237
It's simpler in installation and setup, aesthetics, and sometimes maintenance. The complicated part is internal and as the customer doesn't assemble it themselves I don't see what relevance that has.

>>1016237
For the 90% of users that would never open it it's a lot less complicated to operate than a derailleur. They are the norm for town bikes in Europe.

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>>1016237
So complicated and unreliable that literally all bikes in bike rental fleets are equipped with IGH.

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>>1015462
From last winter.
Used alu u-profiles for top and bottom and bent flat alu for radiuses.
Tarpaulin was tailored to fit chainguard frame and glued with gum glue.
Chainguard can be opened for maintenance/checking (all openings with velcro).

>>1014821

I've seen a ton of Surly MTB with them because the dropouts have fittings for Rohloff. They use them for offroad touring, which I guess is probably the reason for the failures. I wouldn't fit one to my MTB.

>>1014945
>use IGH in winter bike
>temps drop to -30°C
>IGH stops working completely and becomes a freewheel
I don't know if this is something that riddles only Nexus hubs but at least my Nexus hubs, and everyone else I know that has Nexus hubs, did it every single time somewhere between -20°C and -30°C.

For that reason alone I will never have IGH on my winter bikes again. I'll rather do more maintenance but have something that will not catastrophically fail at low temperatures.

>>1016350
I assumed this is for damage limitation and to make stealing components more difficult. Also why are the mudguards so short on these bikes?

>>1016409
>I assumed this is for damage limitation
i.e. not unreliable. It's very difficult to accidentally damage an IGH, not so much with derailers.

>to make stealing components more difficult
It wouldn't be hard to use security bolts on derailers. Also if I was going to rob a Boris bike for parts the IGH is probably the only thing of value worth taking. No one's going to steal a 6/7 speed derailer off a rental bike.

> why are the mudguards so short on these bikes?
Why should they be any longer? Those ones look to have perfectly adequate coverage.

>>1015458
You posted a picture of a mountain bike with track ends. Is that your bike or not?

Mongoloid.

>>1014745
What are pros like racers and messenger service peeps using? Those guys depend on their gear more than anybody else and probably have a good idea of what works and is reliable.

>>1016394
christ, as an Australian, I have no idea what temps that cold are like, let alone riding a bicycle in it.

I think my tits are going to freeze off when it gets down to single digits.

>>1016637
In racing reliability doesn't matter as long as it lasts through the race. In everyday use race gear isn't always the best choice since it may have reliability sacrifices to gain performance.

Messengers run fixies for muh reliability. And fixies probably have the best reliability to maintenance ratio just because of how little there is that can go wrong.

>>1016638
Meh, it's not that bad if you're properly geared. And you get acclimated to cold weather pretty well.

>>1016595
No it's not, I've already posted one of my bikes. That one was simply an example photo to show the anti rotation washers.

Even with horizontal dropouts it's still not going to be easy to use tugs as the washer is still going to be in the way.

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Planetary good vibe bump

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>>1015862

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>>1017876
I'm satisfied,the 3 speed nexus hub shifts well and is a great addition to this bike,the build in coaster brake is (too)strong af too.

Especially in urban stop n' start enviroments gearhubs are usefull

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If you want efficiency you have to go with Rolhoff I guess. Nuvicis are even worse

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>>1017884
better plot

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>>1017884
>>1017886
I hate how the nexus 7/8 are basically 2 planetary gear systems set in series.
Yeeey double the energy loss!
I test ride a lot of bikes with those hubs and they ALWAYS feel sluggish/slow,they don't have a direct drive either.

I wonder how much difference there will be with a sturmey archer8 that is converted to oil lubrication vs a nexus hub.

>>1017884
>>1017886
3 and 5 speed hubs are fine too, especially if you can find an old oil lubed one in good condition. They only have a single planetary gear stage to cause losses, with the middle gear being direct drive.

See: http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf

>>1017877
get a chainguard nigga, this shit is going to get squeaky soon

Love the 7 speed shimano nexus.
Simple with a relatively good range.

>>1020920
same here, works great on my town beater, and has required no maintenance for the past 10 years apart from a new chain. I dont give a fuck about muh power loss, im not trying to race on my town bike.

>>1020996
>>1020920
Just buy a sturmey archer from 1950,faggots!

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>>1017884
This plot is misleading. It looks as if the derailleur system has a constant efficiency of 94%.

This is not true. It depends on the state of the system (new, clean vs. old and badly maintained) and more importantly on your choice of gear.

Crosschaining will have negative effect on efficiecny as well as small cogs (less theeth - less efficient).

That doesn't mean IGH are more efficient (some actually are in certain gears), but it should be mentioned for a complete picture.

Source:
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.de/2012/01/factors-affecting-bicycle-transmission.html

>>1014774
Ya, this.
>>1014825
But is it a two-speed axle?
>if so, I've been looking for one...
>>1014826
Yup, niche product. If riding for tra/n/sportation rather than sport is a niche...
>>1017969
The Rohloff is three planetary stages in series and lacks a direct gear too. It just has quality bearings, lube, and sealing. A grease to oil conversion helps, if you never lay it on it's side.

>>1022685
>the Rohloff is three planetary stages in series
Only for gears 3 and 5, which are some of the least efficient.
>lacks a direct gear
False. That would be gear 11.

>>1017969
5th is direct on the 8 speed hubs

>>1022760
Ah,I see
Nexus 8 still sux tho!
Pinion x Triple FD x SRAM dualdrive FTW!!11

Alfine 8 is cheap and basically indestructible. I ran it at 39/23, way below Shimano recommended ratio, for 6 years with no problems. At that price point they are better than derailleur systems for 99% of customers.

>>1023198
Noice,performed any maintenance on it yet?

>>1023180
1458 speed!

>>1023201
I do a yearly disassembly/degreasing/regreasing. This part is a bitch. There's always this snap on ring that pinches my finger.

>>1014761
Belt drives are great. You just need to hose it down from time to time in order to prevent dirt building up on the cogs. Other than that, they're 0 maintenance and last for 40,000 kms

>>1025846
40.000km for 60€. That's 15€ every 10.000km. Sounds good to me. But I get the same distance for money and minimally more maintenance with chain + closed chainguard.

I decided to go for the old fashioned chain. Belts are a little less efficient. As far as I know, the belt drive is much more sensitive to misalignment?

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Does anyone have any experience with the SRAM automatix? I'm debating putting it on my single speed commuter.

Hubs are awesome for city riding with a lot of starting and stopping. Shifting down while stationary is nice, and then smooth shifting under power when accelerating is just brilliant. Combine with near to no maintenance required and its by far the superior gearing type for city commuting. I really couldnt handle derailleur gears in town desu, I would just get frustrated.

>>1026227
>shifting under power

My alfine8 doesn't do this, I find traditional derailleurs shift better than my hub under load

>>1026231
hm thats strange, my nexus7 shifts instantly under even full power, never a hiccup. And this is on a >15 year old beater that has barely seen maintenance.

>>1014823
EVERY spoked bicycle wheel with less than 32 spokes is prone to breakage.
IMHO.

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>>1026126
I tested it once because my friend used it.

It's nice because you have extremly low maintenance, not only to clean but also no wires switches etc.

I thought it felt a bit sluggish and sometimes switched gears for no reason. but my friend said you get used to it fast / it wont happen anymore

>>1026232
rip nexus 7

>>1026233
But rohloff is not less than 32 spokes

>>1026233
>implying 32+ spokes makes a wheel UNBREAKBALE!

>>1026338
Unbreakable union of 36 spoked wheel that great Russia has welded forever to stand!

I have like 3 sturmey archer hubs in my posession that I've repaired. Dunno what to do with them.

>>1026530
Have each hub drive a chainring that powers the next hub