/upg/ - Urban Planning General

>>1005913
>Boring Lakes

>>1005547
>>1005547
>>1005547
Post memorials for defunct urban tram lines

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I look at something like this every day and it always makes me think of that yellow mold looking for food.

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Everyone is good at something

>>1005930
>israel
>diamond polishers

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>>1005923
They are mill and overlaying a local street and exposed the streetcar tracks that were last used in 1954.

>>1005930
how is australia number one in the world in GTA?

Can anyone personally recommend any good books on Haussmann's Renovation of Paris?

>>1006236
>tfw haussmann destroyed people's home to turn paris into a global city of design and architecture
>we destroy peoples homes for freeways and airport runways

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>>1005913
>Post your interesting maps.
Pic related is from a professional analysis for possible extensions of my city's tram/light rail network. Solid lines are the existing lines, dashed lines are the possible extensions that were analyzed.

The whole document is 200 pages long and gives a nice insight into transport planning. Unfortunately, it is in German, but I can post and translate some pictures and information in case someone is interested.

>>1006341
I've been on the Philadelphia metro.

It is dingy as fuck.

>>1006341
>includes irrelevant LRT systems like calgary and one line metros built in the soviet era
>doesnt include montreal, one of the most efficient actual metro systems in the world

REEEEEEEE

>>1006376
>>doesnt include montreal, one of the most efficient actual metro systems in the world

It's between the Edmonton and Ottawa sticks.

>>1006379
>It's between the Edmonton and Ottawa sticks.

what did he mean by this

>>1006386
That Montreal IS in that picture. Second row, second from the right.

>>1006354
I ride the Philly subway every day.
It's cleaner than New York's, so there..

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>reading an article about the so-called Tianjin Eco-City

>massive apartment towers in the park
>8 lane roads everywhere
>completely unwalkable
>wasteful "open space" everywhere

ah yes, solar panels and trees in the architectural renders means we are eco-friendly

no wonder they can't get people to move there

>>1006525
I can't see shit, captain.

>>1006341
This is far from up-to-date, but it's awesome seeing so many urban rail systems from all around the world.

>>1005930
>female grad's
>female mps
>unemployed women
>women
>female doctors
>female farmhands

why is this list so gender biased

>>1006506
>tfw chinese real estate developers will never let /n/ design a city of a million people

it would be a goddamn paradise

>>1006506
>>1006658
What I'm getting here is that the key to an eco-friendly city is a lot of bike lines, a lot of metro rail, and no zoning laws.

>>1006707
You can have some zoning laws. Like obviously you're not going to want an oil refinery next door to an elementary school, but beyond actually hazardous land uses there's not much reason for segregation beyond the aesthetic sensibilities of uppity Baby Boomers.

>>1006707
>>1006711
You'd need a lot of zoning regulations, just not shitty ones.

The things that /n/ minded people take umbrage to are things like height restrictions in downtowns that result in hell holes like LA.

>no height limits in urban core and places within a 15 minute walkshed of rapid transit
>urban sprawl and development around transit corridors such as commuter rail and streetcar routes
>major streets in the dowtown core are mixed used, with commercial shops on the first 1-8 floors and residential and office space above
>rapid transit serves all the dense, built up areas and light rail and streetcars serve the area around the city, and commuter rail links suburban communities.

>>1006707
bad zoning regulations:
height restrictions
separation of uses
setbacks
open space requirements
parking requirements
affordable housing requirements

>>1006770
i think underground parking requirements for skyscrapers are not a bad thing. I never really understood why cities like houston preferred SURFACE parking lots (not even structured) to underground lots under the buildings themselves

>>1006814
Arent underground parking structures expensive? In some areas they have to build them into the podiums of them condo because of water table issues

>>1006816
Dunno but i live in a major city that gets cold and basically every tall building has at least 4 levels of subterranean parking. Sure there might be some cities where that is difficult, but still i dont get why they think its acceptable to have surface parking in a downtown core. At least structured parking of 8 floors.

>>1006816
Underground parking is the most expensive parking type. There was something on CityLab showing that underground parking adds $50,000 to the sale price of a housing unit.

>>1006770
>>1006814
For most urban centers, it would be better to eliminate all parking requirements in general.

"Ride a bike, you lazy shit" should be a general rule of policy.

>>1006770
aint nothing wrong with height restrictions so long as density is promoted

keeps all parts of the city walkable as opposed to having everyone live uptown and commute downtown

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How do you feel about so-called "lifestyle centers"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center_(retail)

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>>1006867

>>1006873

I've seen them, I can't imagine living there, it would seem so "fake" and tiny to me.

>>1006867
>>1006873
Cancer

>>1006867
better than enclosed malls

still a bit weird

if one party owns all the buildings in one area it doesn't function very well

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toughts on speer's plans?

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>>1007075

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>>1007076

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>>1006867
>>1006873
quartier dix30 especially is cancer, for all non montreal anons its the intersection of a highway that radiates from montreal, and the ring highway of montreal

>>1007075
would have completely gutted the city

>>1007075
>>1007076
>>1007078
>turn berlin into another soulless imperial capital

nice

at least hitler only cared about munich

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>>1007075
for some perspective here is albrecht's plan of berlin in the mid 19th century, which is pretty much how berlin was in hitler's time

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i need an honest answer on why japanese urban planning is so good

>>1007179
Being within walking distance of a train station that can take you anywhere in the country means people don't get anxious form not owning a car.
Also, no parking minimums, and at the same time, drivers must provide proof of parking upon registration, so parking isn't subsidized.

Also also they have very strong property owner rights. If you want to build something on your land and it complies with Japan's fairly tolerant zoning, you build it. You're not going to get held up for three years doing environmental impact studies and dealing with lawsuits while the local government tries to extort payment for parks and schools out of you.

>>1007179
basically japanese people are less entitled than anglos and dont *need* a nuclear family on a double lot with green grass and a nice car that is far enough from urban spaces (poverty, crime, ethnic minorities, immigrants) to feel safe and secluded.

you can fit 4 japanese suburban houses in an american one, and they're all built with mass transit in mind

>>1007184
>poverty, crime, ethnic minorities, immigrants
>things that don't exist in Japan

Okay, that's a bit hyperbolic, but there's a reason suburbs thrive in areas with high crime rates.

>>1007188
Canadian cities are as safe as vermont and people still LOVE commuting an hour each way every day from their suburbs to avoid urban living

>>1007183
japanese people need to prove they have a personal parking spot at home before they can register their car?

>>1007216
In Tokyo, yes. You have to provide proof of either a spot at home or a leased spot somewhere in town.

I like that it's a total inversion of the idea that the city owes homeowners an area of the street on which to store their cars, and that newcomers to the neighborhood should be discouraged because they might overload the free parking.

>>1007218
>live in burbs with parents because broke student
>families have 1-4 cars
>spill out of their driveway/garages
>park right in front of our lawn

pisses me the fuck off that these munters park all day right in front of my house, and it only happened because the assholes petitioned against the by-law that banned people from parking in front of a house unless it's theirs

the worst part: these people could easily just take the comfy and punctual commuter train 5 minutes walking from my street to work downtown that is actually faster than driving, as its what i take to class every fucking day But no, every member of the family over 16 must have a car

>>1007221
You know what you need to do.

>>1005945
Hamline?

>>1007225
>>1005945
Just checked against FB - hello, neighbor! (we probably know each other, there can't be that many people in this town interested in this stuff)

>>1007221
Imagine if they had to pay for that parking - either by renting the street spaces or explicitly setting aside lot space and pouring concrete. They'd probably all take the train and just have a Honda Fit for grocery runs.

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>>1007226
Neat! I rode on the new bike lanes today and they are beautiful. So excited to be able to use the lanes every day instead of fighting with cars trying to go past Thomas Avenue. Also excited for next year when the lanes are extended to Pierce Butler.

>>1007342
Is that the bike lane? The shoulder of the road?
>>1007223
What is that? environmentally friendly coral reefs?
>>1007238
I actually have two neighbours that have ripped up grass on their lawns and poured gravel to store more cars. Cagers are mentally ill. If they had to pay for parking spaces on the street they'd have only as many cars as they could store in their driveways. (usually 2)

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>>1007426
After repaving they re striped the lanes to something like this. They are planning to do something similar for the last half mile of the road but it is narrower so they thought they would need to take both sides of parking. Some homeowners don't have off street parking, and there is senior housing with a large number of caregivers so some were concerned about losing parking spots despite there being plenty on the side streets. The city council decided to expand portions of the road to preserve some parking spots.

End vehicular welfare now.

>>1007584
I'll never understand why roads continue to be designed this way in some countries. Why not have the bike lane next to the sidewalk and have the parked cars as a buffer rather than forcing cyclists into or near the door zone. Also wtf @ trees not being at the edge of the sidewalk. Wasted pedestrian space with that and then the planting strip.

>>1006586
can't wait for the matriarchy t b h

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>>1007612
They have bike lanes in that manner in other parts of the metro but it's not very popular. (Top left picture) There is a serious winter season and when the snow starts to creep from the grass to the street then the bike lane disappears. If the bike lane is inside of traffic as shown there is more space available for cyclists when roads narrow in the winter.

I was a little lazy and didn't represent the grass/trees completely accurately. The space is actually narrower and, as is typical in our region, the trees are placed in the center of the grass. (Top right picture.) 6 feet is plenty of pedestrian space for this area. The space alternates from grass to pavement depending on the building use along the street as you can see in the pictures. A coffee shop uses the side street for their patio space. (bottom picture)

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>>1007652
>>1007584
step your game up, those bike paths are garbage and you're still liable to be run over by a drunk cager

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>>1007081
>quartier dix30 especially is cancer, for all non montreal anons its the intersection of a highway that radiates from montreal, and the ring highway of montreal

To be fare, it does have bike racks and a connection to the bike path system. So there's that.

Although getting there with public transit is a fucking nightmare.

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>>1007799

Is that De Maisonneuve? That's comfy bike path.

>>1007081
BTW, how do you feel about Centre Lava?

I find the lack of a pedestrian path here (despite the walk/don't walk lights) unnerving.

>>1007818
Does the RTL serve dix30? A shuttle between the yellow line terminus and the district is all it really needs it seems.
>>1007823
Yep, I take it every day on my commute. Superbly comfortable path although the SPVM that post up on Greene and give tickets for blowing through stop signs and wearing headphones are dicks.

I've never been to the Centre Laval. I've been to laval twice, once for paintballing and i got a lift there and once for a craigslist trade at montmorency with a guy coming from st-jerome. Really grim place.

>>1007823
>corbusier

lel just caught that, fuck that guy

>>1005930
>look to see what my country is best at
>suicides

sounds right

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Tokyo metropolitan area railway system.

There are dozens of private railway operators in the Tokyo area, which is why you see this huge variety and dizzying map. Thankfully ever since contactless cards, anyone can ride on any railway without buying specific tickets. Just charge your IC card at any railway company's station and you can use it with any railway not just in the Tokyo area but throughout Japan.

>>1006540
Prague is at is is since May 2015 after last extension opening.

>>1007911
i guess it works out because most people live in the suburbs on one of those commuter rail lines and pay those fares plus tokyo subway if they have to transfer once in the city. But it must have been a nightmare for tourists before the fare integration.

>>1007838
That's been Lithuania's national stereotype long before the internet.

Like, if you asked ten year old me about Lithuania, I'd have been all like "isn't that the place with the really high suicide rates?"

>>1007911
This region of 40 million approximately has more daily rail users than Germany with 80 million people.

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>>1006770
>bad zoning regulations:
>height restrictions

'no'

>>1008253
Of course, the population density is more than ten times as much as in Germany and public transportation is much better.

>>1008268
Those modern buildings are unsightly mixed in like that and should have been constructed la defense style high and adjacent to the old city centre and connected via tram or rapid transit

>>1008308
Germany has the highest rail ridership in Western Europe. White people need to check their car privilege.

>>1008268
I'm ok with this

>>1008312
Germany also has the highest population in Western Europe

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>>1008311
Spotty concentrations of office buildings are a good way to keep the city centre alive and "relevant", the actual medieval part just below the castle is already touristville, concert tier crowd during summer and completely abandoned during winter and a large part of that is played by the lack of office spaces.

>>1008431
Actually offices kill street life, they're filled with workers during the day and empty at night. Go to Torontos CBD at night, glass monoliths and nobody around, pretty spooky. The only impact they have on neighbourhoods is transportation and boosting restaurants lunch revenues. I've said this once and I'll say it again, European cities should develop aggressively in places like Canary Wharf, la defense, Moscow city Etc. and make those CBDs and have nightlife and shopping in the historical city centre. The giant glass boxes we have in North America are necessary because of the scale of the economy but they're segregated in the downtown core and there are designated streets with restaurants and clubs and bars in my city, away from the giant office skyscrapers.

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>>1008459
>CBD

Yeah, that the point, have an office building overlooking shops and cafes, so you can work where you live and where you "live", not a CBD that's a nigthmare to commute to, that seems dead and souless during the night and during the day as well.
All the semi CBDs in my city are the crappiest places and I feel pity for the people that have to spend 9 hours a day there.
How about, instead of having your lunch in "cafeteria, floor 19", you can have it in pic related?

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>>1008473
Don't really understand the point of sacrificing commercial space so that workers can go to a nice cafe for lunch... if there are 100k workers heading into a high density office area each day you can be sure that restaurants will pop up in that district to satisfy demands.

Having an old town with shops/nightlife on the lower levels and housing on top is the best bet for a vibrant city centre.

And your point about the CBD feeling dead... that's the entire point of an office! Besides the lunch break, the workers are cooped up inside and don't contribute to street life AT ALL. And besides, I don't expect places to be bustling during the middle of the day on a weekday, that should only happen on the weekend and weekday evenings when everyone is off work.

You come from a small/medium sized european city with rich architectural history, and don't understand that office towers are blights upon humanity, albeit necessary ones. Pic related, no matter how much you think it would, even with its thousands of workers, does not contribute to street life. Having a bunch of overworked suits hastily consume a sandwich from a street vendor in under an hour does not constitute street life.

This is why I advocate separating work and play.

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>>1008531
>This is why I advocate separating work and play.

This is why American CBDs are dead after 5. It's not the presence of offices, or even the concentration of them. It's the segregation of uses that kills street life.

Part of the reason US cities even have so many office towers is that mandated segregation. Zoning only allows high-rise offices in a small part of the city, so land in that area is made artificially expensive due to pent-up demand. To maximize return on investment, developers then have to build as big as they can afford.

Pic related has offices, shops, and residences, and is active throughout the day. You could stack another thirty stories of offices on top of these buildings without adversely affecting street life, but it wouldn't be economical to do so because office demand is already met fairly evenly around Tokyo by mid-height buildings like these clustered around train stations.

The form doesn't much matter for street life beyond the first five floors being inviting. What's important is mixed uses with different time profiles. American CBD office clusters are just one part of our single-use urban ecosystem, alongside cul-de-sac subdivisions and highway strip malls, both of which also see times of day when they're entirely dead.

>>1006873
>>1006867
It's pointless feel-good bullshit for cageniggers to get excited about. Basically just a slightly denser strip mall.

>>1008569
Well, a strip mall is just a small-town main street with one side razed and replaced with a parking desert. A newer design that focuses on pedestrian experience is at least easier to retrofit to something more sensible if mass transit becomes available in the area.

>>1008459
Nobody lives in the financial district, everyone knows that's. Other downtown areas like King East, Queen West, St George etc are all lively during the off hours

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>>1008571
learn the difference- it might save your life!

>>1008534
>This is why American CBDs are dead after 5. It's not the presence of offices, or even the concentration of them. It's the segregation of uses that kills street life.
so much this. mixed use is god tier, it allows people to have all kinds of commerce and services nearby, thereby reducing transportation need and fostering street life. It also allows for a varied transportation network that isn't focused on radial movement (toward center in the morning, towards the burbs in the evening), so that you have a steady and varied offer in public transit.
There's literally no reason not to have mixed use city centers.

>>1008531
This picture is at least 25 years old. Things have changed toronto bro

>>1008531
What if all four of those were combined into one building, like some giant square with a hole in the middle. Now that would be a real monolith

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>>1008534
That's why CBDs shouldn't be the heart of your downtowns. The heart should be pedestrian friendly and have a high concentration of street level shops and restaurants and general leisure. Residential mixed with commercial is more desirable than offices for increasing density.

Offices should be segregated, and built high in a central district with good transport connections to the rest of the metropolitan area, Building extremely high kills street life, but there is a definitive need for super tall office towers in cities with large economies.

The perfect solution is to marry commercial and residential spaces, so as to make them within walking distance, and have the CBD adjacent or close (within 8 miles or so of the city centre)

People commute to work, it is a normal thing, and they can do it quickly with the right rail network. People would much rather walk to their every day shopping and leisure activities.

Notice how your pic isn't in the shade of one of those mega towers around Shinjuku? That's because tall towers kill street life, and they're unavoidable in modern big cities.

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>>1008587
>>1008590
>>1008583
That's my point, the financial district is segregated from true street life, and built densely and high.

It follows the same idea that I propose in urban planning, medium density commerical+housing in the city centre and a very high density segregated office park.

>>1008613
People live in the immediate area. South core, King East, etc and go to jobs in Financial. It's not as bad as it seems

>>1008614
They dont live inside the dominion centre which is my point. The other anon is suggesting people living inside the same buildings people worked in.

>>1008613
Is it so wrong that I want to eliminate all zoning laws other than the ones for practical things like pollution, noise, and electricity?

Let the free market handle it, brah.

>>1008584
Replace the parking lot on the left with more buildings and you have something similar in form and function to the main street.

Of course the buildings are single-story and single-use, and they're only built to last 10-20 years, but my point is that you can create a functional pedestrian space even with shit buildings, and it's easier to start with a mostly-walkable form and gradually redevelop than it is to totally tear down and transform the average suburban drive-through hell.

>>1008617
I feel like that is extreme. You likely haven't thought of how zoning helps traffic, parking, real property values, and other important things that are affected by how land is used.
I understand that you wish there would be more places where residential units could be out on top of ground-level commercial spaces so you could live where you want to play (if you're into the city life), but if people really wanted to build areas to be like this in a way that wouldn't indirectly fuck other stuff, then it is possible to get it rezoned.
Eliminating zoning and leaving the development and layout of cities and towns up to the whims and wishes of whoever owns the little plots of land would surely lead to a clusterfuck in many ways.

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>>1008611
>tall towers kill street life

No, urban renewal-style megablock monoliths kill street life by being built solely for commuters and concentrating a single land use. The barren plazas cities required for building permits back in the 70s and 80s don't help either. Height isn't even noticeable from the street level if the upper tower is set back a bit, like the Empire State Building, with the lower floors abutting the street.

Pic related: Shinjuku after the offices close. So barren and devoid of life.

>>1008630
>Eliminating zoning and leaving the development and layout of cities and towns up to the whims and wishes of whoever owns the little plots of land would surely lead to a clusterfuck in many ways.

I don't know, we seemed to manage pretty well from the dawn of agriculture through about 1930, while the majority of post-zoning construction in America is simultaneously hostile and bland.

>it is possible to get it rezoned

This mentality, of using overly strict zoning and having developers come before the city for a variance every time they want to build something, amounts to extortion and exclusion. It means the zoning laws don't really exist, and aren't necessary, except as a means to extract concessions from developers in the form of impact fees, privately-financed parks, and terribly urban corporate plazas. Meanwhile, small-scale developers who might just want to offset the cost of their home or business by renting out a few extra units are screwed because they don't have the resources to navigate the arbitrary roadblocks thrown up against anything that isn't single-family homes and strip malls.

>>1008631
youre purposefully ignoring what im saying.

thats a fucking pedestrian street with shops seeming to occupy the majority if not the entirety of those buildings. Show me a picture of the ground area around one of those giant towers and tell me theres a bustling street life after work is done.

The empire state building is not even mixed used so i dont know why youre bringing it up. its a monolith and the reason people go there is because its a tourist destination

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>>1008638
You're likewise not getting what I'm saying. The height of a building is not the determinant of its effect on the pedestrian life of the street. What matters is how it relates to the street at the pedestrian level. I mention the Empire State Building because it's a place I've been and you're wrong, it is mixed use - it has retail shops and restaurants on the ground floor. From the sidewalk you can't even tell it's taller than six stories unless you step way back and look straight up, and then the locals mock you for it.

Contrast that to the towers-in-parking-lots here >>1008531, which have no relationship to the street and seem designed to stand in spite of the city rather than integrate with it.

On that subject, pic related is another example from places I've experienced personally - One Shell Square, the tallest building in New Orleans. That's it on the left. On the right is the St. Charles Hilton, built in the 1920s. Look at how you can't tell how tall either of them are from the street level, but the design of the 1970s office tower still destroys what would otherwise be a nice pedestrian-friendly street. It's a goddamn bunker. Meanwhile the Hilton relates to the street with human-scale features, presenting arches, awnings, windows, and entrances, which create visual interest and integrate it with the surroundings. In addition, there is a cornice and visual break between the lower street facade of the Hilton and its upper elevation, whereas what you see from Shell continues straight up to a vanishing point in the sky.

tl;dr it's not shadows or offices that repel pedestrians, it's spooky, human-hostile design and use segregation.

>>1008638
Addendum: the Shinjuku pic was to emphasize that the aforementioned office towers do not, in fact, suck all the life out of the district after dark, because there are still things in walking distance that are not office towers. It's also not a pedestrian street, or at least not exclusively; that's just what a lot of Japanese streets look like. Drivers avoid narrow streets with lots of pedestrians unless they're making a delivery or something.

I couldn't find a pic of your pictured Shinjuku buildings from the street, but they may well be quite forbidding at ground level. That's a case for better design, however, not for rounding them up and shoving them off into a corporate ghetto à La Defense.

>>1007584
WTF happened to Streetmix on Google Chrome? It won't let me add in street elements anymore.

>>1008571
I am endlessly fascinated by this and the possibility for infill development. What does /n/ think about a development here?

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5380315,-122.2814238,3a,90y,85.26h,83.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd5cf7U8-aodo4aSg42vjNw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I imagine replacing the parking with another building, creating a nice narrow corridor such as >>1007179

>>1008630
>parking

eliminate parking requirements and let cagers pay their own way for once in history

>>1008685
That's the least offensive of all the surface lots around the station, and a 30-foot deep building serves little purpose. Redevelop as a small park if anything. Everything else around the station, especially the Safeway lot and SW corner, has a much better chance of being platted with inner streets and infill.

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>>1007179
The single-family attached zoning classification must be extremely relaxed to approach the decades of organic development in Japan. Philadelphia, whose planners choose to build upon its legacy of rowhouses, and Houston, with uniquely liberal quasi-zoning, have done the most to facilitate this.

>>1008708
What I was more going for was shops/destinations opening up in what "were" residential areas (because no zoning--why the fuck not?) and people coming to park all up and down a street in front of houses in what used to be a street that only residents used?

Cagers, or people in general, aren't going to "pay their own way" for the public amenities and infrastructure we take for granted. That's why governments are there to attempt that work that no private party will take responsibility for.

I'm not against the people in this thread that think that residence units above the ground level in a city are acceptable; I am against the people who think "fuck all zoning--it's just a scam and people should be able to do whatever they want." That's when Walmart moves into the lot adjacent to your backyard and Super Target across the street from your driveway because Residential/Commercial/Business/Industrial/etc zones wouldn't mean a thing anymore.

>>1008584
Pretentious Quebecois Detected.

>>1008719
>That's when Walmart moves into the lot adjacent to your backyard and Super Target across the street from your driveway

I don't live in suburbia

>>1007226
Half the board is from MSP bud

>>1008741
>liking and wishing to preserve main street culture makes me pretentious

ah yes, i bet you think the penn station fags are pretentious hippies as well.

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>>1005913
Map showing rent average rent prices

Most people have probably seen it, but I think it really betrays a lot about US human geography

>>1008719
When in American history has a Walmart ever opened up with insufficient parking? Even without minimums they'd overbuild.

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I remember a few GIS posts in the last general.

What would be some interesting GIS maps or projects to do independently so I can make some sort of portfolio? Bonus points for TIGER / transportation related projects. I'm worried my skills are mostly just taking data and displaying it in a pretty manner without real analysis or independent thought. Looking to go beyond school assignment stuff. Any interesting things you have done before?

>>1006770
setbacks and parking requirements are literal autism mandated by sheltered subarbanites that have never lived in a city

>>1006814
there shouldn't be parking requirements

the market should decide by itself the optimum amount of free parking spaces in a modern city = 0

>>1008569
>cageniggers

nice, i need to come here more often

>>1009151
Yeah i mean the cagers should be lined up in front of a wall and shot but they control congress so what are you gonna do

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>>1008585
the only problem I have with modern mixed use is that the design for these new mixed-use buildings are atrocious and in most cases extremely cheap looking (also are built extremely cheap). The apartment buildings are massive developments now, in comparison to separated smaller mixed use buildings pre-1950s America.

Take your average late-1800's main street Italianate architecture 3-story mixed use building. Now those are beautiful. They were built to last, and are probably more sustainable since they were built to not house air conditioning units.

This ended up being a bigger critique of modern architecture, but I really hate how quick and cheap new "mixed use" development is popping up in cities that we will regret 20 years down the road.

>>1009160
>The apartment buildings are massive developments now

i suspect it has to do with barriers to entry for smaller developers

>>1009160
We will make Art Deco great again!

>>1009010
I work in utility GIS and I was in the last thread. I do GIS all day but it's not really transport related (mostly just gas pipelines) although that is a good topic.

I'm preparing to start a side project on mapping overlapping wild feline and canid species distributions. I'm using data from the IUCN Red List and hoping to do some kind of web integration.

>>1008902
anyone know what the hell's going on with North Dakota?

>>1009292
That's probably from the Bakken formation oil boom that peaked around 2012.

I was hearing people paying thousands of dollars a month to live in cramped man camp trailers and prefabs just to work in the oil fields.

>>1009160
It's progress in the right direction. Mixed-use buildings on gridded streets leave behind a functional urban space, even if they have to be torn down and rebuilt every 20 years. All that institutional investment has to go somewhere, so better mass-manufactured midrise townhouses than yet another suburban strip center.

>>1009264
i literally cried tears of joy when i found out a new 'scraper going up in manhattan was using art deco style and wasnt gonna be another 432 park monstrosity

>>1009294
>paying thousands of dollars a month to live in cramped man camp trailers and prefabs just to work in the oil fields.

if you accept contracts in these type of environments that dont provide lodging and food youre basically retarded

>>1009470
fucking sauce nao
im already hard,

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>>1009476
render with other new projects going up on the left and on the right a neat retro render of the building, its honestly beautiful

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN253RLDdM8

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>>1009483
fucking noice

>>1009472
When you make a 6 figure salary paying $1,000/month isn't that big of a deal. But that maps old, housing caught up with demand for the most part and now that the oil market is in the trash the demand for housing is also down (aka empty apartments and hotels). Source: I live in Bismarck

>>1009489
where i live 1000 per month is lower end for an apt

>>1009472
It's a little more complicated than that to say the least. People get pretty desperate for work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_50-lKvqF4

The oil rigs were so desperate for drivers they hired people next day to be drivers who had been in prison for DUI's and DWI's paying well above average and they drove like mad to make deliveries ahead of schedule.

Luckily as >>1009489 said it's pretty much blown over to the relief of the locals, besides this whole pipeline debacle lately.

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What do you guys think?

>>1009680
>mfw I inadvertently turn my city into Los Angeles with my relentless focus on highways

But collector roads are pretty cool.

>>1009680
I love the game but I always feel lost when I start.

ImperialJedi is the best person I've seen at it. I watch a lot of his videos and his streams are chill as fuck with like 10 people.

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>>1009720
this, until I've got 5k people in my town and a plan in mind I feel really directionless. Getting past the initial planning is by far the hardest part for me.

>>1009680
>>1009691
The game is amazing because your own play style determines how the city ends up. You can use bicycles (amsterdam), cars (LA), trains (tokyo) and create the city in your own image.

With the mods its a really great successor to SC4.

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>>1009742
These shots are from my US Eastern Seaboard inspired major city.

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>>1009744

I'm now working on a city I called BorisVille, its on the Amsterdam map and the only transport options available to its citizens are bicycles (extensive bike path route around the city), Routemasters and flexity trams.

>>1009746
How do you handle freight?
Whenever I try to make a bike-and-transit based city the whole thing breaks down from trucks needing to get everywhere for deliveries.

>>1009749
Heh, funny you ask, I'm at 30k right now and the few roads that exist in my city that arent zonable ped or bike paths are in the red. What I've done so far is just place like 4 cargo train stations so all the delivery trucks don't use the same road

>>1009749
One strategy I have seen is force trucks to use other forms of transport such as ship and rail by forbidding them from using some of the main highways of the city.

If they try to get from one end of the city to the other they instead will go back, get on the train or boat, then take that around the city to the other station and then on to their destination. That would leave the main arteries as cars only.

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who here /foamer/?

>>1005930
How can a country be best at men?

>>1009749
>>1009796
>>1009753
From the pov of real city building how could this work? DC to end point freight has to move by truck.

I work at a chain retail pet store and we get 4 half trucks a week, 1 small frozen shipment, and probably 2 small deliveries to our on site vet. We don't work with anything super perishable like the grocery store or fast food joints in our shopping center. I can't imagine the level of freight being shifted by the home depot on a weekly basis. Heck I'm not even considering waste management.

Am I missing something crucial or is it just that the simulation smooths over the details?

>>1009680
>tfw citybound probably will never be finished and anzlem is just teasing us

>>1009819
What does that mean?

>>1009875
>>1009819
Nvm I googled it
I thought it was some obscure cities skylines thing at first

>>1009864
Freight comes into the city in either trucks from the outside highway connections, cargo ships to the port or freight trains to the freight train stations,

Once there it converts into delivery vans and one van is needed to supply a single business for about 1-2 days in game (I use the rush hour mod and sims dont shop at night, they're asleep or at leisure.)

>>1009680
Transport fever might not disappoint like its predecessor so looking forward to that

>>1009894
I just looked it up. Seems like a game that would have come out a decade ago. Why will it be better than CS? I'm skeptical

>>1009864
In a real city: Allow cargo trucks access to the streets, possibly time-limited. Or just build shared-use streets so narrow that only delivery drivers bother to drive on them.

Also something like Home Depot is basically a warehouse already; big box stores like that are dependent on Interstate links and would tend to build next to exits, like they already do.

>>1009986
I don't think it will.

It will be better than train fever and that was the goal. That game was a broken mess.

It's also more people oriented. The people in the last game would kind of build the city themselves around your transport infrastructure rather than building everything yourself.

Accounting for mods though, it will be very hard to beat CS outright.

>>1006376
the person who made this is an idiot for other reasons.What the fuck is the order here?

>>1010622
are you serious? The cities are grouped by country and the countries are sorted alphabetically and the cities are ordered alphabetically within their country groups

were you asleep for all of elementary school or what?

>>1010635
lol I just looked at it for a few seconds. That's a confusing way to do it with such small captions

>>1009160
>late-1800's main street Italianate architecture 3-story mixed use building
example pls

>Barcelona, Paris and Berlin's Urban visionaires were all alive at the same time
how does this make you feel?

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>>1010839
I literally dropped the cursor on a random spot in the older part of the city and got this. Barcelona is full of these kinds of buildings, usually built between 1880 and 1940. This one isn't even particularly beautiful. These buildings were often designed by the municipal architect as more or less standard mixed-use buildings. Many had another floor added in the 50's-60's.

Sorry for shit pic, you can see the address in the top left corner, just check it out for yourself.

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>>1010860
>>1010839
Here's a particularly interesting example, the building on the left is from 1881 as you can see from the inscription (the inscription on the right says 1976 which is the year in which it was restored). This building isn't even a sight nor a landmark.

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>>1010853
>Barcelona
>Urban visionary
meh. The grid concept had been invented ages ago, and in fact it was considered to be somewhat tacky and not appropriate for a European city, it was seen as something more fitting of colonial cities. Cerdà merely added the cut off corners to allow trams to turn (this is probably the most visionary thing for a project dating from 1859, when steam trams were still a few years away, and Barcelona still had no horse trams). The space left by cutting off those corners is nowadays being utterly wasted as parking space, instead of using it for more civic uses like small squares at intersections, or café terraces.

Here's a fun fact: Barcelona didn't actually care for Ildefons Cerda's idea. They wanted some other dude's project, which was a more radial concept emulating Paris' boulevards. In the end, and as usual, the King in Madrid didn't give a flying fuck about what people in Barcelona wanted and went with Cerdà's project against the will of the mayor and citizens of Barcelona. Likely to not allow Barcelona to have a city planning that was more proper of "royal" cities like Madrid and Paris, and instead forcing a colonial-style grid. In the long run of course this ended up being beneficial for Barcelona, since nowadays the regular grid patterns have been shown to be more effective and popular than the radial boulevard patterns.

Curiously, transport planning has for a long time disregarded the potentials of the grid, and instead has tried to impose a radial pattern irradiating from the old town over this grid. It wasn't until 1969 when Metro line 5 (the blue one) opened its central section, which was the first time ever that there was a "horizontal" rail transit line (ie not a bus) in the upper part of town. In pic related you can see how the subway mostly follows this radial pattern.

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>>1010860
>>1010862
Ah I see what you mean. What many of these have are white stone in the bottom and then color for the upper floors, that's pretty aestethic

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>>1010870
What I see is essentially
>mostly stone construction
>some toned-down ornamentation (like horizontal lines, some ornaments at balconies, windows or between floors)
>sometimes a bit of color on the upper floors combined with the stone

Pic related are "modern housings" from around 1929. I think mediterranean cities used color more sparingly so that houses wouldn't get so hot.

>>1010869
I didn't really mean visionary, sorry. I was looking for a word for someone who did a great deal in an area.

Haussmann probably tought Cerda's idea very disgusting, seen as how he avoided squaring blocks as much as possible, creating thus the labyrinth that paris looks from the ground. Wonder if he ever said anything about barcelona

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>>1010870
first floor is always taller than the rest. There may be a lower last floor.

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meme pic

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Stop with your bike threads and come discuss the real issues and that is how 2 make pretty citis

>>1010901
What I've got so far

>very little zoning
>no parking requirements
>lots of bike lanes and metros
>sterilize the poor
>encourage mixed use zoning so that areas of town remain constantly active

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>>1010905
>>very little zoning
but a height restrictions are too necessary

also maybe make zoning a lil more complex like japan (basically no homogeneously residential or commercial zones)

>>1010927
If it was up to me, not only would there be no restrictions on height whatsoever, but there would be financial incentives to make buildings as tall as possible.

This is purely because I like tall buildings.

>>1010931
but the density would be ridiculous, and that would imply expenses with sewage

it would be ugly as shit, as well as having zero sunlight on the streets

>>1010946
That's my dream, yes.

Then I'd cap the number of cars, sell the permits to the highest bidder, and enjoy a city that uses walking for 95% of its transportation.

In reality, simple economics would probably moderate things somewhat.

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>>1010948
Well

There is new york already, but their tall buidings don't block the sun because there is a setback, and the facades are verg much lower. The density is too fucking ridiculous though, especially for mobility

subways are always full

>>1010951
See, my goal is to see how high I can get population density.

For no other reason than pure curiosity.

Also, logic dictates that the more people are in your general area, the higher the chance that there'll be stores, hospitals, jobs, and so on within walking distance.

>>1010953
oh boy, that would not be comfy. Just swarms and swarms of people walking at all times, fun to look at but probably not be a part of.

Have you heard of the kowloon walled city?

>>1010956
My goal would be to use a hideous amount of elevated walkways and other pedestrian infrastructure to keep people off of the sidewalks.

>>1010958
I'm now hoping some madman will do this just cause it sounds interesting

Have you tried contacting the governor of hong kong? They have some crazy density and maybe they'll like the idea

Do people like Le Corbusier exist today? Master architects shaping the urban futures of major cities? I wish I could have that position... and make livable cities, not tower in the park bullshit and freeways right into your bedroom

>>1010969
Corbs was a terrible architect if you want to make architecture built on the human scale. His aesthetic was fine but his designs were just steaming piles of shit.

>>1010970
Well corbusier seemed to forget that cities aren't art and are meant to be lived in, not looked at. He treated maps like his canvas and painted them with his vision of what urban spaces should be, without so much as exploring the neighbourhood on foot.

He's a fucking asshole that ruined a lot of cities or set them back decades. Pretty annoying his legacy is so rosy.

>>1010960
>>1010958


https://rumorsontheinternets.org/2010/10/14/magnasanti-the-largest-and-most-terrifying-simcity/

>>1010969
>Master architects shaping the urban futures of major cities

not sure having this is a good idea in the first place

cities are organic, emergent things

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>>1010905
>>1010956
I think you people are hitting on an important issue, which is dealing with very high densities. New York is an extreme example, and like that anon says, the subway is always full. But here's something to keep in mind, surface space in NY is grossly wasted. When you have a dense city it's simply retarded to have streets with 4, 5 or even more lanes just for cars, while sidewalks are completely stuffed with people. It's amazing how the car lobbies have brainwashed us into accepting that such a brutal inefficiency it's a reasonable way of handling transportation.

I think the key in talking dense cities nowadays is surface transportation.
Large cities like Paris, London or New York are examples of large, dense cities with good Metro/Subway/Tube coverage, yet this coverage is still insufficient seeing the enormous density. Building additional rapid transit lines is usually complicated, expensive or even impossible. It also requires deep tunneling which makes metro use less practical.
However, building surface rapid transit (ie modern trams) costs a fraction of a subway, yet offers between 30 and 50% of a subway's capacity. For every two or three tram lines you've added the capacity of a subway line, all the while having more varied itineraries and coverage.

Essentially this is just doing the same thing that buses are doing in these cities but taken to another level. In turn, this allows to reduce road space, and add pedestrian space. It makes no sense that if a subway is saturated, the additional transport offer is just buses, jumping over the intermediate step of trams. There's no reasonable explanation for large cities investing in new rapid transit lines but not light rail systems. When they start doing BRTs it gets completely ridiculous (not the case of the examples I mentioned). The only explanation for this is the pressure of automobile/bus lobbies trying to force the use of inefficient transportation.

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>>1011053
cont'd

In medium sized cities the issue is different, and usually boils down to an impossibility of offering the same level of rapid transit coverage that a large city can achieve. This can be clearly seen in the failure of the german Stadtbahn concept, which ended up being impossible to fully convert into true subways, but instead left those cities with a hybrid that neither offers full subway capacity in the tunnel sections (thus not achieving the tunnel's full capacity), and complicates operation in the surface sections.

Despite maybe having similar densities, the smaller size translates to lower demand for transportation even in proportion to density. That means subway systems will be limited in their coverage, since they can only be justified in the most densely used corridors. In this situation complementary tram systems make even more sense, not just for capacity, but for offering a reasonably good service over the whole city, instead of having a few subway lines which offer excellent service, and everyone who doesn't have a good subway connection has to use buses which offer terrible service.

Examples of this scheme are Vienna, which is an excellent example of trams and subways complementing each other, also Berlin although it's a strange case because of the east-west differences, Milan also has a small-sized subway complemented by a large tram network, Amsterdam, and a few others. Notice how these usually have 1st gen tram systems. Again, there's no objective reason not to emulate the metro+tram scheme, and I can only conclude that it's been the pressure from lobbygroups that have prevented this scheme becoming more popular.

>>1011057
>>1011053
tl;dr
>if subways aren't enough in large cities, road space should be dedicated to high-capacity transit rather than cars
>in medium cities it's best to mix trams and subways
>transit systems with trams at their center, be it with or without subways, are the way of the future.
>trams haven't had more prominence in modern transit planning only because auto-related interest do all they can to preserve road space for cars

>>1011057
>>1011053
good posts

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What do you think about hilly cities

I live in one and it sucks. I've visited flat cities and they rule. How does one make good cities on hills?

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>>1011110
And keep in mind that on hilly abominations you can't ride a bycicle to most places

>>1011111
>>1011110
low gear is great for hills.

i live in florida and its flat flat flat flat. so flat we dont even have basements.. flat like all the houses are one story. flat like 2d plane flat....and its boring as heck. everything looks the same. strip mall, suburbs, liquor store...not even any trolleys and few buses. few bikes as well, mostly just roads and cages. All the houses look the same too, shitty hollow walls. Nothings made of stone. Maybe my city just sucks, but I remember living in a hilly city in Pennsylvania where everyhting was unique looking. It was forced to be that way through the terrain. But when everything is flat like here....idk. Maybe southerners have 0 imagination when given a blank slate.

Flat sucks.

>>1011115
You forgot to mention how it's humid as fuck and it's like having a constant summer every fucking year.
This is just in Miami, I'd hate to see what it's like in the Keys.

>>1011115
That has nothing to do with it being flat and everything to do with your shitty community being planned around the automobile.

The netherlands is dense and flat and perfect for cycling

>>1011122
well our land was taken as an afterthought from the "indians" and now rich old whites, latin refugees, black slave ancestors live here...not many bright bulbs...I hope this place goes underwater first when the cages cause the arctic to melt. maybe these idiots will realize they cant just rebuild this time and have to find more efficient sustainable methods of living...

hell all the people i know here have a retarded sense of "life" since they buy a car and apartment for work (walmart or a cubicle), then spend 20 years paying off their car and tv, and get into so many accidents their insurance goes up, then a hurricane fucks their shit, and since they choose cheap insurance that doesnt cover all "acts of god" their pay to fix their flooded homes out of pocket. its a god damn financial trap, dont get me started on how money is a stupid artificial numbers game...but like other than working all day, they just fucking play Call of Duty or shoot guns in their backyard??!? Absolutely no education, no long term goals...no anything. The infrastructure isnt conductive to quality life for citizens, and the citizens arent producing anything for the city either...

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>>1011053
>>1011057
What's your take on the brooklyn tram?

NYC is testing out your philosophy...

>>1011131
>amerifat refugee

move to the civilized world... anon

>>1011325
>he lives in a "city" where you can't keep an anti-materiel rifle next to your bed in case of clowns

>>1011053
>>1011057
trams are nice but they don't work well if they have to mingle with cars

they need separate right of way

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>>1011320
It's an interesting project. I think the route chosen has potential, but if they don't go full ROW and large units (+30m, preferrably around 60m) it will be pointless. Also I hear projects like these end up being very expensive in New York for some reason. Then again that would be apply even more to a new subway line.

>>1011384
obv. for 2nd gen systems there's no excuse for any significant street running, with 1st gen systems it's sometimes inevitable but should be reduced to a minimum.
2nd gen systems also have the possible advantage of allowing longer trams with large capacity. When I said a tram has up to 50% of a metro's capacity this is only the case for a system allowing for +50m long units.

>>1011384
YES!

t. Saint Paul resident

Also fucking Republicans anf shooting down the bonding bill because they pretend that outstate Minnesota matters. Give me my SWLRT and Bottineau Line please! Also one to the northern and eastern suburbs too

>>1010927
Height restrictions can work but they need to be adaptive. Japan has height restrictions based on fronting street width, which works well enough.

You could also peg building height to the neighborhood average to ensure things don't get out of scale, but still allow growth in density to meet market demand over time.

A straight static height restriction results in cities like Washington DC or the major city centers in India, where any significant population growth creates a housing crisis.

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>>1011499
Should the Green Line have gone down the I-94 trench?

>>1011620
Putting any kind of transit on freeways is a retarded idea.

>>1011493
Why do you see potential in the route? The G train is currently the only cross town rapid transit offered in Brooklyn and it has low patronage and the MTA treats it like shit. (service cuts, oldest rolling stock, shorter trains, lower frequency)

I feel like increasing ridership on the G train, improving service on the line and perhaps ameliorating the feeder busses that interact with the line would be a higher priority than a non ROW exclusive light trail project along the water front.

From personal experience, riding the G train from downtown brooklyn to long island city isn't that short of a ride and it would be way longer on a tram or light rail. It wouldn't surprise me if the tram took 2 hours to complete its route, longer with street running.

>>1011628
Ha you should see Los Angeles metro

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>>1011629
I'm not that familiar with the New York subway, from the map it would seem like there's a lack of north-south lines in the Brooklyn and Queens area, however if demand is nevertheless so low as you say then indeed it makes little sense.

In any case I'm more inclined towards building from the inside out, and not the other way around, as in start with the most central portion of any new line or system, and then progressively expand towards the outskirts. Obviously this would mean something more than the "2-mile streetcar loop around gentrified downtown".
Imagine for example a streetcar line right down 5th ave.
>popular street
>no line running along it
>parallel lines are all at capacity

I think the most common fuckups with trams are the aforementioned gentrified-downtown-loop and the line going from nowhere to nowhere.
2nd gen trams should be conceived just like 1st gen were, either as a radial, crosstown or circular lines. Radial and crosstown can possibly run all the way to the innermost burbs, which is a common use for 2nd gen systems in medium cities. With full ROW commercial speeds can be very similar to full subways.

>>1011641
5th Ave is not a transit desert. The 2nd Av subway will relieve more riders from the Lex than a 5th Av trolley ever could. As a rule of thumb, the best tram corridors are 1) the busiest bus routes, and 2) are routes where subways are not straightforward to build or extend. Fordham Road in the Bronx and Main St/Kissena Blvd in Queens fit these criteria in New York.

https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2016/07/20/what-are-the-strong-tramway-corridors/

>>1011655
>hurr we don't need a tram we'll build another subway
you mean that line they've been talking about for like a century without anything getting ever done?
This mentality of yours is exactly the problem. By your logic there's no point in having buses within Manhattan either, just build more subway lines, right? Dumbass.
It's not about 5th ave being a transit desert, you're obviously missing the whole point, which is that demand nevertheless exceeds the offer in that area (hence why there's buses despite there being the subway).

>>1011672
>without anything getting ever done
First phase is literally getting completed by the end of this year. Later phases to downtown are inevitably getting built as the project has the #1 ridership potential in the US. In fact outside the 1st/2nd Av bus lines in Manhattan, the buses there are used far less than the subway. All the other top-ridership bus lines are in the outer boroughs.

>>1011620
No. Should've crossed the river on the bike path bridge north of Washington and then through that right of way through saint Anthony park and then used the right of way along pierce Butler, either going into downtown on como or crossing 35E and coming in from the east. Rezone all the industrial areas along the route. It would've been cheaper and there wouldn't be a single stoplight to contend with.

Also would've been right out my back yard which would be nice.

>>1011110
>What do you think about hilly cities
Wouldn't live anywhere else. Flat places feel strange.

>>1011655
>Main St/Kissena Blvd in Queens fit these criteria in New York.

bump

Flushing/main street the terminus of the 7 line is the 12th busiest station system wide and the busiest one outside of manhattan. its crazy how many buses feed into it

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>>1011873
That plan would be good as a quick route from Downtown to Downtown but I don't think that is what the goal of the Green Line was or should have been. People have it confused with replacing the 94 bus route but I think the Green Line better serves as a connector for residents clustered around University Avenue. A balance between speed between downtowns and serving the local populace needed to be struck otherwise you'd have a situation similar to Rondo where the transportation only nominally serves the populace and is mostly used by others.
I don't that route has the density needed for that sort of investment and the industrial area is better suited to be just that. It isn't like the Midtown Greenway where the industry had become more of a nuisance and isolated but rather the areas have great connections to interstates and railroads without being too much of a pest to neighbors.

I wish we could have had more grade separation and fewer stoplights. I feel like I always get stuck at Cretin/Vandalia and around 280


I hear those railroad tracks when I sit outside my apartment and my furniture frequently shakes from the trains....

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>>1011952
>>1011620
>>1011499

MSP GET OFF MY BOARD REEEEEE

>>1011952
Holy shit you live right by me! That picture was taken on transfer road, and my house is right by the water tower in the background! You're also very close to the model train museum in that picture.

Maybe what you say is true. Perhaps the line could have turned south under that bridge and through the Ayd Mill road corridor. Whatever, I just don't like that it's a street car.

Do you think the GL has too many stations? After SWLRT and Bottineau, where should they build lines?

I think one to Roseville and then White Bear along Owaso Blvd would be cool. Also one to WSP, Inver Grove and Cottage Grove. Also one through ESP to Woodbury.

I also dream of HSR or commuter rail to St. Cloud, Stillwater, Northfield, Duluth and Rochester

>>1011975
Why? This is pretty much our regional board. I think you need to get out.

>>1011979
whats with the twin cities and the high concentration of /n/ browsing foamers?

>>1011987
Statistical anomaly I think is most likely (small sample size problem). I can't imagine why our city would be more attractive to the type of people who browse this board.

>>1011988
I feel like the midwest has a big trainspotting culture for whatever reason

>>1011990
A land built by industry where there's nothing else to fucking do lol. Also Minnesota has a very strong regional identity so folks might be more willing to mention it idk

Okay excluding costs for a minute, what are the major downsides of an underground metro in mid-to-large sized cities?

Do trams serve any obvious advantage over them besides cost as well?

>>1011993
You have to go down stairs to get them? It's harder to change your routes? Could fuck with your ground?

Idk man but subways are comparatively really expensive and that's it mostly. Obviously trams use more space etc

>>1011993
Having to walk to the surface can add an extra 2 minutes to your commute. Other than that they're the ultimate form of mass transportation really.

-highest capacity (could run 14 car bi-level trainsets with a headway of 2 minutes if you wished)
--fast
-zero priority delays unless they share tracks
-nearly zero damage to existing surface infrastructure, station entrances can be integrated into existing buildings.

they're just expensive

>>1011993
literally nothing, build them fucking tunnels

>>1011110
How hilly and how big are we talking?
I live in a city where a range of hills separates the central and northern districts from the southern ones. There is a mountain pass which is built up with a highway, a main street, a tram line, a major railway and industrial areas. It's quite alright to be honest

>>1011996
>>1011993
I know that other anon said "excluding cost", but in proportion to cost, a tram can actually have more capacity, since with the same money you could build 3 or 4 lines, which may add up more capacity than a subway line, although spread over a larger area.

>>1012064
That's why subways are best used in the most travelled corridor of your city, with passengers per hour exceeding the capabilities of a tram. Trams and buses should feed into and complement a rapid transit system

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>>1011978
I'm conflicted about the Gold Line. On the one hand I'm a huge Saint Paul homer but there just isn't as much activity in the East metro as the West. I think one person interviewed in an article I read had a point: Why would the suburban commuters who have a one seat express ride from Woodbury/Oakdale/Maplewood to Downtown want to have in between stops. I think improving transit for transit-dependent communities is wonderful but I wonder if improving a bus line that goes through the east side rather than making a new line with only a few city stops would be a better investment.

I would love to see a West Seventh LRT going from the Mall of America to Downtown Saint Paul via the airport with the possiblity of expanding it through the east side to the Maplewood Mall. Jesse Ventura almost made the Riverview Corridor our first major busway project. Not sure if going through Highland Village and the old Twin Cities Assemble Plant site is feasible but imaging a dense newly built dense urban village centred around a LRT stop and transit center makes me salivate.

Picture is during Green Line construction and the streetcar tracks they had to tear up.

>>1012193
Whats up with the Northstar line man? When i looked it up i was shocked to find out it had less 4 thousand people riding it a day. Thats literally 2 full trainsets ahaha

There are bus lines in my city that have 30k ridership.

>>1012302
When it was designed it was supposed to have a major traffic generating terminus in St. Cloud. Congestion on Highway 10 and Interstate 94 was also very heavy along the corridor. Well legislators dragged their feed and cut funding so the line stop short of St. Cloud. Add to that lane expansion projects on Hwy-10 and I-94 finished right as the commuter rail opened. The reduced congestion led to fewer people wanting to take the train. Other issues Northstar has had include sharing the tracks with freight traffic. The Bakken oil fields led to a wild increase in freight traffic moving through the corridor which is single track in places. BNSF gives "their" trains (the conductors on Northstar are actually BNSF employees) priority which led to unacceptable delays for commuters so there was a big mistrust of using the train even if they had previously given it a try.

I think the Dan Patch corridor to Northfield would have been a better first try for commuter rail in the Twin Cities. Wish I knew why the legislature decided to enact a study ban.

>>1005930
>ireland
>quality of life
Really?

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>>1012309

>cut funding so it attracts a fraction of as many passengers
>provided funding for competing transit projects (more roadspace= less transit users)
>brakken oil fields potential known in 07 or earlier, north star opened in 09 (should have prompted a decision to include 2 tracks the entire route or make a priority compromise with BNSF like north star having priority in peak direction at peak hours for instance)
>immediately mothball the idea of commuter rail expansion with a study ban


Fucking politicians i tell ya. What you're describing sounds so bad that I believe it might have been concocted to mothball the idea of commuter rail indefinitely.

i hope that one day you will know the feel of pic related, i know your metro area has it in it

>>1006586
You missed
>Cuba
>Doctors

>>1011993
Major downside: if you live in a flood prone area (increasingly common due to economic factors and global warming) your primary transit infrastructure gets fucked over and needs to be basically rebuilt every ten years or so.

t. New Orleans

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I just wanted to post this Walgreen's here because goddamn, that is the finest looking new-construction franchise store I've ever seen.

Of course, the entrance at the parking lot neglects both the cross street and the expectation set up by the facade, and the suggestion of a second story just points out how wasteful the high warehouse ceiling actually is, but all things considered these are acceptable compromises compared to the normal concrete box in a parking moat.

>>1007823
>>1007835

I live in Laval and it's a nightmare everyday.
A city literally built by and for cageniggers, impossible to walk anywhere and the public transit is a disaster.

The entire (((city))) is trying to be a "lifestyle center" a completely sterile, lifeless desert for consumers
Tuck me in, let me die.

>>1012626
Like all of the banks in my areas try for neoclassical looking exteriors.

>>1012628
Banks are kind of an exception, because somehow Greek Revival style implies wealth and stability. It's less a style than a theme, in the same way that Wendy's kind of owns the mass-produced Second Empire style.

Even so, how many of those banks built recently actually front the street at the sidewalk rather than hiding behind a major setback?

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>>1012332
I can't imagine any situation where I would want to travel to the suburbs and spend time among cagers and breeders.

>>1012684
some of the towns those lines go to are actually kinda old and have historic cores even if you can walk across them in a matter of minutes

the purple line goes to a nice mountain with pretty sweet hiking trails

>>1012626
This looks like the big box pharmacy they built on the main street in my little town.

It was the first non-independent business in town and they were pressured by the town council to make 3 different brick facades and follow the general architectural theme of the street

the building blends well, but the frontage has too much window space like the walgreens. It also actually has a second floor with a tiny postal warehouse and a private medical clinic.

They also included almost 20 parking spots that are never full which is dickery on their part, it literally has 3-6 cars at any given time of the day, most of which are employees desu. The building has been up 5 years and ive never seen the parking lot even 50% full.

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>>1007584
>>1007612
If the street has a 60' ROW then this is how I would have done it.

In a more urban area with high pedestrian volumes, I would get rid of one of the parking spaces and opt for 10' sidewalks.

>>1006506
>massive apartment towers in the park
>wasteful "open space" everywhere
Gas the modernists, architectural war now.

I don't know why this failed form persists. The Chinese and Koreans are the worst offenders of repeating this mistake.

>>1006658
Going to have to disagree with height restrictions, perfect building height is 4-8 stories in my opinion. Anything higher should step back gradually like a lot of earlier skyscrapers such as the Empire State Building does.

I support some separation of uses for things like industrial, utility plants/stations, and prisons. It's needed to an extent.

>>1006814
In terms of parking requirements, minimums should be eliminated and maximums should be put in place. Also owners of vacant urban land should be taxed in a way that discourages them from using their lot for parking and encourages a building instead.

Nothing wrong with underground parking though. Above-ground podium parking make terrible street walls unless they're designed well (rarely).

>>1006873
>Le Club
I think you just found reddit's hideout

Here is a small piece of relatively basic information from a recent local public radio broadcast I thought /n/ might enjoy.

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/fewer-cars-more-bikes-better-cities

Is there any good literature or info on improving walkability in small towns (~10,000 pop)

I live in a small town that does have a commuter rail station to a big metro but is there anything you can advocate for is it doomed to be 100% cars?

>>1007179
>you will never live in a comfy Japanese neighborhood again

Kill me now

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>>1012832
>>1012719
>>1007584
So there's a street that is designed like this in my city and for whatever fucking reason joggers, people in wheelchairs and people in those mobility scooters that go 10km/h think it's socially acceptable for them to be in the bike path.

I saw a young mother pushing a stroller AND walking her dog in the bike lane.

What is wrong with people? It's not like the street doesn't have a sidewalk.

>>1009151
Thats not entirely true. Free parking can lead to the success of say a commercial center. In the Los Angeles area the 3rd st promenade in Santa Monica is pretty reliant on free parking. Without the large free parking lots, it wouldn't be as successful since it does attract a lot of regional visitors. Although they just completed a light rail line to the area.

But i do agree that parking in dense urban areas should be at least managed, if not priced in some way.

MINIMUM parking requirements for any development should be eliminated. They are often to general to be applied to specific development and often results in a lot of wasted space on lots, which can lead to less space for actual buildings and increase prices for something like housing or leased commercial spaces.

Also consider how much space we are losing to giant parking lots that are only full or, lets be honest , partially full for a portion of the day.

Are any of you actually planners, or now how to make those maps?

what are your opinions on form based zoning as a replacement for eucladian zoning?

>>1006341
Chicago doesn't even have the 3-stop yellow line to Skokie (Little Israel)

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>>1012956
Isn't that it?
Though the southern red and green branches are kinda melted together.

>>1007584
Out by O'Hare they've made "bike paths" that are just the bike lane indicator sprayed on the right of a very slightly (1, 2 feet) wider lane.

>>1008531
I don't care if they contribute to "muh street life", these buildings are a beauty.

>>1011110
They need to be flattened and rebuilt.

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>>1013006
Welcome to Seattle.

>>1009744
>>1009742
That looks really nice. Is that a mod?

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I'm curious to see what you guys think of poundbury which is a modern development meant to resemble a pre-war town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poundbury

>>1013116
>2 people in those streets

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Shoes! I need to sleep! Its 4am!

>>1013116
Based Charles giving it to the post war modernists

Ideally the town would have a trolley line down the high street and frequent buses (every 15 mins) that penetrate into the residential area.

>>1013116
fLove it, only wish he had more money to do more of this kind of thing.

>>1013096
No graphics mods but the vehicles and buildings aren't vanilla.

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>>1012832
Most famous bridge into Downtown Minneapolis

>>1013218
>two bikes get the same space as four pedestrians
I know it's just a graphic, but it says all about how bikes are predators of urban space just like cars.

SUBURBAN LIVING IS DEAD

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Housing_Development_Toolkit%20f.2.pdf

>>1012701
>minimum parking
the bane of my existence
if the cagers MUST have reserved space for their metal monstrosities, at the very least force them to build parking ramps instead of hideous surface lots, and make sure they look architecturally passable rather than a eyesore

>>1013233
Transporting many times the numbers of travelers per hour per square metre. It's walking that should be banned for being inefficient.

>>1005930
>female circumcision is crime
>male circumcision is A OK

>>1013278
>Not taking into account the supporting infrastructure to build the bikes. Factories and materials aren't free you know. You could never call that efficient
>... unless ...

>Genocide, yes that's that answer!

>Once you get ride of people, bikes do have a higher efficiency. So we need to kill everyone and set the bikes free.

>>1013233
>predator of urban space

The pedestrian bridge was converted from a defunct rail bridge. There is more than enough road space in bridges across the Mississippi in the twin cities area.

>>1013282
>phimosis shouldn't be cured

>>1005930
>be canadian
>realize you drink fruit juice every day
damn those Tropicana trains

>>1013282
>>1013290
/n/ is REALLY not the place to have this debate

>>1013218
come on. most city bridges are no-cars. I gave an example of one that had both cars and bikes for a reason

>>1012900
It's 'Murica after all (I'm assuming so because you mentioned mobility scooters). People are not yet used to bike lanes and how to use them properly. All those people need to be on the sidewalk, and signage should be placed that says "bicycles only." But what really makes me mad is cages parked in bike lanes. Now that I can't forgive.

Also there's those idiots that salmon the wrong way on bike lanes, was arguing with one the other day who genuinely thought it was safer to ride against traffic because "you can see the cars coming at you lmao." Other times it's just plain laziness that they can't bother to ride on the other side of the road.

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>>1013307
Fine, this one drops you right outside of downtown.

>>1013116
The problem I think developers who do this is to make sure it doesn't like kitsch or like it belongs in some kind of theme park. Other than that I do agree the modernists need to fuck off.

>>1013429
>like kitsch
look kitsch*

>>1013429
>like it belongs in some kind of theme park
I think a big part of this is the fact that the materials are so new and unweathered. Give it a few decades and you won't be able to tell these buildings from any other historical buildings

>>1013352
Loyalist yank land not America. This bike path has been up for 10 years and I agree that there is a lack of signage.

Do people really park in bike lanes? If I saw someone do that, especially with a nice car I'd key it or puncture the tires tbqh

There's a road that has a painted bike path in one direction and people always salmon up it instead of using the sharrow right of way in the right direction. Fucking casuals

>>1013352
>>1012900
>>1013456
The bane of my existence this summer has been rollerbladers using bike paths or off street trails. The way they move is like three bikes side by side and they refuse to allow you to pass.

>>1011115
They don't bother building up Florida, since it gets partially destroyed in random places every year.

Honestly, people who choose to live where hurricanes regularly hit are stupid and deserve what they get.

>>1013676
You may as well say the same about people who live in the midwest where there are frequently tornadoes, or in areas where earthquakes are common, both of which have little to no warning. A hurricane can at least be tracked days to weeks in advanced.

Unless you're living in a trailer home, in a house that does not have a firm foundation, or is shitty construction, buildings in Florida do survive hurricanes. The biggest concern is actually flooding, and if you don't live in a flood prone area and live in a decently-constructed house, you can live through the storm reasonably. Standard procedure I have for category 3-5 hurricanes: board your windows, trim/clear trees around your house, tie down or bringing all outdoor furniture and items indoors, have a full tank of gas in your car, food, water, and supplies to last up to 3-5 days, and if you can afford it, a generator otherwise use candles.

t. living in Florida since 1999, having stayed home and toughing it out through the many hurricanes that have passed throughout the years, having had no major damage to my house or property.

>>1013719
Those incidents don't happen nearly as often as hurricanes and are spread out over a bigger expanse of land.

ladies and gentlemen

I am considering a campaign to encourage more /int/urban+architecture threads to come here and hopefully post some good stuff.

I only browse here occasionally but really enjoy the content. what would be your thoughts on having a few more international posters? would help to broaden the discussion away from what seems to be essentially discussion of US transport infrastructure and current plans

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>>1013865
>/int/ posters

>>1013770
>bigger expanse of land

Hurricanes hit anywhere from Brownsville, TX to NYC. Any individual city, even a place like Miami, isn't constantly being pounded by hurricanes, you just think so because you don't live there so all the TV coverage blends together into one perceived location.

>>1011110
ski lifts everywhere is the only logical solution

>>1013875
not the other dude but urban+architecture is /int/s only redeeming quality desu

>>1014031
Are you that autistic polish guy who always posts horrible modernist shit?

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>>1013983
Escalators are also acceptable.

>>1014040
nah im a fucking leaf

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>>1013977

>>1013875
>>1013865
there are some trainlads in /brit/ but i know that at least of them posts here too.

not worth it to advertise this place on a fast board tnh

Time for a new thread? I have nothing good to start it with

>>1014101
I've got it.

But we'll wait until bump or image limit.

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>>1009160
> I really hate how quick and cheap new "mixed use" development is popping up in cities that we will regret 20 years down the road.

You can hate it, but relaxing the regulations for housing materials can be instrumental in adding to housing stock quickly and keeping rents affordable. Seattle decided in the 80's and 90's to allow mid-rise developments with rebar foundations/first stories and wood-framed upper stories. The result was a plethora of bland, unoriginal buildings, but the housing stock was able to be increased rapidly, and the new buildings are offered across the income spectrum. The end effect is that the housing stock is keeping up rather well with explosive growth in the city, and the rent isn't exploding like in SF.
New York's taxes and housing restrictions, by contrast, have made it only feasible for developers to build luxury housing, which forces the city to raise taxes to fund rent control, which continues the death spiral.

Often urban planning is a lesson on what not to control.

>>1014346
Doesn't SF have a history of big ass earthquakes?

I'm not sure about seattle, but it's on the ring of fire too.

>>1014346
every building doesn't need to be a piece of art

I'd gladly suffer some buildings looking a bit bland if it meant more affordable rents

>>1014346
Isn't Seattle having some sort of severe affordability crisis? What with NIMBYs resisting efforts to upzone in their single family zones and all

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>>1014046
>acceptable
Short-medium distances yes.
Long tunnel/footbridge without moving walkways is annoying.
Or a simple elevator just to get up there.

>>1014346
Denver is in the middle of an explosive growth period and they're building hundreds of apartment buildings like that. I guess they provide spaces to live but I consider them fire traps.

>>1014046
>Phukets Thai Restaurant

wewlad

also, with /o/ incoming I wonder how these threads will now go. My guess is south.

>>1014760
Maybe we'll have a counter weight to muh ban all cars meme. I feel the most likely downfall will be it simply gets buried

>>1014760
Not looking forward to sharing the board with those welfare queens. Only thing worse than vehicular welfare is welfare for breeders.

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How would you build the Cape to Cairo?

>>1013983
>>1014046
>>1014587
There's a city in Colombia that does just this, enclosed gondolas/ski lifts since the terrain is too hilly for subways or BRT to be practical. I think that same Colombian city also has outdoor covered escalators like in the pic, for the short and medium trips between gondola stations. I can't remember if it was Curitiba, Medellin, or another city that escapes my memory.

>>1014102
We're past bump limit

>>1015019
>>1015019
>>1015019
new

>>1014784
I have this suspicion that Somalia and Libya aren't as peaceful as the map makes them look.

Maybe if you set up ferries. The Somali pirates are at least under control these days.

>>1014784
Wasn't it like 75% complete already?

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>>1009160

As with virtually almost any style of design, there is poor and quality design. Quality doesn't mean you'll necessarily like it, but more so the developer took a few extra steps to add some features to the building. This is a development about to go up in my city which I'm relatively pleased with, and differs from the rest of the apartments trying to break away from sterile, static surfaces and go the extra mile by making it's street wall curved.

As others said, these developments do allow for cheaper housing, as much as I'd like to see some varying architecture.

>>1006376
Montreal is in the picture, look at the last image in the row above Toronto and Vancouver.

>>1017178
next to last*